Sprint ION - Any Remarks?

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OSguy

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Jun 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/22/00
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Sprint ION is soliciting for business in our neighborhood? Anyone used
them?


Joe Cooper

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Jun 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/22/00
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I went to their web page and found that it's just ADSL and is supposedly not
available in DFW yet. Also seems a bit expensive at $160/month, but does
include local, 750 long distance minutes ($.07/minute after 750 minutes),
"extra" phone lines, etc.

OSguy <os...@techie.com> wrote in message
news:395236C3...@techie.com...

OSguy

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Jun 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/22/00
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Joe Cooper wrote:

Reason I asked is because I got a Sprint ION pamphlet mailed to me. What's
funny is that I can't use them since DSL is not available in my neighborhood
and there are no plans for ADSL deployment in the next 6 months according to
GTE......(Gee, no G@^*& TE)


Bob Peterson

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Jun 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/23/00
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OSguy <os...@techie.com> wrote:

You're assuming Sprint will use GTE's equipment. They might,
instead, colocate their own equipment in GTE's switching office, and
lease from GTE only the copper between the office and your location.
You'll only know, for sure, that Sprint ION is unavailable by asking
Sprint. GTE won't know the answer to that question.

Bob
--
Bob Peterson BBS Dialup: 972 403 9406 to 53333 (V.34/X2/V.90)
pete...@mail.zgnews.com BBS Telnet: bbs.zgnews.com Web: www.zgnews.com

StappTexas

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Jun 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/23/00
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Sprint does not install their own DSL equipment in the CO's. Only Rythms,
Northpoint and Covad do. It will be one of those. Anyone and everyone that
sells DSL, sells one of those three services.


"Bob Peterson" <pete...@mail.zgnews.com> wrote in message
news:u1k6lso4saccpfcmq...@4ax.com...

Andrew Fullford

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Jun 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/24/00
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StappTexas wrote:
>
> Sprint does not install their own DSL equipment in the CO's. Only Rythms,
> Northpoint and Covad do. It will be one of those. Anyone and everyone that
> sells DSL, sells one of those three services.

Well, one of those three, or Southwestern Bell, or GTE, or
IP Communications. There are possibly others. When we sell
DSL, it is either SWB or GTE, at least at the moment. But,
alright, there are only a handful of LECs doing DSL in the
D/FW area, and I don't think Sprint is one of them.

Andy
--
Andrew Fullford Email: an...@august.net
August.Net Services, LLC Web: www.august.net

Frank Durda IV

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Jun 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/24/00
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OSguy (os...@techie.com) wrote:
: Reason I asked is because I got a Sprint ION pamphlet mailed to me. What's

: funny is that I can't use them since DSL is not available in my neighborhood
: and there are no plans for ADSL deployment in the next 6 months according to

That's a false assumption. Every CLEC I know installs their own DSLAM in the
central offices of the ILEC (as they say in the biz, the "I" in ILEC is for
"intrenched(sp)"), and so the central offices that one ILEC or CLEC has
equipment in does not mean everybody else is there too.

I personally know of a new CLEC you have certainly never heard of that is
getting ready to roll-out DSL service in Texas and already has DSLAMS in more
SWB COs in North Texas than SWB has for their own DSL loop offering and will
be offering it outside the big metro areas. Smaller towns, get ready!

Glossary and Terms:
ILEC == SWB, GTE, or whomever your default phone company is in your area.
They have around your area since they invented dirt and think they
own the place. Incumbent (like Congress) Local Exchange Carrier.

CLEC == anybody else who can hold two wires together and make sparks or
push levers on a back-hoe, or has enough money to pay someone else
to do it. This includes an ILEC reaching out of their normal
fortified service region.

In Texas, even lower mammals and some invertebrates can apply for and
be granted CLEC status, provided that if they offer voice service,
they can handle SS7 signalling. Subsequently, most are data-only
CLECs... Competing Local Exchange Carrier.

To ILECs, CLECs are the Viking hordes at the gate, to be stopped at
any cost using any means including liberal use of burning oil or
back-hoe. To the consumer, the CLECs microscopic presence in the
ILECs region is the ILECs excuse to ask to be released from regulatory
restraint as the ILEC now only has 99% of the total market,
effectively asking to un-cage the 400LB (but strategically shaven)
gorilla so he can raise prices.

Meanwhile, most CLECs are only slightly more disorganized than your
typical riot, which gives the ILECs more time to deply the burning
oil and back-hoes... The ILECs certainly aren't any smarter than the
CLECs, but they do know how to spray money when defending their turf.

Back-hoe == Originally designed and built as a heavy-duty piece of road
and pipeline construction equipment, they are now mainly used as a
device for locating* fiber optic cables, similar to the divining rod.

Most fiber service "upgrades" occur in the hours after a back-hoe
has "located" them.

DSLAM == Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexor, the gadget (usually
at least one box per LEC in a central office, as they do not share
their toys when they play together). Each set of DSLAMS are located
in each Central Office that grabs your traffic out of an ATM or
FR DS3, OCx or larger pipe and converts it into an above-hearing-range
set of audio tones that can be sent down your phone line to your
ADSL modem.

A filter on the consumers-end prevents the above-hearing-range tones
from reaching answering machines, fax machines and other devices that
can hear them. You probably can't. Your DSL modem discards all the
low frequency stuff (like you talking on the phone) and recovers the
data encoded in the high-pitched tones. Sort of like bass and
treble controls on a stereo. Bass is all your existing telephone
devices sound range and hyper-treble is where the DSL modems are
sending their data.

DSLAMS purchased by ILECs always come with insufficient loop ports to
meet the existing customer loop demand, and additional cards have
to be shipped from Pluto. Since the interplanetary postal service is
confused over the status of Pluto (planet or slightly smaller big
rock), the purchase order keeps getting lost in the mail, sent to
the wrong asteroid, etc, so expect delays in getting capacity
increased in your CO.

I described DSLAMs to a TV crew yesterday as being the equivalent of
a "Bulk Mail" center, taking the accumulated messages from a particular
city (or ISP) and then separating them down for each neighborhood post
office, or in the case of DSL, sending them to the appropriate DSLAM
in the right neighborhood central office. Meanwhile, the ISP acts
as another "Bulk Mail" center, packaging-up the messages headed to
the appropriate LEC so that that LEC can send the messages out to the
right central office and then to the DSL customers.

DSL == Generic term for the 14+ flavors of high speed data service via
twisted pair wiring, including but not limited to, RADSL (most
common in North Texas even though the ILECs offering it call it ADSL),
SDSL, IDSL, G.lite, and many many others. They do share a few
things, like they all require different consumer DSL modems to use
them.


The timing of getting more CLEC choices for DSL could not be better as SWB
has just put into place yet-another layer of paperwork and procedure
deliberately designed to prevent anyone except SBIS from getting SWB DSL loops
before the next ice age, changing the rules on ISPs who have contracts with
them for the third (or is it the fourth) time in 14 months.

(Hey, SWB! See you at the PUC, and be sure to bring your wallet!)


Some bright day when pair-sharing is really allowed by the ILECs and the ILECs
stop obstructing any CLEC who tries to use it, the ability to use a CLEC for
your DSL service will be no more painful than getting it from the ILEC. Plus
you won't have to listen to the same "on-hold" recordings that SWB has, like
the ones that have this sort of undertone:

"We almost care about you being alive and are a bit disturbed that you
managed to get this far through our voice menu system. Most people
give-up after we play the recording of random clicks and static.
Clearly we need to add several more levels and menu options that go
nowhere or offer the menu options in Swedish, or we could hang-up
on you if you don't press a button before we finish stating all the
options. Hmm, are you *still* here, or do you have us on
speakerphone while you do something else? Press 1 in the NEXT
SECOND if don't want to end this call. Rats, you *are* still there.
We definitely don't care at all about the service you might be
getting from us because we don't have to, as long as you pay your
bill in full. But, if you are determined to talk to us, please
wait for the next available agent, who is outside smoking or working
on his car. Or press 1 to listen to those clicks and hang-up noises
again that may or may not be real..."


Frank Durda IV - only this address works:|"Chase SWB off, beat them with
<uhclem.jul00%nemesis.lonestar.org> | a shovel, whatever it takes!"
| - Excellent advice as heard in a
This Anti-spam address expires Jul 31st | CLEC radio commercial.
Copr. 2000, ask before reprinting. | I'd use a back-hoe.


David Zeiger

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Jun 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/25/00
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On Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:56:46 -0500, Andrew Fullford <akfu...@august.com> wrote:
>
>Well, one of those three, or Southwestern Bell, or GTE, or
>IP Communications. There are possibly others. When we sell
>DSL, it is either SWB or GTE, at least at the moment. But,
>alright, there are only a handful of LECs doing DSL in the
>D/FW area, and I don't think Sprint is one of them.

Hmmm, I thought I remembered hearing that they are installing
their own DSLAMs, though I don't have any documentation to
verify this.

I know that they do have co-lo space in COs. I would tend to
think that if they're going to get the rack space, they may
as well throw in a DSLAM, but they may well be using all
the space for other projects.

--
David Zeiger dze...@the-institute.net
Whenever I find myself in a difficult situation, I ask myself "What
Would Jesus Do?" The mental image of my opposition being cast into
pits of hellfire for all eternity *is* comforting, but probably not
what the inventors of the phrase had in mind.

StappTexas

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Jun 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/25/00
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If you will notice, everyone that sells DSL except for Covad, Northpoint,
Rythms, SWBell and GTE, will list who they are reselling. There is not
enough money and space for every Joe, Bob and Henry to install their own
equipment in the CO's. Mostly, not enough money.

Check out their ads, most will state on the bottom in small print who their
dsl service is provided by. If it is not stated, then ask. Ask directly,
as well as ask for proof if they say it is their own service.

Once again, I rambled on...

"David Zeiger" <dze...@the-institute.net> wrote in message
news:18CAE7FACF20D3AC.6CA328DF...@lp.airnews.net...

David Zeiger

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Jun 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/25/00
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On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 08:17:38 -0700, StappTexas <Stapp...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>If you will notice, everyone that sells DSL except for Covad, Northpoint,
>Rythms, SWBell and GTE, will list who they are reselling. There is not
>enough money and space for every Joe, Bob and Henry to install their own
>equipment in the CO's. Mostly, not enough money.

Hmmm, one of those companies is gonna be really pissed then.
After all, I've been configuring DSLAMs for the last couple
of months, and they're all attached to our network. If they
all really belong to someone else, that someone else is not
going to be happy :-).

Getting back to Sprint, I agree that co-lo space is expensive,
but Sprint doesn't exactly fall into "Joe, Bob and Henry"
territory.

I just went through their site and didn't see any indication
of reselling, but I may have missed it--can you give more
specific details?

StappTexas

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Jun 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/25/00
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Sprint's fiber lines we installed for LD purposes and ran from Telco Hotels
(POP3) from city to another city and to some CO's. They do not have lines
going through to the end user. They still have to use, or resell, the LEC's
copper to the house or business. They may have their own DSL equipment in
the CO's since they have more money then the ocean has water.

The only way around that is Fixed Wireless (WorkNet, AT&T, Clearwire and a
few others)

I hope this helps.


"David Zeiger" <dze...@the-institute.net> wrote in message

news:BFF0DBDD87E99B0D.7579F908...@lp.airnews.net...
> On 25 Jun 2000 21:01:46 GMT, David Zeiger <dze...@the-institute.net>
wrote:


> >I just went through their site and didn't see any indication
> >of reselling, but I may have missed it--can you give more
> >specific details?
>

> Looking a little deeper, I did find this quote in the "Buzz"
> section of their website, from a Denver Post news article on 6/21/99
>
> "Instead of gaining access to customers through other phone
> companies, Sprint plans to use its own digital-subscriber line
> facilities, which it is building around the country for the
> new service."
>
> That is a year old, and certainly things might have changed,
> but that was all I could come up with, and suggests that they
> are not reselling service.

David Zeiger

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Jun 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/26/00
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Hank Mishkoff

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Jun 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/26/00
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> In Texas, even lower mammals and some invertebrates can apply for and
> be granted CLEC status...

Hey, Frank, I'm used to reading great material from you, but you outdid yourself
this time. Very educational, and *very* funny. I've been a SWB ADSL subscriber for
a year, and it's nice to be able to laugh about it (if I can stop crying for a few
minutes...)

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