Sign "bandits"

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Hank Mishkoff

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Aug 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/14/99
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A couple of months ago, I posted a note here asking if anyone knew
who was responsible for cutting up the signs that various "businesses"
illegally post all over the telephone poles in far north Dallas (and
elsewhere, I assume). Nobody knew much about it -- but I just read an
article in the MetroCrest News that explains that it is the work of a
loosely organized group called "Citizens Against Ugly Street Spam"
(CAUSS). If anyone is interested in learning more about them, they
have a website at:

http://www.causs.org/


J G DeBerry

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Aug 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/14/99
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Hank Mishkoff wrote:

Interesting site. Just yesterday I was at the intersection of
Midway and Trinity Mills and I saw a young lady in a
City of Carrolton pickup truck marked Environmental Dept.
picking up some of those signs. Maybe they had already been
taken down by others and she was just picking them up I
don't know.

JdB


Felton

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Aug 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/14/99
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Go guys, go!:)

The utility poles near my area are covered with those eyesores. I was
noticing that the phone numbers were cut off. While I haven't gotten
involved with street spammers to any great degree, I have removed a
fair number of signs from my own corner promoting "beanie babies" and
"sample sales" from homes in the area, in violation of city
ordinances. I really think the cities should be handling these
things. Seems like an easy enough thing to do...call the phone
numbers and tell the spammers that any of their illegal signs found in
3 days time will cost them $100 each. Just a case of people doing
what the code enforcement people are failing to do.

On Sat, 14 Aug 1999 14:24:54 -0500, J G DeBerry <jde...@airmail.net>
wrote:

The Diva

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Aug 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/14/99
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Sounds like a job for.... the YARD POLICE!

The Diva

Felton wrote in message
<7D1DC71D9A7FE4DB.61C29795...@lp.airnews.net>...

Joe Sexton

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Aug 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/14/99
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Wish there was a way to be just as effective in removing the large bill
boards from the city. I was in Houston recently and one section of the city
has been effective in restricting bill boards with a height limit. It was
very pleasant to see the skyline and surrounding areas of the
neighborhoods.....

Cano

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Aug 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/14/99
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Just this morning a guy in a City of Carrollton pickup on the corner of
Trinity Mills and Marsh was knocking signs down with a long stick.

Hank Mishkoff <Ha...@AddisonWeb.com> wrote in message
news:37B5B3AC...@AddisonWeb.com...

Howard S Shubs

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Aug 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/14/99
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In article
<7D1DC71D9A7FE4DB.61C29795...@lp.airnews.net>,
fel...@hotmail.com (Felton) wrote:

>Go guys, go!:)
>
>The utility poles near my area are covered with those eyesores. I was
>noticing that the phone numbers were cut off. While I haven't gotten
>involved with street spammers to any great degree, I have removed a
>fair number of signs from my own corner promoting "beanie babies" and
>"sample sales" from homes in the area, in violation of city
>ordinances. I really think the cities should be handling these
>things. Seems like an easy enough thing to do...call the phone
>numbers and tell the spammers that any of their illegal signs found in
>3 days time will cost them $100 each. Just a case of people doing
>what the code enforcement people are failing to do.

As I understand it, that's who is doing most of the knocking down of
signs. They knock out the important parts, then leave the rest for the
spammer to see.
--
Howard S Shubs hsh...@mindspring.com hsh...@bix.com
The Denim Adept Is this the right room for an argument?
SPAM: u...@ftc.gov postmaster@[127.0.0.1] abuse@[127.0.0.1]

The Diva

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Aug 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/14/99
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I think "ABC" computers has a new scam. I keep getting a fax from someone
selling computers. I'm suddenly getting junk fax daily - my computer screens
phone calls, so I even get awakened by faxes coming in after 11pm. I made
the mistake of asking the marketing company to take me off their list a few
months ago....sound familiar?

The Diva

stephen...@spamMeNot.edu wrote in message
<80C99D828EC59534.ACBC0916...@lp.airnews.net>...
>On Sun, 15 Aug 1999 00:17:20 GMT, ver...@usa.net (Veruca) wrote:
>
>>I don't mind people advertising lost and found pets on telephone poles --
>>it's one of the few ways of actually locating a pet or owner, besides the
>>newspaper, who charges out the wazoo for these ads. But I do get bored to
>>death with the "Need 29 people to lose a few tons in 30 days" crap. If
>>people are free to post them, other people are free to rip 'em down, imo.
>>
>>V.
>
>I agree that signs about lost dogs, garage sales, and similar items
>are different. Those aren't year-around businesses putting them up
>all over town. The problem is in how things scale. If ABC Computers,
>one of the companies who do a lot of this, can put them up all
>over town with no repercussions, so can any other busines. So ABC
>puts up 200 of them (probably more), and so do another 200 businesses,
>and now you've got 40000 signs up.
>
>
>---
>Stephen Whitis
>Email replies should go to...
>scw120198 (at) whitis.com
>
>The address in the header is not valid.

Wes M

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Aug 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/14/99
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Ok, slightly off-topic, but I think it relates: What can be done about those
idiot homebuilder signs that are routinely planted in groups of 10-25, often
in city right-of-way? It's not so much the signs that bother me (well,
actually they do....) rather it's the people in their large trucks with huge
trailers carrying 100s of these things in the back. Especially in
Lewisville and surrounding areas, where the home market is booming
(everywhere else, I admit, as well), they regularly pull into the right lane
of traffic and STOP! They have a little yellow light on top that's supposed
to mean something? (In case one of them is reading this, yellow means
CAUTION and nothing more. I don't have to do anything, but unfortunately
rear-ending you isn't an option since it'd look like my fault w/o witnesses)
This is especially maddening on the 2-lane portion of Corporate Drive which
I use every morning to head into Flower Mound (Corporate @ Valley Pkwy), as
well as on many other streets in Lewisville, including Main!

There's got to be something to do about this. Which reminds me, I have an
appointment with the city attorney Monday..

TNX,
Wes

Veruca

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
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Different cities have different laws regarding putting signs on telephone
poles. I've noticed signs in Irving threatening sign posters with fairly
hefty fines. And while I was house shopping, I noticed that most burbs
outside Dallas have stricter laws about just about everything, from sign
posting to parking to trash pickup to how many pets you can keep.

Digressing a bit, I have two cats of my own and sometimes temporarily care
for up to four foster cats or kittens for a rescue group. This would be
illegal in most cities except Dallas. (For example, Farmers Branch has a
four-critter limit.) This is silly, as I live in a boring 3/1 house and
an extra cat or two won't really matter to anyone else except me. (Yes,
they're always inside and yes, I think cat owners should keep their pets
inside. I hate cat pee on my truck tires as much as anyone else.) Why not
limit pets by weight? Five rottweilers at one house would potentially
pose a bigger problem for neighbors than five chihuahuas.

I don't mind people advertising lost and found pets on telephone poles --
it's one of the few ways of actually locating a pet or owner, besides the
newspaper, who charges out the wazoo for these ads. But I do get bored to
death with the "Need 29 people to lose a few tons in 30 days" crap. If
people are free to post them, other people are free to rip 'em down, imo.

V.


In article
<B1487CC401622EFD.DA1E33BB...@lp.airnews.net>,
"Cano" <ca...@ticnet.com> wrote:

> Just this morning a guy in a City of Carrollton pickup on the corner of
> Trinity Mills and Marsh was knocking signs down with a long stick.
>

Juan Jimenez

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
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YOU BEAT ME TO IT! <rofl!>

stephen...@spammenot.edu

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
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On Sat, 14 Aug 1999 13:21:33 -0500, Hank Mishkoff
<Ha...@AddisonWeb.com> wrote:

>A couple of months ago, I posted a note here asking if anyone knew
>who was responsible for cutting up the signs that various "businesses"
>illegally post all over the telephone poles in far north Dallas (and
>elsewhere, I assume). Nobody knew much about it -- but I just read an
>article in the MetroCrest News that explains that it is the work of a
>loosely organized group called "Citizens Against Ugly Street Spam"
>(CAUSS). If anyone is interested in learning more about them, they
>have a website at:
>
> http://www.causs.org/

I've been wondering what's the deal with those. I saw your
post, and remembered reading a DMN article long before
it. Fairly recently, a letter to the editor in the DMN gave
someones opinion, but they seemed no more informed of
what is really going on than I am.

Some of the signs are put up by buisnesses which, other
than the fact that they advertise by spreading trash all
over the city, could be legit.

But others are clearly scams. "Make money, working
at home. $5,000 per month." I think any business who
is going to pay their employees $60,000 per year is
likely to do a bit more screening, and that they can afford
to do legitimate advertising.

Recently, there were a bunch of them saying "Single? Call
214-111-1111" (or whatever number.) I'm thinking that
if your best bet for finding a date is to call a phone number
from those guys, you've got problems. Of course, maybe
I'm wrong - maybe they were put up by some guy who
just plain can't find a date...

Some say "Get paid to lose 29 pounds in 29 days. Free
samples." Hmmm. If they are paying you, why do you
need free samples? My company pays me, and doesn't
charge me to use the computer I use at work. Clearly,
they aren't really paying - they are charging. The only
thing they pay for is dragging more victims into the flock.

http://www.causs.org/

I'll check out the website. Thanks for posting about it.

stephen...@spammenot.edu

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
to
On Sun, 15 Aug 1999 00:17:20 GMT, ver...@usa.net (Veruca) wrote:

>I don't mind people advertising lost and found pets on telephone poles --
>it's one of the few ways of actually locating a pet or owner, besides the
>newspaper, who charges out the wazoo for these ads. But I do get bored to
>death with the "Need 29 people to lose a few tons in 30 days" crap. If
>people are free to post them, other people are free to rip 'em down, imo.
>
>V.

I agree that signs about lost dogs, garage sales, and similar items


are different. Those aren't year-around businesses putting them up
all over town. The problem is in how things scale. If ABC Computers,
one of the companies who do a lot of this, can put them up all
over town with no repercussions, so can any other busines. So ABC
puts up 200 of them (probably more), and so do another 200 businesses,
and now you've got 40000 signs up.

Thurman

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
to
stephen...@spamMeNot.edu wrote:
> So ABC
> puts up 200 of them (probably more), and so do another 200 businesses,
> and now you've got 40000 signs up.

And if everyone on this news group made just one call complaining....

J G DeBerry

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
to
The Diva wrote:

> I think "ABC" computers has a new scam. I keep getting a fax from someone
> selling computers. I'm suddenly getting junk fax daily - my computer screens
> phone calls, so I even get awakened by faxes coming in after 11pm. I made
> the mistake of asking the marketing company to take me off their list a few
> months ago....sound familiar?
>
> The Diva
>

It sure does. What is needed is a new law from the state of
Texas that allows what the federal law does i.e. a charge of
500 dollars for each unwanted fax you receive. What happens
when you tell them to take you off the list is that all they do is
file it into another fax machine with a slightly different marketing
company's name. Under the federal law you would have to
file suit in federal court and that is not easy to do and would be
too long a wait anyway. By the time the suit actually got into court
three or four years the marketing companies would be out of business.
To bad we couldn't have a Judge Judy court to determine these
matters and these fax scam operators would soon go out of operation.

JdB


J G DeBerry

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
to

Wes M wrote:

> Ok, slightly off-topic, but I think it relates: What can be done about those
> idiot homebuilder signs that are routinely planted in groups of 10-25, often
> in city right-of-way? It's not so much the signs that bother me (well,
> actually they do....) rather it's the people in their large trucks with huge
> trailers carrying 100s of these things in the back.

These people are everywhere. I suspect that it is legal
to put them out for less than a day. Why else would they pay
people to put them out each day and take them up each night?
Surely the cost of doing that is more than an occasionally stolen
sign would cost. I wish I knew the answer too.

JdB


Digitali Binar

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
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http://www.junkfaxes.org/

dB

On or about Sat, 14 Aug 1999 22:58:28 -0500, the suspect, " The Diva"
<di...@NOT.ticnet.com>, confessed to the following crimes:

<snip>


>I keep getting a fax from someone selling computers.
>I'm suddenly getting junk fax daily

<snip>
>
>The Diva


Joe Sexton

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
to Wes M
Hmmm, not to defend any group, but I think there are sign ordinances in
Lewsiville, Coppell, etc which allow realtor & garage sale signs up during the
weekend, but they must be taken down during the week. There are companies that
put up and take down the signs every weekend, hence those large trailers with
100's of signs.

IMHO, it seems to be a reasonable compromise. I don't like the signs, but after
recently selling my house, I understand the need for them.

Wes M wrote:

> Ok, slightly off-topic, but I think it relates: What can be done about those
> idiot homebuilder signs that are routinely planted in groups of 10-25, often
> in city right-of-way? It's not so much the signs that bother me (well,
> actually they do....) rather it's the people in their large trucks with huge

> trailers carrying 100s of these things in the back. Especially in
> Lewisville and surrounding areas, where the home market is booming
> (everywhere else, I admit, as well), they regularly pull into the right lane
> of traffic and STOP! They have a little yellow light on top that's supposed
> to mean something? (In case one of them is reading this, yellow means
> CAUTION and nothing more. I don't have to do anything, but unfortunately
> rear-ending you isn't an option since it'd look like my fault w/o witnesses)
> This is especially maddening on the 2-lane portion of Corporate Drive which
> I use every morning to head into Flower Mound (Corporate @ Valley Pkwy), as
> well as on many other streets in Lewisville, including Main!
>
> There's got to be something to do about this. Which reminds me, I have an
> appointment with the city attorney Monday..
>
> TNX,
> Wes
>

> Hank Mishkoff <Ha...@AddisonWeb.com> wrote in message
> news:37B5B3AC...@AddisonWeb.com...

stephen...@spammenot.edu

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
to
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999 22:58:28 -0500, " The Diva" <di...@NOT.ticnet.com>
wrote:

>I think "ABC" computers has a new scam. I keep getting a fax from someone
>selling computers. I'm suddenly getting junk fax daily - my computer screens
>phone calls, so I even get awakened by faxes coming in after 11pm. I made
>the mistake of asking the marketing company to take me off their list a few
>months ago....sound familiar?
>
>The Diva

I don't have a fax machine, so I don't get bothered with those. But
unsolicited faxes are illegal. I can put you in touch with a guy who
sued Sanford Wallace (the ex-spam king from Cyberpromo) over
unsolicited faxes if you want some more info.

Wes M

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
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Oh, I'm perfectly happy with the signs that say "OPEN HOUSE ----->" and so
forth, what gets me are these HUGE clumps of signs that say nothing more
than "Beazy Homes" They're not advertising anything! Having never
purchased a ome before, maybe I'm a little off, but I don't think I would
drive around town looking for this little indication of where a home can be
bought. Surely there are other, more interesting and informative, ways of
buying a house.

While I was typing this, another argument came to mind: What about people
who aren't familiar with the area who are LOOKING for these homes they've
done research on? Simple...give them directions to the development. This
can't be that hard, can it? And if they get lost, give 'em a phone number
to call for more information on how to get there.

Wes

Joe Sexton <jse...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:54990B3CED04924B.C3BCFD70...@lp.airnews.net...

David L. Cathey

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Aug 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/15/99
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This used to be a major problem in Plano a few years ago,
mostly with Apt. Leasing offices. Plano passed a city ordinance
against much of this, and now it's much better. Except for the
occasional blooms of the "Single?" signs from Together Dating Service.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David L. Cathey |Inet: dav...@montagar.com
Montagar Software Concepts |Fone: (972)-578-5036
P. O. Box 260772, Plano, TX 75026 |http://www.montagar.com
Postmaster, Hostmaster, Webmaster |http://www.whiteice.com

Michael Rathbun

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Aug 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/16/99
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In dfw.general on Sun, 15 Aug 1999 08:08:48 -0500,

J G DeBerry <jde...@airmail.net> wrote:

>It sure does. What is needed is a new law from the state of
>Texas that allows what the federal law does i.e. a charge of
>500 dollars for each unwanted fax you receive.

We tried to get one passed that did that for all forms of cost-shifted
advertising (junk email, junk FAX, etc.). It got killed early in its life.
However, HB23 passed (see below).

> What happens
>when you tell them to take you off the list is that all they do is
>file it into another fax machine with a slightly different marketing
>company's name. Under the federal law you would have to
>file suit in federal court and that is not easy to do and would be
>too long a wait anyway.

Actually, under the federal law you can _only_ sue in local court. Only the
State Attorney General can sue under the TCPA in federal court. Check out
www.junkfaxes.org and www.tcpalaw.com for the real info. Look at the FCC's
"What can you do about it" web page at
http://www.fcc.gov/ccb/consumer_news/unsolici.html for more links.

Half the time you don't even have to sue. I send a demand letter with a copy
of the law, offering to settle out of court. So far, that has worked in about
half the cases.

In short: It is always illegal for any person in the USA to send an
unsolicited FAX advertisement. You don't have to ask to be taken off their
list (or rather, added to their do-not-FAX list). You just go to court and
collect the money. If everybody did that, there would be a lot of owners of
FAX machines with lots of spending money, and a lot of junk FAX operations out
of business.

> By the time the suit actually got into court
>three or four years the marketing companies would be out of business.
>To bad we couldn't have a Judge Judy court to determine these
>matters and these fax scam operators would soon go out of operation.

We do: it's called small-claims court. That's where you file for your
$500.00 each per junk FAX. Do it. (Technically, it's $1,500 each if you can
convince the judge that the FAX was sent "knowingly". The FCC says that
"knowingly" means "they knew they were sending a FAX advertisement". Most
judges seem to think it means "they knew they were breaking the law.")

And, by the way, after 1 September, it will be a misdemeanor in Texas to send
a FAX advertisement between 11 p.m. and 7 a.m. Check the bill the Legislature
passed, HB23:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/cgi-bin/tlo/textframe.cmd?LEG=76&SESS=R&CHAMBER=H&BILLTYPE=B&BILLSUFFIX=00023&VERSION=5&TYPE=B
--
Here's a health to the Barrator^H^H^H^Hister. http://www.junkfaxes.org

Veruca

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Aug 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/16/99
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And www.junkbusters.com is a good source of info, too.

V.


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