To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

[GOUTAM CHATTERJEE]

To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee:

 

Alright! We would come straight to address your misconceived and misplaced questions borrowed by you from the proselytizers and Jihadists and thrown at Hindus at the formers’ instance as missiles! But before that a few observations seem to be warranted. You being a ‘Sanjeev Kulkarni’, why couldn’t you ask these questions with the Andaaz of a Rishi-Putra? But, unfortunately, you have asked these questions with the gleeful Andaaz of a Macaulay-Putra. The world knows that your Lord Macaulay had products like you in mind when he wrote to his British masters on February 02, 1835: "I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace  her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self-esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation."

You are religiously doing their bidding as premeditated by them and, therefore, have brought your knives out against the Hindu society and its glorious assets of holistic (Saakalyavaadi; Poornataavaadi), syncretic (Samannwayvaadi) and altruistic (Parahitavaadi, Paraarthavaadi; Paropakaarvaadi) religio-cultural tradition. You have been indoctrinated by some weird and inimical Bhaashyas (translations), Teeka (commentary), Vyaakhyaa (description) of the Vedas fabricated by some outlandish proselytizing elements to whom let alone the language of the Vedas even Paniniya Sanskrit is Greek. You know a good Siddhaant (doctrine) falling into the hands of a good man produces good results and when it falls into the hands of a bad man he makes even a good Siddhant produce bad results. Yours is also a classic case of such perversion.

***

Sri Aurobindo rightly wrote: ‘Religious movements and revolutions have come and gone or left their mark but after all and through all the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation.... The Upanishads, mighty as they are, only aspire to bring out, arrange philosophically in the language of later thinking and crown with the supreme name of Brahman the eternal knowledge enshrined in the Vedas. Yet for some two thousand years at least no Indian (let alone any foreign interpreter  –Ed.) has really understood the Vedas.’

 ...
    
Sri Aurobindo further wrote ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end. These compositions of an unknown antiquity are as the many breasts of the eternal Mother of knowledge from which our succeeding ages have all been fed....

 

The recovery of the perfect truth of the Veda is therefore not merely a desideratum for our modern intellectual curiosity, but a practical necessity for the future of the human race. For I believe firmly that the secret concealed in the Veda, when entirely discovered, will be found to formulate perfectly that knowledge and practice of a divine life to which the march of humanity, after long wanderings in the satisfaction of the intellect and senses, must inevitably return.’

 

***

He also wrote: ‘It is a superstition of modern thought that the march of knowledge has in all its parts progressed always in a line of forward progress deviating from it, no doubt, in certain periods of obscuration, but always returning and in the sum constituting everywhere an advance and nowhere a retrogression. Like all superstitions this belief is founded on bad and imperfect observation flowering into a logical fallacy.... The logical fallacy we land in as the goal of our bad observation is the erroneous conception that because we are more advanced than certain ancient peoples in our own especial lines of success, as the physical sciences, therefore necessarily we are also more advanced in other lines where we are still infants and have only recently begun to observe and experiment, as the science of psychology and the knowledge of our subjective existence and of mental forces.... While our forefathers believed that the more ancient might on the whole be trusted as more authoritative, because nearer to the gods, and the less ancient less authoritative because nearer to man's ultimate degeneracy, we [moderns] believe on the contrary that the more ancient is always on the whole more untrue because nearer to the unlettered and unenquiring savage, the more modern the more true because held as opinion by the lettered and instructed citizen of Paris or Berlin. Neither position can be accepted. Verification by experience and experiment is the only standard of truth, not antiquity, not modernity. Some of the ideas of the ancients or even of the savage now scouted by us may be lost truths or statements of valid experience from which we have turned or become oblivious; many of the notions of the modern schoolmen will certainly in the future be scouted as erroneous and superstitious.’

 

***

‘Dayananda (Swami Dayananda Saraswati, founder Acharya of Arya Samaj –Ed.) goes farther; he affirms that the truths of modern physical science are discoverable in the hymns.... The ancient civilisations did possess secrets of science some of which modern knowledge has recovered, extended and made more rich and precise but others are even now not recovered. There is then nothing fantastic in Dayananda's idea that Veda contains truth of science as well as truth of religion. I will even add my own conviction that Veda contains other truths of a science the modern world does not at all possess, and in that case Dayananda has rather understated than overstated the depth and range of the Vedic wisdom.’

***

Now let us examine a few representative samples of your chronic misrepresentations about the Vedas:-

(A)(i) "Unsubstantiated allegation/Childish babbling of Macaulay-Putra Sanjeev Kulkarni: “Vedas say Earth is static!” According to Vedas, the earth is static and this statement is repeated several times. The following are some of the examples: “Oh Man ! He who made the trembling earth static is Indra.” (Rig Ved 2/12/12)

IRejoinder by Goutam Chatterjee:

It is a blatant lie on your part that any Vedic Hymn says the ‘earth is static’! The specific Mantra you have referred to reads:

 ‘yaḥ saptaraśmirvṛṣabhastuviṣmānavāsṛjat sartave saptasindhūn |

yo rauhiṇamasphurad vajrabāhurdyāmārohantaṃs. j. i. ||’ (Rig Ved 2/12/12)

(It means: He, the seven-rayed, the showerer, the powerful, who let loose the seven rivers to flow; who, armed with the thunderbolt, crushed Rauhin.a when scaling heaven; he, men, is Indra. [The seven-rayed: the seven rays, ras'mayah = seven forms of Parjanya (Taittiri_ya A_ran.yaka 1.9.4-5), or Indra, as the rain-cloud; or seven kinds of rain-clouds].)

A Macaulayite like you is certainly not qualified to understand, let alone appreciate, the holistic, altruistic and syncretic worldview of the Vedas and the great Rishis including Bhagwan Vedavyas – an unsurpassed compiler, writer and editor of literature of mankind that is globally celebrated by sophisticated connoisseurs and lay men alike.  

 

(ii)"Sanjeev Kulkarni: ‘The God who made the earth stable’ (Yajur Ved 32/6)

IRejoinder by Goutam Chatterjee:

Have you gone mad? Why should the earth not be ‘stable’? Only a mad cap would want it to be ‘unstable’ with frequent polar shifts, planetary collisions, etc.! Why should you be against its steadiness, strength, soundness, poise, solidity, balance, stability? Why should you want it to be ‘unsteady’, ‘wavering’, ‘sliding’, ‘disintegrating’, ‘unsure’ and ‘insecure’ in its place in the solar family and orbit? Why should you have a problem if the Earth is the Provider, Dhaatri (Nursing Mother), Dharitri (Nurturer), Janitra (Birthplace), Medini (Nurturer), Prshni (Mother of Plants), Vanaspatinam Grbhir Osadhinam (Womb of Forest Trees and Herbs), Stable One (Sthaavara), Vishvadhaya (All-Nourishing), Vishvagabha (World's Womb, Vishvamshu (Producer of Everything), Vishvasvam (Source of Everything), Sustainer,  Dhara (Upholder), Drdha (Steady One), Ksama (Patient One), Vishdava (All-Preserving), Vishvadharini (All-Supporting), Vishvamhara (All-Bearing), Enricher, Ratnagarbha (Repository of Gems), Ratnavati (Abounding in Jewels), Vasundhara (Bearer of Treasure)?

 

(iii) "Unsubstantiated allegation/Childish babbling of Macaulay-Putra Sanjeev Kulkarni: ‘Indra protects the wide earth which is immovable and has many forms’ -(Atharv Ved 12/1/11)

IRejoinder by Goutam Chatterjee:

With a jaundiced eye in your mind, you have all meshed up the meaning of the Hymn. The actual Meaning of the Mantra is:

 ‘O Prithivī, auspicious be thy woodlands, auspicious be thy hills and snow-clad mountains.

Unslain, unwounded, unsubdued, I have set foot upon the Earth,

On earth brown, black, ruddy and every-coloured, on the firm earth that Indra guards from danger.’

Why should you have a problem with a ‘firm earth’, a solid, dense, compact earth? Why should you want it everywhere and always to be yielding, squashy, spongy and prone to disintegration?

 

(iv) "Unsubstantiated allegation/Childish babbling of Macaulay-Putra Sanjeev Kulkarni: Let us walk on the Wide and Static earth (Atharv Ved 12/1/17)

IRejoinder by Goutam Chatterjee:

The actual Meaning of this Mantra is:

 ‘Kind, ever gracious be the Earth we tread on, the firm Earth,
  Prithivī, borne up by Order, mother of plants and herbs, the
   all-producer.’

Where is the talk of a ‘static earth’? It again celebrates a ‘firm earth’, a solid, dense, compact earth! What is your problem with this?

 

It is enough to call the bluff of your anti-Vedic groundless questionnaire that, we know, is borrowed by you from X’ian proselytizing forces!

 

 

(B) You would better uphold the following ‘Bharat Mata Ki Jai’ view in the matter based on the scientific methods of observation and experiment adopted by our great Rishis (besides empirical knowledge, they also had ESP and esoteric knowledge) who were either Saint-Scientists or Scientist-Saints – it is always a great thing if a Saint is also an Intellectual Kshatriya like a Scientist and a Scientist has the ‘Heart’ of a ‘Saint’ otherwise s/he would produce WMDs (Weapons of Mass Destruction). A great son/daughter of Mother Earth is one who is either a ‘Sant’ (Samyak Antahkaran Jiska; person with a golden/pure heart) also with a ‘scientific mind’ or a ‘Scientist’ with a ‘saintly heart’. The knowledge of atom and sub-atomic existence, etc., in the hands of a Saint would lead humanity towards more vigorous cultivation of Divine Consciousness and the same knowledge in the hands of a ‘heartless’ scientist would produce atom bombs and other WMDs.

 

Here is a sample list of scientific knowledge propagated by Rishis (Seers) whose ‘laboratories of science’ were in ancient days called ‘Yajnashaalaas’ that also manufactured many products of vital importance to man and a ‘home’ was a place of ‘homam’ (Havan/Yajna):-

 

Astronomy:

1. Solar Energy: The world is due to the Sun god. The living beings get their strength and energy from Him. -(Taittiriya Aranyakam – 3.11) (The fact that sun is the source of energy was well known to Indians from Vedic period.)

2. Sun – The Centre of solar system (Heliocentric model of Solar System and not geocentric one)

The sun holds the earth and the celestial region. The sun is the attracting power of all heavenly bodies. (Taittiriya Samhita – 3.4.10.3-4) - An instance of Bharatiya culture always being knowledge-centred.

Long before Copernicus, the Vedas advocated the heliocentric model of the solar system. The Rig Veda  (Rg.5.47.3) states:

The shining beautiful celestial Red Ball (sun),  the ocean of fire, whose light brings us rains, finds its place in the vast Antariksha – the space. The sun possessing Prishnirasma, the matter responsible for solar energy/electricity and colors got its position in ‘the centre of heaven’ (solar system) and it protects the whole world (solar family) and demarcates the east and west directions within the solar family!

Rig Veda 10.22.14
“This earth is devoid of hands and legs, yet it moves ahead. All the objects over the earth also move with it. It moves around the sun.”

Rig Veda 10.149.1
“The sun has tied Earth and other planets through attraction and moves them around itself as if a trainer moves newly trained horses around itself holding their reins.”

The ancient seers of Bharat knew that the earth revolved round the Sun (Heliocentric model of solar system). But, for the sake of Vyaavahaarikataa (practicality) to address the needs of day-to-day calendars and astrology for convenient consumption at a commonman’s level a geocentric standpoint had been incorporated just as for consumption at commonman’s level you have to teach the ‘Vyaavahaarik Satya’ (working/empirical and apparent truth in order to save the man on the street from being bamboozled) that: “Two parallel lines never meet”, “A straight line is always straight” but the wise understand and appreciate the Param-Satya that:  “two parallel lines meet in infinity” and “a straight line becomes a circle in infinity”.

Also ancient Bharatiya literature such as the Aitareya Brahmana (2.7), Vishnu Purana (2.8) and Satapatha Brahmana (8.7.3.10) propound the Heliocentric model of the Solar system, where the earth revolves round the Sun. Further the Chapter "Heliocentric in the Rig" in the book "The celestial Key to the Vedas" by Burra Gautam Siddharth discusses the Heliocentric theory in the Rig Veda.

 

3. Path of all celestial bodies is elliptical.

The elliptical path through which all the celestial bodies move is imperishable and unslakened. (Rigveda: 1.164.2)

This is called Trinabhichakram because to form an ellipse three points are required. Ellipse is the path of a point that moves so that the sum of its distances from two fixed points called foci is constant.

(In the western astronomical tradition upto the age of Copernicus (1473-1543), it was believed that the planets and other celestial bodies had circular orbits. Later Johannes Kepler proposed a new theory in 1609. According to him the path of all the planets and other celestial bodies is elliptical.)

4. Planetary Motion

The mean planets move on their orbits and the true planets in eccentric circles. All the planets whether moving on their orbits or in eccentric circles move with their own motion, anti-clockwise from their apogees and clock-wise from their perigees. (Aryabhatteeyam-Kalakriyapada – 3.17 (499 CE)

(Aryabhatta stated this law in the 5^th century CE, much before the first law of planetary motion given by Johannes Keppler in 17^th century CE).

5. Cause of Eclipse

The moon covers the sun and the great shadow of the earth covers the moon. (Aryabhattyam-Golapaadah 37)(499 CE)

That Aryabhatta demystified eclipse aeons ago, stands eclipsed by misplaced credits!

6. Seasons when comets influence the Earth

The influence of these comets is increased rapidly in the seasons of autumn and spring as these naturally and inherently exists in the solar rays. (Brihad-vimana-shastram, Kriyasara-tantram page 185)

What a hell lot of knowledge about heavenly bodies!

7. Number of Comets

In the eighth region of the sky there are 3,07,03,221 comets. (Brihad Vimana Shastra – Kriyasara-tantra page 184)

Among the above comets 8000 are very fierce. Twelve out of these eight thousand are again highly powerful. (Brihad Vimana Shastra – Kriyasara-tantra page 184)

8. The Moon

The Moon, being the satellite of the earth, revolves round its mother planet and follows it in its revolution round the self-luminous father planet (the sun). (Rig Veda – 10.189.1)(Taittiriya Samhita – 1.5.1.3, 4)

This is one bright example of Indian astronomical genius in the Vedic era (approx. 8000 years ago.)

Rig Veda 1.84.15
“The moving moon always receives a ray of light from sun”

Rig Veda 10.85.9
“Moon decided to marry. Day and Night attended its wedding. And sun gifted his daughter “Sun ray” to Moon.”

9. ECLIPSE
Rig Veda 5.40.5
“O Sun! When you are blocked by the one whom you gifted your own light (moon), then earth gets scared by sudden darkness.”

10. Circumference of the Earth

The radius of the earth is 800 yojanas. The circumference of the earth is the result of multiplication of its radius with 2 and square root of 1024056 or 326 X 10⁷ danda. (Surya Siddhanta Madhyamadhikarah-59)

The value for the circumference of the earth is 4,008 X 10⁷  meters.

(One danda is equal to 1.24 meters approximately)

11. Orbiting Planets

Massive celestial bodies are attracted powerfully towards the earth by her own (gravitational) force, and they appear to fall as a result of such attraction, but when equal forces act on a body in space from all sides how can it fall?

(Siddhanta Shiromani – Bhuvanakoshah-6)(528CE)

The universal law of gravitation was propounded by Issac Newton (1642-1727 CE) much later.

 

HH Swami Dayananda Saraswatiji Maharaj – founder Acharya of Arya Samaj – has also given numerous clues to scientific knowledge in the Vedas, e.g., 

12. GRAVITATIONAL FORCE

Rig Veda 8.12.28
“O Indra! by putting forth your mighty rays, which possess the qualities of gravitation and attraction-illumination and motion – keep up the entire universe in order through the Power of your attraction.”

Rig Veda 1.6.5, Rig Veda 8.12.30
“O God, You have created this Sun. You possess infinite power. You are upholding the sun and other spheres and render them steadfast by your power of attraction.

Yajur Veda 33.43
“The sun moves in its own orbit in space taking along with itself the mortal bodies like earth through force of attraction.”

Rig Veda 1.35.9
“The sun moves in its own orbit but holding earth and other heavenly bodies in a manner that they do not collide with each other through force of attraction.

Rig Veda 1.164.13
“Sun moves in its orbit which itself is moving. Earth and other bodies move around sun due to force of attraction, because sun is heavier than them.

Atharva Veda 4.11.1
“The sun has held the earth and other planets”

--------------
13. An abstract of the scientific temper of Hindus:-

(i) Cosmology:
-First people to imagine the age of the universe in billions of years (8.64 billion years, we know today that it is ~12-16 billion years old)
-Idea of cyclical universe, creation and destruction, similar to the cycle of expansion and retraction in the big bang theory.
-Ability to calculate eclipses
-First to calculate the earth's circumference
-There is an old Sanskrit Sloka (couplet) which is as follows:
"Sarva Dishanaam, Suryaha, Suryaha, Suryaha."
meaning that there are suns everywhere, Hindus of ancient times were the first to realise that there were other stars like our sun.
-Initial ideas about gravity
-heliocentric theory of solar family

(ii) Mathematics:

The world calls the numerals as ‘Arabic Numerals’ as they got it through the Arabs while the Arabs themselves call it ‘Hindsa’ as a tribute to ‘Hind’ (India) from where the ancient traders of Arab borrowed it.
-Invented Algebra
-Invented the decimal system
-Invented the zero
-Discovery of Taylor series for sin, cos, tan inverse, pi before the Europeans
-First usage of negative numbers
-Usage of Pythagorean Theorem before Europe
-Usage of Quadratic formula before Europe
-First to learn how to solve simultaneous equations
-Geometry usage (Gameeti in Sanskrit)
-Trignometry invention (Trikonamati in Sanskrit)

The Mathematical Sūtras (formulae or aphorisms translated from Sanskrit into English) propagated by HH Jagadguru Sankaracharya of Puri Govardhan Piith Swami Bharati Krishna Tiirthaji Maharaj:

• "By one more than the previous one"
• "All from 9 and the last from 10"
• "Vertically and crosswise (multiplications)"
• "Transpose and apply"
• "Transpose and adjust (the coefficient)"
• "If the Samuccaya is the same (on both sides of the equation, then) that Samuccaya is (equal to) zero"
• By the Parāvartya rule
• "If one is in ratio, the other one is zero."
• "By addition and by subtraction."
• By the completion or non-completion (of the square, the cube, the fourth power, etc.)
• Differential calculus
• By the deficiency
• Specific and general
• The remainders by the last digit
• "The ultimate (binomial) and twice the penultimate (binomial) (equals zero),"
• "Only the last terms,"
• By one less than the one before
• The product of the sum
• All the multipliers

Subsūtras or corollaries

• "Proportionately"
• The remainder remains constant
• "The first by the first and the last by the last"
• For 7 the multiplicand is 143
• By osculation
• Lessen by the deficiency
• "Whatever the extent of its deficiency, lessen it still further to that very extent; and also set up the square (of the deficiency)".
• "By one more than the previous one"
• "Last totaling ten"
• The sum of the products
• "By (alternative) elimination and retention (of the highest and lowest powers)"
• By mere observation
• The product of the sum is the sum of the products
• On the flag

 

 

(iii) Physics/ Earth Sciences:

- First people to theorise about the water cycle
- A theory of evolution in terms of rebirth to a higher organism (predecessor for rebirth)
- First ideas about the conservation of matter
- Primitive ideas of underlying elements of matter before the Greeks
- First people to calculate the age of the Earth to 4 billion years (in the fifth century BCE!)
- Predecessors of the Heliocentric Theory
- Preliminary theories on Gravity
- First to realise that clouds were composed of water
- Realised that Earth was flattened at the poles and not a perfect sphere
- Knowledge of Earth's rotation
- Priliminary ideas as to why twilight and moon phases occur (that are consistent with science)

(iv) Chemistry:

- Ability to build an iron pillar that still hasn't rusted 2000 years later
- Built a golden statue of Buddha that shines still although it was buried for centuries
- Invented the stainless steel
- Built some of the strongest weapons/armor in the ancient world
- Preliminary ideas about the atom (called anu in Sanskrit)
- First to theorise that water can be broken into Hydrogen and Oxygen

(v) Life Sciences:

- One of the first to study the human anatomy
- First surgery
- Knowledge of how to cure cataracts (opthomological surgery)
- First people to do rhinoplasty (plastic surgery)
- Invention of Ayurveda which contains knowledge on thousands of medicinal herbs, and a holistic approach to medicine
- Ayurvedic remedies destroy the source rather than cure the disease, so although they worked gradually, they didn't have any side effects.
- Ayurveda had knowledge on remedies to psychiatric ailments like Schitzophrenia
- Ability to heal bones without castes
- Advanced forms of meditation had the ability to alter the rate of metabolism of the yogi, allowing them to survive in the harshness of the Himalayas with little clothing.
- Advanced Yoga can even help lower blood pressure, blood sugar.
- First people to work on Vetinary Medicine
- Preliminary ideas of evolution based on the soul reincarnating as more sophisticated organisms
- Knew that trees absorbed water from the roots
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(C) I would again urge upon you to try to see the world also through the following windows and you can certainly see more and more new things of the Aparaa as well as Paraa existences from the standpoint/perspective of a Rishi-Putra:-

 

(1)   “Ramayana in Human Physiology” by Neuro-Physiologist Prof. Dr. Tony Nader (aka His Majesty Maharaja Adhiraj RajaRaam – the present Head of the Maharshi Mahesh Yogi organizations with a global following of six million with HQs at Maharishi Vedic University (MVU), Holland and the Maharishi University of Management (MUM) at Iwoa, USA)

(2)     ‘Human Physiology: Expression of Veda and the Vedic Literature’ (1995) (ISBN 9788175230170) by Neuro-Physiologist Prof. Dr. Tony Nader.

 

(Dr. Tony Nader developed a theory that there is a one-to-one correlation between 40 aspects of Vedic literature and 40 parts of human physiology. He has also found similarities between the astrological influence of the planets and parts of the human brain. His researches have confirmed the conviction and certitude of our Rishi-Krishi-based Himalayan Tradition that all the Vedic Richaas are naturally built, by divine design, into the building blocks of every human body, mind and consciousness in forms of neuron settings. This profound rediscovery also re-established the certitude that rhythmic collective chantings of these Vedic Richaas carry the holy vibratory invocations via specific spectrums and gravitate the Dev Shaktis (divine powers) including the astral divinities and gods to make the earth their abode amidst the human realm and society and at the end of the day Aasuri Shaktis (dark forces), e.g., wickedness, sensuousness and all other criminal and negative tendencies give way to Dev Shaktis, i.e., virtues of righteousness such as altruism, syncretism and holism in humanity, animal kingdom and plant kingdom. Recognizing its great significance for human civilization and culture, the UNESCO proclaimed the tradition of Vedic chant a Masterpiece of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity on November 7, 2003. Brahmaliin Maharshiji prescribed “Re-establishment of Vedic India” as he saw India as the beloved land of God. He therefore willed and commanded his Uttarsaadhaks, institutional and organizational authorities and over six million lay followers all over the world to ensure teaching and practice of all the Four Vedas, Six Vedaangas, Four Upavedas, Upanishads, Aaranyak, Braahmana and re-establishment of all the 40 Brahmavidyaas at all the 12 Jyotirlingam Teerthams and their 48 allied Teerthams so that Bharat could radiate all across Planet Earth the holistic, altruistic and syncretic values for the cause of Happiness, Health and Blessedness. This work is likely to be taken up in Bharat from December-2012)

 

(3) Bharatiya Vigyan Manjusha (Treasure Trove of Ancient Indian Sciences) (942 pages) by M.S. Sreedharan and published by the Publications Division, Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, Government of India.

 

(4) "Science and Technology in Ancient India" (English version; 119 pages) (Its Hindi version is: "Praachin Bharat Mein Vigyan Evam Praudyogiki". It is published by Vijnan Bharati, A-10, Tulsi Bhavan, Sion, Mumbai-400 022.

(5) ‘Modern Physics and Vedanta’ written by HH Swami Jitatmananda Ji Maharaj of Sri Ramakrishna Mission and published by Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan.

(6) ‘Life Divine’ by Sri Aurobindo

(7) ‘Jnana Yoga’ by Swami Vivekananda

(8) ‘A Search in Secret India’ by Paul Brunton.

(9) ‘An Autobiography of a Yogi’ by Paramahansa Yogananda

(10) ‘Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda’

(11) ‘Complete Works of Sri Aurobindo’

(12) ‘Vedic Mathematics’ by HH Jagadguru Sankaracharya Puri Govardhan Peethadhishwar Brahmaliin Swami Bharati Krishna Tirtha Maharaj (published by Motilal Banarsi Dass)

(13) ‘Science in Samskrit’ published by Samskrita Bharati, New Delhi

(14) ‘Indian Tradition of Chemistry and Chemical Technology’ published by Samskrita Bharati, New Delhi

(15) ‘Indian Heritage of Science & Technology – The Physics’ by Dr. N.G. Dongre and published by Samskrita Bharati, New Delhi

(16) ‘Science in India’ by A.K. Biswas

(17) ‘The Positive Sciences of The Ancient Hindus’ by Brajendranath Seal (Sahitya Samsad)

(18) ‘Medicine and Surgery in Ancient India’ – A Yugayatri Publication

(19) ‘Spiritual Heritage of India’ published by Sri Ramakrishna Mission

(20) "The celestial Key to the Vedas" by Burra Gautam Siddharth

(21) ‘India’s Rebirth’ – by Sri Aurobindo

(22) The Bhagavad Gita (Royal Science of God-Realization) (God Talks With Arjuna – The Immortal Dialogue Between Soul and Spirit) – by Sri Sri Paramahansa Yogananda

(23) You should also read (i) Dr. David Frawley (Vamadeva Shastri) of USA, (ii) Francois Gautier (of French origin), (iii) Sitaram Goel (VOI), Delhi, (iv) Koenraad Elst (VOI), Belgium, (v) Ram Swarup of Voice of India (VOI), Delhi.

 

-Goutam Chatterjee 

<gchatt...@gmail.com

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Re: To Sri Sanjeev Kulkarni: Ref your ‘brief selection of a few points from the Scientific Errors in Hindu Scriptures!’, I would request you that before daring to touch upon such serious subjects....

Inbox

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From: sanjeev kulkarni <jeevku...@yahoo.com>

To: GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; 
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: To Sri Sanjeev Kulkarni: Ref your ‘brief selection of a few points from the Scientific Errors in Hindu Scriptures!’, I would request you that before daring to touch upon such serious subjects....

 

The biggest blunder of our people was that they turned science into religion. Once you turn scientists into saints and rishisand science into religion, your downward spiral and complete divorce with the truth is only a matter of time.   Once any truth becomes divine, people have emotional attachment with it and they refuse to modify the same in the light of new experiments or abandon them if new evidence is found contradicting these hypothesis.  They even refuse to update the truth and their ideology becomes stagnant.  Once science or so called truth becomes divine, even glaring contradictions are ignored.

 

Fist the hypothesis was made without any experiment etc. and subsequent thoughts  based on this hypothesis are to be only coherent with one another. Without verifying whether their ideas have solid basis in reality, they started discussing about coherence of the ideas with one another.   This is called 'coherence theory of truth'. But the hypothesis itself was never put to test.  The biggest flaw in this method is that you can thrash out inconsistencies of statements with one another by modifying them, without  validating the theory by actual experiments and they were accepted as truth.  

 

 But there is 'correspondence theory of truth - espoused by Charvak.  Which means you cannot make out whether the statement is true or false by its analysis or consistencies with the hypothesis. Truth depends on whether there is corresponding reality in the universe and how far your statement is consistent with the reality.  e.g. Man has four legs and table has four legs.  You cannot know which statement is false and which one is true just by analysis of the statement itself, unless you verify which one corresponds with the reality. So when you make any statement, to know if it is the truth, it is very important to verify whether it corresponds with some thing in existence in the universe. 

 

I have observed three flaws in Hindu philosophy / principles (1) they never give reasoning for their statement and never explain how and why they arrived at this particular conclusion (2) They never follow principle of 'falsifiability' - i.e. under which condition they will accept that their principle will be proved / considered wrong.  (3)  there is never any unbiasedexperiment to test their hypothesis.  Whatever comes to mind by intuition becomes the 'ultimate truth' without any further validation or testing and experimentation.

 

You go through any statements made by the 'believers' and find out what is the basis of these statements.  You will find besides imagination of the authors, there is simply no basis and hence they should not be taken as the truth.  Nothing in this world can exist which is contrary to the laws of nature.  If you want to claim existence of new / unknown law of nature, you have to go through the rigours of proving the same scientifically.  There are no short cuts to the truth. 

 

Sanjeev

---------------

1.  brief selection of a few points from the

Scientific Errors in Hindu Scriptures!

Many more points can be presented but I guess these few points will be

enough to prove my point.

Hindus either have to prove these things presented in their sacred

scriptures or accept that their sacred scriptures have severe scientific

errors. Vedas, claimed by Hindus to be the most sacred scripture, allege

that: Sun moves around the earth on a golden chariot with his 7 horses.

Vedas also allege that The Bull has supported the sky. For more continue

reading below.

1. Vedas say Earth is static!

According to Vedas, the earth is static and this statement is repeated

several times. The following are some of the examples:

Oh Man ! He who made the trembling earth static is Indra. (Rig Ved

2/12/12)

The God who made the earth stable (Yajur Ved 32/6)

Indra protects the wide earth which is immovable and has many forms

(Atarv Ved 12/1/11)

Let us walk on the Wide and Static earth (Atharv Ved 12/1/17)

2

2. Vedas say Sun moves around the earth on a golden

chariot with his 7 horses

As the Veds Claim that the earth is static and so they tried to prove that the

sun moves around the earth. The following statement from the rig Ved tries

to clarify it:

1. "Sun is full of light and knows all the human beings, so his horses take

him to sky to look at the world" (Rig Ved 1/50/1)

2. "O, Bright sun, a chariot named harit with seven horses takes you to sky"

(Rig Ved 1/50/8)

3. "O, man, the sun who is most attractive, takes round of the earth, on his

golden chariot through the sky and removes the darkness of the earth"

(Yajur Ved 33/43)

3. Vedas say The Bull has supported the Sky

“The Bull has supported the sky.” Yajur Ved: 4: 30

“The Bull has supported the sky.” Yajur Ved: 14:5

4. Puranas say Earth is Flat

NARASINGA PURANA - Page 169 - Abithana Sinthamani - says that the earth

is flat. Today it has been proved beyond doubt by the scientists that the

earth is round.

5. Vishnu Purana - another astrological error

VISHNU PURANA says that sun is 800,000 miles and moon is 2,200,000

miles away from the earth respectively. Astronomy has now proved that the

moon is nearer to the earth, i.e. 240,000 miles and that the sun is

93,000,000 miles away from the earth.

3

6. Markandeya Purana - gives completely wrong area

of the earth

MARKANDEYA PURANA says that the earth has an area of 4,000,000,000

square miles. According to astronomy, it is only 190,700,000 square miles.

7. Vedas / Puranas recommend looking directly into

the sun with naked eye

The Vedas and Puranas say that all Hindus must pray to the sun god SURYA,

and that if you look at the sun daily every morning with your naked eyes,

your sight will improve. Accordingly many Hindus practise this act of

worship; but instead of their eyesight improving, India is the country that

has the most blind people in the world (2.5 million blind people and 9

million with corneal blindness). There is no scientific truth in sun worship,

and on the contrary the scientist and doctors advise everyone not to look at

the sun directly with the naked eye. Who is telling us the truth, the

Scientists or the Hindu scriptures? You be the judge!

8. Vedas say cow is holy and should be worshipped.

(Brahmins add that cow dung ash has medicinal

value)

The Vedas say that the cow is holy and should be worshipped. These

Brahmins also claim that cow dung ash has medicinal value. Samples sent to

a leading test laboratory in West Germany have proved this to be untrue.

9. Mt. Meru 100,000 times higher than Mt. Everest

according to the Hindu Scriptures

Arya texts of a comparatively late period ( 5 century AD ) still maintain a

belief in the fictional Vedic Mt. Meru. It is supposed to be one hundred

thousand times higher than Mt. Everest! Regarding this mountain, the

Matsya Purana says,

4

"It [Mt Meru] is golden and shining like fire. The colour of the eastern side

is white like the colour of Brahmans, that of the northern side is red like the

that of Kshatriyas, the southern is yellow like that of Vaishyas, the western

is black like the colour of Sudras. It is 86000 yojana high, and 16000 of

these lie in the earth. Each of the 4 sids has 34000 yojanas ... There are

beautiful golden houses inhabited by spiritual beings, the Devas, by the

singers the Gandharvas and their harlots the Apsaras. Also Asuas, Daityas

and Rakshasas are living in it. " -- [ Matsya Pur. quoted in al-B. i.247 ]

In general, 1 yojana = 8 miles = 32000 yards and 1 kroh = 1/2 yojana [ al-

B i.167 ]. Thus Mt. Meru would be 8x86,000 = 704,000 miles high. Mt.

Everest, by comparison, is only 29,000 ft., or less than 6 miles, high. Hence

Mt. Meru is 100,000 times higher than Mt. Everest !

The Kurma Purana has this to say on this topic,

" Earth, composed of seven continents, together with the oceans extends

500,000,000 yojanas across. Holy Jambudvipa lies in the middle of all the

continents; in its center is said to be lofty Mt. Meru, bright as gold. Its

height is 84,000 yojanas, and it extends 16,000 yojanas below the earth; its

width at the top is 32,000 yojanas, and its diameter at the base is 16,000

yojanas."

-- [ Kurma Purana, quoted in Classical, p. 52 ]

The impossibly high Mt. Meru is held to be the source of really existing

rivers in India such as the Sita.

[ Al-Beruni ] = `Albleruni's India', tr. Sachau

[ Classical ] = `Classical Hindu Mythology : A Reader in the Sanskrit

Puranas', ed. & trans. Cornelia Dimmitt and J.A.B. Buitenen

 

2.    Universe is not measured does not make it infinite.  Infinity is totally different concept from what is measured.

 

3.  Your attached article is based on 'god of gaps' and not positive evidence for the authenticity of your claims. If there are vague science based on assumptions, you have to show how you do not fall in to this category. 

 

There is no necessity of brahman for my brain to malfunction or function. You have to show with evidence that how brain will malfunction if there is nobrahman. 

 

Sanjeev
-----------------

[Arjun]

Written on April 9, 2012 at 2:13 am by Ranbir Singh

Politically Incorrect Reparations for Slavery

by Ranbir Singh

African slaves being sold in thirteenth century Yemen

In 1964 Malcolm X famously remarked how on pilgrimage to Mecca he was taken aback at how there was no racial or colour prejudice in Islam. Yet only two years previously Saudi Arabia had abolished slavery of his fellow blacks. We hear much about how America owes reparations to the descendants of those forcibly brought over from Africa as slaves, and even after liberation were forced to endure dehumanising treatment through legally enforced racial segregation, disenfranchisement and even mob violence. It is in this context that black separatist groups such as Marcus Garvey’s UNIA and Elijah Muhammad’s Nation of Islam flourished. Malcolm X was of course the most famous spokesmen of the latter before he exited from the organisation. Yet his split from NOI had more to do with personality clashes and rivalries than with any sudden realisation that orthodox Islam stood out against slavery and racism. Indeed he was perhaps closer to the truth when in 1959, having been criticised that Elijah Muhammad’s sect did not follow true Islam, he retorted “Arabs sold slaves”. Indeed the numbers of slaves taken from Africa to be sold in the slave markets of Islam probably exceeded that taken to the Americas. It not only preceded the trans-Atlantic slave trade but continued long after even Brazil and Cuba abolished slavery, and that means right into the twenty-first century in the case of Mauritania and Sudan. From its very inception Islam was associated with slavery. The Quran is replete with references to slavery as perfectly normal. Slavery in Islamic countries survived as a legal institution well into the twentieth century. Arun Shourie, member of India’s upper house of parliament, the Rajya Sabha, writing in his 1998 book ‘World of Fatwas’:

“The right of the master over his slaves form an important part of Shariah. The use one may make of concubines and slave-women forms the subject of Hadis. Slavery, retaining concubines – all these things have Allah’s approval in the Quran.”

 

NIneteenth century Arab slave traders

Born and educated in South Africa, Ronald Segal was forced to leave his country of birth in 1960 for engaging in activities against apartheid. Segal has been in important scholar in raising awareness of African slavery in the Americas, but in 2001 produced his milestone work in exposing the little known subject of slavery of blacks within Islam. Slavery and the slave trade was well established in Arabia long before Islam, and Islam itself conquered other slave owning societies but its numbers in the Islamic empire grew rapidly due to the Arab conquests. They were employed in a variety of roles.  Females were recruited for the harems while males could become slave soldiers, business agents, or eunuchs. Slaves were captured in war or born as the children of slaves. Razzias from Muslim Spain captured Christians for the slave market. Thousands were sold to other parts of the Islamic world. Conversion to Islam did not mean manumission. Indeed there was no mass freeing of slaves under Islam. As well as lacking legal rights, slaves were regarded as being morally and physically inferior. Their evidence was seldom valid in court. They could not own property. But as property themselves they could be passed via bequests. If a freeman killed a slave compensation was paid to the owner at the market price. A slave could be killed and punished without any legal penalties. A business agent was referred to as ghulam and not abd, indicating the difference of status and the better quality of life. At the opposite end of the scale were the mines, which were mostly worked by slaves in harsh conditions.

 

In the 1960s the Salazar regime used the ideas of Brazilian academic Gilberto Freyre to ‘prove’ that there had never been racism against blacks in Portuguese Africa. Yet Freyre’s Lusotropicalism was not even an accurate reflection of slavery and race relations in Brazil. With hindsight we can see the poignant and yet pathetic desperation of comparing the supposed racial democracy in Brazil with the segregation and racism that has historically been part of demographic experience in the USA and South Africa. Yet not only does Brazil have rampant racism with blacks excluded from positions of power and influence, as well as White Power skinheads, it has been South Africa and America which can now boast having heads of state who are black. Lusotropicalist-style apologetics are now the mainstream when describing slavery and racial prejudice in the Islamic world. Gang slaves were used in the mines and on plantations. Slaves were always used for the most dangerous work such as the salt mines of the Maghreb. Under the Abbasid caliphate there were the first attempts to have mass plantation slavery in the cultivation of sugar cane in Mesopotamia. Poverty led to slave revolts by black slaves in mines and plantations in 770, and again in Lower Mesopotamia in 883, joined by disaffected peasants. Disturbances were so serious, that even Baghdad was threatened. Known as Zanj, these slaves were led by Ali ibn Muhammad who became known as Sahib-az-Zanj, or Master of the Zanj. He aimed at restoring the purity of Islam not at abolition. Indeed he promised slaves and other property to his followers.

Sixteenth century Mughal painting of suppression of the Zanj rebellion

 

Gold and slaves were the main export items from the Sahara and beyond to the Mediterranean. Slaves came from the Sahel and even as far as Madagascar and India. This remained unabated while the trans-Atlantic slave trade grew in volume. Conditions across the Sahara were every bit as horrific as the Middle Passage. Slaves suffered from dehydration, sand storms, extremes of heat and cold, and having to carry other goods. Western slaving nations however were not immune from being the human harvesting centres for ambitious Islamic states. In the ninth and tenth centuries Tripoli became a major market for Christian slaves, especially female. Venetain slave traders sold human chattel from Dalmatia and Italy to the eager buyers in the Maghreb.  In the tenth century Arab slave raids targeted France and Italy. East Africa became a major source of slaves with important markets at Sofala, Zanzibar, Pemba, Kilwa, Mombasa and Malindi. Jihads against Ethiopia involved the inevitable slave-taking.

From the seventeenth century the Maghreb was the source of slave raiding pirates, the notorious corsairs of Barbary. For over a century pirates in the region had attacked Christian shipping in the region. Vulnerable merchant vessels passing through the Straits of Gibraltar were attacked in a maritime slave-raiding jihad which causing consternation across Europe. The coastline of Spain was ravaged but the corsairs took their attacks further. In 1625 the coasts of Cornwall and Devon were raised for slaves. One of many renegade Europeans to make cause with the pirates, Dutchman Jan Janszoon joined the al-ghuzat to become Murad Rais. His raids went to Reykjavik where he captured four hundred Icelanders to be sold as slaves. He also attacked Wales and in 1631 his attacks reached Ireland where 237 Irish were taken from the village of Baltimore, to be sold in the slave market of Algiers. The fort of Salé became the centre for the corsairs under the spiritual leader, the marabout Sidi Mohammed el-Ayyachi where slave trading became their economic lifeblood, and slaves were kept in horrendous conditions. Held in virtual darkness, in squalor which included literally wallowing in their own excrement, European white slaves had their clothes and hair infested in lice and fleas, were given little more than water and coarse bread, and pressured to convert to Islam. But slave raiding extended as far as Norway, Newfoundland, France, Portugal, Greece and Russia. Naples, Sicily, Sardinia, Tuscany and Calabria were areas of Italy which were especially affected. The slave dealers of Islam also found huge amounts of human chattel in Majorca, Gibraltar, Minorca, Corsica and the Spanish coast. Large areas of Spain’s coast became depleted of their population as a result. By the 1660s corsairs were enslaving English settlers from the American colonies. In 1627 a daring raid on Iceland killed many in the process, while others later died from disease or were converted to Islam. Pastor Ólafur Egilsson was sent by these slave raiding pirates, from Algeria to Denmark to negotiate ransom. Some Icelandic slaves were returned to their homeland a decade after capture. Tripoli also became rich on the slave trade and by the end of the seventeenth century was importing between 1500 and 2000 Christian slaves annually, mainly Italian. Two thousand black slaves were also being imported annually, although many died in transit. During the course of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries about a million European Christians were seized as slaves by the Barbary pirates. Slave raiding by the corsairs actually continued into the nineteenth century. In 1757 Sidi Muhammad became sultan and acted against the corsairs as he tried to replace dependence on slavery with more legitimate trade with European nations. However in 1790 he was succeeded by Moulay Sulaiman II who planned to relaunch the slave raids. In 1816 the British dispatched a huge fleet to end the corsair menace with an attack on Algiers which reduced large parts of the slave trading city to oblivion. The slave trade in white Christians from Europe and America by the Barbary corsairs was finally at an end. The economy of Tripolitania was ruined as a result. The main revenue now came from the trans-Saharan slave trade which was not ended in Benghazi until 1911 with the Italian conquest and continued in the Kufra region of Libya as late as 1930. Enslavement in warfare was meant to exclude Muslims. But in practice this was bypassed by raiding Muslim communities of another state, especially if they followed a different school of thought, or by enslaving anyone rebelling against the state. The latter is the fate which befell the Berbers in 1077 who were then sold off in the Cairo slave market.

Captured for the harem

Right from the advent of Islam in South Asia the faith had been associated with mass slavery. The raids of Mahmud of Ghazni produced thousands of slaves which were fed into a slave trade networked trafficking human beings to Iran, Iraq and Central Asia. Major slave raiding also took place by Timur. Further east and slaves were the majority population of Dutch ruled Batavia and Makasar in the eighteenth century, in what is now Muslim majority Indonesia. Raiders across South-East Asia captured and traded in slaves. Malay legal codes viewed slaves as property, devoting much attention to the details of servitude such as debt bondage. The Melaka sultanate had traded in slaves captured in the Philippines. By 1611 Sultan Alauddin Tumenanga ri Gaukanna had converted the Bugis and Makassares to Islam, people who actively sold slaves along with spices.

By the end of the fourteenth century the expanding Ottoman Empire was involved in the large-scale recruitment of slaves. From Murad I this was done by human leby on Christian captives caught in war, which in turn became formalised into an institution essential for slavery. For example, Bayezid I (1389-1402) granted land and tax exemption to a body of raiders who agreed to conduct regular razzias to ensure a regular flow of new human chattel. For the Turks who had brought large parts of Europe, Middle East and North Africa under their control, the slave trade flourished. The Turkish slave market was kept satisfied by raids of Crimean Tatars into Poland and Lithuania. The Crimean Tatars made huge profits from the sale of human beings to the Turks. Indeed on their very first slave raid against Poland in 1468, they captured 18,000 captives. In 1672 a major Tatar raid saw the capture of 44,000 Russian slaves. In the seventeenth century Crimean Tatars brought thousands of Russian slaves annually into the Ottoman slave markets. These included the cities of Cairo, Mecca, Basra, Algiers, Tripoli and Tunis. Turkish slave raids into Europe continued until the Battle of Mohács in Hungary in 1526, after which in 1541 that state became an Ottoman tributary. By the 1640s historian Ibrahim Pechevi noted that the supply of European slaves had largely dried up. However Tatar raids into Russia and Poland, as well as slave catching in the Caucasus and sub-Saharan Africa continued to supply slaves to the Ottomans. Raids into Russia continued into the nineteenth century. The Ottoman  state’s foundations lay in rule by an absolute sovereign and administered and protected by a slave caste who served the sultan with complete loyalty. From the time of Murad I, this elite infantry corps known as yeniçeri (janissaries) was raised by prisoners captured from the Christian Balkans, and instituted by Sultan Bayezid as devershirme, the human tax levy on Christian youth which recruited boys aged between seven and fourteen, converted them to Islam, and trained them as the sultan’s civilian and military elite.

Slavery retained its canonical status and legitimacy until the very end of the Ottoman Empire. British pressure led to the closure of the centuries-old slave market in Istanbul in 1846 by Sultan Abdülmecid, with further measures against the slave trade in the Persian Gulf and Maghreb. Slave traders in Jeddah feared that the slave trade in Africans would be banned appealed to the clerics in Mecca. The head of this religious establishment agreed that the measures against slavery were contrary to Islamic law and made the Turks into apostates and idolators. Hence jihad was declared against them. Hence the Hijaz region was made exempt from the trade in slaves. Meanwhile Iranians seized Christian slaves from Armenia and Georgia, until the Treaty of Turkmanchai in 1828 sapped this source, which led to greater reliance on black slaves. But Iranians were themselves enslaved by the Ottoman Turks, as well as by Uzbeks and Turkmens. Under British pressure, Iran halted the slave trade in 1882. Slavery itself was fully abolished in 1907. In 1861 it was the invading Russian imperialists who suppressed slavery in Muslim Central Asia. Indeed it was the pressure from now universally condemned and hated western imperialism which halted slavery in the Islamic world. In the early nineteenth century, Swiss traveller John Lewis Burckhardt met Hadji Aly el Bornawy in Nubia, who despite his evident religious piety nevertheless sold off his own cousin in the slave market of Mecca, while on hajj pilgrimage. The Hausa rulers had raided Muslim neighbours for slaves without any remorse for Islamic injunctions for not enslaving the faithful. They were challenged in 1810 by the revolt and jihad of Usman don Fodio, a Fulani of the Hausa state of Gobir. In 1812 he became caliph of a West African empire, helped by the fact that many of his supporters had been victims of slave raiding by the Hausa. Then in the 1820s, another Fulani, Ahmad ibn Muhammad, launched his own jihad against his overlords which he denounced as idolaters, and founded a state centred on Hamdallahi. In 1862 another jihad by Umar ibn Said led to a new empire dominated by the Tukulor. Slave markets and slave ownership flourished in the Sahel region. In area such as Bornu, non-Muslims were not encouraged to convert to Islam because this would then allow them to be enslaved without religious inconvenience. Only with the French conquest of this region was slavery and slave trade effectively curtailed, even if not completely stamped out. As recently as  2008 the former French colony of Niger was found guilty by the Court of Justice of the Economic Community of West African States for Hadijatou Mani being held in slavery. Niger had actually banned slavery but the country’s customary courts upheld the institution. Slavery continues with the full support of sharia. In the Gulf oil revenues have actually increased both ownership and the trade in slaves. On 7 November 2003, Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan of the Senior Council of Clerics, Saudi Arabia’s highest religious body as well as being a member of the Council of Religious Edicts and Research, Imam of the Prince Mitaeb Mosque in Riyadh, and professor at Imam Mohamed Bin Saud University stated that it was kufrto claim that slavery should be abolished:

“Slavery is part of Islam….Slavery is part of jihad and jihad will remain as long as there is Islam.”

In Mauritania Abdel Yessa Ould Yessa was born into the traditional Arab aristocracy and saw black slaves as inherently stupid people who knew no other work than to obey higher castes, in accordance with the Mauritanian saying “paradise is under the master’s foot”. Slave families are ripped apart as human beings are sold off or given away as presents. Psychological dependency by the slaves mean that in Mauritania, it is not even necessary to beat or chain them into submission, because they have been brought up to have no other purpose than service to the master. Yessa found that even in primary school in the capital Nouakchott, there was a female slave selling sweets, a slave employed as school guard, and the cleaning staff were all slaves.

Sudan remains the other Islamic country where slavery thrives, despite being abolished by the British in 1924. The Mahdi revolt of 1881 against the Turko-Egyptian rulers had in fact attracted many slavers to the ranks of its followers, the Ansars. Khalifa Abdullah had a thousand slaves working his personal estates and four hundred in his harem. Civil war between the Arab Muslim north and the largely black Christian and animist south has added a new dimension to the revival of slavery in this country. Slave raids began in earnest in the 1980s under the premiership of Sadiq al-Mahdi, grandson of the legendary Muhammad Ahmed, the Mahdi who resisted British colonial rule. In raiding southern villages, Khartoum’s armed militias slaughter the elderly and those attempting to escape. Captives are taken hundreds of miles from home, using the boys to end cattle and goats, or even join government militias to fight southern Sudanese rebels. Child slaves in Sudan are beaten, forced to sleep with the livestock, are branded for identification with hot irons, and suffer punishments such as amputation for losing cows or sheep. Women are forced into concubinage. High ranking officers in the Sudanese army own slaves.

 

Yet where are the calls for reparations for slavery in the Islamic world? The demographic catastrophe it brought is all too evident. One need only compare the situation of blacks in Israel with those in its neighbours. Why are there blacks in Israel? Because in 1984 the Israeli government made strenuous efforts to airlift the Beta Israel (Falashas) from famine stricken Ethiopia. But the people of African descent in Arab countries are the descendants of an archaic slavery which has yet to die. And of course it is not just Africans. The name Hindu Kush means “Hindu Slaughter”, testimony to the huge numbers of slaves taken from India through centuries of Islamic colonialism. The descendants of these slaves were dispersed throughout the Middle East as nomadic groups known as Nawar speaking the Indic language of Nawari. But they are perhaps more well known as the most marginalised and discriminated against people in Europe: the Roma or Gypsies. With all the oil revenues generated from the Gulf states spent on Wahhabi and Salafi terrorism, these rich countries that deny even basic rights to the millions of Asian workers who do the dirty jobs for the Arab herrenvolk could easily pay back reparations to the countries which for centuries were the victims of colonialism and slave raiding which political correctness deems off limits to even discuss and with the use of exploitative labour in places such as Dubai, Kuwait and Saudi, has yet to end.

[Arjun]

this kulkarni character is like someone who had a chinese takeaway for lunch and now thinks hes an expert on Chinese..he hasnt even read any aurobindo or sita ram goel let alone the Vedas but thinks hes an expert.The whole concept of the zero could only come from a hind spiritual mind

---

From: sanjeev kulkarni <jeevku...@yahoo.com>
To: shyam_n...@yahoo.com; bcm...@gmail.com; satish...@yahoo.com; arjun...@yahoo.co.uk; psab...@hotmail.com; bhano...@gmail.com; hita...@gmail.com; kata...@aol.com; sadhak_...@yahoo.com; jitender...@gmail.com; kri...@hindupedia.com; shankara...@yahoo.com; london...@yahoo.co.uk; tinasa...@yahoo.com; irmamuns...@gmail.com; sande...@hotmail.com; ani...@yahoo.co.uk; govind...@hotmail.com; rishi...@hotmail.com; ranbir...@talktalk.net; culturalbri...@yahoo.com; tcgm...@hotmail.com; vyshv...@gmail.com; live_by...@yahoo.co.uk; drmna...@yahoo.co.uk; rsin...@yahoo.com; brah...@yahoo.com; aryasam...@yahoogroups.com; aryayou...@yahoogroups.com; bhagav...@yahoo.ca; akansh...@yahoo.com; arya...@hotmail.com; mish...@aol.com; msb...@yahoo.com; naveen...@yahoo.co.in; arun_...@yahoo.com; jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in; puneet...@gmail.com; ashwini...@yahoo.ca; eka...@btinternet.com; jayasw...@gmail.com; as_...@rediffmail.com; baksh...@yahoo.com; skan...@gmail.com; op.t...@gmail.com; bharat...@gmail.com; ahven...@gmail.com; gir...@aryasamaj.com; arr...@ameritech.net; desi...@googlegroups.com; vijaya...@yahoo.com; ashoks...@rediffmail.com; satyar...@gmail.com; vsg...@yahoo.com; arya.v...@gmail.com; kcg...@yahoo.com; su_...@ymail.com; ajaya...@gmail.com; rajpa...@yahoo.com; radhakr...@yahoo.co.in; ar_sudh...@yahoo.com; agni...@gmail.com; aryam...@gmail.com; danan...@yahoo.com; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2012, 6:24
Subject: Re: To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

Since you have quoted many authors you should be aware of criticism of Hinduism too and instead of levelling any wild allegations, better understand what is wrong with Hinduism.  Unless you accept that there is a problem, you cannot solve it. All the high praising books from Aurobindo, Sitaram Goel etc. will not help you in any way unless you critically evaluate what is wrong and try to set it right.   It will be interesting to note the following observations about Hinduism by a Brahman, Hindu -   Naipaul writes that India “has little to offer the world except its Gandhi an concept of holy poverty and the recurring crooked comedy of its holy men, and . . . is now dependent in every practical way on other, imperfectly understood civilisations.” Hinduism, Naipaul writes, “has given men no idea of a contract with other men, no idea of the state. It has enslaved one quarter of the population [the Untouchables] and always has left the whole fragmented and vulnerable. Its philosophy of withdrawal has diminished men intellectually and not equipped them to respond to challenge; it has stifled growth. So that again and again in India history has repeated itself: vulnerability, defeat, withdrawal.” Indians, Naipaul says, have no historical notion of the past. “Through centuries of conquest the civilisation declined into an apparatus for survival, turning away from the mind . . . and creativity . . . stripping itself down, like all decaying civilisations, to its magical practices and imprisoning social forms.” He adds later, “No government can survive on Gandhian fantasy; and the spirituality, the solace of a conquered people, which Gandhi turned into a form of national assertion, has soured more obviously into the nihilism that it always was.” Naipaul condemns India again and again for its “intellectual parasitism,” its “intellectual vacuum,” its “emptiness,” the “blankness of its decayed civilisation.” “Indian poverty is more dehumanizing than any machine; and, more than in any machine civilisation, men in India are units, locked up in the straitest obedience by their idea of their dharma. . . . The blight of caste is not only untouchability and the consequent deification in India of filth; the blight, in an India that tries to grow, is also the overall obedience it imposes, . . . the diminishing of adventurousness, the pushing away from men of individuality and the possibility of excellence.”   Sanjeev --- On Sat, 31/3/12, GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Arjun]

Dr Ambekar,  Kulkarni is  a just a man friday a gunga din so naturally he quoted from naipauls early books when naipaul himself was to be brown sahib while wife beating and visiting prostitutes probably want kulkarni wants to do himself but then later on when Naipaul grew up  and got over his hang ups then he writes this years later

“To speak of Hindu fundamentalism, is a contradiction in terms, it does not exist. Hinduism is not this kind of religion. You know, there are no laws in Hinduism.”

and “The older I get, the more Hindu I become. “

The key Hindu concept of dharma – the right way, the sanctioned way, which all men must follow, according to their natures – is an elastic concept. At its noblest it combines self-fulfillment and truth to the self with the ideas of action as duty, action as its own spiritual reward, man as a holy vessel. India was trampled over, fought over. You had the invasions and you had the absence of a response to them. There was an absence even of the idea of a people, of a nation defending itself. Only now are people beginning to understand that there has been a great vandalizing of India. The movement is now from below. It has to be dealt with. It is not enough to abuse these youths or use that fashionable word from Europe, ‘fascism’, There is a big, historical development going on in India. What is happening in India is a new historical awakening….Indian intellectuals, who want to be secure in their liberal beliefs, may not understand what is going on. But every other Indian knows precisely what is happening: deep down he knows that a larger response is emerging even if at times this response appears in his eyes to be threatening.
Indian intellectuals have a responsibility to the state and should start a debate on the Muslim psyche, To speak of
Hindu fundamentalism, is a contradiction in terms, it does not exist. Hinduism is not this kind of religion. You know, there are no laws in Hinduism.

I think when you see so many Hindu temples of the tenth century or earlier time disfigured, defaced, you know that they were not just defaced for fun: that something terrible happened. I feel that the civilization of that closed world was mortally wounded by those invasions. And I would like people, as it were, to be more reverential towards the past, to try to understand it; to preserve it; instead of living in its ruins. The Old World is destroyed. That has to be understood. The ancient Hindu India was destroyed.
The older I get, the more Hindu I become.

---

From: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
nd.'

Explaining  Vedic / Sanatan / Hindu Dharma's philosophy or it's foundations is like the story of Six blind men trying to define how the body of Elephant constitute. 

[Arjun]

kulkarni and all these hindu bashers and haters who come from hindu backgrounds suffer from the same complex as wife beaters do who cant stand up and fight the world because they are too cowardly but come home and beat the wife in this case hindusim to make themselves feel strong .Its the same psychology

---

From: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>

Cc: sanjeev kulkarni <jeevku...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "bhano...@gmail.com" <bhano...@gmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; "radhakr...@yahoo.co.in" <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>; "ar_sudh...@yahoo.com" <ar_sudh...@yahoo.com>; "agni...@gmail.com" <agni...@gmail.com>; "aryam...@gmail.com" <aryam...@gmail.com>; "danan...@yahoo.com" <danan...@yahoo.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2012, 12:05

Subject: Re: To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

Every one who criticises Hindu Philosophy or Dharma takes his/her lessons from the Western point of view of Hindu Dharma. They only know Monotheism, Untouchability, casteism and call Ramayan and Mahabharat as Myths. This is out of poor understanding of self and their own ancestors. 

[Arjun]

i dont watch trash like bollywood mate as I have standards and self respect i leave it to jokers like u to watch and dance like baboons to

---

From: sanjeev kulkarni <jeevku...@yahoo.com>

To: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "bhano...@gmail.com" <bhano...@gmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; "radhakr...@yahoo.co.in" <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>; "ar_sudh...@yahoo.com" <ar_sudh...@yahoo.com>; "agni...@gmail.com" <agni...@gmail.com>; "aryam...@gmail.com" <aryam...@gmail.com>; "danan...@yahoo.com" <danan...@yahoo.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 10 April 2012, 5:04

Subject: Re: To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

People like Arjun are very brave against the whistle blowers who are trying to save them by waking them up to the reality.  But these brave Arjuns will put their tails between the legs when bollywood films show muslim heroes and Hindu anti-national villains or when muslims demand reservation even after getting 100% of Pakistan. Where your bravery vanishes mr Arjun ?   Sanjeev --- On Tue, 10/4/12, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[Arjun]

i dont sleep walk or hide behind a PC giving advice to others to do their dirty work.Im out there already fighting the evil while cowards like you can only pass gass and stink everyone up with your nonsense..

---

From: sanjeev kulkarni <jeevku...@yahoo.com>

om>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 10 April 2012, 5:17

Subject: Re: To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

Sleep walking chimp, your closing eyes will not make the reality around you vanish. It will have more deadly manifestation.  You think just because you do not watch something others will not use it successfully against you ?  Wake up baby.  You need a reality check.   Sasnjeev

[Arjun]

you havent even studied any of the other views but continue to fart yesterdays pakoras

---

From: sanjeev kulkarni <jeevku...@yahoo.com>

To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>; ranjeet singh <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "bhano...@gmail.com" <bhano...@gmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; "radhakr...@yahoo.co.in" <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>; "ar_sudh...@yahoo.com" <ar_sudh...@yahoo.com>; "agni...@gmail.com" <agni...@gmail.com>; "aryam...@gmail.com" <aryam...@gmail.com>; "danan...@yahoo.com" <danan...@yahoo.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 10 April 2012, 4:57

Subject: Re: To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

I was only pointing out that as you quote Aurobindo, Sitaram Goel etc. there are other views too on the subject.  Unless you study both and are able to reply to the criticism the whole exercise of your studies is one sided and only for praising whatever you have accidentally inherited - accident of your birth in a particular family or nation or religion that is.  In fact the saying applies to you also.   Sanjeev --- On Tue, 10/4/12, ranjeet singh <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: ranjeet singh <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

To: "Arjun" <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>, "sanjeev kulkarni" <jeevku...@yahoo.com> Date: Tuesday, 10 April, 2012, 5:01 PM   There was a common saying in the former North-West Province of India: ‘allah kaa gawaah moosaa’ (i.e., Allah has His witness in Moosaa). How aptly it befits Mr. Sanjeev Kulkarni when he quotes Naipaul in support of his contention on Hindu Dharma?    Dr. Ranjeet Singh

[Arjun]

when we invented the zero we had no idea we were going to end up with a zero like you whose only contribution to humanity is a  zero.Why dont you prove us wrong and go out there and become a hero then sitting around like a zero

---

From: sanjeev kulkarni <jeevku...@yahoo.com>

talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; "radhakr...@yahoo.co.in" <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>; "ar_sudh...@yahoo.com" <ar_sudh...@yahoo.com>; "agni...@gmail.com" <agni...@gmail.com>; "aryam...@gmail.com" <aryam...@gmail.com>; "danan...@yahoo.com" <danan...@yahoo.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, 10 April 2012, 5:14

Subject: Re: To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

When you invented zero, and what is your contribution to science and maths after that ? You have been sleeping or unconscious for how many centuries now ?  When you have to take pride what your ancestors did several thousand years ago, can you explain the gap of several thousand years now ?  Instead of writing eulogy of your ancestors you should feel ashamed of your wretched existence in this century in India.  Do you know what a miserable lot Hindus have become even in India ?   Sanjeev

--- On Mon, 9/4/12, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

To: "sanjeev kulkarni" <jeevku...@yahoo.com>, "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>, "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>, "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>, "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>, "bhano...@gmail.com" <bhano...@gmail.com>, "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>, "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>, "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>, "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>, "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>, "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>, "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>, "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>, "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>, "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>, "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>, "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>, "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>, "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>, "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>, "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>, "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>, "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>, "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>, "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>, "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>, "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>, "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>, "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>, "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>, "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>, "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>, "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>, "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>, "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>, "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>, "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>, "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>, "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>, "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>, "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>, "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>, "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>, "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>, "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>, "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>, "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>, "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>, "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>, "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>, "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>, "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>, "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>, "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>, "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>, "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>, "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>, "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>, "radhakr...@yahoo.co.in" <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>, "ar_sudh...@yahoo.com" <ar_sudh...@yahoo.com>, "agni...@gmail.com" <agni...@gmail.com>, "aryam...@gmail.com" <aryam...@gmail.com>, "danan...@yahoo.com" <danan...@yahoo.com>, "GOUTAM CHATTERJEE" <gchatt...@gmail.com>

[Arjun]

who are you to give advice hiding behind a PC ? You have absolute no knowledge on Hinduism or history .No wonder you quote naipauls early works condemning Hinduism  to only get slapped in the face later with what he says later praising Hinduism..You are a typical gunga din and a Man friday who no one will ever take serious..Instead of passing pakora gass go out and do something first..

---

From: sanjeev kulkarni <jeevku...@yahoo.com>

2...@yahoo.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 10 April 2012, 21:27

Subject: Re: To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

It is good to note you are fighting the evil.  But besides just fighting without application of brain, you will go no where.  I have noticed your stupidity on two counts (1) If some one points deficiencies in your with the intention of improving you should not consider that since the other person is criticising he must be an enemy or enemy agent.  Some of the Hindus I came across hold this mistaken view.  With this attitude, you will consider even your doctor as enemy if he points out what is wrong with you. and (2)you go on personal attack instead of addressing points raised by me.which is considered fallacy in rational thinking. If you do not agree with me, you are free to question my facts or knock down my logic. But calling me gungadin shows who is gungadin in reality.  Hop, you have intellectual capacity to understand these things !

[Arjun]

Something very interesting from a new blog exposing khalistanis

http://b484.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/khalistani-classic-myths-part-1-2/

Khalistani Classic Myths : Part 1

MYTH _ The Sikh Raj (or empire of Ranjit Singh) fell due to the treachery of the Hindus.#

FACT:

An important component of the Ranjit Singh’s empire was the hill regions of present day Himachal Pradesh and Jammu stretching into the mountainous regions of what is today northern Pakistan.

The Jamwal family – otherwise known as the three Dogra brothers were in defacto control over this region and during the lifetime of Ranjit Singh remained loyal to him.

In the bloodthirsty aftermath of the death of the king various factions jockeyed for power in the name of his sons – The Dogra brothers found themselves arranged against the Sandhawalia sardars of the Majha region. In the feuding the Dhian Singh and his son were murdered as well as the third Dogra brother Suchet Singh – Gulab Singh the sole surviving brother retreated towards his home base in Jammu after making a larger payment to the Sikh kingdom. The Sandhawalias took the clandestine support of the British in these struggles even to the extent of intriguing with the enemies of the states whilst the Dogras were campaigning in Gilgit and in Tibet to spread the empire.

In the following Anglo Sikh wars Gulab Singh cited the treachery of the Sikh sardaars in not providing military help to them on the very understandable grounds that they had slaughtered his brothers, his nephew and his son

The Sandhawalias and Majithia families made peace with the English and today remain one of the most influential families in Punjab

Ranjit Singh’s army had Hindus from the hill regions, trained sepoy battalions from Bhojpur and Bihar, Hindu Gurkhas and many Brahmin generals like Mokham Chand, Diwan chand, Ram Dyal, Mul Raj, Sawan Mal etc all of whom fought and died for the Sikh Empire.

Sikh historians have placed the entire blame on the Hindus

MYTH: The Sikhs had an independent state before their defeat by the British and this is the basis of modern day support for Khalistan

FACT:

The rise of the Sikh Confederacy in the mid to late 1700’s was under the rise of 12 major groups known as Misls – geographically they were arranged variously under regional leaders from the Majha, Doab and Malwa areas.

The Malwa area (today – Ludhiana, Patiala, Fardikot, Nabha, Jind etc) were governed by 5 misls with the prime leadership under the Rajahs of Patiala – they contained more than half of the Sikh population.

They first allied with the Afghans giving submission to Ahmed Shah Abdali (1759-1769)

They then supported the Indian Afghans (Rohillas) in their wars with the Maratha Empire (1772-1788)

They then gave their support to the Maratha Empire under the leadership of Mahadji Sindhia

(1785)

They then supported the British in the Anglo Maratha wars in 1803-1805

They refused to join the nascent Sikh empire under Ranjit Singh

They fought with the British against the Khalsa army in the Anglo Sikh wars and slaughtered the majority of the Budha Dal – the core of the army

However the Sikhs today place the blame on the fall of the Sikh Empire on the Hindus

MYTH : The Sikhs saved the whole of India (read the Hindus) from conversion to Islam

This is probably the most repeated and best known myth

FACT:

The Sikhs were only able to exert effective control over Punjab in around 1770 – even at this stage the Afghans were able to penetrate a few more invasions

FACT :

By 1735-1740 the majority of India made been conquered by the Marathas under their war leader Baji Rao –

The Rajput states were independent by the early 1700’s after their meeting at the Lake Pushkar

The hill regions were independent by the early 1700’s

The Braj region ( south of Delhi) was under the control of the Hindu Jats by the 1750’s

In 1758 the Maratha general Pandit Raghunath Rao defeated Timur Shah Abdali near Lahore and detachments chased the Afghans to Peshawar. He stopped at Amritsar after defeating the Pathans and his troops cleansed the golden temple and lake which had been desecrated by the Muslims – He then made an offering of 1.25 lakh rupees to the temple

The Sikhs ignore all of the above and claim that the ‘ungrateful’ Hindus owe them everything

MYTH ; that the references to the names of Hindu Gods and Goddesses in the Sikh scriptures are not really those same Hindu Gods

FACT ;

Then why have the need to utilise those very names – Why not use neutral terms like Waheguru which are clearly identified as being Sikh ?

Whatever the origins of the usage of names of Rama, Murali, Gopal, Gobinda, Krisha Chadni etc by the time of Guru Nanak these were very clearly identified with the Hindu religion without a shadow of doubt – If the Gurus were making a clean break with Hinduism as is suggested by the neo Sikh scholars then why use terms which would cause such confusion ?

MYTH: Sikhism was a complete break from both Hinduism and Islam

FACT:

Guru Nanak was born in a region which was majority Muslim by the early 1500’s – yet his entire teachings seem to draw from Hindu sources and to a Hindu audience. Very scant references from Islamic usage are utilised in clear contrast to the almost endless usage of Hindu terminology, cosmology and theories.

The Sikhs were almost universally referred to as Hindus by others until the late 1800’s

MYTH ; The Brahmins have always been enemies of Sikhs and are hostile to Sikhism

FACT :

Many Brahmins in fact were Sikhs

In fact the title of Bhai was first given to a Brahmin family from kiratpur from which came Bhai Gurdas, Bhai Budha, Bhai Mati Dass and Bhai Sati Dass –

Their nephew wrote the earliest known Sikh Maryada – Chaupa Singh Chhiber with Kesar Singh – The head of Ranjit Singh’s bodyguard was Brahmin

The descendants of this family fought against British rule – Bhai Paramananda also head of the Hindu Mahasabha and Bhai Mahavir has been the Governor of Madhya Pradesh.

Today the same Brahmins are reviled under a deluge of race hate and caste hate from Sikhs bordering that of Nazi Germany’s depiction of the Jews – Most have now lost all links with Sikhism

MYTH: The Hindus betrayed their mother tongue of Punjabi be declaring Hindu to be their main language

FACT :

Pre 1947 Punjab – Punjabi language was primarily written in Urdu or Persian script – Many of the Hindus began utilising the Devenagari script to write Punjabi

Gurumukhi was used solely for Sikh religious scriptures.

The Sikh religious and political bodies lobbied for the imposition of Gurumukhi on all the population despite the Sikhs not being in a majority in the province.

Eventually Punjab was divided again to appease the Sikhs

To be Continued.

[Dr. Madhukar Ambekar]

Explaining  Vedic / Sanatan / Hindu Dharma's philosophy or it's foundations is like the story of Six blind men trying to define how the body of Elephant constitute. 

On 9 Apr 2012, at 17:35, Arjun wrote:

[Dr. Madhukar Ambekar]

Every one who criticises Hindu Philosophy or Dharma takes his/her lessons from the Western point of view of Hindu Dharma. They only know Monotheism, Untouchability, casteism and call Ramayan and Mahabharat as Myths. This is out of poor understanding of self and their own ancestors. 

[ranjeet singh]

There was a common saying in the former North-West Province of India: ‘allah kaa gawaah moosaa’ (i.e., Allah has His witness in Moosaa). How aptly it befits Mr. Sanjeev Kulkarni when he quotes Naipaul in support of his contention on Hindu Dharma?    Dr. Ranjeet Singh

--- On Mon, 9/4/12, Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

To: "sanjeev kulkarni" <jeevku...@yahoo.com>, "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>, "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>, "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>, "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>, "bhano...@gmail.com" <bhano...@gmail.com>, "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>, "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>, "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>, "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>, "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>, "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>, "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>, "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>, "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>, "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>, "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>, "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>, "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>, "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>, "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>, "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>, "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>, "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>, "drmna...@yahoo.co.uk" <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>, "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>, "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>, "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>, "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>, "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>, "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>, "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>, "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>, "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>, "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>, "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>, "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>, "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>, "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>, "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>, "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>, "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>, "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>, "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>, "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>, "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>, "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>, "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>, "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>, "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>, "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>, "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>, "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>, "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>, "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>, "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>, "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>, "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>, "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>, "radhakr...@yahoo.co.in" <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>, "ar_sudh...@yahoo.com" <ar_sudh...@yahoo.com>, "agni...@gmail.com" <agni...@gmail.com>, "aryam...@gmail.com" <aryam...@gmail.com>, "danan...@yahoo.com" <danan...@yahoo.com>, "GOUTAM CHATTERJEE" <gchatt...@gmail.com> Date: Monday, 9 April, 2012, 17:35

[Trishool]

“To speak of Hindu fundamentalism, is a contradiction in terms, it does not exist. Hinduism is not this kind of religion. You know, there are no laws in Hinduism.”

and “The older I get, the more Hindu I become. “

Excellent. !

YOU CAN DENY BEING A HINDU, YET YOU WILL BE A HINDU. THE HINDU CONSCIOUSLY AND SUBCONSCIOUSLY, LIVES A NOBLE, PEACEFUL, LIFE. !  ( Baburao Patel )

KUCH BAAT HAI, KE HASTI, MIT TEE NAHIN HAMARI

SADIYOON RAHA HAI DUSHMAN, DAUR E ZAMAAN HAMARA   ( Iqbal )

Trishool     

---

From: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>

Cc: sanjeev kulkarni <jeevku...@yahoo.com>; "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "bhano...@gmail.com" <bhano...@gmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; "radhakr...@yahoo.co.in" <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>; "ar_sudh...@yahoo.com" <ar_sudh...@yahoo.com>; "agni...@gmail.com" <agni...@gmail.com>; "aryam...@gmail.com" <aryam...@gmail.com>; "danan...@yahoo.com" <danan...@yahoo.com>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 12:05 PM
Subject: (Desiyatra)-- Re: To Sanjeev Kulkarni from Goutam Chatterjee: '...the Veda remains to us our Rock of the Ages, our eternal foundation....'. ‘The Veda was the beginning of our spiritual knowledge; the Veda will remain its end.'

[bhagwat goel]

ALL TEN GURUS WERE HINDUS .WHAT THEY CALL SIKHS WERE ARMY CREATED BY GURU GOBIND SINGH & 5 K's WERE ARMOUR OF JAWANS.

[Arjun]

There are many hindu orgs that are doing work on the ground but we need to expand even more to help fellow hindus like this.And we also know xitian exploiters missions and commies are always looking for victims like this

Starving in India: Surviving on Toxic Roots

By Ashwin Parulkar

This article is the third in a six-part series. You can view the first installment of the series here and the second here.

HINDIYANKALAN, India – One afternoon last November, 10 people in this eastern Indian village sat in a circle on a dirt road and told us about their fight against hunger. We wanted to know: What would drive a person to eat a poisoned root?

I was on a research assignment with my colleague Ankita Aggarwal from the Centre for Equity Studies, a New Delhi think tank. It was part of a broader investigation we are conducting of government responses to starvation deaths as India debates sweeping reforms to its food policies.

Hindiyankalan – a drought-stricken village in Chatra district in Jharkhand state that has no electricity and is six miles from the nearest paved road – was a good place to examine how the weakest communities in Indian society, the indigenous tribes, are confronting chronic hunger.

Tribal communities are worse off than India’s average on a host of malnutrition indicators. For example, 54% of their children under five years old are underweight compared with the 43% national average, according to India’s national family health survey. So-called “primitive tribes” like the Birhors of Hindiyankalan are in even worse condition.

We were also interested to see whether it makes a difference when a tragic incident gets widespread attention. The starvation deaths we were investigating in Hindiyankalan happened in early October 2008 and sparked a wave of initial media outrage. The chief minister of Jharkhand later instituted a state-wide program that promised all primitive tribal groups free grains. The state also ordered local village councils to maintain emergency stocks of about a half a ton of grain to prevent starvation deaths.

Yet by the time we visited, it was clear there was confusion among government departments on how to follow through on those and other promises and, more worrisome, there was a general reluctance to acknowledge starvation deaths and address their primary causes.

As we sat chatting with the villagers, we heard families describe how difficult it was to get government-subsidized grains and how poorly other government welfare programs were functioning. They told us that children only receive government-mandated mid-day meals in school four or five days per month. (The village school is closed on the remaining days, partly because of a lack of staff.) They told us how family members were forced to migrate to far-away states in search of work as contracted laborers because there were no local jobs.

Sahria Devi, a 65-year-old widow, sat next to us, alert but quiet. She wore a nose ring and a red, yellow, and blue sari. Deep wrinkles lined her forehead.

Afterward we met her outside her small brick home at the end of a narrow dirt path lined with bushes. She was busy working, carving a stick of bamboo with a sheering knife – a step in the process of making a soop, a basket used to separate husk from rice. A group gathered around us while she recollected the days of October 2008.

The story actually starts much earlier, she explained. Villagers had been unable to get discounted grains from the government since 1998, despite clearly meeting the “below poverty line” threshold for such benefits. Only four food ration cards had been distributed to them since 2000, according to an investigation by a state activist who advises the Supreme Court on hunger issues. The investigation also found that the grain shop dealer in the area was selling grains on the open market and falsifying records to make it look like villagers were actually getting their food delivered.

“My family was starving”, she said.

The Birhors, whose population is estimated at around 10,000, had a history as farmers and hunters and traders of forest produce.  Today, the community survives by collecting and selling honey and wood from the forest and selling soops for 15 rupees (30 U.S. cents) each.

Ms. Devi’s family’s only source of income in 2008 was from selling soops.  The rate then was seven rupees (14 cents). She, her three sons – Lalan, Anil, and Sunil – and two daughter-in-laws could make two or three per day. It was never enough to feed the household’s eight people, including her grandsons, Kuldeep and Korhiya, who were two and four years old at the time. Sometimes, the family would trade in soops for one kilogram of rice.

The family was legally entitled to a ration card from the national “Antyodaya Anna Yojana” program, which would allow it to get 35 kilograms of grain at highly discounted prices. The Supreme Court had ordered in 2003 that all primitive tribal groups should qualify – part of a series of orders in the Court’s longstanding “right to food” public interest case. But Ms. Devi couldn’t get a card, despite her pleas with local leaders.

Ashwin Parulkar for The Wall Street Journal

Families in Hindiyankalan rely on making soops (winnowing baskets used to separate the husk from grain) to earn a living. Pictured, a woman made scoops in Hindiyankalan.

In fact, none of the programs the Court has mandated were working properly. The village didn’t, for example, have an Integrated Child Development Services center, which is supposed to guarantee all children under the age of six, adolescent girls, and pregnant mothers free supplementary meals of adequate protein and nutrients. Instead, the service ran out of one villager’s home, where kichidi (rice and lentils) was provided to children two or three days per month.

More In Starving-in-India

• Starving in India: It Isn't All About Food
• Video: Starvation Deaths Persist in Rural India
• Live Chat: Starving in India
• Starving in India: A Fight for Life in Bihar
• Starving in India: The Forgotten Problem

Ms. Devi’s family, like the rest of the Hindiyankalan Birhors, survived on next to nothing: a bit of rice, which they would eat once daily with chakora, a local spinach, and a wild root known as gethi. Gethi is poisonous. The toxins are drained by steeping the root in water for 24 to 40 hours.

On the night of Oct. 1, 2008 villagers were so hungry they could not wait to detoxify the gethi, so 20 to 25 people ate the raw root and fell ill. They vomited and suffered bouts of diarrhea.  The nearest hospital was just 13 kilometers away, but villagers couldn’t get the sick people there. None of the Birhors in Hindiyankalan have a motorized vehicle. They generally carry patients to the hospital manually on a cot, but the journey, which involves navigating unpaved roads with deep ditches and sharp rocks, is too dangerous to do at night.

Eight people died in the village that night. Among them were Ms. Devi’s two grandchildren and her daughter-in-law, Jethi Devi, who was Lalan’s wife.

Deputy Commissioner Manoj Kumar, the senior-most bureaucrat in the region, acknowledged that the Birhors are suffering and said the state is committed to preventing starvation deaths.  “It is true that Hindiyankalan is one of the most neglected regions,” he said.  He said vacancies in key administrative posts are to blame for the failure to implement policies to improve the lives of tribal communities in the area.

That October, Indian newspapers such as Naya Duniya, Dainik Jagran, Hindustan Times, and Prabhat Khabar reported the deaths in over 30 stories.

They documented the defunct public programs, lack of infrastructure, and the struggles people in Hindiyankalan faced to survive. They reported 35 starvation deaths of people classified as primitive tribals throughout the state in that single month. They reported the shocking fact that desperate villagers ate poisoned food to stay alive.

Numerous public officials visited the village in response to public pressure.  Jharkhand’s then-Chief Minister, Shibu Soren, launched the “Mukhyamantri Khadyan Sahayata Yojana,” which entitled all primitive tribals to 35 kilograms of grain free of charge. New ration cards were distributed to all villagers immediately. Those steps had some positive effects. Today, villagers do have access to the local ration shop on a monthly basis. But they say they are only getting about 25 kilograms of their food benefit.

The causes of the deaths became controversial. According to news reports, Jharkhand’s health minister, Bhanu Pratap Sahi, met with families of victims and acknowledged that shoddy implementation of the government’s food and work programs was denying Birhors their legal entitlements.  But Mr. Sahi and other local officials concluded that the deaths were due to food poisoning. Villagers believed it was obvious that food deprivation was the root cause.

The state government ordered an official investigation into the causes of death to settle the controversy. The four-member investigation committee – comprised of the state’s Welfare Secretary, Food and Civil Supplies Secretary, Rural Development Secretary and Health Secretary — didn’t go to the village. Citing the threat of Maoist rebels who are active in the area, they instead summoned the Birhors to a meeting in a nearby town. The report they submitted to Jharkhand’s chief secretary on Oct. 31, 2008, did raise questions about the government’s poor delivery of social services.  But it concluded that the cause of death was food poisoning.  No autopsies were conducted on the bodies.

The Supreme Court has ordered that officials must investigate and then fix any failures in food-delivery programs immediately after any starvation deaths occur. Chief secretaries of states – the top bureaucrats – can be held accountable for not following through and showing progress. Fixing the programs would mean some heavy lifting – filling large numbers of vacancies in administrative posts, replacing under-performing government officers and increasing coordination between programs that now operate in silos.

Officials responsible for nutrition and health programs, for example, acknowledge that chronic hunger and malnutrition afflict the people of Hindiyankalan.  But their primary concerns are to meet the mandates of their respective departments. “There is a lot of malnutrition here,” said Ravinder Lal, a physician at the government medical facility nearest to the village.  “But we’re from the medical side.  We can only treat health problems.”

Click on image to enlarge.

Dr. Lal was part of a team of physicians, led by Shivshankar Pandey, that visited Hindiyankalan after the deaths and concluded food poisoning was the cause.  Dr. Pandey and his team gave out mosquito nets and medicines and took blood samples of 50 people who were sick with malaria.  They also administered saline solution to 15 villagers for dehydration.

Balaram, an activist who goes by only one name and is the state’s advisor to the Supreme Court on hunger-related matters, was with us when we met Dr. Lal. He told the doctor that his own investigation a few days after the deaths found evidence of severe malnutrition in the area. All children in the village were underweight, he said.

My colleague Ankita and I told Dr. Lal that before people decided to eat the poisoned roots out of desperation, they were living with chronic hunger. They had not been able to get government-subsidized grains for 10 years. We wanted to know if this was taken into consideration during the official team’s investigation.

“Do you agree that these people weren’t receiving subsidized food grains at the time of the deaths?” I asked.

“Perhaps,” Dr. Lal said. “I am not willing to say.  That is (the people’s) problem.”

Starvation is a brutal but little-discussed reality in India. The Wall Street Journal’s India Real Time is publishing a six-part series on starvation, showcasing the findings of an investigation by the Centre for Equity Studies, a New Delhi think tank that is researching hunger and advocating reforms of India’s food policies. The series of essays documents the stories of starvation victims, explores the primary causes of their deaths, and argues fiercely that India must overhaul its broken food security system. We welcome your comments and feedback.

And you can ask questions now for a live chat with the series creators on Monday, April 16, here.

	Paro Devi, 40 The death of Ms. Devi’s husband was the first reported starvation death in the village of Manjhladih. Neighbors told us in a group meeting—with Ms. Devi present—that hers was the “poorest family in the village.” She earns about half a kilo of rice a day by cleaning houses in the village. Part 1: A Systematic Failure
	Tulsi Manjhi, age unknown Mr. Manjhi says that in the five years since the hunger-related deaths of his wife, daughter-in-law and infant daughter, the family’s food situation has improved because “more of the children are able to work.” Part 2: A Fight for Life in Bihar
	Saharia Devi, 65 Ms. Devi lost two grandchildren and her daughter-in-law in October 2008, after they attempted to stave off hunger by eating a forest root that turned out to be poisonous. Part 3: Surviving on Toxic Roots
	Munni Devi, 22 Ms. Devi gave birth to Kanhaiya, eight days before we visted Heta village to talk with her about the deaths of her father-in-law and brother-in-law, who died within hours of one another after suffering chronic illnesses and going days without food.

[Poonam Abbi]

THANKX...this is needed to prevent the history becoming the delude of lies told by traitors, plunderers, mercenaries & rapisis, arsonists & robbers to gloss over their barbaric acts

From: Arjun <arjun...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "aryam...@gmail.com" <aryam...@gmail.com>; "radhakr...@yahoo.co.in" <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; "agni...@gmail.com" <agni...@gmail.com>
Cc: "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "bhano...@gmail.com" <bhano...@gmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "ar_sudh...@yahoo.com" <ar_sudh...@yahoo.com>; "danan...@yahoo.com" <danan...@yahoo.com>

[rajesh pawar]

Kulkarni and that "desperate to become White" Naipul should Fuck themselves.

--
Rajesh

[Trishool]

Fw: Stupid is, as stupid does

FROM:

TO:

 
 
 

Message flagged

Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:09 PM

  
 

Sent as received from an American 

Stupid is, as stupid does.  Pause a moment, reflect back. These events are actual events from  history..  They really happened!!!  Do you remember? 1. In 1968, Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed  by a Muslim male. 2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by Muslim males.     3. In 1972 a Pan Am 747 was hijacked and eventually diverted to Cairo  where a fuse was lit on final approach and it was blown up shortly after landing by Muslim males.     4. In 1973 a Pan Am 707 was destroyed in Rome , with 33 people killed, when it was attacked with grenades by Muslim males.   5. In 1979, the US embassy  in Iran was taken over by Muslim males. 6. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by Muslim males. 7. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Muslim males. 8. In 1985, the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked  and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered  and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by Muslim males. 9. In 1985, TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens ,  and a US Navy diver trying to rescue  passengers was murdered by Muslim males. 10. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim males. 11. In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by Muslim males. 12. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim males. 13. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take down  the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon  and the other was diverted and crashed  by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by Muslim males. 14. In 2002, the United States fought a war in Afghanistan  against Muslim males. 15. In 2002, reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and beheaded by--- you guessed it--- Muslim males. No, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you? So, to ensure  we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people... Absolutely No Profiling! They must conduct random searches of  80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and  Medal of Honor winner and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males alone lest they be guilty of profiling. Have the American People completely lost their Minds, or just their Power of Reason???  Let's send this to as many people as we  can so that the Gloria Aldreds and other stupid attorneys along with Federal Justices that want to thwart common sense, feel ashamed of themselves -- if they have any such sense. As the writer of the award  winning story 'Forrest Gump' so aptly put it, 'Stupid Is As Stupid Does' Each opportunity that you have to send it to a friend or media outlet...do it!

 

 

 

---

From: Poonam Abbi <poona...@yahoo.com>
To: "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: (Desiyatra)-- Khalistani Classic Myths : Part 1

[Trishool]

ALL GREAT SIKH GURUS, AND SIKHS, ARE BRAVE SONS OF HINDUS.

SIKHS ARE OUR BRAVE HINDU BROTHERS, AND PRIDE OF BHARAT. 

SO CALLED KHILSTANIS, ARE NOT PART OF INDIAN SIKH COMMUNITY, THEY ARE PAID PUPPETS OF PAKISTANI AGENTS, AND DANCING AT THEIR TUNES.

I HAD MANY HOT COMMUNICATIONS WITH DR. SEKHON, AND HIS ASSOCIATES, IN PAST, THEY HAVE FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH RETIRED PAKISTANI BRIGADIER, USMAN KHALID, WHO OPERATES ANTI INDIA, PROPAGANDA, MISSION, IN THE NAME OF LISA, FROM BRITAIN.   

Tr.    

---

From: bhagwat goel <bhagwat...@yahoo.co.in>
To: "desi...@googlegroups.com" <desi...@googlegroups.com>; Dr. Madhukar Ambekar <drmna...@yahoo.co.uk>; GOUTAM CHATTERJEE <gchatt...@gmail.com>; "aryam...@gmail.com" <aryam...@gmail.com>; "radhakr...@yahoo.co.in" <radhakr...@yahoo.co.in>; "rajpa...@yahoo.com" <rajpa...@yahoo.com>; "agni...@gmail.com" <agni...@gmail.com>
Cc: "shyam_n...@yahoo.com" <shyam_n...@yahoo.com>; "bcm...@gmail.com" <bcm...@gmail.com>; "satish...@yahoo.com" <satish...@yahoo.com>; "psab...@hotmail.com" <psab...@hotmail.com>; "bhano...@gmail.com" <bhano...@gmail.com>; "hita...@gmail.com" <hita...@gmail.com>; "kata...@aol.com" <kata...@aol.com>; "sadhak_...@yahoo.com" <sadhak_...@yahoo.com>; "jitender...@gmail.com" <jitender...@gmail.com>; "kri...@hindupedia.com" <kri...@hindupedia.com>; "shankara...@yahoo.com" <shankara...@yahoo.com>; "london...@yahoo.co.uk" <london...@yahoo.co.uk>; "tinasa...@yahoo.com" <tinasa...@yahoo.com>; "irmamuns...@gmail.com" <irmamuns...@gmail.com>; "sande...@hotmail.com" <sande...@hotmail.com>; "ani...@yahoo.co.uk" <ani...@yahoo.co.uk>; "govind...@hotmail.com" <govind...@hotmail.com>; "rishi...@hotmail.com" <rishi...@hotmail.com>; "ranbir...@talktalk.net" <ranbir...@talktalk.net>; "culturalbri...@yahoo.com" <culturalbri...@yahoo.com>; "tcgm...@hotmail.com" <tcgm...@hotmail.com>; "vyshv...@gmail.com" <vyshv...@gmail.com>; "live_by...@yahoo.co.uk" <live_by...@yahoo.co.uk>; "rsin...@yahoo.com" <rsin...@yahoo.com>; "brah...@yahoo.com" <brah...@yahoo.com>; "aryasam...@yahoogroups.com" <aryasam...@yahoogroups.com>; "aryayou...@yahoogroups.com" <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com>; "bhagav...@yahoo.ca" <bhagav...@yahoo.ca>; "akansh...@yahoo.com" <akansh...@yahoo.com>; "arya...@hotmail.com" <arya...@hotmail.com>; "mish...@aol.com" <mish...@aol.com>; "msb...@yahoo.com" <msb...@yahoo.com>; "naveen...@yahoo.co.in" <naveen...@yahoo.co.in>; "arun_...@yahoo.com" <arun_...@yahoo.com>; "jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in" <jeetbh...@yahoo.co.in>; "puneet...@gmail.com" <puneet...@gmail.com>; "ashwini...@yahoo.ca" <ashwini...@yahoo.ca>; "eka...@btinternet.com" <eka...@btinternet.com>; "jayasw...@gmail.com" <jayasw...@gmail.com>; "as_...@rediffmail.com" <as_...@rediffmail.com>; "baksh...@yahoo.com" <baksh...@yahoo.com>; "skan...@gmail.com" <skan...@gmail.com>; "op.t...@gmail.com" <op.t...@gmail.com>; "bharat...@gmail.com" <bharat...@gmail.com>; "ahven...@gmail.com" <ahven...@gmail.com>; "gir...@aryasamaj.com" <gir...@aryasamaj.com>; "arr...@ameritech.net" <arr...@ameritech.net>; "vijaya...@yahoo.com" <vijaya...@yahoo.com>; "ashoks...@rediffmail.com" <ashoks...@rediffmail.com>; "satyar...@gmail.com" <satyar...@gmail.com>; "vsg...@yahoo.com" <vsg...@yahoo.com>; "arya.v...@gmail.com" <arya.v...@gmail.com>; "kcg...@yahoo.com" <kcg...@yahoo.com>; "su_...@ymail.com" <su_...@ymail.com>; "ajaya...@gmail.com" <ajaya...@gmail.com>; "ar_sudh...@yahoo.com" <ar_sudh...@yahoo.com>; "danan...@yahoo.com" <danan...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: (Desiyatra)-- Khalistani Classic Myths : Part 1

[Arjun]

Khalistani Classic Myths : Part 2

http://b484.wordpress.com/2012/04/13/khalistani-classic-myths-part-2/

Continuing with our expose of Khalistani myths and hate against Hindus.

MYTH: Sikhs don’t believe in the caste system unlike the Hindus who are riddled with caste

To bolster this myth many Sikhs eschew caste surnames and instead adopt the name of town of their birth – i.e. Balwant Singh Rajoana – Jarnail Singh Bhindrenwala or alternatively by their profession like Harjit Singh Solicitor

FACT :

There is probably not a single Sikh who is unaware of his caste origin. Beneath the veneer of a casteless society the dominant Jat caste proudly exclaim their caste pride in numerous songs and saying – The Khatri Sikhs are equally proficient in proclaiming their mercantile abilities and caste groupings and their caste link with the line of the Gurus.The Gurus themselves only married into their own castes and also arranged their children to do so.

The Mazhabi Sikhs are at the bottom of the Sikh caste system and have recently had one of their prominent religious leaders murdered by upper caste Khalistani fanatics in a Sikh Temple in Vienna, Austria – Many are moving to create their own ‘Ravidassia’ religion to escape the terrible inequalities that they suffer

Caste violence in rife in rural areas and attempts for the Dalit Sikhs to escape or to follow their own religious preferences are met with both mob and state violence from the Khalistanis and their fellow travellers in the establishment

The few Brahmins who are Sikh tend to hide their caste origins to escape censure and opprobrium from the other Sikhs- In general the Brahmins are views with much the same prejudice as suffered by the Jews in pre-war Nazi Germany.

The Hindus all over India have actually made progress in the removal of caste prejudice in India – Persons from all castes are now able to become Pandits and religious Gurus and to reach political positions such as the President of India and the Chief Minister of various states.

MYTH: The sikhs gave over 90% of the sacrifices for Indian freedom

FACT :

This is another popular myth amongst the Khalistani fan club – this was a figure repeated ad nausea until it has become almost folklore

What they don’t tell you is that the figure has conveniently ignored hue mass movements like the Quit India movement of 1942 (over 10,000 hanged or shot by the British) the rising of 1857 (nearly one million people killed) and numerous other non-violent and violence revolutionaries across India

They also include movements like the Akali movement which was solely for the right to run the Sikh gurudwaras

The true figure is nearer 5%

Yet this myth of 90% has displayed to show yet more ‘Hindu ingratitude’

MYTH:Bhagat Singh became a Sikh again before his hanging by the British

FACT :

This has become popularised by the Khalistanis to the point that the Sikh Chief Minister of Punjab threatened trouble in of the stature of Bhagat Singh in the Indian Parliament was not show with a turban and beard

Photos of his earlier incarceration in prison when he still wore a turban are misrepresented as being his later photos – Furthermore later photos are morphed to place a turban on his head and shaded for a beard – The depth and extent of the deception is breath taking and very characteristic of Khalistani myths.

The myth began when Bhagat Singh was challenged in prison by Randhir Singh the leader of the ultra-fanatic Akhand Kirtani Jatha (A.K.J.) for cutting his hair and removing his turban.

Bhagat Singh was so moved by the insults heaped on him by the religious zealot Randhir Singh his wrote his famous essay ‘Why I became an atheist’

Bhagat Singhs writings and the testimony of his own family are not enough for the Khalistanis though – They insist on showing Bhagat Singh as a Sikh and threaten dire consequences to those who disagree

‘I have read of atheists facing all troubles quite boldly; so am I trying to stand like a man with an erect head to the last, even on the gallows.

Let us see how I carry on. One friend asked me to pray. When informed of my atheism, he said: “During your last days you will begin to believe.” I said: “No, dear Sir, it shall not be. I will think that to be an act of degradation and demoralisation on my part. For selfish motives I am not going to pray.” Readers and friends: Is this “vanity”? If it is, I stand for it.’

 http://jayajha.wordpress.com/2004/12/01/why-i-am-an-atheist-bhagat-singh/

Bhagat Singh – Sukhdev Thapar and Rajguru

The morphed picture of Bhagat Singh

What Khalistanis don’t want you to know is that the leader of Bhagat Singhs group was a Brahmin Hindu –Chandrasekhar Azad who was eventually killed in a shootout with the British Police.

What they also don’t want you know is that his two colleagues who were hanged with him were Hindus – Rajguru and Sukhdev Thapar – they have almost been wiped from Punjabi folklore for the reason that they were Hindus and who in Khalistani Mythology must be cowardly and cant fight..

‘ Panditji’  Chandrasekhar Azad

MYTH : The revolutionaries like the Ghadar party were inspired by sikhism

FACT ::

The Ghadarites were revolutionaries inspired by Communism led by Lala Hardayal

Their writings and captions all reflect left wing ideology further inspired by the Russian revolution in 1917

The Ghadarite opposed organised religions

Today the khalistanis tell us that the Ghadaraites were devout and practising Sikhs fighting for the freedom of the ungrateful Hindus

Lala Hardayal

MYTH: Bhai Haqiqat Rai was a Sikh martyr

FACT : HAQIQAT RAI was killed in the mid 1700’s for refusing to convert to Islam. His ‘offence’ was to criticise Islam after a Maulvi made insulting references to the Hindu Goddess Durga – he was dragged to the Kotwal and told his only escape was conversion to Islam – He refused and was brutally tortured to death for his refusal Haqiqat Rai had a relation who was Sikh and that was it. The Khalistanis have dubbed him Bhai (Sikh title) and now characterised him as a Sikh Martyr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haqiqat_Rai

Continued in Part 3