What’s it all About?

[Jeffrey Angelson]

Seeing What’s Already There

Yesterday’s meeting stayed with me.

We spent most of our time debating whether non-duality has anything to offer. Someone said there is absolutely nothing to gain. I understand that—if we’re talking about concepts and ontology, perhaps that’s true. We can accumulate a great deal of understanding and still find ourselves essentially unchanged.

But I kept wondering if we’re asking the wrong question.

Not, “Is non-duality true?” but, “How does it become lived?”

What does this actually look like on an ordinary Tuesday—when you’re tired, when someone you love disappoints you, or when anxiety shows up again at 3 a.m.? That’s where I think the real inquiry begins. Not in the ideas themselves, but in the texture of everyday life.

I also find it fascinating that many discoveries in modern science are beginning to challenge long-held assumptions about a separate self, perception, and the nature of reality. While science and contemplative traditions approach these questions very differently, they often seem to be pointing toward a reality that is far more interconnected and mysterious than our everyday assumptions suggest.

Perhaps that’s why discussions can become exhausting. We’re very good at discussing the map. What I find myself hungry for is more conversation about what it’s like to actually walk the territory.

Has this understanding changed anything for you—not in theory, but in the way you meet fear, conflict, loss, relationships, or simple everyday moments? If so, how? And if not, why do you think that is?

That feels like a conversation worth having.

—Jeff

[inca...@gmail.com]

Jeff,

What you wrote is all how THiS is. 

How ordinary is.

Warmly, 

Sunhee 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 26, 2026, at 6:47 AM, Jeffrey Angelson <jeff.a...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Jeffrey Angelson]

Sunhee,

Yes, I completely agree. The mountain is the mountain. The ordinary is simply the ordinary.

What has changed here isn’t the mountain, but the seeing. As thinking quiets and the sense of separateness softens, there seems to be less standing between life and the direct experiencing of it.

The ordinary becomes extraordinary—not because anything has changed, but because it is finally being seen more clearly.

Perhaps it has always been this way. Many of us spend our lives asleep to the wonder that is quietly present in every ordinary moment.

Warmly,

Jeff 

Jeff Angelson

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[Sheri R]

Jeff and All, 

Jeff, I really appreciate your question: "Has this understanding changed anything for you—not in theory, but in the way you meet fear, conflict, loss, relationships, or simple everyday moments? If so, how? And if not, why do you think that is?"

I've said this before - it's changed everything. 

How? That's a little trickier to answer because the answer sounds self contradictory. 

The 'concepts' of everything and nothing, reach deeper, or, are 'truer', ...... they feel more alive....which means 'I' feel them at a deeper level. 

At the same time, there's this unconditional 'acceptance' (not from me....just what is here) for what is arising. It's definitely a type of 'compassion' (as Paul often describes it). 

How this plays out is that there is more boldness to act outside social norms and enter into difficult situations. Spontaneity and Presence seem more intimately interfaced, which allows a subtly different engagement of life. It feels less rehearsed, or learned/habituated, less thought about, less rule abiding and significantly more spontaneous.....like being on an improv stage. 

I can totally see myself exploding in a situation and becoming violent while at the same time becoming eerily calm and laser focused (maybe even hilarious and unhinged). I can see it all.....joy, anger, laughter, sadness.....

So, that is an extremely shortened version. What about you? How has it changed for you? Or has it? 

Sheri 

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--

Sheri Rink Dip.PT, Acup., RYT

[andyw...@aol.com]

Sheri, Jeff, All,

Sheri - what you say here resonates for me, and as usual, 

what I so appreciate in your communication is your Clarity.

I particularly appreciate your phrase, "acceptance...for what is arising."

As seeing has changed, there is definitely a greater acceptance / peace

for what arises - be it thought or emotion - neither good or bad, right or wrong,

it simply Is. Within that peace what seems to come is a purer spontaneity /

unconditioned action, or so it seems, one often based in love and compassion.

At the same time, such seeing has not been a linear evolution, ego continues to

rear its ugly head at times. But moments of sitting in that acceptance is a peaceful wonder !

Peace,

Andy

 

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[Jeffrey Angelson]

Sheri All

Sheri,

Thank you for such a beautiful and honest response. I resonate with your opening statement: it has changed everything for me as well.

I also realize your question deserves more than a single reply. In many ways it is the very reason I find myself in these dialogues, so if it’s okay, I’d like to answer it in parts over time.

The biggest shift has been in what I take myself to be. The sense of self still appears, and it’s necessary to navigate life as a human being. What’s different is that it is no longer the center around which everything revolves. It appears in consciousness along with thoughts, sensations, emotions, and perceptions. Seeing that has changed my life.

Looking back, I can see how much energy was spent trying to maintain, protect, justify, improve, control, and solidify something that was never fixed to begin with. There was a constant feeling that something was wrong, that I needed to become someone, get somewhere, or finally arrive.

What eventually became clear was the utter futility of that project. I was trying to stabilize, defend, and perpetuate a psychological self that was never fixed in the first place. It was like spending a lifetime trying to nail Jell-O to the wall. The effort itself was the suffering.

I wasn’t imprisoned by life. I was imprisoned by an impossible assignment.

Then something very simple, yet profound, became clear. The prison door had never been locked. It had been open all along.

Rumi captured it perfectly:

“Why do you stay in prison when the door is so wide open?”

Zen points to the same truth through the image of the Gateless Gate. There is no barrier except the one we imagine. Freedom wasn’t something I had to attain. I simply began to see that I had never been locked in.

What has followed has been a kind of surrender—not as an act of will, but as the natural consequence of seeing.

Looking back now, it feels as though the ground itself changed. What had once been arid from years of striving and becoming gradually became fertile. Not because I acquired a better philosophy, but because the endless project of fixing and defending a psychological self began to lose its grip. There was finally room for simple seeing. And in that openness, life began to reveal itself in ways I could never have manufactured.

This isn’t to say that fear, sadness, anger, or uncertainty no longer arise. They do. But they are no longer the center of my experience or the measure of what I am. Seeing what is happening has brought a steadiness and peace that I didn’t know was possible.

I’d love to continue this conversation because, for me, this isn’t really about non-duality as an idea. It’s about how seeing changes the way we actually live.

Jeff Angelson

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[Jeffrey Angelson]

Andy 

I’m with you. Thanks 

Jeff Angelson

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Jeff, Sheri, Andy, Sunee and Everyone,

Jeff, your recent question here I thought was very interesting and also practical. Yes, it can seem as if we are beyond something based on having understood something, yet we feel we are still in the same boat. 

It also raises a question: what do we mean by understanding? Is understanding accumulative, or is it something else? And is it "our" understanding, as if we have arrived at it in some way? I don't mean to push back against anything here, it just seems like an interesting question, and it relates (I feel) to what you, Sheri, Andy and Sunee have been sharing here (imho).

When there is understanding, where does it come from, and what is its actual nature? I often bring in the example from my life of wanting to stop smoking. I realized that struggling with or "stopping" (a seeming action on my part) the habit never actually worked, and it was clear I didn't understand what was actually going on in all of it. So the only possibility was to live with the habit, have a cigarette when I wanted, and find out what was going on. 

After several days of this, the nature of habit was making itself evident. As Bohm was saying, there was a sense of necessity in having a cigarette, but it was not truly necessary. As I sat smoking a cigarette, something came through the top of my head and right through my body, and suddenly it was all clear: I didn't really want to smoke anymore! That was it, no looking back etc, and when the urge for a cigarette might arise it was like a phantom, nothing in it.

So to me, this reflects understanding in several ways. One, understanding is its own action, and is really one and the same as awareness. I have nothing to do with its action, even while I am fully and intimately involved since this is my life. And thank goodness! If I was some agent of this understanding, how could anything I am totally unaware of ever make itself apparent???!!!  (and fall away on its own.....). 

And two, understanding and "change" was already present at the very beginning of all this. From my actual living, it was clear that trying to "stop" smoking was useless. Which naturally led to the understanding that there was no understanding of what was going on (and understanding was important in itself). Now everything was totally different (as Sheri, you and others are pointing out). Not knowing or not understanding what was going on was its own openness to what was happening, and struggling etc with smoking had already come to an end without intention. None of this involves some movement of logic, yet is never illogical. 

But what is so interesting is that none of this can ever be turned into an "approach" to bring about a result! Understanding arises out of our very living circumstances, right? It's in the very nitty gritty of our lives, not in some other realm or circumstance we might conjure up. Just right here. But we tend to want to move beyond where we are.

When something is important enough to us to truly understand, especially about ourselves, then there may already be understanding acting. The ending (falling away) is embedded in this seeming beginning. But it seems clear that there is "something" going on beyond whatever we might experience or define. A larger movement of living without end or beginning of which we are unavoidably a part. It all seems to boil down to action, living's nature. 

Wow, way over the top here. Sorry! No worries if you never reach this last sentence. -Dan 

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[Janet Asiain]

Dan, Jeff, Everyone

What Dan says about things just falling away under scrutiny (his cigarette habit) is so clearly valid --- and I think at the end of that last post he was also implying, maybe unconsciously, that things can just fall away by themselves, unscrutinized. 

My experience is that just noticing really does do "the work", at least after "noticing" becomes a sort of way of life. (Channeling K here, I know) Anyway, many fears and anxieties (once faced) seem to have just fallen away, leaving less "me." Sometimes that feels like a void, sometimes like something rich without a cause. Mostly it's just OK!

On the other hand, maybe I'm just fading away (with age)! Also OK ---

I can't attribute any of whatever it is to "understanding" (accumulated or not). More to curiosity, and being in the middle of the stream throughout my long life, never able to clamber out upon the riverbank to get a better view. Very inefficient, but that's just the way this ("my") version of the human experience works.

🩷🪷🩷🪷🩷

Janet A

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[Jeffrey Angelson]

Dan All

Dan,

Your post brought me back to the question that started this thread.

Why do the very same non-dual pointers completely transform some lives while leaving others essentially unchanged?

What struck me in your smoking story wasn’t simply the understanding that came. It was the openness that preceded it. There was a willingness to admit, “I don’t understand what’s happening.” The struggle to fix, control, or overcome the habit had come to an end.

That feels important.

Maybe this is why the same words can be life-changing for one person and remain concepts for another. It’s not simply that one has accumulated more knowledge. Perhaps there has been a willingness to see what is true and to accept it completely, even when it isn’t what we hoped to find.

The old Zen story of the overflowing teacup comes to mind. As long as the cup is full, there is no room for anything new. “I don’t know” isn’t a deficiency. It may be the fertile ground where understanding blossoms.

I wonder if willingness, openness, and even surrender create that fertile ground. Not because they cause understanding, but because they no longer stand in its way. The seed isn’t forced to grow. The conditions simply allow it to take root.

This may be what I feel is often missing from our non-dual conversations. We rightly say that everything is THIS. But if everything is THIS, then the psychological movement is THIS too. The seeking, the resistance, the surrender, the openness, the confusion, the insight—they are all LIFE. Why wouldn’t we inquire into them just as deeply?

Jeff Angelson

On Sun, Jun 28, 2026 at 1:05 PM Dan Kilpatrick <kilp...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Jeff, All,

Jeff, just briefly since it is late for me and I may be busy tomorrow morning. What you shared brings this up:

When what is going on in our lives is actually important to us, that makes all the difference, it seems to me. Openness is already operating naturally, without intention. Wanting things to be a certain way is no longer getting in the way of anything. It has lost its meaning..... 

It is to be truly human, whatever its context might be. It does not depend on any particular framework. The framework is just a context for our actual living, as we really are, it's just the circumstances. The rest of it doesn't really matter anymore. Sort of like being mature or honest with ourselves. It feels awake without 'being awake' being some sort of goal or preferred situation. All that has already left the room.....

This is how it is hitting me right now. -Dan

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[JIM PETERSON]

Dan and All,

 

Dan, I keep coming back to this last post of yours.  You have said what I've been feeling but couldn't find the words to articulate it.  I'm very grateful for this.  

 

Jim

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Jim, All,

Jim, thanks, with gratitude in return. Good to know it resonates. It occurs to me right now that all this can never be turned into "something", which the mind can hold onto. Openness means being open to not being open, to not being honest, and so on. How can that ever be turned into something the mind knows....

Thanks again Jim. -Dan

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[Jeffrey Angelson]

Dan  Jim All 

Dan,

This resonates with me. One thing I find myself wanting to explore is how to connect non-duality with lived experience in a way that people can investigate for themselves rather than simply accept as an idea.

It seems we operate much of the time on autopilot, responding from conditioning. That’s not inherently a problem. It’s necessary and often very useful—until it isn’t.

Transformation seems to begin when we actually see what is happening.

A thought arises. There is tension in the body, tightness in the temples, constriction in the chest. The breath becomes shallow. Ordinarily, another thought immediately appears to explain, judge, resist, or fix what is being experienced.

But perhaps nothing needs to be done.

Just notice.

Sometimes it’s as though the body is simply asking to be recognized. “Look at me.”

The paradox, at least in my experience, is that not doing is what changes everything. By remaining with the experience instead of immediately reacting to it, something begins to shift on its own. The old conditioned pattern gradually loses its grip—not because we fought it, but because we finally saw it clearly.

So in that sense, I agree completely. I’m simply interested in exploring how this becomes lived, because I think that’s where the wonder lies. Not in attaining a special state, but in discovering that we can simply be with fear, tension, or uncertainty without immediately becoming them.

For me, that’s where openness ceases to be an idea and becomes transformative. That’s where the ordinary becomes extraordinary.

Jeff Angelson

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[JIM PETERSON]

Dan and All,

 

Again, well said Dan, from my perspective.  If there is such a "thing" as waking up, it seems to me that what we are waking up to—what is being revealed may be a better way to say it—is the psychological movement of turning life (aka "this") into "something to hold onto."  Even that understanding can become something to hold onto.  Even openness.  Amazing.  

 

Jim

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Jim, right on. All of this can be awoke to. Something as nothing.

-Dan

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[Jeffrey Angelson]

Dan Jim All

What Accounts for the Difference?

For the sake of inquiry, let’s assume something many of us seem to agree on:

There is only THIS. Nothing needs to be added. What we’re looking for has never been absent.

If that’s so, I’m curious about a different question.

Why do these teachings profoundly transform some people’s lives while others see little value in them or remain largely unchanged?

Jeff Angelson

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[Rani Madhavapeddi]

My 2 cents:

Nothing changes the only thing that changes is seeing ‘ I am not the doer’

If we SEE that all else is same. 

Love peace and joy! 

Rani Madhavapeddi Patel

On Jun 29, 2026, at 10:35 AM, Jeffrey Angelson <jeff.a...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Jeff, All,

Jeff, all I seem able to share is what I said before. The difference seems to lie in taking our lives (but not ourselves) seriously, whatever the context might be. This can't be manufactured as an approach to some end. Taking our lives seriously is either a fact, or it is not. 

Yet, it being abundantly clear that I am not taking this life seriously (in whatever ways this might occur), the fact of it, is to take my life seriously. The truth of the matter is already acting. But again, there is no manufacturing this or approach to the truth, whatever the truth might be. It really means looking for ourselves, directly, which happens without intention to make this happen.

This is what occurs to me, at least what seems to have meaning here, however limited it might be (which I'm sure it is).  -Dan

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Sorry, just a PS: the immediacy of all this, it seems to me, does not depend on any particular teachings or context/situation. This is the strangest part: it is wholly independent (unconditional) of any circumstance, yet it is wholly embedded in those very same circumstances (whatever they are)! This is because living is alive in all circumstances no matter what they are. Maybe we tend to confuse the specific circumstances for the livingness that is suddenly immediate in the truth of ourselves, whatever this might be.....

We may no longer be divided from our circumstances when this happens, without ever being able to attain or reach this because it is wholly unknown to us (the attaining is still divided from its goal). This, to me, is the action of the truth, all at once, without any steps or sequence or time involved. The being divided falls away without any intention on our part. This seems to be the action of truth. All there can be is gratitude that is beyond any measure for something that was never attainable.....

Okay, enough,  -Dan

[Paul Rezendes]

Everyone,

Just back from a photo shoot up in Maine. Got to read through everything. You guys have sure been busy. I thought it was a really good thread. Nothing to add from here.

🕊️

Paul

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[Jeffrey Angelson]

Diehards

Perhaps there is no formula or method that explains why one person awakens and another does not.

Yet even seeds need fertile ground.

If the pointers of non-duality are like seeds, what conditions, if any, allow them to take root and come alive?

Jeff Angelson

[Dan Kilpatrick]

Jeff, what if there is a larger moving happening of which we are a part yet can't fully take in, beyond what is revealed to us? Can we know the present moment in its entirety right now, taking in everything everywhere all at once? The fact of my not knowing seems to have something to do with this. It feels awake. Might this already be fertile ground?

Is there anything happening that isn't potential fertile ground, no matter what it is? All of it seems to be now. Is this the fertile ground (and possibly also the seed)? 

Nothing happening seems distant from anything else. I can't trace any specific cause or effect, before or after. I can't even find myself in the midst of it all.

When living came in and revealed itself, it seemed like a sort of event. But as living moves along, it feels clear to me that there is/was much more going on than I can possibly appreciate on my own. It's up to living itself. I can't trace a thing...

Wait, I wonder if we are missing something here. Even when someone doesn't awaken in a given situation, does this mean they've missed out on something? Can we see the larger picture? Is, for example, failing, itself, fertile ground? I can't see how I can possibly know living's larger movement.

 

Your questions are also unavoidably part of this larger flow. Some interesting things may come from them, it seems to me....

-Dan

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[Jeffrey Angelson]

Dan,

Thank you. I want to sit with what you wrote for a while rather than respond right away.

Your question about whether all of life might already be fertile ground—including failure, seeking, and not awakening when we think we should—gave me a lot to reflect on.

Ironically, I have my Spravato treatment tomorrow, and I may take your email in with me as the question I sit with.

I truly appreciate you taking the time to explore this with me.

Jeff

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[Paul Rezendes]

Jeff, Dan, everyone,

Jeff, if everything is being everything all at once, how can we possibly know what the right conditions are? But it seems to me it doesn't hurt to live a healthy lifestyle.

Paul

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[Jeffrey Angelson]

Dan, Paul, Sheri, Jim, Janet, Sunhee, All,

What’s It All About?

I’ve spent months asking why non-duality transforms some people while others simply understand the words.

If THIS is already complete…
If there is nowhere to get to…
If nothing needs to be added…
Then what accounts for the difference?

For a long time, I thought I knew.

I thought conditioning had to unwind. I thought repetitive thought patterns had to be seen through. I thought all of that was preparing the ground.

Today something different became obvious.

The question disappeared.

Looking back, I can’t find the one who was peeling away conditioning.

I can find the conditioning.

I can find thoughts.

I can find relationships changing.

I can find openness growing.

But I can’t find the one who made any of it happen.

For months Paul has pointed to THIS.

Dan has pointed to the same place in his own way.

Even my conversations with Jim caused me to question what I thought I understood.

Today the resistance simply wasn’t there.

Nothing spectacular happened.

The resistance dropped away.

It was as though the curtain was pulled back—and the little man behind the curtain wasn’t there.

The one trying to figure it out…

The one trying to make awakening happen…

That was the trick.

What remained wasn’t an answer.

It was THIS.

Not “just THIS.”

THIS as LIFE.

Immediate.

Always present.

Everything belongs.

Thoughts belong.

Fear belongs.

Joy belongs.

Even the thought, “I am thinking,” belongs.

Thought doesn’t stand outside LIFE directing it.

It arises within the same movement as everything else.

Maybe awakening isn’t something we achieve.

Maybe it is what remains when resistance falls away.

So I’m left with the same question.

Why does that happen for some people and not others?

I don’t know.

But I no longer think anyone makes it happen.

Perhaps the resistance ends…

and what has always been here reveals itself.

Jeff Angelson

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[Janet Asiain]

Diehards

Jeff, I’m appreciating your latest, about awakening not as a wow moment but as what is left when resistance (and, I would add, effort) drops away. 

I’ve been wondering for a while, though, about your persistent question and why it matters to you why some people get it and others don’t. Is it something along Bodhisattva lines about helping all beings achieve enlightenment.

I haven’t asked before because I didn’t want to derail the dialogue! I hope I’m not doing that now. 

Janet A

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[Jeffrey Angelson]

Janet,

Thank you. That’s a thoughtful question.

I don’t think it’s a Bodhisattva impulse in the sense that I feel responsible for awakening everyone. It’s more personal than that.

The question matters because I’ve spent much of my life struggling. When I found these teachings, they gradually transformed the way I live. So naturally I became curious: if what is being pointed to is already here, why does it become a living reality for some people while others seem to hear the same words without much changing?

I’m less interested in the metaphysics than in the lived experience. Not, “How do we make awakening happen?” but “What seems to make us available to what is already here?”

For me, that question has led to exploring things like openness, willingness, surrender, and the ending of resistance—not as methods to achieve something, but as the falling away of what obscures what has always been present.

Whether there is ultimately an answer or not, I find the inquiry worthwhile because it may help people who are sincerely struggling, as I once was.

Jeff Angelson

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[imad]

True humility, and the less there is of the one  seeking can be a good fertilizer. Doing certain practices for the sake of awakening may get one stuck  as there is personal motive that asserts the one, not the One.

Imad

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[Robert Harwood]

Jeff, you asked, in effect, "Does finding the nondual truth change anything?" This character would agree with Sheri and say, "Yes, it changes everything!" How so? Well, perhaps most importantly, it ends the search for understanding, and after someone has searched for understanding for decades, realizing the truth of "what's going on" is a big deal, and it results in a state of internal relaxation. If nothing else, seeking comes to an end. Ahhhhhhh. 

Reality is then seen in an entirely different perspective that one might call "a unity consciousness POV." Secondly, if the realization has gone sufficiently deep, one then feels one with reality rather than being a separate observer of it. In effect. It feels like BEING whatever is happening rather than being a part of what's happening. The past sense of inside/outside vanishes, and there is just THIS manifesting however it manifests. One lives in the present moment without expectations, desires, fears, worries, etc. because whatever happens is accepted, and there is no psychological resistance. It feels as if one IS the flow of life rather than being IN the flow of life, so the past sense of separation is gone. 

How much joy and exhilaration one feels may be related to personality. For someone who is curious about the world and someone who has lots of different interests, each day can feel exciting in the same way that it did when one was a child. Some people who feel one with "what is" may leap out of bed each morning eager to see what will happen next or to pursue various interests that they enjoy. Other people may never have responded to life in that way, and different sages have reported radically-different feelings and attitudes about life. I know one sage who still has both very good days and very bad days whereas from my POV and one or two other sages I know, every day is a good day, and every day is incredibly fascinating! Reality is mysterious and unpredictable, and if one were taxed with creating a reality that would never get boring, this present reality is exactly what one would create.😁

Bob H

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[Jeffrey Angelson]

Bob Diehards

Bob

Thanks for weighing in. I feel aligned with what you say. Like Sherry I also feel the truth of Non Duality has transformed the way I live and continues to do so. 

I was looking for why it happens for some and not others. I like much of what you said especially being the flow instead of in the flow. 

I spent a lot of time and realized there is no formula that opens one to this. 

Seeing that there is no formula ends the search for one. The end of that resistance is itself the opening.

Jeff

Jeff Angelson

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