something arising

[Dan Kilpatrick]

I'm sharing something of a personal nature because it seems interesting enough to me to do so. As I was starting my morning, there was a simple appreciation for living being just as it is. We all undergo challenges at various times, involving health or in our living circumstances. And it was just coming up how there really is only one possibility in all of it, to fully be these challenges. Even if we want it all to go away, this is also our lives. 

As this was happening, my eyes happened to be looking at some curtains, something seen everyday. Suddenly, the entire pattern was very apparent, in details I really had never fully appreciated before. All the flowers, vines etc were making themselves very clear. These were formed with faded blue lines on an off-white background. And in noticing this, what emerged was how the background was itself the pattern, the petals, the vines, the stamens etc. Empty space was now turned into "something". The blue lines turned the formless background into form, into part of the petals, the vines, the stamens etc. 

Formless as form, without any effort, in its simplicity. Art reflecting living and living being art. Maybe it's everywhere.....

-Dan

[Janet Asiain]

Diehards, Dan

That sounds like an acid trip to me! And it happens to you without the intervention of chemicals! Amazing —

Janet

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[Rene]

Dan and all,

Thanks for sharing this. Including beauty and horrors with an "I" and "without". It's life and that seems as a definitive in these instances. No question. Where is there space for a question there? The tapestry described including the tapestry that's "looking". 

There's a song in Spanish, "Solo se trata de vivir", Translated "It's just about living". The mind might say oh yeah I'm living, but it might just be, living. If that makes sense. 

Rene Salazar

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Rene, thanks.  Makes complete sense to me.

-Dan

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Janet, All, 

It may all be too simple. Just whatever is already showing up for you, me, anyone. It doesn't matter what it is, it is what is here. Living is its own significance whatever it might be, even dying (perhaps), but not philosophically, actually, factually, immediately. Rene said it the best: no space for the mind to come in at all. Like really tasting chocolate (or whatever your favorite) ice cream....  

-Dan

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[Paul Rezendes]

Dan, thanks for sharing that… Beautiful.

Paul

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Everyone,

A question just came up that seems to flow from some of the recent discussion. Are looking and being separate or even distinct, or is this simply how we tend to look at it? Is this way of looking what is actually showing up???  -Dan

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Sorry, I need to clarify the wording here, I sent it out too quickly. 

Are looking and being, separate or even distinct, or is this simply how we tend to look at it? Is this way of looking what is actually showing up?  Are we turning nothing into 2, or even 1???

-Dan

[Rob MacDonald]

Dan,

Thanks for sharing, I appreciate these contributions lately more than anything else because while some of the theoretical discussions and banter here are good fun for the noggin, when I shut off my screen there's just the ordinary ravishing beauty of the silence of the kitchen, the coldness of the floor, the touch of the cat sleeping in the chair next to me, the sensation of the congestion in the sinuses.  I fully resonate because it seems like in these more quiet moments where there's an appreciation of the simplicity of right now, and the mind isn't churning on some work problem or some noise inside the house that gets catastrophized as something that needs to be dealt with, there is a sinking into how awe inspiring it is to be alive.  For whatever reason, if able to rest in that deep gratitude, there does seem to be a perspective shift of sorts.  I suspect these moments are far more conducive to these perspective alterations because they are truly spontaneous... nothing against meditation, but I know it's harder to settle into during meditation because I am intentional about being silent.... setting a timer, moving my chair, counting my breaths... so much closer to 'Zen' during these spontaneous kitchen moments.

I think the latter couple sentences actually fit nicely as an answer to your question.

I will briefly add, I think what I am observing lately as well is how much harder it is to 'rest' in the painful moments of life because our brains are wired to solve discomfort problems.  The body feels hunger pains and we must eat, which can be experienced in its raw form, but my experience is always a creating story around the hunger and the solution.  Or if there is a pain in my chest there is an analysis of heart attack or acid reflux.  

I cannot find any separation in any of this.  Even the story of separation the mind inevitably will tell in a given moment is still just part of this, just like the looking that might appear separation, but seems to just be an aspect of the whole enchilada.

-Rob M.   

 

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Rob M.,

Thanks very much for your reply, it resonated. This part really stood out to me, and really resonated, thanks: Even the story of separation the mind inevitably will tell in a given moment is still just part of this, just like the looking that might appear separation, but seems to just be an aspect of the whole enchilada.

At times I have the sense that because we live as if we are localized form, necessarily, it's as if we are looking at a diamond and seeing its various facets reflecting at different angles (as different observers), giving the impression of the many in the one.

If I can add one more thing, about meditation, just simply this: a number of years ago a cat I was looking after suddenly showed me what meditation is, as it showed up at least. The cat was meditation, fully the cat (Spats!), couldn't be anything other than Spats, wasn't concerned about itself. There was nothing separate moving in Spats. So it might be that we all are, right now, surrounded and permeated by meditation.

So even when we are in deep separation, we are still this meditation, unavoidably. We may simply not be living in alignment with it, in that moment. -Dan

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[JIM PETERSON]

Good stuff Rob and Dan.  Dan, one question: what do you mean by "not living in alignment with it"?  Or more importantly, what might you mean by "living in alignment with it"?  Maybe you answered that in your text at some point, but I'd appreciate a fresh clarification.  Thanks,

 

Jim

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Thanks Jim, great question, an opportunity to explore. At the moment I would say we are living/moving as if we are separate from living/meditation, in the illusion of being separate, in a wordless way. Yet our very moving in this way is never separate. This is why it is the waking up to our moving in this way, and its impossibility, in which we are simultaneously in alignment with meditation/living. This is its action. We were never separate to begin with. And in very practical terms, it is to no longer living as if separate from ourselves, from our challenges and all the rest. But we can only find out by going through this illusion to its end. Where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. And it might show up in very unexpected ways, to us. It seems to me it is always unexpected! No one can define this for us, it's always in the moment, creative.....  -Dan

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[JIM PETERSON]

Thank you Dan.  Beautifully said.  I was struck by this: "But we can only find out by going through this illusion to its end."  Yes.  A certain kind of patience is operating.  Not a putting up with, but a relaxing into.  Maybe a kind of friendliness with whatever is arising and happening.  Well, the words play tricks.  

 

Jim

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[Rene]

Hi Jim and Dan,

This struck me as well because what comes up is who is looking to be aligned and with what per se? It might have gotten answered already. However on this end is there such a thing? Or is this more imagination imagining a state other than the fact? And is the fact static? Can an observer describe it? 

But then who is doing the observation? 

Rene Salazar

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Jim and Rene, and All,

Jim and Rene, I can't fully express how much I appreciate what you both shared here. Rene, your comments raised some questions in me, that might be what you are pointing to:  Is there a "who" that is looking, or is there a looking happening as if there is a "who" that is looking? All of it an experiencing of being a looker? How tremendously fascinating if the case!

Jim, something came up as I stirred in the middle of the night, and I just realized that this touches on in its own way, perhaps, what you shared here:  Maybe a kind of friendliness with whatever is arising and happening.

What came up was whether we ever consider something that to at least some might seem quite radical but seems so simple: to simply live and be as we actually are. In other words, for living to be an opportunity to discover what and how we actually are, in all of its dimensions, down to the very nitty gritty of ourselves. Nothing being discarded or dismissed. It seems to flow from realizing that we actually don't know ourselves, but there is much more in it. Each of us, right now, as we are, is precious, no matter how we are. Nothing is being left out. Tears came as this was arising, because it felt as if the love of the universe was coming in, in this appreciation. No words for this, they're swallowed whole.....  -Dan

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[JIM PETERSON]

Dan and Rene,

 

Thank you Rene and Dan.  

 

Rene: Who is it that's asking "Who is it that's aligning"?  It's like endless reflections in a mirror.  For that reason, that sort of classic question of nondualists has ceased to have much meaning for me these days.  I stress the "for me."  It can still be a powerful pointing, especially if you've never heard it before.  I think Dan's reply to your question is far more insightful and interesting than what I'm saying here.  

 

Dan: What you've said about my comment is again beautiful to me.  You have opened up the implications of "friendliness" in a way that is moving to me, because it resonates so completely with what I was pointing to.  I understand why the tears came.  

 

In friendliness,

 

Jim

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[Rene]

Hi Jim, Dan and all,

On this end there is resistance to the term non-duality since I don't
know what that is. I do see though, how the questioning would be
rejected if there is a looking for an answer. However, the process of
the "goings on" is fascinating to Dan's point. Yes, friendliness is
implied in this fascination for whatever reason as well, curiosity,
Love?

On Sat, Oct 4, 2025 at 8:55 AM 'JIM PETERSON' via Diehard Group

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--
Rene Salazar

[Dan Kilpatrick]

Rene, briefly. Perhaps nonduality refers to nothing, simply the absence of duality. It might not be a thing that can be identified or known. So you may be right on point here.....

Our minds may play tricks on themselves by turning anything unfamiliar into a known. Very interesting to see!

-Dan

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[Rob LO]

Diehards

Wilber called his book "One Taste"

But like Watts 's going to a restaurant and only "eating the menu"

🤦‍♂️🤔👀

☝️

Rob L-O

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Thanks Rob, nice metaphor. And just to follow up briefly to Rene's email, nothing might also be awake, which is not a thing....

-Dan

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Everyone, 

Something was moving this morning that feels like a coalescing or weaving of different strands into its own tapestry. In very practical terms, nondual duality may not be a particular point of view or way to perceive existence. It may refer to being awake to duality moving in us, in how we see and experience ourselves and the world. Duality sees in terms of separate things, of time and distance (psychologically), a movement of thinging (turning what is here into things). Nondual duality may be about awakening to our consciousness moving in this way. Not in the distance or some other moment (which is duality!), but now, in any moment. And how this unfolds, who knows......

So again, nondual/awake is not a thing that can be known, it's nothing. There's just being awake, which is action itself, and which has no continuity in time (awake doesn't exist in time, it is time)....  

-Dan

[Janet Asiain]

Dan, 

You said it! (“Nondual duality may be about awakening to our consciousness moving in this way.”) Very arresting —

Where did this expression (nondual 

duality) originate, does anyone know? Here, on Diehards? Or do various teachers also use it? And do they mean what Dan says? Does anyone know? 

The way I imagine being conscious of the way consciousness moves sounds like multitasking to me. It’s not really simultaneous, we can only switch back and forth incredibly fast. 

That’s said from my low level of being! Even so, might it have any relevance at all? Even to anyone here who’s experiencing what Dan is talking about, not just understanding it?

Janet

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Janet and Everyone,

Janet, to your first question, I couldn't speak to an origin for nondual duality. It arose as an expression in me many years ago while out for a walk. It seemed inescapable that this is what we are, some strange mix that is not a mix. The mind can't hold it....  But it may find expression in many ways, not just one. It seemed to take on another dimension here, which may actually be the same thing, another aspect which the mind can't hold.

I thought what you shared thereafter was quite interesting, and I appreciate it. So awakening to our consciousness could mean the movement of multitasking being apparent, not as an imagined thing but in real time. Realizing something going on, it making itself apparent. Simple (uncomplicated) when looked at in this way. Not sure you could speak about multitasking without having been aware of it, as more than just an idea.

Finally, everything you're saying seems relevant to me. And I can't see how there is anything different about your being. None of this feels incomplete to me.  

-Dan

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[Janet Asiain]

No, Dan, of course there aren’t different levels of being, but there are differences. I never wake up thinking about nondual duality, for example! So, levels of something? Janet

 (nondual duality)

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[Dan Kilpatrick]

Janet, I  guess for me, who can say what might show up for anyone at anytime, and in ways that are unfathomable and not definable by anyone else.

Thanks,  -Dan

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