Re: Demon departure

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 09:18:39, SilverE <w...@localhost.invalid> wrote:
[]
>I'm amazed that Vodafone can get away with this. Has anyone complained
>to Ofcom that this is a clear breach of Treating Customers Fairly

I doubt you'd get anywhere (even if OfCom was worth anything in this
respect, which I'm pretty sure it isn't). I think the writing's been on
the wall long enough for the old DCU subdomains: anyone still using one
has already had to actively take enough steps that I doubt they could
claim (successfully, anyway) that they didn't know they were living on
borrowed time.

(Don't get me wrong - I still think it's despicable; just that there are
so many worse, and wider [affecting more people], things that telecomm.s
companies get away with, that I can't see something as technical as this
getting anywhere if anyone _did_ complain. Not that I'm saying no-one
should try if they feel so inclined!)

>principles? If I was still with Demon I'd be having hundreds of
>addresses to change. I do have most of the important commercial ones
>organised in LastPass which would help.

The person I'm helping has about 4000, she says. (She runs some sort of
local organisation.)
>
>It's thanks to a Demon admin cock-up many years ago that I decided to
>get my own domain, and decamped to the original Gradwell service -
>which ironically has ended up in Namesco. Gradwell Mk2 is still about,
>maybe they would take it all on for old times' sake.

I went to the biscuit company initially (that's when, if not earlier, I
_should_ have jumped ship), then - was it about a year later? - when
they made things difficult - I got my own (with TSOhost - after
recommendation on one of these two 'groups I think).
>
>Good luck all!
>
Be interesting to know how many DCUs still _do_ exist. Anyone have any
idea?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Sneering doesn't become either the human face or the human soul.
Professor Henry Higgins (in Pygmalion, by George Bernard Shaw)

[Martin Brown]

On 11/04/2020 10:28, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>
>> Good luck all!
>>
> Be interesting to know how many DCUs still _do_ exist. Anyone have any
> idea?

Impossible to tell for sure but all those that I can recall from wayback
that I know have long since ceased to exist resolve with a live record.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

You remind me: many years ago, someone - I think it _was_ a DCUer -
summarised all the then-extant DCU sites [actually, come to think about
it, I don't know how or even if s/he _knew_ them all, so maybe didn't].
They dismissed mine (then), though totally accurately, with the single
word "links".
Anyone else remember that? (Is it still up? If not, might be on WayBack
...)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"On the whole, I'm in favour of the state getting out of people's lives, but I
would not have a problem with voting being made compulsory. But if you did
that, you'd have to have a box for 'None of the above'."
Jeremy Paxman, quoted in RT 2015/5/2-8

[Cliff Frisby]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 09:18:39, SilverE <w...@localhost.invalid> wrote:
> []
>>I'm amazed that Vodafone can get away with this. Has anyone complained
>>to Ofcom that this is a clear breach of Treating Customers Fairly
>
> I doubt you'd get anywhere (even if OfCom was worth anything in this
> respect, which I'm pretty sure it isn't). I think the writing's been on
> the wall long enough for the old DCU subdomains: anyone still using one
> has already had to actively take enough steps that I doubt they could
> claim (successfully, anyway) that they didn't know they were living on
> borrowed time.
>

OFCOM is challenging overcharging for maintaining access to ISP-based email
addresses after a customer switches. I know that's not quite the same thing
as this situation, but in some ways it is seems worse because Vodafone
appears to want to squat on the domain for purposes unknown, while denying
anyone else the option of providing legacy access to the subdomains
previously offered to its customers for email purposes.

If Vodafone's defence was 'customers have had plenty of time to migrate
their contacts to using other email addresses', then that defence would
presumably be available to BT et al in order to at least time-limit any
action that OFCOM might force them into taking.

Google 'BT email OFCOM' for more.

A relevant edition of BBC R4 Money Box is here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000fn90

<snipped>

[Andy Frith]

On numbers, during a recent chat with NamesCo support mention was made
of some 6000 customers affected, so probably no tall order for them to
sort in the short Vodafone imposed time scales, especially in the
current exceptional circumstances with them all working from home on
reduced hours and with the Easter Break also.

I got the "stage 3" email on the 14th April suggesting our migration was
for the "early hours" of 15th April but from my various devices it
seemed more like 0800-0900, however other than the pain of all the
notifications and resetting userids (20+ year is a lot!) it seems to
have been pretty smooth, and I think in this case NamesCo have been more
"on the ball" than 4 years ago. But a bit frustrated as I already had a
<hostname>.co.uk domain linked to my <hostname>.demon.co.uk "account"
and it took some 3 weeks for them to switch me. Charitably though its
likely they'd want to get alternate domains set up for others and then
do some sort of "batch" process.

In fact I held back on the notifications as many were confused by us
advising our new email was xxx@<hostname>.co.uk but until the
"migration" they still saw our "From:" address as still
xxx@<hostname>.demon.co.uk.

One thing I did find - after I received the "stage 3" email I logged
into my "admin" and found they hadn't created all the aliases on my old
"userid" for the new alternative <hostname>.co.uk domain, so quickly
fixed it.

On the "Admin" id, for me at least, it is still
admin@<hostname>demononcasca.onmicrosoft.com.

Namesco have confirmed that it is OK to change this in the Admin Portal
to admin@<hostname>.co.uk (via the dropdown which selects from the
domains linked to your O365 account).

However, for me at least, it seems we are "lumbered" with an
"overarching domain" of, in my case,
<hostname>demononcasca.onmicrosoft.com.

I'm pursing with NamesCo to see if the "overarching" Domain can be
changed to "expunge" being reminded of Demon to e.g.
<hostname>.onmicrosoft.com, which is what I have seen with other
"vanilla" O365 accounts.

Regards
Andy Frith



.



------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@255soft.uk>
Subject: Demon departure
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 10:28:42
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[jg....@gmail.com]

I'm now embarking on this migration (after at least 24 years, and 400 aliases at <hostname>.demon.co.uk)

I'm interested in knowing how fast namesco moved once you told them to get on with it? I gave them my new domain choice about 3 days ago and I've heard nothing since.

Was there any cutover period when you still received mail to your demon subdomain, or did it end fairly sharply?

cheers

Jim

[John]

In message <d+hhg8Cw...@nospam.demon.co.uk>, Andy Frith
<an...@frithfam.co.uk> writes

>
>On the "Admin" id, for me at least, it is still
>admin@<hostname>demononcasca.onmicrosoft.com.
>
>Namesco have confirmed that it is OK to change this in the Admin Portal
>to admin@<hostname>.co.uk (via the dropdown which selects from the
>domains linked to your O365 account).
>
>However, for me at least, it seems we are "lumbered" with an
>"overarching domain" of, in my case,
><hostname>demononcasca.onmicrosoft.com.
>
>I'm pursing with NamesCo to see if the "overarching" Domain can be
>changed to "expunge" being reminded of Demon to e.g.
><hostname>.onmicrosoft.com, which is what I have seen with other
>"vanilla" O365 accounts.
>
>Regards
>Andy Frith
>

I received the Stage 3 email yesterday and the changes had happened by
this morning.

My admin *is* of the form <hostname>casca.onmicrosoft.com - not sure why
yours is different.

Two things that Namesco didn't do

1) Change the logon to their own website - it was still the old d.c.u
one.

2) The domain registration also had the old d.c.u email on it. I suppose
when they registered it they didn't have the new email, but they did not
go back in and edit it.

Both easily resolved and now seem to be fully up a running again.


--
John

[John]

In message <5278cd70-4bc6-4830...@googlegroups.com>,
jg....@gmail.com writes

It's a 3 stage process. You have completed Stage 1, which is requesting
your new domain (or subdomain) and transferring your email to it. In my
case the new domain was there within hours, but dormant. It could be
seen by looking at the control panel at Namesco.

A few days later I got the Stage 2 email. This tells you to do nothing
with your settings, but your new email has been set up and can be
accessed from your old d.c.u mailbox. You can now start telling people
your new address and updating the hundreds of websites that use your old
email address!. At this stage you can receive email from both your old
and new addresses but only send from your old address. It advises you
that the Stage 3 email will arrive "in about 10 days". In my case it
was actually seven days, which doesn't give you long if you still need
to send from your old email address.

The Stage 3 email arrives about a week after the Stage 2 email. In my
case it arrived about lunchtime on Thursday and told me that the switch
over would occur in the early hours of Friday morning. On the Friday
the email access is switched to the new domain name and you have to
reconfigure your SMTP, POP, IMAP settings (and Sender, From, Reply to
and routing rules etc). If you access your mail on office.com it won't
recognize your old log in and you have to use the new one. Your sent
emails now originate from your new address. All your old emails will be
in the new location, so you don't lose any history. Emails to your old
address will continue to arrive in your new inbox until Vodafone finally
pull the plug. This is somewhere between May 29th and June 14th
depending who you talk to.

Hope this helps

--
John

[strathspey...@gmail.com]

Must admit I think Namesco have handled the whole thing pretty well. Vodaphone really should have given a much longer notice period.

[jg....@gmail.com]

On Friday, 17 April 2020 14:41:37 UTC+1, John wrote:
> In message <5278cd70-4bc6-4830...@googlegroups.com>,
> I wrote

> >I'm now embarking on this migration (after at least 24 years, and 400
> >aliases at <hostname>.demon.co.uk)

> It's a 3 stage process. You have completed Stage 1, which is requesting
> your new domain (or subdomain) and transferring your email to it. In my
> case the new domain was there within hours, but dormant. It could be
> seen by looking at the control panel at Namesco.

> ..............

> Hope this helps
>
> --
> John

thanks John
I'm between stage 1 and 2 in that case. I can see the new dormant domain in control panel and the new registration at nominet. I think I'll spend some time prioritising just which of those e-mails addresses I really need whilst waiting for the stage 2 e-mail.
thanks again
cheers
Jim

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 08:02:25, strathspey...@gmail.com wrote:
>Must admit I think Namesco have handled the whole thing pretty well.

Yes, looking at it as an outsider now, they look far more user-friendly
than when they finally drove me away.

>Vodaphone really should have given a much longer notice period.
>

Especially under current circumstances. However, attempting to shame
them on Twitter has fallen on deaf (or at least unresponsive) ears.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.