🆘WoAD and DigiPi 🆘

[John DeMan]

Problem: unable to use WoAD via DigiPi 2.2 beta7 more than once after fresh install.

Setup: Pi Zero 2 W, AIOC to UVK5 via cable from AIOC with ferrites on both ends.  Using Android phone with WoAD.  Samsung 20 FE.

History: read about disconnecting USB from Pi and restarting AX.25 waiting at least 8 seconds and it has no affect.  I have restarted phone, restarted Pi, restarted radio in various orders to try to get it to work.  It continues to send SAMB requests with no responses.  I don't have a log file for the first run on fresh install.

I am able to use APRS Droid through the same setup every time.  

Some typical log files from packet and WoAD attached.  Also one showing my audio levels are spot on.  50 in the laptop screenshot.  When it works first time the audio is typically between 35 and 55 with some outliers in the high 20s. RF and audio are not the problem in my opinion.  

Is there something else I can be doing to ensure success?  An order of operations with bootup  of  Pi, phone, radio?

I love to tinker and troubleshoot but I'm starting to get a little Gene Wilder after locking himself in the room with the Frankenstein.  "No matter what you hear in there, do NOT open the door!". Door closes....."Open the door.  For the love of God open the door!"

I'm feeling Abby somethin or other....Abnormal. 🤪🥴

Help me out DigiPi community or Craiger! 👍👍👍

Love the work you do.  

[John DeMan]

Additional challenges. 

Trying to use APRS Webchat.  I can send beacons but I am not able to receive responses from the simple REPEAT or WXBOT.  

I tried another radio Mini 5 as well as UVK5.  Tried multiple Android devices.  

[John DeMan]

Squelch 1

[Gwen Patton]

Have you tried using Pat in the DigiPi, instead of WoAD? I think you're missing the point of DigiPi. Whatever screen you employ by way of a web browser, that device doesn't supply the processing. If you want to use an android device, all you should need on it is a VNC client (free level should be fine) and perhaps a Bluetooth keyboard. 

The whole point of DigiPi is that the Pi with the DigiPi distro on it has all it needs in terms of software and processing. But it's a headless or "pinheaded" system. All you need to apply is a display, and an input device. If you use an android tablet, you operate everything by connecting your tablet to the DigiPi through the Web browser via VNC.

I use my main PC and its browser. I have VNC on it, so when the browser connects to the DigiPi over the local network, I don't have to use a Winlink client on my PC, I just access the apps already in the DigiPi. The ax.25 networking is there, Pat Winlink is there, APRS is there. You shouldn't NEED WoAD on you Android device, and trying to use it through the DigiPi as though it were a TNC is probably where you're running into issues. 

Another issue may be the HT you're using. Your typical UX-5r style Baofeng will have a handicap, a terrible receive side. I tried a few different Baofeng HT's, and found two things: 1) unless you're right on top of an igate or Winlink node, you might not be able to hear it well enough, and 2) If you want to use an HT at all, your antenna matters. 

I tried a Quansheng K6 HT, and had to finally struggle to get my late wife's 2m antenna cable over to my radios and use that. Along with some AI guidance on seeing the audio levels correctly, I had to use the node closest to me, not the one I wanted to reach. If I'd used a 2m mobile instead of an HT, I should have had a wider choice, but I wanted to use the HT, si or had to be close.  But I finally got APRS to work properly, and Winlink, using the networking and Pat app in the DigiPi.

I have two DigiPis set up, one for HF, one for VHF. The HF Pi connects to my KX3 via a DigiRig Mobile. The VHF connects to my Quansheng K6 via an AIOC, and uses a good 2m antenna up high enough to get a good signal out of the bowl valley in, to a close enough node. 

If I want to run, say, FT8, I can either use the DigiPi I have set up for HF, connected to a DigiRig interface (takes the place of the AIOC), or I can just hook my Android phone to the DigiRig Mobile with a USB-C cable and use qFT8 on the phone. (It also does FT4, FT2, JS8CALL, and I think something else, the author keeps adding features. I can't keep up.) If I wanted, I could use my wife's Icom IC-705, and just run a USB-C cable from my phone, but I'd have to build or buy a control cable for my KX3's amp.

I think the issue is that you're mixing metaphors. If you have a DigiPi and an AIOC, you don't need WoAD, and it might in fact be the source of your difficulties. 

But I'm a relative beginner with these modes myself, and I admit I don't know everything about the DigiPi yet, as Craig also is adding features, and I can't keep up! So if someone else has a better idea, I will bow to greater knowledge and expertise. 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

73,

Gwen, NG3P

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[John DeMan]

Great post and advice.  I get the result via Patmail and should have stayed that.  After first session of new install it works then 2nd attempt it does not.  

I'm trying APRS We chat now and having the same challenges.  ChatGPT is telling me that my DigiPi is not sending over RF.  I only see ig>tx and OL in my packet log.  

So in this use case I am using only the DigiPi, not WoAD, and can't seem to get it working.  

I used The APRS TNC/igate at first with no packet activity and switched to APRD Digipeater and it appears to be showing me Internet related traffic.  Still does not seem to send RF.  

I'm new here too so thanks for trying to educate me.  

KE2CNN

[John DeMan]

This is the last entry from my ChatGPT session.  Hope it helps someone to help me.  

John

KE2CNN

[Chris]

""I tried a Quansheng K6 HT, and had to finally struggle to get my late wife's 2m antenna cable over to my radios and use that. Along with some AI guidance on seeing the audio levels correctly, I had to use the node closest to me, not the one I wanted to reach. If I'd used a 2m mobile instead of an HT, I should have had a wider choice, but I wanted to use the HT, si or had to be close. But I finally got APRS to work properly, and Winlink, using the networking and Pat app in the DigiPi.""

THIS needs to be much better addressed in the digital community, and at the very least in the Digipi community.

 I have been working on an infrastructure project for a few years involving a Digipi as the CNS, and while it started as a simple we will work with a a cheap HT such as a Baofeng or Quansheng, I discovered through some rather extensive testing this was not going to work, EVER, well not as an HT anyway in a portable config. if I want to add all the external filtering and make it suitable for the job, yep, thats a possibility but defeated the point of paying the $35 for a cheap radio for the project. 
 As many of you are realizing if you want something that is honestly capable of the task and are going to be in a situation that depends on reaching out to a distant machine, you are going to be investing in a quality radio, even an older used radio of 20 yrs is still far better than any of the Baofengs or Quanshengs. I did put a Kenwood D7a against the Baofeng UV5, and the Quansheng UVK5, and while the D7A is still limited in its abilities compared to a modern rig, it has a real TNC, and even if not, it has real filtering making it a much better choice overall. even my Yaesu VX7 was a better contender against the $35 radios.
 The point guys, take a look at your old radios sitting around. For you newer hams, dont be afraid to look at some of these older radios sitting around at a flea market as well. Most of them will only need a new battery. ( do not buy from the jungle market, there are battery stores for a reason)

Sincerely,

 Mr. Chris A. Robinson 

 KF6NFW / WQOQ661

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[John DeMan]

So I updated to a fresh install of 2.2-1.  Started APRS/TNC Digipeater and APRS WebChat and have the same experience.  I can send beacons and see internet traffic in the packet log but no RF from my web chat is being sent.  

[Craig]

I can only confirm your observation from that packet log.

[0L] is a transmission.

[ig>tx] is a suggestion from the internet for your station to digipeat a
packet (webchat ignores it)

and you don't have any packets with [audio level] in them, so you're not
receiving anything in that example



do you have a spare radio that would allow you to "listen" to
transmitted packets?

[Craig]

lots of good comments here.

I do squelch zero on my rigs, why not right?

You're not receiving

Gwen is right about the UV5R, deaf.  the baofeng mini however has front
end filtering and receives okay in my experience.

Do you "hear" packets in your area on 144.39?

You're transmissions are making it to the APRS IS database,

    https://aprs.fi/?c=message&call=KE2CNN

REPEAT tries to reply. 

   https://aprs.fi/?c=message&call=KE2CNN

This is your last beacon path on RF,

[John DeMan]

The strange thing is that I have been able to receive and transmit in the past.  I did a win link Wednesday check-in and got a response from the same digipeater WB2ZII.  So I know I receive "when it's working right".  I also have zero problems using APRS Droid with this setup. 

I'll keep trying.  I'm going to use DigiPi hotspot as another thing to try.  Is there anything that would stop me from receiving?  I have tried the Baofeng Mini 5 as well with the same results.  

I'm also going to the top of a mountain on a hike to get the best possible RX.  

Thanks for all the suggestions and investigation!

KE2CNN

John

[Felipe Guilfuchi Ramos]

I have been reading your posts and the comments that follow and I want to add in the discussion and input my experience.

I was trying to get my digipi to work with several of my portable and mobile radios. Only had luck with a Wouxun KG-Q322.My TYT md9600 mobile and my Baofeng UV-17 Pro Max simply would not connect.

It worked but....not very well. Lots of retries.

Luckily I have a packet RMS station at home. I was trying to connect to it. My radios are literally several FEET from the station.

I am a retired radio technician and worked with trunking systems for many years and got to understand that audio and deviation levels play an important role in transporting digital signals.

I took out my trusty Motorola system analyzer and checked deviation levels of my portable radios AND my RMS station.

To my surprise, the portable radios deviation was under 4 khz. My RMS station was slightly over 5.1 khz.

Not only was it slightly over deviating but the audio was into limiting (the top and bottom of the audio trace was chopped off).

Since only one of my radios worked and not well, I decided to readjust the audio levels of my RMS station to slightly less than 4 khz.

Now ALL my radios work!

This might explain why your radio works with some stations and not with others.

Most modern radios (yes, that includes the Baofengs, TYT, Wouxun etc.) have tighter bandwidth tolerances which could cause them to appear
"deaf" to some Hams. They don't like signals out of their bandwidths.

Of course, power is also an issue. 3-5 watts from a rubber ducky antenna can only go as far.

If the station is 20-40 miles away, your Baofeng, Wouxun, etc. simply might not get there. You need a high gain base antenna or yagui.

But if the station is relatively close, check audio and deviation levels on BOTH sides. It might make a big difference.

[Doug Reed, N0NAS.]

Hi All.

I'll add two cents to the discussion. When I'm asked questions about setting packet deviation levels, I always reply the high tone deviation should be between 3.0 and 3.5KHz with a preferred target of 3.2KHz. The closer you can get to the optimum range, the better it should be. If I only have a real packet or alternating tones to listen to I still try to hit the same 3.0 to 3.5KHz target. You are trying to keep the modulation products within the typical 20KHz bandwidth of the IF stage in your radio. 3.5KHz deviation is hitting that 20KHz BW limit for the high tone. If your deviation is higher you start getting distortion which makes decoding harder. If you want to go down the rabbit hole with the technical details, I'll point you to <https://www.febo.com/packet/layer-one/index.html>. The web site goes back to the early days of packet radio and the index page is already 25 years older then where it mentions 18 years ago.... Nothing has changed in the technical details of packet radio. 

73, Doug Reed, N0NAS. 

[John DeMan]

I love the details and checked out the link you sent.  Glad I did!

When I got my Technician license about 2 years ago I purchased a Kenwood TM V7A from the club to get started.  I was going to try packet data on it but want something newer.  The first radio listed that was tested was this radio.  While I'm sure it's better than either of my HTs, someone who knows way more than me was disappointed.

Just bought a roof mount and will get an Ed Fong DBJ1 on the roof.  Should provide better TX/RX.

Low budget to keep learning and testing.  Thanks for the information.

KE2CNN

John

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