HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

[GOUTAM CHATTERJEE]

Understanding Hindu Unity and converting it into organization

-         Swami Vigyananand

Jt. General Secretary, Vishva Hindu Parishad

 

There is a general impression among Hindus that Hindu society is not a united society. Once we understand the nature of Hindu society we find Hindu society is a more united society than any other society. Generally people mis-understand unity and organization as one. In the real term Hindu society is a united society but not organized one.

 

Hindu unity is explained in the following lines:

 

There are two main schools of Hindu thought and practice in Bharat.

1. Brahman parampara, which is known as Pravriti marg or Karma yoga, and the other

2. Shraman parampara known as Nivriti marg or Shankhya Yoga or Jnan Marg

 

Bhagwan Sri Krishna said in the Bhagwad Gita –

 

“Lokesmin dwividhaa nishthaa puraa proktaa mayaanagha,

Jnaanayogena Saankhyaanaam Karmayogena Yoginaam.”

- Chapter III, Sloka 3

 

In the beginning of creation two fold path of devotion was given by me to this world. The path of knowledge i.e. Jnan Yoga or Sankhya Yoga and the path of action i.e. Karma yoga School of Sankhya Yoga is known as Jnan yoga (Nivriti Marg) - that is Shraman parampara. School of Karma yoga i.e. Pravraiti marg is known as Brahman parampara.

These are two major philosophical and spiritual schools.

“Saankhyayogi Prithag Baalaah Pravadanti Na Panditaah,

Ekamapyaasthitah Samyagubhayorvindate Phalam.

Yat Saankhye Praapyate Sthaanam Tadyogairapi Gamyate,

Ekam Saankhyam Cha Yogam Cha Yah Pashyati Sa Pashyati.”

 

The ignorant, not the wise, speak of knowledge and performance of action, as distinct. He who truly lives in one, gains the fruits of both. Attainment as reached by the Jnanis is also reached by the Karma-yogis. He who sees knowledge and performance of actions as one alone attains.

 

Brahman parampara developed as wide and various. Shraman parampara which was once wide and various shrink and confined to two main schools i.e. Jain & Bouddh parampara.

 

These two major schools have six schools (Shada Darshan) in each
Philosophical Group

 

Nityavadi (Eternalist) Darshan - six schools

 

Shankhya darshan - by - Maharshi Kapil Muni, Yoga darshan - by - Maharshi Patanjali, Nyaya darshan - by - Maharshi Gautam Vaisheshika darshan - by Maharshi Kanada Mimansa darshan (Purva Mimansa)- by - Maharshi Jaimini Vedanta darshan (Uttara Mimansa) -by - Maharshi Veda Vyasa

 

Buddhist Scholar wrote in Bauddha Siddhantasar - Na Vayam Nastika Vayamtu Astitwam Nasti Iti Brumah i.e. We are not Nastika (those who do not believe in God), actually we do not believe in eternity of this world. Therefore these are actually known as Anityawadi darshan not Nastika darshan.

 

Anityawadi (Non Eternalist) darshan – six schools Four schools of Buddhist philosophy Sautantrik and vaibashik, (Theravada parampara) Madhyamik (Sunyatavad) and yogachara (Vijnanvad) (Mahayan Parampara)

 

One school of Jain philosophy Anekantvada (Syadvad) & Brahaspati Darshan (Charvak darshan) Great Jain scholar Haribhadra Suri combined all twelve darshans both eternalist and non-eternalist in one group of six darshan (Shada Darshan) given in the following sloka

 

Bauddham Nnaiyaayikam Saankhyam Jainam Vaisheshikam Tathaa,

Jaiminiiyam Cha Naamaani Darshanaanyamoonayoh.

 

Bouddha darshan, Nyaya darshan.Sankhya darshan,Jain darshan,Vaisheshika darshan, Jaimini darshan. Different schools of Hindu Dharma believe in the Karma theory and Rebirth i.e (Karma phala Siddhant) purushaartha (action) and practice the same standard of Papam & Punyam (Sin & Virtue).

 

In their daily rituals every one uses five things like Pushup, Gandha, Dhoop, Deep, Naivcdya, which symbolize five tattva (five elements). Pushpa (Flower) , Aakash ( space) , Dhoop (stick), Vaayu (Air) , Deep (Lamp), Agni (fire), Gandha (Smell), Prithvi (Earth - Soil), Naivedya (water), Jal (Amrit - Ras)

 

Every one uses the same logic and reason of Nyaya Darshan.

 

On the basis of deity worship we have shada matam (six sects) six school
Saurya - Sun worshiper, Shaiva - Shiva Worshiper, Vaishnava - Vishnu worshiper Sakta - Shakti (Goddess) worshiper, Ganapata - Ganapati worshiper; Kaumarya - Karthikeya worshiper

 

The basic unity in these six schools of deity worship is always visible.
Vishnu and Shiva together worship as Harihar

 

Shakti in different form as Parvati and Lakshmi are consorts of Shiva & Vishnu Ganapati & Kartikeyan are sons of Shiva Unity in Shaiva & Vaishnava tradition.

 

Sant Jnaneshwar initiated in Adinata School (Guru Gorakhnath) of Shaiva tradition. His famous book is known as Jnaneshwari. It is the main book of Warakari tradition. Warakari tradition is one of the schools of Vaishnav traditions.

A Sanyasi Ishwar Puri of Advaita Vedanta School initiated Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu propagated Vaishnavism.

 

Shri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa was initiated by a Sanyasi Totapuri of the Advaita Vedant tradition. But all his life, he worshiped Goddess mother Kali.

 

Sikh Parampara begun with by Shri Gurunanak Dev. In this parampara socio-cultural unity of Hinduness is visible everywhere.

 

Gurus arrange Yajnopavit sanskar (sacred thread ceremony) and marriage ceremony according to the Hindu customs.

 

At the founding meeting of Vishva Hindu Parishad in the year 1964 Master Tara Singh in his spirited speech stressed the fact that

 

• the Sikhs and Hindus are not two separate communities .

• Sikhs are an inalienable part of great Hindu society.

• Guru Govind Singh had elaborated the knowledge and philosophy in Gurumukhi only by profusely drawing from the Hindu scriptures and Puranas.

 

Mr. Khushwant Singh wrote in his book "Many Faces" - "The Khalsa Panth, remained an integral part of the Hindu social and religious system. It is significant that when Guru Tegh Bahadur was summoned to Delhi, he went as a representative of the Hindus. He was executed in the year 1675.

 

• His son Shri Guru Gobind Singh, who succeeded him as guru later described his father's martyrdom as in the cause of the Hindu faith, 'to preserve their caste marks and their sacred thread did he perform the supreme sacrifice'. The guru himself looked upon his community as an integral part of the Hindu social system."

Mr Khushwant Singh further wrote in his book "Many faces" "By many standard, Ranjit Singh was a Hindu ruler: "He worshipped as much in Hindu temples as he did in gurudwaras.

 

• When he was sick and about to die, he gave away cows for charity. What did he do with the diamond Kohinoor? He did not want to give it to the Darbar Sahib at Amritsar, which he built in marble and gold, but to Jagannath Puri as his farewell gift.

Jain darshan says

Vaidiko Vyavahartavyah Shrotavyah Punar Arhatah (Meaning - Vedic tradition must be learnt and practiced. Thereafter we can practice the Arhat tradition)

 

Desh Dharman Jaati Dharman Kul Dharman cha Shashwatan –

Desh Dharma = Duty & responsibility towards Nation,

Jaati Dharma = Duty & responsibility towards community,

Kul Dharma = Duty & responsibility towards family.

 

All three duties are the same for everyone During the Kumbha Mela in 2001 His Holiness Dalai Lama visited VHP camp and met with Shankaracharya and Maha Mandaleswar. During that meeting they signed a joint declaration. Portion of that declaration

"Maryada Purushottam Bhagwan Shri Ram, Ahimsa Avatar Bhagwan Rishabdev, Karunavatar Tathgat Bhgwan Buddha, Sri Gurunanakdev and Shri Gurugovind Singh share the distinguished lineage of Ikshvaku - Kul( clan) and thus closely related brothers in Dharma".

 

When we tried to understand different schools of Hindu Dharma with some seriousness we find 99% Unity (Samanvaya), only 1 % difference.

 

We should focus and concentrate on this 99% Unity(Samanvaya), then you will realize the 100% Unity(samanvaya) and that this 1% of difference will disappear.

 

• Problems start only when we concentrate and focus on 1 % of difference. Due to our focus on I % difference, that 1 % difference gets magnified and become 99%.

 

Our Socio-cultural-spiritual value system is so strong that no one can separate us. Unity is visible in our daily life. We celebrate festivals together. Every one participates in Kumbha Mela. Every one takes dips and wish to take dips in Holy Gangaji and other sacred rivers. People from North, South, East and West go for pilgrimage in all the Holy pilgrim Places (Dhams).

 

In modern time in late 19th century we had great Swami Dayananand Saraswati, the founder of Arya Samaj. Swami Dayananda Saraswati, explained the Unity (samanvaya) of different schools of Hindus in very simple way. Here is quote:

" In 1877 the then commissioner of Amritsar Mr H. Perkins asked questions to Swallli Dayanand H. Perkins - Why Hindu Dharma is so weak as of cotton thread? (Soot ka Dhaga)

 

Swamiji replied - Hindu Dharma is as strong as Steel. Steel can break. But Hindu Dharma cannot.

 

H. Perkins - Give me any example - then I will believe

 

• Swami ji - Hindu Dharma is like an ocean. The way countless waves arise in the ocean and merge in it, the same thing you can  see in the Hindu Dharma. There is one sect whose followers drink water after filter, another drinks only milk. There is one sect who lives the life of acetic Sadhu for ever. There is one sect who worships formless divine and another worships Avatar (Divine incarnation) Statue.

 

• There is one sect who only practices meditation, another only philosophy. There is one sect who drink water and take cooked food from Shudra and another don't. Some practice caste system and others don't practice. With all these Diversity, they are all real Hindus and no one can expel them from the fold of Hindu Dharma. Therefore you must understand that Hindu Dharma is very strong and not weak.

 

Conclusion

 

Other Societies are divided but organized. They are like a Nagpuri Orange. From outside they look one. Once you remove the skin of orange the pieces fall apart.

Hindu Society is like a watermelon. From outside it looks divided but when you cut the watermelon, inside there is only one piece.

 

In the present situation Hindu society is like a "Bundi ke ladoo". They are one but the moment you touch, it breaks.

 

Hindu Society was united by our ancestors through several socio-religious-cultural continuities. Now it is time to transform viscous Hindu unity into strong and solid Organization. To understand in a simple way we have to convert this "Bundi ke ladoo" into "Bundi ke Kadak ladoo" of Mumbai. Those who have tasted "Bundi ke Kadak Ladoo" can understand the strength of Kadak Ladoo. On the same way we have to organize our Hindu Society.

 

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[Anil Bhanot]

Agree Goutam ji with Swami Vigyananda ji on 'organisation' rather than 'unity' emphasis....I have found in my experience the word 'unity' is a red-herring and we try to follow it from the perspective of the Monotheists tradition which is not our tradition. 

anil bhanot

PS. I am including Harish and Pardip above who are 'organising' a Global Hindu Congress body for increasing this organisation that Swami ji speaks of.

--

Anil Bhanot OBE                

www.bhanot.co.uk : www.ritatrust.org

 

[bhagwat goel]

WHO WOULD ORGANISE US. OUR LEADERS IN VHP, RSS & VHP? What are they doing?

[Anil Bhanot]

Bhagwat ji

Your question is about unity not organisation, you have just substituted the word Organise for unite. That is exactly what Hindus need to understand that to seek unity for itself will never work with us - Hinduism simply lacks such a base - but to seek organisation will work and a by product of that would be unity,

In an organisation neither VHP nor RSS will be solely responsible for unity but together and with many other such organisations, some hard, many softer ones, the issues will be resolved slowly. Sometimes the organisations may conflict but in the medium term they will find a way of working together in a more organised way. That is organisation. Unity becomes less important and in any case I don't think Hindus can hope for the sort of unity you seek through personalities or some particular organisations. We are an individualistic faith not the brotherhood type so best to accept what we are and work round it.....in an organised way!

anil bhanot

[Anil Bhanot]

This is why greater organisation is needed to debunk people like this P Radhakrishanan who harm Hindus from the inside, his write up below is full of hatred for the Hindu Dharma which he clearly does not understand but them goes on to spread his diatribe to confuse other Hindus.  

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

TAT TVAM ASI

 

             The three Sanskrit words, tat tvam asi (thou art that), are regarded as the core of Hinduism. It means, Jivatma (individual soul) is also paramatma (God or universal soul).  In other words, man himself is God. The Bible says that the Devil tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit so that man could become god. How can man become god? Everybody wants to be god. Hindu concept of ‘You are God’ is only a fanciful thought and practically it will not be possible for a man to become god. If this concept is true, how can we call a rapist, a murderer, a terrorist a god?  Man is man; god is god.  In actual reality there are three hundred and thirty millions of gods in Hinduism. As Nehru says: “The Brahman priests had introduced all manner of rites and pujas and superstition, for the more there is of puja the more do the priests flourish. Caste was becoming stricter, and the common people were frightened by omens and spells and witchcraft and quackery.” Ambedkar points out in his book writings and speeches that the Hindu scriptures tell us that the famous god, Krishna, had sixteen thousand one hundred and eight wives, apart from his legitimate seven wives. He also says that the Hindu scriptures also tell us about the sexual debauchery of other gods like Siva, Indra, Brahma and Vishnu. And yet, to sell Hinduism in the West, Hindu leaders like Vivekananda, Radhakrishnan, Sri Ravi Shanker, Deepak Chopra, Bikram Choudhary  and others camouflage the nature and activities of the real gods and goddesses of Hinduism and project Hinduism as a religion of love and ahimsa. They take a sentence or words uttered by the characters of the mythological epics like the Ramayana or Mahabharata and give their own interpretation, studded with ideas heavily borrowed from Christianity, science, psychology and Western philosophy. As for instance, hiding the violence, deceit and duplicity in the Mahabaharata, they highlight a dialogue between Krishna and Arjuna in the battlefield, calling it Bhagavad Gita or Song of the Lord. Real character of Hindu gods and goddesses is masked. Christian ideals of love, justice, kindness, sacrifice and fellowship as well as psychology, science and Western philosophy are laced with the utterances of these characters to give a modern and cultured outlook to Hinduism. What has got quantum physics and Freudian psychology to do with primitive, mythological Hindu epics? But that is the strategy by which ancient Hinduism is projected to the westerners by interpolating whatever is modern in the West. Radhakrishnan studied philosophy in Madras Christian College, and he lavishly quotes Bradley, Spinoza, Hegel, Bergsen and other Western philosophers while interpreting primeval Hinduism and thereby gives an artificial modern outlook. Instead of giving the names of rapacious Hindu gods, he uses the term ‘supreme universal spirit’ or the‘Absolute’ while referring to god. Vivekananda studied at Scottish Church College, Kolkota. When he addressed the Parliament of Religions at Chicago, he presented Christianized Hinduism, deliberately avoiding the depravity of Gods and cruel rites in Hinduism such as female infanticide, caste cruelty and barbarous customs like Sati in Hinduism. In his own state Bengal hundreds of young widows were being burnt alive when Vivekanada was lecturing in European countries on love and kindness in Hinduism. All religions of the world give importance to the activities of gods. But Hinduism thrives only on the basis of commentaries and interpretations by masking the wicked deeds of gods and barbarous Hindu rites such as burning of widows (sati), caste tyranny by which millions were killed without any trial and stifling superstition. Jaimini and Badarayana were responsible for the formulation of Vedic beliefs. The original Hindu scriptures such as the Vedas, the Ramayana and Bhagavad-Gita are packed with violent acts [ the Vedas deal with the savagery of the marauding Aryans and the suppression of native inhabitants, collectively calling them as dasas, mlechas and chandalas , the Ramayana deals with the expansion of the Aryans in the south and the war with the Dravidian Chief, Ravana and the killings of non-Aryans who were called demons,  and the Mahabharata deals with the intrigues,, conspiracies and wars  among the Aryan tribes]. So none of these sacred books of the Hindus advocates love, non-violence, fellowship and tolerance. It was to mask the cruel acts of gods in  Hinduism  that Jamini produced the Mimansa and Badarayana produced the Brahma Sutras.  Sayancharya produced a commentary on the Vedas, completely hiding  the caste hatred, conflicts and selfish pursuits of the invading Aryans.  The ancient religious doctrines of the Upanishads were reduced to an elaborate system of philosophy by Badarayana under the title of Vedanta Sutras. Although there is no philosophica thought in the original Hindu scriptures, by interpretation and commentary seven schools od philosophical thought were interposed only after the Christian era. The other interpreters were Sankara (about AD 820), Ramanuja (AD 1137) and Madhava (AD1276). All these interpretations and commentaries took place after the birth of Christianity.  Christianity was active in India in first century AD itself when Thomas,the disciple of Jesus, came to India and established several churches for the converts. Sankara was from Kerala and he was familiar with the teachings of Jesus which he came to know from the Christian community living in his neighbourhood. The production of commentaries led on the one hand to a tradition of interpretation, and on the other to several variants in interpretation. The strategy adopted to carry out this objective is to hide all the acts of gods and goddesses in the Hindu scriptures and to  project the Upanishads, the last book of the Vedas, as the new face of Hinduism. Tat tvam asi or Thou art That is a phrase in the Upanishads and it means that the individual soul (atman) is to be identified with the Supreme soul (Brahman) atma or identifiesmerges with the paramatma.  Obviously,  it is not a wise and practical  conception, for man can never become god. If men are also gods, planet earth will be a paradise.  It is a clever strategy to attract all to Hinduism by propagating this sweet-coated concept. Ambedkar says: “As to philosophy there is nothing of it in the Rig Veda.” Prof. Horace Hayman Wilson was a great Sanskrit scholar and Secretary of the Asiatic Society.   Wilson observes: “There is in the Rig-Veda, which is the stock Veda, scarcely any indication or doctrinal or philosophical speculation, no allusion to the later notions of the several schools, nor is there any hint of metempsychosis or of the doctrine intimately allied to it, of the repeated renovation of the world. The Vedas may be useful as a source of information regarding the social life of the Aryans. As a picture of primitive life it is full of curiosity but there is nothing elevating. There are more vices and a few virtues. “How many Ramayanas? Three hundred? Three thousand? At the end of some Ramayanas, a question is sometimes asked: How many Ramayanas have there been?" wondered the late poet and scholar A.K.Ramanujan of the Indian epic in a compelling essay he wrote for a University of Pittsburgh conference in 1987.

 

                 

 

 

 

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From: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011 1:01 PM
Subject: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

 

My personal view is that Hindus or the Sanatani's or Vaidic Philosophy lacks the Political Will to spread the message. The main reason for that could be the concept of "Moksha"(मोक्ष), where in an Individual can attain it. 

Any other view points or comments!!!!

Dr. Ambekar.

On 25 Oct 2011, at 15:21, Arjun wrote:

even the monotheists are not united otherwise they wouldnt be living divided in so many countries .That proves the 'one' god theory is a total failure while the hindus with their many gods live mainly in one country.But the difference is the monotheists are more organised because they at least  are brought up on  a ideological direction .So they either work together or individually to that direction while hindus on the other hand are lead by organisations which lack total direction and if you add  groups like the Arya Samaj into the mix with its inferiority complex of desperately trying to put hindus into the monotheist straitjacket then tht only confuses hindus even more,,

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From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
To: bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "arjun...@yahoo.co.uk" <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011, 16:56
Subject: Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

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[Anil Bhanot]

Yes I agree with your view on Moksh and this view is harmed Hindus, made them self-centred though there are many more good things like Karma making them responsible and self reliant and such like many many good bits of ideologies in comparison to others, but Moksh is taught somewhat wrongly by our Swamis in my view - they don't teach it as Bhagwan Krishna did in the Gita but then I am only a layman.

anil bhanot

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 8:31 AM, Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

My personal view is that Hindus or the Sanatani's or Vaidic Philosophy lacks the Political Will to spread the message. The main reason for that could be the concept of "Moksha"(मोक्ष), where in an Individual can attain it. 

Any other view points or comments!!!!

Dr. Ambekar.

On 25 Oct 2011, at 15:21, Arjun wrote:

even the monotheists are not united otherwise they wouldnt be living divided in so many countries .That proves the 'one' god theory is a total failure while the hindus with their many gods live mainly in one country.But the difference is the monotheists are more organised because they at least  are brought up on  a ideological direction .So they either work together or individually to that direction while hindus on the other hand are lead by organisations which lack total direction and if you add  groups like the Arya Samaj into the mix with its inferiority complex of desperately trying to put hindus into the monotheist straitjacket then tht only confuses hindus even more,,

---

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

To: bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "arjun...@yahoo.co.uk" <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011, 16:56

Subject: Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

[bhagwat goel]

Yes Sir:  Combine Moksha 'everything is Maya' World is Maya. Which leads to ME,MY,FAMILY ,BIRADARI & THEN NATION.

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
To: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

Yes I agree with your view on Moksh and this view is harmed Hindus, made them self-centred though there are many more good things like Karma making them responsible and self reliant and such like many many good bits of ideologies in comparison to others, but Moksh is taught somewhat wrongly by our Swamis in my view - they don't teach it as Bhagwan Krishna did in the Gita but then I am only a layman.

anil bhanot

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 8:31 AM, Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

My personal view is that Hindus or the Sanatani's or Vaidic Philosophy lacks the Political Will to spread the message. The main reason for that could be the concept of "Moksha"(मोक्ष), where in an Individual can attain it. 

Any other view points or comments!!!!

Dr. Ambekar.

On 25 Oct 2011, at 15:21, Arjun wrote:

even the monotheists are not united otherwise they wouldnt be living divided in so many countries .That proves the 'one' god theory is a total failure while the hindus with their many gods live mainly in one country.But the difference is the monotheists are more organised because they at least  are brought up on  a ideological direction .So they either work together or individually to that direction while hindus on the other hand are lead by organisations which lack total direction and if you add  groups like the Arya Samaj into the mix with its inferiority complex of desperately trying to put hindus into the monotheist straitjacket then tht only confuses hindus even more,,

[Arjun]

even the monotheists are not united otherwise they wouldnt be living divided in so many countries .That proves the 'one' god theory is a total failure while the hindus with their many gods live mainly in one country.But the difference is the monotheists are more organised because they at least  are brought up on  a ideological direction .So they either work together or individually to that direction while hindus on the other hand are lead by organisations which lack total direction and if you add  groups like the Arya Samaj into the mix with its inferiority complex of desperately trying to put hindus into the monotheist straitjacket then tht only confuses hindus even more,,

---

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

To: bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "arjun...@yahoo.co.uk" <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011, 16:56

Subject: Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

[Dr. Madhukar Ambekar]

My personal view is that Hindus or the Sanatani's or Vaidic Philosophy lacks the Political Will to spread the message. The main reason for that could be the concept of "Moksha"(मोक्ष), where in an Individual can attain it. 

Any other view points or comments!!!!

Dr. Ambekar.

On 25 Oct 2011, at 15:21, Arjun wrote:

[Arjun]

majority of hindus dont even understand the abc of hinduism let alone what moksha is.Even Buddhists who think the whole world is maya are more organised politically in some countries or have an influence over politics ..In the last 60 years or so the Hindu movement has been failure and thats due its ideological direction.Even now have Hindus even created a hindu constitution as alternative to the nehruvian anti hindu one in India ? .NO.  So what Hindu solutions are being sold to the hindu masses apart from nonsense like how anti hindu the congress party is or how sonia gandhi is looting the country ? None at all..If hindus want to take over the country then they have to give a better alternative based on the hindu ethos to majority of the country then things will change for the best..Voting in the BJP is not going to make much difference..Hindus need to read Decolonisation of the Hindu mind to get an idea why the hindu movement in a country of 800 million hindus have failed to make a dent in hindu society and the main problem is not just secularism but the political minded hindus themselves who base their agenda on just emotional reactions ...

---

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

To: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>

Cc: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011, 1:23

[Arjun]

whats ironical is the moron with his hate and totally false propaganda against hinduism still calls himself Radha Krishan lol he can always change his name to mr thomas like the myth is based his so called 'facts' on

Why Indians should reject St. Thomas and Christianity – Koenraad Elst

“Christians must acknowledge the historical fact that from Bethlehem to Madras, most of their sacred sites are booty won in campaigns of fraud and destruction.” – Dr. Koenraad Elst

INDIA’S CHRISTIAN PROBLEM

In the  West we don’t hear much about it, and even in India it doesn’t make many headlines, but Hindu society is faced with a Christian problem besides the better-known Muslim problem.[1] One focus of this conflict is the history of Christian iconoclasm, which is not entirely finished, and which past history has crystallized into some hundreds of churches standing on the ruins of purposely demolished Hindu temples. This history of iconoclasm is not an accident: it is the logical outcome of Christian theology, particularly of its deep hostility towards non-Christian forms of worship.

Christian sacred places in Palestine

A book well worth reading for those engaged in controversies over sacred sites, in particular concerning Christian churches in South India, is Christians and the Holy Placesby Joan Taylor, a historian from New Zealand.[2] It shows that the places where Christians commemorate the birth and death of Jesus have nothing to do with Jesus, historically.

The Nativity Church in Bethlehem was built in the fourth century A.D. in forcible replacement of a Pagan place of worship, dedicated to the God Tammuz-Adonis. Until then, it had had no special significance for Christians, who considered pilgrimages to sacred places a Pagan practice anyway: you cannot concentrate in one place (hence, go on pilgrimage to) the Omnipresent. The concept of “sacred place” was introduced into Christianity by converts, especially at the time of Emperor Constantine’s switch to a pro-Christian state policy.

The Christian claim to Bethlehem as Jesus’s birthplace was a fraud from the beginning, as Cambridge historian Michael Arnheim has shown: through numerous contradictions and factual inaccuracies, the Gospel writers betray their intention to locate Jesus’s birth in Bethlehem at any cost, against all information available to them.[3] The reason is that they had to make Jesus live up to an Old Testament prophecy that the Messiah was to be born there.

Church in Jerusalem was built in forcible replacement of a temple of the fertility Goddess Venus,the personal initiative of Emperor Constantine. His mother had seen in a dream that Jesus had died at that particular place, though close scrutiny of the original Christian texts shows that they point to a place 200 metres to the south. Constantine had the Venus temple demolished and the ground searched, and yes, his experts duly found the cross on which Jesus had died. They somehow assumed that their forebears of 33 A.D. had a habit of leaving or even burying crucifixion crosses at the places where they had been used, quod non. The Christian claim to the site of the Holy Cross is based on the dream of a gullible but fanatical woman, and fortified with a faked excavation.[4]

Remember the Ayodhya debate, where Hindu scholars were challenged to produce ever more solid proof of the traditions underlying the sacredness of the controversial site? Whatever proof they came up with was automatically, without any inspection, dismissed by the high priests of secularism as “myth” and “faked evidence”. It was alleged that there was a “lack of proof” for the assumption that Rama ever lived there. But in the case of the Christian sacred places, we do not just have lack of proof that the religion’s claim is true, but we have positive proof that its claim is untrue, and that it was historically part of a campaign of fraud and destruction.

The stories of the Nativity and Holy Cross sites were trend setters in a huge campaign of christianization of Pagan sacred sites. Joan Taylor also mentions how the Aphrodite temple in Ein Karim near Jerusalem was demolished and replaced with the Nativity Church of John the Baptist. In the same period, all over the Roman Empire, Pagan places of worship were demolished, sacred groves chopped down and idols smashed by Christian preachers who replaced them with Christian relics which they themselves posted or “discovered” there, like the twenty-odd “only real” instances of Jesus’s venerable foreskin.

Pagan symbols and characters were superficially christianized. For example, Saint George and the archangel Michael, both depicted as slaying a dragon, are nothing but Christian names for the Indo-European myth of the dragon-slayer (in the Vedic version: Indra slaying Vrtra). The Pagan festivals of the winter solstice (Yuletide) and the spring equinox were deformed into the Christian festivals of Christmas and Easter.[5] The Egyptian icon of the Mother Goddess Isis with her son Horus in her lap, very popular throughout the Roman Empire, was turned into the Madonna with the Babe Jesus. At the same time, devotees of the genuine Mother Goddess and enthusiasts of the genuine winter solstice festival were persecuted, their temples demolished or turned into churches.

This massive campaign of fraud and destruction was subsequently extended to the Germanic, Slavic and Baltic countries. Numerous ancient churches across Europe are so many Babri Masjids, containing or standing on the left-overs of so many Rama Janmabhoomi temples. Just after the christianization of Europe was completed with the forced conversion of Lithuania in the fifteenth century, the iconoclastic zeal was taken to America, and finally to Africa and Asia.

Christian impositions on India

India too has had its share of Christian iconoclasm. After the Portuguese settlement, hundreds of temples in and around the Portuguese-held territories were demolished, often to be replaced with Catholic churches. “Saint” Francis Xavier described with glee the joy he felt when he saw the Hindu idols smashed and temples demolished.[6] Most sixteenth and seventeenth century churches in India contain the rubble of demolished Hindu temples. The French-held pockets witnessed some instances of Catholic fanaticism as well. Under British rule, Hindu places of worship in the population centres were generally left alone (some exceptions notwithstanding), but the tribal areas became the scene of culture murder by Catholic and Protestant missionaries. There are recent instances of desecration of tribal village shrines and sacred groves by Christians, assaults on Hindu processions both in the tribal belts and in the south, and attempts to turn the Vivekananda Rock Memorial at Kanyakumari into a Virgin Mary shrine.[7]

In South India, the myth of St. Thomas provided the background for a few instances of temple destruction at places falsely associated with his life and alleged martyrdom, especially the St. Thomas Church replacing the Mylapore Kapaleeswara Temple in Madras. In this case, the campaign of fraud is still continuing: till today, Christian writers continue to claim historical validity for the long-refuted story of the apostle Thomas coming to India and getting killed by jealous Brahmins.[8] The story is parallel to that of Jesus getting killed by the Jews, and it has indeed served as an argument in an elaborate Christian doctrine of anti-Brahminism which resembles Christian anti-Semitism to the detail. At any rate, it is a fraud.

From those Christian polemists insisting on the St. Thomas narrative’s historicity (I will be the first to welcome the unexpected demonstration of the historicity of traditions dismissed as “myths”), we may at least expect that they tell their prospective converts the whole of the story. They should not omit that it describes Thomas as Jesus’s twin brother (implying that Jesus was not God’s Only Begotten Son) and as an anti-social character who exhausted his royal protector’s patience by luring many women away from their families; and that it relates how Jesus was a slave-trader who was not even above selling his own brother.

Towards a full accounting and apology

For a proper way of digesting this dark episode of Christian iconoclasm, we suggest the following two steps. First of all, a full stop has to be put to the surreptitious forms of Christian iconoclasm which are continuing to this very day. It is nonsense to talk of dialogue and communal harmony as long as attempts are still being made to disrupt existing modes of worship.

Secondly, Hindus and Christians should take inspiration from the contemporary American attitude towards the horrible story of America’s christianization through culture murder and genocide. After all, the Christian conquests in India and in America are two sides of the same coin. In the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas, the Pope awarded one half of the world (ultimately comprising areas from Brazil to Macao, including Africa and India) to Portugal, and the other half (including most of America and the Philippines) to Spain, on condition that they use their power to christianize the population. The Spanish campaign in America had juridically and theologically exactly the same status as its Portuguese counterpart in India. If the result was not as absolutely devastating in India as it was in America, this was merely due to different power equations: the Portuguese were less numerous than the Spanish, and the Indians were technologically and militarily more equal to the Europeans than the Native Americans were. The Church’s intentions behind Columbus’s discovery of America and Vasco da Gama’s landing in India were exactly the same.

On the occasion of the 500th anniversary of Columbus’s first meeting with the Pagans of the New World (1992), many Christian dignitaries have expressed their shame and regret at what has been done to the Native Americans by (or, as they prefer to put it, “in the name of”) Christianity. Even the Pope has publicly acknowledged at least a part of his Church’s guilt.[9] Now that the 500th anniversary of Vasco da Gama’s landing in India [has passed], Hindus should make sure that the Christians including the Pope do not forget to do some similar soul-searching and to offer similar apologies.

Like the Native Americans, Hindu society will not be satisfied with a few cheap words. As Hindu spokesman Arun Shourie writes: “By an accounting [of the calumnies heaped upon India and Hinduism] I do not of course mean some declaration saying, ‘Sorry’. By an accounting I mean that the calumnies would be listed; the grounds on which they were based would be listed, and the Church would declare whether, in the light of what is known now, the grounds were justified or not; and the motives which impelled those calumnies would be exhumed.”[10] This is actually an application of the rules of confession, one of the Catholic sacraments: it is not enough to ask for absolution from your sins, you first have to confess what sins you have actually committed.

The Church now claims that it is no longer the aggressive Church Militant of the old days, that its whole outlook has profoundly changed. Shourie lists five criteria by which we will know whether these changes are genuine:

1. an honest accounting of the calumnies which the Church has heaped on India and Hinduism;
2. informing Indian Christians and non-Christians about the findings of Bible scholarship;
3. informing them about the impact of scientific progress on Church doctrine;
4. acceptance that reality is multi-layered and that there are many ways of perceiving it;
5. bringing the zeal for conversion in line with the recent declarations that salvation is possible through other religions as well.

I expect Church leaders to reply: “You cannot ask of the Indian Church to commit suicide like that!” But let us give them a chance.

Christian hostilities today

After the Church’s public self-criticism before the Native Americans, there is every reason [for Hindus] to take stock of what Christianity has done to India. But in this case, the Christians may need some insistent reminding: unlike in America, where they have had to face the facts of history, and where they have had to switch to a pro-Native stand under the aegis of Liberation Theology, the Christian Churches in India are still continuing on a course of self-righteous aggression against the native society and culture.

Seldom have I seen such viper-like mischievousness as in the most recent strategies of the Christian mission in India. It is a viper with two teeth. On the one side, there is the gentle penetration through social and educational services, now compounded with a rhetoric of “inculturation”: glib talk of “dialogue”, “sharing”, “common ground”, fraudulent donning of Hindu robes by Christian monks, all calculated to fool Hindus about the continuity of the Christian striving to destroy Hinduism and replace it with the cult of Jesus. This is not to deny that there are some Indian Christians who sincerely believe that the denomination game is outdated, that we should go “beyond the religions” and mix freely with non-Christians without trying to change their religious loyalties; but they do not represent official Church policy.

On the other side, there is a vicious attempt to delegitimize Hinduism as India’s native religion, and to mobilize the weaker sections of Hindu society against it with “blood and soil” slogans. Seeing how the nativist movement in the Americas is partly directed against Christianity because of its historical aggression against native society (in spite of Liberation Theology’s attempts to recuperate the movement), the Indian Church tries to take over this nativist tendency and forge it into a weapon against Hinduism. Christian involvement in the so-called Dalit (“oppressed”) and Adivasi (“aboriginal”) movements is an attempt to channel the nativist revival and perversely direct it against native society itself. It advertises its services as the guardian of the interests of the “true natives” (meaning the Scheduled Castes and Tribes) against native society, while labelling the upper castes as “Aryan invaders”, on the basis of an outdated theory postulating an immigration in 1500 B.C.

To declare people “invaders” because of a supposed immigration of some of their ancestors 3500 years ago is an unusual feat of political hate rhetoric in itself, but the point is that it follows a pattern of earlier rounds of Christian aggression. It is Cortes all over again: Cortes, the conqueror of Mexico, could defeat the Aztecs, the ruling nation which had immigrated from Utah three centuries earlier, by enlisting the support of nations subdued by the Aztecs, with himself posing as their liberator (of course, they were to regret their “liberation”). The attempt to divide the people of a country on an ethnic basis—whether it is a real ethnic distinction as in the case of Cortes’ Mexico, or a wilfully invented one as in the case of India—is an obvious act of hostility, unmistakably an element of warfare.

While in the post-colonial decades, Church rhetoric has markedly softened, its action on the ground has only become more aggressive. Shourie quotes intelligence reports on the role of missionaries in armed separatist movements in the North-East, and on their violations of the legal restrictions in Arunachal Pradesh on conversion by force or allurement.[12]  The World Council of Churches officially supports separatism in the tribal areas (and even among the Schedules Castes, another “indigenous nation”!), in pursuit of the long cherished project of carving out Christian-dominated independent states. In its 1989 Darwin Declaration, the WCC announces: “Indigenous peoples strive for and demand the full spectrum of autonomy available in the principle of self-determination, including the right to re-establish our own nation-states”. The Churches and governments have an obligation to see [this] come to reality by providing the necessary means, without any restriction attached.”[13]  What sounds fair enough in the case of the Tibetans or the East-Timorese, is used in India as a step on the way to unrestricted exercise of clerical power, a formalization of the already existing trends in the Christian-dominated states of the Indian republic.

Therefore, “without any restriction”, Christians are teaching some sections of Hindu society hatred against other sections. You don’t normally try to create hostility between your friends, so the Church’s policy to pit sections of Hindu society against one another should be seen for what it is: an act of aggression, which warrants an active policy of self-defence and counter-attack. This counter-attack should take a proper form, adapted to the genius of Hinduism.

Why Christianity should be rejected

The Hindu response to Christian aggression should concentrate on consciousness-raising. Information should be widely disseminated on the two fundamental reasons why Christianity is totally unacceptable as an alternative to Hinduism.

The first is its historical record, with its destructive fanaticism as well as its opportunistic collaboration with whichever  social force seemed most helpful to the Church’s expansion. Contrary to current propaganda, Christianity has historically supported feudalism, absolute kingship, slavery and apartheid, all properly justified with passages from the Bible. St. Peter and St. Paul gave a clear message to the oppressed of the world: “Slaves, accept with due submission the authority of your masters, not only if they are good and friendly, but even if they are harsh.” (1 Peter 2:18) And: “Slaves, be obedient to your earthly masters with devotion and simplicity, as if your obedience were directed to Christ Himself.”(Ephesians 6:5)[14].  Liberation Theology, far from constituting a break with the Church’s long-standing collaboration with the dominant powers, is merely the application of the same strategy to new circumstances: now that the masses constitute a decisive political force, now that social activism is a theme which ensures political and financial support from different quarters, the Church has decided to tap into this new source of power as well.

The other (and in my opinion the most important) fact about Christianity which ought to be the topic of an all-out education campaign, is the scientific certainty that its fundamental teachings are historically fraudulent, intellectually garbled, and psychologically morbid. Jesus was neither the son of a virgin mother nor the Only Begotten Son of God. Jesus’s perception of himself as the Messiah and the Son of God was a psychopathological condition, supported by hallucinations (especially the voice he heard during his baptism, the visions of the devil during his fast, the vision of Elijah and Moses on Mount Tabor), and partly caused by his most ordinary but traumatic shame of having been conceived out of wedlock. Numerous manipulations (interpolation, omission, antedating, deliberate mistakes of translation and interpretation) of the textual basis of Christian doctrine by the evangelists and other Church Fathers have been discovered, analyzed and explained in their historical context by competent Bible scholars, most of them working at Christian institutes.[15]

Now some Hindus will object that there must also be a bright side. I am well aware that Christian history has produced some important contributions to human progress in culture, art, philosophy. I have a rather positive opinion of some of the Christian classics, such as Thomas Aquinas’s philosophy, or the Church’s social teachings (which are rather different from Liberation Theology), and I stand by my earlier suggestion that Hindu political ideologues would gain a lot from studying the works which inspired their natural European counterpart, the Christian Democrats.[16] However, a closer analysis shows that the truly important elements in these contributions are ultimately of non-Christian origin.

The intellectually most attractive elements in Christian doctrine are bits of Hellenistic philosophy co-opted by the Church Fathers, without any prophetic or revelatory origins, apart from elements of Judaic tradition which predated Jesus and were in no way augmented or surpassed by his supposed teachings. The way Christianity incorporated them is often a superficial cover-up of the contradictions between mutually exclusive teachings. Thus, the Platonic notion of an immortal soul, which is part of Church doctrine, makes the central Christian message of the “resurrection of the body” (which originated in a Jewish tradition ignoring the notion of an afterlife) superfluous. If death does not really exist, if it is merely a step from this type of life to another type, why bother about bodily resurrection? And if we partake of the Divine nature by sharing God’s immortality, where is the need for a Saviour?

On the other hand, those contributions which set Christianity apart from the prevailing religious and intellectual atmosphere in the Greco-Roman world, are not always the most desirable. Thus, Christianity’s emphasis on the individual’s dependence on Scriptural or Church authority has suffocated millions of people in their spiritual development and directly caused the persecution and killing of numerous freethinkers. Its contorted and repressive attitude towards human sexuality is notoriously responsible for untold amounts of psychological suffering. Add the negative attitude towards worldly pursuits including science; the sentimental fixation on a single historical person with his idiosyncratic behaviour, extolled moreover to a divine status (Jews and Muslims have a point when they consider this the ultimate in “idolatry”); the concomitant depreciation of all other types of human character (artist, warrior, householder, humorist, renouncer) in favour of the pathetic antisocial type which Jesus represented; and the morbid love of martyrdom. Our list of Christianity’s failures is not complete, but is sufficient to justify the evaluation on which millions of Christian-born people have come to agree: Christianity is not true.

Jesus was not God’s Only Begotten Son, and he was not the Saviour of mankind from its Original Sin. Historically, he was just one of the numerous antisocial preachers going around in troubled Palestine in the period of Roman rule. He believed the End was near (definitely a failed prophecy, unless we redefine “near”), and had a rather high opinion of himself and of his role in the impending catastrophe. We can feel compassion for this thoroughly unhappy man with his miserably unsuccessful life, but we should not compensate him for his failure by elevating him to a super-human status; let alone worshipping him as Saviour and Son of God. Whatever the worth of values which Christians claim as theirs, nothing at all is gained by making people believe in a falsehood like the faith in Jesus Christ.

Life after Christianity

Hindus with their conservative and pluralistic concern for the continuity of people in their respective faiths may wonder whether, for Christians, there is life after Christianity. Let me speak from my own experience. I have grown up in a Catholic family, gone to Catholic schools, and am a member of Catholic social organizations, so in a sociological sense I belong to the Catholic community. Moreover, I publish articles defending the Christians against the Islamic onslaught in foreign countries as well as against cultural aggression by Left-secularists in my own country. I also like to point to the worthwhile contributions of the Church tradition and of Christian thinkers and artists against the sweeping anti-Christian positions of some of my atheist and Hindu friends. Yet, like most of my friends from the same background, I have gradually discovered that Christianity is an illusory belief system, and without any outside intellectual or other pressures, my attachment to it has dissolved.

This step from belief in an irrational “revealed” doctrine towards truthfulness and the spirit of independent inquiry has not been a loss to me, nor to most people in the same situation that I know of. On the contrary, I have found that St. Paul’s dictum is fully valid: “Know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

For many thoughtful Westerners, the end of Christianity has not turned out to be the end of religion and morality, contrary to the predictions of our teachers. To be sure, there has been a profound change in public morality, which is partly a liberation from repressive prejudice, but partly also a real decline in moral sensitivity and responsibility, as demonstrated by the rising crime rate and the increasing number of broken families. Christianity claims to be the solution to this problem (hence the call for a “second evangelization”), but to quite an extent it should accept the blame for this development. By identifying religiosity and morality with its own irrational belief system, Christianity has made many people who outgrew this belief system throw out the annexes of moral responsibility and spiritual striving as well. Now, people are needing some time to discover for themselves that religion and morality still make sense after the demise of Christianity.

Back to pre-Christian roots

Though the decline of Christianity in the West brings a few problems with it, that is no reason to reverse the process. Instead, we are reconstructing religion and morality for ourselves. One of the sources of the post-Christian religious revival, numerically still marginal but of great symbolic significance, is the rediscovery of ancestral Paganism. Intellectually, this movement still lacks solidity and consistency, and finds itself associated with a variety of social and political concerns stretching across the ideological spectrum: ethnic revivalism, nationalism, ecologism, feminism, communitarianism, anarchism. Part of the reason is that in European Paganism, unlike in Hinduism, there is no historical continuity, so that (except for the well-documented Greek traditions) there is ample room for guessing and fantasizing about the historical contents of ancient Paganism: an open invitation to romantics and theosophists to project their own pet ideas onto the mute screen of the ancient religion. Perhaps that is why the most consistent neo-Pagan movement arose in Iceland, where the memory of ancient Paganism was best preserved.

When Pope John-Paul II visited Iceland, he was received by Christian dignitaries, but the first one to address him was the country’s senior most religious leader, Sveinbjšrn Beinteinsson (1924-93). Originally a farmer, Beinteinsson gained fame across northern Europe as a traditional singer and songwriter (what the English call, with a term from the Celtic part of their cultural ancestry, a bard), and in 1972 he founded the Asatruarflagid, the “society for the Ase religion”, which was officially registered as a religion on 3 May 1973.[17]  As “the whole people’s invocator” (Allsherjargodi)[18]  of the reconstituted ancestral religion, he spoke with mild irony to the Pope, about these “new fashions in religion” (meaning Christianity) which his tradition had seen arriving in Iceland.

The Icelandic example is being followed in other Germanic countries including North America. Celtic-based revivals are flourishing in Celtic countries or countries with a Celtic past (France, where some 40 different neo-Druid societies of divergent quality co-exist, England and Belgium). Slavic and Baltic countries have their own variety, with Russia and Lithuania being particularly fertile grounds for neo-Paganism.[19] In the former Soviet provinces of Tajikistan and Ossetia, there is a revival of Zoroastrianism, while forms of Shamanism are resurfacing from Kyrgyzstan to Hungary. In North America, these movements are partly absorbing those circles which were flirting earlier with Native American spirituality (sweat lodge ceremony). They now accept that the Native Americans themselves don’t appreciate this type of imitation and prefer European-descended people to rediscover their own Pagan heritage. While evangelists are working hard to christianize tribals in the interiors of Latin America, many christianized Native Americans are returning to their ancestral traditions. In Brazil, supposedly the world’s largest Catholic country, the black and mulatto populations are taking to the elaborately polytheistic Candombl cult, with the sympathy of growing sections of the European-descended people, who view this cult of African origin as the emerging national religion.

Most of these neo-Pagan groups are still too obviously immature, groping in the dark created by the Christian destruction of their historical roots; it is interesting to watch some of them adapt their own rituals and doctrines to new scholarly findings about their chosen religious ancestry.[20]  We shall have to see how this line of response to the post-Christian vacuum develops; but already, its very existence poses a powerful symbolic challenge to Christianity.

Meanwhile, the biggest actual challenge to Christianity in the West is the appeal of Oriental religions. Now long past the stage of beatnik experimentation with Zen Buddhism and hippie affectations of Indian lore, the Western daughter-schools of Asian schools of Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism are gaining in authenticity and respectability as well as in attendance numbers. Some people formally convert and declare themselves followers of these religions; many more just practise the techniques they’ve learned and try to live according to the teachings, all while insisting on their individual non-attachment to any organized religion. Thus, in Germany (at least among natives, as opposed to the prolific Muslim immigrants), Buddhism is the fastest growing religion with some 300,000 practitioners. Even more far-reaching is the gradual penetration of small bits and pieces of Oriental heritage: most sportsmen as well as pregnant women preparing for birth now learn some elementary yogic breath control (prānāyāma) techniques, while even among Christian monks and nuns there is a substantial percentage who defy the Pope’s warnings and practise non-Christian forms of meditation.

Part of Christianity’s appeal among Indian tribals and fishermen is the (waning, but still palpable) prestige of the West. They should realize that the West is gradually opening up to the traditions of India and China, even while the elites of these countries are still spitting on their own heritage and pursuing westernization. Indians living in the middle of these traditions should have no problem finding a worthwhile alternative to Christianity. Even Dalits with a grudge against Hinduism should have no problem in rejecting the eager invitations of Christianity and Islam, and in following their leader Dr. Ambedkar onto the path of the Buddha. In time, closer study of the Buddha’s teachings may well reveal to them that, just as Jesus was a Jew, the Buddha was a Hindu.

Christianity against Paganism

It is interesting to see how the mild and harmless people who run the leftovers of the once powerful Churches in Europe suddenly show a streak of fanaticism when confronted with signs of life in the long-buried corpse of Paganism. In Iceland, the established Lutheran Church has intervened to stop the ongoing construction of a Pagan temple halfway; the government complied with the pressure and temporarily halted the construction work.[21] In contemporary polemical publications from the Christian side, we see a boom in attacks on what is loosely called the New Age movement, meaning the mixed bag of feminist neo-witchcraft, ecologist philosophy (“deep ecology”), astrology, Pagan revivalism, Taoist health techniques and Hindu-Buddhist meditation. The Pope himself has condemned yoga, and in January 1995, his derogatory utterances on Buddhism provoked an anti-Pope agitation during his visit to Sri Lanka.[22]

By contrast, the Church leadership strongly opposes any serious criticism of Islam.[23] In India’s Hindu-Muslim conflict, the Christian media with their world-wide impact have thrown their weight completely behind the Islamic aggressor. The reason for this uneven treatment of Paganism (in the broadest sense) and Islam is not merely the relative closeness of Islam as a fellow monotheist religion, nor just the fear which Islam inspires. Churchmen have the (correct) impression that the Pagan alternative, though softer and weaker than Islam in a confrontational sense, ultimately has a stronger appeal to the educated Western mind. They calculate that the better-educated mankind of the next century will typically go the way of today’s European intellectuals, rather than the way of today’s Black Muslims or Christian Dalits.

Islam’s money and muscle power may look impressive, certainly capable of doing some real damage to targeted countries and societies, but Islam has no chance of becoming the religion of a science-based, space-conquering world society. Exclusivist revelations have no appeal among educated people, especially after they have acquainted themselves with the Vedantic or Buddhist philosophies. That is why the Churches are investing huge resources in the battle for Asia’s mind, where they face their most formidable enemy. That is why they are so active in India: not only is India’s atmosphere of religious freedom more hospitable to them than the conditions of Islamic countries, or even of non-Islamic countries where proselytization is prohibited (countries as divergent as China, Myanmar, Israel, and, at least formally, Nepal); but they also know and fear the intrinsic superiority of the Indian religion.

The role of disputed places of worship

In the present struggle to death which Christianity is waging against Hinduism, is it any use for Hindus to rake up disputes over usurped places of worship? Or, as Christians who have the preservation of their churches in mind, are wont to ask: isn’t one Babri Masjid problem enough?

The Hindu response should be in proportion to the seriousness of the matter. Within the hierarchy of Hindu sacred places, I don’t think that any of the most important ones has been usurped by Christianity, the Mylapore Shiva Temple being (with due respect) of secondary rank; though I admit that this is all relative. Of course, the Church itself is welcome to make a move and offer the stolen places of worship back. In fact, until the Church voluntarily offers to give some of its illegitimate property back, there is every reason to be skeptical about its protestations of a “new spirit of dialogue”. However, in my opinion, it may be wasteful and strategically counterproductive to start clamouring for the return of stolen places of worship.

Hindu society should be more ambitious. A place of worship may be an important focus for mobilization and consciousness-raising (vide Ayodhya), but it is hardly important in itself.[24] Better to go for the big one: attract the worshippers, and they will bring the places of worship along with them. Not the places but the offerers of worship are to be liberated from Christianity.

The fate of Hindu sacred sites at the hands of Christian missionaries, as a piece of significant historical  information, may have a certain auxiliary role to play in this process of consciousness-raising. Their ruins are witnesses to the antireligious and destructive edge of a Church which now advertises itself in India as the bringer of progress and social justice. A formal “liberation of sacred sites” need not be put on the agenda, but the Hindus have every right to insist on a mental and verbal breakthrough: Christians must acknowledge the historical fact that, from Bethlehem to Madras, most of their sacred sites are booty won in campaigns of fraud and destruction. Since their theology urges a sense of sinfulness and guilt anyway, they should not find it too difficult to make such a confession.

Notes:

1. We do not hear about the Christian problem because the mainstream “secular” media is either Christian owned or Christian controlled. – IS
2. Joan Taylor: Christians and the Holy Places, Oxford University Press 1993.
3. Michael Arnheim: Is Christianity True?, Duckworth & Co., London 1984.
4. The church is known today as the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. It was built to enclose the alleged sites of the cross and the tomb which were believed to the close to each other. Its first building was dedicated ca. 336 A.D.
5. In their own version of the winter solstice, the Romans celebrated December 25th as the birthday of Mithra, the Sun of Righteousness, at the close of their most popular festival, the week-long Saturnalia. January 1st was then celebrated as the beginning of the New Year. The contention of Protestant fundamentalists that Christmas, the New Year and Easter are Pagan festivals is correct. The names of the days of the week and months of the year in the Western “Christian” calendar are also of Pagan origin, as is the choice of Sunday as the designated holy day.
6. The Indian Express, true to its current negationist editorial policy, continues to publish sentimentalized and misleading articles about this missionary and his Lutheran counterpart Bartholomeus Ziegenbalg, and about Portuguese churches built on temple sites, in its features pages. These missionaries and others are presented as lovers of and contributors to Tamil learning and culture, when in fact they came to India with the sole intention of destroying both. Prof. Maria Lazar, the author of a Ziegenbalg piece, has also done an article on Hindu craftsmen who manufacture images of Christian saints, and sententiously comments that this is a much needed example of religious tolerance today. Hindu craftsmen doing this kind of work are not unusual in Tamil Nadu and Kerala, and real religious tolerance will be seen in South India when Christian craftsmen start making images of Hindu deities with the same dedication and respect. – IS
7. The phenomenon of Christian violence against Hindus in South India, generally ignored by Western India-watchers, is briefly mentioned by Susan Bayly in her (otherwise anti-Hindu) article: “History and the Fundamentalists: India after the Ayodhya Crisis”, in Bulletin of the Academy of Arts and Sciences, April 1993. The problem has hardly been documented by Hindu organizations, with their usual slothfulness in gathering and providing information. One of the few exceptions is Thanulinga Nadar: Unrest at Kanyakumari, Hindu Munnani, Kanyakumari 1982.
8. In Roman days and long afterwards, “India” was practically synonymous with “Asia”, from Ethiopia to Japan. Columbus expected to reach Zipangu (ChineseRibenguo, “land of the sun’s origin”, i.e. Japan), and when he thought he got there, he called the inhabitants “Indians”.
9. 9] Pope John-Paul II had even announced a comprehensive statement of the Church’s guilt by the year 2000. This provoked a lot of protest from other Church dignitaries.
10. Arun Shourie: Missionaries in India: Continuities, Changes, Dilemmas (ASA Publ., New Delhi 1994), p.229. The book is an expanded version of his lectures before a conference called by the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of India. Its publication provoked a new round of debate (rather less friendly, this time) of which the proceedings are being published by Voice of India: Arun Shourie and His Christian Critic.
11. ibid.
12. Op.cit., p.234-235. A study yet to be written might usefully add some research into the complicity of Indian politicians. Thus, I know a Jesuit missionary working in Chhotanagpur, expelled from India by the Rajiv Gandhi administration because of political agitation. Back in Belgium, already preparing to move to another country, he received news that the new (Janata Dal) government would extend help to whomever the Hindus disliked; he applied for a visa and is now back among his flock practising Liberation Theology. I won’t doubt the man’s honesty (“I was only agitating against the redeployment of tigers in the jungle by urban ecologists who value wildlife more than tribal people!”), but the point is that any Christian agitation and intrigue will be supported by other factions of India’s colourful anti-Hindu coalition.
13. Published in Link, the bimonthly newsletter of the WCC’s “Programme to Combat Racism”, 1989/4.
14. This is not to deny the merits of some Christians at some stages in the struggle against slavery, e.g. the Jesuits in Brazil and Paraguay in the 17th and 18th century, and the Quakers in the USA in the 19th century. But remark that the Jesuit efforts were stopped by the Church itself, and that in the 18th century, the Quakers had been quite well-represented among slave-owners themselves. Christianity as a doctrine cannot claim the honour of freeing the oppressed.
15. For a synthesis of the findings of critical Bible scholarship with the proper logical conclusions, however, we have to refer to studies by non-Christian or ex-Christian scholars, because Christians tend to avoid the consequences of their findings (e.g. by claiming that “the Jesus of history” is unknowable and unimportant). See e.g. Michael Arnheim: op.cit.; Robin Lane-Fox: The Unauthorized Version. Truth and Fiction in the Bible, Viking, London 1991; and Herman Somers: Jezus de Messias: Was het Christendom een Vergissing? (“Jesus the Messiah: Was Christianity a Mistake?”), EPO, Antwerp 1986.
16. For example Jacques Maritain’s seminal book Humanisme Integral (1936); the title should ring a bell among Hindu nationalist ideologues professing “integral humanism”.
17. Ase is the ancient Germanic word for “God”, cognate to Sanskrit Asura (which simply meant “Lord” before the wars between the Vedic people and the Asura-worshipping Iranians gave it a negative meaning).
18. Godi, like its Sanskrit cognate hotr, means “worshipping priest”; hence the related Germanic word God, “the worshipped one”. In 1993, he was succeeded by Thorstein Gudjonsson. The Asatr Society publishes a periodical, Huginn ok Muhinn, PO Box 1159, IS-121 Reykjavik.
19. Lithuania, even more than Iceland, has a fair claim to some threads of continuity with historical Paganism because of its late christianization.
20. Historians are gradually bringing more reliable information to light, a prime example being Ronald Hutton: The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles, Blackwell, Oxford 1993. Often, this research highlights both the limitations of our knowledge of ancient Paganism, and the distance between the original and the imagined Paganism (esp. Druidry) of Theosophy or the Wicca movement. It certainly makes neo-Pagans envy the comfortable situation of Hindus with their uninterrupted age-old tradition.
21. Iceland News, April 1994.
22. See Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger’s Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of Christian Meditation, and Pope John Paul’s Mission of the Redeemer: John Paul II on the Permanent Validity of the Church’s Missionary Mandate. Hindu and Buddhist intellectuals who fancy that they are in dialogue with the Jesuits, and Liberal Catholics who still believe that the declarations of the Second Vatican Council regarding non-Christian religions are valid, should study these documents carefully. Copies are available from St. Paul Publications, Bandra, Bombay. – IS
23. For example, in May 1993, a lecture series on Islam, organized by a Catholic foundation, and in which I (K.E.) was one of the speakers, was prohibited at the last minute by the authorities of the Jesuit University in Antwerp.
24. This is not true for the Hindu, who may believe a particular site to be sacred for a variety of reasons and continue to visit it even after a mosque or church has encroached on the consecrated area (as in the case of Ayodhya and Velankanni). However, the point being made here is well-taken. – IS

Further Reading:

1. Review of Christians and the Holy Places - Thomas A. Idinopulos

---

From: Pardip Kumar Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>
To: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011, 2:51
Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

I guess there are jokers in all societies and yes, we must learn to remove jokers from becoming the thinkers for grand philosophies and religions like Hinduism and Sanatana Dharma. Jokers have no place and we must not give time space nor time to entertain us with such garbage as written by P. Radhakrishnan.

Best Regards

Pardip

"SAY NO TO RACISM"

From: Anil Bhanot Global Hindu Council <bhano...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:41:15 +0100
To: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>, bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>, "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>, GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>, Harish Kotecha USA <kot...@yahoo.com>, Pardip Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>, "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>, "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>, "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>, "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>, "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>, "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>, "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>, "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>, "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>, "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>, "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>, "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>, "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>, "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>, "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>, "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>, "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>, "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>, "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>, "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>, "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>, "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>, "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>, "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>, "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>, "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>, "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>, "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>, "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>, "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>, "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>, "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>, "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>, "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>, "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>, "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>, "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>, "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>, "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>, "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>, "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>, "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>, "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>, "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>, "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>, "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>, "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>, "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>, "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>, "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>, "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>, "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>, "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>, "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>, "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>, "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>, "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>, "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

This is why greater organisation is needed to debunk people like this P Radhakrishanan who harm Hindus from the inside, his write up below is full of hatred for the Hindu Dharma which he clearly does not understand but them goes on to spread his diatribe to confuse other Hindus.  

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

TAT TVAM ASI

 

             The three Sanskrit words, tat tvam asi (thou art that), are regarded as the core of Hinduism. It means, Jivatma (individual soul) is also paramatma (God or universal soul).  In other words, man himself is God. The Bible says that the Devil tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit so that man could become god. How can man become god? Everybody wants to be god. Hindu concept of ‘You are God’ is only a fanciful thought and practically it will not be possible for a man to become god. If this concept is true, how can we call a rapist, a murderer, a terrorist a god?  Man is man; god is god.  In actual reality there are three hundred and thirty millions of gods in Hinduism. As Nehru says: “The Brahman priests had introduced all manner of rites and pujas and superstition, for the more there is of puja the more do the priests flourish. Caste was becoming stricter, and the common people were frightened by omens and spells and witchcraft and quackery.” Ambedkar points out in his book writings and speeches that the Hindu scriptures tell us that the famous god, Krishna, had sixteen thousand one hundred and eight wives, apart from his legitimate seven wives. He also says that the Hindu scriptures also tell us about the sexual debauchery of other gods like Siva, Indra, Brahma and Vishnu. And yet, to sell Hinduism in the West, Hindu leaders like Vivekananda, Radhakrishnan, Sri Ravi Shanker, Deepak Chopra, Bikram Choudhary  and others camouflage the nature and activities of the real gods and goddesses of Hinduism and project Hinduism as a religion of love and ahimsa. They take a sentence or words uttered by the characters of the mythological epics like the Ramayana or Mahabharata and give their own interpretation, studded with ideas heavily borrowed from Christianity, science, psychology and Western philosophy. As for instance, hiding the violence, deceit and duplicity in the Mahabaharata, they highlight a dialogue between Krishna and Arjuna in the battlefield, calling it Bhagavad Gita or Song of the Lord. Real character of Hindu gods and goddesses is masked. Christian ideals of love, justice, kindness, sacrifice and fellowship as well as psychology, science and Western philosophy are laced with the utterances of these characters to give a modern and cultured outlook to Hinduism. What has got quantum physics and Freudian psychology to do with primitive, mythological Hindu epics? But that is the strategy by which ancient Hinduism is projected to the westerners by interpolating whatever is modern in the West. Radhakrishnan studied philosophy in Madras Christian College, and he lavishly quotes Bradley, Spinoza, Hegel, Bergsen and other Western philosophers while interpreting primeval Hinduism and thereby gives an artificial modern outlook. Instead of giving the names of rapacious Hindu gods, he uses the term ‘supreme universal spirit’ or the‘Absolute’ while referring to god. Vivekananda studied at Scottish Church College, Kolkota. When he addressed the Parliament of Religions at Chicago, he presented Christianized Hinduism, deliberately avoiding the depravity of Gods and cruel rites in Hinduism such as female infanticide, caste cruelty and barbarous customs like Sati in Hinduism. In his own state Bengal hundreds of young widows were being burnt alive when Vivekanada was lecturing in European countries on love and kindness in Hinduism. All religions of the world give importance to the activities of gods. But Hinduism thrives only on the basis of commentaries and interpretations by masking the wicked deeds of gods and barbarous Hindu rites such as burning of widows (sati), caste tyranny by which millions were killed without any trial and stifling superstition. Jaimini and Badarayana were responsible for the formulation of Vedic beliefs. The original Hindu scriptures such as the Vedas, the Ramayana and Bhagavad-Gita are packed with violent acts [ the Vedas deal with the savagery of the marauding Aryans and the suppression of native inhabitants, collectively calling them as dasas, mlechas and chandalas , the Ramayana deals with the expansion of the Aryans in the south and the war with the Dravidian Chief, Ravana and the killings of non-Aryans who were called demons,  and the Mahabharata deals with the intrigues,, conspiracies and wars  among the Aryan tribes]. So none of these sacred books of the Hindus advocates love, non-violence, fellowship and tolerance. It was to mask the cruel acts of gods in  Hinduism  that Jamini produced the Mimansa and Badarayana produced the Brahma Sutras.  Sayancharya produced a commentary on the Vedas, completely hiding  the caste hatred, conflicts and selfish pursuits of the invading Aryans.  The ancient religious doctrines of the Upanishads were reduced to an elaborate system of philosophy by Badarayana under the title of Vedanta Sutras. Although there is no philosophica thought in the original Hindu scriptures, by interpretation and commentary seven schools od philosophical thought were interposed only after the Christian era. The other interpreters were Sankara (about AD 820), Ramanuja (AD 1137) and Madhava (AD1276). All these interpretations and commentaries took place after the birth of Christianity.  Christianity was active in India in first century AD itself when Thomas,the disciple of Jesus, came to India and established several churches for the converts. Sankara was from Kerala and he was familiar with the teachings of Jesus which he came to know from the Christian community living in his neighbourhood. The production of commentaries led on the one hand to a tradition of interpretation, and on the other to several variants in interpretation. Thestrategy adopted to carry out this objective is to hide all the acts of gods and goddesses in the Hindu scriptures and to  project the Upanishads, the last book of the Vedas, as the new face of Hinduism. Tat tvam asi or Thou art That is a phrase in the Upanishads and it means that the individual soul (atman) is to be identified with the Supreme soul (Brahman) atma or identifiesmerges with the paramatma.  Obviously,  it is not a wise and practical  conception, for man can never become god. If men are also gods, planet earth will be a paradise.  It is a clever strategy to attract all to Hinduism by propagating this sweet-coated concept. Ambedkar says: “As to philosophy there is nothing of it in the Rig Veda.” Prof. Horace Hayman Wilson was a great Sanskrit scholar and Secretary of the Asiatic Society.   Wilson observes: “There is in the Rig-Veda, which is the stock Veda, scarcely any indication or doctrinal or philosophical speculation, no allusion to the later notions of the several schools, nor is there any hint of metempsychosis or of the doctrine intimately allied to it, of the repeated renovation of the world. The Vedas may be useful as a source of information regarding the social life of the Aryans. As a picture of primitive life it is full of curiosity but there is nothing elevating. There are more vices and a few virtues. “How many Ramayanas? Three hundred? Three thousand? At the end of some Ramayanas, a question is sometimes asked: How many Ramayanas have there been?" wondered the late poet and scholar A.K.Ramanujan of the Indian epic in a compelling essay he wrote for a University of Pittsburgh conference in 1987.

 

                 

 

 

 

[Trishool]

My personal view is that Hindus or the Sanatani's or Vaidic Philosophy lacks the Political Will to spread the message. The main reason for that could be the concept of "Moksha"(मोक्ष), where in an Individual can attain it. 

Any other view points or comments!!!!

SURRENDER TO INJUSTICE, IS NOT MOKSHA, NEITHER TEACHINGS OF HINDU PHILOSOPHY. !

Our Hindu leaders divided our motherland, in 1947, on foolish, grounds,

CHINA KILLED MILLIONS OF SUCH ELEMENTS, BUT DID NOT DIVIDE SOIL OF CHINA. !

trishool 

---

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

To: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>

Cc: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 1:23 AM

[Rabinder Koul]

Radhakrishnan:

First of all what ever you have written below is an infantile attempt, like all Christen evangelist who are themselves barely High-school drop outs. If you had the capacity to understand Dharma, you would not have not converted to Christianity.  The reason I have concluded about your incapacity is from your email I will try to make it simple far you, as simple as if I am explaining to a minor Hindu Child. I have grave doubts that even then you will be understand it. But then I must try to in sympathy and compassion for a lost cause.

First of all Dharma is not religion. The notion of religion is not a universal notion, except for the Semitic and "Mandha Buddhi" who get converted. Chinese, Indians, American Indians, none have religion as part of their category. This Category is an artificial construct and has no value.  Soul is not an Dharma Category. Christians and the christianized slaves have the habit of seeing the world in their own ugly and False image. (Why False I will take up in below.  You see even a wise person seeing through Green glasses sees world green. In your case you are only merely Christian, you will never imagine that the colr of the world is because of your glasses.

Why the Christian notion of GOD is illogical and self contradictory.

First of all the 

1. God as defined within Christism is only an instrumental cause and not a material cause, that is endowed with the following characteristics. 
1. It is Omni potent 
2. It is Omni-Present
3. It is Omniscient.

Since you define God as Omni Potent , let us ask a question of the God, in connection with his Omnipotence.

Question:

Can God create a stone heavy enough that he cannot lift it?

Analysis and the Contradiction:

Since, as Christists say, God is Omnipotent so he must be able to create such a stone. However since he created such a stone, he can not lift it, as that was the type of the stone he was supposed to create. But since he can lift the stone so he is not Omnipotent. 

On the other hand if he can not create such a stone, he can not be Omnipotent. 

Hence it is not possible for the Christist God to be OmniPotent, since it is a contradictory category, hence a false category. If your so called God cannot be Omni potent, (he become impotent,) hence cannot exit

So Christian God is not OmniPotent, hence Christian God can not exist. Since it had to be Omnipotent to be a Christian God.

QED

Question:

Can Christist God be OmniPresent?:

Let us assume that Christist God is Omnipresent. Then ask the question, as to where in you or any of the external existent there is something which is not God? If you say that theuniverse or its objects are different from God, then God is not their, since it is only the difference that will allow something else to exist. Hence either the whole of this Universe is God or God is not. Since Christist claim that Universe is seprate from God, & Universe is not God, then Christist God can not be can not exit. Hence he can not be omnipresent.

Conclusion: Christian Notion of God is False, hence does not exit.

QED

Question:

Can God be simultaneously Omni-potent as well as Omni-present?

Analysis and the contradiction:

Let ask a question of the gOd. Can God create a space where he can not exist? Since he is Omnipotent, he should be able to create such a space. But if he creates such a space, then he can not be there by construction. Hence Christian God can not be Omni-present and Omni-potent at the same time. Already we have shown that he can not be Omnipotent, and can not be Omnipresent. Hence Christian God dies not exit. Hence Christianity ends up in contradiction, NADa..

Hence Christianity is founded on false wrong and contradictory notions. 

QED

None of the above contradictions are applicable to Dharma, so rest assured you will fail miserably if you try to extend it. So stay quite or come back to the fold of thought and wisdom.

You translations and interpretations of Tat Tvam Asi ion terms of God is your stupidity and ignorance. If you want to understand, bow your head in humility, ask for the forgiveness for attempting to spread ignorance, then may be some one on this forum will grace you with Knowledge.

Ravindra Koul

अस्मद्रूपसमाविष्ठ: स्वात्मनात्मानिवारणे 

शिव: करोतु निजया नम: शक्त्या ततात्मने 

[Anil Bhanot]

P Radhakrishnan, Why are you participating in a Hindu discussion? This is not your place. You must learn not to trespass, otherwise your prayer is just a sham, you are fooling your own God when you say 'forgive us for our trespasses' which is exactly what you are taught to do and have done for millennia and history bears a witness to that. As for true history things are finally moving in the right direction under democracy, under 21st century - which you mention but your idaes are of the dark middle ages of the West - and for your information several professors from Western universities now are re-writing the fallacies you seem to be so proud of and in turn are showing signs of giving space, historically, to Ramayana and Mahabharata. India may not havethe will yet partly due to people like you but rest assured truth will out. You may keep fooling yourself but please don't do so in this Hindu thread.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

There is nothing new in the lengthy narrative of Kooenrad Elst. Christian historical records are solid proof to rebut the imaginary findings of Elst. The very fact that Jerusalem is the hot topic of international discussion even in the 21st century shows the authenticity and continuity of Judaeo-Christian culture. There is no need for further proof. 

---

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

To: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

[Arjun]

what just because Jerusalem is in the news because of the Palestinian and Israeli issue that suddenly that becomes proof of the imaginary figure of thomas in india ? You on drugs or you taking some treatment because the bible is itself has been debunked as nonsense so maybe you need to debunk your brain ..But the only hot topic that is true about the church and its historical records is its indulgence in paedophilia so maybe thats what you are involved in looking for victims on a  hindu group thread .

---

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
To: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011, 13:03

[Arjun]

heres a long narrative the little brown slave RK must be familiar with reading that toilet rag everyday

Rape In The Bible

 

    Rape is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable.  Yet few people know that the Bible often condones and even approves of rape.  How anyone can get their moral guidance from a book that allows rape escapes me.  Perhaps they have been lied to about the Bible and carefully detoured around all the nasty stuff in the Bible.

 

    So grab your Bibles and follow along as I show you all the nasty rapes that your priests and preachers don't want to tell you about.  Note that in many places in the Bible there are references to "taking a wife".  Don't be fooled into thinking that these were voluntary marriages.  This first quote clearly shows that murder and force were used to "take" these wives. 

 

1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead  (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

 

    So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children.  "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin."  Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

 

    The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives.  But there were not enough women for all of them.  The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel.  So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead?  There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever.  But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."

 

    Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem.  They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards.  When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife!  And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding.  Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'"  So the men of Benjamin did as they were told.  They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance.  Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them.  So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

 

    Obviously these women were repeatedly raped.  These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more.  How can anyone see this as anything but evil?

 

2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites    (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

 

    They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men.  All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle.  They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.  Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder.  They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived.  After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

 

    Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp.  But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded.  "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

 

Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.

 

3) More Murder Rape and Pillage   (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

 

     As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace.  If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor.  But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town.  When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town.  But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder.  You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

 

What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?

 

4) Laws of Rape   (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

 

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

 

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker?  Answer: God.

 

5) Death to the Rape Victim   (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

 

    If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

 

    It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim.  He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".

 

6) David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

 

    Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house.  I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor.  He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight.  You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'

    Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord."  Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die.  But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die."  [The child dies seven days later.]

 

    This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible.  God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist.  What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil?  And then he kills a child!  This is sick, really sick!

 

7)  Rape of Female Captives   (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

 

    "When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house.  But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb.  After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife.  However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
 

    Once again God approves of forcible rape.

 

8)  Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)

 

    They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.   (Judges 5:30 NAB)

 

9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

 

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.   (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

 

10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

 

    Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst.  And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.   (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

 

Slavery in the Bible

 

    Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do.  Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments.  The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.

 

    Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants.  Many translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is.  While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.

 

    The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

 

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.  (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

 

    The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.

 

    If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years.  Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom.  If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year.  But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him.  If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master.  But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children.  I would rather not go free.'  If he does this, his master must present him before God.  Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl.  After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.  (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

 

    Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave.  What kind of family values are these?

 

    The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery.  How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

 

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.  (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

 

    So these are the Bible family values!  A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

 

    What does the Bible say about beating slaves?  It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

 

    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.  (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

 

    You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

 

    Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.  (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

 

    Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.  (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

 

    In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

 

    The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it.  "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly.  Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."  (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:

 

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

 

Kill Witches

    You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

 

Kill Homosexuals
    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

 

Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

 

Death for Hitting Dad

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

 

Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

 

Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

 

Death for Fornication

    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

 

Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

 

Kill Nonbelievers

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

 

Kill False Prophets

    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

 

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

 

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

 

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

 

    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

 

Death for Blasphemy

    One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men.  During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name.  So the man was brought to Moses for judgment.  His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan.  They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear.  Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head.  Then let the entire community stone him to death.  Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished.  Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel.  Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.  (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

 

Kill False Prophets

    1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles,  and the predicted signs or miracles take place.  If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them.  The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul.  Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone.  Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him.  The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt.  Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you.  (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

 

    2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.'  You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?'  If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message.  That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.  (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

 

Infidels and Gays Should Die

    So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.  As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies.  Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.  So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever.  Amen.  That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires.  Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.  When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful.  They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway.  And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.  (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

 

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

    For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.  You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment.  They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it.  Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again.  Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.'  (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

 

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

 

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2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:

 

Kill Brats

    From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.  "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!"  The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord.  Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.  (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

 

God Kills the Curious 

    And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter.  And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us?   (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

 

Killed by a Lion

    Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!"  But the man refused to strike the prophet.  Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me."  And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.  (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

 

Killing the Good Samaritan

    The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill.  Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

    When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip.  But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God.  (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

 

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3) Murdering Children

 

Kill Sons of Sinners

    Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.  (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

 

God Will Kill Children

    The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived.  Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you.  It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone.  I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre.  But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered."  O LORD, what should I request for your people?  I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk.  The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them.  I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions.  I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels.  The people of Israel are stricken.  Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.  And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children."  (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

 

Kill Men, Women, and Children

    "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple."  So they began by killing the seventy leaders.  "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded.  "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!  Go!"  So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."  (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

 

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

    And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.  Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.  (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

 

Kill Old Men and Young Women

    "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD.  "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms.  With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer.  With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens.  With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers.  "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD.  "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth!  I am your enemy," says the LORD.  "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights.  When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble.  You will be desolate forever.  Even your stones will never again be used for building.  You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD.  (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

     (Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter.  So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

 

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

    If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.  I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.  (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

 

More Rape and Baby Killing

    Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

 

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4) Miscellaneous Murders

 

More of Samson's Murders

    (The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.)  When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands.  Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men.  (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)

 

Peter Kills Two People

    There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property.  He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount.  His wife had agreed to this deception.  Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart?  You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself.  The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished.  And after selling it, the money was yours to give away.  How could you do a thing like this?  You weren't lying to us but to God."  As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died.  Everyone who heard about it was terrified.  Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him.  About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.  Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?"  "Yes," she replied, "that was the price."  And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord?  Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too."  Instantly, she fell to the floor and died.  When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.  Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened.   (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)

 

Mass Murder

    This is what the Lord of  hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt.  Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban.  Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.'   (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

 

You Have to Kill

    Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.  (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

 

The Danites Kill the Next Town

    But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword.  Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan.  (Joshua 19:47 NAB)

 

God Kills Some More

    Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them.  Away with them!  Get them out of my sight!  And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.'  "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them," says the LORD.  "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left.  Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth."  (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)

 

God Promises More Killing 

    I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return.  I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword.  I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD.  (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)

 

The Angel of Death

    My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out.  (Exodus 23:23 NAB)

 

Destruction of Ai

    Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged.  Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land.  You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city."  So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai.  Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action.  When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them.  We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.'  Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you.  Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded.  You have your orders."  So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai.  But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night. 

    Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel.  They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city.  That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city.  So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city.  Joshua himself spent that night in the valley.  When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley.  But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city.  Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten,  and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them.  In this way, they were lured away from the city.  There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open. 

    Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city."  Joshua did as he was commanded.  As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city.  They quickly captured it and set it on fire.  When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers.  When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai.  Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped.  Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.

    When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside.  So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all.  For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed.  Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua.  So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day.  Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate.  They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today.  (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)

 

Killing at Jericho

    When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it.  They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything.  (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)

 

God Kills an Extended Family

    "You have done more evil than all who lived before you.  You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves.  And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike.  I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone.  I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'"  Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam's wife, "Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die.  All Israel will mourn for him and bury him.  He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam.  And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam.  This will happen today, even now!  Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream.  He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles.  He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him."  (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)

 

Mass Murder

    The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon.  Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon.  (Judges 20:48 NAB)

 

The Angel of Death

    That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp.  Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead.  (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)

 

Kill Your Neighbors

    (Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came.  He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors."  The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day.  Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing."  (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

 

Kill the Family of Sinners

    And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me.  And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done.  When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it."  [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.]  "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it.  And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD.  And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor.  And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us?  the LORD shall trouble thee this day.  And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.  And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day.  So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day.  (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible)

 

Kill Followers of Other Religions

    While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women.  These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab.  Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people.  The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel."  So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor.  Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle.  When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly.  Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach.  So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died.  (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)

 

Murder

    At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command.  O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself."  Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust.  It even licked up all the water in the ditch!  And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God!  The LORD is God!"  Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal.  Don't let a single one escape!"  So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there.  (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)

 

Kill All of Babylon

    "Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge!  Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD.  "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".   (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)

 

Micah Kills a Whole Town 

    Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure.  They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground.  There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby.  This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there.  They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish.  (Judges 18:27-29 NLT)  (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)

 

 

biblical Contradictions

 

    Here is a short and incomplete list of Biblical contradictions

 

    If the Bible was divinely inspired, then why would it have so many really obvious contradictions?

 

Theological doctrines:

     1. God is satisfied with his works
         Gen 1:31
        God is dissatisfied with his works. 
         Gen 6:6
     2. God dwells in chosen temples
         2 Chron 7:12,16
        God dwells not in temples
         Acts 7:48
     3. God dwells in light
         Tim 6:16
        God dwells in darkness
         1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
     4. God is seen and heard
         Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
          Ex 24:9-11
        God is invisible and cannot be heard
         John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
     5. God is tired and rests
         Ex 31:17
        God is never tired and never rests
         Is 40:28
     6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
         Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
        God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all     
        things
         Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
     7. God knows the hearts of men
         Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
        God tries men to find out what is in their heart
         Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
     8. God is all powerful
         Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
       God is not all powerful
         Judg 1:19
     9. God is unchangeable
         James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
        God is changeable
         Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
          Ex 33:1,3,17,14
     10. God is just and impartial
          Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
         God is unjust and partial
          Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
     11. God is the author of evil
          Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
         God is not the author of evil
          1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
     12. God gives freely to those who ask
          James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
         God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving   
         them
          John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
     13. God is to be found by those who seek him
          Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
         God is not to be found by those who seek him
          Prov 1:28
     14. God is warlike
          Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
         God is peaceful
          Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
     15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
          Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
         God is kind, merciful, and good
          James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/ 
           1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
     16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
          Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
         God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
          Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
     17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,  
         sacrifices ,and holy days
          Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
         God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,   
         sacrifices, and holy days.
          Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
     18. God accepts human sacrifices
          2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
         God forbids human sacrifice
          Deut 12:30,31
     19. God tempts men
          Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
         God tempts no man
          James 1:13
     20. God cannot lie
          Heb 6:18
         God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
          2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
     21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
          Gen 6:5,7
         Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
          Gen 8:21
     22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
          Rom 1:20
         God's attributes cannot be discovered
          Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
     23. There is but one God
          Deut 6:4
         There is a plurality of gods
          Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7
 

Moral Precepts

     24. Robbery commanded
          Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
         Robbery forbidden
          Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
     25. Lying approved and sanctioned
          Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
         Lying forbidden
          Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
     26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
          2 Kings 14:7,3
         Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
          Deut 23:7
     27. Killing commanded
          Ex 32:27
         Killing forbidden
          Ex 20:13
     28. The blood-shedder must die
          Gen 9:5,6
         The blood-shedder must not die
          Gen 4:15
     29. The making of images forbidden
           Ex 20:4
         The making of images commanded
          Ex 25:18,20
     30. Slavery and oppression ordained
          Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
         Slavery and oppression forbidden
          Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
     31. Improvidence enjoyed
          Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
         Improvidence condemned
          1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
     32. Anger approved
          Eph 4:26
         Anger disapproved
          Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
     33. Good works to be seen of men
          Matt 5:16
         Good works not to be seen of men
          Matt 6:1
     34. Judging of others forbidden
          Matt 7:1,2
         Judging of others approved
          1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
      35. Christ taught non-resistance
          Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
         Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
          Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
     36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
          Luke 12:4
         Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
          John 7:1
     37. Public prayer sanctioned
          1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
         Public prayer disapproved
          Matt 6:5,6
     38. Importunity in prayer commended
          Luke 18:5,7
         Importunity in prayer condemned
          Matt 6:7,8
     39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
          Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
         The wearing of long hair by men condemned
          1 Cor 11:14
     40. Circumcision instituted
          Gen 17:10
         Circumcision condemned
          Gal 5:2
     41. The Sabbath instituted
          Ex 20:8
         The Sabbath repudiated
          Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
     42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
          Ex 20:11
         The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites    
         out of Egypt
          Deut 5:15
     43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
          Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
         Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in 
         the same
          John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
     44. Baptism commanded
          Matt 28:19
         Baptism not commanded
          1 Cor 1:17,14
     45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
          Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
         Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
          Deut 14:7,8
      46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
          Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
         Taking of oaths forbidden
          Matt 5:34
     47. Marriage approved
          Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
         Marriage disapproved
          1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
     48. Freedom of divorce permitted
          Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
         Divorce restricted
          Matt 5:32
     49. Adultery forbidden
          Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
         Adultery allowed
          Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
     50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
          Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
         Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
          Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
     51. A man may marry his brother's widow
          Deut 25:5
         A man may not marry his brother's widow
          Lev 20:21
     52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
          Luke 14:26
         Hatred to kindred condemned
          Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
     53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
          Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
         Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
          Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
     54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers   
         and punish evil doers only
          Rom 13:1-3,6
         It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the  
         good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
          Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
           Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
     55. Women's rights denied
          Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
         Women's rights affirmed
          Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
     56. Obedience to masters enjoined
          Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
         Obedience due to God only
          Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
     57. There is an unpardonable sin
          Mark 3:29
         There is not unpardonable sin
          Acts 13:39
 

Historical Facts

     58. Man was created after the other animals
          Gen 1:25,26,27
         Man was created before the other animals
          Gen 2:18,19
     59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease
          Gen 8:22
         Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years
          Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6
     60. God hardened Pharaoh's heart
          Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12
         Pharaoh hardened his own heart
          Ex 8:15
     61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died
          Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
       All the horses of Egypt did not die
          Ex 14:9
     62. Moses feared Pharaoh
          Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19
         Moses did not fear Pharaoh
          Heb 11:27
     63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand
          Num 25:9
         There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand
          1 Cor 10:8
     64. John the Baptist was Elias
          Matt 11:14
         John the Baptist was not Elias
          John 1:21
     65. The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob
          Matt 1:16
         The father of Mary's husband was Heli
          Luke 3:23
     66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad
          Gen 11:12
         The father of Salah was Cainan
          Luke 3:35,36
     67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David
          Matt 1:17
         There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David
          Matt 1:2-6
     68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity
         to Christ.
          Matt 1:17
         There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian      
         captivity to Christ
          Matt 1:12-16
     69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
          Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
         The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
          Luke 2:22, 39
     70. Christ was tempted in the wilderness
          Mark 1:12,13
         Christ was not tempted in the wilderness
          John 2:1,2
     71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
          Matt 5:1,2
         Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
          Luke 6:17,20
     72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
          Mark 1:14
         John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
          John 1:43/ John 3:22-24
     73. Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff   
         and sandals
          Mark 6:8,9
         Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither
         staffs nor sandals.
          Matt 10:9,10
     74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
          Matt 15:22
         It was a Greek woman who besought Him
          Mark 7:26
     75. Two blind men besought Jesus
          Matt 20:30
         Only one blind man besought Him
          Luke 18:35,38
     76. Christ was crucified at the third hour
          Mark 15:25
         Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
          John 19:14,15
     77. The two thieves reviled Christ.
          Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32
         Only one of the thieves reviled Christ
          Luke 23:39,40
     78. Satan entered into Judas while at supper
          John 13:27
         Satan entered into him before the supper
          Luke 22:3,4,7
     79. Judas committed suicide by hanging
          Matt 27:5
         Judas did not hang himself, but died another way
          Acts 1:18
     80. The potter's field was purchased by Judas
          Acts 1:18
         The potter's field was purchased by the Chief Priests
          Matt 27:6,7
     81. There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre
          John 20:1
         There were two women who came to the sepulchre
          Matt 28:1
     82. There were three women who came to the sepulchre
          Mark 16:1
         There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre
          Luke 24:10
     83. It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre
          Mark 16:2
        It was some time before sunrise when they came.
          John 20:1
     84. There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and
         they were standing up.
          Luke 24:4
         There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down.
          Matt 28:2,5
     85. There were two angels seen within the sepulchre.
          John 20:11,12
         There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre
          Mark 16:5
     86. Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave
          Matt 12:40
         Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
          Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>
     87. Holy ghost bestowed at pentecost
          Acts 1:8,5
         Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost
          John 20:22
     88. The disciples were commanded immediately after the           
         resurrection to go into Galilee
          Matt 28:10
         The disciples were commanded immediately after the           
         resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem
          Luke 24:49
     89. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at    
         Jerusalem
          Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
         Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee
          Matt 28:16,17
     90. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet
          Acts 1:9,12
         Christ ascended from Bethany
          Luke 24:50,51
     91. Paul's attendants heard the miraculous voice, and stood      
         speechless
          Acts 9:7
         Paul's attendants heard not the voice and were prostrate
          Acts 26:14
     92. Abraham departed to go into Canaan
          Gen 12:5
         Abraham went not knowing where
          Heb 11:8
     93. Abraham had two sons
          Gal 4:22
         Abraham had but one son
          Heb 11:17
     94. Keturah was Abraham's wife
          Gen 25:1
         Keturah was Abraham's concubine
          1 Chron 1:32
     95. Abraham begat a son when he was a hundred years old, by the  
         interposition of Providence
          Gen 21:2/ Rom 4:19/ Heb 11:12
         Abraham begat six children more after he was a hundred years 
         old without any interposition of providence
          Gen 25:1,2
     96. Jacob bought a sepulchre from Hamor
          Josh 24:32
         Abraham bought it of Hamor
          Acts 7:16
     97. God promised the land of Canaan to Abraham and his seed      
         forever
          Gen 13:14,15,17; 17:8
         Abraham and his seed never received the promised land
          Acts 7:5/ Heb 11:9,13
     98. Goliath was slain by Elhanan
          2 Sam 21:19 *note, was changed in translation to be        
           correct.  Original manuscript was incorrect>
         The brother of Goliath was slain by Elhanan
          1 Chron 20:5
     99. Ahaziah began to reign in the twelfth year of Joram
          2 Kings 8:25
         Ahaziah began to reign in the eleventh year of Joram
          2 Kings 9:29
     100. Michal had no child
           2 Sam 6:23
          Michal had five children
           2 Sam 21:8
     101. David was tempted by the Lord to number Israel
           2 Sam 24:1
          David was tempted by Satan to number the people
           1 Chron 21:1
     102. The number of fighting men of Israel was 800,000; and of    
          Judah 500,000
           2 Sam 24:9
          The number of fighting men of Israel was 1,100,000; and of  
          Judah 470,000
           1 Chron 21:5
     103. David sinned in numbering the people
           2 Sam 24:10
          David never sinned, except in the matter of Uriah
          1 Kings 15:5
     104. One of the penalties of David's sin was seven years of      
          famine.
           2 Sam 24:13
          It was not seven years, but three years of famine
           1 Chron 21:11,12
     105. David took seven hundred horsemen
           2 Sam 8:4
          David took seven thousand horsemen
           1 Chron 18:4
     106. David bought a threshing floor for fifty shekels of silver
           2 Sam 24:24
          David bought the threshing floor for six hundred shekels of 
          gold
           1 Chron 21:25
     107. David's throne was to endure forever.
           Ps 89:35-37
          David's throne was cast down
           Ps 89:44
 

Speculative Doctrines

      108. Christ is equal with God
           John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
          Christ is not equal with God
           John 14:28/ Matt 24:36
     109. Jesus was all-powerful
           Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
          Jesus was not all-powerful
           Mark 6:5
     110. The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
           Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
          The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation
           Matt 5:17-19
     111. Christ's mission was peace
           Luke 2:13,14
          Christ's mission was not peace
           Matt 10:34
     112. Christ received not testimony from man
           John 5:33,34
          Christ did receive testimony from man
           John 15:27
     113. Christ's witness of himself is true.
           John 8:18,14
          Christ's witness of himself is not true.
           John 5:31
     114. Christ laid down his life for his friends
           John 15:13/ John 10:11
          Christ laid down his life for his enemies
           Rom 5:10
     115. It was lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
           John 19:7
          It was not lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
           John 18:31
     116. Children are punished for the sins of the parents
           Ex 20:5
          Children are not punished for the sins of the parents
           Ezek 18:20
     117. Man is justified by faith alone
           Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2
          Man is not justified by faith alone
           James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13
     118. It is impossible to fall from grace
           John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39
          It is possible to fall from grace
           Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21
     119. No man is without sin
           1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10
         Christians are sinless
           1 John 3: 9,6,8
     120. There is to be a resurrection of the dead
           1 Cor 15:52/ Rev 20:12,13/ Luke 20:37/ 1 Cor 15:16
          There is to be no resurrection of the dead
           Job 7:9/ Eccl 9:5/ Is 26:14
     121. Reward and punishment to be bestowed in this world
           Prov 11:31
          Reward and punishment to be bestowed in the next world
           Rev 20:12/ Matt 16:27/ 2 Cor 5:10
     122. Annihilation the portion of all mankind
           Job 3: 11,13-17,19-22/ Eccl 9:5,10/ Eccl 3:19,20
          Endless misery the portion of all mankind
           Matt 25:46/ Rev 20:10,15/ Rev 14:11/ Dan 12:2
     123. The Earth is to be destroyed
           2 Pet 3:10/ Heb 1:11/ Rev 20:11
          The Earth is never to be destroyed
           Ps 104:5/ Eccl 1:4
     124. No evil shall happen to the godly
           Prov 12:21/ 1 Pet 3:13
          Evil does happen to the godly
           Heb 12:6/ Job 2:3,7
     125. Worldly good and prosperity are the lot of the godly
           Prov 12:21/ Ps 37:28,32,33,37/ Ps 1:1,3/ Gen 39:2/
            Job 42:12
          Worldly misery and destitution the lot of the godly
           Heb 11:37,38/ Rev 7:14/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Luke 21:17
     126. Worldly prosperity a reward of righteousness and a blessing
           Mark 10:29,30/ Ps 37:25/ Ps 112:1,3/ Job 22:23,24/
            Prov 15:6
          Worldly prosperity a curse and a bar to future reward
           Luke 6:20,24/ Matt 6:19,21/ Luke 16:22/ Matt 19:24/
            Luke 6:24
     127. The Christian yoke is easy
           Matt 11:28,29,30
          The Christian yoke is not easy
           John 16:33/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Heb 12:6,8
     128. The fruit of God's spirit is love and gentleness
           Gal 5:22
          The fruit of God's spirit is vengeance and fury
           Judg 15:14/ 1 Sam 18:10,11
     129. Longevity enjoyed by the wicked
           Job 21:7,8/ Ps 17:14/ Eccl 8:12/ Is 65:20
          Longevity denied to the wicked
           Eccl 8:13/ Ps 55:23/ Prov 10:27/ Job 36:14/ Eccl 7:17
     130. Poverty a blessing
           Luke 6:20,24/ Jams 2:5
          Riches a blessing
           Prov 10:15/ Job 22:23,24/ Job 42:12
          Neither poverty nor riches a blessing
           Prov 30:8,9
     131. Wisdom a source of enjoyment
           Prov 3:13,17
          Wisdom a source of vexation, grief and sorrow
           Eccl 1:17,18
     132. A good name is a blessing
           Eccl 7:1/ Prov 22:1
          A good name is a curse
           Luke 6:26
     133. Laughter commended
           Eccl 3:1,4/ Eccl 8:15
          Laughter condemned
           Luke 6:25/ Eccl 7:3,4
     134. The rod of correction a remedy for foolishness
           Prov 22:15
          There is no remedy for foolishness
           Prov 27:22
     135. A fool should be answered according to his folly
           Prov 26:5
       A fool should not be answered according to his folly
           Prov 26:4
     136. Temptation to be desired
           James 1:2
          Temptation not to be desired
           Matt 6:13
     137. Prophecy is sure
           2 Pet 1:19
          Prophecy is not sure
           Jer 18:7-10
     138. Man's life was to be one hundred and twenty years
           Gen 6:3/ Ps 90:10
          Man's life is but seventy years
           Ps 90:10
     139. The fear of man was to be upon every beast
           Gen 9:2
          The fear of man is not upon the lion
           Prov 30:30
     140. Miracles a proof of divine mission
           Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31
          Miracles not a proof of divine mission
           Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19
     141. Moses was a very meek man
            Num 12:3
          Moses was a very cruel man
           Num 31:15,17
     142. Elijah went up to heaven
           2 Kings 2:11
          None but Christ ever ascended into heaven
           John 3:13
     143. All scripture is inspired
           2 Tim 3:16
          Some scripture is not inspired
           1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17
 

---

   
     Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
     peace, but a sword.
     - Matthew 10:34

     ... all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
     - Matthew 26:52
 

---

     For wrath killeth the foolish man...
     - Job 5:2

     ... let not the sun go down on your wrath.
     - Ephesians 4:26
 

---

     And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which
     is in heaven.
     - John 3:13

     ... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
     - 2 Kings 2:11
 

---

     If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
     - John 5:31

     I am one that bear witness of myself...
     - John 8:18
     [Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]
    

---

     A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children...
     - Proverbs 13:22

     Sell that ye have and give alms...
     - Luke 12:33
    

---

     Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord... Wealth and riches
     shall be in his house...
     - Psalms 112:1-3

     It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than
     for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
     - Matthew 19:24
    

---

     I and my father are one.
     - John 10:30

     ... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
     - John 14:28
     [Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]
   

---

     Thou shalt not kill
     - Exodus 20:13

     Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his
     side... and slay every man his brother...
     - Exodus 32:27
  

---

     Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.
     - Exodus 20:8

     The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot
     away with: it is iniquity.
     - Isaiah 3:22
   

---

     Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness
     of anything that is in heaven... earth... [or] water.
     - Leviticus 26:11

     And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt
     thou make them.
     - Exodus 25:18
    

---

     For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works.
     - Ephesians 2:8-9

     Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
     faith only.
     - James 2:24
 

---

     God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man,
     that he should repent.
     - Numbers 23:19

     And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his
     people.
     - Exodus 32:14
   

---

     ... the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall
     hear his voice, and come forth...
     - John 5:28-29

     As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth
     down to the grave shall come up no more.
     - Job 7:9
    

---

     ... thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth,
     hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for
     wound, stripe for stripe.
     - Exodus 21:23-25

     ... resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right
     cheek, turn to him the other also.
     - Matthew 5:39
   

---

     Honor thy father and mother.
     - Exodus 20:12

     If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and
     wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own
     life also, he cannot be my disciple.
     - Luke 14:26
  

---

     Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth...
     - Matthew 6:19

     In the house of the righteous is much treasure...
     - Proverbs 15:6
   

---

     I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
     - Genesis 32:30

     No man hath seen God at any time.
     - John 1:18
  

---

     The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
     - Ezekiel 18:20

     ... I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of
     the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth
     generation.
     - Exodus 20:5
    

---

     Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth
     understanding.
     - Proverbs 3:13

     For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth
     knowledge increaseth sorrow.
     - Ecclesiastes 1:18
   

---

     The Lord is good to all.
     - Psalm 145:6

     I make peace and create evil.  I the Lord do all these things.
     - Isaiah 45:7
    

---

     Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
     - Matthew 5:22

     [Jesus said] Ye fools and blind.
     - Matthew 23:17
  

---

     For all have sinned.
     - Romans 3:23

     There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect
     and upright.
     - Job 1:1
  

---

     Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
     - 2 Kings 8:26

     Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
     - 2 Chronicles 22:2
   

---

     If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath... he shall do
     according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
     - Numbers 30:2

     But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven... nor by
     earth.
     - Matthew 5:34-35
 

---

     ... the earth abideth forever.
     - Ecclesiastes 1:4

     ... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and
     the works that are therein shall be burned up.
     - 2 Peter 3:10
  

---

     ... for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger
     forever.
     - Jeremiah 3:12

     Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
     - Jeremiah 17:4
    

---

     ... God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
     - James 1:13

     And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt
     Abraham.
     - Genesis 22:1
    

---

     And God saw everything that he made, and behold it was very good.
     - Genesis 1:31

     And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it
     grieved him at his heart
     - Genesis 6:6
    

---

     For now have I chosen and sanctified this house that my name be
     there forever; and mine eyes and my heart shall be there
     perpetually.
     - II Chronicles 7:16

     Howbeit the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands.
     - Acts 7:48
    

---

     [God dwells] in the light which no man can approach unto.
     - I Timothy 6:16

     The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

     - I Kings 8:12
    

---

     And the Lord called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
     And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid.
     - Genesis 3:9,10

     Ye hath neither heard his voice, at any time, nor seen his shape.
     - John 5:37
    

---

     Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the
     elders of Israel.  And they saw the God of Israel... They saw
     God, and did eat and drink.
     - Exodus 24: 9-11

     Whom no man hath seen nor can see.
     - I Timothy 6:16
    

---

     With God all things are possible.
     - Matthew 29:26

     And the Lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of
     the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the
     valley, because they had chariots of iron.
     - Judges 1:19
 

---

     God is not the author of confusion.
     - I Corinthians 24:33

     Out of the mouth of the most high proceedeth not evil and good?
     - Lamentations 3:38
   

---

     Those that seek me early shall find me.
     - Proverbs 8:17

     Then shall they call upon me but I will not answer; they shall
     seek me early, but shall not find me.
     - Proverbs 1:28
  

---

     On the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of
     atonement; it shall be a holy convocation unto you; and ye shall
     afflict your souls and offer an offering made by fire unto the
     Lord.
     - Leviticus 23:27

     For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day
     that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt
     offering or sacrifices.
     - Jeremiah 7:22
  

---

     And the priest shall burn all on the altar to be a burnt
     sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto the
     Lord.
     - Leviticus 1:9

     Your burnt offering are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet
     unto me.
     - Jeremiah 7:20
 

---

     God is not a man, that he should lie
     - Numbers 23:19

     And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
     Lord have deceived that prophet.
     - Ezekiel 24:9
  

---

     There is none other God but one.
     - I Corinthians 8:4

     And God said, Let us make man in our image.
     - Genesis 1:26
 

---

     When ye go, ye shall not go empty; but every woman shall borrow
     of her neighbor, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels
     of silver and jewels of gold, and raiment; and ye shall put them
     on your sons and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the
     Egyptians.
     - Exodus 3:21,22

     Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, nether rob him.
     - Leviticus 19:13
    

---

     At the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of
     man.  Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
     - Genesis 4:5,6

     And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should
     kill him.
     - Genesis 4:15
   

---

     Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not,
     neither do they spin... if God so clothe the grass of the
     field... shall he not much more clothe you?  Therefore, take no
     thought, saying what shall we eat?  or what shall we drink?  or
     wherewithal shall we be clothed?... Take, therefore, no thought
     for the morrow.
     - Matthew 6:28, 30-34

     But if any provideth not for his own, especially for those of his
     own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an
     infidel.
     - I Timothy 5:8
   

---

     Be ye angry and sin not.
     - Ephesians 4:26

     Be not hasty in they spirit to be angry; for anger resideth in
     the bosom of fools.
     - Ecclesiastes 7:9
    

---

     Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good
     works.
     - Matthew 5:16

     Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of
     them.
     - Matthew 6:1
 

---

     And Solomon stood before the alter of the Lord, in the presence
     of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands
     toward heaven...
     - I Kings 7:22

     When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are; for
     they love to pray standing in the synagogues, and in the corners
     of the streets, that they may be seen of men...
     - Matthew 6:5
 

---

     And no razor shall come on his head; for the child shall be a
     Nazarite unto God from the womb.
     - Judges 8:5

     Doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man hath long
     hair, it is a shame unto him?
     - I Corinthians 6:14
   

---

     Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
     - Exodus 20:8

     One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every
     day alike.  Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
     - Romans 14:5
 

---

     For in the six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and
     all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the
     Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
     - Exodus 20:11

     And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and
     that the Lord thy God brought the out thence through a mighty
     hand and by a stretched-out arm; therefore the Lord thy God
     commanded the to keep the Sabbath day.
     - Deuteronomy 5:15
 

---

     There is nothing unclean of itself.
     - Romans 14:14

     Nevertheless, these shall ye not eat, of them that chew the cud or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel and the hare, and the coney; for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof, therefore they are unclean unto you.  And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.
     - Deuteronomy 14:7,8
   

---

     Cursed is he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother.
     - Deuteronomy 27:22

     And Abraham said... She is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
     - Genesis 20:11,12
  

---

     If brethren dwell together, and one of them die and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger; her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife.
     - Deuteronomy 25:5

     If a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing... they shall be childless.
     - Leviticus 20:21
   

---

     He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness.
     - Mark 3:29

     And by him that believe are justified from all things.
     - Acts 13:39
   

---

     [John the Baptist] is Elias which was for to come.
     - Matthew 11:14

     And they asked him, what then? Art thou [John the Baptist] Elias?  And he saith, I am not.
     - John 1:21
  

---

     Now, after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
     preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
     - Mark 1:14

     After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea... and John was also baptizing Enon... for John was not yet cast into prison.
     - John 3:22-24
 

---

     And it was in the third hour, and they crucified him.
     - Mark 25:3-4

     And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, behold your king... Shall I crucify your king?
     - John 19:14-15
    

---

     They gave him vinegar to drink, mingled with gall.
     - Matthew 27:34

     And they gave him to drink, wine mingled with myrrh.
     - Mark 15:23
     [Jesus was the thirsty chap in both verses.]
    

---

     And the men which journeyed with [Paul] stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
     - Acts 9:7

     And they that were with me [Paul] saw indeed the light and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
     - Acts 22:9
   

---

     Abraham had two sons; one by a bonds-maid, the other by a free woman.
     - Galatians 4:22

     By faith, Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac... his only begotten son.
     - Hebrews 11:17
  

---

     Therefore Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child unto the day of her death.
     - II Samuel 6:23

     The five sons of Michal, the daughter of Saul.
     - II Samuel 21:8
    

---

     And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel.
     - II Samuel 24:1

     And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
     - I Chronicles 21:1
 

---

     All power is given unto [Jesus] in heaven and in earth.
     - Matthew 28:18

     And [Jesus] could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk and healed them.
     - Mark 6:5
 

---

     There shall no evil happen to the just.
     - Proverbs 12:21

     Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
     - Hebrews 12:6
 

---

---

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
To: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011, 13:03

[Rabinder Koul]

Main point is Christian & Academics two together are OxyMoron.. You Christian and Propaganda ...

Ravindra Koul

अस्मद्रूपसमाविष्ठ: स्वात्मनात्मानिवारणे 

शिव: करोतु निजया नम: शक्त्या ततात्मने 

On Oct 25, 2011, at 12:36 PM, Radhakrishnan P wrote:

There is nothing new in the lengthy narrative of Kooenrad Elst. Christian historical records are solid proof to rebut the imaginary findings of Elst. The very fact that Jerusalem is the hot topic of international discussion even in the 21st century shows the authenticity and continuity of Judaeo-Christian culture. There is no need for further proof. 

---

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Pardip Kumar Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011 5:03 PM

[Arjun]

good im glad you are laughing at yourself and your moronic beliefs based on Christianity

---

From: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2011, 0:30

Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

Ha!ha!ha!

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From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2011 11:32 AM

Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

dont try to be clever with pathetic flimsy excuses.Those quotes are directly from the bible and inspired by your jealous god in the sky.The crimes against humanity by christianty for the last two thousand years are well documented and thats why its been dumped especially in the west

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From: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011, 20:04

Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

Arjunji

                     You have copied and pasted the long narration and it is nothing new. Rape, murder and other crimes mentioned in the Bible are events happened in Palestine and they are pages from  the history of Palestine. In any country's history, even in India, there will be such crimes as rape, murder etc., committed by the kings, leaders and the people. In some cases God punished the people to suffer such crimes for their wickedness. But no where in the Bible there is any reference to god committing such crimes as rape or sexual debauchery. That is the difference that you have to note. Acts of human beings should not be attributed to God. More importantly, the Bible is a history book which tells about the history of  Egypt, Assyria, Mesopotamia, Sumeria, Persia, Greece and Rome. A minor reference to India is also there while describing the Persian Empire. Eminent characters in history such as David, Solomon, Darius, Xerxes, Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar and many others are mentioned. Cruel acts of kings and people mentioned in the Bible must not be interpreted as acts of God. Wickedness of men in history is juxtaposed with the holiness of God in the Bible. It is quite exciting to read the history of several nations in the Bible; it is still more exciting to read the deceit, murder, rape, sexual debauchery, bloody wars and the wickedness of human nature.

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From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2011 2:49 AM

[Arjun]

You false claims are put forward by the church and are not verified by historical facts.Theres absolute no proof that Shankara monism was influenced by Christianity. xitians always try to make false claims because xitianity itself is false Now if christians missions were welcomed by Hindus then how comes the whole of india is not Christian ? You argument is just based on xitian properganda and nothing else..Thats why xitianty has been dumped in the west while slave mentality jokers like yourself try to preach the false propaganda as like its fact..The only fact about the church is its crimes against humanity which i dont even have to document here because its right in the open just like all the thousands of cases of child abuse.

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From: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011, 21:39

Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

The discussion is not about Thomas, but the presence of Christians in Kerala when Sankara started his mission. Sankara's monism is from Christian religious thought. A thriving Christian community was in Kerala, and especially in Thrissur-Kaladi region where Sankara was born. As Nehru says in Glimpses of World history: "You may be surprised to learn that Christianity came to India long before it went to England or western Europe, and when even in Rome it was a despised and proscribed sect. Within 100 years or so of the death of Jesus, Christian missionaries came to South India by sea. They were received courteously and permitted to preach their new faith. They converted a large number of people, and their descendants have lived there, with varying fortunes, to this day. Most of the belong to old Christian sects which have ceased to exist in Europe. Some of these have headquarters in Asia Minor." (Page 87). It is quite evident that a flourishing Christian community existed in Kerala and Sankara was aware of the teachings of Jesus.

Your comment: .But the only hot topic that is true about the church and its historical records is its indulgence in paedophilia so maybe thats what you are involved in looking for victims on a  hindu group thread," shows the openness and frankness in Christian Churches. In Hindu temples  devadasis were kept to be used by priests. There are shocking stories of sexual debauchery by gurus and swamis and they are not punished. But in Christian Churches whenever a pedophile case is brought to the notice of authorities, the culprits are immediately punished. What you have to understand is that  the Church and not Police  hunts for erring priests and pedophiles, and the Church gives publicity by releasing their names and removing them from office. Why Sai Baba,  Maharish Mahayogi and a host of others are not punished?

---

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>

Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2011 2:36 AM

[Arjun]

dont try to be clever with pathetic flimsy excuses.Those quotes are directly from the bible and inspired by your jealous god in the sky.The crimes against humanity by christianty for the last two thousand years are well documented and thats why its been dumped especially in the west

---

From: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011, 20:04

Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

Arjunji

                     You have copied and pasted the long narration and it is nothing new. Rape, murder and other crimes mentioned in the Bible are events happened in Palestine and they are pages from  the history of Palestine. In any country's history, even in India, there will be such crimes as rape, murder etc., committed by the kings, leaders and the people. In some cases God punished the people to suffer such crimes for their wickedness. But no where in the Bible there is any reference to god committing such crimes as rape or sexual debauchery. That is the difference that you have to note. Acts of human beings should not be attributed to God. More importantly, the Bible is a history book which tells about the history of  Egypt, Assyria, Mesopotamia, Sumeria, Persia, Greece and Rome. A minor reference to India is also there while describing the Persian Empire. Eminent characters in history such as David, Solomon, Darius, Xerxes, Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar and many others are mentioned. Cruel acts of kings and people mentioned in the Bible must not be interpreted as acts of God. Wickedness of men in history is juxtaposed with the holiness of God in the Bible. It is quite exciting to read the history of several nations in the Bible; it is still more exciting to read the deceit, murder, rape, sexual debauchery, bloody wars and the wickedness of human nature.

---

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>

Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2011 2:49 AM

[Prem Sabhlok]

With over 1008 scriptures contradicting on many spiritual and metaphysical concepts, to unite Hindus is an uphill task. Nearly all Hindus agree that Vedas are their supreme Scriptures, if we revive Vedas, this unity can be achieved very fast. Hindus will get organised with conviction and uniform faith. 
Revival of Vedas is  very slow and needs to be expedited.
 
Regards
Prem Sabhlok

---

Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:33:26 +0100
From: arjun...@yahoo.co.uk

Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

To: par...@paradisegroup.com.my; bhano...@gmail.com; radhakr...@yahoo.co.in
CC: aryayou...@yahoogroups.com; bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in; desi...@googlegroups.com; gchatt...@gmail.com; kot...@yahoo.com; ramm...@sangh.in; drtog...@gmail.com; vhpin...@gmail.com; j.sr...@yahoo.com; shyam_n...@yahoo.com; bcm...@gmail.com; satish...@yahoo.com; psab...@hotmail.com; hita...@gmail.com; kata...@aol.com; sadhak_...@yahoo.com; jitender...@gmail.com; kri...@hindupedia.com; shankara...@yahoo.com; london...@yahoo.co.uk; tinasa...@yahoo.com; irmamuns...@gmail.com; sande...@hotmail.com; ani...@yahoo.co.uk; govind...@hotmail.com; rishi...@hotmail.com; ranbir...@talktalk.net; culturalbri...@yahoo.com; tcgm...@hotmail.com; vyshv...@gmail.com; live_by...@yahoo.co.uk; rsin...@yahoo.com; brah...@yahoo.com; aryasam...@yahoogroups.com; bhagav...@yahoo.ca; akansh...@yahoo.com; arya...@hotmail.com; mish...@aol.com; msb...@yahoo.com; naveen...@yahoo.co.in; arun_...@yahoo.com; jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in; puneet...@gmail.com; ashwini...@yahoo.ca; eka...@btinternet.com; jayasw...@gmail.com; as_...@rediffmail.com; baksh...@yahoo.com; skan...@gmail.com; op.t...@gmail.com; bharat...@gmail.com; ahven...@gmail.com; gir...@aryasamaj.com; arr...@ameritech.net; vijaya...@yahoo.com; ashoks...@rediffmail.com; satyar...@gmail.com; vsg...@yahoo.com; arya.v...@gmail.com; kcg...@yahoo.com; su_...@ymail.com; ajaya...@gmail.com; rajpa...@yahoo.com

[ranjeet singh]

Yes; but how do you know – and can say – that the person is a Hindu and not a vitriol-pouring Catholic, who have been instructed by their dog-collared ‘fathers’ for quite some time now to keep up and stick to their Hindu like names so as to betray the ever gullible Hindu?   Dr. Ranjeet Singh

[Anil Bhanot]

Hinduism is vast, it's scriptural heritage is unparalleled on earth. To unite the scripture under one heading is a mammoth task which cannot be done in one century so of course best to first organise it. 

Now many many scholars are doing just that. It will still take decades. Prem ji is doing much on Vedas. But that does not mean puraans conflict. It's just that a fuller organisation has not taken place yet. 
Similarly we need to compliment all organisations not bad mouth any as each serves a little purpose in the move towards a greater unity. That is why we just need to continue organizing at the moment and unity will come as its byproduct. 

That is my view. 

Anil Bhanot

Message sent from iPhone  

On 27 Oct 2011, at 02:37, Pardip Kumar Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my> wrote:

Friends,

When we speak of organising Hindus, it is best we let each one practice what they are comfortable with and not encroach into that very sensitive area.

We can focus on our efforts to "Organise" the different groups under one umbrella. 

Let each of them be comfortable with the scriptures and gurus they believe in.

 

With the lack of understanding on a broad basis, even if we introduce Vedas as a base, it will create conflict, due to the lack of understanding itself.

The moment we touch on which scripture is better than the other, we are getting into quick sand and will hurt ourselves.

So our focus should be "Organisation" i.e. Developing a network for all, a contact point for all, a reference centre for all, a louder voice for all, advocacy for all, philanthropy to for all, education for all. 

This is my view when we try to marry unity with organisation. 

Best Regards

Pardip Kumar Kukreja

Kuala Lumpur

Malaysia

"SAY NO TO RACISM"

From: Prem Sabhlok <psab...@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:41:34 +0530
To: <desi...@googlegroups.com>, Pardip Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>, Anil Bhanot Global Hindu Council <bhano...@gmail.com>, Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>, bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>, GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>, Harish Kotecha USA <kot...@yahoo.com>, "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>, "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>, "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>, "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>, "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>, "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>, "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>, "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>, "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>, "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>, "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>, "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>, "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>, "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>, "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>, "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>, "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>, "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>, "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>, "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>, "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>, "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>, "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>, "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>, "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>, "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>, "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>, "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>, "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>, "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>, "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>, "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>, "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>, "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>, "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>, "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>, "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>, "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>, "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>, "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>, "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>, "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>, "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>, "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>, "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>, "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>, "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>, "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>, "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>, "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>, "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>, "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>, "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>, "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>, "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>, "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>, "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

With over 1008 scriptures contradicting on many spiritual and metaphysical concepts, to unite Hindus is an uphill task. Nearly all Hindus agree that Vedas are their supreme Scriptures, if we revive Vedas, this unity can be achieved very fast. Hindus will get organised with conviction and uniform faith. 
Revival of Vedas is  very slow and needs to be expedited.
 
Regards
Prem Sabhlok

---

Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:33:26 +0100
From: arjun...@yahoo.co.uk

Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

From: Pardip Kumar Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>

To: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011, 2:51

Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

[bhagwat goel]

WE NEED NOT WORRY. WE SHOULD MATCH WITH TRUTH BUT WITH VERY HARD RESPONSE. CHRISTIANITY IS OUT IN ANY WAY. According to prophesy PRESENT POPE IS LAST POPE.  Islam will take over EU  in 20 years or so through Vote. THEIR GIBBERISH CANNOT CASTE ANY SPOT ON SUN.

 

Bhagwat Goel

From: ranjeet singh <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Pardip Kumar Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2011 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

Yes; but how do you know – and can say – that the person is a Hindu and not a vitriol-pouring Catholic, who have been instructed by their dog-collared ‘fathers’ for quite some time now to keep up and stick to their Hindu like names so as to betray the ever gullible Hindu?   Dr. Ranjeet Singh --- On Tue, 25/10/11, Pardip Kumar Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my> wrote:

From: Pardip Kumar Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my> Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP To: "Anil Bhanot" <bhano...@gmail.com>, "Radhakrishnan P" <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in> Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>, "Arjun" <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>, "bhagwat goel" <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>, "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>, "GOUTAM CHATTERJEE" <gchatt...@gmail.com>, "Harish Kotecha" <kot...@yahoo.com>, "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>, "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>, "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>, "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>, "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>, "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>, "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>, "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>, "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>, "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>, "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>, "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>, "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>, "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>, "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>, "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>, "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>, "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>, "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>, "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>, "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>, "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>, "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>, "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>, "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>, "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>, "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>, "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>, "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>, "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>, "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>, "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>, "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>, "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>, "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>, "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>, "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>, "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>, "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>, "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>, "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>, "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>, "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>, "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>, "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>, "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>, "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>, "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>, "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>, "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>, "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>, "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>, "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>, "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>, "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>, "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>, "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>, "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com> Date: Tuesday, 25 October, 2011, 10:51

I guess there are jokers in all societies and yes, we must learn to remove jokers from becoming the thinkers for grand philosophies and religions like Hinduism and Sanatana Dharma. Jokers have no place and we must not give time space nor time to entertain us with such garbage as written by P. Radhakrishnan. Best Regards Pardip "SAY NO TO RACISM"

From: Anil Bhanot Global Hindu Council <bhano...@gmail.com>Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:41:15 +0100To: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>, bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>, "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>, GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>, Harish Kotecha USA <kot...@yahoo.com>, Pardip Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>, "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>, "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>, "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>, "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>, "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>, "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>, "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>, "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>, "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>, "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>, "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>, "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>, "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>, "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>, "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>, "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>, "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>, "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>, "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>, "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>, "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>, "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>, "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>, "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>, "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>, "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>, "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>, "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>, "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>, "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>, "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>, "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>, "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>, "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>, "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>, "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>, "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>, "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>, "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>, "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>, "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>, "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>, "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>, "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>, "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>, "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>, "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>, "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>, "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>, "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>, "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>, "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>, "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>, "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>, "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>, "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>, "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>, "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

This is why greater organisation is needed to debunk people like this P Radhakrishanan who harm Hindus from the inside, his write up below is full of hatred for the Hindu Dharma which he clearly does not understand but them goes on to spread his diatribe to confuse other Hindus.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

TAT TVAM ASI                The three Sanskrit words, tat tvam asi (thou art that), are regarded as the core of Hinduism. It means, Jivatma (individual soul) is also paramatma (God or universal soul).  In other words, man himself is God. The Bible says that the Devil tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit so that man could become god. How can man become god? Everybody wants to be god. Hindu concept of ‘You are God’ is only a fanciful thought and practically it will not be possible for a man to become god. If this concept is true, how can we call a rapist, a murderer, a terrorist a god?  Man is man; god is god.  In actual reality there are three hundred and thirty millions of gods in Hinduism. As Nehru says: “The Brahman priests had introduced all manner of rites and pujas and superstition, for the more there is of puja the more do the priests flourish. Caste was becoming stricter, and the common people were frightened by omens and spells and witchcraft and quackery.” Ambedkar points out in his book writings and speeches that the Hindu scriptures tell us that the famous god, Krishna, had sixteen thousand one hundred and eight wives, apart from his legitimate seven wives. He also says that the Hindu scriptures also tell us about the sexual debauchery of other gods like Siva, Indra, Brahma and Vishnu. And yet, to sell Hinduism in the West, Hindu leaders like Vivekananda, Radhakrishnan, Sri Ravi Shanker, Deepak Chopra, Bikram Choudhary  and others camouflage the nature and activities of the real gods and goddesses of Hinduism and project Hinduism as a religion of love and ahimsa. They take a sentence or words uttered by the characters of the mythological epics like the Ramayana or Mahabharata and give their own interpretation, studded with ideas heavily borrowed from Christianity, science, psychology and Western philosophy. As for instance, hiding the violence, deceit and duplicity in the Mahabaharata, they highlight a dialogue between Krishna and Arjuna in the battlefield, calling it Bhagavad Gita or Song of the Lord. Real character of Hindu gods and goddesses is masked. Christian ideals of love, justice, kindness, sacrifice and fellowship as well as psychology, science and Western philosophy are laced with the utterances of these characters to give a modern and cultured outlook to Hinduism. What has got quantum physics and Freudian psychology to do with primitive, mythological Hindu epics? But that is the strategy by which ancient Hinduism is projected to the westerners by interpolating whatever is modern in the West. Radhakrishnan studied philosophy in Madras Christian College, and he lavishly quotes Bradley, Spinoza, Hegel, Bergsen and other Western philosophers while interpreting primeval Hinduism and thereby gives an artificial modern outlook. Instead of giving the names of rapacious Hindu gods, he uses the term ‘supreme universal spirit’ or the‘Absolute’ while referring to god. Vivekananda studied at Scottish Church College, Kolkota. When he addressed the Parliament of Religions at Chicago, he presented Christianized Hinduism, deliberately avoiding the depravity of Gods and cruel rites in Hinduism such as female infanticide, caste cruelty and barbarous customs like Sati in Hinduism. In his own state Bengal hundreds of young widows were being burnt alive when Vivekanada was lecturing in European countries on love and kindness in Hinduism. All religions of the world give importance to the activities of gods. But Hinduism thrives only on the basis of commentaries and interpretations by masking the wicked deeds of gods and barbarous Hindu rites such as burning of widows (sati), caste tyranny by which millions were killed without any trial and stifling superstition. Jaimini and Badarayana were responsible for the formulation of Vedic beliefs. The original Hindu scriptures such as the Vedas, the Ramayana and Bhagavad-Gita are packed with violent acts [ the Vedas deal with the savagery of the marauding Aryans and the suppression of native inhabitants, collectively calling them as dasas, mlechas and chandalas , the Ramayana deals with the expansion of the Aryans in the south and the war with the Dravidian Chief, Ravana and the killings of non-Aryans who were called demons,  and the Mahabharata deals with the intrigues,, conspiracies and wars  among the Aryan tribes]. So none of these sacred books of the Hindus advocates love, non-violence, fellowship and tolerance. It was to mask the cruel acts of gods in  Hinduism  that Jamini produced the Mimansa and Badarayana produced the Brahma Sutras.  Sayancharya produced a commentary on the Vedas, completely hiding  the caste hatred, conflicts and selfish pursuits of the invading Aryans.  The ancient religious doctrines of the Upanishads were reduced to an elaborate system of philosophy by Badarayana under the title of Vedanta Sutras. Although there is no philosophica thought in the original Hindu scriptures, by interpretation and commentary seven schools od philosophical thought were interposed only after the Christian era. The other interpreters were Sankara (about AD 820), Ramanuja (AD 1137) and Madhava (AD1276). All these interpretations and commentaries took place after the birth of Christianity.  Christianity was active in India in first century AD itself when Thomas,the disciple of Jesus, came to India and established several churches for the converts. Sankara was from Kerala and he was familiar with the teachings of Jesus which he came to know from the Christian community living in his neighbourhood. The production of commentaries led on the one hand to a tradition of interpretation, and on the other to several variants in interpretation. Thestrategy adopted to carry out this objective is to hide all the acts of gods and goddesses in the Hindu scriptures and to  project the Upanishads, the last book of the Vedas, as the new face of Hinduism. Tat tvam asi or Thou art That is a phrase in the Upanishads and it means that the individual soul (atman) is to be identified with the Supreme soul (Brahman) atma or identifiesmerges with the paramatma.  Obviously,  it is not a wise and practical  conception, for man can never become god. If men are also gods, planet earth will be a paradise.  It is a clever strategy to attract all to Hinduism by propagating this sweet-coated concept. Ambedkar says: “As to philosophy there is nothing of it in the Rig Veda.” Prof. Horace Hayman Wilson was a great Sanskrit scholar and Secretary of the Asiatic Society.   Wilson observes: “There is in the Rig-Veda, which is the stock Veda, scarcely any indication or doctrinal or philosophical speculation, no allusion to the later notions of the several schools, nor is there any hint of metempsychosis or of the doctrine intimately allied to it, of the repeated renovation of the world. The Vedas may be useful as a source of information regarding the social life of the Aryans. As a picture of primitive life it is full of curiosity but there is nothing elevating. There are more vices and a few virtues. “How many Ramayanas? Three hundred? Three thousand? At the end of some Ramayanas, a question is sometimes asked: How many Ramayanas have there been?" wondered the late poet and scholar A.K.Ramanujan of the Indian epic in a compelling essay he wrote for a University of Pittsburgh conference in 1987.

From: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk> To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011 1:01 PM Subject: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

My personal view is that Hindus or the Sanatani's or Vaidic Philosophy lacks the Political Will to spread the message. The main reason for that could be the concept of "Moksha"(मोक्ष), where in an Individual can attain it.  Any other view points or comments!!!! Dr. Ambekar.

On 25 Oct 2011, at 15:21, Arjun wrote:

even the monotheists are not united otherwise they wouldnt be living divided in so many countries .That proves the 'one' god theory is a total failure while the hindus with their many gods live mainly in one country.But the difference is the monotheists are more organised because they at least  are brought up on  a ideological direction .So they either work together or individually to that direction while hindus on the other hand are lead by organisations which lack total direction and if you add  groups like the Arya Samaj into the mix with its inferiority complex of desperately trying to put hindus into the monotheist straitjacket then tht only confuses hindus even more,,

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[Poonam Abbi]

The best part is, these crimes were documented by the christians & their mercenaries themselvs as their brilliant successes. And now, when the situation changed, they are now (along with the muslims) are scurrying to cover it with whiteout & put new stuff there to make them not look like the villains that they really are.

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

dont try to be clever with pathetic flimsy excuses.Those quotes are directly from the bible and inspired by your jealous god in the sky.The crimes against humanity by christianty for the last two thousand years are well documented and thats why its been dumped especially in the west

From: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011, 20:04
Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

Arjunji

                     You have copied and pasted the long narration and it is nothing new. Rape, murder and other crimes mentioned in the Bible are events happened in Palestine and they are pages from  the history of Palestine. In any country's history, even in India, there will be such crimes as rape, murder etc., committed by the kings, leaders and the people. In some cases God punished the people to suffer such crimes for their wickedness. But no where in the Bible there is any reference to god committing such crimes as rape or sexual debauchery. That is the difference that you have to note. Acts of human beings should not be attributed to God. More importantly, the Bible is a history book which tells about the history of  Egypt, Assyria, Mesopotamia, Sumeria, Persia, Greece and Rome. A minor reference to India is also there while describing the Persian Empire. Eminent characters in history such as David, Solomon, Darius, Xerxes, Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar and many others are mentioned. Cruel acts of kings and people mentioned in the Bible must not be interpreted as acts of God. Wickedness of men in history is juxtaposed with the holiness of God in the Bible. It is quite exciting to read the history of several nations in the Bible; it is still more exciting to read the deceit, murder, rape, sexual debauchery, bloody wars and the wickedness of human nature.

2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:

 

Kill Brats

    From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.  "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!"  The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord.  Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.  (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

 

God Kills the Curious 

    And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter.  And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us?   (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

 

Killed by a Lion

    Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!"  But the man refused to strike the prophet.  Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me."  And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.  (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

 

Killing the Good Samaritan

    The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill.  Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

    When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip.  But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God.  (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

 

 

3) Murdering Children

 

Kill Sons of Sinners

    Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.  (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

 

God Will Kill Children

    The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived.  Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you.  It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone.  I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre.  But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered."  O LORD, what should I request for your people?  I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk.  The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them.  I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions.  I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels.  The people of Israel are stricken.  Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.  And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children."  (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

 

Kill Men, Women, and Children

    "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple."  So they began by killing the seventy leaders.  "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded.  "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!  Go!"  So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."  (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

 

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

    And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.  Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.  (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

 

Kill Old Men and Young Women

    "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD.  "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms.  With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer.  With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens.  With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers.  "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD.  "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth!  I am your enemy," says the LORD.  "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights.  When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble.  You will be desolate forever.  Even your stones will never again be used for building.  You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD.  (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

     (Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter.  So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

 

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

    If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.  I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.  (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

 

More Rape and Baby Killing

    Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

 

 

     Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
     peace, but a sword.
     - Matthew 10:34

     ... all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
     - Matthew 26:52
 

     For wrath killeth the foolish man...
     - Job 5:2

     ... let not the sun go down on your wrath.
     - Ephesians 4:26
 

     And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which
     is in heaven.
     - John 3:13

     ... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
     - 2 Kings 2:11
 

     If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
     - John 5:31

     I am one that bear witness of myself...
     - John 8:18
     [Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]
    

     A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children...
     - Proverbs 13:22

     Sell that ye have and give alms...
     - Luke 12:33
    

     Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord... Wealth and riches
     shall be in his house...
     - Psalms 112:1-3

     It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than
     for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
     - Matthew 19:24
    

     I and my father are one.
     - John 10:30

     ... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
     - John 14:28
     [Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]
   

     Thou shalt not kill
     - Exodus 20:13

     Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his
     side... and slay every man his brother...
     - Exodus 32:27
  

     Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.
     - Exodus 20:8

     The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot
     away with: it is iniquity.
     - Isaiah 3:22
   

     Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness
     of anything that is in heaven... earth... [or] water.
     - Leviticus 26:11

     And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt
     thou make them.
     - Exodus 25:18
    

     For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works.
     - Ephesians 2:8-9

     Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
     faith only.
     - James 2:24
 

     God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man,
     that he should repent.
     - Numbers 23:19

     And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his
     people.
     - Exodus 32:14
   

     ... the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall
     hear his voice, and come forth...
     - John 5:28-29

     As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth
     down to the grave shall come up no more.
     - Job 7:9
    

     ... thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth,
     hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for
     wound, stripe for stripe.
     - Exodus 21:23-25

     ... resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right
     cheek, turn to him the other also.
     - Matthew 5:39
   

     Honor thy father and mother.
     - Exodus 20:12

     If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and
     wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own
     life also, he cannot be my disciple.
     - Luke 14:26
  

     Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth...
     - Matthew 6:19

     In the house of the righteous is much treasure...
     - Proverbs 15:6
   

     I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
     - Genesis 32:30

     No man hath seen God at any time.
     - John 1:18
  

     The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
     - Ezekiel 18:20

     ... I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of
     the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth
     generation.
     - Exodus 20:5
    

     Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth
     understanding.
     - Proverbs 3:13

     For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth
     knowledge increaseth sorrow.
     - Ecclesiastes 1:18
   

     The Lord is good to all.
     - Psalm 145:6

     I make peace and create evil.  I the Lord do all these things.
     - Isaiah 45:7
    

     Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
     - Matthew 5:22

     [Jesus said] Ye fools and blind.
     - Matthew 23:17
  

     For all have sinned.
     - Romans 3:23

     There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect
     and upright.
     - Job 1:1
  

     Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
     - 2 Kings 8:26

     Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.
     - 2 Chronicles 22:2
   

     If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath... he shall do
     according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
     - Numbers 30:2

     But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven... nor by
     earth.
     - Matthew 5:34-35
 

     ... the earth abideth forever.
     - Ecclesiastes 1:4

     ... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and
     the works that are therein shall be burned up.
     - 2 Peter 3:10
  

     ... for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger
     forever.
     - Jeremiah 3:12

     Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
     - Jeremiah 17:4
    

     ... God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
     - James 1:13

     And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt
     Abraham.
     - Genesis 22:1
    

     And God saw everything that he made, and behold it was very good.
     - Genesis 1:31

     And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it
     grieved him at his heart
     - Genesis 6:6
    

     For now have I chosen and sanctified this house that my name be
     there forever; and mine eyes and my heart shall be there
     perpetually.
     - II Chronicles 7:16

     Howbeit the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands.
     - Acts 7:48
    

     [God dwells] in the light which no man can approach unto.
     - I Timothy 6:16

     The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

     - I Kings 8:12
    

     And the Lord called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
     And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid.
     - Genesis 3:9,10

     Ye hath neither heard his voice, at any time, nor seen his shape.
     - John 5:37
    

     Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the
     elders of Israel.  And they saw the God of Israel... They saw
     God, and did eat and drink.
     - Exodus 24: 9-11

     Whom no man hath seen nor can see.
     - I Timothy 6:16
    

     With God all things are possible.
     - Matthew 29:26

     And the Lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of
     the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the
     valley, because they had chariots of iron.
     - Judges 1:19
 

     God is not the author of confusion.
     - I Corinthians 24:33

     Out of the mouth of the most high proceedeth not evil and good?
     - Lamentations 3:38
   

     Those that seek me early shall find me.
     - Proverbs 8:17

     Then shall they call upon me but I will not answer; they shall
     seek me early, but shall not find me.
     - Proverbs 1:28
  

     On the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of
     atonement; it shall be a holy convocation unto you; and ye shall
     afflict your souls and offer an offering made by fire unto the
     Lord.
     - Leviticus 23:27

     For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day
     that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt
     offering or sacrifices.
     - Jeremiah 7:22
  

     And the priest shall burn all on the altar to be a burnt
     sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto the
     Lord.
     - Leviticus 1:9

     Your burnt offering are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet
     unto me.
     - Jeremiah 7:20
 

     God is not a man, that he should lie
     - Numbers 23:19

     And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
     Lord have deceived that prophet.
     - Ezekiel 24:9
  

     There is none other God but one.
     - I Corinthians 8:4

     And God said, Let us make man in our image.
     - Genesis 1:26
 

     When ye go, ye shall not go empty; but every woman shall borrow
     of her neighbor, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels
     of silver and jewels of gold, and raiment; and ye shall put them
     on your sons and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the
     Egyptians.
     - Exodus 3:21,22

     Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, nether rob him.
     - Leviticus 19:13
    

     At the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of
     man.  Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
     - Genesis 4:5,6

     And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should
     kill him.
     - Genesis 4:15
   

     Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not,
     neither do they spin... if God so clothe the grass of the
     field... shall he not much more clothe you?  Therefore, take no
     thought, saying what shall we eat?  or what shall we drink?  or
     wherewithal shall we be clothed?... Take, therefore, no thought
     for the morrow.
     - Matthew 6:28, 30-34

     But if any provideth not for his own, especially for those of his
     own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an
     infidel.
     - I Timothy 5:8
   

     Be ye angry and sin not.
     - Ephesians 4:26

     Be not hasty in they spirit to be angry; for anger resideth in
     the bosom of fools.
     - Ecclesiastes 7:9
    

     Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good
     works.
     - Matthew 5:16

     Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of
     them.
     - Matthew 6:1
 

     And Solomon stood before the alter of the Lord, in the presence
     of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands
     toward heaven...
     - I Kings 7:22

     When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are; for
     they love to pray standing in the synagogues, and in the corners
     of the streets, that they may be seen of men...
     - Matthew 6:5
 

     And no razor shall come on his head; for the child shall be a
     Nazarite unto God from the womb.
     - Judges 8:5

     Doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man hath long
     hair, it is a shame unto him?
     - I Corinthians 6:14
   

     Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
     - Exodus 20:8

     One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every
     day alike.  Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
     - Romans 14:5
 

     For in the six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and
     all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the
     Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
     - Exodus 20:11

     And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and
     that the Lord thy God brought the out thence through a mighty
     hand and by a stretched-out arm; therefore the Lord thy God
     commanded the to keep the Sabbath day.
     - Deuteronomy 5:15
 

     There is nothing unclean of itself.
     - Romans 14:14

     Nevertheless, these shall ye not eat, of them that chew the cud or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel and the hare, and the coney; for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof, therefore they are unclean unto you.  And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.
     - Deuteronomy 14:7,8
   

     Cursed is he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother.
     - Deuteronomy 27:22

     And Abraham said... She is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
     - Genesis 20:11,12
  

     If brethren dwell together, and one of them die and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger; her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife.
     - Deuteronomy 25:5

     If a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing... they shall be childless.
     - Leviticus 20:21
   

     He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness.
     - Mark 3:29

     And by him that believe are justified from all things.
     - Acts 13:39
   

     [John the Baptist] is Elias which was for to come.
     - Matthew 11:14

     And they asked him, what then? Art thou [John the Baptist] Elias?  And he saith, I am not.
     - John 1:21
  

     Now, after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
     preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
     - Mark 1:14

     After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea... and John was also baptizing Enon... for John was not yet cast into prison.
     - John 3:22-24
 

     And it was in the third hour, and they crucified him.
     - Mark 25:3-4

     And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, behold your king... Shall I crucify your king?
     - John 19:14-15
    

     They gave him vinegar to drink, mingled with gall.
     - Matthew 27:34

     And they gave him to drink, wine mingled with myrrh.
     - Mark 15:23
     [Jesus was the thirsty chap in both verses.]
    

     And the men which journeyed with [Paul] stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
     - Acts 9:7

     And they that were with me [Paul] saw indeed the light and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
     - Acts 22:9
   

     Abraham had two sons; one by a bonds-maid, the other by a free woman.
     - Galatians 4:22

     By faith, Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac... his only begotten son.
     - Hebrews 11:17
  

     Therefore Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child unto the day of her death.
     - II Samuel 6:23

     The five sons of Michal, the daughter of Saul.
     - II Samuel 21:8
    

     And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel.
     - II Samuel 24:1

     And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
     - I Chronicles 21:1
 

     All power is given unto [Jesus] in heaven and in earth.
     - Matthew 28:18

     And [Jesus] could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk and healed them.
     - Mark 6:5
 

     There shall no evil happen to the just.
     - Proverbs 12:21

     Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
     - Hebrews 12:6
 

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
To: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011, 13:03
Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

P Radhakrishnan, Why are you participating in a Hindu discussion? This is not your place. You must learn not to trespass, otherwise your prayer is just a sham, you are fooling your own God when you say 'forgive us for our trespasses' which is exactly what you are taught to do and have done for millennia and history bears a witness to that. As for true history things are finally moving in the right direction under democracy, under 21st century - which you mention but your idaes are of the dark middle ages of the West - and for your information several professors from Western universities now are re-writing the fallacies you seem to be so proud of and in turn are showing signs of giving space, historically, to Ramayana and Mahabharata. India may not havethe will yet partly due to people like you but rest assured truth will out. You may keep fooling yourself but please don't do so in this Hindu thread.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

There is nothing new in the lengthy narrative of Kooenrad Elst. Christian historical records are solid proof to rebut the imaginary findings of Elst. The very fact that Jerusalem is the hot topic of international discussion even in the 21st century shows the authenticity and continuity of Judaeo-Christian culture. There is no need for further proof. 

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

To: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

This is why greater organisation is needed to debunk people like this P Radhakrishanan who harm Hindus from the inside, his write up below is full of hatred for the Hindu Dharma which he clearly does not understand but them goes on to spread his diatribe to confuse other Hindus.  

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

TAT TVAM ASI

 

             The three Sanskrit words, tat tvam asi (thou art that), are regarded as the core of Hinduism. It means, Jivatma (individual soul) is also paramatma (God or universal soul).  In other words, man himself is God. The Bible says that the Devil tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit so that man could become god. How can man become god? Everybody wants to be god. Hindu concept of ‘You are God’ is only a fanciful thought and practically it will not be possible for a man to become god. If this concept is true, how can we call a rapist, a murderer, a terrorist a god?  Man is man; god is god.  In actual reality there are three hundred and thirty millions of gods in Hinduism. As Nehru says: “The Brahman priests had introduced all manner of rites and pujas and superstition, for the more there is of puja the more do the priests flourish. Caste was becoming stricter, and the common people were frightened by omens and spells and witchcraft and quackery.” Ambedkar points out in his book writings and speeches that the Hindu scriptures tell us that the famous god, Krishna, had sixteen thousand one hundred and eight wives, apart from his legitimate seven wives. He also says that the Hindu scriptures also tell us about the sexual debauchery of other gods like Siva, Indra, Brahma and Vishnu. And yet, to sell Hinduism in the West, Hindu leaders like Vivekananda, Radhakrishnan, Sri Ravi Shanker, Deepak Chopra, Bikram Choudhary  and others camouflage the nature and activities of the real gods and goddesses of Hinduism and project Hinduism as a religion of love and ahimsa. They take a sentence or words uttered by the characters of the mythological epics like the Ramayana or Mahabharata and give their own interpretation, studded with ideas heavily borrowed from Christianity, science, psychology and Western philosophy. As for instance, hiding the violence, deceit and duplicity in the Mahabaharata, they highlight a dialogue between Krishna and Arjuna in the battlefield, calling it Bhagavad Gita or Song of the Lord. Real character of Hindu gods and goddesses is masked. Christian ideals of love, justice, kindness, sacrifice and fellowship as well as psychology, science and Western philosophy are laced with the utterances of these characters to give a modern and cultured outlook to Hinduism. What has got quantum physics and Freudian psychology to do with primitive, mythological Hindu epics? But that is the strategy by which ancient Hinduism is projected to the westerners by interpolating whatever is modern in the West. Radhakrishnan studied philosophy in Madras Christian College, and he lavishly quotes Bradley, Spinoza, Hegel, Bergsen and other Western philosophers while interpreting primeval Hinduism and thereby gives an artificial modern outlook. Instead of giving the names of rapacious Hindu gods, he uses the term ‘supreme universal spirit’ or the‘Absolute’ while referring to god. Vivekananda studied at Scottish Church College, Kolkota. When he addressed the Parliament of Religions at Chicago, he presented Christianized Hinduism, deliberately avoiding the depravity of Gods and cruel rites in Hinduism such as female infanticide, caste cruelty and barbarous customs like Sati in Hinduism. In his own state Bengal hundreds of young widows were being burnt alive when Vivekanada was lecturing in European countries on love and kindness in Hinduism. All religions of the world give importance to the activities of gods. But Hinduism thrives only on the basis of commentaries and interpretations by masking the wicked deeds of gods and barbarous Hindu rites such as burning of widows (sati), caste tyranny by which millions were killed without any trial and stifling superstition. Jaimini and Badarayana were responsible for the formulation of Vedic beliefs. The original Hindu scriptures such as the Vedas, the Ramayana and Bhagavad-Gita are packed with violent acts [ the Vedas deal with the savagery of the marauding Aryans and the suppression of native inhabitants, collectively calling them as dasas, mlechas and chandalas , the Ramayana deals with the expansion of the Aryans in the south and the war with the Dravidian Chief, Ravana and the killings of non-Aryans who were called demons,  and the Mahabharata deals with the intrigues,, conspiracies and wars  among the Aryan tribes]. So none of these sacred books of the Hindus advocates love, non-violence, fellowship and tolerance. It was to mask the cruel acts of gods in  Hinduism  that Jamini produced the Mimansa and Badarayana produced the Brahma Sutras.  Sayancharya produced a commentary on the Vedas, completely hiding  the caste hatred, conflicts and selfish pursuits of the invading Aryans.  The ancient religious doctrines of the Upanishads were reduced to an elaborate system of philosophy by Badarayana under the title of Vedanta Sutras. Although there is no philosophica thought in the original Hindu scriptures, by interpretation and commentary seven schools od philosophical thought were interposed only after the Christian era. The other interpreters were Sankara (about AD 820), Ramanuja (AD 1137) and Madhava (AD1276). All these interpretations and commentaries took place after the birth of Christianity.  Christianity was active in India in first century AD itself when Thomas,the disciple of Jesus, came to India and established several churches for the converts. Sankara was from Kerala and he was familiar with the teachings of Jesus which he came to know from the Christian community living in his neighbourhood. The production of commentaries led on the one hand to a tradition of interpretation, and on the other to several variants in interpretation. The strategy adopted to carry out this objective is to hide all the acts of gods and goddesses in the Hindu scriptures and to  project the Upanishads, the last book of the Vedas, as the new face of Hinduism. Tat tvam asi or Thou art That is a phrase in the Upanishads and it means that the individual soul (atman) is to be identified with the Supreme soul (Brahman) atma or identifiesmerges with the paramatma.  Obviously,  it is not a wise and practical  conception, for man can never become god. If men are also gods, planet earth will be a paradise.  It is a clever strategy to attract all to Hinduism by propagating this sweet-coated concept. Ambedkar says: “As to philosophy there is nothing of it in the Rig Veda.” Prof. Horace Hayman Wilson was a great Sanskrit scholar and Secretary of the Asiatic Society.   Wilson observes: “There is in the Rig-Veda, which is the stock Veda, scarcely any indication or doctrinal or philosophical speculation, no allusion to the later notions of the several schools, nor is there any hint of metempsychosis or of the doctrine intimately allied to it, of the repeated renovation of the world. The Vedas may be useful as a source of information regarding the social life of the Aryans. As a picture of primitive life it is full of curiosity but there is nothing elevating. There are more vices and a few virtues. “How many Ramayanas? Three hundred? Three thousand? At the end of some Ramayanas, a question is sometimes asked: How many Ramayanas have there been?" wondered the late poet and scholar A.K.Ramanujan of the Indian epic in a compelling essay he wrote for a University of Pittsburgh conference in 1987.

 

                 

 

 

 

From: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011 1:01 PM
Subject: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

My personal view is that Hindus or the Sanatani's or Vaidic Philosophy lacks the Political Will to spread the message. The main reason for that could be the concept of "Moksha"(मोक्ष), where in an Individual can attain it. 

Any other view points or comments!!!!

Dr. Ambekar.

On 25 Oct 2011, at 15:21, Arjun wrote:

even the monotheists are not united otherwise they wouldnt be living divided in so many countries .That proves the 'one' god theory is a total failure while the hindus with their many gods live mainly in one country.But the difference is the monotheists are more organised because they at least  are brought up on  a ideological direction .So they either work together or individually to that direction while hindus on the other hand are lead by organisations which lack total direction and if you add  groups like the Arya Samaj into the mix with its inferiority complex of desperately trying to put hindus into the monotheist straitjacket then tht only confuses hindus even more,,

.

__,_._,___

[bhagwat goel]

HINDUS ARE ORGANISED THEY HV TO REALISE.  SELF CENTRED LEADERS OF RSS WHO HAVE A DUTY TO DO SO HAVE NO INTEREST.  NOT HAPPY TO SAY RSS HAS A BRAHAMINICAL GRIP.  ONLY RSS PEOPLE SHOULD LEAD BJP OTHER HINDUS DONT MATTER.  WILL RSS COME CLEAN., ON THEIR PRIORITY TO HAVE THEIR AGENTS IN BJP TO CONTROL BJP.

From: ranjeet singh <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Pardip Kumar Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2011 5:38 AM

Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

Yes; but how do you know – and can say – that the person is a Hindu and not a vitriol-pouring Catholic, who have been instructed by their dog-collared ‘fathers’ for quite some time now to keep up and stick to their Hindu like names so as to betray the ever gullible Hindu?   Dr. Ranjeet Singh --- On Tue, 25/10/11, Pardip Kumar Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my> wrote:

From: Pardip Kumar Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my> Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP To: "Anil Bhanot" <bhano...@gmail.com>, "Radhakrishnan P" <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in> Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>, "Arjun" <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>, "bhagwat goel" <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>, "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>, "GOUTAM CHATTERJEE" <gchatt...@gmail.com>, "Harish Kotecha" <kot...@yahoo.com>, "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>, "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>, "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>, "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>, "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>, "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>, "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>, "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>, "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>, "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>, "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>, "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>, "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>, "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>, "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>, "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>, "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>, "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>, "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>, "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>, "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>, "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>, "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>, "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>, "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>, "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>, "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>, "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>, "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>, "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>, "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>, "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>, "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>, "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>, "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>, "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>, "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>, "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>, "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>, "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>, "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>, "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>, "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>, "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>, "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>, "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>, "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>, "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>, "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>, "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>, "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>, "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>, "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>, "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>, "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>, "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>, "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>, "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com> Date: Tuesday, 25 October, 2011, 10:51

I guess there are jokers in all societies and yes, we must learn to remove jokers from becoming the thinkers for grand philosophies and religions like Hinduism and Sanatana Dharma. Jokers have no place and we must not give time space nor time to entertain us with such garbage as written by P. Radhakrishnan. Best Regards Pardip "SAY NO TO RACISM"

From: Anil Bhanot Global Hindu Council <bhano...@gmail.com>Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:41:15 +0100To: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>Cc: "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>, bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>, "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>, GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>, Harish Kotecha USA <kot...@yahoo.com>, Pardip Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>, "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>, "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>, "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>, "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>, "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>, "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>, "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>, "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>, "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>, "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>, "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>, "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>, "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>, "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>, "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>, "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>, "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>, "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>, "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>, "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>, "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>, "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>, "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>, "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>, "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>, "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>, "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>, "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>, "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>, "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>, "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>, "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>, "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>, "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>, "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>, "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>, "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>, "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>, "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>, "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>, "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>, "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>, "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>, "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>, "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>, "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>, "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>, "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>, "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>, "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>, "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>, "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>, "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>, "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>, "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>, "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>, "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>, "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

This is why greater organisation is needed to debunk people like this P Radhakrishanan who harm Hindus from the inside, his write up below is full of hatred for the Hindu Dharma which he clearly does not understand but them goes on to spread his diatribe to confuse other Hindus.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

TAT TVAM ASI                The three Sanskrit words, tat tvam asi (thou art that), are regarded as the core of Hinduism. It means, Jivatma (individual soul) is also paramatma (God or universal soul).  In other words, man himself is God. The Bible says that the Devil tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit so that man could become god. How can man become god? Everybody wants to be god. Hindu concept of ‘You are God’ is only a fanciful thought and practically it will not be possible for a man to become god. If this concept is true, how can we call a rapist, a murderer, a terrorist a god?  Man is man; god is god.  In actual reality there are three hundred and thirty millions of gods in Hinduism. As Nehru says: “The Brahman priests had introduced all manner of rites and pujas and superstition, for the more there is of puja the more do the priests flourish. Caste was becoming stricter, and the common people were frightened by omens and spells and witchcraft and quackery.” Ambedkar points out in his book writings and speeches that the Hindu scriptures tell us that the famous god, Krishna, had sixteen thousand one hundred and eight wives, apart from his legitimate seven wives. He also says that the Hindu scriptures also tell us about the sexual debauchery of other gods like Siva, Indra, Brahma and Vishnu. And yet, to sell Hinduism in the West, Hindu leaders like Vivekananda, Radhakrishnan, Sri Ravi Shanker, Deepak Chopra, Bikram Choudhary  and others camouflage the nature and activities of the real gods and goddesses of Hinduism and project Hinduism as a religion of love and ahimsa. They take a sentence or words uttered by the characters of the mythological epics like the Ramayana or Mahabharata and give their own interpretation, studded with ideas heavily borrowed from Christianity, science, psychology and Western philosophy. As for instance, hiding the violence, deceit and duplicity in the Mahabaharata, they highlight a dialogue between Krishna and Arjuna in the battlefield, calling it Bhagavad Gita or Song of the Lord. Real character of Hindu gods and goddesses is masked. Christian ideals of love, justice, kindness, sacrifice and fellowship as well as psychology, science and Western philosophy are laced with the utterances of these characters to give a modern and cultured outlook to Hinduism. What has got quantum physics and Freudian psychology to do with primitive, mythological Hindu epics? But that is the strategy by which ancient Hinduism is projected to the westerners by interpolating whatever is modern in the West. Radhakrishnan studied philosophy in Madras Christian College, and he lavishly quotes Bradley, Spinoza, Hegel, Bergsen and other Western philosophers while interpreting primeval Hinduism and thereby gives an artificial modern outlook. Instead of giving the names of rapacious Hindu gods, he uses the term ‘supreme universal spirit’ or the‘Absolute’ while referring to god. Vivekananda studied at Scottish Church College, Kolkota. When he addressed the Parliament of Religions at Chicago, he presented Christianized Hinduism, deliberately avoiding the depravity of Gods and cruel rites in Hinduism such as female infanticide, caste cruelty and barbarous customs like Sati in Hinduism. In his own state Bengal hundreds of young widows were being burnt alive when Vivekanada was lecturing in European countries on love and kindness in Hinduism. All religions of the world give importance to the activities of gods. But Hinduism thrives only on the basis of commentaries and interpretations by masking the wicked deeds of gods and barbarous Hindu rites such as burning of widows (sati), caste tyranny by which millions were killed without any trial and stifling superstition. Jaimini and Badarayana were responsible for the formulation of Vedic beliefs. The original Hindu scriptures such as the Vedas, the Ramayana and Bhagavad-Gita are packed with violent acts [ the Vedas deal with the savagery of the marauding Aryans and the suppression of native inhabitants, collectively calling them as dasas, mlechas and chandalas , the Ramayana deals with the expansion of the Aryans in the south and the war with the Dravidian Chief, Ravana and the killings of non-Aryans who were called demons,  and the Mahabharata deals with the intrigues,, conspiracies and wars  among the Aryan tribes]. So none of these sacred books of the Hindus advocates love, non-violence, fellowship and tolerance. It was to mask the cruel acts of gods in  Hinduism  that Jamini produced the Mimansa and Badarayana produced the Brahma Sutras.  Sayancharya produced a commentary on the Vedas, completely hiding  the caste hatred, conflicts and selfish pursuits of the invading Aryans.  The ancient religious doctrines of the Upanishads were reduced to an elaborate system of philosophy by Badarayana under the title of Vedanta Sutras. Although there is no philosophica thought in the original Hindu scriptures, by interpretation and commentary seven schools od philosophical thought were interposed only after the Christian era. The other interpreters were Sankara (about AD 820), Ramanuja (AD 1137) and Madhava (AD1276). All these interpretations and commentaries took place after the birth of Christianity.  Christianity was active in India in first century AD itself when Thomas,the disciple of Jesus, came to India and established several churches for the converts. Sankara was from Kerala and he was familiar with the teachings of Jesus which he came to know from the Christian community living in his neighbourhood. The production of commentaries led on the one hand to a tradition of interpretation, and on the other to several variants in interpretation. Thestrategy adopted to carry out this objective is to hide all the acts of gods and goddesses in the Hindu scriptures and to  project the Upanishads, the last book of the Vedas, as the new face of Hinduism. Tat tvam asi or Thou art That is a phrase in the Upanishads and it means that the individual soul (atman) is to be identified with the Supreme soul (Brahman) atma or identifiesmerges with the paramatma.  Obviously,  it is not a wise and practical  conception, for man can never become god. If men are also gods, planet earth will be a paradise.  It is a clever strategy to attract all to Hinduism by propagating this sweet-coated concept. Ambedkar says: “As to philosophy there is nothing of it in the Rig Veda.” Prof. Horace Hayman Wilson was a great Sanskrit scholar and Secretary of the Asiatic Society.   Wilson observes: “There is in the Rig-Veda, which is the stock Veda, scarcely any indication or doctrinal or philosophical speculation, no allusion to the later notions of the several schools, nor is there any hint of metempsychosis or of the doctrine intimately allied to it, of the repeated renovation of the world. The Vedas may be useful as a source of information regarding the social life of the Aryans. As a picture of primitive life it is full of curiosity but there is nothing elevating. There are more vices and a few virtues. “How many Ramayanas? Three hundred? Three thousand? At the end of some Ramayanas, a question is sometimes asked: How many Ramayanas have there been?" wondered the late poet and scholar A.K.Ramanujan of the Indian epic in a compelling essay he wrote for a University of Pittsburgh conference in 1987.

From: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk> To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; Pardip <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011 1:01 PM Subject: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

My personal view is that Hindus or the Sanatani's or Vaidic Philosophy lacks the Political Will to spread the message. The main reason for that could be the concept of "Moksha"(मोक्ष), where in an Individual can attain it.  Any other view points or comments!!!! Dr. Ambekar.

On 25 Oct 2011, at 15:21, Arjun wrote:

even the monotheists are not united otherwise they wouldnt be living divided in so many countries .That proves the 'one' god theory is a total failure while the hindus with their many gods live mainly in one country.But the difference is the monotheists are more organised because they at least  are brought up on  a ideological direction .So they either work together or individually to that direction while hindus on the other hand are lead by organisations which lack total direction and if you add  groups like the Arya Samaj into the mix with its inferiority complex of desperately trying to put hindus into the monotheist straitjacket then tht only confuses hindus even more,,

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[Rabinder Koul]

You say "Omnipotence, you are saying is the attribute of God to which describes his ability to do whatever he wills",  

• That means his cannot will anything and everything, hence is constrained.. so he does not have complete free will, it is constrained... That makes your God False again, as he does not have complete free will. He cannot do anything contrary to his nature, is true for all of us including the lowliest of the creatures. So your God is not better in any way on this account. His Omnipotence is really not Omnipotence, as you have agreed..

You say " Omnipresence is the attribute of God by virtue of which He fills the universe in all its parts and is present everywhere at once."

• So if he fills all parts with himself at once, itself tells you that there can not be anything left that is different from him. For if anything different from him is left then that is the part he has not filled. So either the whole Universe including all beings are God or he is not Omnipresent. Do you understand that ?? I doubt it...

You said that "

Omniscience is the attribute of God by which He perfectly and eternally knows all things which can be known, past, present, and future."

• So again Can God create Knowledge that he can not know? If he does he is not Omniscient and if he can not then he is not Omni potent. So he can not simultaneously be Omnipotent and Omniscient. Hence no more a gOd. And what is same as loss of free will, since he is constrained to know what he creates...

These contradictions will not go away, no matter how much you wish..

  

 Your understanding of Dharma is completely faulty... There is no word for Cast in Samskrutam, that is the Portuguese word castis which your current masters have used to mis-translate.. You are confusing, Jaati, Varrna and Kulla three different terms with this word Castis from Portuguese your white masters..

Krishna in Bhagvat Geeta talks about VarNa, and he also says that VarNa is determined by teh GuNa and Karma... so your Castis meaning will not cut at all... 

Ravindra Koul

अस्मद्रूपसमाविष्ठ: स्वात्मनात्मानिवारणे 

शिव: करोतु निजया नम: शक्त्या ततात्मने 

On Oct 26, 2011, at 12:09 AM, Radhakrishnan P wrote:

What do you mean by 'Dharma' as your religion? Sanatana Dharma or Dharma is to follow strictly caste rules.The caste system created by Krishna split up society into a multitude of little communities, for every caste, and almost every local unit of a caste, has its own peculiar customs and internal regulations. Violation of caste rules, as we learn from Hindu scriptures, is violation of Dharma. So a Sudra like Sambuk was punished not for murder or rape but for leading a good life by indulging in tapas. Ram kills this innocent boy for violating caste rules (Sanatana Dharma), for tapas could be performed only by higher castes. This is dharma! By applying Sanatana Dharma millions of lower castes were oppressed for centuries. They were liberated by breaking the shackles of Sanatana Dharma only during the British rule.

You have not understood the attributes of God in Christianity and you are mixing it with the cruel 'Dharma.

'

Attributes of God in Christianity.

1. Omnipotence is the attribute of God which describes His ability to do whatever He wills.He cannot do anything contrary to His nature as God, such as to ignore sin or to do something absurd or self-contradictory.

2. Omnipresence is the attribute of God by virtue of which He fills the universe in all its parts and is present everywhere at once.

3. Omniscience is the attribute of God by which He perfectly and eternally knows all things which can be known, past, present, and future.

---

From: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>
To: Radhakrishnan P <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Prem Sabhlok <psab...@hotmail.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; Pardip Kumar Kukreja <par...@paradisegroup.com.my>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Harish Kotecha <kot...@yahoo.com>; "ramm...@sangh.in" <ramm...@sangh.in>; "drtog...@gmail.com" <drtog...@gmail.com>; "vhpin...@gmail.com" <vhpin...@gmail.com>; "j.sr...@yahoo.com" <j.sr...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2011 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: (Desiyatra)-- Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

[ramans shriman]

Tamso ma jyotir gamaya -Vs -Macaulayo ma hindutvam  gamaya   1-Hey prabhu  hame  andhkaar se prakash ki or le chal 2- Hey prabhu  hame  Macaulay agyan  aivam bhrastachar se hindtuva ke gyan aivam sadachar  ki or le chal. 3- Hey prabhu  hame  dirty destructive democracy se lakshya chatushtya dayak raj dharma  ki or le chal 4- Hey prabhu  hame  criminal, corrupt, cruel, croocked,  desh drohi,  hindu killer  parliament se  dharm sabha  ki or le chal. 5- Hey prabhu  hame  dirty politics se dharma- niti  ki or le chal 6- Hey prabhu  hame  Human Rights se Manviy Kartvayo ki or le chal 7- Hey prabhu  hame  Guatma Gandhi ki falsehood Ahinsa se Vedic Ahinsa ( Nirvair Hinsa )  ki or le chal 8- Hey prabhu  hame  one- way- secularism/ falsehood minority se chatur-varnashram  ki or le chal 9- Hey prabhu  hame  Macaulay school, college,  university se Vedic gurukul shiksha paddhhti   ki or le chal. 10-  Hey prabhu  hame  history ke falsehood se Itihaas  ke satya ki  or le chal 11- Hey prabhu  hame  life killer medical science  se aayu-vardhak Ayurved  ki or le chal 12- Hey prabhu  hame  human being ki alpayu se Manushya prani ki shatayu  ki or le chal 13 -  Hey prabhu  hame  human being ki akaal mrityu/ ICU mrityu se  Manushya prani ki ichha mritue  ki or le chal. 14- Hey prabhu  hame durachari  hotel paddhhtti se sadachari Atithi Grah paddhhti  ki or le chal. 15- Hey prabhu  hame meat / Ku Bhaksh  bhojan  pdartho se  shudh swasthya varadahk bhojya pdartho ki or le chal. 16- Hey prabhu  hame  bar, pub,  alcohol, spirit   se  Som ras , brahmi ras,  ayurvedic raso ki or le chal. 17 -  Hey prabhu  hame  sawsthya /shreer nashak gym exercise se  yogshala  ki or le chal 18- Hey prabhu  hamare taruno / yuvak yuvtiyo ko Road Romeo / Mall Animals se hatakar Dharm  karyo ki  or le chal 19- Hey prabhu  hame  “Naari dukhyante / Dusht Ramante”  se hata kar “Naari Pujynate / Devta Ramante”   ki or le chal 20 - Hey prabhu  hame  Hindu fooling parties aivam organizations se hata kar Shudh Hindu samaj ki  or le chal

[Arjun]

go back to sleep mate with your monotheists fantasy of 'one' god which cant even unite the real monotheists lol

---

From: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
To: GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>
Cc: shyam_n...@yahoo.com; satish...@yahoo.com; arjun...@yahoo.co.uk; psab...@hotmail.com; bhano...@gmail.com; hita...@gmail.com; kata...@aol.com; sadhak_...@yahoo.com; jitender...@gmail.com; kri...@hindupedia.com; shankara...@yahoo.com; london...@yahoo.co.uk; tinasa...@yahoo.com; irmamuns...@gmail.com; sande...@hotmail.com; ani...@yahoo.co.uk; govind...@hotmail.com; rishi...@hotmail.com; ranbir...@talktalk.net; culturalbri...@yahoo.com; tcgm...@hotmail.com; vyshv...@gmail.com; live_by...@yahoo.co.uk; drmna...@yahoo.co.uk; rsin...@yahoo.com; brah...@yahoo.com; aryasam...@yahoogroups.com; aryayou...@yahoogroups.com; bhagav...@yahoo.ca; akansh...@yahoo.com; arya...@hotmail.com; mish...@aol.com; msb...@yahoo.com; naveen...@yahoo.co.in; arun_...@yahoo.com; jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in; puneet...@gmail.com; ashwini...@yahoo.ca; eka...@btinternet.com; jayasw...@gmail.com; as_...@rediffmail.com; baksh...@yahoo.com; skan...@gmail.com; op.t...@gmail.com; bharat...@gmail.com; ahven...@gmail.com; gir...@aryasamaj.com; arr...@ameritech.net; desi...@googlegroups.com; vijaya...@yahoo.com; ashoks...@rediffmail.com; satyar...@gmail.com; vsg...@yahoo.com; arya.v...@gmail.com; kcg...@yahoo.com; su_...@ymail.com; ajaya...@gmail.com; rajpa...@yahoo.com; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>; vivek <drviv...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011, 5:26
Subject: Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

My humble submission is as follows:

Sri Swami Vigyanananda ji has prepared this article on Hindu Unity and same can be seen on the official web of VHP.

In the said article Swami Vigyanananda ji has quoted a dialogue of Maharshi Dayananda Saraswati (1825-1883) with the then Commissioner of Amritsar Mr Perkins.

I would like to inform here that Sri Swami Vigyanananda ji has quoted this dialogue incompletely and its concluding portion has been deliberately dropped. Because in the end of the talk when Maharshi Dayananda was asked about what sort of religion (dharma) did he wish to propagate, he said in plain words that - "I want people to follow the teachings of the Vedas, to believe in and worship only one God who is without a body, to acquire virtues and give up vices."

This shows that Maharshi Dayananda was against the co-existence of the prevailing  various warring sects and sub-sects. He stood for unity of mankind based on truth, reason and justice. This is evident from his works like Satyarth-prakash etc. He wanted to make Dharma totally sampradaay-free.

Swami Vigyanananda ji's thoughts on "Hindu" have been critically examined by Dr. Veerendra Sharma in a Hindi book - "Hindoo Naam - Kasauti par". This book has been published a few years ago by "Sri Ghudamal Prahlad Kumar Arya Dharmarth Trust, Byania Pada, Hindon City, Dist- Karauli, Pin-322230, Rajasthan". The price of this book may not be more than Rs 30/-.

Bhavesh Merja

[Rabinder Koul]

It is not Monotheism, but the Monistic tradtion that is teh Vedic notion. The Naasaadiya Sukta an dteh Purusha Sukta are the glaring instances of that.

Ravindra Koul

अस्मद्रूपसमाविष्ठ: स्वात्मनात्मानिवारणे 

शिव: करोतु निजया नम: शक्त्या ततात्मने 

On Oct 31, 2011, at 2:29 AM, Bhavesh Merja wrote:

Monotheism (Ekeshwarvaad = understanding that God - the Supreme Power is one, and not many) is a Vedic concept. It is not a new invention made by Arya Samaj or Swami Dayananda Saraswati. It is one of the most fundamental concepts of the Vedic dharma. We should not forget this fact.

Swami Sachchidaananda ji (head quarter: Bhakti Niketan Ashram, Dantali-Petlad-Gujarat) is a famous & respectable person of Gujarat. He is not a member of Arya Samaj. He is just like a free thinker. He has widely travelled the world and gave so many lectures on various topics at different places. He has also written so many books in Gujarati (many of them translated in English and Hindi) and he is considered as one of the most popular authors of Gujarat. In one of his most popular book named "Prithvi-Pradaxinaa" (means tour around the world) on page no. 163 he has very sadly described his observation that when our Hindu children in UK, USA etc. are asked by their local classmates of alien faiths about various so-called Gods & Goddesses worshiped and believed by the Hindus, they fail to offer any reasonable & convincing response. Their classmates ask - what is your monkey-god? What is your elephant-god? So on and so forth. How can our children give their answers? Even their parents don't know the answers of such questions. Not only that, our religious teachers and gurus visiting these countries (mostly to collect money?) even don't know the genuine solutions of such questions. Our Pauraanic religion has created such confusion about God! Here in this book Swami Sachchidananda ji has remembered the great contribution of Maharshi Dayananda. He mentioned that it was Maharshi Dayananda only who tried to remove such gross confusions about the nature of God and to re-establish the worship of One God as explained in the Upanishads. But this task of removal of such misconception has been very difficult. Who would be ready to speak the truth giving sacrifice of personal interests, livelihood and earning? (I have quoted the above lines based on my memory. To know the exact statements of author please refer the said book - Bhavesh).

So this is the present grave scenario of our religion. Only the true concept of Monotheism as described in the Vedas, Upanishads and Darshan-books like Yog, Sankhya etc. can give us the right direction and fruitful spiritual and religious life.

Therefore, Swami Dayananda's great contribution should be duly honored - if we really wish to make our dharma most universal and scientific.

= Bhavesh Merja

[Anil Bhanot]

Monotheism is  'God is one' and not 'one God'. That is why some Christians have a problem as they have three gods - father, son and the holy ghost, which goes against their monotheism of God is one only.  Vedic God is infinite beyond numbers such as one or 33 though 33 is used merely for Natures Shrishti's aspects  - Brahm is Sarva.
Is there a Vedic shaloka using the number one in relation to Brahm....I am asking because I do not know, please if anyone enlighten us on that it would be good. In any case 'God is one' is different from 'one God' and monotheism is definitely not Vedic theism, which at best may be described as 'plurotheism'.
Anil Bhanot

On Monday, October 31, 2011, Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Monotheism (Ekeshwarvaad = understanding that God - the Supreme Power is one, and not many) is a Vedic concept. It is not a new invention made by Arya Samaj or Swami Dayananda Saraswati. It is one of the most fundamental concepts of the Vedic dharma. We should not forget this fact.
>
> Swami Sachchidaananda ji (head quarter: Bhakti Niketan Ashram, Dantali-Petlad-Gujarat) is a famous & respectable person of Gujarat. He is not a member of Arya Samaj. He is just like a free thinker. He has widely travelled the world and gave so many lectures on various topics at different places. He has also written so many books in Gujarati (many of them translated in English and Hindi) and he is considered as one of the most popular authors of Gujarat. In one of his most popular book named "Prithvi-Pradaxinaa" (means tour around the world) on page no. 163 he has very sadly described his observation that when our Hindu children in UK, USA etc. are asked by their local classmates of alien faiths about various so-called Gods & Goddesses worshiped and believed by the Hindus, they fail to offer any reasonable & convincing response. Their classmates ask - what is your monkey-god? What is your elephant-god? So on and so forth. How can our children give their answers? Even their parents don't know the answers of such questions. Not only that, our religious teachers and gurus visiting these countries (mostly to collect money?) even don't know the genuine solutions of such questions. Our Pauraanic religion has created such confusion about God! Here in this book Swami Sachchidananda ji has remembered the great contribution of Maharshi Dayananda. He mentioned that it was Maharshi Dayananda only who tried to remove such gross confusions about the nature of God and to re-establish the worship of One God as explained in the Upanishads. But this task of removal of such misconception has been very difficult. Who would be ready to speak the truth giving sacrifice of personal interests, livelihood and earning? (I have quoted the above lines based on my memory. To know the exact statements of author please refer the said book - Bhavesh).
>
> So this is the present grave scenario of our religion. Only the true concept of Monotheism as described in the Vedas, Upanishads and Darshan-books like Yog, Sankhya etc. can give us the right direction and fruitful spiritual and religious life.
>
> Therefore, Swami Dayananda's great contribution should be duly honored - if we really wish to make our dharma most universal and scientific.
>
> = Bhavesh Merja
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>

> go back to sleep mate with your monotheists fantasy of 'one' god which cant even unite the real monotheists lol
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
> To: GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>
> Cc: shyam_n...@yahoo.com; satish...@yahoo.com; arjun...@yahoo.co.uk; psab...@hotmail.com; bhano...@gmail.com; hita...@gmail.com; kata...@aol.com; sadhak_...@yahoo.com; jitender...@gmail.com; kri...@hindupedia.com; shankara...@yahoo.com; london...@yahoo.co.uk; tinasa...@yahoo.com; irmamuns...@gmail.com; sande...@hotmail.com; ani...@yahoo.co.uk; govind...@hotmail.com; rishi...@hotmail.com; ranbir...@talktalk.net; culturalbri...@yahoo.com; tcgm...@hotmail.com; vyshv...@gmail.com; live_by...@yahoo.co.uk; drmna...@yahoo.co.uk; rsin...@yahoo.com; brah...@yahoo.com; aryasam...@yahoogroups.com; aryayou...@yahoogroups.com; bhagav...@yahoo.ca;

[Arjun]

you think the Arya Samaj are the only confused cult that suffers from the monotheist inferiority complex ? Theres many other  Gurus / Swamis who are also suffering from the same confusion.Ive been brought up in western schools and was very rarely asked about anything about elephant or monkey gods.And if i did i had the right answers . And when discussions of the environment were discussed the teacher herself praised Hinduism for including the aspect of god in animals as well.And also the Ganesh deity is the most selling in the west .So this thing about some hindu kid having no answers if asked about monkey god or elephant god is totally ridiculous .Im not going to suddenly get an inferiority complex and then beg to be classed as a monotheist by alien faiths that are themselves backward or believe in some rotting corpse on a cross or some paedophile prophet which both have a crimes against humanity where millions have been killed to accept me as a monotheist..And good luck to this swami but as usual hes another product of the indian colonial maucalaite education system regardless if hes a Hindu swami or not but lets face it most indians especially from india if they are pro hindu or anti hindu mainly suffer from a slave mentality so its no wonder they have an italian au pair running the country.Whats next the vedas were originally Italian..You can shove your arya cult samaj up your behind along with your leader Swami Agnivesh...

---

From: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>

To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "bhano...@gmail.com" <bhano...@gmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>; vivek <drviv...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2011, 23:29

Subject: Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

Monotheism (Ekeshwarvaad = understanding that God - the Supreme Power is one, and not many) is a Vedic concept. It is not a new invention made by Arya Samaj or Swami Dayananda Saraswati. It is one of the most fundamental concepts of the Vedic dharma. We should not forget this fact.

Swami Sachchidaananda ji (head quarter: Bhakti Niketan Ashram, Dantali-Petlad-Gujarat) is a famous & respectable person of Gujarat. He is not a member of Arya Samaj. He is just like a free thinker. He has widely travelled the world and gave so many lectures on various topics at different places. He has also written so many books in Gujarati (many of them translated in English and Hindi) and he is considered as one of the most popular authors of Gujarat. In one of his most popular book named "Prithvi-Pradaxinaa" (means tour around the world) on page no. 163 he has very sadly described his observation that when our Hindu children in UK, USA etc. are asked by their local classmates of alien faiths about various so-called Gods & Goddesses worshiped and believed by the Hindus, they fail to offer any reasonable & convincing response. Their classmates ask - what is your monkey-god? What is your elephant-god? So on and so forth. How can our children give their answers? Even their parents don't know the answers of such questions. Not only that, our religious teachers and gurus visiting these countries (mostly to collect money?) even don't know the genuine solutions of such questions. Our Pauraanic religion has created such confusion about God! Here in this book Swami Sachchidananda ji has remembered the great contribution of Maharshi Dayananda. He mentioned that it was Maharshi Dayananda only who tried to remove such gross confusions about the nature of God and to re-establish the worship of One God as explained in the Upanishads. But this task of removal of such misconception has been very difficult. Who would be ready to speak the truth giving sacrifice of personal interests, livelihood and earning? (I have quoted the above lines based on my memory. To know the exact statements of author please refer the said book - Bhavesh).

So this is the present grave scenario of our religion. Only the true concept of Monotheism as described in the Vedas, Upanishads and Darshan-books like Yog, Sankhya etc. can give us the right direction and fruitful spiritual and religious life.

Therefore, Swami Dayananda's great contribution should be duly honored - if we really wish to make our dharma most universal and scientific.

= Bhavesh Merja

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[vivek arya]

IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

    

http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/is-there-polytheism-in-vedas/

 

USA senate few days back was started with the chanting of Vedic
mantras and prayers by Hindu priest Rajan Zed. Its first time in USA
senate history that the senate sounded with the holy Vedic mantras.
Unfortunately the awesome event was followed by protest from
Christian members of senate who protested against the prayers saying
that the Hindus are believers of polytheism and only bible prayers
should be done, as Christ is the only god. My aim to write this
article is not to show sorrow what had happened but to clear one
untouched doubt from minds of general mass that is there polytheism
in Vedas?

Vedas, no doubt the most ancient sacred texts found on
globe are the most valuable gift in form of knowledge for the whole
mankind. The holy message in Vedas is for whole humanity
irrespective of caste, creed and religion. Many Indian Acharyas like
Madhvacharya, Sayanacharya to western ones like Max Muller, Wilson
one are available with the latest and most authentic one by Swami
Dayanand Saraswati.

Few acharyas have propagated polytheism (pleurisy of gods);
some says monism (development of the universe from a single element)
while Max Muller even coined a new tern name henotheism (each of
several divinities is regarded as the supreme each in its sphere).
My article will try to put light on ignored truth of monotheism in
Vedas and explanation of the concept of 33 Devas.

Atharvaveda 13/4/6-9 and 21 clearly says that “God is
neither the second, nor the third, nor yet the fourth. He is called
neither the fifth, nor the sixth, nor yet the seventh. He is neither
the eighth, nor the ninth, nor yet the tenth. He takes care of all
that breathes and all that does not breathes. He has got all this
conquering power, he is the one, one and the only one”

Rig 10/121/1 says ” God who possesses all the luminous
worlds within himself and exists from the very eternity, he is the
only one manifest lord of the created creatures”.

Yaju 23/3 says ” He who by the greatness of his power, is
the sole ruler of living and lifeless objects existing in this
world”

The oneness of god has been poetically described in Rig
10/31/5 as ” he whose eyes go everywhere, who faces all sides, whose
arms are here, there all around and whose feet in all directions is
the only one divine being who has created all these heavens.”
There are many Vedic mantras like these singing the glory of
single god in the Vedas. Few readers might have a doubt in mind that
if Vedas says about monotheism than whom among Brahma, Vishnu,
Shiva, Indra etc is the supreme god. Answer is very simple. Just as
a person is called brother, father, uncle, husband etc because of
different relationships he bears to other members of the same
family, so also god is described differently because of his
different attributes. Agni (embodiment of knowledge), Indra (vast
wealth owner or commander), Vishnu (omnipresent), Brahma (great),
Varuna (purifier), Mitra (loves everyone), Rudra (harsh the wicked
ones), Dravinoda (giver of wealth and strength) soma (creator of
herbs, roots etc.) are his different names given in Rig 2/1/3-7.
Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati in first chapter of his famous work
Satyarth Prakash (light of truth) clearly mentions hundred such
meaning of several names of god in a magnificent way.

Now our other question that how can we reconcile the idea
of one god with several references to 33 Devas (gods) in the Vedas?
Deva (from nirukta 7.15) according to yaskacharya, the celebrated
author of nirukta (Vedic philology) means one who confers some
advantage upon us, can illuminate things i.e. explain or throw light
upon them, and one who is the source of light. So, it’s a
comprehensive term covering bravemen, devotees of god, learned
persons, and objects like sun, moon, fire, and electricity. The 33
Devas mentioned in rig 1/45/27, 8/28/1, 88/30/2 and Yaju 20/26 and
Satpatha Brahmin are 8 Vasus, 11 Rudras, 12 Adityas, Indra and
Prajapati. The eight Vasus are (1) Agni or Fire (2) Earth (3) Air
(4) Supraterestrial space (5) Sun (6) Moon (7) Atmosphere (8) Stars.
These are called Vasus (abodes) as in them resides all that lives,
moves or exists. The eleven Rudras are the ten Pranas (vital forces)
enlivening the human frame and the eleventh is the Atma or the
soul. The 12 Adityas are the twelve solar months making course of
time. They are called Adityas as by their cyclic motion, they
produce changes in all objects. Indra is all pervading and Prajapati
is Yajna. Also it’s written that the god is the father of the Devas
(Rig 2/26/3), their friend (Rig 1/94/3) and their soul (Atharv
7/11/1) and Atharv mentions that the Devas live around god as the
creepers around a tree.

So we now have come to the conclusion by several evidences
from Vedas that the Vedas sings the glory of the only god. I hope
that most readers will now change their opinion about polytheism in
Vedas. Almighty god is our first benefactor who gave instructions in
the form of Vedas to all human beings at the time of creation to
help them achieve physical, mental and spiritual progress. The
Vedas are like sun which sometimes if covered under the dark shadows
of ignorance for a while shines again even brighter as the clouds
are blown away by the breeze of wind of time. May the supreme
almighty only god gives us wisdom and prosperity.

From: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>
To: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "bhano...@gmail.com" <bhano...@gmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>; vivek <drviv...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: HINDU SOCIETY IS A "UNITED" SOCIETY, BUT NEEDS TO BE "ORGANISED" - Swami Vigyananand, Jt. Gen. Secy., VHP

It is not Monotheism, but the Monistic tradtion that is teh Vedic notion. The Naasaadiya Sukta an dteh Purusha Sukta are the glaring instances of that.

Ravindra Koul

अस्मद्रूपसमाविष्ठ: स्वात्मनात्मानिवारणे 

शिव: करोतु निजया नम: शक्त्या ततात्मने 

On Oct 31, 2011, at 2:29 AM, Bhavesh Merja wrote:

Monotheism (Ekeshwarvaad = understanding that God - the Supreme Power is one, and not many) is a Vedic concept. It is not a new invention made by Arya Samaj or Swami Dayananda Saraswati. It is one of the most fundamental concepts of the Vedic dharma. We should not forget this fact.

Swami Sachchidaananda ji (head quarter: Bhakti Niketan Ashram, Dantali-Petlad-Gujarat) is a famous & respectable person of Gujarat. He is not a member of Arya Samaj. He is just like a free thinker. He has widely travelled the world and gave so many lectures on various topics at different places. He has also written so many books in Gujarati (many of them translated in English and Hindi) and he is considered as one of the most popular authors of Gujarat. In one of his most popular book named "Prithvi-Pradaxinaa" (means tour around the world) on page no. 163 he has very sadly described his observation that when our Hindu children in UK, USA etc. are asked by their local classmates of alien faiths about various so-called Gods & Goddesses worshiped and believed by the Hindus, they fail to offer any reasonable & convincing response. Their classmates ask - what is your monkey-god? What is your elephant-god? So on and so forth. How can our children give their answers? Even their parents don't know the answers of such questions. Not only that, our religious teachers and gurus visiting these countries (mostly to collect money?) even don't know the genuine solutions of such questions. Our Pauraanic religion has created such confusion about God! Here in this book Swami Sachchidananda ji has remembered the great contribution of Maharshi Dayananda. He mentioned that it was Maharshi Dayananda only who tried to remove such gross confusions about the nature of God and to re-establish the worship of One God as explained in the Upanishads. But this task of removal of such misconception has been very difficult. Who would be ready to speak the truth giving sacrifice of personal interests, livelihood and earning? (I have quoted the above lines based on my memory. To know the exact statements of author please refer the said book - Bhavesh).

So this is the present grave scenario of our religion. Only the true concept of Monotheism as described in the Vedas, Upanishads and Darshan-books like Yog, Sankhya etc. can give us the right direction and fruitful spiritual and religious life.

Therefore, Swami Dayananda's great contribution should be duly honored - if we really wish to make our dharma most universal and scientific.

= Bhavesh Merja

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

go back to sleep mate with your monotheists fantasy of 'one' god which cant even unite the real monotheists lol

[Anil Bhanot]

So according to this there is the word EK then in Vedas? I hope its not inferred from the sentence not two, not three...etc. 

But Vivek ji, on your point that Christians objected etc. because Hinduism they said is polytheists is exactly why we have learnt to now reject against such propaganda but by understanding their monotheism and that which the Hindu Vedic God is not. The Hindu Vedic God, 'one' if you like to confine your understanding to finite numbers, or otherwise all, not two, not three etc. etc. as in Yajur Veda below,  it makes no difference, just semantics, but in substance the Hindu Vedic God is not SEPARATE from its CREATION sitting up in some remote Heaven, passing judgements over its own Creation and meting out rewards and punishments which is what is the main attribute of the monotheistic God.

anil bhanot

[Arjun]

more agniveer nonsense lol  unleash the legend within....

---

From: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>

To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011, 10:18
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

FIRST AND FORMOST POINT I WILL LIKE TO SHARE WITH ALL READERS IS ABOUT LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ATTRIBUTES OF GOD IN HINDUISM. AS THE VEDAS ARE THE SUPREME TEXTS OF HINDUS SO GOD MUST BE BELEIVED AS PER MENTIONED IN VEDAS.

 

I AM SHARING LINK WITH YOU ALL WITH AN ARTICLE IN HINDI NAME VEDON MEIN ISHWAR KA SWAROOP .

 

 

http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/09/02/dayanand-vedas-5/

 

THIS ARTICLE CLEARLY GIVES US DESCRIPTION OF GOD IN VEDAS AS ONE, UNBORN, FORMLESS,OMNISCIENT, OMNIPOTENT,EVERLASTING,NEVER TAKING AVTAR ETC.

 

EVEN NOW IF SOME ONE BELIEVES GOD AS DIFFERENT ONE THEN HE OR SHE IS NOT OBEYING THE HOLY VEDAS.

 

DR VIVEK ARYA

 

 

 

 

वेदों में ईश्वर का स्वरुप

डॉ विवेक आर्य

स्वामी दयानंद जी वेद के मत को ही अपना मत मानते हैं. सत्यार्थ प्रकाश के तृतीय समुल्लास में अपने मत के विषय में लिखते हैं , प्रश्न- तुम्हारा मत क्या हैं? उत्तर- वेद, अर्थात जो जो वेद में करने और छोड़ने की शिक्षा की हैं, उस उसका हम यथावत करना, छोड़ना मानते हैं, जिस लिए वेद हमको मान्य हैं, इसलिए हमारा मत वेद हैं. ऐसा ही मानकर सब मनुष्यों को विशेषत: आर्यों को ऐकमत्य होकर रहना चाहिए. स्वामी दयानंद जब प्रचार के लिए धर्म क्षेत्र में उतरे तो उन्होंने पाया की वेद में ईश्वर का जो एकेश्वरवाद, अजन्मा,सर्वव्यापक,अनादी, नित्य, अनंत, सर्व शक्तिमान स्वरुप हैं उसका स्थान बहुदेवतावाद,अवतारवाद, मूर्ति पूजा, अज्ञानी ईश्वर ने ले लिया हैं.इसीलिए स्वामी दयानंद ने तीव्र वेग से फैल रहे पाखंड का खंडन किया और वेदों में वर्णित ईश्वर के सत्य स्वरुप को सामान्य जन के लिए प्रस्तुत कर अज्ञान रुपी अंधकार का नाश किया और ज्ञान रुपी प्रकाश का प्रचार किया.स्वामी दयानंद की सभी मान्यतों का अधर केवल और केवल वेद ही हैं.

आइये वेदों में वर्णित ईश्वर के सत्य स्वरुप को जाने.

१. ईश्वर एक ही हैं.

वेद के सायण आदि आचार्यों के भाष्यों तथा उनके आधार पर लिए गए पाश्चात्य विद्वानों के वेदों के अनुवादों को पढने से पाठकों ने वेद जगत के कर्ता- धर्ता और नियन्ता एक ईश्वर को मानने के स्थान पर अग्नि, इन्द्र, वरुण, मित्र आदि अनेक देवी देवताओं को मानने लगे. स्वामी दयानंद ने स्पष्ट रूप से घोषणा की वेद एकेश्वरवादी हैं न की बहुदेवतावादी.

वेदों में एकेश्वरवाद के प्रमाण

१. ऋग्वेद १.१६४.४६ – उसी एक परमात्मा को इन्द्र, मित्र, वरुण, अग्नि, दिव्या, सुपर्ण, गरुत्मान, यम और मातरिश्वा आदि अनेक नामों से कहते हैं.

२. यजुर्वेद ३२.१- अग्नि, आदित्य, वायु, चंद्रमा, शुक्र, ब्रह्मा, आप: और प्रजापति- यह सब नाम उसी एक परमात्मा के हैं.

३. ऋग्वेद १०.८२.३ और अथर्ववेद २.१.३- वह परमात्मा एक हैं और सब देवों के नामों को धारण करने वाला हैं, अर्थात सब देवों के नाम उसी के हैं.

४. ऋग्वेद २.१ सूक्त में अग्नि शब्द को ज्ञानस्वरूप परमात्मा का वाचक के रूप में संबोधन करते हुए कहाँ गया हैं की हे अग्नि, तुम इन्द्र हो, तुम विष्णु हो, तुम ब्रह्मणस्पति, वरुण, मित्र, अर्यमा, त्वष्टा हो. तुम रूद्र, पूषा, सविता, भग, ऋभु , अदिति, सरस्वती,आदित्य और ब्रह्मा हो.

५. अथर्ववेद १३.४ (२), १५-२०- जो व्यक्ति इस परमात्मा देव को एक रूप में विद्यमान जनता हैं, जो की वह न दूसरा हैं, न तीसरा हैं और न चौथा हैं ऐसा जानता हैं, जोकि वह पांचवा हैं, न छठा हैं और न सांतवा हैं ऐसा जानता हैं, जोकि वह न आठवां हैं, न नवां हैं और न दसवां हैं ऐसा जानता हैं, वह सब कुछ जानता हैं. वह चेतन और अचेतन संपूर्ण रहस्य को जन लेता हैं. उसी परमात्मा देव में यह सारा जगत समाया हुआ हैं. वह देव अत्यंत सहन शक्ति वाला हैं. वह एक ही हैं, अकेला ही वर्तमान हैं, वह एक ही हैं.

इस प्रकार वेदों में अनेक प्रमाण केवल एक ईश्वर के हैं बहुदेवतावाद का स्पष्ट खंडन हैं.

२. ईश्वर अजन्मा, अनादी, नित्य सर्वव्यापक और अनंत हैं.

वेदों में परमात्मा को कभी जन्म न लेने वाला, कभी उत्पन्न न होने वाला, सदा से वर्तमान रहने वाला, स्वयंभू , अपने स्वरुप में सदा विद्यमान रहने वाला जिससे उसका आदि या आरंभ और अंत कभी नहीं हो सकता बताया गया हैं. स्वामी दयानंद की यह मान्यता वेदों के आधार पर ही बनी हैं.

१. ऋग्वेद १.६७.३- हे ज्ञानस्वरूप परमात्मा,आप अज हो, अजन्मा हो, अपने पृथ्वी और धुलोक को धारण किया हुआ हैं.

२. ऋग्वेद ६.५०.१४ में परमात्मा को सारे जगत का एकमात्र रक्षक बताते हुए उसे अज अर्थात अजन्मा भी कहा हैं.

३. ऋग्वेद १.१७४.३ मंत्र में कहा हैं की हे परमऐश्वर्याशाली परमात्मन. आप अज हो अर्थात अजन्मा हो.

४. ऋग्वेद १.१०२.८ में कहाँ गया हैं की हे परमात्मन आप सनात अर्थात सदा से ही उत्पन्न हो, सदा से हे विद्यमान हो.

५. ऋग्वेद २.१६.१ में ईश्वर को सनात अर्थात सदा से वर्तमान कहा गया हैं .

६. ऋग्वेद २.१६.१ में ईश्वर को सदा ही ईश्वर को युवा रहने वाला अर्थात परमात्मा कभी वृद्ध नहीं होता, वह सदा ही जरा रहित अजर रहता हैं.वह बाल्य अवस्था और वृद्ध अवस्था यस अन्य किसी प्रकार की जीर्णता या क्षीणता से रहित होता हैं.

७. इसी भांति ऋग्वेद १.६६.१, १.१४०.७, १.१४१.२ , ३.२५.५, तथा ७.८८.६ में ईश्वर को नित्य कहाँ गया हैं.

८. यजुर्वेद ४०.८ में ईश्वर को स्वयंभू अर्थात जो सदा से अपने स्वरुप में वर्तमान हैं कहाँ गया हैं.

९. अथर्ववेद १०.८.१२ मंत्र में ईश्वर को अनंत अर्थात सर्वव्यापक कहाँ गया हैं.

१०. यजुर्वेद ३२.८ – वह विभु , सर्वव्यापक,परमात्मा विश्व ब्रह्माण्ड के सब उत्पन्न पदार्थो में ओत-प्रोत होकर व्यापक हैं.

इस प्रकार जो लोग ईश्वर को वेद विरुद्ध अवतार लेने वाला, बाल लीला दिखाने वाला, वृद्ध होकर मृत्यु को प्राप्त होने वाला, एक स्थान पर रहने वाला अर्थात कैलाश या क्षीर सागर में विराज करने वाला, अज्ञान रूप से राक्षसों को वरदान देकर ईश्वर से भी ज्यादा शक्तिशाली बनाने वाला आदि मानते हैं वे स्पष्ट रूप से वेदों के विरुद्ध चलकर अंधकार में हैं.

३.केवल एक ईश्वर ही उपास्य देव हैं और मूर्ति पूजा और अवतारवाद वेद संगत नहीं हैं.

आज हिन्दू समाज मुख्यत: मूर्ति पूजक समाज बन गया हैं, छोटे छोटे पत्थरों को ईश्वर की मूर्ती समझ कर पूजने से लेकर, बड़े बड़े मंदिरों में अनेकों स्वर्ण-मोती जड़ित मूर्तियों से लेकर मूर्ति पूजा का आधुनिक स्वरुप उन मुसलमानों की कब्रों का पूजन बन गया हैं जो भारत पर आक्रमण करने आये थे और हमारे वीर पूर्वजों के हाथों दोज़ख में पंहुचा दिए गए थे.कोई मूर्तियों को ईश्वर पर ध्यान केन्द्रित करने का साधन बताता हैं तो कोई यह तर्क देता हैं की प्राण प्रतिष्ठा के पश्चात ईश्वर स्वयं मूर्तियों में विराजमान हो जाते हैं.हमारी छोटी सी शंका सदा यहीं रहती हैं की क्यों मूर्ति में विराजमान ईश्वर मुसलमानों के आक्रमण के समय अपनी रक्षा नहीं कर पाते हैं. या तो सोमनाथ की तरह विध्वंश के शिकार हो जाते हैं अथवा काशी विश्वनाथ की तरह कुँए में छुपा दिए जाते हैं.वेदों में केवल और केवल एक ही ईश्वर की उपासना का विधान हैं.

स्वामी दयानंद सत्यार्थ प्रकाह्स के सप्तम सम्मुलास में प्रश्नोत्तर के रूप में इस विषय पर प्रकाश डालते हुए कहते हैं.

प्रश्न- वेदों में जो अनेक देवता लिखे हैं, उसका क्या अभिप्राय हैं?

उत्तर- देवता दिव्या गुणों से युक्त होने के कारण कहाते हैं, जैसे की पृथ्वी परन्तु इसको कहीं ईश्वर वा उपासनीय नहीं माना हैं.

ऋग्वेद भाष्य मंत्र १.१६४.३९ में यहीं भाव इस प्रकार दिया हैं- उस परमात्मा देव में सब देव अर्थात दिव्य गुण वाले सुर्यादी पद्यार्थ निवास करते हैं, वेदों का स्वाध्याय करके उसी परमात्मा का ज्ञान प्राप्त करना चाहिए. जो लोग उसको न जानते, न मानते और उसका ध्यान नहीं करते , वे नास्तिक मंदगति, सदा दुःख सागर में डूबे ही रहते हैं.

ऋग्वेद ६.४५.१६ में भी अत्यंत स्पष्ट शब्दों में कहाँ गया हैं की हे उपासक, जो एक ही हैं, उस परम ऐश्वर्या शाली प्रभु की ही स्तुति उपासना करो.

ऋग्वेद १०.१२१.१-९ ईश्वर को हिरण्यगर्भ और प्रजापति आदि नामों से पुकारते हुए कहाँ गया हैं की सुखस्वरूप और सुख देने वाले उसी प्रजापति परमात्मा की ही समर्पण भाव से भक्ति करनी चाहिए.

स्वामी दयानंद जी मूर्ति पूजा के घोर विरोधी थे. मूर्ति पूजा के विरुद्ध उनका मंतव्य वेदों में मूर्ति पूजा के विरुद्ध आदेश होने के कारण बना. सत्यार्थ प्रकाश के एकादश समुल्लास में उन्होंने मूर्ति पूजा के विषय में लिखा की “वेदों में पाषाण आदि मूर्ति पूजा और परमेश्वर के आवाहन-विसर्जन करने का एक अक्षर भी नहीं हैं. ” एक स्थल पर स्वामी जी ने मूर्ति पूजा की १६ हानियाँ भी गिनाई हैं.स्वामी जी की मूर्तिपूजा के विरोध में प्रबल युक्ति यह हैं की परमात्मा निराकार हैं, उसका कोई शरीर नहीं हैं, शरीर रहित निराकार परमात्मा की भला कैसे कोई मूर्ति हो सकती हैं? इसलिए मूर्ति को ईश्वर मानकर उसकी पूजा करना नितांत अज्ञानता की बात हैं.

यजुर्वेद ३२.३ – “न तस्य प्रतिमा अस्ति “अर्थात उस परमात्मा की कोई प्रतिमा नहीं हैं का प्रमाण मूर्ति पूजा के विरुद्ध आदेश हैं.

वैदिक काल में निराकार ईश्वर की पूजा होती थी जिसे कालांतर में मूर्ति पूजा का स्वरुप दे दिया गया.

श्री रामचंद्र जी महाराज और श्री कृष्ण जी महाराज जो उत्तम गुण संपन्न आर्य पुरुष थे उन्हें परमात्मा का अवतार बनाकर उनकी मूर्तियाँ बना ली गयी.

ईश्वर जो अविभाजित हैं उनके तीन अंश कर ब्रह्मा, विष्णु और महेश पृथक पृथक कर दिए गए. यह कल्पना भी वेद विरुद्ध हैं.उनकी पृथक पृथक पत्नियों की भी कल्पना कर दी गयी. आगे सूर्य, गणेश, हनुमान, भैरव, काली. चंडी आदि की भी कल्पना कर उनकी मूर्तियाँ बना दी गयी जो की वेद विरुद्ध थी.स्वामी दयानंद ने अवतारवाद को भी वेद विरुद्ध मान कर उनका खंडन किया हैं.

यजुर्वेद ४०.८ मन्त्र में परमात्मा का वर्णन इस प्रकार किया गया हैं

“वह सर्वत्र व्यापक हैं, वह सब प्रकार से पवित्र हैं, वह कभी शरीर धारण नहीं करता, इसलिए वह अव्रण हैंअर्थात उनमें फोड़े-फुंसी और घाव आदि नहीं हो सकते, वह शरीर न होने से नस नाड़ी के बंधन से भी रहित हैं, वह शुद्ध अर्थात रजोगुण आदि से पृथल हैं, पाप उसे कभी बींध नहीं सकता अर्थात किसी प्रकार के पाप उसे कभी छु भी नहीं सकता, वह कवि अर्थात सब पदार्थों का गहरा क्रांतदर्शी ज्ञान रखने वाला हैं, वह मनीषी अर्थात अत्यंत मेधावी हैं अथवा जीवों के मानों की बातों को भी जानने वाला हैं, वह परिभू अर्थात पापियों का पराभव करने वाला हैं, स्वयंभू हैं अर्थात स्वयंसिद्ध हैं. उसका कोई कारण नहीं हैं , वह अनादिकाल से कल्प कल्पान्तारों में सृष्टि के पदार्थ की यथावत रचना करता आ रहा हैं” यजुर्वेद के इस मंत्र में परमात्मा का कोई भौतिक शारीर होने की बात का इतने प्रबल शब्दों में निषेध कर दिया गया हैं की इसे पढने के बाद ईश्वर को मानव रूप में अवतार लेना केवल दुराग्रह मात्र हैं.

इस प्रकार वेदों की साक्षी से यह प्रमाणित हो जाता हैं की ईश्वर एक हैं,निराकार हैं,अजन्मा हैं,नित्य हैं, अवतार नहीं लेता.

अब भी पाठक गन अगर इसके विपरीत ईश्वर का होना मानते हैं तो वे वेद रुपी पावन ज्ञान के दर्शन होने पर भी अज्ञान में ही रहना चाहते हैं.

 

 

 

 

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
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Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

here's Agniveers foolish article trying to prove the Vedas are more monotheist than Islam.What a joke its like cutting the leaf off  a dangerous weed but then keeping the root alive ( monotheism) and worse giving it a vedic stamp of approval..

Islam- The Religion of Tauheed (Monotheism)?

February 17, 2011 By Satyagni Agni 454 Comments

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Tauheed means “Oneness of God” in Arabic, and as seen, is constituted by two terms- “Oneness” and “God”. It is claimed to be one of the five pillars of Islam. What is so special in the “Tauheed” of Islam which makes it unique of its kind? Does the specialty lie with “Oneness” or with “God”? Lets work out which one of these two carry more gravity and why! “Oneness” in itself carries no weight simply because there are many entities which are One. For everyone, mother is one and father is also one. For the believers of Christianity and Islam, Satan is also one! But mere oneness of Satan or anyone else does not make him worthy of being worshipped. So it is clear that the beauty of Tauheed lies somewhere in God itself. For every theist (at least believers of Vedas, Bible, and Islam), One supreme entity, which is- existent, conscious, blissful, omnipotent, just, merciful, unborn, beyond the physical boundaries, omnipresent, unchanging, without beginning, unmatched, maintainer of all, lord of all, all knowing, imperishable, fearless, ageless, pure, and creator of all- is considered as God. Although God/Allah, as described in Bible/Quran, shows many human like traits such as- having two hands, sitting on throne, talking with angels etc and thus seems a physical entity bounded within the boundaries, but we leave it to the scholars of Christianity/Islam to ponder over such issues and make the interpretations of Bible/Quran more philosophically acceptable. However common belief of a layman of God belonging to both the religions is basically what we have written above.

If one thinks logically, the possessor of the properties in bold has to be One, as it can’t be multiple for obvious reasons. Two entities are said to be different if their properties differ with each other. A perfect, conscious, omnipresent, omnipotent, unmatched entity can be only one. If someone argues that two such Gods can co exist then this will be a paradox since the property of both should be “unmatched”, which is violated if the two identical entities exist. From this, we can conclude that “Oneness” is nothing but a subset of “God” and thus we need to understand more about God in order to clarify “Tauheed” further. Any believer of such God must have few things in his/her mind that since God alone is the source of all bliss and all the living beings have direct relationship with Him, He alone is sufficient to be believed in for achieving bliss. In other words, God alone is sufficient for all.

After this brief introduction to Tauheed/Oneness of God/Ekeshvarvaad, we would like to put Islam and Vedas on the test of Tauheed and try to reason out that if both Vedas and Islam believe in One God, where does the difference lie. Islam is claimed to be the only religion on the face of the earth which is purely monotheistic by most of its followers. The reason of this ignorance is obvious. Quran, which is supposed to be the perfect and final revelation of Allah, sent for whole mankind, does not contain any unambiguous information about the religions, beliefs and philosophies of the people living outside the boundaries of Arab and Israel. However people like Maulana Abdullah Tariq (considered one of the most eminent scholars of Islam in the Indian sub continent, and a close ally of Zakir Naik) have different view. In one of the debates with Arya Samaj in Bulandshahar (Uttar Pradesh), Maulana Tariq acknowledged that Vedas were the first revelations given by Allah to mankind. Thus in Maulana’s opinion, Vedas are the source of “Tauheed” as they taught the mankind for the first time that Allah/Eeshvar is One. Similarly, Maulana Abdul Haq (whose work is copied word by word by Zakir Naik, to prove Muhammad in world scriptures), shares the same opinion that Vedas were the first divine revelations sent by Allah to the mankind.

We shall now analyze Islam and Vedas and try to ascertain Tauheed in them.

Tauheed in Islam

Any Muslim, when asked about Oneness of God, proudly recites Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112 of Quran, which is given below

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4. And there is none like unto Him.

These beautiful verses really echo the message of Vedas regarding One Eeshvar/Allah. For example this Mantra

स पर्यगात् शुक्रं अकायं अव्रणम् असनाविरं शुद्धमपापविद्धम. कविर्मनीषी परिभूः स्वयंभूः याथातथ्यतो अर्थान् व्यदधात शाश्वतीभ्यः समाभ्यः. [यजुर्वेद ४०/८]

Meaning- That Supreme Being is omnipresent, All-powerful, He is never embodied, is never born, is never liable to division and is free from nervous or arterial systems, never commits a sin, is never subject to pain, grief and ignorance and the like, Pure, Perfect, Omniscient, Inward Controller of all, Ruler of All, Eternal and Self-existent. He has from all eternity been teaching uncreated immortal human souls, the true knowledge of things through the revelation of the Veda – His eternal knowledge. [Words in bold in this Mantra depict the entire Surah Ikhlas]

However there are innumerable verses in Quran which contradict the message of Tauheed of Surah Ikhlas. These verses when analyzed rationally would confuse every sensible person that whether it is “Tauheed” or rather “Shirk”, which is the pillar of Islam! Have a look

1. Allah offers prayers and greetings of Salam to Muhammad!

Allah sends His Salah (prayers) on prophet (Muhammad) and also His angels do so. O believers! Send your Salah on him and greet him with Taslim. [Quran 33:56]

Comments-

a. God, angels, and humans are on one side and Muhammad is on the other! What does this verse show, who is greater, Muhammad or Allah? Of course Muhammad!

b. One can try to deny the “Muhammad worship by Allah” by saying that Salah in the verse means “blessings” or “mercy”! But if that be the case, Allah could have not asked angels and humans to send Salah on Muhammad because humans have no authority to send blessings or mercy on prophet directly! If Salah means offering Dua for Muhammad, then whom will Allah ask for Dua to bless Muhammad? Is there someone greater than Allah?

c. The most recognized Tafsir of Sunni tradition, Tafsir e Ibn Kathir makes it clear what the Salah means. In the description of the same verse [33:56], he writes-

“Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Talhah said that the Messenger of Allah came one day looking happy. They said, “O Messenger of Allah, we see that you look happy.” He said, The angel came to me and told me, “O Muhammad, would it not please you if your Lord, may He be glorified, says: `No member of your Ummah sends Salah upon you but I send Salah upon him tenfold, and no member of your Ummah sends greetings of Salam upon you but I send greetings of Salam upon him tenfold.”’ I said, “Of course.” This was also recorded by An-Nasa’i.”

So it is clear that Allah sends Salah and greetings of Salam to a human!

2. Muhammad is Noor (sacred light) and Allah is also Noor! [Quran 5:15/17, 24:35]

Comment-

Same attributes for both Allah and Muhammad, where is the Tauheed?

3. Faith in Muhammad = Love for Allah. Allah forgives those who follow Muhammad!

Say: “If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [Quran 3:31]

Comment-

Muslim friends always criticize Hindus and Christians for their beliefs in Gurus or Jesus but what does this verse show? Muhammad is nothing but an agent between Allah and his followers. What if one doesn’t want any agent between him and Allah?

4. Allah says: Realize that My Prophetic Messenger (Muhammad) himself is with you!

And know that among you is Allah’s Messenger… [Quran 49:7]

Comments-

a. Why should not we realize that Allah is with us every time instead of Muhammad? What if One wants to realize Allah and Allah alone? How is a Vedic follower at fault if he realizes Eshwar/Allah without involving any agent in between, because of the omnipresence of Eshwar/Allah as per the Vedas?

b. Arguments about this verse to be limited for Muhammad’s lifetime bite the dust because then Quran cannot be the final and perfect book as most of its verses are expired and of no relevance today!

5. Allah describes Muhammad with His Own Attributes of Rauf (Most Kind) and Rahim (Merciful)!

Now hath come unto you a Messenger from amongst yourselves: it grieves him that ye should perish: ardently anxious is he over you: to the Believers is he most kind and merciful. [Quran 9:128]

Comments-

a. Sharing attributes with Allah is nothing but Shirk.

b. Does Muhammad have capability to be merciful? If so, why Muslims refute the claims of Christians that Jesus will forgive sins of his followers on behalf of God?

c. What if one does good deeds throughout his life but does not follow Muhammad? Will he be on the mercy of merciful Muhammad to get a ticket to heaven? Seems like Muhammad has keys to Jannat.

6. Allah does not punish people if he (Muhammad) is in their midst!

But Allah was not going to send them a penalty whilst thou wast amongst them; nor was He going to send it whilst they could ask for pardon. [Quran 8:33]

Comments-

a. Is this verse relevant today? If no, Quran is again proven to be irrelevant in the contemporary world. If yes, how can Muhammad be in midst of today’s Muslims?

b. Isn’t Allah doing injustice by not punishing people who deserve it?

c. It seems that there are two centers of power; neither of them can intervene with the matters of others! This is Tauheed, One Allah but two authorities.

7. Allegiance to Muhammad is allegiance to Allah!

Verily those who plight their fealty to thee do no less than plight their fealty to Allah…. [Quran 48:10]

Comment-

Is there anything still left to prove that Muhammad is yet another God of Islam? How does it matter whether you call anyone X or Y or Muhammad if he is equally powerful as Allah, at least in some matters? The only claim Muslims have is that Muhammad is not Allah! Yes, of course, he is not! But he does not need to be the one, he is already in the state of supreme authority in many cases and shares attributes with Allah and in some cases even surpasses Allah in authority L as mentioned above.

8. Allah asks all the Prophets to believe in Muhammad!

Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying: “I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you a messenger, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help.” Allah said: “Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?” They said: “We agree.” He said: “Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.” [Quran 3:81]

Comments-

a. One wonders about the time and place of this discussion as to when and where this conversation took place? Is this the time of prophecy of Muhammad? If so, all the previous prophets have already lived their lives and thus can’t do anything in this matter!

b. If this verse is of the time of any previous prophet, why Allah has called “prophets”? Were there multiple prophets on the earth at the same time?

c. Or was this meeting held in heavens before any prophet came to the earth? Why was not Muhammad present in the meeting?

d. If this meeting was held during the lifetime of Muhammad but in heavens, what was the purpose of this verse that it was revealed when it has nothing to do with common man?

e. Or was the purpose of this verse to send people the message that even prophets bow to Muhammad and thus you should automatically submit to him?

f. When every prophet believed in Allah, what was left in their belief that they had to believe in Muhammad additionally? Is not Muhammad a well proven associate of Allah after all this?

9. Muhammad- The final judge and supreme authority!

But no, by the Lord, they can have no [real] Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction. [Quran 4:65]

Comment-

So message is clear! I can’t have faith if I make Allah as my judge! Simply because it is Muhammad who is the ultimate judge, not Allah. Its time for sensible Muslims to ask themselves, who knows the best, is it Allah or Muhammad?

10. Allah purified Muhammad’s family!

…And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless. [Quran 33:33]

Comment-

Billions of families died waiting Allah’s wish to make them pure and spotless, but they failed to grab the attention of Allah. After all they did not belong to Muhammad’s family. Anyway, Allah is Rab ul Aalimin (Lord of the world) and not just Rab ul Muhammad, so keep faith in Him without questioning!

11. Love Allah and His Beloved Prophet more than anything else!

Say: If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline: or the dwellings in which ye delight – are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious. [Quran 9:24]

Faith is incomplete without Muhammad!

Bukhari Vol 1.13: Narrated Abu Huraira: “Allah’s Apostle said, “By Him in Whose Hands my life is, none of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father and his children.”

Comments-

I love my mother who loves and cares me unconditionally, more than Muhammad who will love me only when I submit to him. Am I wrong in it? Why to love anyone selfish more than my own mother?

12. Muhammad is closer to the believers than their own selves!

The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers. Blood-relations among each other have closer personal ties, in the Decree of Allah…. [Quran 33:6]

Comment-

How? Is he supernatural being like Allah? Have not seen greater mockery of Tauheed than this!

13. Whatever he (Muhammad) gives you, take it!

…So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment. [Quran 59:7]

Comment-

It means one has to believe Muhammad to be perfect like Allah and believe him blindly. We refuse to do so, we don’t believe any human to be perfect like God. And we are ready to face any hell for believing in actual Tauheed.

14. Muhammad broke the moon!

The Hour [of Judgment] is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder. [Quran 54:1]

Comment-

a. Many argue that this miracle was performed by Allah and not by Muhammad. My question is if this was an act of Allah, it would have never be a miracle because making of whole universe and its sustenance are infinite times bigger miracles of the power of almighty God than this poor show of breaking moon.

b. Readers can read in any Tafsir that how Muhammad showed his middle finger to moon and it got broken into pieces!

c. God cannot change His own laws because if He does that, He can’t be termed as perfect and unchangeable. Thus breaking of moon is a false story to glorify Muhammad or in other words to make him God.

15. Allah appointed Muhammad as an intercessor to appeal for people’s forgiveness!

We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah’s forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful. [Quran 4:64]

O Prophet! When believing women come to thee to take the oath of fealty to thee…,- then do thou receive their fealty, and pray to Allah for the forgiveness [of their sins]: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [Quran 60:12]

None shall have the power of intercession, but such a one as has received permission [or promise] from [Allah] Most Gracious. [Quran 19:87]

On that Day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has been granted by [Allah] Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to Him. [Quran 20:109]

Comments-

Again it is proven that Muhammad holds the keys to heaven and hell! He will save whom he wills and throw in hell those whom he is not pleased! Another example of Islamic Tauheed!

16. Those who think Allah and messengers to be different will be thrown in hell!

Those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers, and wish to make distinction between Allah and His messengers, saying: “We believe in some but reject others”: And wish to adopt a way in between, They are in truth disbelievers; and we have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment. [Quran 4:150,151]

17. Command to follow “Allah and His messenger” appears no less than 72 times in Quran!

Comments-

a. Distinction has already been made by Allah as He gave two different names to Allah and messengers!

b. One thing that would perplex every rational mind – Do Allah and Muhammad teach different things which are complementary to each other? If yes, Allah is incomplete. If no, why not “believing in Allah” itself contains “believing in messengers” automatically? Did messengers teach extra than what they were sent with? Is not Allah a superset of all good teachings, believing in whom should be sufficient?

c. It is proven that Muhammad is not any slave or a subset of Allah or its teachings but he is an associate with Allah in most of His attributes.

18. Muhammad has got 99 names and so as Allah!

Comment-

Do I need to say anything on it? Muhammad is in competition with Allah in even number of names or attributes!

19. Allah and Muhammad share many common attributes such as Awwal, Aakhir, Haqq, Rahim, Kamil etc which mean the first, the last, truth, merciful, perfect respectively!

Comment-

How can both Allah and Muhammad be first, the last, truth and perfect at the same time? This is the Shirk of highest degree to say Muhammad first, last, truth and perfect. If our Muslim friends still see other religions to be polytheistic and theirs to be monotheistic, they cannot be called anything except hypocrites!

By now every logical mind would have understood the fact that Allah, as mentioned in Quran, is incomplete without Muhammad. Belief in Allah alone is not going to help anyone achieve bliss unless he/she believes in Muhammad. Not only that, one has to send his/her Salah on Muhammad just like Allah and His angels do. Isn’t it a mockery of Allah in the name of Tauheed? Anyone who has slightest amount of faith in One God should seriously think about these absurdities in the name of Oneness of Allah. Does the person appeared in any of the above verses look like a human?

And probably due to such teachings of Islam, many Muslims have written below lines with pride

“Meraj ki ratiyan haq ne kaha tu aur nahi main aur nahi

Hai meem ka parda kya parda tu aur nahi main aur nahi”

Meaning- In the night of Meraj (when Muhammad went to meet Allah in the heaven), the truth told the prophet- “you and me are not distinct”, the curtain of Meem is nothing, “you and me are not distinct”!

Also

“Allah ke palle mein vahdat ke sivaa kya hai?

Jo kuchh hamein lena hai le lenge Muhammad se”

Meaning- What does Allah possess except oneness? We will take from Muhammad whatever we like!

Such teachings and followers can never claim to believe in Tauheed (oneness of God).

Apart from the Verbatims from Quran, we shall discuss some common points in the present context. There are many questions/disagreements which we come across on this issue quite often. Here we provide the answers to those in the form of conversation b/w “M” and “A” representing Islam and Vedic view respectively

M: Whatever you have written is all rubbish. We Muslims never worship Muhammad (PBUH). How can you say that Muhammad is equivalent to God in Islam?

A: It has been proven above that not only Muslims but even Allah sends Salah on Muhammad like poor angels and humans. So, this not only proves Muhammad worthy to be worshipped by humans but by Allah too! Moreover, it seems to be a fundamental problem with most of our Muslim friends that they get stuck to the terms without knowing the meanings of those. How does it matter if your relation with Muhammad is not as that of worshipper and worshipped when your worship is useless without reciting his name? You claim to worship Allah alone! Then why Muhammad comes in between always? Can any of your Salah be accepted by Allah if you don’t recite “Muhammad ur Rasool Allah” along with “La illah illallah”? If not, you have some relation “X” with Muhammad which is greater than your relation of worshipping with Allah, because without “X”, your worship of Allah is invalid. Thus if worshipping Muhammad is a Shirk, “Xing” is a greater Shirk because “X” has more importance than “worshipping” for a Muslim and since “X” is related with a human (Muhammad), doing it is a bigger sin than Shirk.

M: No, we don’t worship Muhammad (PBUH). Allah has ordered us to recite his name and we have to obey His commands. So we are obeying Allah, it has nothing to do with the worship of Muhammad (PBUH).

A: Explained above. How do you know that Allah ordered you to do so?

M: Through Muhammad in Quran.

A: So you got to know from Muhammad himself that you have to remember Muhammad in prayers!

M: Yes because Muhammad (PBUH) was final messenger of Allah.

A: What proofs do you have that Quran is the word of God and Muhammad is the messenger?

M: Allah revealed it on Prophet Muhammad 1400 years ago. It has not changed till date and is scientifically proven book. This is the proof that Quran is the word of God.

A: Why do you believe in those words blindly? How do you know that Muhammad did not lie? How do you know that Muhammad was actual prophet and not someone cheating and lying to the ignorant Arabs? What if I stand up today and say that I am a messenger of God? What logic you will have against my claim other than your own blind belief in which you are already engaged in? Regarding Quran, it is as illogical to claim Quran to be from God on the bases of unchanged verses and science as if I claim that all the articles on Satyagni are unchanged till date and the books of optics, classical mechanics etc are all scientifically proven books and thus all science books and Satyagni articles are from Allah!

M: Quran had science 1400 years ago. Who could have written it 1400 years ago other than Allah if it is full of the concepts of modern science?

A: OK. What if I prove some verses of Quran to be unscientific?

M: You can not do that!

A: Please tell me about the science behind breaking of moon, flying donkey of Muhammad, stones talking with Moses, Jesus born without father, she camel born from stone, separation of sea water to give path to Muhammad, etc.

M: Science cannot explain these because they are miracles and only Allah can perform them. Allah is above science. And since Quran is word of God, it can overrule science.

A: You have taken U turn now! You claimed science to be the basis of truthfulness and divinity of Quran previously and when Quran was proven unscientific, you claim that Allah is above science! Could you understand the fallacy in your logic? What you had to prove here (divinity of Quran) was already in your assumption (that Allah sent Quran)! Thus Quran is not the word of God logically.

M: Allah Himself reveals in Quran that Muhammad (PBUH) is His final messenger. This is the biggest proof.

A: When it is proven that Quran is not the word of God, how can it be from Allah?

M: We have full faith in Muhammad (PBUH) and thus we trust his words.

A: Why you don’t have trust in me? When you can blindly believe anyone, why not in me?

M: Don’t have the answer.

A: OK. Please tell me, what do you mean by worship?

M: Remembering God and thanking him for His support and love.

A: Don’t you think then that inclusion of Muhammad in prayers is a kind of human worship?

M: No because we don’t consider Muhammad to be God, but the final messenger of God. And look, Muhammad was so kind that he preferred to call himself as slave of Allah, this alone proves that he did not want himself to be worshipped.

A: Associating self with someone bigger brings fame and if you show some humbleness, it catalyzes the effect. This is what Muhammad did. This is what Mumtaz Qadri (killer of Punjab governor in Pakistan) did! He is now famous as Aashiq e Rasool (lover of Muhammad or slave of Muhammad) and now crores of slaves are holding this slave of Muhammad on their shoulders in Pakistan shouting the slogans- “Aashiq e Rasool pe jaan bhi kurbaan hai”, meaning we can die for the slave of Muhammad (Qadri). So calling yourself slave brings you fame many times! And Muhammad was well aware of it.

M: Remembrance of Muhammad in prayers does not mean worship, how many times I have to tell you this?

A: So will it be fine if I add my parents’ names after Allah and Muhammad in Kalma? As I can remember a slave of Allah, the messenger, I can also remember my parents who acted as cause for my existence and thus of course recitation of the very Kalma! And why not include the name of first prophet also?

M: No you can’t, it is not mentioned in Islam.

A: So why are you arguing? You should accept that “Tauheed” or “Oneness of God” is considered good by you not because it is logical but because your book/self proclaimed prophet says so. Same applies with the Kaba idol you worship! You oppose idol worship not because you know the short comings of it, but because your book opposes it! And since Islam allows you to worship idol and humans in some different forms and names (bowing to Kaba as direction of prayers and worshipping Muhammad by reciting “Muhammad is last messenger”) you are as idol/human worshippers as any polytheist whom you consider worst of creatures as per Quran 98:6.

A: Can I ask, is Allah complete and self sufficient?

M: Yes.

A: I already believe in One God, am I a Muslim?

M: No because you don’t believe in Muhammad.

A: Is believing in Muhammad as important as believing in Allah that the punishment for disbelief in both is same, the eternal hell?

M: Yes.

A: How can then Allah be self sufficient to provide me bliss, and how is he above all? Is it not Shirk to give anyone equal importance in belief as in Allah?

M: You have to obey what He has said in Quran.

A: I don’t have faith in Muhammad and thus Quran, what can I do?

M: Get your faith in him otherwise hell.

A: Should I believe blindly in him?

M:

Case (i) M leaves the blind belief and restarts the journey to find the truth (if M is logical and humanitarian)

Case (ii) No answer (if M is not much versed with Hadith and verses of Jihad)

Case (iii) abuses and threats of hell to “A”as a response to the act of this blasphemy (if M is a Jihadi follower of the terrorists like Zakir Naik).

So we conclude that illogical faiths start at blind belief and terminate at silence or violence. Remembering Muhammad in prayers, believing in all those verses which Sharik (involve) Muhammad with Laasharik (with whom no one should be involved) Allah are nothing but the acts of worshipping Muhammad and thus Shirk.

Now we present few examples of Tauheed (Oneness of God) from Vedas and ask all the Muslim and non Muslim friends to judge themselves which kind of “Oneness” they want.

Tauheed in Vedas

1. आयुर्यज्ञेन कल्पतां प्राणो यज्ञेन कल्पतां चक्षुर्यज्ञेन कल्पतां श्रोत्रं यज्ञेन कल्पतां वाक् यज्ञेन कल्पतां    मनो यज्ञेन कल्पतां आत्मा यज्ञेन कल्पतां ब्रह्मा यज्ञेन कल्पतां ज्योतिः यज्ञेन कल्पतां स्वर यज्ञेन कल्पतां पृष्ठं यज्ञेन कल्पतां यज्ञो यज्ञेन कल्पतां…. प्रजापते प्रजा अभूम वेट स्वाहा. [यजुर्वेद १८/२९]

O human! Offer to Eeshvar your life, breaths, eyes, ears, tongue, mind, soul, knowledge, intellect, happiness, rewards of good deeds, even the feel of offering, all your potential, wealth, and all of what you possess, by following his command of performing Yajna (acts of benefitting others and not become selfish) saying “Idam na mam” which means “not for me but for others” because whatever you possess, it is all because of Eeshvar (Yajurved 18/29).

2. हिरण्यगर्भः समवर्तताग्रे भूतस्य जातः पतिरेक आसीत्

स दाधार पृथ्वीम् द्यामुतेमां कस्मै देवाय हविषा विधेम. [यजुर्वेद १३/४]

“Eeshvar, O men existed in the beginning of the Creation. He is the Creator, Support and Sustainer of the suns and other luminous worlds, He was the Lord of the past Creation. He is the Lord of the present. He will be the Lord of the unborn universe. He created the whole world, and he sustains it. He is Eternal Bliss. May we all worship and adore Him (Yajurved 13/4).

3. य आत्मदा बलदा यस्य विश्व उपासते प्रशिषम् यस्य देवाः

यस्य छाया अमृतं यस्य मृत्यु कस्मै देवाय हविषा विधेम. [यजुर्वेद २५/१३]

Eeshvar alone provides us the knowledge of self and the potential to gain bliss. He is worshipped by all the noble people. Observing whose laws and commands is the cause of all happiness and ultimate bliss and violating whose laws is the cause of bondage (the cycle of birth and death). May we all worship and adore Him (Yajurved 25/13).

4. स नो बन्धुर्जनिता स विधाता धामानि वेद भुवनानि विश्वा

यत्र देवा अमृतामानशानास्तृतीये धामान्नध्यैरयन्त. [यजुर्वेद ३२/१०]

Eeshvar is a true friend who never leaves us in any situation, He is our procreator and fulfils all of our aspirations, and thus can be called as ultimate mother and father, He knows all the worlds, all the names, localities and created objects of this universe, it is in Him where the person of wisdom obtaining salvation move freely after having been free from worldly pleasures and pains. He is our mother, father, teacher, ruler and administrator of justice. We with all devotion offer our worship to Him (Yajurved 32/10).

5. यो भूतं च भव्यं च सर्वं यश्चाधितिष्ठति. स्वर्यस्य च केवलं तस्मै ज्येष्ठाय ब्रह्मणे नमः.

[अथर्ववेद १०/८/१]

We all pray to Eeshvar, Who is above the bondage of time, i.e. remains unchanged with respect to time, His knowledge, laws, nature etc remain undisturbed by time, Who creates, maintains and destroys the universe with His eternal knowledge and power. May we all love Him and follow His path (Atharved 10/8/1).

6. ईशा वास्यमिदं सर्वं यत्किंच जगत्यान्जगत. [यजुर्वेद ४०/१]

O Human! The entire world – static as well as dynamic – is pervaded by Ishwar – the Supreme Lord (Yajurved 40/1).

7. अहम्भुवं वसुनः पूर्व्यस्पतिरहहम् धनानि सं ज्यामि शश्वतः.

मां हवन्ते पितरं न जन्तवो अहम् दाशुषे वि भजामि भोजनम्. [ऋग्वेद १०/४८/१]

I, O men, lived before the whole universe came into being, I am Lord of all, I am the eternal cause of the whole creation. I am the source and giver of all wealth. Let all men look up to me alone as children do to their parents. I have appointed different foods and drinks for all creatures to give them sustenance so that they may live in happiness (Rigved 10/48/1).

8. अहमिन्द्रो न परा जिग्य इद्धनं न मृत्यवे अवस्तथे कदा चन

सोममिन्मा सुन्वन्तो याचता वसु न मे पूरवः सख्ये रिषाथन. [ऋग्वेद १०/४८/५]

I am God Almighty, I am the Light of the world like the sun. Neither defeat, nor death, can ever approach me. I am the controller of the universe, know me alone as the Creator of all. Strive ye diligently for the acquisition of power and wealth such (as true knowledge). Ask ye of me. May ye never lose my friendship (Rigved 10/48/5).

9. अहम् दाम् गृणते पूर्व्यं वस्वहम् ब्रह्म कृणवं मह्यं वर्धनं.

अहम् भुवं यजमानस्य चोदिता अयज्वनः साक्षि विश्वस्मिन्भरे. [ऋग्वेद १०/४९/१]

I give true knowledge, which is real wealth, unto men who are truthful. I am the revealer of Vedas which declare my true nature. It is through the Vedas that I advance the knowledge of all. I am the prompter of the good and true. I reward those who devote themselves to the good of humanity. I am the cause, I am the support of all that exists in this universe (Rigved 10/49/1).

In the end, we would appeal to all our brothers and sisters in humanity- Hindu or Muslim, Christian or Jew, to think about the need and form of One God/Eeshvar/Allah. Its upto you, whom you should believe in, God/Bhagvan/Allah associated by any Jesus/Guru/Muhammad or a complete self sufficient Eeshvar, described in Vedas, without any agent b/w Him and you.

Choice is yours!

He is neither two nor three nor four…. He is One without a second. In Him alone, whole universe resides. He pervades all. He has been creating, sustaining, and destroying the universe from beginningless time and will continue to do so till eternity on His own without the help of anyone! [Atharva- 13/4/16-21]

O Eeshvar! Guide me from darkness of ignorance to the light of bliss, from the grief of bondage to happiness of salvation!

[Arjun]

dr arya, what evidence ? you taken a few quotes out of context and now you are making some big claim that the vedas are monotheist ? Do you seriously want us to take you serious or do you want us to to continue to laugh at you as you desperately try to be Sherlock Holmes but still fail with your so called 'evidence' No wonder the Arya Samaj cult is on its last legs and good riddance along with your 'one'  'he' god

---

From: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011, 10:05
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

Arjun

 

God is one and I had provided you evidences from the vedas to prove my stand. all those who are not in favour with my opinion are also rejecting vedas claim of only one God.I challenge you to provide me evidences from supreme texts the Vedas regarding polytheism.

 

Dr Vivek Arya

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Arjun]

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
To: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011, 5:42

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

[Arjun]

polythiesm is much more superior than any monotheism..You notice the arya samajais always take quotes out of context to prove their ridiculous  monothism  .If you look at their quote of evidence..


"God is

neither the second, nor the third, nor yet the fourth. He is called
neither the fifth, nor the sixth, nor yet the seventh. He is neither
the eighth, nor the ninth, nor yet the tenth. He takes care of all
that breathes and all that does not breathes. He has got all this
conquering power, he is the one, one and the only one”

"

 look how many times 'H'e is mentioned so according to their logic of trying to prove that the vedas are promoting One god then this One God must also be a male because hes a He.lol the below article is by another fanatical Arya Samaji .This agniveer has even written an article trying to prove that the Vedas are more monotheistic than Islam itself lol What a moronic idiot of the worst kind..Their days are numbered as many hindus are seeing more pride in their many gods against this jealous God with a inferiority complex....

Embracing polytheist Hinduism

Wednesday, 05 October 2011 23:52

The difference of outlook between polytheism and monotheism boils down to being open and being closed. Because religions have a hold on people's imaginations and their sense of right and wrong, religious outlooks define societies. Modern Hindus, instead of being apologetic about the polytheism inherent in their tradition, should seek to embrace it

Since religiosity of one manner or another pervades all societies, there has always been an ongoing intellectual discourse between cultures in the form of religious debate. Since a culture’s religious views often shape its approach towards the world, these debates practically decide how the world works by shaping the course of human civilisation.

When religions interact, they compare notes. They discuss differences in approach to common issues — god, the afterlife, morality. They assess the value of each other’s philosophies, spiritual values, and cultural perspectives. Ideally, these debates should serve to enhance the quality of man’s understanding of his place in the universe. But often enough — and this has been seen historically — there is an element of aggression in such debates. One of the tools that proselytising religions of the Judaeo-Christian tradition use in order to justify converting people to their faiths is arguments that set out to ‘prove’ that one religion is superior to another.

Because religion has always been a very real presence in India, its native traditions — particularly Hinduism — have been the subject of similar debates for a long time. The Hindu way has been assessed by parties with conversion as an agenda and more often than not, such assessment has sought to undermine the validity of Hindu traditions. The debate is obviously most welcome, since Hinduism makes space for a lot of different conflicting philosophies within its folds, but it is also true that many elements of this discourse are not exactly fair.

I want to point out a certain asymmetry in this discourse.

One question that gets asked often is why Hindus worship so many gods. The question is a valid one and an obvious one as well. It deserves a proper answer too. But that is not the point being made here.

The point is the absence of the counter-question. Have you ever heard Hindus ask why Christians or Muslims worship only one god?

So deep and ingrained is the asymmetry in this discourse that the first time you look at it, the question looks downright funny. But it shouldn’t because this too is a perfectly valid question and deserves to be answered in all sincerity.

The monotheistic position is too often assumed to be the default standard against which all other traditions must be judged. Why must this be so?

This lack of response shows on many fronts. The Hindu is asked why he does not have a prophet or a messiah (why does he need one?). He is asked who will ‘save’ him (what’s there to be saved from?), why he worships images of stone (why shouldn’t he?). All these questions stem from the assumption that the monotheistic view of the world is a sort of universal reference point.

Given the lack of understanding even Hindus have of their own traditions, one finds them not questioning such questions. Instead, many seem eager to measure up to the standards that monotheism presents. This is perhaps why one keeps hearing woolly-headed agreement of the sort that responds to the question of polytheism with, “Oh no! God is ONE. Hindus also worship one god. Hindus are also monotheistic.” This apology might seem accurate when you take it at face value. But things reveal themselves to be trickier when you go deeper into the roots of monotheism as an ideology.

Technically, monotheism simply means the acknowledgment of one god. But what it means in the case of modern monotheistic religions is acknowledgment of one god only. This particular variety of exclusivist religiosity is utterly alien to the Hindu view, since Hinduism thrives upon the infinite variety inherent in the world and sees each speck as divine. Monotheism — at least the variety that guides religions like Christianity and Islam — is exclusivist. It prohibits the worship of the divine in any form other than the ‘official’ version. It is rooted in the idea of ‘only one’.

Once we get this distinction clear, it becomes clear that Hinduism does not worship ‘One God’. Instead, Hinduism worships the oneness of all gods and indeed, the oneness of everything in existence. Arguably, the only thing alien to Hinduism is exclusivist religiosity, since it goes against the grain of its pluralist approach to the divine.

The one-centric view of god turns religious discourse into an uncomfortable place. To quote George W Bush, you are either with us, or against us. Notions of good and evil turn the world into a black and white space. You are either in the camp of noble people who have been ‘saved’, or you are in the other camp — the one with devil-worshippers, heathens, kaafirs, and ‘lost’ souls”. In such an intellectual atmosphere, things turn binary very quickly.

The Western variety of atheism is a case in point. It seeks to replace the unforgiving religious value of one with an equally unforgiving value of zero. In order to counter the influence of the Abrahamic religions’ claim that god exists, these atheists take to asserting that there is no god — One versus Zero. This variety of atheism falls prey to the nature of the aforementioned intellectual atmosphere. The black and white nature of this discourse clouds out all options except one and zero, thereby making sure that the debate is fruitful for neither party.

At the end of the day, the difference of outlook between polytheism and monotheism boils down to being open and being closed. Because religions have a hold on people’s imaginations and their sense of right and wrong, religious outlooks define societies.

Modern Hindus, instead of being apologetic about the polytheism inherent in their tradition, should seek to embrace it.

Vijayendra Mohanty is a comic book writer, alleged Hindu chauvinist and co-creator of Ravanayan.

---

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
To: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011, 5:42

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

[ramans shriman]

namastey arya jan those who hv not gone near a 10,000 km circle of a vedic gurkul n when they are talking about holy vedas n arya jan are responding to them sincerly it looks stupid   holy maharhsi dayanad has given 48 yeras of vedic syllabus in pathan patthan vidhi in satyartha prakash n people need to go through that if they want to comment  on holy vedas at their indepenedent authority. therfore any body giving their personal comments on vedas or thsoe produced by macaulay scholars who studies holy vedas though lame languages the question that arays need to ask is , hv you ever gone in 10,000 km circle of a holy vedic gurkul ___  if not then simple ask him/her to keep shut   if some body has not seen a city or town and lived there enough then he/she has to ask some one who did. it is same about holy vedas   simple word meaning is not engouh in case of holy vedas. there are multiple meanings , multiple contaxts an mulitple applications. it is not possible for any one w/o doing a snagopnag chaturvedic study as per the syllabus of holy mahrihsi dayanad   to deduce the correct meaning  of ved mantras.  i refer to the holy rig ved mantra ....trini rajana ..........mandal 3 sukt 38 mantra 6  as explained by holy maharishi dyanad in samuulas six no maculay scholar of vedas can ever explain in this way even after 1000th birth . it is therfore imperative that aryas must stop any one who is trying to put his own garlic in holy vedic amrit.     therfore people have to     --- On Mon, 10/31/11, Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS? To: "vivek arya" <drviv...@yahoo.com>

[vivek arya]

Arjun

 

God is one and I had provided you evidences from the vedas to prove my stand. all those who are not in favour with my opinion are also rejecting vedas claim of only one God.I challenge you to provide me evidences from supreme texts the Vedas regarding polytheism.

 

Dr Vivek Arya

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vivek arya]

[Arjun]

this article is a great one promoting polythiesm..

[vivek arya]

arjun

 

 

i was thinking that you might be serious debator but you in reality do not want to accept truth inspite of giving evidences.

 

until now you had not provided me any evidence of polytheism from the supreme text the vedas.

 

using words like laugh/joke etc is like covering self ignorance in serious debates.

 

dr vivek arya 

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

dr arya, what evidence ? you taken a few quotes out of context and now you are making some big claim that the vedas are monotheist ? Do you seriously want us to take you serious or do you want us to to continue to laugh at you as you desperately try to be Sherlock Holmes but still fail with your so called 'evidence' No wonder the Arya Samaj cult is on its last legs and good riddance along with your 'one'  'he' god

[vivek arya]

arjun

 

speaking against missionary work of agniveer is like spitting towards sun.

 

today agniveer.com is the most visited, praised, polpular and informative website of hindus all across the world.

 

countless youths had learned and are learning the true message of the vedas from agniveer site.

 

those among hindus who practices castism, installs christian missionary mother teresa idols in their temples, supports homosexuality, considers inferior status of women as per shankracharya message, opposes suddhi movement, wastes resources in superstitions are too ignorant to analyse what agniveer.com had done for hinduism.

 

 

formost work of agniveer.com is to fight with intellect terrorism being spread by zakir naik like muslim radicals.

 

dr vivek arya

 

 

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

more agniveer nonsense lol  unleash the legend within....

[vivek arya]

ANIL JI

 

DO NOT MIX MONOTHEISM AND MONISM.

 

MONOTHEISM SPEAKS OF ONLY ONE GOD BUT NATURE AND SOUL ARE DIFFERENT ENTITIES.

 

VEDAS GIVES EVIDENCE FOR THAT ALSO WHILE MONISM MEANS ADWAITVAD SPEAKS OF EVERY THING IS GOD.

 

PLEASE REFER TO MY ARTICLE ON VEDAS AND ADVAITWAD

 

http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/adwait/

 

 

वेद और अद्वैतवाद

डॉ विवेक आर्य

स्वामी दयानंद जी महाराज ने सत्यार्थ प्रकाश के ११ वें समुल्लास में अद्वैतवाद विचारधारा पर अपना दृष्टीकोण स्पष्ट किया हैं. अद्वैतवाद विचारधारा की नीव गौड़पादाचार्य ने २१५ कारीकायों (श्लोकों) से की थी ,इनके शिष्य गोविन्दाचार्य हुए और उनके शिष्य दक्षिण भारत में जन्मे स्वामी शंकराचार्य हुए जिन्होंने इन कारीकायों का भाष्य रचा था. यही विचार अद्वैतवाद के नाम से प्रसिद्द हुआ था. स्वामी शंकराचार्य अत्यंत प्रखर बुद्धि के अद्वितीय विद्वान थे जिन्होंने भारत देश में फैल रहे नास्तिक बुद्ध और जैन मत को शास्त्रार्थ में परास्त कर वैदिक धर्म की रक्षा करी. उनके प्रचार से भारत में नास्तिक मत तो समाप्त हो गया पर मायावाद अर्थात अद्वैतवाद की स्थापना हो गयी.

अद्वैतमत क्या हैं?

स्वामी शंकराचार्य ब्रह्मा के दो रूप मानते हैं, एक अविद्या उपाधि सहित हैं, जो जीव कहलाता हैं और दूसरा सब प्रकार की उपाधियों से रहित शुद्ध ब्रह्मा हैं. अविद्या की अवस्था में ही उपास्य उपासक आदि सब व्यवहार हैं और जब जीव अविद्या से रहित होकर अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि अर्थात में ब्रह्मा हूँ, इस अवस्था को पहुँच जाता हैं तो जीव का जीवपन नष्ट हो जाता हैं.

माया का स्वरुप

अद्वैतमत के अनुसार माया के सम्बन्ध से ही ब्रह्मा जीव कहता हैं. यह मायारूप उपाधि अनादिकाल से ही ब्रह्मा को लगी हुई हैं और इस अविद्या के कारण ही जीव, अपने आपको ब्रह्मा से भिन्न समझता हैं. स्वामी शंकराचार्य के अनुसार माया को परमेश्वर की शक्ति, त्रिगुणात्मिका, अनादिरूपा, अविद्या का नाम दिया हैं.इसे अनिर्वचनीय (जो कहीं न जा सके) माना हैं.

जगत मिथ्या

अद्वैतमत के अनुसार जगत मिथ्या हैं. जिस प्रकार स्वपन जूठे होते हैं तथा अँधेरे में रस्सी को देखकर सांप का भ्रम होता हैं, उसी प्रकार इस भ्रान्ति, अविद्या, अज्ञान के कारण ही जीव, इस मिथ्या संसार को सत्य मान रहा हैं. वास्तव में न कोई संसार की उत्पत्ति , न प्रलय, न कोई साधक, न कोई मुमुक्षु (मुक्ति) चाहने वाला हैं, केवल ब्रह्मा ही सत्य हैं और कुछ नहीं.

अकर्ता तथा अभोक्ता

अद्वैतमत के अनुसार यह अंतरात्मा न कर्ता हैं, न भोक्ता हैं, न देखता हैं, न दिखाता हैं. यह निष्क्रिय हैं. सूर्य के प्रतिबिम्ब की भांति, जीवों की क्रियाएं, बुद्धि पर चिदाभास (चैतन्य प्रतिबिम्ब छाया – Reflection) से हो रही हैं.

द्वैतवाद के समर्थक वेद और उपनिषद्

शंकर स्वामी अपने शारीरिक भाष्य १/१/३ में ऋग्वेद आदि को अपौरुष्य और सूर्य की भांति स्वत: प्रमाण मन हैं. वेद संहिता को प्रमाण मानने के बावजूद शंकर स्वामी ने वेदों में से एक भी प्रमाण अद्वैतवाद की पुष्टि के लिए प्रस्तुत नहीं किया. जबकि वेदों में अनेक प्रमाण जीवात्मा और परमात्मा की दो भिन्न चेतन सताएँ घोषित करते हैं.जैसे

ऋग्वेद १/१६४/२० में आया हैं

द्वा सुपर्णा सयुजा सखाया समानं वृक्षं परिषस्वजाते I

तयोरन्य: पिप्पलं स्वाद्वत्यनश्ननन्यो अभिचाकशीति II

इस मन्त्र का संदेश हैं की दो चेतन ईश्वर और आत्मा अनादी प्रकृति रुपी वृक्ष के साथ सम्बंधित हैं. इसमें एक आत्मा अपने अपने कर्मों का फल भोग करती हैं जबकि दूसरी परमात्मा किसी भी प्रकार के फलों का भोग न करता हुआ उसको देखता हैं.

इसी मन्त्र का श्वेताश्वतर उपनिषद् ४/६ में स्वामी शंकर अर्थ करते हैं परमेश्वर नित्य शुद्ध बुद्ध स्वाभाव वाला सबको देखता हैं. यदि अद्वैतवाद की माने तो ईश्वर से भिन्न कोई और पथार्थ नहीं हैं तो फिर ईश्वर किसे देख रहे हैं.

ऋग्वेद १०/८२/७ और यजुर्वेद १७/३१ में भी आया हैं की हे जीवों तुम उस ब्रह्मा को नहीं जानते जिसने सारी प्रजा को उत्पन्न किया हैं. वह तुमसे भिन्न हैं और तुम्हारे अंदर भी हैं.

बृहद-अरण्यक उपनिषद् के अंतर्यामी प्रकरण में लिखा हैं जिस प्रकार परमात्मा सूर्य, चन्द्र, पृथ्वी आदि पदार्थों के भीतर व्यापक हैं और उनको नियम में रखता हैं, उसी प्रकार जीवात्मा के भीतर भी व्यापक हैं और इस जीवात्मा से पृथक भी हैं.

श्वेताश्वतर उपनिषद् ४/५ में प्रकृति के लिए अजा और परमात्मा और जीव के लिए दो बार अज: पद आया हैं. इसमें परमेश्वर, आत्मा और प्रकृति तीनों को अनादी बताया गया हैं.

कठो-उपनिषद १/३/१ में आया हैं की इस शरीर में छाया अर्थात अज्ञान से युक्त शरीर और आतप अर्थात प्रकाशमय परमात्मा हैं. इस मंत्र में दो भिन्न चेतन सत्ता का स्पष्ट प्रमाण हैं.

अद्वैतवाद समालोचना

जगत मिथ्या

शंकर स्वामी के दादा गुरु गौडपादाचर्या ने २/३२ (गौ .का.) में ब्रह्मा सत्य हैं और जगत मिथ्या हैं, यह सिद्धांत वेदादि शास्त्रों, प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण और युक्तियों के विरुद्ध स्थापित किया हैं.

यजुर्वेद ४०/८ में लिखा हैं की इस जगत में परमात्मा ने यथार्थ पथार्थों का निर्माण किया. जो यथार्थ पथार्थ हैं वह मिथ्या कभी हो नहीं सकता इसलिए जगत मिथ्या कैसे हुआ.

ऋग्वेद १०/१८०/३ में लिखा हैं की परमात्मा प्रलय के पश्चात पूर्ववत सृष्टि की रचना करते हैं . क्या परमात्मा मिथ्या प्रकृति की रचना करते हैं और क्या यह नियम अनादी कल से चलता आ रहा हैं?

यजुर्वेद ४०/९ में प्रकृति को असम्भूति अर्थात नित्य लिखा हैं फिर नित्य प्रकृति मिथ्या कैसे हो गयी?

ऋग्वेद १/४/१४ में लिखा हैं की परमात्मा ने अपने से भिन्न सब संसार को रचा.

छान्दोग्य उपनिषद् ६/४/४ में लिखा हैं की इस सारी सृष्टी का मूल सत्य हैं और सत्य पर ही सब आश्रित हैं.

वैशेषिक दर्शन ने ६ पदार्थों के और न्याय दर्शन ने १६ पदार्थों के तत्व ज्ञान से मुक्ति लिखी हैं. यदि यह जगत मिथ्या हैं तो इन पदार्थों के तत्व ज्ञान से मुक्ति मिलना निरर्थक सिद्ध होता हैं.

वेद और दर्शन ,उपनिषद् के प्रमाणों से स्पष्ट प्रमाणित होता हैं की जगत कार्य क्षेत्र हैं और इसी में जीव अपने कर्म फल प्राप्ति के लिए ही देह धारण करके भिन्न योनियों में इस विश्व में आकर फल का उपभोग करता हैं. जब जगत ही मिथ्या हैं तो जीना किसका और फल पाना किसका.इसलिए धर्म शास्त्रों के प्रमाण से यह सिद्ध होता हैं की जगत मिथ्या नहीं अपितु यथार्थ हैं.

माया की समीक्षा

अद्वैत मत के अनुसार जीव और ब्रह्मा की भिन्नता का कारण माया हैं जिसे अविद्या भी कहते हैं. जिस समय जीव से अविद्या दूर हो जाती हैं उस समय वह ब्रह्मा हो जाता हैं. हमारा प्रथम आक्षेप हैं की यदि अविद्या ब्रह्मा का स्वाभाविक गुण (Natural) हैं तब तो अविद्या का नाश नहीं हो सकता क्यूंकि स्वाभाविक गुण सदा ही अपने आश्रित द्रव्य के आधार पर स्थिर रहता हैं. यदि यह अविद्या नेमैतिक (Acquired) हैं तो किस निमित से ब्रह्मा का अविद्या से संपर्क हुआ. यदि कोई और निमित मन जाये तो ब्रह्मा के साथ उस निमित को भी नित्य मन्ना पड़ेगा और उसे नित्य मानने पर द्वैत सिद्ध होता हैं फिट अद्वैतवाद नहीं रहता. दुसरे इस अविद्या का नाश वेदादि शास्त्रों के ज्ञान द्वारा होता हैं तो फिर वह निरुपाधि ब्रह्मा वेद ज्ञान को कैसे उत्पन्न करता हैं?

अद्वैत मत के अनुसार जीव की ब्रह्मा से कोई भिन्न सत्ता नहीं हैं. ब्रह्मा का जो आभास हैं जिसे चिदाभास कहते हैं अर्थात अंत: करण पर चैतन्य ब्रह्मा के प्रतिबिम्ब के कारण जीव अपने आप को ब्रह्मा होता हुआ भी जीव समझ रहा हैं. जिस प्रकार जल कुण्डों में सूर्य का प्रतिबिम्ब दिखाई देता हैं और जल के हिलने से सूर्य दिखाई देता हैं इसी प्रकार शरीर में अंत: करण के ऊपर ब्रह्मा का आभास (चिदाभास) पड़ता हैं, उसी के कारण ही जीव सब खेल करता हैं. इसकी समीक्षा यह हैं की निराकार और सर्व व्यापक का प्रतिबिम्ब नहीं होता. प्रतिबिम्ब साकार और दूर की वास्तु का होता हैं. इसलिए सूर्य का दृष्टान्त यहाँ ठीक नहीं बैठता. सूर्य साकार हैं और जल के कुण्डों से दूर हैं. इसलिए भीतर और बाहर व्यापक निराकार ब्रह्मा में यह दृष्टान्त नहीं घट सकता.

अद्वैत मत के अनुसार भ्रान्ति होने के कारण हम ब्रह्मा होते हुए भी अपने आपको जीव मान रहे हैं और यह भ्रम बुद्धि को होता हैं आत्मा को नहीं. इसकी समीक्षा यह हैं की बुद्धि जड़ वास्तु हैं और सुख दुःख आदि का अनुभव चेतन यानि आत्मा को होता हैं जड़ को नहीं . जिस प्रकार नेत्र के देखने से कोई नहीं कहता की नेत्र देखते हैं सब यही अनुभव देखने वाला तो भीतर चेतन आत्मा हैं. नेत्र आदि तो उसके साधन भर हैं. ऋग्वेद १/१६४/२० तथा मुण्डक उपनिषद् ३/१/१ में लिखा हैं की यह जीव ही सुख दुःख का भोक्ता हैं. कठ उपनिषद् १/१/३ में लिखा हैं की शरीर, इन्द्रिय और मन के साथ युक्त होकर यह आत्मा सुख दुःख का उपभोग करता हैं. प्रश्न उपनिषद् ४/९ में लिखा हैं की यह आत्मा ही देखता, सुनता, सूंघता और मनन करता हैं. इन प्रमाणों से स्पष्ट सिद्ध होता हैं की मायावादियों का यह विचार की सांसारिक खेल बुद्धि करती हैं आत्मा नहीं सर्वथा निर्मूल हैं.

अद्वैत मत के कारण हानियाँ

प्राचीन वैदिक इतिहास को पढने से पता चलता हैं की आर्य लोग चरित्र में ऊँचे, ज्ञान में निपुण, युद्ध विद्या में कुशल होते थे. उनमे बुद्धि,वीरता और निर्भयता कूट कूट कर भरी होती थी. दुष्टों के नाश और सज्जनों की रक्षा के लिए वे सदा तत्पर रहते थे. ऋग्वेद १०/२८/४ में लिखा हैं की वीर पुरुष नदियों के बहाव को उल्टा देते हैं और घास खाने वाले जीवों से सिंह को भी मार डालते हैं.वैदिक कल में आर्य शास्त्र और शास्त्र दोनों में निपुण होते थे और परमेश्वर के अलावा किसी से भय नहीं खाते थे. इस प्रकार की शक्ति रखने वाले आर्यों का स्वार्थी, दब्बू, भयभीत और निरुत्साही जाति में परिवर्तन कैसे हो गया. इसका कारण भारत में फैले तीन अवैदिक मत हैं जैन, बुद्ध और वेदांत. जैन और बुद्ध मत के प्रभाव से छदम अहिंसा का प्रपंच आर्य हिन्दू जाति में घुस गया जिससे वे शक्ति हिन् होकर कमजोर हो गए और वेदांत के प्रभाव के कारण आर्य जाति में संसार से उदासीनता, जूठा वैराग्य और अकर्मयता आदि ने जन्म ले लिया .हम उदहारण देकर अपने कथन को सिद्ध करते हैं.

सिंध का राजा दाहिर वीर राजा था पर उसके राज्य में बुद्धों का वर्चस्व था. जब मुहम्मद बिन कासिम ने सिंध पर हमला किया तो बुद्धों ने सोचा की युद्ध करना अहिंसा नहीं हिंसा हैं इसलिए राजा का साथ नहीं दिया. जिससे राजा दाहिर हार गया. अपने देश की दुश्मनों से रक्षा करने के क्षात्र धर्म का पालन करना हिंसा नहीं कहलाती. (ref. History of India by C.B.Vaidya)

नालंदा विश्वविद्यालय शिक्षा के लिए विश्व प्रसिद्द था. यहाँ बुद्ध मत का प्रचार था. ११९७ में खिलजी ने केवल २०० सैनिकों के साथ यहाँ हमला किया, हजारों की संख्या में सिर मुंढे हुए अहिंसा परमों धर्म के मंत्र का जाप करते हुए गाजर मूली की तरह कट गए पर किसी भी बुद्ध भिक्षु ने उनका विरोध नहीं किया. इसके बाद खिलजी ने विश्व विद्यालय के पुस्तकालय को आग लगा कर लाखों पुस्तकों के भंडार का नाश कर दिया. (रेफ.History of India by Elliot)

इसी प्रकार गुजरात में सोमनाथ मंदिर पर जब मुहम्मद गजनी ने हमला किया तो हजारों की संख्या में उपस्थित पुजारियों और राजपूत सैनिकों ने जूठी अहिंसा,जूठी दया, जूठी शांति और मिथ्या वैराग्य का लबादा पहन लिया जिससे न केवल मंदिर का नाश हुआ बल्कि इतिहास में हमेशा हमेशा के लिए हिंदुयों पर कायर का धब्बा लग गया.

वेद में वीरों को क्षात्र धर्म का पालन करते हुए आज्ञा हैं हे मनुष्यों आगे बढों , विजयी बनों, ईश्वर तुम्हारी भलाई करेगा. तुम्हारी भुजाएं लम्बी हो, जिन्हें कोई रोक न सके- ऋग्वेद १०/१०३/१३

अथर्वेद ६/६/२ में लिखा हैं की जो दुष्ट हमें सताता हैं तुम वज्र यानि शस्त्रों से उसके मुख को तोड़ दो.

यजुर्वेद में लिखा हैं की राक्षस और लूटेरों को जला दो- यजुर्वेद १/७

इन प्रमाणों से यह सिद्ध होता हैं की जब तक हिन्दू जाति वेदों की आज्ञा का पालन करती रही वीर योध्या की भांति विश्व पर राज्य करती रही जब उसने वेदों का मार्ग छोड़कर अद्वैत मत के जगत को मिथ्या समझ कर अकर्मयता का विचार अपनाया अथवा जैन और बुद्ध धर्म के छदम अहिंसा को माना तब तब दुश्मनों से मार खायी.

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
To: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>

Cc: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

Yes Bhavesh Ji but the Hindu Vedic concept is not monotheism, we are against your labelling our Vedic theosophy to the Western monotheism, not because of western but it is simply not what Vedas teach. 

Monotheism is based on the duality of god bad nature where god sits separate from its creation and is the final judge of everything. 

The Hindu Vedic monism is that god and nature are the same reality only separated by Maya and the judge is your own karma not some sky god. 

Our NRI's contention is that Indians are always trying to follow the dictates of their Western masters, the inferiority complex still has not gone. 

But please look into the Indian philosophy which certainly at a metaphysical level have been copied by the Greeks first and then plagiarised by the West, which however on material level they developed to the levels that Indians failed to deliver and that probably due to suppressing talent through the rigidity of the caste system. 

However that does not mean that everything western is superior and Indians must always follow their norms. 

Anil Bhanot 

Sent from my iPad

On 1 Nov 2011, at 06:28, Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com> wrote:

It is true that the Biblical concept of God is not identical with the Vedic concept of One - Single God. In fact, the famous Christian 'trinity' - i.e. faith in 'three in one, and one in three' is not a theism at all - if viewed seriously. It is a sheer confusing notion. On other hand the Vedic concept of God is very precise and rational. It says that One Omni-present, Formless God exists or pervades everywhere. His existence is infinite and even beyond the creation. Being the most subtle conscious formless entity, He is not separate or away (space or distance wise) from the creation. He (as 'vyaapak' = Pervader) is present = all-pervading in the entire creation ('vyaapya'=Pervaded). Therefore it is said in the Vedic scriptures that He is very near as well as very far - being present everywhere. This unique characteristic of God itself leads us to the concept that He is One - a single indivisible entity. There is only one God, not two or many. Only one God is the sole controller of the entire cosmos - "Patih-eka aasit" This is the simple monotheism of the Vedas. I wish on this vital religious issue no rational and sensible Hindu should have any disagreement. 
= Bhavesh Merja

[Anil Bhanot]

Actually I prefer the word 'plurotheism' as best describes Hindu Vedic theosophy of the One with many aspects/incarnates and so on. The Plurotheism also goes along with the modern world's Human Rights legislations, which actually Monotheism can't really live up to.....though Anglicans are fine with it, Catholics less so and Islam still has to reform quite a bit in that regard, in my opinion, Anglicans reformed of course in the middle ages towards that.

But I have to say I do find the Arya Samajists Monotheism - as Arjun points out too - a little frightening as far as Human Rights legislations go.

anil bhanot

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 8:20 AM, Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com> wrote:

Vivek ji

Advait and Dwait are part of the same Hindu theosophy of Brahm as the reality manifested as the universe, in monotheism this is not so. Monism is a new word and first I heard of it was from Rabinder Kaul and needs to be debated more fully. But what I am clear in my mind is that the Hindu Vedic theosophy is not the dual based monotheism of the Abrahamic strand. This duality is different from the Dwait duality that we Hindus talk about. Monotheism is a duality which is basically God/Allah created the universe out of nothing and we are at its mercy unless we worship him, This is not so with Brahm and its creation and so Brahm is not about monotheism....you are taking the word one for mono but you have to look into the monotheism word as a whole and you will find its not what we Hindus base our phiolosphy on. Please don't confuse our duality of dwait with the very real duality of monotheism.

Rather let us debate on the word Monism or any other word that may fit our Hindu theosophy of yes one reality as all reality but with it comes plurality also in nature, hence several theisms leading to Brahm as Krishna taught in the last Hindu Veda, the Bhagwad Gita.

anil bhanot

[Anil Bhanot]

Vivek ji

Advait and Dwait are part of the same Hindu theosophy of Brahm as the reality manifested as the universe, in monotheism this is not so. Monism is a new word and first I heard of it was from Rabinder Kaul and needs to be debated more fully. But what I am clear in my mind is that the Hindu Vedic theosophy is not the dual based monotheism of the Abrahamic strand. This duality is different from the Dwait duality that we Hindus talk about. Monotheism is a duality which is basically God/Allah created the universe out of nothing and we are at its mercy unless we worship him, This is not so with Brahm and its creation and so Brahm is not about monotheism....you are taking the word one for mono but you have to look into the monotheism word as a whole and you will find its not what we Hindus base our phiolosphy on. Please don't confuse our duality of dwait with the very real duality of monotheism.

Rather let us debate on the word Monism or any other word that may fit our Hindu theosophy of yes one reality as all reality but with it comes plurality also in nature, hence several theisms leading to Brahm as Krishna taught in the last Hindu Veda, the Bhagwad Gita.

anil bhanot

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 7:57 AM, vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Arjun]

दयानन्द मठ दीनानगर से प्रकाशित तथा आचार्य प्रिटिंग प्रैस दयानन्द मठ गोहाना मार्ग रोहतक से मुद्रित के पृष्ठ 70 से 103 तक की कुछ झलक

• 1. 16 वर्ष की कन्या 25 वर्ष का वर यह विवाह समय निकृष्ट अर्थात् घटिया है। (ख) 20 वर्ष की स्त्री और 40वर्ष का पुरूष का योग काम चलाऊ अर्थात् मध्यम है। (ग) 24 वर्ष की स्त्री तथा 48 वर्ष के पुरूष का विवाह समय उत्तम है। महर्षि दयानन्द जी का भावार्थ है कि 24 वर्ष की स्त्री तथा 48 वर्ष के पुरूष का विवाह तथा उपरोक्त नियमों के अनुसार नहीं किया जाता वह देश खुशहाल नहीं हो सकता।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati marriage between a 16 year old girl and a 25 year old man is of inferior quality. Marriage between a 20 year old girl and a 40 year old man is of medium quality whereas marriage between a 24 year old girl and a 48 year old is of utmost quality. According to him a country where this is not followed, that country can never prosper.
• 2. जिस कुल में किसी के बवासीर, मिर्गी, क्षय, दमा, खांसी आदि रोग है, तथा किसी के शरीर पर बड़े-बड़े बाल है उस पूरे कुल की लड़की व लड़के से विवाह नहीं करना चाहिए।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati one should not marry a boy or a girl from a sept which has diseases like piles, epilepsy, tuberculosis, asthma, cough etc. and those with big hair on their body.
• 3. जिस लड़की का नाम गंगा, जमुना, सरस्वती, आदि नदियों पर है तथा काली नाम तथा भूरे नेत्रों वाली हो उससे विवाह न करना चाहिए (सौंण व कुसौंण का भी पूरा ध्यान रखा है) जिस लड़की की चाल हथनी व हंस जैसी हो तथा नाम यशोदा आदि हो उससे विवाह करें।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati one should not marry a girl whose name is derived from rivers like Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswati etc. or is called Kali, or has brown eyes. One should marry such a girl which has a gait like a female elephant or a swan and has name like Yashodha etc.
• 4. सत्यार्थ प्रकाश समुल्लास 4 पृष्ट 102 पर यह भी लिखा है कि जिस स्त्री का पति जीवित है वह दूर देश में रोजगार के लिए गया हो तो उसकी स्त्री तीन वर्ष तक बाट (प्रतिक्षा) देखकर किसी अन्य पुरूष से संतान उत्पत्ति नियोग कुकर्म से करले, जब पति घर आये तो नियोग किए पति को त्याग दे तथा उस गैर संतान का गोत्र भी विवाहित पति वाला ही माना जाएगा।
  
  Swami Dayanand Saraswati says in Satyarth Prakash, samullas 4 on page 102 that a woman whose husband is alive and has gone abroad due to purposes of work, then that woman after waiting for three years can produce a child from some other man. Then on return of the real husband that woman should renounce the temporary husband and go back to her real husband. Along with that the children produced from the temporary husband will share the same family name as that of the real husband.
• 5. जिस पुरूष की पत्नी अप्रिय बोलने वाली हो तो उस पुरूष को चाहिए कि किसी अन्य स्त्री से केवल नियोग करके संतान उत्पति करले तथा रहे अपनी पत्नी के साथ ही। इसी प्रकार जो पुरूष अत्यन्त दुःखदायक हो तो उसकी स्त्री भी दूसरे पुरूष से नियोग से संतान उत्पति करके उसी विवाहित पति के दायभागी संतान कर लेवे।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati, a man whose wife has a quarrelsome nature should produce children from some other woman but should continue to reside with his actual wife. Likewise if a husband of a woman is quarrelsome then she should produce children from some other man.
• 6. यदि किसी की स्त्री को आठ वर्ष तक संतान न हो तो वह पुरूष किसी अन्य स्त्री से नियोग (दुष्कर्म)करके संतान उत्पन्न कर ले। उस संतान को अपने घर ल आवे। जिसकी पत्नी से कन्या उत्पन्न होती हो लड़का उत्पन्न न होता हो तो वह पुरूष अन्य स्त्री से नियोग करके लड़का उत्पन्न करके घर ले आवे।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati, if a woman is unable to produce an offspring following eight years of marriage, then that woman's husband should produce children from some other woman and bring them home. If a woman is unable to produce a boy and is only producing daughters then that woman's husband should produce a boy from some other woman and then bring him home.
• 7. पृष्ठ 103 पर लिखा है:- स्त्री के गर्भ रहने के पश्चात् एक वर्ष तक स्त्री पुरूष मिलन नहीं करें। यदि पुरूष से न रहा जाए तो किसी विधवा स्त्री से नियोग (पशु तुल्य कर्म) करके संतान उत्पति कर दें।
  
  Swami Dayanand Saraswati says in Satyarth Prakash, on page 103 that once a wife becomes pregnant, husband and wife should not have sex. If the husband is unable to resist then he should have sex with some widow and produce children.

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From: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>

Cc: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 2:48

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

I believe in saying "मुर्खस्य वादम् बहिरस्य गीताम्"

On 1 Nov 2011, at 09:20, Arjun wrote:

i am a serious debater but i dont waste my time with people who have no understanding of vedic knowledge or symbolism but try to present themselves as intellectual superior by repeating the same nonsense again and again  because they have no ability to think for themselves beyond their holy book 'Satyarth Prakash'   but then make false claims to prove that monotheism originates in the Vedas by showing a few quotes taken out of context and misinterpreted as a One God but in the same line is also mentioned as HE..But of course like for the last thousand debates ive had with arya samajis they can never answer that question because they are too thick but then what to expect from people who think people are living on the Sun..You have no knowledge of the ancient world and its beliefs but are following the same line of Abrahamic monotheists who claim the world before was in blind ignorance after people got lost in their many gods and idol worship because they had forgotten the One He God....First of all try to study why you have an inferiority complex of trying to prove that the Vedas are promoting this One He God before even thinking of attempting of serious debate or otherwise be prepared for more ridicule

If we take a polytheistic perspective on the Vedas then there is much more proof of that than any inferior monotheism that your failed organisation talks about. No wonder its on its last legs and going down the toilet where it deserves to be...And dont think like most indians that putting Dr in your name suddenly makes you an authority on everything

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From: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011, 21:27

[Arjun]

yeh sure make big claims of popularity .Porn sites are even more successful so why dont you start one of those and get all the so called 'youths'  .All the so called youths on their are being turned into lambs for the slaughter for monotheists like Dr Zakir Naik to convert to islam at a later date..

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From: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011, 21:44

[Arjun]

good let all Hindus  see what a moron you really are and why you suffer from an inferiority complex .I believe in krishna Bhagwan and not some fake moronic organisation like the Arya Cult Samaj which repeats the same nonsense against hinduism like xitians and muslims

From: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Raj Pandit <rajpa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011, 21:59
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

arjun

 

satyarth prakash is based on vedas.

 

but i will like to know what are the source of stories given in puranas like illicit relationship of indra with wife of rishi brahma, orogin of shivalinga when lord shiva sexually aroused in daru van katha, hindu avtars fighting between themslves, lord krishna stealing cloths of bathing nude women etc etc , radha caughting krishna in golok doing sex wit gopis and cursing him, krishna sexual encouner with kubja dasi of mathura.

 

do you want more or still you are not ashamed.

 

or you still want to spit poison against aryasamaj and swami dayanand.

 

dr vivek arya

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From: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011, 21:44

[Anil Bhanot]

Yes Bhavesh Ji but the Hindu Vedic concept is not monotheism, we are against your labelling our Vedic theosophy to the Western monotheism, not because of western but it is simply not what Vedas teach. 

Monotheism is based on the duality of god bad nature where god sits separate from its creation and is the final judge of everything. 

The Hindu Vedic monism is that god and nature are the same reality only separated by Maya and the judge is your own karma not some sky god. 

Our NRI's contention is that Indians are always trying to follow the dictates of their Western masters, the inferiority complex still has not gone. 

But please look into the Indian philosophy which certainly at a metaphysical level have been copied by the Greeks first and then plagiarised by the West, which however on material level they developed to the levels that Indians failed to deliver and that probably due to suppressing talent through the rigidity of the caste system. 

However that does not mean that everything western is superior and Indians must always follow their norms. 

Anil Bhanot 

Sent from my iPad

On 1 Nov 2011, at 06:28, Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com> wrote:

It is true that the Biblical concept of God is not identical with the Vedic concept of One - Single God. In fact, the famous Christian 'trinity' - i.e. faith in 'three in one, and one in three' is not a theism at all - if viewed seriously. It is a sheer confusing notion. On other hand the Vedic concept of God is very precise and rational. It says that One Omni-present, Formless God exists or pervades everywhere. His existence is infinite and even beyond the creation. Being the most subtle conscious formless entity, He is not separate or away (space or distance wise) from the creation. He (as 'vyaapak' = Pervader) is present = all-pervading in the entire creation ('vyaapya'=Pervaded). Therefore it is said in the Vedic scriptures that He is very near as well as very far - being present everywhere. This unique characteristic of God itself leads us to the concept that He is One - a single indivisible entity. There is only one God, not two or many. Only one God is the sole controller of the entire cosmos - "Patih-eka aasit" This is the simple monotheism of the Vedas. I wish on this vital religious issue no rational and sensible Hindu should have any disagreement. 
= Bhavesh Merja

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Arjun]

i am a serious debater but i dont waste my time with people who have no understanding of vedic knowledge or symbolism but try to present themselves as intellectual superior by repeating the same nonsense again and again  because they have no ability to think for themselves beyond their holy book 'Satyarth Prakash'   but then make false claims to prove that monotheism originates in the Vedas by showing a few quotes taken out of context and misinterpreted as a One God but in the same line is also mentioned as HE..But of course like for the last thousand debates ive had with arya samajis they can never answer that question because they are too thick but then what to expect from people who think people are living on the Sun..You have no knowledge of the ancient world and its beliefs but are following the same line of Abrahamic monotheists who claim the world before was in blind ignorance after people got lost in their many gods and idol worship because they had forgotten the One He God....First of all try to study why you have an inferiority complex of trying to prove that the Vedas are promoting this One He God before even thinking of attempting of serious debate or otherwise be prepared for more ridicule

If we take a polytheistic perspective on the Vedas then there is much more proof of that than any inferior monotheism that your failed organisation talks about. No wonder its on its last legs and going down the toilet where it deserves to be...And dont think like most indians that putting Dr in your name suddenly makes you an authority on everything

From: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, 31 October 2011, 21:27

[Dr. Madhukar Ambekar]

I believe in saying "मुर्खस्य वादम् बहिरस्य गीताम्"

[vivek arya]

anil ji

 

i had provided evidences from the vedas to prove monotheism in the vedas.

 

i am yet to read any evidences from the vedas supporting polytheism.

 

abusing me and doing personal attacks only proves that so called chronic debators do not know anything about vedas.

 

they are just passing time and abusing aryasamaj members.

 

dr vivek arya

 

 

 

 

From: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
To: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

Namaste Anil ji,

On your response I would like to submit my views as under:

Monotheism- Doctrine that there is only one God:

It has never been our intention to stick to any specific western term - say ‘Monotheism’ and fight for it. We value its significance and the meaning it gives. The dictionary meaning of ‘Monotheism’ is - “Doctrine that there is only one God”.  We don’t see any reason to disagree to this meaning. If any one has strong repugnance for this term ‘Monotheism’ for whatever reasons, he is free not to use it. We don’t dispute. But here the debate is centered on the basic question – Whether God is One, or Gods are many – more than one?  Here we state that He is One without a second as described in the Vedas and Vedic literature. Do you believe in some thing else? I don’t think that you may be believer of the contrary thing - that God is not one, but many – more than one. If you really believe that Gods (= Ishwars) are many, then would you please furnish a few scriptural evidences from the Vedas and Vedic literature with meaning in support of what you uphold?

God is immanent:

Have we, the members of Arya Samaj, ever said that ‘Monotheism’ means – “God sitting separate from the creation”? No. We consider Him all-pervading, present every where. How can we say like that? Yes, He is the final administrator of justice – justice of the soul’s deeds – Good and bad. He is therefore addressed as ‘Aryamaa’ in the Vedas. He is just and always does perfect justice.

Monism (Non-Dualism) is anti-Vedic:

As shown in the article of Dr Vivek Arya, Monism (adwait-vaad) has no place in the Vedas and Vedic literature. It was started by Gaudapaada Acharya – the master of Swami Shankaracharya’s master almost 2500 years ago. The Vedas teach that there are three basic fundamental uncreated eternal entities - God, soul(s) and Matter (=Inert Prakriti). They always maintain their individualities & distinctiveness. They are co-existing eternally. God creates universe out of Prakriti for souls. God is a conscious formless entity while nature (= jagat, srishti) is an unconscious visible thing. Both cannot be said identical. How can I say that my pencil is nothing but God Himself? God has created Sun for us (souls) using Prakriti as a basic raw material (material cause).  We can’t say that Sun is God. We can’t say that Sun and soul(s) are identical. God can never be soul; and a soul can never be God. God is God for ever. Soul is soul for ever.

‘Maya’ – the most misused term in Indian Philosophy:

‘Maya’ as per Vedas is nothing but knowledge or pragna. You may refer Nighantu for its true meaning. In Shwetaswatar Upanishad ‘Maya’ is used as Prakriti – the material cause of creation. But in neo-Vedant school (adwaitvaad) it is simply misused or used in most arbitrary manner to suit the occasion. Would you please tell us what do you mean by this term ‘Maya’? Is it conscious or inert? Is it eternal or non-eternal? Is it substance or attribute of some other substance?

Karma (actions) can’t function as a sole administrator of justice:

You have written that – “the judge is your own karma not some (sky) god”. But karma is not a conscious entity capable to judge and execute justice. A mere law or rule itself cannot run the administration. A conscious ruler is essential to run the system as per the rules. Hence all our karmas (actions) are constantly supervised or witnessed by Omni-present God and He mercifully gives away their appropriate fruits – rewards and punishment depending upon the merits and demerits of the actions. God possesses not only the complete knowledge of all our actions, but He also has the capacity to give their appropriate fruits.  He is therefore called - ‘Karmaadhyaksh’ (‘abhichaakashiti’ – in Rigvedic terms). 

Arya Samaj follows Vedic teachers:

We don’t have any western masters and we don’t follow dictates of any western masters. The Vedas, the great Rishis of Upanishads, Darshans, Manu, Patanjali, Yaska, Dayananda etc are our great masters in the domains of dharma, philosophy and spirituality. We don’t suffer from any sort of complex – inferiority or superiority.

Conclusion:

We sincerely believe that Hinduism can still triumph world over if it follows the eternal teachings of the Vedas. And in doing so Swami Dayananda’s books like Satyarth-Prakash (The Light of Truth) could provide us immense guidance. Our intention is not to deify Swami Dayananda.

= Bhavesh Merja

[Arjun]

Conclusion:

We sincerely believe that Hinduism can still triumph world over if it follows the eternal teachings of the Vedas. And in doing so Swami Dayananda’s books like Satyarth-Prakash (The Light of Truth) could provide us immense guidance. Our intention is not to deify Swami Dayananda.

= Bhavesh Merja

So there we are.Anyone with any common sense can see clearly in that statement that Swami Dayananda and his book Satyarth Prakash are higher than the Vedas itself..

Hindu thought and ideas are already capturing the worlds imagination which is freeing itself from the cluthches of the One He God Anti Idol syndrome but the Arya Samaj wants the whole world to be brought back to it with a Vedic stamp of Approval..From Swami Vivekananda to Swami Aurobindo to Swami Prabhupada to Maharishi Yogi to Sri Sri Ravi Shanker to Satguru Shiva Subramanian Swamy and present day Hindus like Pandit Vamadev Shastri and thousands of more who have expanded Hindu thought in its various aspects around the world for the last hundred years but we dont see the Arya Samaj involved at all but then they havent even captured the imagination of the hindu masses in india then what chance have they got with the rest of the world..When Hollywoods biggest film Director 'James Cameron made Avatar the biggest hit movie in the world he had this to say on the Hindu influence on it

 "I have just loved ... the mythology, the entire Hindu pantheon, seems so rich and vivid." He continued, "I didn't want to reference the Hindu religion so closely, but the subconscious association was interesting, and I hope I haven't offended any one in doing so. He has stated that he was familiar with a lot of beliefs of the Hindu religion and found it "quite fascinating". Answering a question from Time magazine in 2007, "What is an Avatar anyway?" James Cameron replied, "It's an incarnation of one of the Hindu gods taking a flesh form. In this film what that means is that the human technology in the future is capable of injecting a human's intelligence into a remotely located body, a biological body."

Im sure it wasnt the Sathyarth Prakash that played a part in his subconscious..   because The Arya Samaj cult wants to destroy they very essence of the multiple creative beauty of Hinduism which is attracting the world to Hindu Dharma

---

From: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
To: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 4:47

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

Namaste Anil ji,

On your response I would like to submit my views as under:

Monotheism- Doctrine that there is only one God:

It has never been our intention to stick to any specific western term - say ‘Monotheism’ and fight for it. We value its significance and the meaning it gives. The dictionary meaning of ‘Monotheism’ is - “Doctrine that there is only one God”.  We don’t see any reason to disagree to this meaning. If any one has strong repugnance for this term ‘Monotheism’ for whatever reasons, he is free not to use it. We don’t dispute. But here the debate is centered on the basic question – Whether God is One, or Gods are many – more than one?  Here we state that He is One without a second as described in the Vedas and Vedic literature. Do you believe in some thing else? I don’t think that you may be believer of the contrary thing - that God is not one, but many – more than one. If you really believe that Gods (= Ishwars) are many, then would you please furnish a few scriptural evidences from the Vedas and Vedic literature with meaning in support of what you uphold?

God is immanent:

Have we, the members of Arya Samaj, ever said that ‘Monotheism’ means – “God sitting separate from the creation”? No. We consider Him all-pervading, present every where. How can we say like that? Yes, He is the final administrator of justice – justice of the soul’s deeds – Good and bad. He is therefore addressed as ‘Aryamaa’ in the Vedas. He is just and always does perfect justice.

Monism (Non-Dualism) is anti-Vedic:

As shown in the article of Dr Vivek Arya, Monism (adwait-vaad) has no place in the Vedas and Vedic literature. It was started by Gaudapaada Acharya – the master of Swami Shankaracharya’s master almost 2500 years ago. The Vedas teach that there are three basic fundamental uncreated eternal entities - God, soul(s) and Matter (=Inert Prakriti). They always maintain their individualities & distinctiveness. They are co-existing eternally. God creates universe out of Prakriti for souls. God is a conscious formless entity while nature (= jagat, srishti) is an unconscious visible thing. Both cannot be said identical. How can I say that my pencil is nothing but God Himself? God has created Sun for us (souls) using Prakriti as a basic raw material (material cause).  We can’t say that Sun is God. We can’t say that Sun and soul(s) are identical. God can never be soul; and a soul can never be God. God is God for ever. Soul is soul for ever.

‘Maya’ – the most misused term in Indian Philosophy:

‘Maya’ as per Vedas is nothing but knowledge or pragna. You may refer Nighantu for its true meaning. In Shwetaswatar Upanishad ‘Maya’ is used as Prakriti – the material cause of creation. But in neo-Vedant school (adwaitvaad) it is simply misused or used in most arbitrary manner to suit the occasion. Would you please tell us what do you mean by this term ‘Maya’? Is it conscious or inert? Is it eternal or non-eternal? Is it substance or attribute of some other substance?

Karma (actions) can’t function as a sole administrator of justice:

You have written that – “the judge is your own karma not some (sky) god”. But karma is not a conscious entity capable to judge and execute justice. A mere law or rule itself cannot run the administration. A conscious ruler is essential to run the system as per the rules. Hence all our karmas (actions) are constantly supervised or witnessed by Omni-present God and He mercifully gives away their appropriate fruits – rewards and punishment depending upon the merits and demerits of the actions. God possesses not only the complete knowledge of all our actions, but He also has the capacity to give their appropriate fruits.  He is therefore called - ‘Karmaadhyaksh’ (‘abhichaakashiti’ – in Rigvedic terms). 

Arya Samaj follows Vedic teachers:

We don’t have any western masters and we don’t follow dictates of any western masters. The Vedas, the great Rishis of Upanishads, Darshans, Manu, Patanjali, Yaska, Dayananda etc are our great masters in the domains of dharma, philosophy and spirituality. We don’t suffer from any sort of complex – inferiority or superiority.

Conclusion:

We sincerely believe that Hinduism can still triumph world over if it follows the eternal teachings of the Vedas. And in doing so Swami Dayananda’s books like Satyarth-Prakash (The Light of Truth) could provide us immense guidance. Our intention is not to deify Swami Dayananda.

= Bhavesh Merja

[Arjun]

again you will be asked with your so called evidence..Is this One god a He ?

---

From: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>

To: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 5:27

[Arjun]

well thanks for that but now you have proved also there is no One god either because One is just generic term/definition just like HE which the Arya Samaj have confused as monothiesm...

---

From: Arun Kumar <arun_...@yahoo.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 7:20

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

God has no gender. in Vedas he has been described by all three genders. People use the word He for God and that is limitation in the language.

BTW, do you know that there are lot of words in Sanskrit language they represent a feminine word but they are used as pulling in Sanskrit grammar. and similarly there are words which represents a masculine object but when used in Sanskrit language their vibhakti rupas are made in striling.

Thanks

Arun

---

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 9:38 AM

[Anil Bhanot]

Bhavesh ji

You have raised many questions and in email its not possible to discuss this as in substance we would agree on karma, conscious element, maya - well again the differences in verbal interpretations are not significant to my mind, and in face to face discussions we would come to agree the concepts. 

But on monotheism I am afraid I do not share your meaning of whatever dictionary you use because the definition is incomplete. It gives you the basis of mono-theism as one God but does not expand into its theism. 

It is that theism which I am saying comes under mono-theism is NOT the theism of the One Brahm of the Vedas/Gita/Hindu scriptures at large. 

But let's not get into a war of wits. 

Many thanks. 

Anil Bhanot

Message sent from iPhone  

On 1 Nov 2011, at 11:47, Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Namaste Anil ji,

On your response I would like to submit my views as under:

Monotheism- Doctrine that there is only one God:

It has never been our intention to stick to any specific western term - say ‘Monotheism’ and fight for it. We value its significance and the meaning it gives. The dictionary meaning of ‘Monotheism’ is - “Doctrine that there is only one God”.  We don’t see any reason to disagree to this meaning. If any one has strong repugnance for this term ‘Monotheism’ for whatever reasons, he is free not to use it. We don’t dispute. But here the debate is centered on the basic question – Whether God is One, or Gods are many – more than one?  Here we state that He is One without a second as described in the Vedas and Vedic literature. Do you believe in some thing else? I don’t think that you may be believer of the contrary thing - that God is not one, but many – more than one. If you really believe that Gods (= Ishwars) are many, then would you please furnish a few scriptural evidences from the Vedas and Vedic literature with meaning in support of what you uphold?

God is immanent:

Have we, the members of Arya Samaj, ever said that ‘Monotheism’ means – “God sitting separate from the creation”? No. We consider Him all-pervading, present every where. How can we say like that? Yes, He is the final administrator of justice – justice of the soul’s deeds – Good and bad. He is therefore addressed as ‘Aryamaa’ in the Vedas. He is just and always does perfect justice.

Monism (Non-Dualism) is anti-Vedic:

As shown in the article of Dr Vivek Arya, Monism (adwait-vaad) has no place in the Vedas and Vedic literature. It was started by Gaudapaada Acharya – the master of Swami Shankaracharya’s master almost 2500 years ago. The Vedas teach that there are three basic fundamental uncreated eternal entities - God, soul(s) and Matter (=Inert Prakriti). They always maintain their individualities & distinctiveness. They are co-existing eternally. God creates universe out of Prakriti for souls. God is a conscious formless entity while nature (= jagat, srishti) is an unconscious visible thing. Both cannot be said identical. How can I say that my pencil is nothing but God Himself? God has created Sun for us (souls) using Prakriti as a basic raw material (material cause).  We can’t say that Sun is God. We can’t say that Sun and soul(s) are identical. God can never be soul; and a soul can never be God. God is God for ever. Soul is soul for ever.

‘Maya’ – the most misused term in Indian Philosophy:

‘Maya’ as per Vedas is nothing but knowledge or pragna. You may refer Nighantu for its true meaning. In Shwetaswatar Upanishad ‘Maya’ is used as Prakriti – the material cause of creation. But in neo-Vedant school (adwaitvaad) it is simply misused or used in most arbitrary manner to suit the occasion. Would you please tell us what do you mean by this term ‘Maya’? Is it conscious or inert? Is it eternal or non-eternal? Is it substance or attribute of some other substance?

Karma (actions) can’t function as a sole administrator of justice:

You have written that – “the judge is your own karma not some (sky) god”. But karma is not a conscious entity capable to judge and execute justice. A mere law or rule itself cannot run the administration. A conscious ruler is essential to run the system as per the rules. Hence all our karmas (actions) are constantly supervised or witnessed by Omni-present God and He mercifully gives away their appropriate fruits – rewards and punishment depending upon the merits and demerits of the actions. God possesses not only the complete knowledge of all our actions, but He also has the capacity to give their appropriate fruits.  He is therefore called - ‘Karmaadhyaksh’ (‘abhichaakashiti’ – in Rigvedic terms). 

Arya Samaj follows Vedic teachers:

We don’t have any western masters and we don’t follow dictates of any western masters. The Vedas, the great Rishis of Upanishads, Darshans, Manu, Patanjali, Yaska, Dayananda etc are our great masters in the domains of dharma, philosophy and spirituality. We don’t suffer from any sort of complex – inferiority or superiority.

Conclusion:

We sincerely believe that Hinduism can still triumph world over if it follows the eternal teachings of the Vedas. And in doing so Swami Dayananda’s books like Satyarth-Prakash (The Light of Truth) could provide us immense guidance. Our intention is not to deify Swami Dayananda.

= Bhavesh Merja

[Arjun]

Its good to gather all the weak arguments of the  AS as it will be used to expose them even further..They had their use at one time but now have turned into another parasitical cult.They are a bunch of hypocrites because they condemn the very Hindus and their beliefs who they beg for donations to survive because the real monotheists will never let them enter their club...Can they even equal Shivaji who worshipped deities in the form of feminine aspect of the divine ? of course they cant and then they have the audacity to condemn murthi puja..No wonder the majority of the Hindu masses rejected them in the end...The best thing to do is take some of their best ideas like Shuddi( which ive done a few times) and few other ideas on reform but dump the rest as hinduism always evolves on by taking what's good and getting rid of whats not useful anymore..

---

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

To: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
Cc: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 8:03
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

[Arjun]

if you dont already understand which grammar rule this discussion is under that you going on about ?  In a sentence One and He is mentioned that you cant say that He is used as there is limitation in the language while One is not..You cant choose one part of the sentence that suits your argument to prove your point but refuse the other part of the same sentence that disputes your argument..What ive studied or not is not going to make any difference because the Arya Samaj Cult is already on the way out so you are not at all important but are here for us  to show others the downfall of another monotheistic wannabe cult who also believe theres people living on the Sun reading the Vedas......Now trying to act like an expert of the vedas is not going to make any difference to me or any other normal person even if you know sanskrit  trying to prove that Vedas preach monotheism because then it shows you are a bigger idiot than all having no understanding of what you claim to have knowledge about...

---

From: Arun Kumar <arun_...@yahoo.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 8:48

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

according to which grammar rule you are saying one is generic term for many. Have you studied Ashtadhyai/Mahabhashya?

---

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Arun Kumar <arun_...@yahoo.com>; vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:55 AM

[Anil Bhanot]

Thank you Menon ji, we must define our own words for the very deep concepts of our Rishis rather than try and adopt others names to show somehow that oh we are also like you please don't discount us. We are different in that sense, our theism is different, our Dharma is different. All religions may have spirituality inn them to ultimately move the soul towards Brahm but every religion is DIFFERENT, not the same, and certainly Hindu Vedic theism is NOT monotheism.

If people think its nearer to Monism, as you say below, then what is wrong having our own definitions. Its high time we did and led rather than follow.

Anil Bhanot

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:19 AM, govindan menon <tcgm...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Dear Friends,

  I fully agree with Anil Bhanot's explanation. As far as Hinduism is concerned  Monism is the apt word. The meaning of the word Monism is not there in any English dictionary. But I got the definition from Internet.

  That is the reason why many of  our  Swamijis  like Swami Dayananda Saraswathi  of Arsha Vidya Peetham and  Sri Sri  Ravishankar   say that there is not one God, but only God.

Definition of Monism.

 

1. The view in metaphysics that reality is a unified whole and that all existing things can be ascribed to or described by a single concept or system.

2. The doctrine that mind and matter are formed from, or reducible to, the same ultimate substance or principle of being.

 

Tcg

.

 

---

Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:45:21 +0000

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

From: bhano...@gmail.com
To: drviv...@yahoo.com
CC: bcm...@gmail.com; arr...@ameritech.net; arjun...@yahoo.co.uk; gchatt...@gmail.com; shyam_n...@yahoo.com; satish...@yahoo.com; psab...@hotmail.com; hita...@gmail.com; kata...@aol.com; sadhak_...@yahoo.com; jitender...@gmail.com; kri...@hindupedia.com; shankara...@yahoo.com; london...@yahoo.co.uk; tinasa...@yahoo.com; irmamuns...@gmail.com; sande...@hotmail.com; ani...@yahoo.co.uk; govind...@hotmail.com; rishi...@hotmail.com; ranbir...@talktalk.net; culturalbri...@yahoo.com; tcgm...@hotmail.com; vyshv...@gmail.com; live_by...@yahoo.co.uk; drmna...@yahoo.co.uk; rsin...@yahoo.com; brah...@yahoo.com; aryasam...@yahoogroups.com; aryayou...@yahoogroups.com; bhagav...@yahoo.ca; akansh...@yahoo.com; arya...@hotmail.com; mish...@aol.com; msb...@yahoo.com; naveen...@yahoo.co.in; arun_...@yahoo.com; jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in; puneet...@gmail.com; ashwini...@yahoo.ca; eka...@btinternet.com; jayasw...@gmail.com; as_...@rediffmail.com; baksh...@yahoo.com; skan...@gmail.com; op.t...@gmail.com; bharat...@gmail.com; ahven...@gmail.com; gir...@aryasamaj.com; desi...@googlegroups.com; vijaya...@yahoo.com; ashoks...@rediffmail.com; satyar...@gmail.com; vsg...@yahoo.com; arya.v...@gmail.com; kcg...@yahoo.com; su_...@ymail.com; ajaya...@gmail.com; rajpa...@yahoo.com; agni...@gmail.com

[Mukund Apte]

 

      Dear Sir,

      In Vedas it is not mentioned anywhere if there are many Gods. The fact is that it has discussed so many energies that are in the Universe that as usual to every Energy or every virtue that a man comes in front of him, makes him bow begfore the Energy or Virtue. As soon as one bows before someone, he vbecomes God ia the general attitude. Father, Mother, Giru, Bhaaratvarsh all are respected and hence become Gods. There are slogans in Vedic literature like मात्रु देवो भवl पितृ देवो भवl अतिथी देवो भवl Does it mean we have so many Gods in Hinduism? All superiors are bowed before as respect. Why should people feel that only Gods should be respected and none else?

      This is just a show by monotheists to feel superior (without reason whatsoever)to ask such questions to Bhaarateey people.

      With regards to all,

      ------Mukund Apte  

      With regards to all,
      ------Mukund Apte

[Arjun]

With all respect to Swami Dayananad but hes one of many millions of Swamis so hes not some chosen prophet like you want the rest of us to believe..Now if you had understood in what context i used James Cameron( in reaction to your comment) as an example then maybe you would have started to get out of your monotheist straitjacket but its seems even now you cant but prefer to live in ignorance   which also shows and proves why the Arya Samaj has not made no impact on the masses and is on the way out..

---

From: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>

To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 22:50

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

Arya Samaj considers the four Vedas as "Swatah Pramaan" - the final authority; and other Vedic books authored by great Vedic Rishis as "Paratah Praman" - the secondary authority. One may read this in the last chapter of Swami Dayananda's Satyarth-Prakash. He writes there as under:

"I hold that the four Vedas – the repository of Knowledge and Religious Truths – are the Word of God. They comprise what is known as the Samhitâ-Mantra portion only. They are absolutely free from error, and are an authority unto themselves. In other words, they do not stand in need of any other book to uphold their authority. Just as the sun (or a lamp) by its light, reveals its own nature as well as that of other objects of the universe, such as the earth – even so are the Vedas. The commentaries on the four Vedas, viz., the Brâhmanas, the six Angas, the six Upângas, the four Up-Vedas, and the eleven hundred and twenty-seven Shâkhâs, which are expositions of the Vedic texts by Brahmâ and other great Rishis – I look upon as works of a dependent character. In other words, they are held to be authoritative in so far as they conform to the teachings of the Vedas. Whatever passages in these works are opposed to the Vedic injunctions I reject them entirely."

For Arya Samaj Swami Dayananda's books are "Paratah pramaan" - and not the "Swatah Pramaan". This is the true position.

James Cameron might have used Hindu mythological theme or idea in producing his movie, (I haven't seen that movie, so not sure) and we don't dispute on that. But should he, simply for that reason, be considered as an authority in religious and philosophical matters?

If any Cristian or Muslim person is attracted towards the truth, it is always good. Same is good when any Hindu is attracted towards the truth. Sincere and honest search for truth is a great thing and should always be welcome. But idolatry, polytheism, theory of God's incarnation, the concept of the only son of God, forgiveness of sins, God's last messenger or prophet etc are not the truths. They are gross misunderstandings and superstitions.

Arya Samaj is getting popular or not is a secondary thing. The primary and important thing is whether it is sincerely engaged in its universal mission of eradication of ignorance, nescience, superstitions, dogmas, and spread of eternal message of the Vedic truths or not. 

= Bhavesh Merja

[Arjun]

i wouldnt unleash the legend right yet like a fool especially one who cant see beyond the ONE HE God .Even in English you dont have to use HE just like One to define God so lets not try to be too clever but then saying that the Arya Samaj are a bunch of monotheist retards then what to expect..Now apart from believing theres people living on the Sun and reading the Vedas here's some more from you holy book The Sathyarth Prakash

दयानन्द मठ दीनानगर से प्रकाशित तथा आचार्य प्रिटिंग प्रैस दयानन्द मठ गोहाना मार्ग रोहतक से मुद्रित के पृष्ठ 70 से 103 तक की कुछ झलक

• 1. 16 वर्ष की कन्या 25 वर्ष का वर यह विवाह समय निकृष्ट अर्थात् घटिया है। (ख) 20 वर्ष की स्त्री और 40वर्ष का पुरूष का योग काम चलाऊ अर्थात् मध्यम है। (ग) 24 वर्ष की स्त्री तथा 48 वर्ष के पुरूष का विवाह समय उत्तम है। महर्षि दयानन्द जी का भावार्थ है कि 24 वर्ष की स्त्री तथा 48 वर्ष के पुरूष का विवाह तथा उपरोक्त नियमों के अनुसार नहीं किया जाता वह देश खुशहाल नहीं हो सकता।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati marriage between a 16 year old girl and a 25 year old man is of inferior quality. Marriage between a 20 year old girl and a 40 year old man is of medium quality whereas marriage between a 24 year old girl and a 48 year old is of utmost quality. According to him a country where this is not followed, that country can never prosper.
• 2. जिस कुल में किसी के बवासीर, मिर्गी, क्षय, दमा, खांसी आदि रोग है, तथा किसी के शरीर पर बड़े-बड़े बाल है उस पूरे कुल की लड़की व लड़के से विवाह नहीं करना चाहिए।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati one should not marry a boy or a girl from a sept which has diseases like piles, epilepsy, tuberculosis, asthma, cough etc. and those with big hair on their body.
• 3. जिस लड़की का नाम गंगा, जमुना, सरस्वती, आदि नदियों पर है तथा काली नाम तथा भूरे नेत्रों वाली हो उससे विवाह न करना चाहिए (सौंण व कुसौंण का भी पूरा ध्यान रखा है) जिस लड़की की चाल हथनी व हंस जैसी हो तथा नाम यशोदा आदि हो उससे विवाह करें।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati one should not marry a girl whose name is derived from rivers like Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswati etc. or is called Kali, or has brown eyes. One should marry such a girl which has a gait like a female elephant or a swan and has name like Yashodha etc.
• 4. सत्यार्थ प्रकाश समुल्लास 4 पृष्ट 102 पर यह भी लिखा है कि जिस स्त्री का पति जीवित है वह दूर देश में रोजगार के लिए गया हो तो उसकी स्त्री तीन वर्ष तक बाट (प्रतिक्षा) देखकर किसी अन्य पुरूष से संतान उत्पत्ति नियोग कुकर्म से करले, जब पति घर आये तो नियोग किए पति को त्याग दे तथा उस गैर संतान का गोत्र भी विवाहित पति वाला ही माना जाएगा।
  
  Swami Dayanand Saraswati says in Satyarth Prakash, samullas 4 on page 102 that a woman whose husband is alive and has gone abroad due to purposes of work, then that woman after waiting for three years can produce a child from some other man. Then on return of the real husband that woman should renounce the temporary husband and go back to her real husband. Along with that the children produced from the temporary husband will share the same family name as that of the real husband.
• 5. जिस पुरूष की पत्नी अप्रिय बोलने वाली हो तो उस पुरूष को चाहिए कि किसी अन्य स्त्री से केवल नियोग करके संतान उत्पति करले तथा रहे अपनी पत्नी के साथ ही। इसी प्रकार जो पुरूष अत्यन्त दुःखदायक हो तो उसकी स्त्री भी दूसरे पुरूष से नियोग से संतान उत्पति करके उसी विवाहित पति के दायभागी संतान कर लेवे।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati, a man whose wife has a quarrelsome nature should produce children from some other woman but should continue to reside with his actual wife. Likewise if a husband of a woman is quarrelsome then she should produce children from some other man.
• 6. यदि किसी की स्त्री को आठ वर्ष तक संतान न हो तो वह पुरूष किसी अन्य स्त्री से नियोग (दुष्कर्म)करके संतान उत्पन्न कर ले। उस संतान को अपने घर ल आवे। जिसकी पत्नी से कन्या उत्पन्न होती हो लड़का उत्पन्न न होता हो तो वह पुरूष अन्य स्त्री से नियोग करके लड़का उत्पन्न करके घर ले आवे।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati, if a woman is unable to produce an offspring following eight years of marriage, then that woman's husband should produce children from some other woman and bring them home. If a woman is unable to produce a boy and is only producing daughters then that woman's husband should produce a boy from some other woman and then bring him home.
• 7. पृष्ठ 103 पर लिखा है:- स्त्री के गर्भ रहने के पश्चात् एक वर्ष तक स्त्री पुरूष मिलन नहीं करें। यदि पुरूष से न रहा जाए तो किसी विधवा स्त्री से नियोग (पशु तुल्य कर्म) करके संतान उत्पति कर दें।
  
  Swami Dayanand Saraswati says in Satyarth Prakash, on page 103 that once a wife becomes pregnant, husband and wife should not have sex. If the husband is unable to resist then he should have sex with some widow and produce children.

---

From: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>

To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Arun Kumar <arun_...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 20:59

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

arjun

 

you are confused and confusing others also.

 

read the hindi interpretation of mantra it mentions

 

 अथर्ववेद १३.४ (२), १५-२०- जो व्यक्ति इस परमात्मा देव को एक रूप में विद्यमान जनता हैं, जो की वह न दूसरा हैं, न तीसरा हैं और न चौथा हैं ऐसा जानता हैं, जोकि वह पांचवा हैं, न छठा हैं और न सांतवा हैं ऐसा जानता हैं, जोकि वह न आठवां हैं, न नवां हैं और न दसवां हैं ऐसा जानता हैं, वह सब कुछ जानता हैं. वह चेतन और अचेतन संपूर्ण रहस्य को जन लेता हैं. उसी परमात्मा देव में यह सारा जगत समाया हुआ हैं. वह देव अत्यंत सहन शक्ति वाला हैं. वह एक ही हैं, अकेला ही वर्तमान हैं, वह एक ही हैं.

 

word वह is mentioned for the god in te mantra.

 

 

now its limitations of english language that if we tranlslate this word as "he" then ignorant like you interpretate the almighty god as male and again gets confused.

 

by the way its not your fault.

 

its bad impact of krishna kunja sexual encounter on your brain that you can nedd some adult stuff in vedic mantra but sorry vedas do not promote adultry as mentioned in fake texts like puranas whom you considers as holy? books.

 

 

LOOOOL

 

DR VIVEK ARYA

 

 

 

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Arun Kumar <arun_...@yahoo.com>; vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

well thanks for that but now you have proved also there is no One god either because One is just generic term/definition just like HE which the Arya Samaj have confused as monothiesm...

From: Arun Kumar <arun_...@yahoo.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 7:20
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

God has no gender. in Vedas he has been described by all three genders. People use the word He for God and that is limitation in the language.

BTW, do you know that there are lot of words in Sanskrit language they represent a feminine word but they are used as pulling in Sanskrit grammar. and similarly there are words which represents a masculine object but when used in Sanskrit language their vibhakti rupas are made in striling.

Thanks

Arun

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

again you will be asked with your so called evidence..Is this One god a He ?

[vivek arya]

Arjun

 

If owls are not able to see in daylight its not fault of sun.

 

Read what is contribution of Swami Dayanand to Hindu Solidarity.

 

and do tell me oot of millions of swamis in last 1000 years tell me anyone who had contributed more than swami dayanand and aryasamaj.

 

http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/08/21/contributions-of-swami-dayanand-to-hindu-society-2/

 

1. Swami Dayanand, Yug Pravartak / Yug Drashta, Founder of Arya Samaj, rebuilt the entire Indian nation & HINDU Society in a NEW Mould where every Hindu & Arya had to believe firmly that this country ” BHARAT” is their own land & No person of FOREIGN BIRTH could ever become HEAD of its affairs in any way.

2. He believed & proved that in our Vedas there was NO SUCH thing as UNTOUCHABILITY . He & through his Arya Samaj succeeded in launching a Great movement against UNTOUCHABILITY which was followed up & taken up by Gandhiji & Congress in a BIG way during our Freedom struggle & post -independence.

3. Child Marriages : In Maharishi Dayanand’s days, the child marriages were a very common factor. Maharishi Dayanand & his Arya Samaj propagated against this curse from our Hindu Society. Even now , it is prevalent in certain regions & amongst backward Hindus.

4. Maharishi Dayanand & its Arya Samaj launched yet another related curse of Hindu Society , namely, marrying more than one wife or POLYGAMY: Arya Samaj through “Magic Lantern ” Arya Pracharaks who travelled widely deep into the villages & towns successfully removed this evil from our Hindu society. (Subsequently, it was lawfully abolished under Hindu Code bill ).Still there are examples of this curse of POLYGAMY amongst our Hindus, which is spreading like a menace which requires to be controlled at all levels, specially our Politicians & Affluent class require some Ved Prachar for it.

5.AryaSamaj successfully fought with the orthodox Brahmin Community & established that there was No example in the Vedas to worship the idol as God is OMNIPOTENT , OMNI_PRESENT & FORMLESS, once it is omnipresent, it cannot be confined under lock & key any where NOR evn in their so called Temples which have become Nothing more that “Religious shops ” for the pandits.

6. Dayanand preached & pleaded with the Orthodox Hindu Community to return to Vedas in true sense & to follow its dictates. He organized to obtain the Original Vedas from Germany & translated them in simple Sanskrit & Hindi along with his famous Book , ” RIGVED BHASHYA” , “SOLAH SANSKARS”etc.

7. Swami Dayanand propagated that all people are born equal & No one is Brahmin, Vaishya, Shatriya or Shudra by birth , but these are according to the profession one chooses and each of these sects are complimentary to each other & None is superior or inferior to the other.

8.Dayanand infused a thought amongst our Hindu Society that the West has NOT contributed anything towards the emancipation of our Country’s welfare, rather the West owe to us for everything, every progress which they unjustifiably claim of theirs, including the invention of “ZERO”.

9. Dayanand strongly believed in a National Religion , based on INTENSE DEDICATED , TRUE , SELFLESS, FEARLESS NATIONALISM, a thought which he propagated amongst all the Hindus of India, preparing for Self-Rule & Freedom, based on equality ; its details are enshrined in ” SATYARTH PRAKSH” by Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati. This was his life’s greatest mission

10. Brought about widows re-marriages amongst the Hindus.

11. Pleaded & Stopped the most barbaric & most orthodox “Sati- Pratha” amongst the Hindus of our country.

12. Dayanand & Its Arya Samaj hit hard on the Blind faiths of Hindu Society & awakened them of these fake/ false Blind faiths which were spread amongst Hindu Society falsely by various orthodox Hindu organizations.

13. Shuddhi Prachaar of Dayanand Saraswati & Arya Samaj was & still the Greatest contribution to Hindu Society , thereby bringing back our brothers & sisters whom we had lost to other religions owing to our orthodox beliefs.

14. Spread of education to all irrespective of one being a boy or girl, of being a Brahmin or of other so called castes. Dayanand & its Arya Samaj played its greatest role in starting women’s Education every where in India & to every one irrespective of Caste,Creed, Sex etc.

15. In the field of Education again Maharishi Dayanand played its greatest role in strengthening Hindu Society.

16. Dayanand’s Arya Samaj opened its First Orphanage in Firozepore , followed by a chain of Orphanages all over the country so that our orphans may not adopt other religions like Islam or Christianity.

17. In the same way, Dayanand’s Arya Samaj opened Homes for the widows & Destitude womens to accommodate , train them in some useful profession & to get them married to suitable partners in course.

18. Dayanand / Arya Samaj succeeded in removing the Pardha System from our Hindu Society and Brought Hindu women at par with men-folk.

19.Dayanand launched a movement successfully that studying of Sanskrit , Vedas & Upnishidas is NOT restricted to Brahamins alone but every caste had equal Rights to study these including women-folk .

20. Dayanand & its Arya Samaj gave Rights to wear Yagopaveet to every Hindu irrespective of one’s birth.

21. In those days, any Hindu Travellers overseas, had to undergo penance & give away a lot of gifts to Orthodox Brahmins for allowing them to re-admit to Hindu Dharma, but Dayanand got rid of such ills from Orthodox Hindu Society.

22. Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati, first time, told the Hindu Society the difference of the meaning of good Governance & “own Independent Rule ” & instigated people to demand self /own independent rule & to throw away the foreign yoke of slavery of the Britrishers. Maharishi Dayanand was the First Indian who announced for the FIRST Time that Bharatvarsh is only of Bharatvasies & we should have our own Self Independent Rule.

23. Maharishi Dayanand & its Arya Samaj emphasized on Swadeshi & patronising of Swadeshi Products only amongst all the Hindu Community .

24 . If HINDI remained the main stay of our freedom struggle, it was because of Maharishi Dayanand , even today, Dayanand’s Arya Samaj can take this credit for the Promotion of Hindi as a National language all over the country .

25. Dayanand & its Arya Samaj gave to Hindu Orthodox Society , great thinkers, National Leaders & Revolutionaries like : Lala Lajpat Rai, Lokmanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Bipin Chandra Pal, Shri Arvind Ghosh, Bhai Parmanand, Bhai Shyamji Krishna Verma, Bhagat Singh, Ram Prasad Bismil, Bhai Bal Mukund, Madanlal Dhingra,Madan Mohan Malviye, Swami Shraddhanand & Pandit Lekhram & others as well as Most of the revolutionaries, who defacto brought about our Independence .

26. Dayanand & Arya Samaj always believe that begging is a worst thing , it is never liked by any one , rather it demoralizes the beggar, hence Dayanand insisted the Hindu Society as a whole to stand on its own feet , on its own good deeds & to come forward to sacrifice one’s life for the Nation .

27. Hindu Women have to pay back to Swami Dayanand Saraswati the Greatest , if he had NOT come forward to improve their Social Rights, rights to educate themselves, right to read Vedas , Upnishads, Remarriages , equal rights as per men’s , abolition of Dowry system, equal opportunity to select their partners etc.the Indian womens could never have attained their emancipation & would have remained as backword as Muslim women of the world.

And Many- many more Contributions of Arya Samaj to the HINDU Society

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
Cc: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

With all respect to Swami Dayananad but hes one of many millions of Swamis so hes not some chosen prophet like you want the rest of us to believe..Now if you had understood in what context i used James Cameron( in reaction to your comment) as an example then maybe you would have started to get out of your monotheist straitjacket but its seems even now you cant but prefer to live in ignorance   which also shows and proves why the Arya Samaj has not made no impact on the masses and is on the way out..

From: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 22:50
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

Arya Samaj considers the four Vedas as "Swatah Pramaan" - the final authority; and other Vedic books authored by great Vedic Rishis as "Paratah Praman" - the secondary authority. One may read this in the last chapter of Swami Dayananda's Satyarth-Prakash. He writes there as under:

"I hold that the four Vedas – the repository of Knowledge and Religious Truths – are the Word of God. They comprise what is known as the Samhitâ-Mantra portion only. They are absolutely free from error, and are an authority unto themselves. In other words, they do not stand in need of any other book to uphold their authority. Just as the sun (or a lamp) by its light, reveals its own nature as well as that of other objects of the universe, such as the earth – even so are the Vedas. The commentaries on the four Vedas, viz., the Brâhmanas, the six Angas, the six Upângas, the four Up-Vedas, and the eleven hundred and twenty-seven Shâkhâs, which are expositions of the Vedic texts by Brahmâ and other great Rishis – I look upon as works of a dependent character. In other words, they are held to be authoritative in so far as they conform to the teachings of the Vedas. Whatever passages in these works are opposed to the Vedic injunctions I reject them entirely."

For Arya Samaj Swami Dayananda's books are "Paratah pramaan" - and not the "Swatah Pramaan". This is the true position.

James Cameron might have used Hindu mythological theme or idea in producing his movie, (I haven't seen that movie, so not sure) and we don't dispute on that. But should he, simply for that reason, be considered as an authority in religious and philosophical matters?

If any Cristian or Muslim person is attracted towards the truth, it is always good. Same is good when any Hindu is attracted towards the truth. Sincere and honest search for truth is a great thing and should always be welcome. But idolatry, polytheism, theory of God's incarnation, the concept of the only son of God, forgiveness of sins, God's last messenger or prophet etc are not the truths. They are gross misunderstandings and superstitions.

Arya Samaj is getting popular or not is a secondary thing. The primary and important thing is whether it is sincerely engaged in its universal mission of eradication of ignorance, nescience, superstitions, dogmas, and spread of eternal message of the Vedic truths or not. 

= Bhavesh Merja

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 7:06 PM, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Conclusion:

We sincerely believe that Hinduism can still triumph world over if it follows the eternal teachings of the Vedas. And in doing so Swami Dayananda’s books like Satyarth-Prakash (The Light of Truth) could provide us immense guidance. Our intention is not to deify Swami Dayananda.

= Bhavesh Merja

So there we are.Anyone with any common sense can see clearly in that statement that Swami Dayananda and his book Satyarth Prakash are higher than the Vedas itself..

Hindu thought and ideas are already capturing the worlds imagination which is freeing itself from the cluthches of the One He God Anti Idol syndrome but the Arya Samaj wants the whole world to be brought back to it with a Vedic stamp of Approval..From Swami Vivekananda to Swami Aurobindo to Swami Prabhupada to Maharishi Yogi to Sri Sri Ravi Shanker to Satguru Shiva Subramanian Swamy and present day Hindus like Pandit Vamadev Shastri and thousands of more who have expanded Hindu thought in its various aspects around the world for the last hundred years but we dont see the Arya Samaj involved at all but then they havent even captured the imagination of the hindu masses in india then what chance have they got with the rest of the world..When Hollywoods biggest film Director 'James Cameron made Avatar the biggest hit movie in the world he had this to say on the Hindu influence on it

 "I have just loved ... the mythology, the entire Hindu pantheon, seems so rich and vivid." He continued, "I didn't want to reference the Hindu religion so closely, but the subconscious association was interesting, and I hope I haven't offended any one in doing so. He has stated that he was familiar with a lot of beliefs of the Hindu religion and found it "quite fascinating". Answering a question from Time magazine in 2007, "What is an Avatar anyway?" James Cameron replied, "It's an incarnation of one of the Hindu gods taking a flesh form. In this film what that means is that the human technology in the future is capable of injecting a human's intelligence into a remotely located body, a biological body."

Im sure it wasnt the Sathyarth Prakash that played a part in his subconscious..   because The Arya Samaj cult wants to destroy they very essence of the multiple creative beauty of Hinduism which is attracting the world to Hindu Dharma

[vivek arya]

arjun

 

i respects yogiraj krishna who had only one wife name rukmini and who practised 12 years of celibacy before giving birth.

 

read me views on respectable yogiraj shri krishna ji maharaj.

 

http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/krishna/

 

पुराणों के कृष्ण बनाम महाभारत के कृष्ण

 

कृष्ण जन्माष्टमी पर सभी हिन्दू धर्म को मानने वाले भगवान श्री कृष्ण जी महाराज को याद करते हैं. कुछ उन्हें गीता का ज्ञान देने के लिए याद करते हैं कुछ उन्हें दुष्ट कौरवों का नाश करने के लिए याद करते हैं.पर कुछ लोग उन्हें अलग तरीके से याद करते हैं.

फिल्म रेडी में सलमान खान पर फिल्माया गया गाना “कुड़ियों का नशा प्यारे,नशा सबसे नशीला है,जिसे देखों यहाँ वो,हुसन की बारिश में गीला है,इश्क के नाम पे करते सभी अब रासलीला है,मैं करूँ तो साला,Character ढीला है,मैं करूँ तो साला,Character ढीला है.”

सन २००५ में उत्तर प्रदेश में पुलिस अफसर डी के पांडा राधा के रूप में सिंगार करके दफ्तर में आने लगे और कहने लगे की मुझे कृष्ण से प्यार हो गया हैं और में अब उनकी राधा हूँ. अमरीका से उनकी एक भगत लड़की आकर साथ रहने लग गयी.उनकी पत्नी वीणा पांडा का कथन था की यह सब ढोंग हैं.

इस्कोन के संस्थापक प्रभुपाद जी एवं अमरीका में धर्म गुरु दीपक चोपरा के अनुसार ” कृष्ण को सही प्रकार से जानने के बाद ही हम वलीनतीन डे (प्रेमिओं का दिन) के सही अर्थ को जान सकते हैं.

इस्लाम को मानने वाले जो बहुपत्नीवाद में विश्वास करते हैं सदा कृष्ण जी महाराज पर १६००० रानी रखने का आरोप लगा कर उनका माखोल करते हैं.

स्वामी दयानंद अपने अमर ग्रन्थ सत्यार्थ प्रकाश में श्री कृष्ण जी महाराज के बारे में लिखते हैं की पूरे महाभारत में श्री कृष्ण के चरित्र में कोई दोष नहीं मिलता एवं उन्हें आपत पुरुष कहाँ हैं.स्वामी दयानंद श्री कृष्ण जी को महान विद्वान सदाचारी, कुशल राजनीतीज्ञ एवं सर्वथा निष्कलंक मानते हैं फिर श्री कृष्ण जी के विषय में चोर, गोपिओं का जार (रमण करने वाला), कुब्जा से सम्भोग करने वाला, रणछोड़ आदि प्रसिद्द करना उनका अपमान नहीं तो क्या हैं.श्री कृष्ण जी के चरित्र के विषय में ऐसे मिथ्या आरोप का अधर क्या हैं? इन गंदे आरोपों का आधार हैं पुराण. आइये हम सप्रमाण अपने पक्ष को सिद्ध करते हैं.

पुराण में गोपियों से कृष्ण का रमण करना

विष्णु पुराण अंश ५ अध्याय १३ श्लोक ५९,६० में लिखा हैं

वे गोपियाँ अपने पति, पिता और भाइयों के रोकने पर भी नहीं रूकती थी रोज रात्रि को वे रति “विषय भोग” की इच्छा रखने वाली कृष्ण के साथ रमण “भोग” किया करती थी. कृष्ण भी अपनी किशोर अवस्था का मान करते हुए रात्रि के समय उनके साथ रमण किया करते थे.
कृष्ण उनके साथ किस प्रकार रमण करते थे पुराणों के रचियता ने श्री कृष्ण को कलंकित करने में कोई कसर नहीं छोड़ी हैं. भागवत पुराण स्कन्द १० अध्याय ३३ शलोक १७ में लिखा हैं -

कृष्ण कभी उनका शरीर अपने हाथों से स्पर्श करते थे, कभी प्रेम भरी तिरछी चितवन से उनकी और देखते थे, कभी मस्त हो उनसे खुलकर हास विलास ‘मजाक’ करते थे.जिस प्रकार बालक तन्मय होकर अपनी परछाई से खेलता हैं वैसे ही मस्त होकर कृष्ण ने उन ब्रज सुंदरियों के साथ रमण, काम क्रीरा ‘विषय भोग’ किया.

भागवत पुराण स्कन्द १० अध्याय २९ शलोक ४५,४६ में लिखा हैं -

कृष्णा ने जमुना के कपूर के सामान चमकीले बालू के तट पर गोपिओं के साथ प्रवेश किया. वह स्थान जलतरंगों से शीतल व कुमुदिनी की सुगंध से सुवासित था. वहां कृष्ण ने गोपियों के साथ रमण बाहें फैलाना, आलिंगन करना, गोपियों के हाथ दबाना , उनकी छोटी पकरना, जांघो पर हाथ फेरना, लहंगे का नारा खींचना, स्तन (पकरना) मजाक करना नाखूनों से उनके अंगों को नोच नोच कर जख्मी करना, विनोदपूर्ण चितवन से देखना और मुस्कराना तथा इन क्रियाओं के द्वारा नवयोवना गोपिओं को खूब जागृत करके उनके साथ कृष्णा ने रात में रमण (विषय भोग) किया.

ऐसे अभद्र विचार कृष्णा जी महाराज को कलंकित करने के लिए भागवत के रचियता नें स्कन्द १० के अध्याय २९,३३ में वर्णित किये हैं जिसका सामाजिक मर्यादा का पालन करते हुए मैं वर्णन नहीं कर रहा हूँ.

राधा और कृष्ण का पुराणों में वर्णन

राधा का नाम कृष्ण के साथ में लिया जाता हैं. महाभारत में राधा का वर्णन तक नहीं मिलता. राधा का वर्णन ब्रह्मवैवर्त पुराण में अत्यंत अशोभनिय वृतांत का वर्णन करते हुए मिलता हैं.

ब्रह्मवैवर्त पुराण कृष्ण जन्म खंड अध्याय ३ शलोक ५९,६०,६१,६२ में लिखा हैं की गोलोक में कृष्ण की पत्नी राधा ने कृष्ण को पराई औरत के साथ पकर लिया तो शाप देकर कहाँ – हे कृष्ण ब्रज के प्यारे , तू मेरे सामने से चला जा तू मुझे क्यों दुःख देता हैं – हे चंचल , हे अति लम्पट कामचोर मैंने तुझे जान लिया हैं. तू मेरे घर से चला जा. तू मनुष्यों की भांति मैथुन करने में लम्पट हैं, तुझे मनुष्यों की योनी मिले, तू गौलोक से भारत में चला जा. हे सुशीले, हे शाशिकले, हे पद्मावती, हे माधवों! यह कृष्ण धूर्त हैं इसे निकल कर बहार करो, इसका यहाँ कोई काम नहीं.

ब्रह्मवैवर्त पुराण कृष्ण जन्म खंड अध्याय १५ में राधा का कृष्ण से रमण का अत्यंत अश्लील वर्णन लिखा हैं जिसका सामाजिक मर्यादा का पालन करते हुए में यहाँ विस्तार से वर्णन नहीं कर रहा हूँ.

ब्रह्मवैवर्त पुराण कृष्ण जन्म खंड अध्याय ७२ में कुब्जा का कृष्ण के साथ सम्भोग भी अत्यंत अश्लील रूप में वर्णित हैं .

राधा का कृष्ण के साथ सम्बन्ध भी भ्रामक हैं. राधा कृष्ण के बामांग से पैदा होने के कारण कृष्ण की पुत्री थी अथवा रायण से विवाह होने से कृष्ण की पुत्रवधु थी चूँकि गोलोक में रायण कृष्ण के अंश से पैदा हुआ था इसलिए कृष्ण का पुत्र हुआ जबकि पृथ्वी पर रायण कृष्ण की माता यसोधा का भाई था इसलिए कृष्ण का मामा हुआ जिससे राधा कृष्ण की मामी हुई.

कृष्ण की गोपिओं कौन थी?

पदम् पुराण उत्तर खंड अध्याय २४५ कलकत्ता से प्रकाशित में लिखा हैं की रामचंद्र जी दंडक -अरण्य वन में जब पहुचें तो उनके सुंदर स्वरुप को देखकर वहां के निवासी सारे ऋषि मुनि उनसे भोग करने की इच्छा करने लगे. उन सारे ऋषिओं ने द्वापर के अंत में गोपियों के रूप में जन्म लिया और रामचंद्र जी कृष्ण बने तब उन गोपियों के साथ कृष्ण ने भोग किया. इससे उन गोपियों की मोक्ष हो गई. वर्ना अन्य प्रकार से उनकी संसार

रुपी भवसागर से मुक्ति कभी न होती.
क्या गोपियों की उत्पत्ति का दृष्टान्त बुद्धि से स्वीकार किया जा सकता हैं?

श्री कृष्ण जी महाराज का वास्तविक रूप

अभी तक हम पुराणों में वर्णित गोपियों के दुलारे, राधा के पति, रासलीला रचाने वाले कृष्ण के विषय में पढ़ रहे थे जो निश्चित रूप से असत्य हैं.

अब हम योगिराज, निति निपुण , महान कूटनीतिज्ञ श्री कृष्ण जी महाराज के विषय में उनके सत्य रूप को जानेगे.

आनंदमठ एवं वन्दे मातरम के रचियता बंकिम चन्द्र चटर्जी जिन्होंने ३६ वर्ष तक महाभारत पर अनुसन्धान कर श्री कृष्ण जी महाराज पर उत्तम ग्रन्थ लिखा ने कहाँ हैं की महाभारत के अनुसार श्री कृष्ण जी की केवल एक ही पत्नी थी जो की रुक्मणी थी, उनकी २ या ३ या १६००० पत्नियाँ होने का सवाल ही पैदा नहीं होता. रुक्मणी से विवाह के पश्चात श्री कृष्ण रुक्मणी के साथ बदरिक आश्रम चले गए और १२ वर्ष तक तप एवं ब्रहमचर्य का पालन करने के पश्चात उनका एक पुत्र हुआ जिसका नाम प्रदुमन था. यह श्री कृष्ण के चरित्र के साथ अन्याय हैं की उनका नाम १६००० गोपियों के साथ जोड़ा जाता हैं. महाभारत के श्री कृष्ण जैसा अलोकिक पुरुष , जिसे कोई पाप नहीं किया और जिस जैसा इस पूरी पृथ्वी पर कभी-कभी जन्म लेता हैं. स्वामी दयानद जी सत्यार्थ प्रकाश में वहीँ कथन लिखते हैं जैसा बंकिम चन्द्र चटर्जी ने कहाँ हैं. पांड्वो द्वारा जब राजसूय यज्ञ किया गया तो श्री कृष्ण जी महाराज को यज्ञ का सर्वप्रथम अर्घ प्रदान करने के लिए सबसे ज्यादा उपर्युक्त समझा गया जबकि वहां पर अनेक ऋषि मुनि , साधू महात्मा आदि उपस्थित थे.वहीँ श्री कृष्ण जी महाराज की श्रेष्ठता समझे की उन्होंने सभी आगंतुक अतिथियो के धुल भरे पैर धोने का कार्य भार लिया. श्री कृष्ण जी महाराज को सबसे बड़ा कूटनितिज्ञ भी इसीलिए कहा जाता हैं क्यूंकि उन्होंने बिना हथियार उठाये न केवल दुष्ट कौरव सेना का नाश कर दिया बल्कि धर्म की राह पर चल रहे पांडवो को विजय भी दिलवाई.

ऐसे महान व्यक्तित्व पर चोर, लम्पट, रणछोर, व्यभिचारी, चरित्रहीन , कुब्जा से समागम करने वाला आदि कहना अन्याय नहीं तो और क्या हैं और इस सभी मिथ्या बातों का श्रेय पुराणों को जाता हैं.

इसलिए महान कृष्ण जी महाराज पर कोई व्यर्थ का आक्षेप न लगाये एवं साधारण जनों को श्री कृष्ण जी महाराज के असली व्यक्तित्व को प्रस्तुत करने के लिए पुराणों का बहिष्कार आवश्यक हैं और वेदों का प्रचार आती आवश्यक हैं.

और फिर भी अगर कोई न माने तो उन पर यह लोकोक्ति लागु होती हैं-

जब उल्लू को दिन में न दिखे तो उसमें सूर्य का क्या दोष हैं?

 

 

 

 

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
Cc: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: swami dayanand and his contribution to hindu solidarity

dont give me your big quotes of wisdom when you have no wisdom yourself..Your comments on Krishna itself shows what hidden perversions lie within you..Maybe you should change your quote on your agniveer website to unleash the perversion inside ..You think all the other swamis and reformers havent contributed to Hindu society and continue to do so ?.Swami Dayananda is one of many and maybe thats what you need to get into your thick skull that there is a world beyond your tiny dying cult of the Arya Samaj...This write up is totally blown out of proportion because most of Hindu society hasnt even been affected by the Arya Samaj as they were only active in some parts and now are dying away.. .The arya samaj has become the useful idiot for the real monotheists who want to convert hindus to their religions because they use Arya Samaj quotes and passages to show that hindus are confused in their beliefs ..So  instead of living off the reputation of the past arya samajis why dont you show some bravery and go and fight yourself

[vivek arya]

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Arun Kumar <arun_...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011 2:37 PM

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

i wouldnt unleash the legend right yet like a fool especially one who cant see beyond the ONE HE God .Even in English you dont have to use HE just like One to define God so lets not try to be too clever but then saying that the Arya Samaj are a bunch of monotheist retards then what to expect..Now apart from believing theres people living on the Sun and reading the Vedas here's some more from you holy book The Sathyarth Prakash

दयानन्द मठ दीनानगर से प्रकाशित तथा आचार्य प्रिटिंग प्रैस दयानन्द मठ गोहाना मार्ग रोहतक से मुद्रित के पृष्ठ 70 से 103 तक की कुछ झलक

• 1. 16 वर्ष की कन्या 25 वर्ष का वर यह विवाह समय निकृष्ट अर्थात् घटिया है। (ख) 20 वर्ष की स्त्री और 40वर्ष का पुरूष का योग काम चलाऊ अर्थात् मध्यम है। (ग) 24 वर्ष की स्त्री तथा 48 वर्ष के पुरूष का विवाह समय उत्तम है। महर्षि दयानन्द जी का भावार्थ है कि 24 वर्ष की स्त्री तथा 48 वर्ष के पुरूष का विवाह तथा उपरोक्त नियमों के अनुसार नहीं किया जाता वह देश खुशहाल नहीं हो सकता।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati marriage between a 16 year old girl and a 25 year old man is of inferior quality. Marriage between a 20 year old girl and a 40 year old man is of medium quality whereas marriage between a 24 year old girl and a 48 year old is of utmost quality. According to him a country where this is not followed, that country can never prosper.

 

 

explanation- these age limits are mentioned in manu smriti and swami dayanand had quoted from manu smriti. if a person practice strict celibacy he body will remain like a youth of 20s even at 48th year of life. if you are critisizing swami dayanand then you are critisizing manu rishi also. 

the main message of swami ji is to promote celibacy which all of knows is essence of hinduism for a pious and self control life.

 

 

• 2. जिस कुल में किसी के बवासीर, मिर्गी, क्षय, दमा, खांसी आदि रोग है, तथा किसी के शरीर पर बड़े-बड़े बाल है उस पूरे कुल की लड़की व लड़के से विवाह नहीं करना चाहिए।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati one should not marry a boy or a girl from a sept which has diseases like piles, epilepsy, tuberculosis, asthma, cough etc. and those with big hair on their body.

explanation- being a child specialist i can very well explain you about genetic pattern of diseases like asthma, epilepsy, gonadal syndromes etc how they run in families to next generation offsprings. go and ask some non aryasamaji  medical doctor who will agree about these medical facts.

 

 

• 3. जिस लड़की का नाम गंगा, जमुना, सरस्वती, आदि नदियों पर है तथा काली नाम तथा भूरे नेत्रों वाली हो उससे विवाह न करना चाहिए (सौंण व कुसौंण का भी पूरा ध्यान रखा है) जिस लड़की की चाल हथनी व हंस जैसी हो तथा नाम यशोदा आदि हो उससे विवाह करें।
  
   
• According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati one should not marry a girl whose name is derived from rivers like Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswati etc. or is called Kali, or has brown eyes. One should marry such a girl which has a gait like a female elephant or a swan and has name like Yashodha etc.

 

 

explanation- recently a movie came dabanng with  a sing munni badnam hui and other was sheila ki jawani , in pune two sisters with name munni and sheila have to change their residence because of eve teasing by these two names.

 

in similar way with movie song bhag bhag d k bose a boy from bengal was teased by friends. he changes his name.

 

the above lines written 125 years back echos same message why names should not be placed mimicing river.

for eg a person says ajj to mein jamuna naha kar aya and his friends wife name is jamuna it will give double meaning message.

 

 

 

 

4. सत्यार्थ प्रकाश समुल्लास 4 पृष्ट 102 पर यह भी लिखा है कि जिस स्त्री का पति जीवित है वह दूर देश में रोजगार के लिए गया हो तो उसकी स्त्री तीन वर्ष तक बाट (प्रतिक्षा) देखकर किसी अन्य पुरूष से संतान उत्पत्ति नियोग कुकर्म से करले, जब पति घर आये तो नियोग किए पति को त्याग दे तथा उस गैर संतान का गोत्र भी विवाहित पति वाला ही माना जाएगा।

Swami Dayanand Saraswati says in Satyarth Prakash, samullas 4 on page 102 that a woman whose husband is alive and has gone abroad due to purposes of work, then that woman after waiting for three years can produce a child from some other man. Then on return of the real husband that woman should renounce the temporary husband and go back to her real husband. Along with that the children produced from the temporary husband will share the same family name as that of the real husband.

 

 

explanation- this was practice of niyog mentioned in vedas as well as practised in mahabharta , vidur, dhrishtra as well as pandu all 3 were born by niyog with rishi vishwamitra as their fathers were incapable of bearing offsprings. this was a sort of surrogate sperm donation .its an emergency practice.

 

even today surrogate sperm / ovem donation is done in all parts of world.

 

 

• 5. जिस पुरूष की पत्नी अप्रिय बोलने वाली हो तो उस पुरूष को चाहिए कि किसी अन्य स्त्री से केवल नियोग करके संतान उत्पति करले तथा रहे अपनी पत्नी के साथ ही। इसी प्रकार जो पुरूष अत्यन्त दुःखदायक हो तो उसकी स्त्री भी दूसरे पुरूष से नियोग से संतान उत्पति करके उसी विवाहित पति के दायभागी संतान कर लेवे।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati, a man whose wife has a quarrelsome nature should produce children from some other woman but should continue to reside with his actual wife. Likewise if a husband of a woman is quarrelsome then she should produce children from some other man.

above explanation- IBID

 

• 6. यदि किसी की स्त्री को आठ वर्ष तक संतान न हो तो वह पुरूष किसी अन्य स्त्री से नियोग (दुष्कर्म)करके संतान उत्पन्न कर ले। उस संतान को अपने घर ल आवे। जिसकी पत्नी से कन्या उत्पन्न होती हो लड़का उत्पन्न न होता हो तो वह पुरूष अन्य स्त्री से नियोग करके लड़का उत्पन्न करके घर ले आवे।
  
  According to Swami Dayanand Saraswati, if a woman is unable to produce an offspring following eight years of marriage, then that woman's husband should produce children from some other woman and bring them home. If a woman is unable to produce a boy and is only producing daughters then that woman's husband should produce a boy from some other woman and then bring him home.

above explanation- IBID

 

7. पृष्ठ 103 पर लिखा है:- स्त्री के गर्भ रहने के पश्चात् एक वर्ष तक स्त्री पुरूष मिलन नहीं करें। यदि पुरूष से न रहा जाए तो किसी विधवा स्त्री से नियोग (पशु तुल्य कर्म) करके संतान उत्पति कर दें।

Swami Dayanand Saraswati says in Satyarth Prakash, on page 103 that once a wife becomes pregnant, husband and wife should not have sex. If the husband is unable to resist then he should have sex with some widow and produce children.

I WILL GIVE YOU 1000 US$ IF YOU SHOW ME THIS LINE यदि पुरूष से न रहा जाए तो किसी विधवा स्त्री से नियोग (पशु तुल्य कर्म) करके संतान उत्पति कर दें IN SATYARTH PRAKASH.

 

IF YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO SHOW ME THEN PISS OVER YOUR OWN FACE FOR SPREADING HATE AND UNTRUTH.

 

INSPITE OF LIVING OUTSIDE INDIA YOUR BEHAVIOUS IS LIKE EDUCATED ILLITRATE.

 

DR VIVEK ARYA

[Arjun]

dont give me your big quotes of wisdom when you have no wisdom yourself..Your comments on Krishna itself shows what hidden perversions lie within you..Maybe you should change your quote on your agniveer website to unleash the perversion inside ..You think all the other swamis and reformers havent contributed to Hindu society and continue to do so ?.Swami Dayananda is one of many and maybe thats what you need to get into your thick skull that there is a world beyond your tiny dying cult of the Arya Samaj...This write up is totally blown out of proportion because most of Hindu society hasnt even been affected by the Arya Samaj as they were only active in some parts and now are dying away.. .The arya samaj has become the useful idiot for the real monotheists who want to convert hindus to their religions because they use Arya Samaj quotes and passages to show that hindus are confused in their beliefs ..So  instead of living off the reputation of the past arya samajis why dont you show some bravery and go and fight yourself

---

From: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>

To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
Cc: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011, 3:30
Subject: swami dayanand and his contribution to hindu solidarity

[Arjan Daswani]

02 Nov 2011

 

Dear Vivek Ji

I am 80y+ and if I lives 5 months more I would complete 81 years.  I have majority of ailments that an old man can have.  My eyes are not in a good shape too.It is for that I have been avoiding to read and heed these hundreds of emails under Desiyatra each day. But your email attracted me and I love to read what you have written.  I have never been a big reader but what I write here is what I learned and understood in practical life.   My persons beliefs are:

 

1. God is but one.  God is neither he nor she but according what I have always focused on "God is but multitude and vast ocean of "LOVE,LIGHT and TRUTH".  One may medicate on God in any shape or size as suits one. If the medication is sincere and great the worshipper may perceive God in the shape he or she meditated on.  I he or she sees the shape a little different from what meditated on, it is my belief that the meditation lacked the quality of concentration.  Once a Bhakta perceives God in the shape, the ever merciful will take the Bhakta to the realms of LOVE LIGHT AND TRUTH.  

 

2. I simply believe that the word "Religion" has noting to do with the case or creed.  In my view "Religion" just means "Righteousness:

 

3. i strongly believe the truth in the following verses from Bhagwat Gita

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham

4. I do not believe these verses just because they are written in Bhagwat Gita.  But I have this to say for my belief:

 

In my life several people have tried to fickle my mind as they thought I do not have strong Will of my own; they tried to induce me to other paths.  Shaken, I really cried and prayed before sleeping saying "God, please tell me what is real truth".  Believe me "Lord Krishna came to my dream and He went on changing His face from ONE incarnation to another; I saw at least five to six faces in succession and at the end He told me "I am but ONE Arjune, do not get confused". Next time people wanted to use influence on me saying this and that about other paiths.  I cried again and prayed and went to sleep.  Miraculously Lord Krishna came to me second time with the same scene and the same message.  After that no one can shake me.  Whether you call me Hindu or Muslim or Christian, I am not disturbed because Krishna told me that He is just one and comes in different shapes, size and places at several times where needed the most.  I see no difference in Muslim Hindu or Christian except their own confusion. 

 

5. My opinion is that when Incarnations come, they do not create another Religion name but just teach the righteousness suited at the time and the followers, after the Incarnate is gone, begin to make new Religion names according to their own fancies. 

 

6. Even now a days people come to knock my door and try to induce me into Christianity; when I tell them I am Hindu, they try to induce me to Christianity.  When I tell them "I am Christian, they try to induce me to come to the Church.  But when I tell them "I am Muslim, they run away and never show their face again.  It is because they know MUSLIMS are more STRICT AND THEIR ONE CRY "ISLAM KHATRE MEIN HAI" will cause Riots all around. 

I loved your article. Please forget about those who do not believe in what you write with proofs of passages.  I believe they will realize the truth when their thoughts are more positive. In writing that I have no intention of hurting any one and I apologie if anyone feels so.

 

I do not believe I can engage myself into these circles of emails because I have bad eye sight.

 

Please forgive if there are spelling errors. Thanks.

 

My loves for all.

arjan Daswani Singapore 

[vivek arya]

arjun

 

you are confused and confusing others also.

 

read the hindi interpretation of mantra it mentions

 

 अथर्ववेद १३.४ (२), १५-२०- जो व्यक्ति इस परमात्मा देव को एक रूप में विद्यमान जनता हैं, जो की वह न दूसरा हैं, न तीसरा हैं और न चौथा हैं ऐसा जानता हैं, जोकि वह पांचवा हैं, न छठा हैं और न सांतवा हैं ऐसा जानता हैं, जोकि वह न आठवां हैं, न नवां हैं और न दसवां हैं ऐसा जानता हैं, वह सब कुछ जानता हैं. वह चेतन और अचेतन संपूर्ण रहस्य को जन लेता हैं. उसी परमात्मा देव में यह सारा जगत समाया हुआ हैं. वह देव अत्यंत सहन शक्ति वाला हैं. वह एक ही हैं, अकेला ही वर्तमान हैं, वह एक ही हैं.

 

word वह is mentioned for the god in te mantra.

 

 

now its limitations of english language that if we tranlslate this word as "he" then ignorant like you interpretate the almighty god as male and again gets confused.

 

by the way its not your fault.

 

its bad impact of krishna kunja sexual encounter on your brain that you can nedd some adult stuff in vedic mantra but sorry vedas do not promote adultry as mentioned in fake texts like puranas whom you considers as holy? books.

 

 

LOOOOL

 

DR VIVEK ARYA

 

 

 

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Arun Kumar <arun_...@yahoo.com>; vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

well thanks for that but now you have proved also there is no One god either because One is just generic term/definition just like HE which the Arya Samaj have confused as monothiesm...

From: Arun Kumar <arun_...@yahoo.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 7:20
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

God has no gender. in Vedas he has been described by all three genders. People use the word He for God and that is limitation in the language.

BTW, do you know that there are lot of words in Sanskrit language they represent a feminine word but they are used as pulling in Sanskrit grammar. and similarly there are words which represents a masculine object but when used in Sanskrit language their vibhakti rupas are made in striling.

Thanks

Arun

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>
Cc: Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

again you will be asked with your so called evidence..Is this One god a He ?

[Prem Sabhlok]

Rig Veda 1-72-2 and 8 mentions that the greatest service to God is to spread the spirit of Vedas with honesty, straight-forwardness, without deceit of any kind, for all to enjoy true and spiritual happiness. By understanding the philosophy, metaphysics, knowledge and various models contained in the Vedas, we can perhaps find viable solutions to our present social, economic, political and religious problems.

 

The study of Vedas is the supreme virtue. (Bhagavad-Gita)

 

It is high Time Vedic thoughts, teachings and guidelines reach each and every house/home to save mankind from self destruction and also to revive Vedic Civilization to assist the Supreme Reality in the maintenance of Thy Grand wondrous Design.

 

The Supreme Reality as described in Vedas

In the Vedas the Universal God (Brahman) is formless, ineffable (nirguna) and Unmoved Mover. As Sankracharya says, “to describe Brahman even the words recoil.”
However, based on the Vedic metaphysics whatever description of God is given, it can at best be a glimpse of His omnipresence, omniscience and omnipotence.  He makes Himself felt whether as Adrsta - unseen cosmic power or the Supreme Reality as impersonal God. It is mainly because human senses and reason cannot analyze Him.

 

Rig-Veda 1-164-46 and Y.V 32-1 clearly mention that God is “One”; wise men call Brahman by different names. The souls in all human beings are the subtle particles (ansh) of the same Supreme Soul- Paramatma.

 

Since the entire cosmos and universe both visible and invisible continues to expand and is described as Brahamand so the Vedic metaphysicists and wise sages (rsis and munnies) found an appropriate epithet for the nameless God as Brahman.  In the Rig Veda He is also mentioned as Vishnu- one who spread in Viswa. In Yajur and Atharva Vedas epithets for God are mentioned as Shiva, Shankar Brahma and Shambhu- pure and  auspicious.
 
Upanishads describe Nirguna Brahma- the ineffable God as, “Whole is that, whole too is this and from the whole, whole cometh and take whole, yet whole remains."
 
A few Vedic hymns can be mentioned for proper understanding of Nirguna Brahma who is the Universal God.
 Rig Veda 6-15-13, 14 mentions that He is a pure illuminator, unifier, remover of all miseries, commands all to observe non-violence and other rules of righteousness, which are a-priori principles beyond any sense experiences.
 
Rig-Veda 6-47-18 says that for each form, He is the Model. It is His Forms that are to be seen everywhere, in spiritual and material things. His Spirit exists in all animate and inanimate life/things but is manifest in the human beings where God dwells in their hearts (Sama Veda 860). A similar description that He dwells in the human hearts is also there in Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad Bahgavatam.  Rig Veda 1-9-5 and 6 mentions that God is the Lord of knowledge, infinite wisdom and material wealth. He pervades the matter and the whole space (A.V.19-20-2). Hence matter is not inert and has unsuspected vitality. Therefore excessive use of matter is a sin.
 
 All the four Vedas describe that He and His cosmic laws (Rta) are the same. Those who follow His laws and commandments can realize Him in one birth. He is unborn (ajo) and incarnation of God as a human being is not visualised (Y.V.34-53, 40-8 and A.V. 10-23-4). He lives within you and you live within Him as one of His tiny living cells.
 

Nevertheless, the highest concept of divine mercy is reached that HE permits His children all things to be said about Him even if you do not believe in Him. Thus, toleration is an important teaching of Vedic metaphysics. Vedic hymns clearly mention that He is at your disposal but on His terms and not your terms. He expects you not to disturb violently His Design of the earth and the universe.

 

Every thing belongs to Him, we use it only temporarily, whether it is food, air, water and He expects all of us not to over use these (Sama Veda 274). We should keep wealth and all material possessions only for our preservation lest we become exploiters by taking away some one else’s share. Sama Veda 274 clearly advises need-based living.
According to Rig Veda 10-90-13 to 17, the entire universe is His body. Sun and Moon are His eyes, Earth is His feet and Heaven is His head. Our eyes can see 1/4th of Brahamand (entire cosmos within and beyond visual range). He acts by the necessity of His nature. His decrees are eternal truths and with dedicated and transcendental research, all these truths can be found out for the welfare of self, society and mankind

Yajur Veda 40-5 tells us that He is within the entire universe and surrounds it externally. For those who want to realise Him, they have to follow the path of moderation, righteousness and cosmic laws of necessity (Rta), which are permanent truths and His Commandments. Kena Upanishad 2-5 mentions that God can be realised in one life. If you do not realise in one life, you are a great loser.

 

The most beautiful description of Brahma is given in the Vedantic School of Indian philosophy, based on Upanishads. There was neither being nor not being, neither vayu (air) nor akash (ether) which is beyond...neither death nor immortality existed, no distinction was yet between day and night, darkness was first concealed in darkness and all this was indiscriminate chaos. In that stage of shuniya (cosmic void), apart from that nothing was there whatsoever. It was when desire as the perennial germ of the mind arose for the first time and the entire cosmos was born out of cosmic Golden Egg (Hiranya garbha). The One, which was covered by cosmic Void (shuniya), was manifested through the light of Tapas (spiritual fire) (R.V X-129-1 to 3).

Thus the One Lord of all that moves and that is fixed, of what walks, what flies became the Lord of all this multiform creation (R.V. III-54-8).

 

The Cosmic Word OM becomes the raft of knowledge. According to Yajur Veda XL-17, this word OM is Brahma Itself. "OM Khamma Brahma"- OM Thy name is Brahma. Through this Word, He not only created Prakrti and Universe but also protects the same with the divine energy coming out of Shabad Brahma. This cosmic word OM is from the root Ava (to protect).

His all Forms are supreme in design and beauty. As He pervades every where and all material objects are His manifestations, so in this phenomenal world, we can see Him through many forms like the Sun, Moon, mountains, sea and even human beings etc., but He remains Formless. Thus His forms are His creative art Maya (R.V. VI-45-16, VI-47-18. S.V. 1710 and A.V. VI- 36-3). As God’s attributes are infinite being ineffable, the hymns at best only give glimpses of His attributes.

Those who believe in one formless and ineffable God, invariably follow the philosophy of Vedic Iddm Nan Mam- nothing for self all for society.

The believers of One God are invariably transparent and follow the path of truth and non-violence in thought and action.

 

It is thus quite apparent for the entire mankind that movement is generally towards pluralism, animism, fanaticism, fundamentalism, gurudom, kingdom of priests and extreme materialism. It is for the mankind to decide to live without His divine guidance owing to the vehement effect of Maya- a huge cosmic saw with sharp teeth OR to pass through the gap between these teeth and seek the only One Supreme Realty and remain under His divine guidance by following His commandments and laws. All the main scriptures of major religions have confirmed based on transcendental research that He is pure love, merciful, benevolent and perfect knowledge. Knowing Him is bliss and not knowing Him is ignorance and misery.
For more details about Vedic God kindly read chapter 8 of “Glimpses of Vedic Metaphysics” for on line reading/taking print at no cost on Website
http://www.sabhlokcity.com/metaphysics. The book can also be accessed through google.com, yahoo.com and lulu.com. Kindly render divine social service and forward this e-mail to the seekers of Vedic knowledge.
With kind regard,
Prem Sabhlok

 

P.S

Kindly feel free to improve this Vedic message strictly based on Veda mantra/riks/hymns.

 

---

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:07:56 +0000
From: arjun...@yahoo.co.uk

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

To: drviv...@yahoo.com; arun_...@yahoo.com; bcm...@gmail.com; bhano...@gmail.com
CC: arr...@ameritech.net; gchatt...@gmail.com; shyam_n...@yahoo.com; satish...@yahoo.com; psab...@hotmail.com; hita...@gmail.com; kata...@aol.com; sadhak_...@yahoo.com; jitender...@gmail.com; kri...@hindupedia.com; shankara...@yahoo.com; london...@yahoo.co.uk; tinasa...@yahoo.com; irmamuns...@gmail.com; sande...@hotmail.com; ani...@yahoo.co.uk; govind...@hotmail.com; rishi...@hotmail.com; ranbir...@talktalk.net; culturalbri...@yahoo.com; tcgm...@hotmail.com; vyshv...@gmail.com; live_by...@yahoo.co.uk; drmna...@yahoo.co.uk; rsin...@yahoo.com; brah...@yahoo.com; aryasam...@yahoogroups.com; aryayou...@yahoogroups.com; bhagav...@yahoo.ca; akansh...@yahoo.com; arya...@hotmail.com; mish...@aol.com; msb...@yahoo.com; naveen...@yahoo.co.in; jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in; puneet...@gmail.com; ashwini...@yahoo.ca; eka...@btinternet.com; jayasw...@gmail.com; as_...@rediffmail.com; baksh...@yahoo.com; skan...@gmail.com; op.t...@gmail.com; bharat...@gmail.com; ahven...@gmail.com; gir...@aryasamaj.com; desi...@googlegroups.com; vijaya...@yahoo.com; ashoks...@rediffmail.com; satyar...@gmail.com; vsg...@yahoo.com; arya.v...@gmail.com; kcg...@yahoo.com; su_...@ymail.com; ajaya...@gmail.com; rajpa...@yahoo.com; agni...@gmail.com

[Arjun]

i can give u many praises on Mohammed by various important non muslims so whats your point ? That i should accept Swami Dayananda as the last messenger and only messenger and saviour of Hinduism ? Ive already mentioned that he along with many swamis have contributed to the  hindu cause in the past /present and in the future.I mentioned various swamis from various sects even though some of their teachings i dont agree with but i see the bigger picture of Sanathan Dharma where its diversity is its greatest strength and the reason why it survived something you and your fellow Arya Samajis cant see but want everyone to follow your anti idol, one he god, one messenger , one book and the only way  which the Arya Samaj way but worse you think somehow you can unite Hindus..Anyone can see clearly i stand for unity and not confused disunity by pushing one One belief on everyone...

---

From: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011, 5:41

Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

Sri Arjun ji,
You are free to judge Maharshi Dayananda in your own way. But in one of your recent posts you mentioned name of Sri Aurobindo. Have you ever read what he has written about the greatness and unique contribution of Dayananda? I don't recommend right now you to read it. But if you read it in future I request you to at least inform me about your assessment of this writing of Sri Aurobindo.
= Bhavesh Merja 

[ranjeet singh]

Would you please very kindly quote the Mantra for our ready reference?   Dr. Ranjeet Singh --- On Wed, 2/11/11, vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Arjun]

The fact is if the Arya samaj had it their way we wouldnt be seeing this or any influence of hinduism around the world

Foreigners flock to Haridwar for love of Hinduism

IANS | Nov 2, 2011, 12.59PM IST

Article

Comments (1)

Read more:Russia|Religion|orthodox|Hinduism|Church|christianity

1

Foreigners flock to Haridwar for love of Hinduism (Thinkstock photos/Getty Images)

They come here from Russia, Malaysia, Belarus, South Korea and the US, lured by Hinduism which they say answers questions that have plagued them for years.

The eclectic nature of the Hindu religion - one of the world's oldest - has attracted foreigners from time immemorial. However, those enticed by it now are no more the dope-smoking hippy variety of the 1970s.

Foreigners flocking to Haridwar, one of the holiest Hindu holy spots, are mostly the educated, both men and women, from all parts of the globe, and have a spiritual commitment that amazes many Indians.

Moscow resident Victor Shevtsov, who at 56 looks at least a decade younger, explained why Russians like him have taken to Hinduism in such large numbers.

"Today the Orthodox Church in Russia is like the old Communist rulers," the tour operator said. "They don't allow questions. They don't reply to questions. You have to obey them. This repels many."

A fan of Indian religious philosophy, Shevtsov said in fluent English: "Many Russians are coming here because they don't have answers (to their questions) in Orthodox Christianity.

"Here, in India and in the East, religious leaders talk to you, they answer questions."

Fellow Russian Prokhor Bashkatov, a 37-year-old real estate agent, also blamed the Russian Church for his decision to embrace Hinduism.

"The Church is too rigid," said the Russian who can't understand or speak English. "It is not keeping pace with the time. I feel that my coming here is going to improve relations between Russia and India."

Both Victor and Prokhor have close links with Gayatri Parivar, a grassroots group that is organising a mammoth event here Nov 6-10 with a view to propagating the sacred 'Gayatri Mantra'.

Dmitri Kozhemyakin, in his 20s and from Belarus, has another view. He feels that the Church traditions are similar to the Vedic teachings. "And we are part of the Aryan culture too," he added.

Like so many foreigners, Dasom Her, a 22-year-old South Korean who studies here, was floored after reading "Autobiography of a Yogi", a gem in spiritual literature that Paramhansa Yogananda authored in 1946 and which still sells.

India, Hindu ethos and yoga had always attracted her parents, who met at a yoga class in South Korea and fell in love. When her father died, her mother decided to move to India with Dasom.

After spending time in Kolkata and Santiniketan, where she mastered Bengali, the daughter and mother moved to Haridwar where both study at the Dev Sanskriti Vishwavidyala.

"My mother decided that India is where I will learn the values of life," said Dasom, her hands decorated with henna.

Pranav Pandya, who heads the Gayatri Parivar, says there is more than one reason why foreigners take to Hinduism.

"Meditation has done wonders," Pandya said. "It has provided many foreigners quiet and tranquil lives. Many have accepted 'Gayatri Mantra' too as their own."

The foremost mantra in Hinduism, its chanting is said to remove obstacles and increase spiritual growth. Its syllables are said to positively affect all the chakras, or energy centres, in the human body.

Do the families of foreigners accept their gravitation to the Hindu religion?

Some families are very supportive, others not so. Said Russia's Bashkatov: "Slowly and slowly my family is accepting my interest in Hinduism."

---

From: Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>

To: Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>
Cc: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>; Rabinder Koul <arr...@ameritech.net>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2011, 8:03
Subject: Re: IS THERE POLYTHEISM IN VEDAS?

[Arjun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlT1IXSv830&feature=player_embedded#!

---

From: ranjeet singh <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: vivek arya <drviv...@yahoo.com>
Cc: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; Arun Kumar <arun_...@yahoo.com>; Bhavesh Merja <bcm...@gmail.com>; Anil Bhanot <bhano...@gmail.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; Agniveer <agni...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011, 5:44

[Dirgha Raj Prasai]

Please read and release the story of Fake Christion's religion who is
dancing against the Vedic-Hindus in all over the world.

.Dear editor and readers including Indian leaders and Govt. !

The seven-point agreement on integrating Nepalese Maoist combatants is
only a drama.To congratulate the the nonesense political parties will
be samefull becauae the Indian Govt.Congress-(I) and leaders including
Nepalese so-called party leaders have lost their credibility.

Nepal and India do not want any kind of communist authoritarianism;
they aspire only to full democracy. The concerns of both countries are
political stability, peace and good governance. It is because only a
good and well-established political system can lead the public by
determining appropriate social and economic management of the state
through concrete policies and programmers. So, both nations are
interested in a democratic system. But, the Maoists of Nepal and India
want any democratic government to step down and be replaced by one led
by themselves. Then why are the Indian politicians and diplomats
supporting the anarchist groups?
The creator of the Maoist rebellion was Girija. After 1992, in the
name of annihilating Masal-Communists (later called the Maoists)
murder, suppression, and rape crossed the limit. In revenge, Maoists
systematically killed thousands of civilians, police and army
personnel. Millions worth of physical infrastructures were destroyed
or burned. And since 2005, Girija (leader of NC) joined hands with the
Maoists. JNU Prof -S.D.Muni, the strategist of RAW had given the
12-point anti-Nepal agendas of the Republic, Secularism and Federal
states to the perverted leaders of the parties and a few lawyers,
doctors, and journalists to end the existence of Nepal. The Pm of
Nepal-Maoist Baburam Bhattarai and Prachanda both are suspicious and
brokesr. They are not resposible in their commitments. Then, why India
lifted such traitors to destroy the unity and identity of Nepal ?
The creator of the Maoist rebellion was Girija. After 1992, in the
name of annihilating Masal-Communists (later called the Maoists)
murder, suppression, and rape crossed the limit. In revenge, Maoists
systematically killed thousands of civilians, police and army
personnel. Millions worth of physical infrastructures were destroyed
or burned. And since 2005, Girija (leader of NC) joined hands with the
Maoists. JNU Prof -S.D.Muni, the strategist of RAW had given the
12-point anti-Nepal agendas of the Republic, Secularism and Federal
states to the perverted leaders of the parties and a few lawyers,
doctors, and journalists to end the existence of Nepal.
I am sorry to write that it was a great blunder of Indian diplomats-
Shyam Saran- former Indian ambassador and former foreign Secretary of
India (who is widely credited with bringing the present instability in
Nepal), and Sive Shankar Mukharejee, former foreign minister, KB
Rajan- former Indian ambassador, Rakesh Sood-present ambassador,
Prof.SD Muni (RAW strategist) and other officials who not only
blundered in their assessment of the Maoists but also did much harm to
Indian’s interests in Nepal. Among diplomats, Shyam Saran is a very
ambitious diplomat who could not calculate the good result. In this
context president of India’s Janata Dal Sharad Yadav has criticized
Indian Ambassador to Nepal Rakesh Sood that the incumbent Indian
ambassador has crossed his limits. Indian policy in Nepal is the right
direction. We wish to see good relationship between India and Nepal
and that the misunderstandings are resolved.’
Now, the Nepalese Maoists, RIM and COMPOSA have been joining together
for a one-party system - Communism. Due to the blunders of the culprit
Nepalese leaders and the Indian diplomats, nationality and democracy
of both countries is in danger. I think, due to the Indian Maoist
(Naksalite) the Indian security force is becoming weaker day by day.
An American scholar Thomas A. Marks writes-’Indian Gov. (Congress I)
is also suffering from the Maoist in north- eastern India Almost 14
states experienced some sort of Maoist violence, with 170 of the
country’s 602 districts affected. The principal local militant groups
combined in 2004 to form the Communist Party of India (Maoist).
Regional links with international sympathizers have allowed the
insurgents to frame the conflict as a struggle for social justice
waged by recruits drawn overwhelmingly from marginalized tribal
groups. More useful to these would-be revolutionaries than Maoism as a
goal has been people’s war as an approach to seize state power. In
strategic terms, people’s war is the formation of a new counter-state
to challenge the existing state. For this reason, it is a disastrous
mistake to think of the approach as a variant of guerrilla warfare.
Even inspired by politics, guerrilla war remains a tactic, and is not
what Mao was talking about.’
A prominent journalist Pushpa Raj Pradhan, editor of the People’s
Review, writes: “The Indian Embassy in Kathmandu is spending 57
billion rupees per years under the ‘ Small Grant Project.’ Out of the
total of FM radios, 50 percent of them are receiving such Indian
grants. Similarly, some Christian missions have also funded those FM
radios just to broadcast Christian programmed. India wants the
Indianization of Nepal and the Christians want to transform Nepal from
a Hindu state to a Christian state. A famous researcher, Yogi Narahari
Nath always used to say that Nepal gives everything to India, from its
fresh air to herbs, fresh water, indigenous production working
manpower, etc, and Nepal is getting nothing from India. The Indian
wish is to bring all the political parties into the Indian fold. The
Indian mission was fulfilled by the seven parties plus Maoists
alliance with the direct support of India - from human resources to
financial resources. Christians too became successful in declaring
Nepal a secular state.”
What were pitfalls of the Constitution of 1990? Why was it suspended
without reason? What kind of new constitution would we require? Why
has India supported the Constituent assembly? These are the causes of
crisis in Nepal. The anti-Indian voice is increasing day-by-day.
Nepalese democratic exercise faced a black period in between
2005-2010. The nation’s future seems dark because they have walked as
directed by unseen forces that beckon them without studying Nepal’s
geographical reality and sensitivity.

We have to keep friendly relations with India due to our similar
cultural and religious traditions. But, since 2005, the cordial
situation is dissolving day by day between Nepal & India. I believe
the permanent institution of ‘Monarchy’ can re-unite the cordial
relationship between Nepal & India. So, on behalf of Nepalese
nationalists, India and all the democratic forces, we demand to
reinstate our beloved Nepalese monarchy with Hindu Kingdom. Once
re-instated, the king needs to form an inclusive cabinet under the
leadership of neutral politicians to find different solutions.
Thank you.
Dirgha Raj Prasai
Kathmandu
Email:dirghar...@gmail.com

On 11/2/11, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> The fact is if the Arya samaj had it their way we wouldnt be seeing this or
> any influence of hinduism around the world
>
>

> Foreigners flock to Haridwar for love of HinduismIANS | Nov 2, 2011, 12.59PM
> IST
> Article
> Comments (1)

> Read more:Russia|Religion|orthodox|Hinduism|Church|christianity1

> entity while nature(= jagat, srishti) is an unconscious visible thing. Both

>>>>>>>>I would like to inform here that Sri Swami Vigyanananda jihas quoted

>>>>>>>> this dialogue incompletely and its concluding portion has been
>>>>>>>> deliberately dropped. Because in the end of the talk when Maharshi
>>>>>>>> Dayananda was asked about what sort of religion (dharma) did he wish
>>>>>>>> to propagate, he said in plain words that - "I want people to follow
>>>>>>>> the teachings of the Vedas, to believe in and worship only one God
>>>>>>>> who is without a body, to acquire virtues and give up vices."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This shows that Maharshi Dayananda was against the co-existence of
>>>>>>>> the prevailing  various warring sects and sub-sects. He stood for

>>>>>>>> unity of mankind based on truth, reason and justice.This is evident

>>>>>>>>> School of Karmayoga i.e. Pravraiti marg is known as Brahman

>>>>>>>>> parampara.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>These are two major philosophical and spiritual schools.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>“Saankhyayogi Prithag Baalaah Pravadanti Na Panditaah,
>>>>>>>>>Ekamapyaasthitah Samyagubhayorvindate Phalam.
>>>>>>>>>Yat Saankhye Praapyate Sthaanam Tadyogairapi Gamyate,
>>>>>>>>>Ekam Saankhyam Cha Yogam Cha Yah Pashyati Sa Pashyati.”
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The ignorant, not the wise, speak of knowledge and performance of
>>>>>>>>> action, as distinct. He who truly lives in one, gains the fruits of
>>>>>>>>> both. Attainment as reached by the Jnanis is also reached by the
>>>>>>>>> Karma-yogis. He who sees knowledge and performance of actions as
>>>>>>>>> one alone attains.
>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>Brahman paramparadeveloped as wide and various. Shraman parampara

>>>>>>>>> which was once wide and various shrink and confined to two main
>>>>>>>>> schools i.e. Jain & Bouddh parampara.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>These two major schools have six schools (Shada Darshan) in each
>>>>>>>>>Philosophical Group
>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>Nityavadi (Eternalist) Darshan- six schools

[Dirgha Raj Prasai]

Dear All !
I am from Kathmandu.
Please read and use the reality of Jesus Christ and the fake Christinity.

Jesus Christ, Christian Religion its Origin

By Dirgha Raj Prasai
The ideological differences on Jesus Christ and the Christian religion
are being analyzed with emphasis on historical facts and being
centralized on question pertaining to the search of the starting point
of the world’s religions. The ancient Vedic Hindu religion is the
genesis of civilization. Vedic traditional Hinduism of the old age is
the devotee of the Panchadeva (five Gods). ‘Omkar Jagat (followers of
OM) is the devotee of Vedic Hindu traditions. The worship of Gods and
Goddess- Ganesh (an elephant headed God), Bhagawati (Goddess), Surya
(Sun), Shiva (Lord Shiva) and Bishnu(the creator of the world), is
compulsory for one who is facing crisis. We confer respect to one
another on account of the ancient Vedic Hindu religion. We want Nepal
to remain a stable Hindu and Buddhist nation. Nepal is the birth place
of both these two religion-Hindu and Buddha. First of all, we should
be convinced that the religion is realization; not talk, not doctrine,
nor theories, however beautiful they may be. It is being and becoming,
not hearing or acknowledging; it is the whole soul becoming changed
into what it believes. So,
religion is the manifestation of the Divinity already in man. Then, we
should understand that the Hindu religion is very ancient, practical
and democratic in the way of human life.
Muslim and Christian religions took birth long after the creation of
Hindu religion and its civilization. Hindus and Buddhists of Nepal are
highly liberal. They respect either of the religions, Christian and
Muslim. However, Hindus will not tolerate the attempt made on
attacking the popular religion of this place by coming here and trying
to evangelize people following other religions. In Nepal, Hindus and
Buddhists do not bear any ill will towards Muslims. This is so because
Muslims follow their own religion and respect Hinduism and Buddhism,
not attack them. So we are not angry towards Muslims. Hindus of Nepal
are suspicious and angry towards the Christian workers brokers.
Christian's supporters want to destroy Nepal’s identity. Some Nepalese
were turned into Christians before 1768 A.D after the Malla rulers
came under influence.
After 1768 A.D the creator of the big Nepal, Prithvi Narayan Shah
chased away Capuchin and Christian preachers due to their suspicious
activities. So, from then they bore a negative attitude towards Nepal.
Facts are not obtained by being angry. Shiva, Buddha and Jesus Christ
did not find the right path without deep meditation. The Christians
must know who they are, where the religion started and then give
respect to other religions. To refrain from all evils, to do what is
good, to purify the mind; these are the lesson of all religions. Then,
why are Christians forgetting our history and their
originality-'Hinduism'?
'Long before the dawn of civilizations in other parts of the world,
the Vedic sages and seers of Nepal and Bharatavarsha (India) evolved a
scientific, universal and eternal way of life, Sanatana Dharma or
Hindu Dharma, which spread to distant continents. The Rishis
discovered that the source of all creation is a nameless, formless
Supreme Being--Parama Purusha--who's Energy or Power manifests as the
entire universe. Modern science agrees with the truth that the entire
creation is manifestation of Consciousness or Consciousness - Force as
Sri Aurobindo rightly calls. Sun, the source of material world and all
forms of life was adored as Savitru -- the stimulator or one who
vivifies--and His power, as Gayatri--that which protects those who
live in tune with Nature. Sun, without which life is impossible, was
symbolically represented in the Fire--Agni--and adoration of Fire--
Agnihotra -- came into existence.' (Mohan Gupta)
In the context of world religions, we should research the originality
of the religions. Jesus Christ and his mother Mary were influenced by
Hindu. It may be the Christianity was founded on the life and
teachings of a Jew named Jesus Christ. "Christ" is a title and it
comes from the Greek form of the Hebrew Messiah, meaning 'anointed
one.' The English word "Jesus" comes from the Greek form of the Hebrew
Joshua, a common name which means 'savior.' Christianity was founded
on the life and teachings of a Jew named Jesus Christ. Among all
religions of the world, Hindu religion is considered as an ancient
religion that is recognized as the foundation of civilization and as
the most liberal democratic way of life. Almost, 250 years ago, when
present India (Hindustan) was not in existence, there were more than
25 nations, the great King Prithvi Narayan Shah expressed 1768 –"Nepal
is true Hindustan"
Dr. Swami Prapannacharya in his book ‘Bed Ma Ke Chhha’ has quoted from
Sri Baba Swanker, preacher Gopalacharya, Dr. Bukanin, Dr. Spencer,
Russian intellectual Dr. Nikal Sanoto from a book ‘Unknown Life of
Jesus’ that, “The birth of Jesus Christ was in a Hindu family of
India. There is a statue of Christ’s mother 'Mary' in Florence. Such a
statue is also found in the Church of Macmillan. In the statue Mary is
wearing a just Nepalese & Indian's women's dress (Sari-Cholo) like
that of Hindu queen and a red patch of vermillion (Tika) on the
forehead like that of Hindus. Many western intellectuals have also
believed that Christ took birth in a Hindu family. ‘God is Light’ is
the line of Lord Shiva, light of Christians.
In an art house in Munich, Germany a statue of Jesus Christ is found
wearing a robe of a Hindu ascetic with a patch of red vermillion-mark
made on forehead (Tika). In the statue found in Florence Jesus is
wearing a sacred thread (Janai) like that of a Hindu Bhramin. A
picture found at the Vatican Palace in Rome shows Christ having a
length of bound hair beginning at the center of a shaved head (known
as Tupi in Hinduism) and wearing cloth worn round the waist (Dhoti),
looking an appearance of a righteous man (Sadhu). An authoritarian
regime of Israel executed Christ who had stayed in Nepal for six years
doing meditation. He came back from the grave, as he had acted as if
dead, with the power of meditation and left for India.
An Indian scholar Rajiv Malhotra writes-'The fact is that the Vaidik
Yogic path of embodied-knowing seeks to dissolve the historical ego,
individual and collective, as false. It sees the Christian fixations
on history and the associated guilt, as bondage and illusions to be
erased
through spiritual practice. Its physical postures are only the tip of
an iceberg, beneath which is a distinct metaphysics with profound
depth and breadth. Its spiritual benefits are undoubtedly available to
anyone regardless of religion.'
Similarly, an Indian scholar Prem Sabhlok expresses-The metaphysics of
Socrates and Plato influenced so much the Western social and spiritual
thought and brought enlightenment to the West that today WEST
describes “Plato as philosophy and philosophy as Plato.” We the
followers of Vedic Sanatan Dharma in India seem to have forgotten that
that source of his writings and philosophy was Vedic metaphysics.
Before Plato, Pythagoras went from Samos (Greece) to land of Ganga to
learn Geometry. He would not have gone such a long and strange journey
had the reputation of Brahmin’s (Vedic) science not been long
established in Europe. (Francois. M. Voltaire). Plato left Athens for
about one decade and visited Prasava (Persia), Ariana (Iran) and North
West part of the then India-land of Aryans. He seems to have discussed
a number of metaphysical concepts with the then Vedic Rsis and
Munnies. On his return to Athens, he propagated those thoughts without
making any reference to Vedic Rsis and Munnies. However, the influence
of Vedic metaphysics is clearly visible in Plato’s writings/books. '
So, it is proved that Jesus was influenced on Vedic Hindu philosophy.
And He had traveled again and again in this pious-land-Nepal & India.
We can see a tomb of Jesus Christ kept in Kashmir. Christ traveled
through what is now Nepal and India from 13-30 years seeking religions
teachings. There are facts that suggest he read Vedic teachings in
Kashi, Jagannath, Bihar and Nalanda. He went to Lumbini and visited
mountains of Kumbakarna, Gaurishankar and Mt. Everest south of Tibet.
It is mentioned in the Sanskrit language in a Puran (theology) book.
It is also mentioned in this theology ‘The mother of Jesus was
pregnant in younger age before her marriage.’ We can see the
similarity between Kuntee and Mary so Jesus Christ represents Karna.
Kuntee bore a child Karna before her marriage.
Similarly, an intellectual M.K. Shrestha has written, 'The mother of
Jesus Christ Mary had become pregnant before she had married. The
problem was solved when she accepted one carpenter Yusuf (Joseph) as
her husband. First he denied accepting her. Let it be- Jesus Christ
came to India at the age of 12/13 with businessmen. He spent some days
with Jainmuni (sage) in Rajasthan. Then he studied Ved in Kashi and
Jagannathpuri. He achieved enlightenment through meditation in India.
Jesus Christ preached on love, benediction, compassion and mercy by
learning from ancient Vedic Hindu religion. He has shown honor to Veda
in his books. He believed in Bhramh (the creator), Bishnu( the
preserver and protector), Maheshwor (manager of truth, beauty &
wellbeing) and ‘OM’. The word 'OM’later changed into ‘Omen’. The
manuscript of Christ can be read at the 'Summit University' in France.
The tradition that precedes a birth, death, marriage and christening
in Churches by priests and pastors corresponds with the Hindu
traditions. There is a hexagon of Hindu Goddess ‘Saraswati’ (Goddess
of Intellect) in the national insignia of Israel’s Jews.(Nepal
Samachar Patra) The cross is the sign of Christ- hanging.
An analyst, Dr. Tilak B. Shrestha says-' The concept of ‘Christ’ comes
from the legend of ‘Krishna’ of the Hindu pantheon. Hindus believe
that God incarnated as Krishna to teach the ‘Karma Yoga.’ It may be
noted that the lesson of ‘Karma yoga’ is primary and the belief in
incarnation is only secondary. However, it is also believed Krishna to
state that whenever world is in pain; he will incarnate to heal it. It
is a universal declaration of love of God for its creation, not a
political statement. In those ancient times, though difficult, people
did migrate. The people migrating to the Middle East from the east
were collectively known as Hebrews. One sub-group of such Hebrews is
‘A-Brahman’. They were the erstwhile Hindu ‘Brahmans’ who quit rigors
of Brahmanism and migrated to the west. In Sanskrit, the prefix ‘A’ is
used to negate. Thus, ‘A-Brahman’ means ‘no longer Brahmans.’ This is
the origin of the Jewish name ‘Abraham’. This group also carried the
promise of Krishna as their legend. The word ‘Krishna’ Hellenized to
‘Chrisnos’. Greek language tends to substitute ‘T’ for ‘N’, and it
became ‘Christos’. Similar interesting phonetic substitution in
Japanese is ‘R’ for ‘L’ and in Chinese ‘L’ for ‘R’. You might have
heard Japanese democracy and ‘erection’, and Chinese noodle and
‘lice’. The Greek word ‘Christos’ became ‘Christ’ in Hebrew. The
meaning of the legend also changed with the new environments. This
definition is believed by Jewish people and claimed by Jesus. By the
way, ‘Jesus’ is known as ‘Yesu’, ‘Yusuf’, ‘Isa’ etc. in different
languages. Thus to bring Christianity in line with other two
religions, Constantine convened and presided over the Christian
council in 325 AD, in Nicea. Christianity then following Judaism had
only one God. Jesus supposed to be God’s son.
Prof. Jitendra Dhoj Khand, 'Supreme God: Body, Will, Wisdom, and Work
2010)' writes-'In 1887 a Russian war correspondent, Nicolas Notovitch,
visited India, Nepal, and Tibet. He claimed that, at the lamasery or
monastery of Hemis in Ladakh, he learned of the "Life of Saint Issa,
Best of the Sons of Men." Issa is the Arabic name of Jesus. His story,
with a translated text of the "Life of Saint Issa," was published in
French in 1894. According to Kersten, the Bhavishyat Maha Purana - the
9th of 18 of Sanatana Dharma known as the Puranas - asserts that
Israelites settled in India, and in verses 17-32, describes the
arrival of Jesus. One day, Shalivahana, the chief of the Shakas, came
to a snowy mountain (assumed to be in the Himalaya Mountains). There,
in the Land of the Hun (= Ladakh, a part of the Kushan empire), the
powerful king saw a handsome man sitting on a mountain, who seemed to
promise auspiciousness. His skin was like copper and he wore white
garments. The king asked the holy man who he was. He replied: I am
called Isaputra (son of God), born of a virgin, minister of the
non-believers, relentlessly in search of the truth.' O king, lend your
ear to the religion that I brought unto the non-believers ... Through
justice, truth, meditation, and unity of spirit, man will find his way
to Isa (God, in Sanskrit) who dwells in the centre of Light, who
remains as constant as the sun, and who dissolves all transient things
forever.
The blissful image of Isa, the giver of happiness, was revealed in the
heart; and I was called Isa-Masih (Jesus the Messiah).[ According to
some Muslims on the subcontinent, the Ahmadiyyas in particular, the
further sayings of Muhammad mention that Jesus died in Kashmir at the
age of one hundred and twenty years. Ahmadiyyas have advocated this
view for over 100 years. Muslim and Persian sources purport to trace
the sojourn of Jesus, known as Isa, or Yuz Asaf ("leader of the
healed") along the old Silk Road to the orient. The books, Christ in
Kashmir by Aziz Kashmiri, and Jesus Lived in India by Holger Kersten,
list documents and articles in support of this view. They believe Yuz
Asaf to be buried at the Roza BAL shrine in Srinagar, India. The "Life
of Issa" begins with an account of Israel in Egypt, its deliverance by
Moses, its neglect of religion, and its conquest by the Romans. At the
age of thirteen the divine youth, rather than take a wife, leaves his
home to wander with a caravan of merchants to India (Sindh), to study
the laws of the great Buddha.' Similarly, Hikmat Bista writes-'In
bible a dark period is mentioned. During this period no one knew where
Christ was. In fact he was in University of Taxyashila, popularly
known as Taxela. Now it is in Pakistan. There he was studying.

'Issa is welcomed by the Jains, but leaves them to spend six years
among the Brahmins, at Juggernaut, Banaras, and other places, studying
the Vedas and teaching all castes alike. The Brahmins oppose him in
this, and he denounces them and their sacred books, especially
condemning caste and idolatry. When they plan to put him to death, he
flees to the Buddhists, and spends six years among them, learning Pali
and mastering their religious texts. He goes among the pagans, warning
them against idolatry and teaching a high morality. At twenty-nine,
Issa returns to his country and begins to preach. He visits Jerusalem,
where Pilate is apprehensive about him. The Jewish leaders, however,
are also apprehensive about his teachings yet he continues his work
for three years. He is finally arrested and put to death for
blasphemy, for claiming to be the son of God. His followers are
persecuted, but his disciples carry his message out over the world.'
It is viewed that Jesus Christ was in India and Tibet, particularly in
Nepal. Nepal is the original place of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. The
source of Tantra and Yoga Meditation is Shiva. Rig Veda is directly
belong to Lord Brahma. The division of four Vedas, Mahabharat, 18
Purana, and Bhagavad-gita were written by Veda Vyas of Nepal. His sons
were Pandu and Dhirtarastra – their sons were Pandava and Kaurava.
Their war is called the Mahabharata. The Pashupatinath and the
Muktinath are in Nepal. In addition, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva are in
the burning light at Muktinath of Nepal – this shows "Trinity".
Maharishi King Janak's daughter Sita - Queen of Lord Ram was at
Janakpur of Nepal. Lumbini is birthplace of Gautama Buddha and Lumbini
is in Nepal. Hence, Jesus Christ must have studied most of the
literatures and practiced of meditation and Tantra in Himalayan
Mountains of Nepal. This is the reason He became closer with Supreme
God and declared son of God along with Trinity –Father, Son, and
Sprit.We can read the destructive conspirator history of Christian
brokers in south Asia here.
This Christianization started since the European Missionaries landed
in Indian and Sri Lankan shores and established themselves, especially
in the colonial period. Despite independence, the process of
Christianization has increased, thanks to the imposition of the
Christian concept called
‘secularism’ by the political leadership of both countries, showing
scant regard to the native cultural heritage and religious traditions.
Then, they adopted their strategies by the Church to achieve this goal
can be summed up as: 1.Influencing the leadership of both LTTE and the
Sri Lankan Government. 2. Influencing the leadership of the Dravidian
Parties of Tamil Nadu
and forming an unholy nexus with them; spreading the myth of
“Christian Missionaries’ contribution to Tamil. 3. Acquiring vast
stretches of lands, as much as possible, in the name of education and
health care, and planting Churches along the stretches so that
neighborhood citizens are coerced and converted easily 4. Baptizing
Thiruvalluvar, hijacking*Thirukkural* and doing things in his name.
Inventing a St. Thomas-Thiruvalluvar connection and spreading that
myth. Thiruvalluvar and Thirukkural are a stop gap arrangement, a
transit point, through which the transformation from Hindu to
Christianity takes place. 5. Sowing anti-Veda and anti-Sanskrit poison
and dividing the Saiva Mathams, thereby separating a section in the
name of “Tamil Saivam” and controlling them. A few Saiva Mutts, who
flirt with the Atheist Dravidian
Parties, are allegedly backed by the Church to go all out against
Vedic culture, Agama Worship and Sanskrit usage6. Corrupting the
secretariats and officials of Vaishnava Mutts-and Saiva Adheenams and
purchasing their lands through them, thereby liquidating their assets
immensely. Many Mutts have sold their lands to Christians.7.
Influencing the Government to interfere in Temple affairs and harass
the Mathams and Adheenams through the Hindu Religious and Charitable
Endowment Department.Changing Hindu traditions through government
ordinances to suit their agenda.8. Erasing- “Hindu” identity and
establishing a “Tamil” identity through inculturation, Tamil
chauvinism and Tamil separatism, with the intention to
totally Christianize the state.'
We know- the Christian mission is to highlight the peoples of the
world through information sharing and networking. To gathering,
manage and distribute strategic population, progress indicator and
ministry activity information to maximize the visibility of the
least-reached peoples to the Church. The goal is a comprehensive,
accurate, validated, public ally available list of all the
ethno-cultural people groups of the world, to be a least-reached
peoples networking resource to the Christian mission community and to
enhance the flow of information between Great Commission organizations
by using standardized data coding. This also enables any Christian
missionary organization anywhere in the world to source any
ethno-cultural or ethno-linguistic Data. So assuming that somebody at
the CIA headquarters wants information on a particular district or
region all that needs to be done. The brokers of Christians use to
say- 'God is allowing us to "spy out the land" that we might go in and
claim both it and its inhabitants for Him.' The CIA has publicly
admitted for covert intelligence operations in many parts of the
world. Being Sonia Gandhi Italian Christian, Majority Indians are
converting to the Christian religion because the government of India
(Congress (I) has given grants to Christian charities that are
involved in conversion activities in India. The proponents of
faith-based initiatives want US government funds to go to those
churches and Christian NGOs that consider conversion as part of
rehabilitation activities. Since the USAID funds Christian NGOs in
Nepal and India and also since US trans-national Christian NGOs like
World Vision and CARE are heavily involved in development initiatives,
their role in evangelical activities is not a matter of conjecture.
'Christians misappropriated the name of Jesus and produced a demonic
religion called Christianity which came into existence during the
period of King Constantine, four hundred years after the death of
Jesus the Christ. Christianity attempted to wipe out the Jews and was
at loggerheads with Islam which came into existence later. The
Crusades were waged and millions of people perished in the wars. The
Semitic religions under the control of fanatic and fundamentalist
bigots unleashed reins of terror destroying human societies.'
In Nepal, the 'United Mission to Nepal' has been working offering the
sugarcoated poison to the greedy and poor people. United Mission to
Nepal writes in its secret guide-line-' The only consultation before
the Board meeting on how to worldwide Church should partner with the
Nepali Churches is an opportunity to share experience and explore the
musicological implications of the various ways in which Member Bodies
and UMN in this country can relate to the Christian community.' There
is no simple formula in Nepal or in our home countries that answer all
our questions in trying to be faithful to Christ's commission.' UMN's
has written a dangerous conspiracy to destroy the mind of Nepalese
people-' In Recruitment we plan to continue the work of 'enlisting',
'fresh solders' for work in God's mission in Nepal throughout the
financial year.' So, in Nepal, Christian mission is spreading like the
locust (dangerous insects). UMN has programmed the strategy- 'We
should give highest priority to developing the capacity of Nepali
organization to respond to the needs of Nepal. UMN's demonstrated
effectiveness in providing services to the poor, training individual
Nepalis, developing Nepali companies and institutions, contributing to
vital infrastructure and modeling innovate approaches to meeting human
need can be carried forward into the future by Nepal organization. We
hope that many wills-'reach unity in the faith and attain to the full
measure of the fullness of Christ'. How conspirator style they are
lunching after-1998?
Similarly, in 1835 Lord Mecaule and in 1856 Caldwell used weapons to
enforce Christianity after colonizing India. Their blasphemous act of
disintegrating the Hindu religion has tainted the Christian religion.
Those taking part in the publicity of the Christian religion indulge
in fighting amongst each other. They are in the habit of
discriminating each other. To show them different to that of Hindu
religion, Christianity has shown utter disregard to the wearing of red
vermillion (Tika and Sindhur), resorted to burning scriptures of codes
of conduct of Vedic Hindu and Buddhism and vandalizing statues. Due to
such acts Christian religion has taken in the form of a religious
terrorism. Christians have moved in against the sentiment of Jesus
Christ and absorbed the non-religious ways by abandoning Vedic
tradition and indulging in self-driven motives of taking over state
powers.
James Madison (American Statesman, 1751-1836, Co-Author Declaration of
independence) Christianity is full of superstition, bigotry, and
persecution’. Thomas Paine (1737-1809), the American Statesman wrote:
‘What is it the Bible teaches us? — Rapine, cruelty and murder
President Thomas Jefferson--The Christian God is cruel, vindictive,
capricious and unjust.’ Charles Dickens.--‘Missionaries are perfect
nuisances and leave every place worse than they found: -- ‘His Majesty
the King has ordered that there shall be no Brahmins in his land and
that they should be banished.' I order that no Hindu temples be
erected in any of the territories of my king and that Hindu temples
which already have been erected be not repaired and must be destroyed.
(The Inquisition--Francis Xavier--Sonia's UPA Government-
Bhagavaandaas Tyaagi-2010,Nov.25 )

This is a matter of such extremity that brings destruction to oneself.
Those in Nepal who in ignorance have sold themselves to the economic
incentives of Christian missions have raped their own identity. We
condemn the absorption into an artificial road of those who have
gotten the Vedic Hindu religion to cremation and helped in
establishment of Christian colony. If it necessitates there will be
attack on them. If Christians do not respect the Vedic Hindu religion
then Nepalese Hindus will not tolerate the Christian conspiracy.
The British Empire, spreading in Asia, after getting hold of its
influence in India had eyed on mountainous region of Nepal. Then the
great King Prithbinarayan Shah fought against the Brutishness'
destructive design from attack this pious Land-'Himabatkhanda-Nepal'
and saved this sovereign-Land. It was not an easy task to fight
British imperialistic force in the mid 18th century. Now, since 2005,
the Christian Missions are active to do so. But, Hindus are paying the
price for their intellectual laziness, for choosing comfort over hard
thinking. Most of these 'thinkers' have never opened the Bible. It is
a matter of grief that the Christian saints and brokers ordered to
destroy the temples where they kept the idols of Hindu's God & Goddess
and to break the statues of Hindu idols into tiny pieces. That was
their goal to destroy Hindu & Buddha culture and make the country a
Christian nation. Hinduism has a deep philosophical and spiritual
heritage that has repeatedly mesmerized the world including western
scientists, leaders and philosophers. So, it is a high time Nepal and
all the Hindus in the world should be careful to save her indigenous
culture. Some Christians erected Churches without any agreement after
2005; they had not to so such behavior. As such voices are raised by
the employees of brokers of Christianity, Christian religion is
becoming unpopular. In Arab nations due to the pressure mounted by the
Christian nations of the west, they are forced to view them as their
enemy.
When my opinion published on- 'Jesus Christ and Christian Religion its
origin' in different online, then the > www. Y-jesus.com < released
the questions about Jesus Christ. 'Who was the real Jesus? If a court
of law were to evaluate the evidence for Jesus Christ, what would it
conclude about his identity? Is it possible to discover the true
historical Jesus? Many scholars have carefully studied the facts about
this person who has so greatly influenced human history. The articles
on this website reveal the truth regarding Jesus of Nazareth.
Archaeologists, historians, textual scientists and New Testament
scholars examine the wealth of evidence making him the most unique
person in the history of our world. You will find answers to questions
asked by skeptics about his existence, the credibility of his claims,
his true identity, his fulfillment of prophecy, his resurrection, his
relevance to our lives today, and the reliability of the New Testament
gospels. So what do the facts tell us? Can we trust the New Testament
accounts of Jesus, or are the skeptics right? We invite you to examine
the evidence. Was Jesus a Real Person? Was there a Da Vinci
Conspiracy? Is Jesus God? Are the Gospels True? Was Jesus the Messiah?
Did Jesus Really Rise from the Dead? Is Jesus Relevant Today?' But, I
have answered already in my analysis.'

In the context of discussion Mr.Adelfo Del Rosario writes
aggressively- ' Whatever you have seen done wrong or any wrong doings
done by other Christians to defect your worship of your HINDU gods, I
should say that these Christian have their own personal interpretation
but not of the real meaning and the true teaching of the CATHOLIC
CHRISTIAN CHURCH. For us who understand the real teachings and meaning
of what JESUS CHRIST has taught us, we cannot allow to do bad or worst
things against our dear brothers and sister regardless of race, creed
and religion. JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF manifested the true sacrifice he
had received from those people who had crucified HIM and as a true
CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN it is a must to follow HIS works deeds and
manifestation of the true LOVE. In behalf of those Chrisitian who had
done wrong to all of you, I myself would kneel down in front of you to
ask forgivessness of the mistakes they had created against you. it is
almost like the thing experienced by our dear Pope Paul IV who was
attacked and knifed, yet he had visited the person in jail who had
knifed HIM and yet forgiven the assault of the person. It is really
hard for any human being to practice the act of forgiveness when they
had been attacked or assaulted by the offender, yet JESUS CHRIST had
shown that anybody can do this act of forgiveness to share LOVE and
peace.'- May 26, 2011
Please, let is be- America destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki of Japan
in the Second World War with the nuclear weapons created by Jew
scientist Einstein. When the then American President Roosevelt asked
Einstein what he wanted the latter has answered, “I want a Jew state.”
In this sense the Americans must have declared Israel ‘a Jew state’.
When Einstein was asked to preside over the presidency of the nation
he swiftly declined to do so. In Israel the sign which is common with
Hindu Goddess ‘Saraswoti’ was made the symbol Shatkon (angle having
six bases) of Jew. It is an inspiration from the Hindu religion. Jews
who fled Iran many centuries ago came to south Asia, Hindu Kings gave
them refuge. Jews have never forgotten those centuries of Hindu
generosity in south Asia, when they were persecuted everywhere else in
the world.
But the Christians are pouncing on Hindus wherever they contact and
show the attraction of money as attraction to transform them into
Christians. Their design is ending the Hindus’ identity. Actually, in
the long term, such conspiratorial actions reverse a defeat for the
Christians themselves. The attempt to control human beings desire
cannot be called religion. Aren’t there other options than religion to
achieve the goal of establishing colonies?
Hindu religion and its culture are respected by many big intellectuals
around the world. The western renowned philosophers-Voltaire, George
Bernard Shaw, German scholar Nitse, Megasthaniz and Fai-Han have
written many books supporting the Hindu philosophy expressing the
evolutionary process of the world's civilization. Hindu philosophy is
incomparably greater intellectual work than the Bible? According to
Encyclopedia of Religions and Ethics, signs of Hindu religion are even
found in the present Islamic country like Iran. A stone scripture of
486 BC found in Iran contains the words Hindu and Hindus. Even an
ancient Parsi scripture 'Shatir' has lifted a word of Ved Vyas- 'I am
a true Hindu born in a Hindu country'. An international scholar Aldus
Huxley said-'The oldest aspects of Hindu mythology give place to the
most profound and subtle utterances about the nature of ultimate
reality, it is in itself a liberal education in humility, tolerance
and suspense of judgment.' An Indian scholar says- S. Kalyanaraman
says- Hinduism was a storehouse of knowledge and enlightenment and, if
fully
researched, could provide answers to the issues facing the contemporary
society.
Dr Mrs. Hilda Raja writes- We have politicized the church and the
echo. You have misused your position and authority to barter and
bargain. I know from experience that the Evangelical churches hate
the Catholic Church and their ‘bishops’ and pastors do their best to
wean Catholics to their churches. The Catholic Church has greater
credibility, is monolithic and has political power. The damages done
to the catholic churches must be the handiwork of the Christian
youth. I believe in Jesus and what He stood for-a just society. He did
not establish a religion. Do not use Him to justify your
aggrandizement and divisive strategies. “My kingdom is not of this
world”. Finally let me remind you that TRUTH was crucified by the
conspiracy of priests and the civil authorities-the same is being done
down the ages.
NEWSWEEK COLUMNIST Ms Lisa Miller says-'we are all Hindus. The Rig
Veda, the most ancient Hindu scripture, says: "Truth is one, but the
sages speak of it by many names." A Hindu believes there are many
paths to God. The most traditional, conservative Christians have not
been taught to think like this. They learn in Sunday school that their
religion is true, and others are false. Let us all say "OM." when you
chant "OM," it will resonate not only in the room but down through the
ages.' May 13, 2010 at > http://www.newsweek.com/id/237910
The Christian calendar had started 57 years after the start of Bikram
Sambat. After Jesus Christ was worshipped legitimately then the
calendar was commenced in memory of him after 400 years. When this
calendar came into effect they took references of months, days from
the Bikram Sambat (Nepalese Era). Adityabar (Sunday) was taken as
Sunday in remembrance of Sun. In this day Christians pray. Sombar
(Monday) is the day of Moon-Monday, Mangalbar( Tuesday) is the day of
welfare-Tuesday (God of Mars), Budhabar (Wednesday) which is Horse
day, Brishaspatibar is Thursday (Thor’sday-The Thunder), Sukrabar is
Friday (Wife of Odin) and Sanibar is Saturday meaning-The day of
Saturn (Roman God of Agriculture). The word Day was taken out of
Sanskrit word Diwa. The month of September is from Saptabar, October
is of Ostabar, December from Dasambar. The March Month is related to
Ganesh-Mangalb. The word Mother is taken from Matri and Father or
Peter from Pitri. There are many words that in time have changed in
such a way.
The ‘Omen’ word used by Christian is similar to the ‘OM’ used by
Hindus. Hindus worship the Sun God on Sunday; similarly the Christians
worship Christ on Sunday. In view of all these, the Christian nations
and Christian mission ought to respect the greatness of Hinduism and
competent views of it. Many words had taken from Sanskrit. Mother
(Maathru), Father (Pithru), Bhraatha(Braathru), Geriatric(Jaraa),
Nose(Naasikaa), Mortal(Mruthyaha), Door(Dwaaraa), Two(Dhwe),
Three(thri), Divine(Divya) and so on.
The Sanskrit word made Samittee from which Committee was made. The
word Prasad is like Palace, Charitar for Character, Danta for Dante.
Like Christianity developed from Hinduism the Greek, Latin took birth
from Sanskrit language. Famous French intellect Dr. Jekreliot Bible
has accepted the Hindu science. He says 'The Hindu Revelation (Veda)
is of all revelations, the only ideas are in perfect harmony with
modern science as it proclaims the slow and gradual formation of the
world." German philosopher Nieztse has said, 'The law book of Manu is
incomparably greater intellectual work than the Bible.'
May this analytical and research-based work in regard to who Jesus
Christ was and what religion was he influenced of and how Christian
religion started to be considered by all. We, Hindus respect the only
Jews state 'Israel' of the world. Lastly, it is our appeal to the
Christian missions and Christian nations that they confer their rich
respect to the only pure Hindu nation of Nepal. May there be efforts
to the effect of eradicating the negative views of Hindus towards
Christianity. So, all the Christians and Christian world must regard
the Vedic Hindu religion and NEPAL as a 'Hindu Kingdom.'
Email: dirghar...@gmail.com

On 11/2/11, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> The fact is if the Arya samaj had it their way we wouldnt be seeing this or
> any influence of hinduism around the world
>
>

> Foreigners flock to Haridwar for love of HinduismIANS | Nov 2, 2011, 12.59PM
> IST
> Article
> Comments (1)

> Read more:Russia|Religion|orthodox|Hinduism|Church|christianity1

> entity while nature(= jagat, srishti) is an unconscious visible thing. Both

>>>>>>>>I would like to inform here that Sri Swami Vigyanananda jihas quoted

>>>>>>>> this dialogue incompletely and its concluding portion has been
>>>>>>>> deliberately dropped. Because in the end of the talk when Maharshi
>>>>>>>> Dayananda was asked about what sort of religion (dharma) did he wish
>>>>>>>> to propagate, he said in plain words that - "I want people to follow
>>>>>>>> the teachings of the Vedas, to believe in and worship only one God
>>>>>>>> who is without a body, to acquire virtues and give up vices."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This shows that Maharshi Dayananda was against the co-existence of
>>>>>>>> the prevailing  various warring sects and sub-sects. He stood for

>>>>>>>> unity of mankind based on truth, reason and justice.This is evident

>>>>>>>>> School of Karmayoga i.e. Pravraiti marg is known as Brahman

>>>>>>>>> parampara.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>These are two major philosophical and spiritual schools.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>“Saankhyayogi Prithag Baalaah Pravadanti Na Panditaah,
>>>>>>>>>Ekamapyaasthitah Samyagubhayorvindate Phalam.
>>>>>>>>>Yat Saankhye Praapyate Sthaanam Tadyogairapi Gamyate,
>>>>>>>>>Ekam Saankhyam Cha Yogam Cha Yah Pashyati Sa Pashyati.”
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The ignorant, not the wise, speak of knowledge and performance of
>>>>>>>>> action, as distinct. He who truly lives in one, gains the fruits of
>>>>>>>>> both. Attainment as reached by the Jnanis is also reached by the
>>>>>>>>> Karma-yogis. He who sees knowledge and performance of actions as
>>>>>>>>> one alone attains.
>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>Brahman paramparadeveloped as wide and various. Shraman parampara

>>>>>>>>> which was once wide and various shrink and confined to two main
>>>>>>>>> schools i.e. Jain & Bouddh parampara.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>These two major schools have six schools (Shada Darshan) in each
>>>>>>>>>Philosophical Group
>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>Nityavadi (Eternalist) Darshan- six schools

[Dirgha Raj Prasai]

I am sending from Kathmandu-