Kent in HOF, Lou not even on ballot

[Mike Coveyou]

This doubly disrespects Whitaker.  His career WAR was 20 points higher than Kent's.  Kent had a lot more HR's and more hits, but was always considered a very poor defensive 2B.  Kent should not have been on the ballot if the Contemporary Era Committee, much less inducted into the Hall.

Bobby Grich should have been on the ballot ahead of Kent, even though he's not a good candidate for the Hall, either.

I occasionally see comments that the Hall of Fame criteria are watered down (Harold Baines' induction ramped up this discussion), which is becoming increasingly obvious.  But the latest decision doubles up on this trend...a 2B who was a defensive liability (at least in the view of contemporary accounts while he was playing) and whose hitting performance would not merit consideration absent playing at a key defensive position is the newest inductee.

End of rant.

Mike Coveyou

[Peter Welch]

Booooooooooooooooo!

Peter

---

From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mike Coveyou <mcov...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 10:16 AM
To: Tigers List <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Kent in HOF, Lou not even on ballot

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Detroit Tigers e-mail list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to detroit-tiger...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/CAFWdUwetMWkk7ChQn%2BeeF5X5F%2BegADoqk19bwHLvJdNtozsKpQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Roger King]

And it is now officially absurd that they still refuse to let Clemens or Bonds in the Hall. They backed themselves into a corner with a strict steroid stance that has lasted decades and now can’t find an offramp. 

I can understand borderline players who then went on to have a couple of outliers years because of steroid use, but Clemens and Bonds were two of the best players of their era if not all time. Come on.

Roger King
El Presidente
PN Agency – www.pnagency.com
Ethnic Voice Talent –www.ethnicvoicetalent.com
(416) 515-7195

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/PH3PPF7B3FDDB294D60C4AE2D13AF1EDAC29AA2A%40PH3PPF7B3FDDB29.namprd19.prod.outlook.com.

[Michael W]

This has gone from sad and frustrating to just weird.  Why Kent and not Whitaker, I could not make rational argument.  The only thing is perhaps they are completely discrediting defensive stats and reputation.  

Grich should also be in, ahead of Kent and just in general.  

It’s funny to use Harold Baines as the example of lowering HoF standards.  On this list there’s a frequently mentioned player who is probably more exemplary of that.  No, it’s not Dave Steib.

Michael 

[Roger King]

I've said 1000 times on the list that if Tram & Whitaker retired at the same time, they'd likely both be in.  But Tram played that extra crappy year in 1996 while Lou retired after 1995 which meant Lou appeared before Tram and didn't get the required 5% to stay on the ballot after that.

There's also the issue of Whitaker being kind of a distant personality.  Not the kind of guy to "work the room" with the sportswriters etc.  Tram was more affable.  This probably doesn't matter much now with the voters but I think it did back when Lou first appeared on the ballot when many of the writers were more old school types who certainly didn't know modern day analytics the way they do now.

Have also told the story before of my email exchange with former Detroit sports writer Jerry Green who said he didn't vote for Lou 'because he's not a first ballot of famer".  But he said he would vote for him in subsequent years.  I had to inform him he wouldn't get the chance as he didn't get that 5%.  If a Detroit sportswriter isn't championing Lou, who is?

Not sure why Lou couldn't make it with the Veterans Committee though, which included some of his player peers I believe.  

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Detroit Tigers e-mail list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to detroit-tiger...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/a9185398-c745-4410-8f86-b710941b9544n%40googlegroups.com.

[Mike Coveyou]

Michael,

I didn't mean to suggest Baines as an exemplar of undeserving HOFers (he is clearly not the worst choice for induction into the HOF) only that his selection ignited an uptick in commentary about declining standards for HOF membership.

Mike Coveyou

--

[Peter Welch]

The election of Lloyd Waner to the Hall in 1967 kind of belies the Hall ever having any standards.

Peter

---

From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Michael W <miw...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 11:41 AM
To: Detroit Tigers e-mail list <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Kent in HOF, Lou not even on ballot

 

--

[lore724]

And Kent was a Bonds teammate for 5 years when Barry was juicing. Kent hit the most home runs during these seasons. Coincidence?

Dave

On Dec 8, 2025, at 11:41, Michael W <miw...@gmail.com> wrote:

This has gone from sad and frustrating to just weird.  Why Kent and not Whitaker, I could not make rational argument.  The only thing is perhaps they are completely discrediting defensive stats and reputation.  

--

[Peter Welch]

I know this is cliche, but Whitaker is in the Hall if he had played for the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc.

Peter

---

From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 12:00 PM
To: Michael W <miw...@gmail.com>
Cc: Detroit Tigers e-mail list <detroit...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: Kent in HOF, Lou not even on ballot

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/CAG8ixx2jysYoV1y-Et_sF276Og6zXZcLi_8GdaTUymhu%3D%2BYmxA%40mail.gmail.com.

[lore724]

https://www.whitakerbelongs.com/

Dave

On Dec 8, 2025, at 12:01, Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com> wrote:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/CAG8ixx2jysYoV1y-Et_sF276Og6zXZcLi_8GdaTUymhu%3D%2BYmxA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Peter Welch]

Wasn't Kent considered kind of a jerk by sportswriters?

If they're going to ignore Whitaker because he was kind of aloof with the media, then why pick Kent?

Bonds and Clemens should be in the Hall even with the PED stuff, but they are colossal a-holes which doesn't help their case with Hall voters and media.

Peter

---

From: 'lore724' via Detroit Tigers e-mail list <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 12:22 PM
To: Michael W <miw...@gmail.com>
Cc: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: Kent in HOF, Lou not even on ballot

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/6C34DFA4-2890-4135-A23B-E158D1841D74%40aol.com.

[Peter Welch]

Of course, Kent was juicing.

Pete

---

From: 'lore724' via Detroit Tigers e-mail list <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 12:22 PM
To: Michael W <miw...@gmail.com>
Cc: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Kent in HOF, Lou not even on ballot

 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/6C34DFA4-2890-4135-A23B-E158D1841D74%40aol.com.

[Rob Hawks]

On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 9:29 AM Peter wrote:

Of course, Kent was juicing.

and also wrote:

Wasn't Kent considered kind of a jerk by sportswriters?

No, Kent wasn't juicing and no he wasn't considered kind of a jerk by sportswriters. On both counts, he was naturally gifted.

rob

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/PH3PPF7B3FDDB29DD6DB8DF41A0594ECF259AA2A%40PH3PPF7B3FDDB29.namprd19.prod.outlook.com.

[Peter Welch]

I'm not hugely against Kent making it, but Whitaker > Kent.

Bobby Grich was massively underrated and deserves to be in as well.  

But I also think Darrell Evans and Dwight Evans should be in.  Defense is vastly underappreciated by voters and they overrate batting average and underrate OBA and drawing walks.

Peter

---

From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Michael W <miw...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 11:41 AM
To: Detroit Tigers e-mail list <detroit...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: Kent in HOF, Lou not even on ballot

--

[Peter Welch]

LOL, yep, Kent should be first ballot in the baseball a-Hole HOF.

Peter

---

From: Rob Hawks <rob....@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 12:33 PM
To: Peter Welch <pw...@hotmail.com>

[Paul Meloche]

Whitaker was also still very productive right up until the end. Trammell was terrible in his last season (and not great for the two before that), but Whitaker despite having injuries in '94 and '95 was still a good player.

He should be in, especially considering some of the others who have been voted in, but in theory he could have put up a couple more decent years and made the career stats undeniable.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/CAG8ixx2jysYoV1y-Et_sF276Og6zXZcLi_8GdaTUymhu%3D%2BYmxA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Peter Welch]

Whitaker had a .890 OPS with a .518 SLG in his final season at age 38 in 1995.  He was pretty much a part-time platoon player against righties at that point, but he could still mash.

Whitaker actually became a better hitter as he got older (especially his power got better).  Lou learned how to take full advantage of the short porch in RF in Tiger Stadium.

If Lou hadn't decided to retire after 1995 he probably could have still been a productive platoon player for a couple more years.

Whitaker was also an above-average fielder at 2B into his mid-30s.  His defensive numbers only started to decline after age 36.

Trammell declined much more than Whitaker as he got older, plus Trammell was always more injury-prone than Whitaker.

It was always as travesty that Trammell and Whitaker didn't go into the HOF together.  They were always tied together as an all-time great double-play combo.  It would have been logical and just that they went into the Hall together.  Stupid media, especially Detroit media and their prejudice against Whitaker.

Peter

---

From: detroit...@googlegroups.com <detroit...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Paul Meloche <meloc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 1:48 PM
To: Roger King <pnag...@pnagency.com>
Cc: Michael W <miw...@gmail.com>; Detroit Tigers e-mail list <detroit...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: Kent in HOF, Lou not even on ballot

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/CAM0OySp8nTTMtEqKh42eiY6zzCzoSXJwvEd_7dQbCicoBp2-Cg%40mail.gmail.com.

[David Panian]

One thing I noticed in looking back at who has been on the recent veterans committees is that while the media members and Hall of Famers have changed from time to time, the one constant has been Steve Hirdt of the Elias Sports Bureau. He’s the historian on the committee. I wonder if he has some warped sense of who he thinks should be in the Hall and maybe the other committee members give his input too much weight.

I’d rather have Jay Jaffe in the historian role.

David

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/PH3PPF7B3FDDB2905E3A1B55FB83AE6A4329AA2A%40PH3PPF7B3FDDB29.namprd19.prod.outlook.com.

[Rob Hawks]

Commentary on Kent's election: https://youtube.com/shorts/3qv12jsjr90?si=JGtI85-xL16Q9uqF

I've come to like this guy's Youtube channel, he has some really good posts on sports in general, and often about baseball.

rob

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/detroit-tigers/CA%2BUDaV0aPdzuf5ZKC7QEx64wtc38C8uPdPA_Goisc8w0NZHmmw%40mail.gmail.com.