JV’s latest start

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Roger King

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Jul 9, 2025, 8:57:32 PMJul 9
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JV falls to 0-7 in a San Francisco uniform. I did have to laugh at this headline, given the score. True, he did not give up most of the runs, but still…



Michael Borshuk

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Jul 9, 2025, 9:08:26 PMJul 9
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Wish we'd signed him instead of Cobb. He'd had seven wins!

On Wed, Jul 9, 2025, 8:57 PM Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com> wrote:
JV falls to 0-7 in a San Francisco uniform. I did have to laugh at this headline, given the score. True, he did not give up most of the runs, but still…



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Peter Welch

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Jul 10, 2025, 9:02:02 AMJul 10
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So much for JV's quest to win 300 games (it was a longshot anyway).  

Peter
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Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 8:57 PM
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Subject: JV’s latest start
 
JV falls to 0-7 in a San Francisco uniform. I did have to laugh at this headline, given the score. True, he did not give up most of the runs, but still…



Roger King

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Jul 10, 2025, 9:15:53 AMJul 10
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Well, San Fran is 8 games above .500 so we’re not talking about JV just getting stuck with a bad team.  And you have to wonder how long they’ll stick with him as they contend for a wildcard spot.

Peter Welch

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Jul 10, 2025, 9:21:31 AMJul 10
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Even the current version of JV still would have been a better signing than Alex Cobb.

Peter
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2025 9:15 AM
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Subject: Re: JV’s latest start
 

David Panian

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Jul 10, 2025, 10:03:37 AMJul 10
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The Giants have scored two or fewer runs in eight of his 15 starts and three runs in two others. It's tough to win games with that level of run support, even at peak JV. However, his WHIP is the worst of his career at 1.422. His career worst for a season when he qualified for the ERA title was 2014 at 1.398. He's walking more batters than normal at 3.1 per nine innings and giving up more "barrels," according to Statcast, at a rate greater than any of his seasons in the Statcast era, which goes back to 2015.

I seem to recall the Tigers offense would fall asleep in several  of his starts, too, especially in 2008-11, almost like the batters subconsciously took those days off thinking they didn't have to try as hard to score runs because they expected JV to limit the other team to just a handful of hits.

If the Giants were bad, I'd think he'd be a trade target for contenders who think they could score runs for him and maybe get better control through a different pitch mix. The Giants probably will keep him, though, because they figure the scoring will happen eventually.

He is the kind of guy the Tigers might try to acquire — a veteran who can eat innings, keep you in games and who has an affordable contract and won't cost a premium prospect.

David


Paul Meloche

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Jul 10, 2025, 11:02:50 AMJul 10
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I watch a lot of Giants baseball. From the eye test, JV has seemed like a decent 5th starter, and the stats David posted seem to bear that out.

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Peter Welch

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Jul 10, 2025, 2:23:40 PMJul 10
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From a nostalgia perspective, acquiring JV would be fun.  From a baseball perspective, Montero and SGL are probably better (or at least similar to current JV) as a #5 starter.
Nevertheless, I wouldn't object if the Tigers traded for JV for the stretch run, but I wonder who the Giants would ask far in return?  JV is close to retirement so I wouldn't want to give up much.  I doubt the Giants would take somebody like Matt Manning for him.  They'd want a better prospect.

It could be like acquiring Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz (who was a struggling A-ball pitcher in the Tigers' system at the time).   However, the Tigers this year don't need Verlander as much as the '87 Tigers needed Alexander (the Tigers don't make the playoffs in '87 without Alexander, this year's Tigers are making the playoffs whether they have JV or not).  Hate to give up another Smoltz for 2 months of JV.

Given that the Tigers gave Alex Cobb $15 million to delay retirement and throw a few innings in the minors, and JV signed for the same amount, they might as well have signed JV to begin with before this season.

Peter
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Roger King

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Jul 10, 2025, 2:34:06 PMJul 10
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But of course as mentioned, the Giants are in a playoff chase themselves so they'd presumably only trade JV if he becomes even less effective.  In that scenario, the Tigers might not be interested.  And if JV bounces back a bit in the next couple of weeks, the Giants likely keep him for the stretch run.  

And if they did decide to trade him, presumably they would want someone to help the team *now* (in the playoff hunt) - not a prospect or Matt Manning type.


Peter Welch

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Jul 10, 2025, 2:47:49 PMJul 10
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Right, very unlikely the Giants trade JV at this point since he’s a serviceable #5 starter for them and they in the playoff race.

Unless they’ve got some hotshot pitching prospect they want to call up, JV is unlikely to be going anywhere.

Peter 

On Jul 10, 2025, at 2:34 PM, Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com> wrote:


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Paul Meloche

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Jul 10, 2025, 11:14:47 PMJul 10
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The Giants are high on SP prospect Carson Whisenhunt who’s expected to debut sometime this year. 

That being said, I don’t think they expect him to pitch them to a playoff spot. They also have struggling youngster Hayden Birdsong in the rotation, as well as Landon Roupp. He’s pitched well but there are workload concerns with him. 

Long winded way of saying I don’t think they’re looking to move Verlander at the deadline. 

Paul M.

On Jul 10, 2025, at 11:47 AM, Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 Right, very unlikely the Giants trade JV at this point since he’s a serviceable #5 starter for them and they in the playoff race.

Bradley Smith

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Jul 11, 2025, 4:47:38 PMJul 11
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JV is a great player and a surefire HoFer. He should retire now. Not at the end of the season. Now. He's not going to get anywhere near 300 wins, and he's simply destroying his ERA, ERA+, and WHIP numbers, not to mention the memories of how good he once was--the things people 25 years from now will look back to.

 

Brad

 

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Roger King

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Jul 18, 2025, 10:49:01 PMJul 18
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JV started tonight here in Toronto.  He didn’t make it out of the 3rd inning.  Gave up 4 runs on 9 hits and 0 K’s.  He falls to 0-8. 

I doubt JV will take Brad‘s advice below and bow out himself but as I said in one of the replies down below, how long before the Giants make the decision for him? 


Peter Welch

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Jul 18, 2025, 11:20:17 PMJul 18
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JV will probably be left off the post-season roster by the Giants (assuming they make it).

Peter
From: Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
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Roger King

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Jul 18, 2025, 11:26:03 PMJul 18
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Never mind the postseason roster, how does JV even stay on the roster the rest of the season at this rate?


Paul Meloche

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Jul 19, 2025, 12:30:39 PMJul 19
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I'm assuming the Giants will be looking for SP help at the deadline. Logan Webb and Robbie Ray have been very good but there are definitely questions in the SF rotation after those two.

Here's what I posted nine days ago. From what I'm reading/hearing in the Bay Area media nothing has changed.

"The Giants are high on SP prospect Carson Whisenhunt who’s expected to debut sometime this year. 

That being said, I don’t think they expect him to pitch them to a playoff spot. They also have struggling youngster Hayden Birdsong in the rotation, as well as Landon Roupp. He’s pitched well but there are workload concerns with him. 

Long winded way of saying I don’t think they’re looking to move Verlander at the deadline." 


And yes, since I posted this I fully expect JV to be released sometime this week. lol


Paul M.

On Jul 18, 2025, at 8:26 PM, Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com> wrote:



Roger King

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Jul 19, 2025, 12:44:00 PMJul 19
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Ha!  

I read the game recap on the Giants MLB page today and both the manager and his teammates were talking like they want to give Verlander more time and are cheering for him to rebound.

But this was also on the page recap:

“Verlander gave up four runs on a season-high-matching nine hits over 2 2/3 innings, leaving him 0-8 with a 4.99 ERA on the season. He remains winless through his first 16 starts of the year, the longest single-season winless streak by a Giants starting pitcher in franchise history.”

The three-time Cy Young winner topped out at 97 mph with his four-seam fastball, but he generated only five total swinging strikes and finished with no strikeouts for only the seventh time in his 20-year career (including the postseason).”

Peter Welch

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Jul 19, 2025, 2:46:10 PMJul 19
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JV is kind of a run-of-the-mill #5 starter at this point. 
Yeah, the Giants are probably in the market for another starter.  Roupp has been pretty good as their #3 starter, but like you said, he might be on limited innings.  He was mostly a reliever last year as a rookie until becoming a full-time starter this year.  Birdsong has been a disappointment for them since he moved into the rotation, but he's only 23.  He's still a decent prospect but has struggled with consistency.  I'd trade Flaherty to the Giants for him, though.  The Tigers' pitching gurus could probably help Birdsong a lot.

Peter
From: Paul Meloche <meloc...@gmail.com>
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Michael W

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Jul 19, 2025, 4:04:23 PMJul 19
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> how does JV even stay on the roster the rest of the season at this rate?

4.99 sounds pretty bad compared to what we're accustomed to from JV, but there are 20 pitchers with more than 70 innings (JV has 79) and a higher ERA. All of them are starters.  So he's in the bottom tier of starters, but still a major league starter.  He's credited with 0.6 WAR.

I counted 5 teams with two of the twenty pitchers worse than JV.  There are still teams for whom he'd a be an upgrade.

Michael

Peter Welch

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Jul 19, 2025, 5:32:49 PMJul 19
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Yeah, JV is basically your standard #5 starter.

Peter

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Roger King

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Jul 19, 2025, 6:07:36 PMJul 19
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Yes, of course there are teams with pitchers who have worse numbers but my point is the Giants are contending for a wildcard spot so again I wonder how long they will give him to right the ship.  

Or at least how long they will keep him in the regular rotation. Maybe if he doesn’t rebound in the next start or two, they try him in the pen?


Peter Welch

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Jul 26, 2025, 3:50:58 PMJul 26
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Giants will definitely be looking for starting pitching help now that Roupp just went on the IL with elbow pain (uh-oh).

Peter

From: Paul Meloche <meloc...@gmail.com>
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Roger King

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Jul 26, 2025, 3:57:18 PMJul 26
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Verlander finally got that first win of the season the other day by the way, gutting out 5 innings vs Atlanta.
 



David Panian

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Jul 30, 2025, 11:52:06 PMJul 30
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San Francisco apparently is open to trading Verlander, according to MLB Network reporter JP Morosi:

https://x.com/jonmorosi/status/1950663858319770009

"Verlander is on an expiring contract; out of respect to the future Hall of Famer, the Giants are open to working out a deal if it makes sense for Verlander and the organization."

David

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Peter Welch

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Jul 31, 2025, 7:30:14 AMJul 31
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Giants are also reportedly shopping hard-throwing righty reliever Camilo Doval.  Scott Harris might have some interest there.

I don't see the Tigers being interested in Verlander now that they've got Paddack as the #5 starter.

Peter

Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2025 11:51 PM

Roger King

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Aug 11, 2025, 11:18:32 AMAug 11
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Yesterday, JV became only the 10th pitcher in history to record 3500 K’s.  Problem is he gave up 5 runs and 11 hits in 5 innings and fell to 1-9 on the season.

Giants are 4 games out of a wild card spot. 

Michael W

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Aug 11, 2025, 5:07:59 PMAug 11
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It’s impressive to make the top ten in anything, and strikeouts is a marquee stat.  Congratulations JV!  

Six more to catch Walter Johnson for ninth.  But Max Scherzer is right behind him.

Michael 

Roger King

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Sep 1, 2025, 8:57:37 AM (7 days ago) Sep 1
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Verlander got his 3rd win of the season yesterday as he struck out 10 in 5 innings…on 121 pitches.  Crazy! 


Paul Meloche

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Sep 1, 2025, 12:13:38 PM (7 days ago) Sep 1
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Pitch count has been an issue at times for JV this season. I haven't done a deep dive into the stats, but I assume at least part of it is that he doesn't get as many swings and misses as he used to as the fastball velocity doesn't regularly hit 98-99 anymore. Certainly understandable being that he's in his 40s. :)

As many have mentioned, Verlander hasn't been great this season but he's been a decent 5th starter; his record would be a little better with better run support. He's had a better season than Maeda, Paddack, and of course Cobb.

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Peter Welch

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Sep 1, 2025, 4:45:04 PM (7 days ago) Sep 1
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Verlander has a 3.60 ERA in 9 starts since the All-Star break.  
Alex Cobb hasn't thrown a pitch for the Tigers and probably never will.  
Charlie Morton has a 6.06 ERA in 9 starts since the All-Star break.

They are all being paid $15 million this year.

I wonder if Harris even inquired with the Giants about Verlander at the deadeline.

Peter
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