Attn: Demon
Ben Smith
seriously poor service that I seemed to be getting.
Since then, the quality of the service issued has not noticeably
improved. Too often connections 'die'. Too often mail takes 5 hours or
more to arrive. Too often I connect to the Internet only to see nothing
in, nothing out.
To ask for perfection all the time is unrealistic. Having waited 3
months though I fail to see any improvements and feel that my money
could be better spent elsewhere.
I have been with Demon for some years. I have recommended Demon to at
least another 10 individuals / companies who as a result are your
customers. Losing customers like me for poor service is not a good idea.
--
Ben Smith
Denis Mcmahon
>Since then, the quality of the service issued has not noticeably
>improved. Too often connections 'die'.
Please state the dates and times of the last 5 occurrences of this
that you reported to the helpdesk.
>Too often mail takes 5 hours or
>more to arrive.
I for one would be interested in the headers of those delayed emails,
just the "received: ... by punt ..." and "received: ... by mailstore
..." lines will do, and one set from each occasion on which such
delays were seen.
>Too often I connect to the Internet only to see nothing
>in, nothing out.
Please state the dates and times of the last 5 occurrences of this
that you reported to the helpdesk.
If you REALLY think that demon is significantly worse than other ISP
of your choice, then I suggest you take your business to other ISP of
your choice, however if you're just having a moan because of a couple
of perceived issues, why not try and do something helpful about it,
like deliver information to demon that allows them to try and locate
the causes of such issues so they can resolve them.
Rgds
Denis
--
Denis McMahon / +44 7802 468949 / de...@pickaxe.demon.co.uk
Top-posters, posters of adverts & binaries are scum. Killfile!
Block [a.b.*.*] of any UC/BE relay. Posts > 100 lines ignored.
sulfnbk is not a virus, see the symantec virus encyclopaedia!
Ben Smith
<den...@pickaxe.demon.co.uk> writes
>Ben Smith <b...@nospamplease.bjsmith.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Since then, the quality of the service issued has not noticeably
>>improved. Too often connections 'die'.
>
>Please state the dates and times of the last 5 occurrences of this
>that you reported to the helpdesk.
>
>>Too often mail takes 5 hours or
>>more to arrive.
>
>I for one would be interested in the headers of those delayed emails,
>just the "received: ... by punt ..." and "received: ... by mailstore
>..." lines will do, and one set from each occasion on which such
>delays were seen.
>
>>Too often I connect to the Internet only to see nothing
>>in, nothing out.
>
>Please state the dates and times of the last 5 occurrences of this
>that you reported to the helpdesk.
>
>If you REALLY think that demon is significantly worse than other ISP
>of your choice, then I suggest you take your business to other ISP of
>your choice, however if you're just having a moan because of a couple
>of perceived issues, why not try and do something helpful about it,
>like deliver information to demon that allows them to try and locate
>the causes of such issues so they can resolve them.
>
>Rgds
>Denis
This group is full of customers like me contributing headers,
traceroutes, etc etc. If we've stopped submitting evidence it could be
that we believe this to be an increasingly futile exercise.
Three months on and the same problems with news, e-mail and routing
issues are still present. Routing in particular is a complete pain,
despite significant numbers of complaints for some time. This would
appear to suggest that regardless of how much information we provide,
the problems are not going away. If Demon can't fix the problems inside
of 3 months, then this suggests that either:
- they don't know how to;
- they can't afford to;
- it is not in their interest to do so as they wish to re-position
themselves as a business-orientated ISP.
There is absolutely no point in continually calling the helpdesk to
register problems. I have better things to do with my life. Calling a
helpdesk is only a worthwhile activity if it leads to resolution of the
problems - ie you not having to call the helpdesk continually to report
the same problems. I called Demon months ago when the initial problems
happened; I submitted traceroutes to this group. My evaluation of the
issue does not lead me to suspect that calling the helpdesk is going to
do anything in either making me feel better or delivering a good
service.
And please don't say "perceived issue". It's not a perception, it's a
fact. I don't believe that I'm alone in my sentiments and my assessment
of the situation. I use the Internet for around 8 hours a day, every
day, and have done for several years now - credit me with the
intelligence to notice a marked reduction in the quality of service
received for the entirety of this year, please, rather than making the
assumption that I'm some whinger who likes a good moan.
--
Ben Smith
Richard Clayton
please.bjsmith.demon.co.uk> writes
>There is absolutely no point in continually calling the helpdesk to
>register problems.
especially since there's another way of doing it without a helpdesk
human in the submission loop :(
--
richard Richard Clayton
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Dirk Diggler
"Richard Clayton" <ric...@highwayman.com> wrote in message
news:25su4YCSs$j8E...@highwayman.com...
Stan Dorrington
<b...@nospamplease.bjsmith.demon.co.uk> writes
[snip]
>Three months on and the same problems with news, e-mail and routing
>issues are still present. Routing in particular is a complete pain,
>despite significant numbers of complaints for some time. This would
>appear to suggest that regardless of how much information we provide,
>the problems are not going away. If Demon can't fix the problems inside
>of 3 months, then this suggests that either:
>
>- they don't know how to;
>- they can't afford to;
>- it is not in their interest to do so as they wish to re-position
>themselves as a business-orientated ISP.
>
[snip]
We've just closed our Demon account. It took two emails and a 'phone
call which elicited three different, overlapping responses plus a "Demon
Internet Cancellation Form" which arrived by fax. There were several
errors in the form (my name, 'phone number and part of the address, etc)
and several ambiguities and unintelligible tick-boxes. Interestingly,
the letterhead showed 'phone and fax numbers for the "Cancellations
Dept". So now we know where they are putting their resources...
Bye.
--
Stan Dorrington
Greg Middleton
<b...@nospamplease.bjsmith.demon.co.uk> wrote:
The possible explanations for the ongoing crap situation:
>- they don't know how to;
One thing that's clear from postings here is that Demon technical
staff aren't a bunch of halfwits, I'm fairly convinced they COULD fix
things if they were allowed to. Admitedly some seem to have rather out
dated ideas about what services should be provided but that's not
their decision anyway, the management should be steering though
clearly there's nobody at the wheel at the moment 8-(.
>- it is not in their interest to do so as they wish to re-position
>themselves as a business-orientated ISP.
Often suggested but not supported by their continued offering of
competitively priced home accounts and recent announcements about home
ADSL.
>- they can't afford to;
Probably a very large factor, small divisions of large corporations
are typically starved of cash where they need it most.
>There is absolutely no point in continually calling the helpdesk to
>register problems. I have better things to do with my life.
Very true, why do some people here, including some Demon staff, think
it's our job to diagnose their problems ?, I can't think of any other
service that expects this. If the phone is dead the most you do is
tell them "the phone is dead", you don't try to diagose any further
because that's their job. Similarly if you lose your electricity
supply, gas or water. But if the problem is in a major part of the
phone, gas, electric or water systems the company has diagnostics to
detect it themselves. I know because I'm involved in such automated
monitoring. Yet Demon seem to have nothing !.
I would sum up Demon's problems as crap management with no strategy or
foreward planning and not investing where it's needed.
Greg
Mike Brogan
to 70% packet loss on Demon's Router's, I eventually got through to their
Helpdesk.
D - "What router problems?"
Me - "The ones that I'm seeing right now on tele-core-1- ...."
D - "We're not aware of anything"
Me - "What about all the postings about packet loss and dropped connections
in the newsgroups?"
D - "What newsgroups?"
Doh!
Whoever it was said it in this thread - they're not stupid. Anyone can see
what their problems are. They choose to ignore them -- for
whatever reason.
What ships? I see no ships!
Mike Brogan
BTW I signed up to Demon 2 months ago after losing my previous ISP, Cloud(we
all know what happened to them)Nine. I never had these kind of problems with
C9. When they did eventually go off the air, the thing that really pi55ed
their customers off was not that they had problems but that they didn't
come clean and tell them the truth (didn't tell them anything actually).
Demon take note.
"Richard Clayton" <ric...@highwayman.com> wrote in message
news:25su4YCSs$j8E...@highwayman.com...
Sean McConkey
news:sblv8usq3l518olvq...@4ax.com...
> Ben Smith <b...@nospamplease.bjsmith.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> If you REALLY think that demon is significantly worse than other ISP
> of your choice, then I suggest you take your business to other ISP of
> your choice, however if you're just having a moan because of a couple
> of perceived issues, why not try and do something helpful about it,
> like deliver information to demon that allows them to try and locate
> the causes of such issues so they can resolve them.
>
where your head is most of the time!
He is not alone in his concerns over the degradation of Demons service, many
included yourself, have moaned about it. How do you know he hasn't furnished
Demon with the necessary information? Sometimes its almost impossible to to
deliver this info. as you never get an answer on their Helpdesk number,
(well call me a liar but once in 6 years isn't great CS if you ask me!)
As for mailing the helpdesk, you get a nice little auto-responder message,
rarely is this followed up.
The real point the poster is making is that if Demon do not pull their socks
up people like him & myself will do exactly what you suggest, go to another
ISP. No one can afford to haemorhage customers, and the number of posts I
have seen in here recently about people leaving Demon suggest exactly that.
Sean
Ridwan Hughes
b...@nospamplease.bjsmith.demon.co.uk says...
> I only joined this newsgroup 3 months ago, due to my concerns at the
> seriously poor service that I seemed to be getting.
Routing is buggered again, had to dial into another ISP to collect news,
again.
FFS Demon, sort it out!
--
Rid
Michael J Davis
>>of perceived issues, why not try and do something helpful about it,
>>like deliver information to demon that allows them to try and locate
>>the causes of such issues so they can resolve them.
>
>traceroutes, etc etc. If we've stopped submitting evidence it could be
>that we believe this to be an increasingly futile exercise.
And we never get any feedback except an auto acknowledgement, so assume
that nothing is being done.
>Three months on and the same problems with news, e-mail and routing
>issues are still present. Routing in particular is a complete pain,
>despite significant numbers of complaints for some time. This would
>appear to suggest that regardless of how much information we provide,
>the problems are not going away. If Demon can't fix the problems inside
>of 3 months, then this suggests that either:
>
>- they don't know how to;
>- they can't afford to;
>- it is not in their interest to do so as they wish to re-position
>themselves as a business-orientated ISP.
>
>There is absolutely no point in continually calling the helpdesk to
>register problems. I have better things to do with my life. Calling a
>helpdesk is only a worthwhile activity if it leads to resolution of the
>problems - ie you not having to call the helpdesk continually to report
>the same problems.
Agreed.
>And please don't say "perceived issue". It's not a perception, it's a
>fact.
I also regret that the word "issue" is being used as an euphemism for
the word "problem" - "issue" means "outcome". It the lack of *outcome*
that we complain about.
>I don't believe that I'm alone in my sentiments and my assessment of
>the situation. I use the Internet for around 8 hours a day, every day,
>and have done for several years now - credit me with the intelligence
>to notice a marked reduction in the quality of service received for the
>entirety of this year, please, rather than making the assumption that
>I'm some whinger who likes a good moan.
Ditto - I'm a light user, (12-20 hrs per month) probably the sort Demon
don't want, but have been for eight years and work on the basis that the
demon you know.... but changes are not for the better, regretfully.
Mike
--
Michael J Davis
Personal email replies may be made to mi...@trustsof.demon.co.uk
<><
For this is what the Lord has said to me,
"Go and post a Watchman and let
him report what he sees." Isa 21:6
<><
Paul C. Dickie
<CUTs...@hotmail.com> writes
>> of your choice, then I suggest you take your business to other ISP of
>> your choice, however if you're just having a moan because of a couple
>> of perceived issues, why not try and do something helpful about it,
>> like deliver information to demon that allows them to try and locate
>> the causes of such issues so they can resolve them.
>>
>Dennis you as always miss the point, but that's not surprising considering
>where your head is most of the time!
I would expect that Denis keeps his head on his shoulders, whilst he is
not nearly svelte enough to have crammed it into the place suggested by
a popular insult.
>The real point the poster is making is that if Demon do not pull their socks
>up people like him & myself will do exactly what you suggest, go to another
>ISP. No one can afford to haemorhage customers, and the number of posts I
>have seen in here recently about people leaving Demon suggest exactly that.
Death of Demon predicted. Film at eleven...
--
< Paul >
Paul C. Dickie
Brogan <mi...@broganassociates.com> writes
>BTW I signed up to Demon 2 months ago after losing my previous ISP,
>of problems with C9. When they did eventually go off the air, the thing
>that really pi55ed their customers off was not that they had problems
>but that they didn't come clean and tell them the truth (didn't tell
>them anything actually). Demon take note.
And you're worried that you think you moved from C9 to C5 or the
equivalent thereof? o-)
Demon used to be most remarkably forthcoming with details of
difficulties which could be had by fingering sta...@demon.co.uk and
still remains to be so, though the quality of the information there may
have declined somewhat.
--
< Paul >
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
CUTs...@hotmail.com "Sean McConkey" writes:
> He is not alone in his concerns over the degradation of Demons service, many
> included yourself, have moaned about it. How do you know he hasn't furnished
> Demon with the necessary information? Sometimes its almost impossible to to
> deliver this info. as you never get an answer on their Helpdesk number,
> (well call me a liar but once in 6 years isn't great CS if you ask me!)
As Richard has said elsewhere in the thread, there exists a means of
reporting a fault that requires neither speaking to a helpdesk operative
nor e-mail. Moreover, it doesn't cost the customer a penny!
IME, faults reported through this means (I've used it when there were
mail2news problems) result in a fix and/or acknowledgement within quite a
short space of time. Why not try it?
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} b...@dsl.co.uk
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of
distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr-
easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs