Tonight's Lineup vs. Kansas City (7/23)

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Peter Welch

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Jul 23, 2026, 6:18:09 PM (7 days ago) Jul 23
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Tonight's lineup in Detroit vs. 31-year-old righty Randy Dobnak (1.93 ERA in 3 games, 1 start).  Dobnak is one of the few pitchers who wears glasses Rick Vaughan-style.
Dobnak was used as a long reliever in his first 2 outings.  He went 4.1 innings as a starter in his previous outing against the Padres, allowing 1 run.

  1. Kevin McGonigle (L) SS
  2. Gleyber Torres (R) 2B
  3. Colt Keith (L) 3B
  4. Riley Greene (L) DH
  5. Dillon Dingler (R) C
  6. Kerry Carpenter (L) RF
  7. Spencer Torkelson (R) 1B
  8. Zach McKinstry (L) LF
  9. James Outman (L) CF

Torres was terrible at 2B the other night vs. the Cubs and had a poor game at the plate after a good game on Monday.  Hinch gave him yesterday off. 
Torres looked like he didn't want to move.   Maybe he should be playing DH right now.

So tired of Outman being in the lineup.  I wish they'd give Malgeri more looks in CF.  Hopefully Baez will be back in a few days, although they'll probably send Malgeri down for Baez and keep Outman.
Outman will be on the roster until they decide to call up Max Clark.

Troy Melton (1.86 ERA in 9 starts) gets the start for the Tigers.  Melton was a bit off with his control in his last start but he still only gave up 1 run in 5.2 IP vs. the Angels.

32-year-old veteran scrub infielder Andrew Velasquez is starting at SS for the Royals for the injured Bobby Witt, Jr.  Look for Velasquez to be annoying.
The Royals have some other potentially annoying players in Lane Thomas, Carter Jensen (who is their catcher and leadoff hitter), Isaac Collins and Nick Loftin, and, of course, Sal Perez is batting cleanup ready to do damage.

The Tigers are running out of games.  They need to beat up on the Royals, but like most of the list I'm not optimistic.

Peter

Mike Coveyou

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Jul 23, 2026, 6:27:02 PM (7 days ago) Jul 23
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I want the Tigers to sweep and my second choice is 3 wins for the Tigers.  But if they are going to revert to something worse, I'd prefer it be a complete collapse than mediocrity.  My reasoning?  I want to see a clear cut path for the trade deadline.

I'm afraid that the Tigers will as the trade deadline nears, be left with a non-zero, but very small chance of making the playoffs, at which point I would suspect that the Tigers will keep Skubal and Mize and we will be asking during this off season why they didn't cash them in for what they could get.

I fervently hope that my pessimism is misplaced.

Mike Coveyou

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Peter Welch

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Jul 23, 2026, 8:55:13 PM (7 days ago) Jul 23
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LOL, Outman with a 3-run homer in the bottom of the 7th against ex-Tiger reliever John Schreiber to give the Tigers a 3-2 lead.
They couldn't score against Dobnak, which is embarrassing but not surprising.

Peter

From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2026 6:18 PM
To: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Tonight's Lineup vs. Kansas City (7/23)
 

Peter Welch

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Jul 23, 2026, 9:33:19 PM (7 days ago) Jul 23
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Good grief, it got scary, but the Tigers hang on to win 4-3.
Finnegan comes in for Sommers with runners at 1st and 2nd and 1 out in the 9th to face long-time Tiger killer Sal Perez, but Perez hits into a 3-6-3 DP to end it.  Nice play by Tork.

Dingler with a clutch 2-out RBI double to score Lee in the bottom of the 8th to give the Tigers the 4-3 lead.

So much for "beating up on the Royals", but the Tigers manage to pull out another 2024-style win.

Peter

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2026 8:55 PM
To: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Tonight's Lineup vs. Kansas City (7/23)
 

Paul Meloche

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Jul 23, 2026, 9:39:38 PM (7 days ago) Jul 23
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Sommers pitched well in a brief stint last night but no way he should be brought in to a one run save situation. Finnegan can be scary but I trust him there way more than Sommers or even Jansen. 

I thought Wagpusak should have been left in to start the 8th but what do I know. 

Still, I’ll take the win. 

Paul M.

On Jul 23, 2026, at 6:33 PM, Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com> wrote:



Peter Welch

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Jul 23, 2026, 9:39:51 PM (7 days ago) Jul 23
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It was a 3-6-1 game-ending double play.  Finnegan got really lucky because he hung a meatball to Perez but Sal rolled over top of it and hit a bouncer to Tork who was closer to 2nd than 1st.  Good quick turn by McGonigle to throw out the ultra-slow Perez by half a step with Finnegan covering 1st base.  Probably every other Royal in the lineup beats that out.  Whew!

Peter

Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2026 9:33 PM

Peter Welch

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Jul 23, 2026, 9:52:16 PM (7 days ago) Jul 23
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Hinch getting desperate.  He really has so few options in high-leverage situations, especially now that Montero is back in the rotation.
Anderson continues to disappoint in higher-leverage situations.  He looked pretty good for a while in long relief and in a couple of starts, but he seems to fall apart in the later innings.  He just makes too many mistake pitches.  Tonight it was on a hanging change-up on a 1-2 pitch to Rojas and a wild pitch.  It's frustrating because Anderson has some of the best "swing and miss" stuff in the Tigers' bullpen.

Sommers got himself into trouble with the 1-out walk in the 9th.  He got a groundball on the next hitter but it went through for a single.

The current bullpen is hanging by a thread.  Vest isn't coming back any time soon.  I wonder if Harris will try to trade for a reliever at the deadline?

Peter

From: Paul Meloche <meloc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2026 9:39 PM
To: Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com>
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John Watkins

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Jul 23, 2026, 10:21:15 PM (7 days ago) Jul 23
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There may be a possible path to 84 wins at best. Whether that means anything is up to CLE and CWS playing at .500 or less the rest of the way.

If Skubal has to be traded,only LAD would 
provide the value in talent.If willing to part with ready pitching to slot in rotation. 

Hinch has some momentum. Have to win the division games. Been unlucky, expected wins put us right at the top of division. 
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Roger King

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Jul 23, 2026, 10:28:41 PM (7 days ago) Jul 23
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It’s very difficult to imagine the Tigers going very far with with this pen.  I don’t consider any reliever truly reliable at the moment except maybe Waguespack.  I mean, some of them like Finnegan can get the job done on many nights but not in a way you need from a truly competitive team.  

I actually thought it was going to be a potential strength of the team this year.  We had “3 closers” to start the season! 

Peter Welch

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Jul 23, 2026, 11:05:27 PM (6 days ago) Jul 23
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I've seen those expected win and Pythogorean numbers that show the Tigers with a better record than what they've actually produced.
There's been some bad luck involved, but a big part of that has been the blown late-inning leads, poor hitting with RISP, and poor record in close games.  Untimely bad defense has contributed as well.

Take out the disastrous May (6-22, .214) and the Tigers are 43-32 (.573).  They've been doing pretty well apart from that horrible stretch.

If the Tigers went, say, 10-18 in May, they'd be at .500 and right in the thick of things.  6-22 was brutal.  

Yes, the Tigers were hammered with injuries in May, but I would argue that Hinch's managing was terrible in May and the team didn't need to be 6-22 even with the injuries.  (And I still think Hinch has some positives as a manager, but his lineup choices and stubbornness in May were so frustrating).

I think ultimately May will cost the team the playoffs.  Too much of a hole to overcome.   I'm still holding out hope for another 2024, though.

Peter

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Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2026 10:21 PM

Peter Welch

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Jul 23, 2026, 11:16:35 PM (6 days ago) Jul 23
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I didn't see Vest collapsing, but he's been injured most of the season, even when he was pitching.  He's pitched a lot the last 2 years and probably paid the price.

I'm not surprised about Jansen.  He's old and at the end of his career.  You take a big risk signing an old closer.  The Tigers have done it before and failed.

Finnegan pitched well for us last year until he got hurt toward the end of the season.  He hasn't been the same since the injury.  His control has been way off this year.

Holton has been ok, but not quite as reliable as the last 3 years.

Losing Brant Hurter has also hurt the pen.

DeJesus was pitching better but he got sent down to Toledo in a numbers game.

Burch Smith was doing ok, but he got hurt.  He's doing a rehab assignment so he might be back soon.

Waguespack has done ok for a scrap-heap pickup, although I'm not sure I'd trust him in higher-leverage situations.

Anderson is a frustrating disappointment.  Good stuff, too many mistakes.

Sommers has some good stuff, but is too wild.

The Tigers' best reliever is probably Montero, but he's mostly a starter.  ;-) 

I wonder if Jobe will go the bullpen when he gets activated.  They might need him in the pen more than in the rotation.

Peter
From: Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2026 10:28 PM

Mike Coveyou

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Jul 23, 2026, 11:57:38 PM (6 days ago) Jul 23
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My immediate reaction when Jansen's signing was announced was despair.  I thought we've been here before: think Troy Percival or Joe Nathan.  (And I do know that Jansen's career far exceeds either of them.)

I'll be happy to see Jansen achieve his 500th save, although he were pursuing this somewhere else.

Mike Coveyou

Peter Welch

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Jul 24, 2026, 12:34:53 AM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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Wasn't K-Rod kind of at the end of his career when the Tigers signed him?
I just checked.  He did save 44 games for the Tigers in 2016 after they signed him at age 34.
In 2017 he had a 7.82 ERA with 7 saves at age 35 and he never pitched in the majors again after that.
So he did have one decent year before fading out quickly.
K-Rod finished up with 437 career saves.

The other bad habit the Tigers had in the past was drafting closers in the 1st round:  Think Matt Anderson and Ryan Perry.  Woof!

We've had kind of a roller coaster ride of closers over the years.  

Peter
From: Mike Coveyou <mcov...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2026 11:57 PM
Subject: Tigers Penchant for End of Career Closers
 

Peter Welch

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Jul 24, 2026, 12:41:41 AM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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I'm hoping Jansen gets traded at the deadline, even if it's just for cash.
Make Montero closer (and maybe Jobe) for the rest of the season.
I'm not sure Vest will be back.  He's eligible to come off the 60-day IL on August 27.  He's recovering from a stress fracture in his elbow.  That seems like it would be something that shuts him down for the season.

Peter
From: Mike Coveyou <mcov...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2026 11:57 PM
Subject: Tigers Penchant for End of Career Closers

Paul Meloche

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Jul 24, 2026, 11:01:51 AM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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Damn - it's only been ten years and I didn't remember K-Rod having that one good season for us at all. I think of him like I do Nathan and Percival.

Roger King

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Jul 24, 2026, 11:15:21 AM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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It’s funny how it goes back to even the 1984 champions where the Tigers just never have a classic traditional closer who comes in and just fires away for 3 outs. 

Willie Hernandez of course had an amazing 1984 season but he was not that kind of fireballler I’m talking about. I guess Aurelio Lopez was more in that mold, especially given the nickname Senor Smoke. 

Then we moved on to Mike Henneman who was often quite effective and a fave of mine, but certainly not that kind of lights out, firing heat kind of guy.  Not going to go through all the closers, but the notable ones like Todd Jones and Jose Valverde, despite having some pretty solid years, we’re not in this mold at all.

And then, yeah, when we have signed a more traditional closer, it is almost always at the tail end of their careers, like others have said.  K-Rod, Nathan, Urbina, Soros, Percival, Jansen, The list goes on.

There were brief moments when we did have more of a fireballer type like Rodney, Soto, Lange and even Shane Greene for a season. But we traded them all because they weren’t consistent enough.

The one name that stands out… who could’ve been a contender as Brando would say… was Joel Zumaya. What a great 2006 season he had as a set up man. He was clearly closer material but sadly, kind of ended up like Fidrych with one great season and then injuries derailed the career from there.


Roger King
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Peter Welch

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Jul 24, 2026, 11:37:56 AM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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Another washed-up closer at the end of his career the Tigers signed was Jose Mesa in 2007 at age 41.  LOL!

Valverde had that one season in 2011 when he was 49/49 in saves and I still never trusted him.  ;-)
Valverde was always a roller coaster in his other seasons with the Tigers.  He was awful in post-season, especially in 2012.  I remember fans were cursing Jim Leyland for bringing in Valverde.

Rodney had 37 saves in 2009 at age 32 but still had a 4.40 ERA and walked 5 batters per 9.   No wonder the Tigers declined to re-sign him (he signed as a free agent with the Angels).
It's remarkable that Rodney was still pitching in the majors 10 years later at age 42.

The Tigers traded RHP Francisco Cordero to Texas in 2000 (as part of the infamous Juan Gonzalez trade) after his rookie season.  Cordero went on to have some good seasons as a closer for Texas, Milwaukee and Cincinnati.
I remember being annoyed at that (and, of course, I was always annoyed we traded away Frank Catalanotto in that Gonzalez deal).

Too bad Zumaya flamed out quickly with injuries.  He had electric stuff.

Remember when Bruce "101-mph fastball" Rondon was the "closer of the future"?  LOL!

Peter
From: Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2026 11:15 AM
To: Paul Meloche <meloc...@gmail.com>
Cc: Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com>; detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Tigers Penchant for End of Career Closers
 

Peter Welch

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Jul 24, 2026, 11:47:05 AM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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And, of course, before Hernadez, John Hiller was known for multi-inning saves with the Tigers.   He was the classic old-school "fireman" reliever.

Peter
From: Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>

Sent: Friday, July 24, 2026 11:15 AM
To: Paul Meloche <meloc...@gmail.com>
Cc: Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com>; detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Tigers Penchant for End of Career Closers
 

Michael W

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Jul 24, 2026, 12:41:55 PM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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One way to think about the Tigers’ bad luck is that they are 10th in the AL in runs scored, and 4th in fewest runs allowed, so you might think they would be around 7th in wins.  But they are 11th.

Michael 

Roger King

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Jul 24, 2026, 1:34:55 PM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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It is funny how the schedule has lined things up perfectly for the Tigers. We were thinking Harris would have a tough decision at the trade deadline but they’ve got 6 more home games leading right up to the trade deadline, where they actually can go over .500 if they win them all or get close if they win the majority.  That kind of successful home stand would undoubtedly gain them at least a couple of games in the standings and they’re only 6 back as it stands now. 

In that scenario, Harris will have justification for being a buyer or at least not trading away a bunch of good players and waving the white flag on the season.

If they somehow botch this home stand from here, then I think it’s pretty clear for Harris as well: they should be sellers.

Roger King
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Tapu Shaikh

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Jul 24, 2026, 5:00:43 PM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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One closer that I didn't notice getting mentioned was Joakim Soria.  My recollection, without looking it up, was that he was bad the partial season after we acquired him, and was really good for the fraction of the season after that; I think we traded him.  For 4 or so months, I was as comfortable as I've been for a long time when we had a lead in the 9th.

-Tapu

Roger King

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Jul 24, 2026, 5:08:30 PM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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I actually did mention him in my post below but I see auto-correct changed it to Soros (cue the George Soros conspiracists :-)

Peter Welch

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Jul 24, 2026, 8:22:57 PM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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Brad Ausmus didn't know how to use Soria after they acquired him from the Rangers on July 23, 2014.  Soria had been closer for the Rangers (2.70 ERA and 17 saves with and impressive 42 Ks and only 4 walks in 33.1 IP), but Ausmus used him as a set-up guy and Soria struggled (4.91 ERA and only 1 save in 13 appearances with the Tigers).  The Tigers had Joe Nathan as closer that year and Joba Chamberlain as the top set-up guy when they acquired Soria.    Ausmus's managing was horrendous.

The Tigers traded righty reliever and former 2013 1st-round pick Corey Knebel (along with another pitching prospect, righty Jake Thompson) to the Rangers for Soria.

You can add Knebel to the list of closers drafted in the 1st round by the Tigers (Matt Anderson, Ryan Perry and Corey Knebel).  Knebel was a talented pitcher and showed some promise later with the Brewers and Dodgers but arm injuries eventually killed his career.

Soria was the Tigers' closer in 2015 and pitched much better for the Tigers that season (2.85 ERA, 23 saves).  He was traded to the Pirates for then SS prospect JaCoby Jones at the trade deadline on July 30, 2015.  Soria pitched for 6 more seasons in the majors after that for the Pirates, Royals, White Sox, Brewers, A's, D-Backs and Blue Jays.
Jones became a Roger King favorite but never really did much and had a penchant for getting beaned by pitches.


Peter

From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Tapu Shaikh <taput...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2026 5:00 PM
To: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Tigers Penchant for End of Career Closers
 

Mike Coveyou

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Jul 24, 2026, 9:17:02 PM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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My recollection is that Zumaya was expected to be the closer eventually, but he was obsessed with throwing as hard as he could (often as fast as the pitchers with the hardest fastballs today), which likely led to his persistent arm troubles.

Mike Coveyou

Sean Sweda

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Jul 24, 2026, 9:21:22 PM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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Guitar Hero!

Sean
< via mobile >

On Jul 24, 2026, at 9:17 PM, Mike Coveyou <mcov...@gmail.com> wrote:



Paul Meloche

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Jul 24, 2026, 9:22:39 PM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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Well, that and playing video games. Depending on which story you choose to believe.  

Paul M.

On Jul 24, 2026, at 6:17 PM, Mike Coveyou <mcov...@gmail.com> wrote:



Roger King

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Jul 24, 2026, 9:27:36 PM (6 days ago) Jul 24
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Well, I was always ready to rev up the Jacoby Jones bandwagon but I understood why others never fully leapt on board!

This remains my favourite Jones highlight. When he scored from *second* on a wild pitch :-)



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