Robertson and Rod
Roger King
And I think I'm officially growing tired of Rod Allen. He was predicting a Tiger blowout just because they got 3 runs in the first and was singing the praises of Robertson and his "corrected delivery" while he was "walking and balking" the bases loaded.
4-3 Rays in the 6th.
Roger King
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Gmrst...@cs.com
And I think I'm officially growing tired of Rod Allen. He was predicting a Tiger blowout just because they got 3 runs in the first and was singing the praises of Robertson and his "corrected delivery" while he was "walking and balking" the bases loaded.
I have been officially "tired" of Rod Allen (and his sycophantic cohort) for at least two years and probably more like three years.
I consistently mute the TV and listen to the radio even though there's like a 15 second delay between the two. So the stuff happens on the radio first and then I can look up and see it happen on TV.
I think our TV announcers are just horrible. Their banter is completely lacking in entertainment value. Their knowledge of the game is questionable. They both spew nonesensical propganda. They basically suck.
GO TIGERS!
chris
Roger King
Roger King
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-----Original Message-----
From: Gmrst...@cs.com
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 07:19:01
To:tig...@lists.ibl.org
Subject: Re: Robertson and Rod
In a message dated 5/30/2007 9:01:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pnag...@pnagency.com writes:
And I think I'm officially growing tired of Rod Allen. �He was predicting a Tiger blowout just because they got 3 runs in the first and was singing the praises of Robertson and his "corrected delivery" while he was "walking and balking" the bases loaded.
Perry, John
If you need some reason to be optimistic about the current TV crew... remember when Ray Lane used to come on for an inning or two every game? *They've eradicated him*!!! And some people say there is no God. Amazing.
It's a huge relief, any time the Tigers are on Fox's national broadcast of the week one day, to have them back on FSD the next day. Any day you don't have to listen to Joe "I can tell the difference between a 99 and 100 mph fastball" Morgan and Jon Miller, isn't as bad as it could have been.
I like Dan Dickerson -- now that he's gotten over calling every 3rd pitch a "slurve" -- and Jim Price, too, though I don't listen to them a great deal. I'm in a radio no-man's land at home. There's no doubt that Dickerson and Price are feeble in comparison to Harwell and Carey, whom I grew up with. But *anyone* would be. They were all-time greats. My mother, though, swears that Harry Heilman was better than Harwell.
I'd rather have Rick Rizzs back than Dan Dickerson; I liked him and think he didn't get much of a fair shake. But Dickerson has come a long way and he's all right. Jim Price is bland and boring, however he's going to retire some day, or die. I look forward to missing him. The team doesn't *want* anyone with a personality. Actually Price might not ever retire, and it might not matter if he dies. They could very well put him in there anyway, with an endless replay of "That's a nice area", "Al Kaline was a great player" and "Touch 'em all".
-----Original Message-----
From: listmgr...@lists.ibl.org [mailto:listmgr...@lists.ibl.org] On Behalf Of Roger King
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:30 AM
To: Tigers List
Subject: Re: Robertson and Rod
I kind of like Mario and certainly would take him and Allen over Dickerson and especially Price. Chris, your tolerance level is high to be able to listen to Jim Price day in and day out.
Roger King
El Presidente: PN Agency (PNA)/Ethnic Voice Talent (EVT)
In Toronto (416) 515-8918
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-----Original Message-----
From: Gmrst...@cs.com
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 07:19:01
To:tig...@lists.ibl.org
Subject: Re: Robertson and Rod
In a message dated 5/30/2007 9:01:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pnag...@pnagency.com writes:
And I think I'm officially growing tired of Rod Allen. �He was predicting a Tiger blowout just because they got 3 runs in the first and was singing the praises of Robertson and his "corrected delivery" while he was "walking and balking" the bases loaded.
I have been officially "tired" of Rod Allen (and his sycophantic cohort) for at least two years and probably more like three years.
I consistently mute the TV and listen to the radio even though there's like a 15 second delay between the two. So the stuff happens on the radio first and then I can look up and see it happen on TV.
I think our TV announcers are just horrible. Their banter is completely lacking in entertainment value. Their knowledge of the game is questionable. They both spew nonesensical propganda. They basically suck.
GO TIGERS!
chris
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Roger King
Agree on Joe Morgan but he and Miller (whom I think is great) are with ESPN, not Fox.
I think Jim Price is just about the most annoying baseball broasdcaster I've ever heard.
And I think I'm officially growing tired of Rod Allen. �He was predicting a Tiger blowout just because they got 3 runs in the first and was singing the praises of Robertson and his "corrected delivery" while he was "walking and balking" the bases loaded.
Perry, John
I guess I agree on Miller; I don't really mind him. But it's hard to disassociate him from Morgan. Morgan was obviously a great baseball player. Too bad he didn't stop his baseball career there and buy a fishing boat or take up golf or get into car racing or something where I wouldn't have to put up with him.
Morgan is nearly as annoying as Jim Northrup was on the old PASS broadcasts. Some records are not meant to be broken.
I like Dan Dickerson -- now that he's gotten over calling every 3rd pitch a "slurve" -- and Jim Price, too, though I don't listen to them a great ddeal. I'm in a radio no-man's land at home. There's no doubt that Dickerson and Price are feeble in comparison to Harwell and Carey, whom I grew up with. But *anyone* would be. They were all-time greats. My mother, though, swears that Harry Heilman was better than Harwell.
I'd rather have Rick Rizzs back than Dan Dickerson; I liked him and think he didn't get much of a fair shake. But Dickerson has come a long way and he's all right. Jim Price is bland and boring, however he's going to retire some day, or die. I look forward to missing him. The team doesn't *want* anyone with a personality. Actually Price might not ever retire, and it might not matter if he dies. They could very well put him in there anyway, with an endless replay of "That's a nice area", "Al Kaline was a great player" and "Touch 'em all".
-----Original Message-----
From: listmgr...@lists.ibl.org [mailto:listmgr...@lists.ibl.org] On Behalf Of Roger King
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:30 AM
To: Tigers List
Subject: Re: Robertson and Rod
I kind of like Mario and certainly would take him and Allen over Dickerson and especially Price. Chris, your tolerance level is high to be able to listen to Jim Price day in and day out.
Roger King
El Presidente: PN Agency (PNA)/Ethnic Voice Talent (EVT)
In Toronto (416) 515-8918
Toll-Free In North America 1-800-461-8320
pnag...@pnagency.com
www.pnagency.com
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Partner: Ethnic Media Relations (EMR)
www.ethnicmediarelations.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmrst...@cs.com
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 07:19:01
To:tig...@lists.ibl.org
Subject: Re: Robertson and Rod
In a message dated 5/30/2007 9:01:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pnag...@pnagency.com writes:
And I think I'm officially growing tired of Rod Allen. �He was predicting a Tiger blowout just because they got 3 runs in the first and was singing the praises of Robertson and his "corrected delivery" while he was "walking and balking" the bases loaded.
Withey, Jeff
________________________________
From: listmgr...@lists.ibl.org on behalf of Roger King
Sent: Thu 5/31/2007 8:49 AM
To: Tigers List
Subject: Re: Robertson and Rod
>Interesting take John. Can't believe you liked Rick Rizzs though. " Goodbye baseball"??
>Agree on Joe Morgan but he and Miller (whom I think is great) are with ESPN, not Fox.
>I think Jim Price is just about the most annoying baseball broasdcaster I've ever heard.
Clearly you've never listened to the current Yankees announcers. What pompous a-holes. I should listen to them sometime soon on XM for amusement's sake since the Yankees suck now.
I like Dickerson and Price doesn't annoy me as much as he does others. I like Mario and Rod. Rod is unintentionally funny a good deal of the time. You are right about John Miller- he is one of the best. Joe Morgan can be awful at times, but he actually wasn't bad during last Sunday night's game. I think the Fox crew of Buck and McCarver (and whoever else they stick in the booth) is actually among the worst. McCarver makes Joe Morgan look like Einstein.
-Jeff
Jeffrey H. Withey, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Dept. of Immunology and Microbiology
Wayne State University School of Medicine
540 E. Canfield St.
Detroit, MI 48201
Codere, Glenn
convoluted explanation of an on-field event - an error, an injury, or a
close play - and who persist in sticking to their explanation despite
replays showing something obviously contrary to their theory.
Morgan is particularly bad for this. Rick Sutcliffe has a habit of doing
this too.
And another thing.......Why the hell do the people who present sports shows
on US TV (especially ESPN and FOX) HAVE TO SHOUT SO MUCH!!!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: listmgr...@lists.ibl.org
[mailto:listmgr...@lists.ibl.org]On Behalf Of Withey, Jeff
Sent: 31 May 2007 14:30
To: Tigers list
Subject: RE: Robertson and Rod
________________________________
-Jeff
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Gabriel Schwartz
to take him seriously as a baseball analyst, and began thinking him
as more of Mario Impemba's humorous sidekick. He's still not very
good, but at least he can provide the occasional chuckle. I don't
think it's possible to overstate how horrible Jim Price is, and I
won't listen to the radio broadcast anymore other than to check on
the score (which they don't give nearly often enough).
Impemba and Dickerson seem like pretty generic, average, play-by-play
guys to me. They're nothing special, but not overly objectionable
either. I probably prefer Mario just a bit, but that may just be
because I'm more used to hearing him.
Gabriel
Dave Perry
of their games, how were they together??
dave
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Tanvir R. Shaikh
> And another thing.......Why the hell do the people who present sports shows
> on US TV (especially ESPN and FOX) HAVE TO SHOUT SO MUCH!!!!!!
Have you never watched soccer over there?
Perry, John
2002, after a few years of Gibson and Josh Lewin. Then Gibson went into
coaching with Trammell.
I've liked Gibson through his whole baseball career. I liked him as a
fiery player (with a reputation as a meanie to autograph-seeking kids).
I liked him as a tells it as he sees it broadcaster. I liked him as a
coach for the Tigers. I'm sure I'd like him if he was a debt collector
in charge of turning sweet little old ladies out of their homes because
they hadn't paid their parking tickets.
-----Original Message-----
From: listmgr...@lists.ibl.org [mailto:listmgr...@lists.ibl.org]
On Behalf Of Dave Perry
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 10:17 AM
To: Gabriel Schwartz; tigers email list
Subject: Re: Robertson and Rod - what about Gibby??
What about Mario and Gibby? I only caught a handful
of their games, how were they together??
dave
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Steve Bielawski
wrote:
> And another thing.......Why the hell do the people
> who present sports shows on US TV (especially ESPN
> and FOX) HAVE TO SHOUT SO MUCH!!!!!!
Bad equipment makes them think that they have to shout
to be heard?
Seriously, if you think that the sports announcers
("presenters" to you) are so loud, you should hear the
so-called political discussion on CNN and MSNBC. It's
more like a shouting match than a discussion. These
guys seem to believe that if they can shout each other
down, they win the argument, no matter how stupid
their positions might be. (_Crossfire_ was the worst
on this; the hosts would do most of the shouting.
It's bad enough when it's the panelists, but you'd
think that the hosts would have the good sense to be
professionals.) And, when they aren't shouting at
each other, that only means one thing--they've got two
think-alikes appearing on the panel. (Even that
doesn't always prevent the shouting matches.
Sometimes, the panelists are so anxious to get in
their talking points that they shout down someone they
agree with so that they can get in the rehursed line.)
As for the Tiger announcers:
Ernie Harwell and Paul Carey were perfect. It's the
way that God would want us to listen to every baseball
game, had sin never enterred the world.
George Kell and Al Kaline were a great team. At
first, Mr. Kaline was shy. Mr. Kell had to coax Mr.
Kaline into talking. Mr. Kell would ask questions,
such as, "What would you do in this situation, coach?"
Mr. Kaline would have to answer. He did, and the
rest was history. (For a while, Mr. Kaline would do
play-by-play for the middle innings of games, but
someone realized that that wasn't a good idea and it
was mercifully short-lived.)
George Kell and Ernie Harwell teamed together for a
while. I don't remember them, but my older brother
does. When the game was televised (which was not too
common in those days), the same team worked the
television, but did not work together. Mr. Harwell
would do the first three innings on the radio, alone,
and Mr. Kell would do the first three innings on the
television, alone. For the middle three innings, Mr.
Harwell would do the television, and Mr. Kell would do
the radio, and then they'd switch back to Mr. Harwell
on radio and Mr. Kell on television. I gather that
Mr. Kell didn't like that arrangement, and he didn't
like travelling all summer, so he retired. When the
Tigers decided to hire a separate pair of announcers
for television, Mr. Kell came out of retirement.
George Kell and Larry Osterman did a first-rate job
together. Granted, Mr. Osterman was a professional
broadcaster, not a retired player, so the dynamic was
a bit different from that of Mr. Kaline and Mr. Kell,
but still, it was a fine partnership.
Ernie Harwell and Ray Lane did well together as well.
I'm not sure if Mr. Lane was at the peak of his game
or if Mr. Harwell brought out the best in Mr. Lane, or
perhaps both. My youth may have also played a part in
this recollection, as I wasn't quite as discriminating
at the time. Mr. Lane actually began as a partner to
Mr. Kell on television, and later moved to radio when
Mr. Osterman was hired for the telecasts. When Mr.
Lane left to go to Cincinnati, I didn't exactly miss
him that much, but I didn't think at the time that he
was dragging the radio broadcasts down.
I didn't hear Josh Lewin and Kirk Gibson too much,
since I mostly had to listen to the radio in those
days. But they were fine individually. Mr. Lewin is
very compentent with the play-by-play, and Mr. Gibson
was a fine analyst. I can't say that the interplay
between them impressed me much one way or the other.
Basicly, each got out of the way when the other was
talking, which is more than I can say for Jim Price.
I can't recall much of the banter between them, which
at least means that it doesn't stick out as
particularly bad.
Since I seem to be listing the pairings from best to
worst, Mario and Rod fit in about here. Mario does a
fine job with the play-by-play and with getting in
little facts, but he's not that great at the small
talk with his partner. Rod Allen is fine as a
commentator, although as Roger noted, he can tend to
jump to say things on small sample sizes. He also can
tend to think that he's cleverer than he is. And his
abuse of catch-phrases can get annoying. Still, they
aren't that hard to listen to.
Dan Dickerson and Jim Price are a less-than-happy
pair. Mr. Dickerson seems to be fine with the
play-by-play, even if he sometimes get overhyped by
little things. My mother told me that if I can't say
anything nice about someone, I shouldn't say anything
at all, and that limits how much I can write about Jim
Price. He does tend to keep ants away from the booth
by removing food scraps rather effectively. Mr.
Dickerson's biggest drawback is that he seems to feed
into Mr. Price's ego.
Rick Rizzs and Bob Rathbun were probably all right
individually, but they seemed to have the same faults
and to be blind to those faults. They each seemed to
have the annoying "mild twang" (as if they were trying
to hide where they came from, and not doing too good a
job of it), each had a high-pitched voice, and each
got excited over the tiniest things--which would make
their voices go even higher in pitch, as well as
increase in volume. If either of them had been paired
with a more professional announcer (such as Mario
Impemba), it might have been different. But, it was
what it was, and that wasn't too good. Ernie Harwell
was later added to the mix, when he was rehired, but
he basicly did his own thing and was fairly impervious
to what Mr. Rizzs and Mr. Rathburn were doing.
Frank Beckman probably doesn't belong this low. He is
a professional announcer, and he sounds like one.
However, he often seemed to be ill-prepared for the
game. Again, his use of catch-phrases was annoying,
largely because they seemed to be almost like a crutch
for him. (He seemed to feel that as long as he could
put in a catch-phrase, he didn't have to think of what
he was saying.) Maybe it was because he sounded to
professional to be using so many catch-phrases, but
somehow, it just didn't seem right. His first radio
partner was Lary Sorensen. Mr. Sorensen has a weak,
shaky voice which is ill-suited to broadcasting (a
fault he shares with Alan Trammell, although Mr.
Trammell thankfully never tried his hand as a
broadcaster). Mr. Sorensen had some interresting
things to say, and it was intriguing to me to hear
things from a pitcher's point-of-view, rather than
hearing a hitter (Mr. Kaline, Mr. Gibson, Mr. Price)
tell us what a pitcher is probably thinking. The
interplay between Mr. Sorensen and Mr. Beckman was
never great; it seemed as though Mr. Beckman didn't
have much regard for Mr. Sorensen, which may have
influenced my negative feelings for Mr. Beckman. Mr.
Beckman's second partner was Jim Price, and that has
to be the worst pairing (or at least the second
worst). Frank Beckman, who sounded so professional,
had nothing but the greatest respect for Jim Price, a
professional hanger-on as a player and as a
broadcaster. It was annoying to hear Mr. Beckman, who
seemed so indifferent to Lary Sorensen, get so chummy
and supportive of Jim Price. (And no wonder they had
to build a new stadium; those two strained the
supporting structure of the radio booth.) Later, Mr.
Beckman did television broadcasts, first with Al
Kaline. Mr. Kaline seemed like a fish out of water
next to Mr. Beckman. It seemed like he really missed
George Kell. Mr. Kaline retired after two seasons
with Mr. Beckman. Lance Parrish is listed as the next
broadcast partner, but I recall that didn't last very
long before Mr. Parrish was back in uniform. There
was a parade of one-time partners for Mr. Beckman, and
the best that I can say about him is that he didn't
get in the way of those partners, most of whom were
more interresting than Mr. Beckman. Finally, Jack
Morris was Mr. Beckman's partner; Mr. Morris was
fine, but the partnership lasted only one season
before Channel 50 stopped showing Tiger games.
And now for some broadcasters I don't remember at all,
and a few short-lived partnerships. On-TV, which ran
a scrambled signal on Channel 20, had Larry Adderly
doing play-by-play. His partners were the late Hank
Aguirre and the late Norm Cash. That lasted three
seasons, then the games were moved to cable. PASS had
Larry Osterman as the play-by-play man. His first
partner was Bill Freehan, who was a knowlegable man.
Jim Northrup was Mr. Osterman's second parther on
PASS, and I cna't recall him much at all. After a
decade on PASS, Mr. Osterman was replaced by Ernie
Harwell, who first teamed up with Mr. Northrup and
then with Jim Price. That lasted five seasons, until
PASS was replaced by Fox Sports Detroit. Oh, and for
one year, Mr. Harwell did all the games on
television--on PASS and on Channel 50. He partnered
with Al Kaline on Channel 50. I have a vague memory
of that year, with Mr. Kaline being pretty good with
Mr. Harwell. Mr. Kaline wasn't quite so lost as he
would later be with Mr. Beckman.
Looking at the history, I see that Harry Heilman
broadcast Tiger games on WXYZ (now WXYT) from 1934 to
1950. Ty Tyson broadcast Tiger games on WWJ from 1927
to 1942, so from 1934 to 1942, Tiger fans could choose
which of two different broadcasts (on different
stations) they wished to listen to. Talk about an
abundance.
Mr. Tyson was also the first Tigers television
announcer, on WWJ-TV. (The list at
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/det/history/broadcasters.jsp
is wrong on the call-letters; Channel 4 was called
WWDT when it was first on the air, but by the time
that it was broadcasting Tiger games, it had changed
its call-letters to WWJ-TV. It's now WDIV, and
Channel 62 is now WWJ-TV, but that's a subject for
another post. It also lists some guys who did the
pre-game show as broadcasters; they may have supplied
little segments within some broadcasts, but they
weren't part of the game action.) And no, I don't go
back far enough to remember them, nor Mel Ott (a
hall-of-fame player with the Giants; he broadcast
Tiger games before he died in a car crash), nor Van
Patrick, nor Bob Scheffing (who replaced Mr. Kell when
he retired in 1963), nor Gene Osborn (who replaced Mr.
Sheffing after his one season on the air).
Steve Bielawski
not "Frank Beckman". I must need new glasses; I
looked at the source, and I looked at it, and I still
saw only one "n" at the end. I looked at it again,
and sure enough, there were two "n"s. My bad.
Smith, Brad
- Brad
________________________________
From: listmgr...@lists.ibl.org on behalf of Steve Bielawski
Sent: Thu 5/31/2007 2:38 PM
To: Tigers List
Subject: RE: Robertson and Rod
Tanvir R. Shaikh
> Well, I'm glad you sent this when you did, because I was just about to
> hit "send" on a real flamer.
Beckman
Rob Hawks
Frau Bl�cher
Steve Bielawski
> Well, I'm glad you sent this when you did, because I
> was just about to hit "send" on a real flamer.
>
> - Brad
I remember when flaming Frank Beckmann was a common
occurance on this list. He used to get the passions
going, but these days, it seems like people have
completely forgotten him. How many posts were there
today, before I remembered him? (And yes, I did
remember him; I looked up to see exactly when he
broadcast Tigers games, but I did remember him.
Sometimes, I wonder if electroshock will elminate some
of these memories of mine.)
Smith, Brad
________________________________
From: listmgr...@lists.ibl.org on behalf of Steve Bielawski
Sent: Thu 5/31/2007 4:42 PM
To: Tigers List
Subject: RE: Robertson and Rod