Why Pointers Fail
16 views
Skip to first unread message
Jason Klav
Oct 11, 2025, 7:50:54 PM (23 hours ago) Oct 11
to diehar...@googlegroups.com
“Why Pointers Fail”
Our first instinct with words is to look at their meaning through the lens of our understanding of those words. So let’s do an experiment real quick. If I say “cat,” you likely conjure up some image of a cat in your mind. Now, if I ask two different people to describe what they conjured, both will have different looking cats in their minds, and 100% of the time, unless it’s my Mama, I’d bet anyone it isn’t the exact cat I’m thinking of.
Now if I say “big cat,” folks will give even more varied responses. One might think lion or tiger, while another just thinks of a fat house cat. Let’s add another pointer toward the cat, “black and white big cat.” Now, are you seeing a snow leopard, or did that bring you back to a fat house cat?
Once again, I’m giving pointer after pointer to try and explain something, yet your mind and understanding of the words are painting you your own picture. No matter how many words and “pointers” I give about this cat, you will never KNOW exactly what I’m talking about until you either see the cat yourself, in a picture or in real life.
That’s what it’s like when we point toward what we’re trying to talk about in all of these groups. People give words as pointers, and your understanding filters them through your own perception of what they’re pointing toward. They have to point, because it’s not something words can fully describe.
Some folks will seem to “point” better than others, but that’s simply someone giving a few more adjectives to describe the cat to you. If I said, “black and white short haired fat house cat with black spots on its nose and black socks on its feet and two rings on its tail,” you’d have a much clearer picture, but ultimately you’re no closer to actually KNOWING it for yourself than if I’d just said “cat.”
So expand that to pointers in spiritual stuff. Pointers aren’t meant to GIVE you the knowing or understanding, they’re simply pointer paths that, if followed inward, can lead you to recognize the actual “cat” hiding right in front of you.
I say this as a pointer to not to get attached to words, good or bad ones, “clear” or what your mind deems “unclear.” It’s all going to fall short of the understanding you’re seeking, mostly because the understanding isn’t a mental thing, it’s that you already ARE what you’re seeking to learn.
You’re already at the finish line. It is just THIS, the NOW moment you are reading these words in, the NOW you’ve always lived in and done everything in. It’s so much simpler and more basic than any words, eloquent or not, can ever express. THIS. NOW. HERE. (Holds up first finger.) THIS! Exactly THIS in every way your mind decides to label it…sunny day, bad day, good day, reading, hating, loving, excited, happy, sad, add infinitum words here…all pointing towards…. (Claps your hands together) THAT!!!
Alright go and be perfect just as you are…
-Jason
Our first instinct with words is to look at their meaning through the lens of our understanding of those words. So let’s do an experiment real quick. If I say “cat,” you likely conjure up some image of a cat in your mind. Now, if I ask two different people to describe what they conjured, both will have different looking cats in their minds, and 100% of the time, unless it’s my Mama, I’d bet anyone it isn’t the exact cat I’m thinking of.
Now if I say “big cat,” folks will give even more varied responses. One might think lion or tiger, while another just thinks of a fat house cat. Let’s add another pointer toward the cat, “black and white big cat.” Now, are you seeing a snow leopard, or did that bring you back to a fat house cat?
Once again, I’m giving pointer after pointer to try and explain something, yet your mind and understanding of the words are painting you your own picture. No matter how many words and “pointers” I give about this cat, you will never KNOW exactly what I’m talking about until you either see the cat yourself, in a picture or in real life.
That’s what it’s like when we point toward what we’re trying to talk about in all of these groups. People give words as pointers, and your understanding filters them through your own perception of what they’re pointing toward. They have to point, because it’s not something words can fully describe.
Some folks will seem to “point” better than others, but that’s simply someone giving a few more adjectives to describe the cat to you. If I said, “black and white short haired fat house cat with black spots on its nose and black socks on its feet and two rings on its tail,” you’d have a much clearer picture, but ultimately you’re no closer to actually KNOWING it for yourself than if I’d just said “cat.”
So expand that to pointers in spiritual stuff. Pointers aren’t meant to GIVE you the knowing or understanding, they’re simply pointer paths that, if followed inward, can lead you to recognize the actual “cat” hiding right in front of you.
I say this as a pointer to not to get attached to words, good or bad ones, “clear” or what your mind deems “unclear.” It’s all going to fall short of the understanding you’re seeking, mostly because the understanding isn’t a mental thing, it’s that you already ARE what you’re seeking to learn.
You’re already at the finish line. It is just THIS, the NOW moment you are reading these words in, the NOW you’ve always lived in and done everything in. It’s so much simpler and more basic than any words, eloquent or not, can ever express. THIS. NOW. HERE. (Holds up first finger.) THIS! Exactly THIS in every way your mind decides to label it…sunny day, bad day, good day, reading, hating, loving, excited, happy, sad, add infinitum words here…all pointing towards…. (Claps your hands together) THAT!!!
Alright go and be perfect just as you are…
-Jason
Rani Madhavapeddi
Oct 11, 2025, 10:58:45 PM (20 hours ago) Oct 11
to diehar...@googlegroups.com, diehar...@googlegroups.com
Jason,
In a way I agree that Be and IS’ing is it 😁.
But all my life is from pointers from the answers I got from sages and saints that I met with or in their silence or their glance. Nature to me is a quiet pointer. All the books I read, meetings attended, people I met whom I liked or disliked, videos seen, audios heard, dialogues I attend, all are pointers that made me probe deeper or explore more and led me to the place I am today. Would I be where we I am without my parents, nature, environment and all that I encountered teaching me opening me up to something? I am because of all that I encountered imbibed and understood.
My 2 cents
Rani Madhavapeddi Patel
> On Oct 11, 2025, at 4:50 PM, Jason Klav <jasonklav1h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> “Why Pointers Fail”
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Diehard Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diehard-grou...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diehard-group/6A01FDE9-2DF6-4C69-B3FD-3F8978326101%40gmail.com.
In a way I agree that Be and IS’ing is it 😁.
But all my life is from pointers from the answers I got from sages and saints that I met with or in their silence or their glance. Nature to me is a quiet pointer. All the books I read, meetings attended, people I met whom I liked or disliked, videos seen, audios heard, dialogues I attend, all are pointers that made me probe deeper or explore more and led me to the place I am today. Would I be where we I am without my parents, nature, environment and all that I encountered teaching me opening me up to something? I am because of all that I encountered imbibed and understood.
My 2 cents
Rani Madhavapeddi Patel
> On Oct 11, 2025, at 4:50 PM, Jason Klav <jasonklav1h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> “Why Pointers Fail”
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Diehard Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diehard-grou...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diehard-group/6A01FDE9-2DF6-4C69-B3FD-3F8978326101%40gmail.com.
Jason Klav
2:05 AM (17 hours ago) 2:05 AM
to diehar...@googlegroups.com
Rani,
But all my life is from pointers from the answers I got from sages and saints that I met with or in their silence or their glance.
I agree. We seemingly gain something from everyone we interact with. I wasn’t saying don’t listen or be impacted by what sages and saints say. I was only pointing towards the fallibility of words and the fact that folks don’t need any word spoke to arrive where they already are. Enjoy the sages! Enjoy the silence. Enjoy it all! Because it’s all a pointer towards what you are.
“Would I be where we I am without my parents, nature, environment and all that I encountered teaching me opening me up to something?”
Of course not. You needed everything you encountered to come to this place you are right now. You even needed every choice by every person in their lives, and every animals choice, and spirits, and Gods, and every atoms and molecule’s…. allllllllll had do exactly what they did since the beginning of the universe in the world of form for you to be “you” right now. It worked out perfectly!!! BUT you would still be THIS even if none of it did that because there is no you, just ALL. All-ness. Haha. I like that. A new pointer to replace the word oneness. 😜 
Nature to me is a quiet pointer.
Couldn’t agree more!! It’s is one of the best pointers I’ve experienced!
-Jason
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diehard-group/7B3A3A77-D043-4573-85EE-D56F0AE8EEAF%40gmail.com.
Robert Harwood
8:13 AM (10 hours ago) 8:13 AM
to diehar...@googlegroups.com
I like the sombrero-wearing avatar!
Yes, every human becomes indoctrinated by the consensus paradigm (CP--reality is composed of separate things being seen by a separate thing called "me") because humans have the power of imagination via the intellect and they want to communicate with each other. We are social animals. Consequently, every child is taught the names of everything they see, and they're conditioned to imagine that there are boundaries that define those things even though there are no actual boundaries. All boundaries are imaginary. First, they distinguish images, and then they distinguish labels for those images, and no one tells them that they're being mesmerized by the words they're learning or that what they see are NOT separate things but a unified and infinite field of being. All they see is THIS, but they imagine that they are seeing millions of different things. The sense of selfhood gradually crystallizes as they think more and more about "me" and what other people think about "me." Breaking free from the illusion of separateness is what the path of non-duality involves. Sages tell people, "You are THIS; I am THIS; everything (every thing) is THIS. Whatever you are doing is THIS. THIS is all there is." But people think, "You must be crazy. I see trees and cars and clouds and other people, and all of those things are separate from one another." Sages reply, "Sorry, everything that you imagine is separate is THIS, but if you don't believe me, see if you can find some actual boundaries. What you are looking at is the real you--THIS, but THIS has to be realized. Stop thinking and look! Look without imagining anything (any thing). Good luck."😀
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diehard-group/57AE2FBF-0D1B-4C23-A65F-71A10C0F9D6E%40gmail.com.
Paul Rezendes
10:55 AM (8 hours ago) 10:55 AM
to Diehards google
Bob,
Thanks for your email. I could really resonate with it. You might want to check out what Jeffrey posted in his email with the subject line: Effortless Abiding. Seems to me it says the same thing.
Paul
On Oct 12, 2025, at 8:13 AM, Robert Harwood <bob...@gmail.com> wrote:
I like the sombrero-wearing avatar!Yes, every human becomes indoctrinated by the consensus paradigm (CP--reality is composed of separate things being seen by a separate thing called "me") because humans have the power of imagination via the intellect and they want to communicate with each other. We are social animals. Consequently, every child is taught the names of everything they see, and they're conditioned to imagine that there are boundaries that define those things even though there are no actual boundaries. All boundaries are imaginary. First, they distinguish images, and then they distinguish labels for those images, and no one tells them that they're being mesmerized by the words they're learning or that what they see are NOT separate things but a unified and infinite field of being. All they see is THIS, but they imagine that they are seeing millions of different things. The sense of selfhood gradually crystallizes as they think more and more about "me" and what other people think about "me." Breaking free from the illusion of separateness is what the path of non-duality involves. Sages tell people, "You are THIS; I am THIS; everything (every thing) is THIS. Whatever you are doing is THIS. THIS is all there is." But people think, "You must be crazy. I see trees and cars and clouds and other people, and all of those things are separate from one another." Sages reply, "Sorry, everything that you imagine is separate is THIS, but if you don't believe me, see if you can find some actual boundaries. What you are looking at is the real you--THIS, but THIS has to be realized. Stop thinking and look! Look without imagining anything (any thing). Good luck."😀
On Sun, Oct 12, 2025 at 1:05 AM Jason Klav <jasonklav1h...@gmail.com> wrote:
Rani,But all my life is from pointers from the answers I got from sages and saints that I met with or in their silence or their glance.I agree. We seemingly gain something from everyone we interact with. I wasn’t saying don’t listen or be impacted by what sages and saints say. I was only pointing towards the fallibility of words and the fact that folks don’t need any word spoke to arrive where they already are. Enjoy the sages! Enjoy the silence. Enjoy it all! Because it’s all a pointer towards what you are.“Would I be where we I am without my parents, nature, environment and all that I encountered teaching me opening me up to something?”
Of course not. You needed everything you encountered to come to this place you are right now. You even needed every choice by every person in their lives, and every animals choice, and spirits, and Gods, and every atoms and molecule’s…. allllllllll had do exactly what they did since the beginning of the universe in the world of form for you to be “you” right now. It worked out perfectly!!! BUT you would still be THIS even if none of it did that because there is no you, just ALL. All-ness. Haha. I like that. A new pointer to replace the word oneness. 😜 <a9cb905c-e772-4fa3-a02b-b0c8034fe467.png>
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diehard-group/CAKsd%2B1_Lt4gokLbOvUO6XLDKnq2P--HNWRFNs2BbBRgmEhjTMw%40mail.gmail.com.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages