Real World Image Sharpening With Adobe Photoshop, Camera Raw, And Lightroom (2nd Edition) Download P
Lora Ceasor
Essentially, I am applying adjustments to a Raw image, then I want to correct something in Photoshop (add a blur, for example), but when the Tiff comes back to Lr, the same adjustments look completely different between the Raw and the Tiff, even though the base looks the same. I copy all develop settings from one to the other, and it simply doesn't look right.
I've tried saving the metadata to the file before opening it in Ps but this hasn't made a difference (I am also fairly sure Lr is doing this already as I've ticked 'Automatically write changes into XMP'
Real World Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop, Camera Raw, and Lightroom (2nd Edition) download p
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The only other option I see is 'Include Develop settings in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF, PNG, and PSD files' which I have toggled on and off and also see no difference... unsure whether I should have this selected now or how it affects my workflow.
See the answer in the other thread. When you send a file to photoshop, all edits are now baked in and are the new starting point. When you copy over edits from the original raw file your edits are now applied double in effect.
But why do you want to do this anyway? When you send an edited raw file to Photoshop for further editing, the file will open silently in the Camera raw plugin, where the edits from Lightroom are applied, and then open in Photoshop.
The display that you see in LR's Develop mode is predictive. In other words, it shows you what the tiff will look like after the requested processing (requested by slider positioning) has been done to the Raw data and the image rendered. If you want the prediction and the rendation to look the same, don't edit the tiff. Leave the sliders at zero when you have opened the tiff.
Per has the right answer. The "same" adjustment will have a very different meanings, because the anatomy of the two files are radically different. And so the same numerical adjustment will produce very different results. This is normal and expected.
Initially, Lr can't place the right profile for the Tiff, but once I select the make, it tracks it down (albeit, not the same as on Raw, and it behaves slightly differently as well). Is there any way to retain the lens profile information?
>Initially, Lr can't place the right profile for the Tiff, but once I select the make, it tracks it down (albeit, not the same as on Raw, and it behaves slightly differently as well). Is there any way to retain the lens profile information?
Do NOT DO THIS!!!! You do not want to apply lens corrections to a file that already had those corrections applied in the raw stage. The lens corrections get baked into the file. You do not need to do them again.
Yes but this is simply due to the fact that the raw already had settings applied. When you apply a preset to an image it is not something that is additive to what you already did. It changes the sliders, but doesn't add or substract. For example if you applied an exposure compensation of value x to the orginal. Edited it in Photoshop and it comes back, it should look exactly like the edited raw file but now the sliders will all be at zero. If your preset now sets the slider to a different exposure compensation, say y. It will change both to that value. In effect what happens is that in the raw file the final exposure compensation is y, but in the file that went through photoshop in between, the final exposure compensation is x+y because x was baked into the photoshop file already in its actual pixel values.
The right workflow for involving Photoshop is to do as many edits in Lightroom as you can. Make the image look like what you want entirely. Only then bring it into Photoshop as now you are baking all edits into the image data. All the edits you did before are no longer changeable. They are completely baked into the final file. This is inherent to a raw workflow.
This probably isn't going to answer your question or come anywhere close to helping solve your dilemma. And others might not agree with my point of view. But when I'm working with raw images I try to complete all of my work using Lightroom only. Lightroom Classic seems to have a relatively powerful set of tools that usually can accomplish what I want. I only turn to Photoshop as a last resort to accomplish tasks that are difficult or impossible to perform. And I don't expect the image returned from Photoshop to "match" anything I have done in Lightroom alone.
I also came across the same issue as carlalomonaco. In this case working with CR2 raw files. Regarding the workflow suggested by JimHess and Jai_vdL >> it sounds nice to do all the edits in Lr before going to Ps, but to me one of the main benefits of Lr is that one can further alter the edits in a non-lossy manner. Sometimes I change my creative mind about some of the Lr edits, to color and contrast for example. But once u take the file into Ps, there would then be no going back, because the Lr adjustments would be baked in. I might want to do some corrections to the underlying pixels of my raw image using Ps tools (such as Clone Stamp @ 50% opacity, for example), without being committed to any Lr adjustments made up to this point. Why can't Ps allow me to save my pixel changes into the same original CR2 raw format, so that I could continue to tweak my creative in Lr without having my hands tied? I mean, these are all digital files, without compression. Hopefully I'm making sense here...
Photoshop, by itself without Camera Raw, cannot edit raw images. When Lightroom sends an image to Photoshop Camera Raw is used to convert it to an RGB image and is no longer raw. If you want to be able to return and edit the raw data from Photoshop then you need to choose the option in the Lightroom to open the image as a smart object. Then, from Photoshop, it is possible to revert to Camera Raw and modify the raw data. But if you simply open the image through the "normal" process then you no longer have any access to the raw image data. The movement of the data from Lightroom to Photoshop converted it "from" raw to pixel-based data, and that cannot be reversed. If you choose the option to open the image as a smart object then you need to complete all of your editing in Photoshop before you save that image because once it is saved from Photoshop you won't be able to jump back into Camera Raw and have access to that raw data anymore because it won't be available.
If you choose to open the image as a smart object then you access Camera Raw by double-clicking the object in the layers panel in Photoshop. Don't try to do it by using the Camera Raw filter because it isn't the same thing and won't give you the same effect.
Thank you for the additional explanations, very helpful. I guess the optimal workflow for me is to first convert from Raw to RGB before starting any creative adjustments in Lr. That way I can jump between editing the pixels in Ps and making ongoing Lr adjustments as needed. I'm not really married to working with the Raw file per se.
You can do that if you are comfortable with that workflow. I see some drawbacks, however. You lose the capability of switching profiles, and I find that the latitude of the raw file is a little more forgiving. But the choice is yours and you know your workflow better than I do.
" I might want to do some corrections to the underlying pixels of my raw image using Ps tools (such as Clone Stamp @ 50% opacity, for example), without being committed to any Lr adjustments made up to this point."
As andrewklug mentions you can do this without committing your LR settings by creating an Edit in PS TIFF before you do any editing inside LR. Cloning and many other PS operations can be performed without other adjustments applied such as WB and Toning. Make sure the raw file has no edits applied by clicking on the Reset button (CTRL + SHFT + R). Then choose the camera profile you want to use for the final image. It must be committed as JimHess mentions. Do an Edit in PS, apply the clone stamp edits, and then save the PS TIFF. You can now apply your LR WB Toning and other edits to the TIFF file non-destructively. It is a very close copy of the raw file if your External Editing Preferences are set to TIFF file format, ProPhoto RGB, and 16 bit depth.
The only caveat here is if the raw file is over or under exposed and has highlight or shadow clipping. For these image files you'll get better results if you first apply the Exposure, Highlights and Shadows controls to reduce the clipping. With exception of the camera profile these "committed" LR settings should not affect you ability to apply "creative" toning to the Edit in PS TIFF file.
One thing that is extremely important to realize in a workflow like this is that you will get locked in with your choice of camera profile and white balance in addition to the exposure choices. Also, the use of the shadow, highlight, whites, and blacks sliders are less effective when operating on a rendered file instead of raw. This is why using "open as smart object" might be the way to go in this case, so that you can go back to these basic camera raw settings inside Photoshop (but not in Lightroom). You can than use adjustment layers and other layers with cloning stuff etc. in Photoshop non-destructively.
As soon as you mix workflows, something gets baked in and irreversible. This is why staying inside Lightroom as long as you can is usually the correct choice for final image quality and for being able to go back on your choices. Alternatively, you work just in Photoshop using the smart objects route and not touch the controls in Lightroom on images that have gone this route.
Thanks to all 3 of you for these additional insights. I'm learning a lot here about the essence of raw images, which aren't simply a different format of color image, and hence any treatment of them as such necessarily involves conversion thru rendering and hence a certain degree of one-way committment, at least to the camera profile (ex "Adobe Standard"... is that what you mean by camera profile?). I'd be grateful if you could point me in the direction of some additional reading on the Smart Oject route. As best I can tell, I can open the Raw as a Smart Object either A/ from the External Edit menu in Lr, or B/ by opening in Ps directly from Finder. By doing A/, I seem to automatically get a TIFF file with the Lr adjustments applied to the Raw file. By doing B/, I get the Camera Raw interface, and I can select "Reset to Default" (which appears to reset all the adjustments to "as Shot" EXCEPT cropping, which I have reset separately) followed by selecting "Open as Object" (presumably, a Smart Object?). In both cases, I get a RGB file that at the end I am asked to save into a folder on my system, but not sure how this is any different than just converting to an RBG Tiff as per my previous reply to JimHess. I guess I don't really understand what a Smart Object is, and its relationship with respect to my orginal Raw file. Thanks in advance for pointing me in the direction of any helpful resources to clarify...
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