Mario and Rod are idiots

[David Panian]

At least when it comes to their Hall of Fame knowledge.

Just now Rod mused if Pudge Rodriguez might choose the Tigers hat for
his Hall of Fame plaque. He apparently missed the bruhaha a few years
ago when Dave Winfield chose the Padres for his plaque. Since then,
the Hall has picked which team the players will represent.

Then Mario and Rod wondered aloud if Al Kaline was the last Tiger to
be enshrined. A minute or so later, Mario said Kaline was the last
Tiger so enshrined.

That is so wrong its laughable. Kaline was enshrined in 1980. Hal
Newhouser was enshrined in 1992. Kaline was the last Tiger voted in
by the writers. Newhouser was elected by the veterans committee, but
the plaques don't say how the HoFers got in.

I guess I can understand forgetting the part about the caps, but not
knowing when the few Tigers in the Hall got in? Open a frickin' media
guide, guys!

David

[Paul Meloche]

I would have said Kaline, myself.

THAT being said, I would have had the foresight to flip through the
media guide next to me in the booth before I opened my mouth.

Paul M.

[Gmrst...@cs.com]

In a message dated 6/17/2007 2:53:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dpa...@comcast.net writes:

At least when it comes to their Hall of Fame knowledge.

David, I embrace and support your anti-Rod & Mario rant. Good for you! Join us on the dark side.

I think these guys are dreadful. I have been out spoken of my criticism of Jim Price, but I would happily take Price any day over these two morons.

I know fish with more personality than Mario. I know snails and grubs with more personality.

Rod is a little more lively but not any more intelligent. He says some of the stupidest things I have ever heard sports announcers say on TV or radio. Awful.

The Tigers organization need some quality announcers!!

I can't wait for some of the current team to retire since pretty much all of them, even the ones who don't speak English very well, would be better than these clowns.

on the dark side
chris

[GrnW...@aol.com]

In a message dated 6/17/2007 12:24:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Gmrst...@cs.com writes:

I know fish with more personality than Mario. I know snails and grubs with more personality

You know fish and snails and grubs?  How do you converse?  Do you go to ball games together?  Play cards?  Do you hang out with the fish and grubs at the same time?

 

As a subscriber to MLB Extra Innings, I get to (?) see and hear many of the commentators for the other teams.  While Mario and Rod may not be the best, there are a whole lot out there who are a lot worse.  Certainly easier to listen to than Hawk.  I wonder (and of course will never know for sure) if "He gone" would sound good if he were a Tigers announcer. 

 

You guys are spoiled by the memories of how good Ernie was.

 

As an aside, this weekend I heard the great Harry Kalas call Jimmy Rollins J Ro.  I almost fell out of my chair! 

 

 

---

See what's free at AOL.com.

[kar...@aol.com]

Living out here in Phoenix, I also get the MLB Extra Innings version of the games. And it's actually fun to get to hear a cross section of baseball announcers from around the country. Some, I really like. Some I detest. Hawk is horrible but the Yankees crew are the worst. They rank as the most arrogant and dismissive broadcasting group in the country...and that is saying something. On the other hand I really like listening to the Twins broadcasts with Bert Blyleven. And hearing Josh Lewin on the Texas broadcast can be fun though he really thinks he is funnier than he is. As for the Phillies group, Hary Kalas is first rate and always has been. He has 2 partners. Someone named Chris Wheeler who is fine and the "Sarge" Gary Matthews Sr. I could do without Matthews. He isn't awful just doesn't bring a lot to the table. Why is it that every broadcast pair has to have an ex-player? I grew up listening to Ernie Harwell and Paul Carey (after Ray Lane left) and thought they were the best announcers I ever heard. They may not have been able to tell you how to hit a curve ball but they sure could describe what was happening on the field.  

---

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Roger King]

I agree here.  I don't see/hear anything wrong with Mario nor do I see any evidence that he's "an idiot".  Because he forgot off the top of his head that Newhouser went into the Hall in 1992, that qualifies him as "an idiot"?  Seems a little harsh. 

 

I think Rod Allen gets a little tiresome in the same way that any "homer" announcer does - I'm just not a fan of broadcasters who actually blatantly cheer on the home team.  That was one of Ernie's many great qualities as a broadcaster - he would never say "we" and/or say things like "C'mon Maggs, we need a big hit here".   Rod does this and Price does too, to a nauseating degree.  Price is so absolutely annoying right across the board that anyone is at the very least tolerable in comparison.

 

On the whole, I think Mario and Rod are not a bad team.  As GrnWve notes below, listen to some other team's broadcasts and you may appreciate Mario a little more.

Roger

----- Original Message -----

From: GrnW...@aol.com

To: tig...@lists.ibl.org

Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 5:30 PM

Subject: Re: Mario and Rod are idiots

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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[Steve Bielawski]

--- David Panian <dpa...@comcast.net> wrote:

> At least when it comes to their Hall of Fame
> knowledge.

Oh, more that just that, David.

On Friday, Mario asked Rod if he had gone to see the
Liberty Bell. Rod said that he had never seen the
Liberty Bell, and asked Mario if he had ever seen it.
Mario responded that he did see it, the last time that
the Tigers were in Philadelphia. Rod then asked if
the Liberty Bell still strikes the hour, and Mario
said that he didn't know.

The bell is severely cracked. You don't ring a bell
in that condition. The bell could disintigrate, and
big chunks might come down and do damage to the
building, or worse, to people nearby. Besides that, a
cracked bell sounds terrible.

The bell started cracking early in its history. Two
locals were asked to recast the bell, and after they
made two attempts, the bell still sounded bad. The
Pennsylvania Assembly simply ordered another bell from
the same foundry in London which made the first bell,
but that one was no better, so the new bell was put in
the State House and attached to the clock, while the
old bell remained in the assembly hall, where it had
been. This led to some confusion as to which was the
Liberty Bell. The Liberty Bell is now at the Liberty
Bell Centre, its own museum, and not in Independence
Hall.

> Just now Rod mused if Pudge Rodriguez might choose
> the Tigers hat for his Hall of Fame plaque. He
> apparently missed the bruhaha a few years ago when
> Dave Winfield chose the Padres for his plaque.

He chose the Padres, but as I recall, there was some
pressure on him to make that choice. I had heard that
both the Padres and the Yankees were trying to bribe
him to go in with their cap. The Hall intervened, but
did not ultimately make the decision for him.

> Since then, the Hall has picked which team the
> players will represent.

Not quite. The Hall has narrowed down the teams that
a player may choose from, and in some cases, that does
narrow it down to one team. However, some players
still get a choice. Among the criteria are the length
of service that that player had with that team, any
individual accomplishments he may have made with that
team (e.g., winnning a home run title, leading the
league in E.R.A., being named the league's most
valuable player), and any post-season appearances with
the team.

Ivan Rodriguez certainly spent a lot of time with the
Texas Rangers, so his length of service with the
Rangers will count heavily in determining which team
he represents on the HOF plaque (assuming he gets
one--and I do assume that he will). He spent only one
year with the Marlins, but that was the only year in
which he played for a World Series winner. He has
played for the Tigers for the last four years, and
likely will be back for a fifth year next year. That,
combined with the Tigers' appearance in the World
Series last year, might be enough to allow him to
choose the Tigers as his team when he is elected to
the Hall Of Fame. And whatever else he accomplishes
as a Tiger could help tip the balance towards him
being a Tiger on his plaque. We'll just have to see
what happens there.

> I guess I can understand forgetting the part about
> the caps, but not knowing when the few Tigers in the

> Hall got in? Open a frickin' media guide, guys!

Once upon a time, the phrase "research department"
wasn't entirely a joke. People in the press box would
listen to the game and would pass along information.
I know that there are people these days who can
instantly come up with amazingly obscure statistics,
although I also find question I wish that they'd tell
me but don't (e.g., "how close was Mr. Verlander to
being the youngest pitcher to throw a no-hitter?")
You would think that someone would indeed look up the
information.

Note to Chris: I agree that Rod Allen can be
irritating, but I for one find him far less so that
Jim Price. I do agree that Mario can tend to be a bit
too much the "impersonal, generic announcer-man type",
which I assume is your complaint about him not having
a personality. However, he's even worse when he tries
to have a personality, as in the Liberty Bell
incident.

As for the Tigers needing better broadcasters, I don't
disagree, I think that we were spoiled by George Kell,
Ernie Harwell, Paul Carey, and Al Kaline. Expecting
new guys to come in and be that good is like expecting
a rookie to come up and replace a Hall-Of-Famer. The
play-by-play men are fine at play-by-play, or at the
very least, good enough. The colour guys could both
be replaced and I wouldn't miss them, although they
also could be replaced by people who are even worse.

People who listen to out-of-town broadcast teams have
told us form time to time how bad those teams are, and
I believe them. The Tigers certainly could do a lot
worse than the announcers whom they have.

BTW, for those who think that today's Tigers would
make good announcers, I agree, but they may not get
the chance--at least, not with the Tigers. Two of the
Class Of '84 became announcers, at least at a time
during their careers in baseball. Jack Morris is a
colour man for the Twins on about 50 broadcasts per
year, and Kirk Gibson spent quite a few years as an
announcer on FSN-Detroit. Both were fine, but neither
had a chance to replace Jim Price. And it's not
because he's irreplacable--he is only irreplacable in
his own mind, if even there. And the current Tigers
might not get a chance to become announcers, either.
(I hope that Sean Casey can get a chance to be a
broadcaster, but it depends on where and when
opportunities open up for him, in baseball and elsewhere.)

[Tanvir R. Shaikh]

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 kar...@aol.com wrote:
> On the other hand I really like listening to the Twins broadcasts with
> Bert Blyleven.

I haven't used MLB.tv much this year, but last year, I enjoyed listening
to the Royals broadcast team. Maybe the team is so bad that they can't be
homers, so that's one less thing that can lead them astray.

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Steve Bielawski wrote:
> On Friday, Mario asked Rod if he had gone to see the
> Liberty Bell. Rod said that he had never seen the
> Liberty Bell, and asked Mario if he had ever seen it.
> Mario responded that he did see it, the last time that
> the Tigers were in Philadelphia. Rod then asked if
> the Liberty Bell still strikes the hour, and Mario
> said that he didn't know.
>
> The bell is severely cracked.

A more accessible source of information for heathen announcers would be
the Phillies logo, where the bell shows a crack.

(Before I remembered this, I first looked at the Pennsylvania quarter,
which would have also given me the excuse to quote Steven Wright.)

-Tapu

[Andrew Christianson]

I guess I'll chime in as another Extra Innings person. Mario is "middle of
the road" as far as the play by play role, there are certainly worse. I
enjoyed the Phillies' guys on Friday and personally liked Lewin (Rangers)
and whoever does the Angels games. As an ex-Minnesotan, I want to throw up
every time Bert Blyleven circles someone, but that's probably just bias. If
you dislike "homer" broadcasters, the Twins and White Sox crews are much
worse than Rod Allen. I've actually screamed "You can put THAT on the
board....YES!" at my TV when we homer against the Sox.

As an aside, it will be frustrating here in Wisconsin if we don't have the
Tigers on FOX yet again next Saturday. In a strange twist, our success has
actually meant I see LESS Tigers games than I used to. And if anybody knows
why several Sunday afternoon games haven't been on Extra Innings lately, I'd
be curious. I think today's game was the only MLB game not on either Extra
Innings or ESPN. Of course my wife thinks 140 games a year is plenty....

Andrew

_________________________________________________________________
Who's that on the Red Carpet? Play & win glamorous prizes.
http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=REDCARPET_hotmailtextlink3

[kar...@aol.com]

Having been a subscriber to Extra Innings for 11 years I have encountered this situation many times. Although I don't know this for sure I believe that each provider of the extra innings package must have a contract with the broadcaster of the baseball game in order for them to show those games on their system. I have DirecTv. So DirecTv has to have an agreement with FOX Sports Net to show games produced by FOX Sports Network stations. That covers the majority of games. However, quite a few games are produced by and shown on local stations in each city. In Philadelpha they show about 1 game a week on CW 57. Detroit does the same on WJBK channel 2. If DirecTv does not have a deal with these local stations to show the games it cannot show them. It just so happens that Sunday's game was being broadcast locally to Detroit on WJBK and to Philadelphia on CW 57 and so neither broadcast could be shown. This will happen quite a few times, usually on Saturday night or Sunday afternoon games, during the season.

However, the game is still available via MLB.TV.  MLB TV can show any game broadcast by anyone because Major League Baseball owns the broadcast rights to all major league baseball games. They can even show games which are not sent out over the air (in essence games which are not on television at all) but for which there are tv cameras in the stadium recording the game for the use of the teams. And there are tv cameras in every major league stadium and every game is recorded whether or not it is sent over the air to someone's televison. MLB.TV will pick up this (somewhat limited) broadcast of the game and show it and will simulcast the home team's radio broadcast of the game along with it.

Then, of course, there are the blackout restrictions. In brief your local area team is blacked out. Extra Innings does this based on your zip code. MLB.TV does this based on your IP address. For me that means I can't watch Arizona Diamondback games. But those are all on local channels here if I wanted to watch them. The other blackout restrictions are National. FOX owns the exclusive rights to baseball broadcasts on Saturday afternoon (1 PM to 7 PM EDT) and they pay a lot for that right. So there are no games available on Saturday afternoon in the US via either extra innings or MLB.TV. And ESPN has a similar restriction on Sunday nights. This only really affects Texas Rangers home games on Sunday night as most other teams play day games on Sunday.

As for the Tigers games in Atlanta this weekend. Only one of them will be available via extra innings and that is the Friday night game (which will feature John Smoltz against either Kenny Rogers or Andrew Miller). The Saturday afternoon game is one of the 3 selected games for the FOX regional broadcast beginning at 3:55 PM EDT. You can see that on your local FOX station if your area of the country is designated for that game. In Phoenix that would be unlikely as we generally get a west coast team or at the very least a National League game in our region. Whether it is shown in your local area depends on what other 2 games FOX is doing and which one they assume you would be most interested in watching. (Having FOX executives choose which baseball game I might want to watch for me is annoying). FOX could make a deal with the Satellite and cable networks to show all 3 games and allow the viewer to choose (NBC does this with the NHL) but they don't. Sunday's game will be broadcast nationally by ESPN and will be a night game beginning at 8:05 PM EDT.

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Christianson
To: tig...@lists.ibl.org

[Gmrst...@cs.com]

From Roger: >>I agree here.  I don't see/hear anything wrong with Mario nor do I see any evidence that he's "an idiot".  Because he forgot off the top of his head that Newhouser went into the Hall in 1992, that qualifies him as "an idiot"?  Seems a little harsh.  <<

I think the Newhouser thing is just another example. One of many that proves the case. It's more like the straw that broke the camel's back.
If these guys made occasional errors like this or said stupid things rarely (and then maybe corrected themselves), it wouldn't be so glaring.

I had forgotten the Newhouser thing too. It's not the point. Plus, the answer is (or should be) right at their fingertips. I would likely keep my mouth shut until I knew for sure or at least couch my comments in an uncertain mode.

If Rod says one more time that he can't understand why Chicago sucks with "their great offense" (does he look at stats at all????) I am going to call for his public execution!!!

Plus, I condemned them for having no personality.
I think they're awful as announcers. I know you're the expert in this field, Roger, though I do have quite a bit of training and study in it as well

[Tony Matt]

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 Gmrst...@cs.com wrote:
> From Roger:
>> I agree here. I don't see/hear anything wrong with Mario nor do I see
>> any evidence that he's "an idiot". Because he forgot off the top of
>> his head that Newhouser went into the Hall in 1992, that qualifies him
>> as "an idiot"? Seems a little harsh. <<
>

> I had forgotten the Newhouser thing too. It's not the point. Plus, the
> answer is (or should be) right at their fingertips.

The producer or production assistant would have that information
at their fingertips; the announcers are (or should be) focused
on the action on the field. I don't listen to Mario and Rod,
and have no opinion about their intelligence. Still, I'm not
convinced that having poorly prepared support staff makes them
idiots.

Besides, are we sure they were intending to discuss the Tiger most
recently enshrined and not the most recently active Tiger enshrined?

TM

[Roger King]

This kind of reminds me of an interview with Paul McCartney I read recently where McCartney was discussing a Beatles song and said "is that song on Revolver?". Now every diehard Beatles fan in the world can tell you the order of songs on every album but the guy who actually wrote and recorded the songs doesn't even remember. Is he "an idiot"?

Likewise, we might expect the Detroit Tigers announcers to know "obvious" things like the last Tiger to be voted into the Hall of Fame but I'm not sure it's a comment on their intelligence that they didn't. Especially in this context which sounds to me like a spontaneous, between pitches, on-air chat. Nor does it sound like either one was definitively saying that Kaline was the last Tiger to go in but rather something like, "I think it was Kaline". I could be wrong on that last point as I didn't hear the broadcast.

Roger King
El Presidente: PN Agency (PNA)/Ethnic Voice Talent (EVT)
In Toronto (416) 515-8918
Toll-Free In North America 1-800-461-8320
pnag...@pnagency.com
www.pnagency.com
www.ethnicvoicetalent.com

Partner: Ethnic Media Relations (EMR)
www.ethnicmediarelations.com

[David Panian]

Not when one of them asked, "I wonder who was the last Tiger to go into
the Hall of Fame?"

I just find it surprising that people who are supposed to be experts in
one team, who spend about 80 days a year looking at a field that
includes a wall with the names of the Tigers Hall of Famers on it and
has statues of some those Hall of Famers, don't know a pretty simple fact.

Now, could I tell you for sure the order of Gehringer and Greenberg's
enshrinement? Not without looking it up. But I know Cobb was first, I
know Kaline was in the early 1980s and I know Newhouser was after Kaline
because Prince Hal was pretty old when he was inducted.

I know Rod and Mario weren't here when Newhouser's number was retired or
when he was elected, but it's their jobs to know more about the Tigers
than anyone else. The fact that they apparently don't means the Tigers
could have hired just about anyone from this list, probably saved a
little money, and received just as good a performance - if not better.

David

[dpa...@comcast.net]

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Roger King" <pnag...@pnagency.com>
> This kind of reminds me of an interview with Paul McCartney I read recently
> where McCartney was discussing a Beatles song and said "is that song on
> Revolver?". Now every diehard Beatles fan in the world can tell you the order
> of songs on every album but the guy who actually wrote and recorded the songs
> doesn't even remember. Is he "an idiot"?
>

No. I'd put that in the same category as a parent not remembering right of the top of their head the ages of their grown children. Sometimes you have to stop and do the math.

And how many songs has McCartney written? Hundreds, right? How many Hall of Famers do the Tigers have? There are eight in the Hall as Tigers. I can see McCartney having to think about which albums some of his songs are on because there are so many, but is it too much to ask someone who has been with the team for more than five years (in Mario's case) and four years (in Rod's case) to know enough about the team's Hall of Famers to know which one was inducted most recently?

> Likewise, we might expect the Detroit Tigers announcers to know "obvious" things
> like the last Tiger to be voted into the Hall of Fame but I'm not sure it's a
> comment on their intelligence that they didn't. Especially in this context
> which sounds to me like a spontaneous, between pitches, on-air chat. Nor does
> it sound like either one was definitively saying that Kaline was the last Tiger
> to go in but rather something like, "I think it was Kaline". I could be wrong
> on that last point as I didn't hear the broadcast.
>

It was not a spur of the moment thing. The subject of Pudge becoming a Hall of Famer and which hat his plaque would have him in just seemed to develop randomly, which normally happens during broadcasts. Then when Rod and Mario wondered aloud who the last Tiger to be inducted was, there were a couple pitches before Mario said, "Yep, it was Kaline," like he or someone else had looked it up.

And my original e-mail included the caveat "at least when it comes to their Hall of Fame knowledge" as the very first line of the e-mail. I'm sure there are many things in which they are well-versed. For instance, I'm sure Rod is an expert in what it is like to be in the lineup during a no-hitter, as he was the starting DH when Jack Morris threw his.

But I think they've proven they are not well-versed in Tigers Hall of Famers, which is a shame for two guys whose jobs it is to be well-versed in all things Tigers.

David

>
>
> Roger King
> El Presidente: PN Agency (PNA)/Ethnic Voice Talent (EVT)
> In Toronto (416) 515-8918
> Toll-Free In North America 1-800-461-8320
> pnag...@pnagency.com
> www.pnagency.com
> www.ethnicvoicetalent.com
>
> Partner: Ethnic Media Relations (EMR)
> www.ethnicmediarelations.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Matt <to...@theworld.com>
> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:54:57
> To:Detroit Tigers Mailing List <tig...@lists.ibl.org>
> Subject: Re: Mario and Rod are idiots
>

> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 Gmrst...@cs.com wrote:
> > From Roger:
> >> I agree here. I don't see/hear anything wrong with Mario nor do I see
> >> any evidence that he's "an idiot". Because he forgot off the top of
> >> his head that Newhouser went into the Hall in 1992, that qualifies him
> >> as "an idiot"? Seems a little harsh. <<
> >
> > I had forgotten the Newhouser thing too. It's not the point. Plus, the
> > answer is (or should be) right at their fingertips.
>
> The producer or production assistant would have that information
> at their fingertips; the announcers are (or should be) focused
> on the action on the field. I don't listen to Mario and Rod,
> and have no opinion about their intelligence. Still, I'm not
> convinced that having poorly prepared support staff makes them
> idiots.
>
> Besides, are we sure they were intending to discuss the Tiger most
> recently enshrined and not the most recently active Tiger enshrined?
>

> TM

[Steve Bielawski]

Two quick points for Chris:

--- Gmrst...@cs.com wrote:

> If Rod says one more time that he can't understand
> why Chicago sucks with "their great offense" (does
> he look at stats at all????) I am going to call for
> his public execution!!!

"Their great offense" can refer to either the
potential of their hitters or to the current
performance of those hitters. And that's exactly what
the problem is. The White Sox have a bunch of hitters
who can do some very good things at the plate, but
they just aren't having a good year. Granted, the
year when they won the World Series, everybody was
having a good year for them, so that wasn't exactly
normal. Still, the point is that if the White Sox
hitters were living up to their potential, they would
be winning more games. (If they hit against other
teams the way that the White Sox hit against the
Tigers, they'd be in great shape.)

> Plus, I condemned them for having no personality.
> I think they're awful as announcers.

What sort of a personality did Paul Carey have? Ernie
Harwell had the "homespun wit" and "expert without a
college degree" sort of personality, and those fit him
quite well. But what was Paul Carey's personality
like? FWIW, I can recall Mr. Harwell adding in to Mr.
Carey's comments now and then (though certainly not to
the point of taking the spotlight away from his
partner), but Mr. Carey seemed only to add that
someone is warming up or the latest news from
out-of-town. I can't even much recall Mr. Carey
telling stories of him meeting with a player in the
hotel lobby or at breakfast. I'm sure that he told a
few of those stories, but they were excedingly bland
and just don't stick in my mind. And yet, people
thought of him as a fine announcer.

[Steve Bielawski]

Your main point is well-taken, Roger. This is the
sort of thing that a diehard fan knows but a hired
announcer doesn't always know. That's very true, and
the fact that the announcer doesn't get it right off
the top of his head does not make him an idiot.

--- Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com> wrote:

> This kind of reminds me of an interview with Paul
> McCartney I read recently where McCartney was
> discussing a Beatles song and said "is that song on
> Revolver?". Now every diehard Beatles fan in the
> world can tell you the order of songs on every album
> but the guy who actually wrote and recorded the
> songs doesn't even remember. Is he "an idiot"?

Actually, there is disagreement as to the order of
songs on early Beatle albums, and even the names of
the albums. The Beatles recorded for Parlophone, a
label of EMI. EMI had a reciprical agreement with
Capitol Records in the U.S. (and Canada, if I'm not
mistaken), so Capitol had the rights to the Beatles'
recordings. At first, they sat on those rights,
convinced that the Beatles would not be popular on
this side of the Atlantic. To hedge their bets,
Capitol allowed certain small labels to produce
singles from some early Beatles songs. These labels
didn't have the manufacturing capacity to crank out
enough copies to make a record a hit, so it was
guaranteed that these recordings would languish.

Then Ed Sullivan made the Beatles a hit, in spite of
Capitol. Suddenly, Capitol wanted to release the
Beatle songs on record, but their agreements with
these little labels prevented them from doing so.
Well, they made albums out of the songs that they
hadn't yet sold to smaller labels, but their albums
had different songs in a different order. They even
gave the albums names that were not EMI's names.
Eventually, they caught up, sort of, releasing an
album of songs that had been sold to smaller labels
after those agreements expired. However, through
_Revolver_, Capitol tried their hardest to stay a bit
off, releasing twelve songs per ablum rather than the
fourteen songs per album on the EMI disks. (All that
changed with _Sgt. Pepper_.) The upshot is that a
U.S. fan of a certain age will say it was on
such-and-such an album, which it was in the U.S., and
a U.K. fan will say it was on a different album.
(John used to joke about that in U.S. concerts,
saying, "This song is off our second Capitol album. .
.third, fourth--I don't know.")

Thanks, though, for mentioning Paul McCartney on his
sixty-fifth birthday. Yes, tonight's game report will
be the annual Beatlemania report.

> Likewise, we might expect the Detroit Tigers
> announcers to know "obvious" things like the last
> Tiger to be voted into the Hall of Fame but I'm not
> sure it's a comment on their intelligence that they
> didn't. Especially in this context which sounds to
> me like a spontaneous, between pitches, on-air chat.
> Nor does it sound like either one was definitively
> saying that Kaline was the last Tiger to go in but
> rather something like, "I think it was Kaline". I
> could be wrong on that last point as I didn't hear
> the broadcast.

I didn't see that particular incident during the
broadcast, but the way that David described it, saying
that Mario later said that indeed Mr. Kaline was the
most recent Tiger to be enshrined, made it sound like
he did or tried to do some research and then gave his
final answer. That was what seemed strange to me. If
you take the time to seem like you are doing some
research, you should do some research. If you don't
do the research, then keep phrasing it such that you
aren't saying that you're certain of that answer. In
plain English, don't fake the research--do it, or
don't pretend to.

[Roger King]

On this topic, I'm sure most listers "across the universe", feel we should
all "come together" on a compromise or just "let it be" and "get back" to
discussing more interesting things. (Sorry, couldn't resist)

In the case of the Kaline vs. Newhouser question, I can see Rod & Mario
saying that Kaline was the most recent Tiger elected in the sense that
Kaline played *after* Newhouser. So, technically, he's the most current
Tiger in the HOF in terms of who has played most recently.

Roger

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Bielawski" <stevebi...@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Tigers List" <tig...@lists.ibl.org>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Mario and Rod are idiots

> --

[David Panian]

And, of course, if it wasn't for the insanely picky writers, the
answer could have been Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, Jack Morris or
maybe even Bill Freehan.

David

[Tony Matt]

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007, David Panian wrote:
> Tony Matt wrote:
>> Besides, are we sure they were intending to discuss the Tiger most
>> recently enshrined and not the most recently active Tiger enshrined?
>
> Not when one of them asked, "I wonder who was the last Tiger to go into
> the Hall of Fame?"

It appears sufficiently ambiguous to me - Newhouser was the
'last...to go', but Kaline was the 'last Tiger'.

TM

[kar...@aol.com]

Paul Carey told you what was happening on the field. He was not an entertainer. He was a reporter. He assumed that you would be entertained by the performance of the players on the field and he was there to describe that performance. Personally, I admire that kind of simplicity in announcers. They don't have to tell jokes or even impart stories. It may not be enough for some. And I can understand that. Personally, now that I watch most games I find that I don't have a lot of use for the announcers. I am concentrating on what is happening on the field most of the time and I could turn the sound down and be just as entertained as I would be by listening to announcers.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Bielawski
To: Tigers List
Sent: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 9:43 am
Subject: Re: Mario and Rod are idiots

[Andrew Christianson]

For what it's worth, the Nationals' announcers tonight are at least the 2nd
ones this year to say something like: Leyland won a championship with the
Marlins in '97 when he first teamed up with Ivan Rodriguez.

The basic problem with mediocre to bad announcers is the same ... they talk
too much. When you talk too much, you tend to say stupid or incorrect
things (at least I do). I observed Ernie's greatness as recently as last
month when occasionally he said... nothing.

Andrew

>From: kar...@aol.com
>To: stevebi...@sbcglobal.net, tig...@lists.ibl.org
>Subject: Re: Mario and Rod are idiots
>Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:13:03 -0400
>
>Paul Carey told you what was happening on the field. He was not an
>entertainer. He was a reporter. He assumed that you would be entertained by
>the performance of the players on the field and he was there to describe
>that performance. Personally, I admire that kind of simplicity in
>announcers. They don't have to tell jokes or� even impart stories. It may
>not be enough for some. And I can understand that. Personally, now that I
>watch most games I find that I don't have a lot of use for the announcers.
>I am concentrating on what is happening on the field most of the time and I
>could turn the sound down and be just as entertained as I would be by
>listening to announcers.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----

>From: Steve Bielawski <stevebi...@sbcglobal.net>
>To: Tigers List <tig...@lists.ibl.org>

>Sent: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 9:43 am
>Subject: Re: Mario and Rod are idiots
>
>
>
>Two quick points for Chris:
>--- Gmrst...@cs.com wrote:
>
> If Rod says one more time that he can't understand
> why Chicago sucks with "their great offense" (does
> he look at stats at all????) I am going to call for
> his public execution!!!
>"Their great offense" can refer to either the

>otential of their hitters or to the current

>erformance of those hitters. And that's exactly what

>he problem is. The White Sox have a bunch of hitters

>ho can do some very good things at the plate, but

>hey just aren't having a good year. Granted, the

>ear when they won the World Series, everybody was

>aving a good year for them, so that wasn't exactly

>ormal. Still, the point is that if the White Sox

>itters were living up to their potential, they would

>e winning more games. (If they hit against other

>eams the way that the White Sox hit against the

>igers, they'd be in great shape.)
>
> Plus, I condemned them for having no personality.
> I think they're awful as announcers.
>What sort of a personality did Paul Carey have? Ernie

>arwell had the "homespun wit" and "expert without a

>ollege degree" sort of personality, and those fit him

>uite well. But what was Paul Carey's personality

>ike? FWIW, I can recall Mr. Harwell adding in to Mr.

>arey's comments now and then (though certainly not to

>he point of taking the spotlight away from his

>artner), but Mr. Carey seemed only to add that

>omeone is warming up or the latest news from

>ut-of-town. I can't even much recall Mr. Carey

>elling stories of him meeting with a player in the

>otel lobby or at breakfast. I'm sure that he told a

>ew of those stories, but they were excedingly bland

>nd just don't stick in my mind. And yet, people

>hought of him as a fine announcer.
>
>

>________________________________________________________________________

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>from AOL at AOL.com.

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[Gmrst...@cs.com]

In a message dated 6/18/2007 11:38:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chri...@hotmail.com writes:

The basic problem with mediocre to bad announcers is the same ... they talk
too much.  When you talk too much, you tend to say stupid or incorrect
things (at least I do).  I observed Ernie's greatness as recently as last
month when occasionally he said... nothing.

I agree, especially on TV, announcers do talk too much.

But there's also talking too little and Jim Price often does that. He's not interesting enough to carry a broadcast when Dan Dickerson is taking his rest and Jim is doing play-by-play.

go tigers
chris

[Gmrst...@cs.com]

In a message dated 6/18/2007 2:58:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dpa...@comcast.net writes:

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Roger King" <pnag...@pnagency.com>

> This kind of reminds me of an interview with Paul McCartney I read recently
> where McCartney was discussing a Beatles song and said "is that song on
> Revolver?".   Now every diehard Beatles fan in the world can tell you the order
> of songs on every album but the guy who actually wrote and recorded the songs
> doesn't even remember.  Is he "an idiot"?
>

No. I'd put that in the same category as a parent not remembering right of the top of their head the ages of their grown children. Sometimes you have to stop and do the math.

And how many songs has McCartney written? Hundreds, right? How many Hall of Famers do the Tigers have? There are eight in the Hall as Tigers. I can see McCartney having to think about which albums some of his songs are on because there are so many, but is it too much to ask someone who has been with the team for more than five years (in Mario's case) and four years (in Rod's case) to know enough about the team's Hall of Famers to know which one was inducted most recently?

David, I don't think we need to even argue Roger's point because it does not compare. Paul McCartney isn't being paid to remember such things. Paul McCartney is not an announcer on television. Paul McCartney did a lot of drugs in the 1960s.

Besides, I was about to argue that ROGER would do a much better job (even though I have never met him) than EITHER Mario or Rod, but since he's defending them so ardently, maybe they should just keep their jobs... ;-)

-chris

[Roger King]

Chris - you can still make that argument.  It'd be fine with me  :)-   (If I got the Tigers job, I'd spend the first week informing the fans about how K's are worse than other outs in the majority of situations :-)

 

RK

----- Original Message -----

From: Gmrst...@cs.com

To: tig...@lists.ibl.org

Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 6:45 AM

Subject: Re: Mario and Rod are idiots

[John Black]

----- Original Message -----

From: Roger King

To: tig...@lists.ibl.org

Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:01 AM

Subject: Re: Mario and Rod are idiots

Chris - you can still make that argument.  It'd be fine with me  :)-   (If I got the Tigers job, I'd spend the first week informing the fans about how K's are worse than other outs in the majority of situations :-)

 

Go get 'em Roger !!!!!

 

JtE

[Gmrst...@cs.com]

In a message dated 6/19/2007 8:05:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pnag...@pnagency.com writes:

Chris - you can still make that argument.  It'd be fine with me  :)-   (If I got the Tigers job, I'd spend the first week informing the fans about how K's are worse than other outs in the majority of situations :-)

Well, then I officially make the argument that you would be so much better, so stop defending Mario and Rod!! ;-) They stink.

Yeah, that would be great but I am not sure Marlon gets to watch the TV broadcasts in California.

go tigers
chris