ADSL loses sync when the phone rings
ali1234
Ever since the ADSL2+ upgrade (in April) I have been experiencing a
loss of sync whenever the phone rings, and also sometimes randomly
(usually at around 9pm-midnight.) At first I thought it was the modem
retraining to the new speed so I ignored it, but it is becoming
annoying now.
The problem happens *only* when the phone is ringing: as soon as the
phone is answered the router automatically reconnects and stays
connected throughout the call. I can make outgoing calls too with no
problem. The problem occurs even if no phones are connected: I have
tested this using 3 different routers and two different microfilters,
connected to the house's main socket, and with all other phones
disconnected. As soon as I dial my home number from a mobile phone the
router loses sync.
My usual router is a Netgear DG834Gv1 with firmware V3.01.38 (the
newest available.) I can connect using ADSL2+ and get a speeds of
around 12mb down and 1mb up. Using the telnet interface I can force
the router to use the old G.dmt and then i get 4mb down and 0.3mb up.
However, both modes still suffer connection loss when the phone rings.
I have also tested using a Netgear WG814 and a Zoom x5, both of which
do not support ADSL2+, and both suffer from connection loss *only*
when the phone line is ringing. Both work perfectly at G.dmt speeds at
all other times (except for the random disconnects in the evenings.)
Demon helpdesk have so far tried to blame BT and Netgear, and will not
escalate the problem unless I "borrow a newer router from a friend or
neighbour."
BT completely refuse to acknowledge any kind of problem.
I have read a lot of the old posts here about this issue and tried
everything that has already been suggested. But my problem seems
different because I can connect normally with a good connection most
of the time.
So some questions I still have:
The random disconnects suggest to me that I am also being disconnected
when my neighbour's phone rings? This is pure speculation. Is it
possible?
I don't have a NTE5 master socket, so I cannot rule out a problem with
extension wiring. Is this worth investigating?
Demon says there is a known problem with the DG834G. This would be
true as the early firmwares don't support ADSL2+. But mine is fully
upgraded. Are they just flagging it up because most people wont have
upgraded it? Or is there really a problem on these routers?
Given that three routers have the same problem, is a "newer" router
likely to make any difference? Which ones work/will satisfy the
helpdesk that there really is a problem?
Thanks,
Stephen Wolstenholme
<a.j.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Given that three routers have the same problem, is a "newer" router
>likely to make any difference? Which ones work/will satisfy the
>helpdesk that there really is a problem?
The free Thomson router from Demon should satisfy the help desk.
Steve
--
Neural Planner Software Ltd www.NPSL1.com
David Rance
>On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:55:34 -0700 (PDT), ali1234
><a.j.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Given that three routers have the same problem, is a "newer" router
>>likely to make any difference? Which ones work/will satisfy the
>>helpdesk that there really is a problem?
>
>The free Thomson router from Demon should satisfy the help desk.
>
But watch out for the new twelve-month contract.
David
--
David Rance
writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France
nev young
> Hi,
>
> Ever since the ADSL2+ upgrade (in April) I have been experiencing a
> loss of sync whenever the phone rings, and also sometimes randomly
> (usually at around 9pm-midnight.) At first I thought it was the modem
> retraining to the new speed so I ignored it, but it is becoming
> annoying now.
>
> The problem happens *only* when the phone is ringing: as soon as the
> phone is answered the router automatically reconnects and stays
I have just tested this 3 times here and I get the same results.
While the phone is ringing I lose connection.
twice it re-connected by itself.
once I had to reset the router.
The first two times I just watched the router lights.
In the last case the test I did was:
load a web page.
continuously press F5 (to refresh)
phone home from my mobile
Each time after the 2nd ring I lost connectivity.
I am on the Norwich exchange and got ADSL2+ a couple of months ago.
It is a BT line.
My router is a Thompson ST585v6 (not provided by demon).
My voice calls are routed via Tiscali.
Never had this problem before ADSL2+
I have noticed that connection had been lost a few times but had not
tied it in to getting a phone call. I get so few.
Do you think there would be any point in me doing a "me too" with the
help desk.
Do you have a ticket number?
--
Nev
alphanov
wrote:
What a surprise... yet another ADSL2+ dropping sync! I've been having
this problem (but not when incoming calls) since shortly after
changeover and have made many calls to the help(less)desk. I've
finally sent a "snotty" email to them and got the following in reply.
"Following the launch of our 2+ upgrade initiative, a small number of
customers have experienced a drop in their Broadband service. We are
currently working towards the resolution of technical difficulties
that have affected a small number of customers. Unfortunately, it is
difficult for any Internet Service Provider to deliver a service
completely free of technical problems over a prolonged period of time.
To this end we advise our clients; that problems can originate not
only from the technology Demon provide, but also from their own
equipment, or even the services provided by BT that we utilize."
This problem happens with all my modems including the Demon supplied,
and configured, TG585v7.
Small consolation but you are not on your own with this!
--
Nev (another one!)
nev young
>
> Small consolation but you are not on your own with this!
So if I can add up right that's 4 of us here with this problem.
>
> Nev (another one!)
We're a rare breed.
--
Nev
ali1234
anyone though.
nev/alphanov: What's your speed like when the service is working? Mine
is fairly good, and no latency problems, so it seems like a different
problem to the people who just get overall slower speed on 2+. Also
the increase in dropouts between 9pm and midnight seems to be a common
theme. If it is really caused by dodgy routers, why doesn't it happen
randomly all the time?
Anyway, here's what happened today:
This morning I tried customer support. They offered the free router
and 12 month contract, which I declined. 12 months of broken service?
Then asked which modems were compatible and received the answer
"Anything but Netgear and Cisco."
Next I investigated the wiring of the extensions. It was a run into
the (old type) master socket, then back out on the same cable, and
from there to another wall box, feeding all the extensions. This was
trivial to unhook, and of course made no difference to the problem. So
I now have every base covered, and I can get an engineer out without
worrying about the charge, because nothing is connected on my side of
the master, except the router and microfilter, right? Wrong.
Rang technical support again, and after going through the script (yes,
i've tried a different router, filters, unplugged all phones, used the
master socket) - at the end, this time I said I was using the Zoom
router.
The response: They claimed they were going to send the problem to BT,
but they needed to do a line test first. They said this might
disconnect me, but in fact I heard the hold music for a few minutes,
and then the person came back and said the line test showed no error
(just like the one they did yesterday.) They then went through the
"£170 charge" speech, to which I agreed. After another few minutes on
hold they came back and said there was already a fault open on the
voice service with BT, and they could not add a fault report until
that was cleared. Since I had not raised a fault with BT, and BT had
told me there was no fault and to contact Demon, I was confused.
So I rang BT again. They say it is a "LR" left over from the line test
that Demon *asked* me to ask BT to do yesterday (and which returned no
fault), and it does NOT prevent Demon from submitting the fault
report, but they will remove it anyway. They then go through the whole
"data connection problems are your ISP's responsibility, we only
support voice" speech again.
Then I ring Demon again. Now they have no excuses left, and I have an
answer for everything on their script. But I still have to listen to
the support person tell me that he can't submit a fault report on my
behalf. After I argued that the data service was their responsibility
he eventually relented. The turning point went something like this:
Helpdesk: "You wouldn't report a PC fault to your electricity
company."
Me: "A power outage would affect my PC and I would report it to my
electricity company. I am experiencing problems with my internet
service. Are you my internet service provider?"
Helpdesk: "No, but..."
Me: "Are you my internet service provider?"
Helpdesk(sheepish): "...yes. Please hold while I check the details."
After he comes back, he now *can* report the problem to BT and I have
to listen to the £170 charge disclaimer again. But first he wants to
do another line test. "OK" I say. The last two did nothing, so why
not?
Well this time it *does* disconnect me. I hear some clicking sounds
like the phone receiver switch being rapidly toggled, followed by the
echo of some kind of loop back test, and then a short low pitch
humming, and finally I am back to a dial tone.
So I ring back. Obviously I get a different guy. He says that the test
the last guy did has identified a loop back(?) error on the line. I
say "great, report it to BT then" but he refuses, once again saying it
is a problem with the voice line, and I must report it. As I am
arguing this point *again*, the test sounds start up again, and I am
disconnected.
So I now ring BT again, just to see what they will say. While I am in
the queue, the test sounds start again, and I am disconnected. I try
again. This time I get through, explain all what Demon have done
*again* and BT reiterate once again that the whole thing is Demon's
problem. By mutual consent we don't even bother doing the BT line test
this time. With hindsight maybe I should have got it done, if only to
add "misrepresenting the fault" to my list of grievances.
Thoroughly fed up, I now ring Demon customer support in an attempt to
get a MAC code. I am told that no fault report has been logged, and I
should contact technical support to report it. I refuse, stating that
I have already done this several times. I am then told that the
migration department closes two hours before the rest of Demon (it is
now 8pm, I have been at this for 4 hours), and I will have to ring
back in the morning.
Reading back through this post it does seem like I was making some
progress. Most likely the first line test was never actually carried
out because of the LR. But it was such an effort to even get this far,
I don't think I want to deal with Demon any more, even if they rang me
up tomorrow, told me the problem was fixed, and it actually was.
By way of comparison, I once had a similar problem on a Zen ADSL line.
I made exactly one call to their support line, explained the problem,
and a few days later noticed a BT engineer fiddling with the line
outside the premises. Asked him what he was up to and he said "fixing
your broadband." Next day Zen called me, told me it was fixed, and it
actually was.
In fact, now I think about it, I think it was exactly the same
problem: connection loss on incoming calls. The problem as I recall
turned out to be a line multiplexer which was running two phone lines
over a single physical line - apparently the installer had set it up
like that because pulling the cable was a pain, and he thought we
might ask for a second line in the future (was a business premises.)
This was a good few years ago now (i think it was a 512k down, 256k
up) so my memory may be failing me. But maybe I should ask BT if my
line has one of those things on it... I'm sure he called it a
multiplexer...
nev young
> nev: That's identical to my problem. I never got a ticket out of
> anyone though.
> nev/alphanov: What's your speed like when the service is working? Mine
when working speed is ~ 8.5M/1M down/up
in fact I'm very happy with the service, when it's working.
>
> Anyway, here's what happened today:
>
<snip long story>
Today I joined the team of "line drops when ..."
I contacted demon via the tech web chat thingy.
Went through a script and had an answer for all of his questions.
I had done all the local testing stuff. As an ex "network support
specialist" of 30 odd years I have the necessary clue. :-)
He ended with a request for me to get a line test for noise done by BT
but warned I must not mention broadband or BT would just bounce it back
to them. I told him I knew the drill as I had played this game before.
I have kept the transcript of the web chat for evidence^W posterity.
I am waiting for BT to do the test.
TBC
--
Nev
alphanov
for rate adaptive ADSL until I could get it!) so I get around 1M down
and 400k up (any faster and the data would get nosebleeds! :-) )
Seems to me that C&W have installed some duff kit in the exchange and
will not admit it...
Regarding the "excluded routers" (Netgear & Cisco) does anyone know
what chipset they use? I've tried the following and all disconnect -
Draytek Vigor 100, 2Wire BT2700, Draytek Vigor 2800, Thompson TG585v7
(Demon supplied and configured) and Dreatek Vigor 2820Vn.
I'm not letting the clause about signing up for 12 further months
worry me - if I want to leave then I will do so. As far as I'm
concerned Demon have broken the contract by failing to provide a
usable service! I felt it was more important to debunk their
assertion that it was my kit by getting their provided router.
Strangely they have now offered to get "an engineer" to ring me and
discuss the problem! Perhaps it was after I let it slip that I work
for Ofcom! :-) I'll let you know what happens and try and get some
sort of reference number that you can refer to and try and get this
resolved.
The saga continues.....
--
Nev (one of the 'rare' breed)
Paul Terry
<9db2f3e1-a4fd-4d8a...@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
ali1234 <a.j.b...@gmail.com> writes
>The problem as I recall turned out to be a line multiplexer which was
>running two phone lines over a single physical line - apparently the
>installer had set it up like that because pulling the cable was a pain,
>and he thought we might ask for a second line in the future (was a
>business premises.) This was a good few years ago now (i think it was a
>512k down, 256k up) so my memory may be failing me. But maybe I should
>ask BT if my line has one of those things on it... I'm sure he called
>it a multiplexer...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_gain
In the UK, the system is known as DACS. It's probably worth checking to
make sure that the line hasn't been DACSed, but if it is then I don't
think you would be able to use broadband at all (or even a 56K modem for
dial-up).
It used to be possible to check for DACS from the line checker on the BT
Internet page - it would indicate the presence of a line sharing device
if one is present. I don't know if that's still the case.
--
Paul Terry
Peter Grange
<nev....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>Regarding the "excluded routers" (Netgear & Cisco) does anyone know
>what chipset they use? I've tried the following and all disconnect -
>Draytek Vigor 100, 2Wire BT2700, Draytek Vigor 2800, Thompson TG585v7
>(Demon supplied and configured) and Dreatek Vigor 2820Vn.
>
Presumably the "Excluded Routers" applies to whatever hardware C&W are
installing at the exchanges. Does anyone know if the same problem
applies to the BT kit? Does BT have the same equipment?
--
Pete
Andy
<pa...@musonix.demon.co.uk> wrote
[
>In the UK, the system is known as DACS.
I think it was originally invented for using one line for both voice and
fax to the same premises on different numbers. But it would also allow 2
voice lines to the same or adjacent premises.
The DACS box has been reported as being installed "where the line enters
your house", but also "lurking up a pole".
>It's probably worth checking to make sure that the line hasn't been
>DACSed, but if it is then I don't think you would be able to use
>broadband at all (or even a 56K modem for dial-up).
>
If I recall OK, a modem would work, but slowly and badly. I'd expect
broadband not to work at all.
--
Andy Taylor [Editor, Austrian Philatelic Society].
Visit <URL:http://www.austrianphilately.com>
Steve
I'm having this problem too. I suspect many are, but haven't actually
noticed.
I use a Draytek 2820 - I need that for the VPN features, Demon's router
would be no use to me.
"nev young" <newsforpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:h63l2f$1am$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
ali1234
> In message <sJtCULBVGphKF...@musonix.demon.co.uk>, Paul Terry
> <p...@musonix.demon.co.uk> wrote
I think you are right, we had to have the DACS removed as part of the
broadband install. But I remember getting some kind of connection
problem fixed after that. Pity I can't remember what it was...
Charles Ellson
<a.j.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Aug 15, 12:50�pm, Andy <a...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sJtCULBVGphKF...@musonix.demon.co.uk>, Paul Terry
>> <p...@musonix.demon.co.uk> wrote
>> [
>>
>> >In the UK, the system is known as DACS.
>>
>> I think it was originally invented for using one line for both voice and
>> fax to the same premises on different numbers. But it would also allow 2
>> voice lines to the same or adjacent premises.
>>
It was used mainly to get rid of domestic party lines and their
accompanying problems until the capacities of local cables were
increased; most fax machines would then have been on business lines
which were not DACSed unless there was no practical alternative.
Unfortunately there was an accompanying increase in domestic use of
modems at increasing speeds which became more and more incompatible
with being on a DACS circuit; IIRC in common with earlier carrier
systems they also still had an internal battery which tended to die
after two or three years thus making them not maintenance-free.
Clint Sharp
<stev...@spa-networks.biz> writes
>+ 1
>
>I'm having this problem too. I suspect many are, but haven't actually
>noticed.
>
>I use a Draytek 2820 - I need that for the VPN features, Demon's router
>would be no use to me.
Demon and am resigned to the fact that they won't help. I'm busy
migrating customer's lines off Demon now and as soon as that completes,
it's goodbye from me too.
>
>
>
--
Clint Sharp
Will Gortoa
<0dfad323-f5c0-46fb...@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
ali1234 <a.j.b...@gmail.com>
[snippage]
>Given that three routers have the same problem, is a "newer" router
>likely to make any difference? Which ones work/will satisfy the
>helpdesk that there really is a problem?
Well, the only thing I would say on this subject is that I had all the
symptoms you've experienced... I bit the bullet and got me a new free
[Yes, plus 12 month contract! :)] non-wireless modem from Demon. Problem
solved.
--
Will Gortoa
Running: OS-XP Pro/2.9GHZ processor/512Mb memory/40GB hard drive/Demon
HomeOffice 8000 through SpeedTouch ST546v6 wired router/Turnpike 6.05S mail-
news reader.
Wm...
demon.service Will Gortoa <|||TheHipBlueBirdHouse|||@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>In article
><0dfad323-f5c0-46fb...@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>ali1234 <a.j.b...@gmail.com>
>
> [snippage]
>
>>Given that three routers have the same problem, is a "newer" router
>>likely to make any difference? Which ones work/will satisfy the
>>helpdesk that there really is a problem?
>
>Well, the only thing I would say on this subject is that I had all the
>symptoms you've experienced... I bit the bullet and got me a new free
>[Yes, plus 12 month contract! :)] non-wireless modem from Demon.
>Problem solved.
Wild thought: maybe C&W / Demon actually want some people to go because
the exchange is unprofitable?
Things are fine here. What do you think I should watch next on the
BBC's iPlayer?
--
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days
news
It could be because it is a fault in the street Cab.
I had an issue with the line going if the phone went and eventually it
was tracked back to a bad connection in the cabinet 50 yards down the
street.
BT did line tests came round and checked what I had proved - that my
internal wires were fine - had tried 3 ADSL routers and 4 splitters.
They kept passing it back to Demon
They had the nerve to charge me for an engineer visit because of advice
that I needed to close the original call and open another.
.
They refunded it when I complained and they checked their own logs but
only as far as crediting my account - At this point I was fed up with
telling them that they had proved it was their fault.
I became wary whenever BT played with the cab after that.
After one such adjustment I found that you could have an excellent ADSL
connection with NO phone connection at all - seems ADSL only needs the
one wire but the phone needed 2 if that makes sense.
There was no demon problem and the other bit was that line tests tend
not to involve the phone ringing.
Max
In article <8I+s8ENr...@clintsmc.demon.co.uk>, Clint Sharp
<cl...@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> writes
--
Max Richens
Use the reply no and not the from address
David Rance
>>+ 1
>>
>>I'm having this problem too. I suspect many are, but haven't actually
>>noticed.
>>
>>I use a Draytek 2820 - I need that for the VPN features, Demon's router
>>would be no use to me.
>Can I just add a 'Me Too' here, I've been through the same crap with
>Demon and am resigned to the fact that they won't help. I'm busy
>migrating customer's lines off Demon now and as soon as that completes,
>it's goodbye from me too.
I was just smugly thinking that, at least, *I* don't have this problem.
Then I thought, hang on a minute, I don't get calls on my ADSL line so
how do I know?
So I've just done a test. I called the number that my ADSL2+ line is on
and what happened?
The ADSL2+ signal lost sync.
So here's another "me too". :-(
I'm thinking of getting ADSL with IDNet on my voice line. Is this sort
of thing happening with other ISPs?
David
--
David Rance
writing on holiday from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France
Wm...
demon.service news <fri...@richens.demon.co.uk>
>They had the nerve to charge me for an engineer visit because of advice
>that I needed to close the original call and open another.
No, I think if you check carefully it was for top posting.
Paul Terry
<david...@SPAMOFFrance.org.uk> writes
>So I've just done a test. I called the number that my ADSL2+ line is on
>and what happened?
>
>The ADSL2+ signal lost sync.
>
>So here's another "me too". :-(
>
>I'm thinking of getting ADSL with IDNet on my voice line. Is this sort
>of thing happening with other ISPs?
I don't see how it could be an ISP issue. It sounds more like inadequate
ADSL filters, allowing the ring tone to interfere with the ADSL signal.
--
Paul Terry
ali1234
> In message <vnA36vEEBGiKF...@David-laptop.rance.org.uk>, David Rance
> <david.ra...@SPAMOFFrance.org.uk> writes
>
> >So I've just done a test. I called the number that my ADSL2+ line is on
> >and what happened?
>
> >The ADSL2+ signal lost sync.
>
> >So here's another "me too". :-(
>
> >I'm thinking of getting ADSL with IDNet on my voice line. Is this sort
> >of thing happening with other ISPs?
>
> I don't see how it could be an ISP issue. It sounds more like inadequate
> ADSL filters, allowing the ring tone to interfere with the ADSL signal.
> --
> Paul Terry
I'm hearing from a lot of friends on LLU ISPs that they are getting
this. And it seems to have started for everyone when Demon switched
people to the LLU. The problem even happens when the modem drops back
down to G.dmt. Since none of my equipment has changed, this must be an
ISP issue. I suspect they have their DSLAMs configured for maximum
line speed rather than maximum stability, in order to make it look
like they give a better speed than BT (since that's all 99% of people
will bother to look at.)
As such, I'll be migrating this line to a BT backed ISP asap.
Paul Terry
<095f34ca-90d1-4ff3...@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
ali1234 <a.j.b...@gmail.com> writes
>I'm hearing from a lot of friends on LLU ISPs that they are getting
>this. And it seems to have started for everyone when Demon switched
>people to the LLU. The problem even happens when the modem drops back
>down to G.dmt. Since none of my equipment has changed, this must be an
>ISP issue.
Surely that would mean that all of Demon's customers would be affected?
I see no loss of sync here and get a rock-solid 16Mb download speed.
--
Paul Terry
Andy
<pa...@musonix.demon.co.uk> wrote
Not necessarily. It would only affect those who have been "upgraded",
and in addition may only affect those with certain modems or routers,
and/or those whose connection passes through some box (or several
installations of the same box) which has a problem.
Roy Brown
<tcn...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> writing at 12:50:18 in his/her
local time opines:-
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052911/
--
Roy Brown 'Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be
Kelmscott Ltd useful, or believe to be beautiful' William Morris
Wm...
<Roy_now_fre...@acanthus.demon.co.uk>
>>Things are fine here. What do you think I should watch next on the
>>BBC's iPlayer?
>>
>
>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052911/
You made me laugh, Roy.
ali1234
> ali1234 <a.j.bux...@gmail.com> writes
>
> >I'm hearing from a lot of friends on LLU ISPs that they are getting
> >this. And it seems to have started for everyone when Demon switched
> >people to the LLU. The problem even happens when the modem drops back
> >down to G.dmt. Since none of my equipment has changed, this must be an
> >ISP issue.
>
> Surely that would mean that all of Demon's customers would be affected?
> I see no loss of sync here and get a rock-solid 16Mb download speed.
> --
> Paul Terry
It would only affect those customers on marginal lines.
I currently have 21dB attenuation and 1dB margin (NOT a typo) yet my
downstream rate is 10325 kbit. That's clearly more than the line can
handle, and probably the cause of my problems.
Anyway, on Monday I decided to have one more try with the helpdesk,
from a mobile this time. I used the geographic number, otherwise the
call would have cost me £20. 50 minutes later I finally got them to
open a fault on the line, with "BT Cable & Wireless" apparently. I
didn't get the "£170" speech this time, but there is the "50 working
hours" delay. So I'll let you know what happens next week.
Andy
<7a8cf53e-8059-4874...@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
ali1234 <a.j.b...@gmail.com> wrote
[]
> there is the "50 working
>hours" delay.
And an imminent Bank Holiday :)
RELL6G
Me too over four weeks and counting - my last word to the helldesk was
a suggestion of a quick fix namely get rid of BT and Demon and have
cable installed then write to Ofcom....................
nev young
> On 14 Aug, 13:16, nev young <newsforpasiphae1...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> alphanov wrote:
>>
>>> Small consolation but you are not on your own with this!
>> I think I'm just lucky that I get so few phone calls.
>>
>> So if I can add up right that's 4 of us here with this problem.
>>
> a suggestion of a quick fix namely get rid of BT and Demon and have
> cable installed then write to Ofcom....................
In an attempt at fair play (bwahahahah) and that I knew the household
phone wiring had been done by a chipmunk on drugs; I took this problem
as an opportunity to rip out all of my old phone wires and replace with
nice new ones.
The result is; not a lot.
The router still drops sync when the phone rings but now it needs to
ring many more times (at least 6) before sync is lost.
So it's better but still not right.
Still waiting for BT to do a line test.
I see there is an online line test available from BT but I can not make
it work. Does anyone know if it is a MS windows only thing?
Meanwhile, I am asking round in other groups and forums to see if this
problem also occurs on non-demon ADSL2+ lines. It could, after all, just
be a problem with the technology. Most people would not notice a problem
as they don't use the broadband 24/7 like some of us do.
--
Nev
Big Les Wade
>
>Meanwhile, I am asking round in other groups and forums to see if this
>problem also occurs on non-demon ADSL2+ lines. It could, after all,
>just be a problem with the technology. Most people would not notice a
>problem as they don't use the broadband 24/7 like some of us do.
Just tried it with my new Be broadband connection ... incoming calls
have no effect.
--
Les
Stephen Wolstenholme
wrote:
One of my colleagues using Be has problems with incoming calls and
outgoing calls when the phone is hung up. I occasionally have problems
with outgoing calls.
Steve
--
Neural Planner Software Ltd www.NPSL1.com
RELL6G
Well before this downgrade to ADSL2 "+" I could count pretty much on
one hand the amount of line drops and the phone ringing was never a
problem at all.
I dispatched a suitable missive (to include my intention to close my
account if this isn't sorted) to the helldesk yesterday and back comes
a pretty standard reply requesting I check everything which we have
been through time and time again when I've called them and even
clearly stated in said missive - it really is becoming utterly
ridiculous!
--
Mark B
Email address is valid
ali1234
Demon have had 10 working days now, and I haven't heard anything from
anyone about my problem, which persists.
I have been running status monitoring on the Netgear and I have a
beautiful graph showing the SnR completely tank between 9pm and 4am
every day.
Yesterday I received a Thompson speedtouch ST510 v6 from my brother,
who got it from Demon, and it is *much* worse than the Netgear. It has
all the same problems, but instead of resyncing automatically like the
Netgear did, it just drops around 50% of packets until I manually
reboot it. I also get a slower connection with it, the interface is
horrible, and it does not support DMZ properly.
It came with yet another microfilter, so I have now tried four
different routers and four filters to no avail.
Robert Sneddon
<688edd19-6aa8-4108...@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
ali1234 <a.j.b...@gmail.com> writes
>Latest update:
>I have been running status monitoring on the Netgear and I have a
>beautiful graph showing the SnR completely tank between 9pm and 4am
>every day.
That sounds like street-lights. They're well-known as a source of
high-frequency noise on cables running too close to each other in
underground tunnels. The effects only show up at night when the lights
are switched on.
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
Dave Baxter
fr...@nospam.demon.co.uk says...
> In message
> <688edd19-6aa8-4108...@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> ali1234 <a.j.b...@gmail.com> writes
> >Latest update:
>
> >I have been running status monitoring on the Netgear and I have a
> >beautiful graph showing the SnR completely tank between 9pm and 4am
> >every day.
>
> That sounds like street-lights. They're well-known as a source of
> high-frequency noise on cables running too close to each other in
> underground tunnels. The effects only show up at night when the lights
> are switched on.
>
Street lighting power cables do not run in the same ducts as telecom
cables. I know that for sure, having dug enough of them up in a past
life....
More like MW to Low HF signals (air borne) getting much stronger at
night, part of the "normal" radio propagation cycle over the day. ADSL2
+ is more susceptable to that, than the older slower system, as it uses
more spectrum, and a more complicated modulation scheme, but they all
suffer to a greater/lesser extent.
You'll see the SN curve change with the seasons too. (I've been using
RouterStats, with my DG834Gv2)
Regards.
Dave B.
alphanov
experienced by myself and many others. Draytek have some information
that may, or may not, partially explain the rather starnge performance
of the LLU ADSL2+ Demon provision. The full text is here (http://
www.draytek.co.uk/support/kb_vigor_inp.html) and suggests that the
Broadcom chipset is using a non mandatory extension to the ITU-T G.
992.5 standard.
Demon "support" finally contacted me by 'phone and helpfully suggested
that I leave my modem setting at ADSL2 as this appeared to be the
"most stable" for my line conditions. Gee... I wish I'd thought of
that! (It had been at ADSL2 for weeks following my stability tests!)
--
Nev
Big Les Wade
>I've been doing some basic research on this type of problem as
>experienced by myself and many others. Draytek have some information
>that may, or may not, partially explain the rather starnge performance
>of the LLU ADSL2+ Demon provision. The full text is here (http://
>www.draytek.co.uk/support/kb_vigor_inp.html) and suggests that the
>Broadcom chipset is using a non mandatory extension to the ITU-T G.
>992.5 standard.
I don't understand. How might that explain the behaviour of Demon's
ADSL2+ service?
Do you mean that the reason some people are having problems with Demon
ADSL2+ is because they are using Broadcom-based modems with this
extension, which Demon cannot support?
--
Les
Conspiracy theory: A suspicion that officials sometimes mislead the public in
order to protect their own interests.
Dave
How is this going? Still OK with Be? So you used to have line drop on
ring with Demon, but now you don't have it with Be?
I'm thinking of the same switch.
Dave
>
> Seems to me that C&W have installed some duff kit in the exchange and
> will not admit it...
>
> --
>
> Nev (one of the 'rare' breed)
Yes, I think this could well be the case. I assume that everyone posting
on this thread that had the problem still has it.
Here's an update on the situation:
I've had this for four months now, and have been bandied around Demon,
C&W and BT. The first C&W engineer I spoke to was pretty good. He ended
up progressively capping my line speed until the line drop stopped.
The cap was from 15Mb -> 11Mb down, and 1Mb -> 255K upstream. He said
the problem was mainly with the upstream (something to do with those
channels being near the end of the spectrum) He agreed with me that this
cap was too much, and that I should get a BT engineer.
After much typical helpdesk contacting me to tell me the problem was
resolved and to contact them if I have further problems (this sort of
thing went on right throughout the four months), I finally got them to
agree to send the BT engineer. He came, the cap was removed, tested
everything OK, went to the exchange, plugged directly into the C&W
equipment and the problem happened there too.
So, it was passed back to C&W, who after a while, said they'd replaced
their equipment with new, and that it should be OK. It wasn't, of
course, and of course everyone closed the case before I retested.
So, I complained again, and they capped again, and told me it was fixed.
I explained to them, yet again, that this was an unreasonable solution,
they went back to C&W who said they wouldn't re-open, it was fixed.
I asked for it top be escalated, and after 6 days! Demon adsl support
called me and had finally looked intelligently at the case. He agreed
with me that it was a bad solution. I said that it can't be right that
C&W will just fix any problems by capping your speed until it goes away.
He raised the issue in a managers meeting with C&W, and they have agreed
to re-open and investigate.
Just so we're clear why I don't believe the capping is reasonable, I
used to get about 6Mb down and 1Mb up, before ADSL2+. Rock solid,
probably one drop a year. The sort of adsl you forget you have.
My cap now gives me a noise margin of 16 down, and 27 up. These are very
high figures, and are part proof that the line has been capped much
further than it should be able to handle. Speedtest gives me 6Mb down,
and 0.1Mb up! That 0.1 is really slow, and is very noticeable.
Maybe it's the case that ADSL2+, or C&W equipment, doesn't care too much
about upstream to squeeze every last bit out of downstream. It certainly
feels like that.
I'll post here if I get more info. I am very tempted to switch to
something like Be, since they have different equipment (and they are
also offering enhanced upstream up to 2.5Mb) Shame since I've been with
Demon for 16 years.
Denis McMahon
> Maybe it's the case that ADSL2+, or C&W equipment, doesn't care too much
> about upstream to squeeze every last bit out of downstream. It certainly
> feels like that.
I found that the adsl2+ "upgrade" gave me more upstream and less
downstream. The drop in downstream was less than the increase in upstream.
Not that it really bothers me apart from being mildly irritated that an
"upgrade" was actually a nerfing.
Rgds
Denis McMahon
Big Les Wade
>Big Les Wade wrote:
>> nev young <newsforpa...@yahoo.co.uk> posted
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, I am asking round in other groups and forums to see if this
>>> problem also occurs on non-demon ADSL2+ lines. It could, after all,
>>> just be a problem with the technology. Most people would not notice a
>>> problem as they don't use the broadband 24/7 like some of us do.
>>
>> Just tried it with my new Be broadband connection ... incoming calls
>> have no effect.
>
>How is this going? Still OK with Be?
Yes it seems fine.
>So you used to have line drop on
>ring with Demon, but now you don't have it with Be?
No - I never had that problem with Demon either - not while it was
working properly with "normal" ADSL.
Then they switched me to ADSL2+ and everything went pear-shaped. That's
why I moved to Be.
--
Les
Dave
Thanks. Yes, that's what I meant - you used to get line drop on ring
with ADSL2+ from Demon?
Do you notice any contention issues with Be? I have heard their network
is a bit busier than C&W (who provide LLU for Demon)
Big Les Wade
>Thanks. Yes, that's what I meant - you used to get line drop on ring
>with ADSL2+ from Demon?
ADSL2+ never worked at all.
>Do you notice any contention issues with Be? I have heard their network
>is a bit busier than C&W (who provide LLU for Demon)
I don't really know. It doesn't seem too bad, but I don't do high
bandwidth stuff like streaming.
--
Les