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Evening speed drops - is there any point in talking to Demon?
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Chris Marriott
May 8, 2013, 8:53:45 AM5/8/13
to
The normal download speed of my Business Unlimited connection is about
15.5MBit/Sec, but in the evening it often drops dramatically - last night,
for example, the download speed was hovering around 1.5-2MBit/Sec, which is
not enough to stream video without frequent pauses for rebuffering.
I also have on a 2nd BT line a BT Internet connection which is rock solid,
24h a day, at about 17.5MBit/Sec. Its speed does NOT fall in the evening (or
at any other time, come to that).
Clearly this this is a congestion issue, but given that my BT Internet
connection doesn't suffer from it, would it be reasonable to assume that
it's occurring beyond my local phone exchange - in the "pipe" which Demon
rent from BT Wholesale?
Is there any point in talking to Demon about it? I don't suppose there's
anything they can do about it, is there?
Cheers,
Chris
15.5MBit/Sec, but in the evening it often drops dramatically - last night,
for example, the download speed was hovering around 1.5-2MBit/Sec, which is
not enough to stream video without frequent pauses for rebuffering.
I also have on a 2nd BT line a BT Internet connection which is rock solid,
24h a day, at about 17.5MBit/Sec. Its speed does NOT fall in the evening (or
at any other time, come to that).
Clearly this this is a congestion issue, but given that my BT Internet
connection doesn't suffer from it, would it be reasonable to assume that
it's occurring beyond my local phone exchange - in the "pipe" which Demon
rent from BT Wholesale?
Is there any point in talking to Demon about it? I don't suppose there's
anything they can do about it, is there?
Cheers,
Chris
Peter Ceresole
May 8, 2013, 9:44:24 AM5/8/13
to
Chris Marriott <ch...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> The normal download speed of my Business Unlimited connection is about
> 15.5MBit/Sec, but in the evening it often drops dramatically - last night,
> for example, the download speed was hovering around 1.5-2MBit/Sec, which is
> not enough to stream video without frequent pauses for rebuffering.
All I can say is, most of the time, 'you lucky fellow'. My daytime *and*
> The normal download speed of my Business Unlimited connection is about
> 15.5MBit/Sec, but in the evening it often drops dramatically - last night,
> for example, the download speed was hovering around 1.5-2MBit/Sec, which is
> not enough to stream video without frequent pauses for rebuffering.
evening download speed via the Dulwich exchange, LLUed, is 4.5Mb/sec,
all day. Rebuffering iPlayer streams even in the evening it fairly rare,
but I'd love your daytime speed.
> Is there any point in talking to Demon about it? I don't suppose there's
> anything they can do about it, is there?
know that the Dulwich exchange is a manky old thing; I was told when I
moved here that I'd get 4Mb/s max, and that's proved to be fairly
accurate. But if you're getting 15 in the daytime and a tenth of that at
night, it smells of more than congestion- maybe traffic shaping on top.
Either way, Demon need to tell you.
--
Peter
Ian DALGLEISH
May 8, 2013, 1:41:35 PM5/8/13
to
I'm having a similar problem but not as drastic as your's.
For months, since I upgraded to ADSL2+, my download speed has been a regular 16.7 Mbps all through the day.
Seeing your posting, I ran the BT Wholesale speedtest at 1830 tonight (Wednesday).
My download speed is now only 9.02 Mbps !!
I will check it at various times during the day tomorrow.
Ian.
==========================
Ian Dalgleish
Ardrossan Academy Website
Chemistry Notes, Mac Apps etc
http://www.iandalgleish.co.uk/
Largs Website
==========================
Andy
May 8, 2013, 2:30:12 PM5/8/13
to
In message <2013050818413512485-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
program?
If so, does that program have any evident bad effects?
--
Andy Taylor [Editor, Austrian Philatelic Society].
Visit <URL:http://www.austrianphilately.com>
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
>
>I'm having a similar problem but not as drastic as your's.
>
>For months, since I upgraded to ADSL2+, my download speed has been a
>regular 16.7 Mbps all through the day.
>
>Seeing your posting, I ran the BT Wholesale speedtest at 1830 tonight
>(Wednesday).
>
Is that the one that requires you to have, or to install, some special
>I'm having a similar problem but not as drastic as your's.
>
>For months, since I upgraded to ADSL2+, my download speed has been a
>regular 16.7 Mbps all through the day.
>
>Seeing your posting, I ran the BT Wholesale speedtest at 1830 tonight
>(Wednesday).
>
program?
If so, does that program have any evident bad effects?
--
Andy Taylor [Editor, Austrian Philatelic Society].
Visit <URL:http://www.austrianphilately.com>
da...@ritter.demon.co.uk
May 8, 2013, 3:10:10 PM5/8/13
to
On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 1:53:45 PM UTC+1, Chris Marriott wrote:
> The normal download speed of my Business Unlimited connection is about
>
> 15.5MBit/Sec, but in the evening it often drops dramatically - last night,
>
> for example, the download speed was hovering around 1.5-2MBit/Sec, which is
>
> not enough to stream video without frequent pauses for rebuffering.
Seeing similar problems here, happens at the weekend as well rather than just evenings and started 1 1/2 - 2 weeks ago. ADSL sync is solid at 19Mbit, upload speed is just fine, only download speed that has an issue. I've been using about 120gig a month so had started to wonder if it was Business "Unlimited" rather than what has been sold as no cap.
> The normal download speed of my Business Unlimited connection is about
>
> 15.5MBit/Sec, but in the evening it often drops dramatically - last night,
>
> for example, the download speed was hovering around 1.5-2MBit/Sec, which is
>
> not enough to stream video without frequent pauses for rebuffering.
Ian DALGLEISH
May 9, 2013, 3:49:47 AM5/9/13
to
>>
> Is that the one that requires you to have, or to install, some special program?
It's just a web-based service:
> Is that the one that requires you to have, or to install, some special program?
http://speedtest.btwholesale.com
Ian
Martin Brown
May 9, 2013, 4:10:47 AM5/9/13
to
other statistics. Indeed you must do this before complaining about
problems since it uploads your line statistics to their server.
Actually there are too many beta test versions as well so I can never
remember which BT one(s) have what features and are still there.
BBC iPlayer diagnostics test site is also a useful independent test.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/diagnostics
Is another more practical test of bandwidth when streaming video.
A couple of things that happen at night are that ADSL SNR gets worse and
any crosstalk from neighbouring busy traffic lines goes up. Either of
these could hamper throughput a bit, but not to the extent of an order
of magnitude decrease in performance.
Most likely it is poor contention ratios though...
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Andy
May 9, 2013, 4:15:27 AM5/9/13
to
In message <2013050908494796748-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
>>>
Yup, it's the one I look at. It begins with a Red Warning page as below,
and wants me to lug my desktop downstairs, set up an ethernet
connection, shut down my antivirus and install Flash.
Thanks but no thanks.
===================================
BT Wholesale Broadband Performance Test
This broadband Performance Tester allows you to test the performance of
your broadband connection.
To use this tester you must have Flash installed and enabled on your
device.
Your broadband speed can be affected by a number of different factors
including the technology used to deliver it to your premises and the
type of connection you use to connect your device (PC, laptop,
smartphone etc.) to your router/hub.
Before beginning the test, please ensure:
1. Your computer is plugged into the broadband line to be tested. This
tester may not work on iPads/Tablets, smartphones or other mobile
devices.
2. Your computer is directly connected to your modem/router via an
Ethernet Connection (i.e. not via a wireless or powerline adapters).
3. Any wireless adapter in your computer is switched off.
4. Close any programs that may be running on your computer. This
includes any background programs such as anti-virus software, corporate
VPNs, peer2peer clients etc. (Please ensure you re-enable any anti-virus
software after you have finished testing).
5. Reboot your modem/router by powering it off, waiting one minute, and
then powering it up again. Wait for any lights on the router to
stabilise before starting the test.
6. Restart your browser.
7. Ensure no other people or devices (e.g. broadband-connected TV
set-top boxes) are using the broadband line to be tested.
8. Please note, it can take up to 10 days for your broadband line to
train up to its full speed. So bear in mind that any speed test during
this period may not reflect the true long-term speed of your broadband.
Please confirm that you have carried out the above steps. The speed test
may report inaccurate results by failure to comply with the above steps.
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
>>>
and wants me to lug my desktop downstairs, set up an ethernet
connection, shut down my antivirus and install Flash.
Thanks but no thanks.
===================================
BT Wholesale Broadband Performance Test
This broadband Performance Tester allows you to test the performance of
your broadband connection.
To use this tester you must have Flash installed and enabled on your
device.
Your broadband speed can be affected by a number of different factors
including the technology used to deliver it to your premises and the
type of connection you use to connect your device (PC, laptop,
smartphone etc.) to your router/hub.
Before beginning the test, please ensure:
1. Your computer is plugged into the broadband line to be tested. This
tester may not work on iPads/Tablets, smartphones or other mobile
devices.
2. Your computer is directly connected to your modem/router via an
Ethernet Connection (i.e. not via a wireless or powerline adapters).
3. Any wireless adapter in your computer is switched off.
4. Close any programs that may be running on your computer. This
includes any background programs such as anti-virus software, corporate
VPNs, peer2peer clients etc. (Please ensure you re-enable any anti-virus
software after you have finished testing).
5. Reboot your modem/router by powering it off, waiting one minute, and
then powering it up again. Wait for any lights on the router to
stabilise before starting the test.
6. Restart your browser.
7. Ensure no other people or devices (e.g. broadband-connected TV
set-top boxes) are using the broadband line to be tested.
8. Please note, it can take up to 10 days for your broadband line to
train up to its full speed. So bear in mind that any speed test during
this period may not reflect the true long-term speed of your broadband.
Please confirm that you have carried out the above steps. The speed test
may report inaccurate results by failure to comply with the above steps.
Martin Brown
May 9, 2013, 4:49:40 AM5/9/13
to
connections, but unless you live in a very WiFi saturated environment
they are being over cautious. Most WiFi today can handle the traffic
without any significant slowdown. Wired would be a couple of percent
faster unless you live in a war zone with everyone on the same channel.
> 4. Close any programs that may be running on your computer. This
> includes any background programs such as anti-virus software, corporate
> VPNs, peer2peer clients etc. (Please ensure you re-enable any anti-virus
> software after you have finished testing).
> 5. Reboot your modem/router by powering it off, waiting one minute, and
> then powering it up again. Wait for any lights on the router to
> stabilise before starting the test.
> 6. Restart your browser.
time. Indeed I'd suggest doing the test soon after a full restart.
> 7. Ensure no other people or devices (e.g. broadband-connected TV
> set-top boxes) are using the broadband line to be tested.
someone is also streaming HDTV on demand whilst you do the test.
> 8. Please note, it can take up to 10 days for your broadband line to
> train up to its full speed. So bear in mind that any speed test during
> this period may not reflect the true long-term speed of your broadband.
>
> Please confirm that you have carried out the above steps. The speed test
> may report inaccurate results by failure to comply with the above steps.
you may have to poke about a bit to find them. Also various third party
testers that will also show spot speeds tested in your region.
(this can also be enlightening)
Be a bit adventurous and tick the "Yes" box. Just accept that the true
speed may be under-reported if your WiFi isn't up to scratch.
I just had a very curious result on the additional diagnostics. I got
download speed reported as 3.63Mbps with a BRAS IP Profile of 3.5M!
Usually to all other sites I never see a speed higher than 90% of BRAS.
My IP profile is pegged back by an unreliable uplink connection :(
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Ian DALGLEISH
May 9, 2013, 5:20:33 AM5/9/13
to
Today (Thursday) as the rain pours down outside, and with nothing
better to do, I'm graphing my results from the BT Wholesale tester and
putting them on-line here:
http://www.iandalgleish.co.uk/speedGraph.htm
So far, at 1020, download is fairly consistant at about 16 Mbps - I
expect that to drop later on.
Upload is about 0.8 Mbps - I expect that this will not change much today.
I'll update the page as often as I can.
Ian.
better to do, I'm graphing my results from the BT Wholesale tester and
putting them on-line here:
http://www.iandalgleish.co.uk/speedGraph.htm
So far, at 1020, download is fairly consistant at about 16 Mbps - I
expect that to drop later on.
Upload is about 0.8 Mbps - I expect that this will not change much today.
I'll update the page as often as I can.
Ian.
John Hall
May 9, 2013, 5:21:06 AM5/9/13
to
In article <ufiC7qCf...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk>,
possibly the need for an ethernet connection, which I'm using anyway). I
just make sure that there isn't anything else downloading or uploading
while I'm doing the test. I suppose it's possible that my results are
less accurate than if I took their warnings more seriously, but I doubt
that they are wildly out.
--
John Hall
"Sir, I have found you an argument;
but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)
Andy <an...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> writes:
>In message <2013050908494796748-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian
>DALGLEISH <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
>>>>
>>> Is that the one that requires you to have, or to install, some
>>>special program?
>>
>>It's just a web-based service:
>>http://speedtest.btwholesale.com
>>
>Yup, it's the one I look at. It begins with a Red Warning page as
>below, and wants me to lug my desktop downstairs, set up an
>ethernet connection, shut down my antivirus and install Flash.
>
>Thanks but no thanks.
You can just ignore all of that apart from the need for Flash (and
>In message <2013050908494796748-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian
>DALGLEISH <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
>>>>
>>> Is that the one that requires you to have, or to install, some
>>>special program?
>>
>>It's just a web-based service:
>>http://speedtest.btwholesale.com
>>
>Yup, it's the one I look at. It begins with a Red Warning page as
>below, and wants me to lug my desktop downstairs, set up an
>ethernet connection, shut down my antivirus and install Flash.
>
>Thanks but no thanks.
possibly the need for an ethernet connection, which I'm using anyway). I
just make sure that there isn't anything else downloading or uploading
while I'm doing the test. I suppose it's possible that my results are
less accurate than if I took their warnings more seriously, but I doubt
that they are wildly out.
--
John Hall
"Sir, I have found you an argument;
but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)
Peter Ceresole
May 9, 2013, 5:25:04 AM5/9/13
to
Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> And you can feed BT Wholesale your phone no and it will display BRAS and
> other statistics. Indeed you must do this before complaining about
> problems since it uploads your line statistics to their server.
That assumes not just that BT are your line provider- which is pretty
> And you can feed BT Wholesale your phone no and it will display BRAS and
> other statistics. Indeed you must do this before complaining about
> problems since it uploads your line statistics to their server.
likely- but that your phone line contract is also with BT. Otherwise,
for fairly obvious reasons, they tell you to contact your provider.
An alternative, useful speed test is available from:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/
Their tester now requires Flash (it used not to) but does a nice
end-to-end test. If you register (free) it also keeps all your test
results in your profile, which can be useful (and sobering).
But it doesn't isolate results for your phone line. Any local glitches
will also appear.
--
Peter
Chris S
May 9, 2013, 6:08:36 AM5/9/13
to
"JD's Auto Speed Tester" as a useful tool for accumulating stats on
broadband speed. While very configerable I found its default set-up
was more than sufficient. Only Win (XP / 2003 / Vista / 2008 / Win 7/
Win 8) I'm afraid but it is free!
http://www.gmwsoftware.co.uk/
Regards,
Chris S
Andy
May 9, 2013, 8:15:24 AM5/9/13
to
In message <1l2llsc.jm6a4u1uas4spN%pe...@cara.demon.co.uk>, Peter
Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote
Hmmm. I must go out and water the string - it seems to have dried...
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=13681048522358991
1734
Ceresole <pe...@cara.demon.co.uk> wrote
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=13681048522358991
1734
Martin Brown
May 9, 2013, 8:31:28 AM5/9/13
to
What sync rate are you getting? And modem stats?
Even in the middle of nowhere on long lines I get half the latency at
40mS, twice that speed for download and four times for upload.
I used to get 20mS latency before the line fault forced interleaving on.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Andy
May 9, 2013, 10:41:25 AM5/9/13
to
In message <CGMit.20$sZ6...@newsfe16.iad>, Martin Brown
Rebooted, updated antivirus (not relevant but overdue!), tried again -
it's better.
Router is Speedtouch 580, Demonised. Some parameter called "Bandwidth
up/down" varies wildly - pre-reboot it was 64/3776 before the speed text
and 352/4832 after; post-reboot 288/6240.
I suspect severe contention, but will do more tests next week.
Exchange is 2 minutes by crow, 5 by road unless it's school-coming-out
time. The building predates much of the housing estates, so may be
struggling...
it's better.
Router is Speedtouch 580, Demonised. Some parameter called "Bandwidth
up/down" varies wildly - pre-reboot it was 64/3776 before the speed text
and 352/4832 after; post-reboot 288/6240.
I suspect severe contention, but will do more tests next week.
Exchange is 2 minutes by crow, 5 by road unless it's school-coming-out
time. The building predates much of the housing estates, so may be
struggling...
Martin Brown
May 9, 2013, 11:49:48 AM5/9/13
to
On 09/05/2013 15:41, Andy wrote:
> In message <CGMit.20$sZ6...@newsfe16.iad>, Martin Brown
> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote
>> On 09/05/2013 13:15, Andy wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmmm. I must go out and water the string - it seems to have dried...
>>>
>>> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=13681048522358991
>>>
>>> 1734
>>
>> Unless you are a very long way from the exchange something is wrong.
>> What sync rate are you getting? And modem stats?
>>
>> Even in the middle of nowhere on long lines I get half the latency at
>> 40mS, twice that speed for download and four times for upload.
>>
>> I used to get 20mS latency before the line fault forced interleaving on.
>>
> Rebooted, updated antivirus (not relevant but overdue!), tried again -
> it's better.
>
> Router is Speedtouch 580, Demonised. Some parameter called "Bandwidth
> up/down" varies wildly - pre-reboot it was 64/3776 before the speed text
> and 352/4832 after; post-reboot 288/6240.
>
> I suspect severe contention, but will do more tests next week.
That isn't contention. For some reason your uplink sync speed is
> In message <CGMit.20$sZ6...@newsfe16.iad>, Martin Brown
> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote
>> On 09/05/2013 13:15, Andy wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmmm. I must go out and water the string - it seems to have dried...
>>>
>>> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=13681048522358991
>>>
>>> 1734
>>
>> Unless you are a very long way from the exchange something is wrong.
>> What sync rate are you getting? And modem stats?
>>
>> Even in the middle of nowhere on long lines I get half the latency at
>> 40mS, twice that speed for download and four times for upload.
>>
>> I used to get 20mS latency before the line fault forced interleaving on.
>>
> Rebooted, updated antivirus (not relevant but overdue!), tried again -
> it's better.
>
> Router is Speedtouch 580, Demonised. Some parameter called "Bandwidth
> up/down" varies wildly - pre-reboot it was 64/3776 before the speed text
> and 352/4832 after; post-reboot 288/6240.
>
> I suspect severe contention, but will do more tests next week.
severely throttled back I get 448/4384 at present and BRAS 3500. If I
got the line card sorted it would be more like 448/5300 BRAS 4500 which
is about what it was before BT mucked it up last November.
See if the modem will display stats. My guess is you have a line fault
or something wrong at the exchange. 64/anything suggests bad problems or
corroded aluminium wiring in the signal path. Huge number of CRCs and
error seconds on the uplink would be my best guess.
If you haven't done so already look up the "bell wire" hack. eg
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/faq/sections/radsl.html#235
(at your own risk)
> Exchange is 2 minutes by crow, 5 by road unless it's school-coming-out
> time. The building predates much of the housing estates, so may be
> struggling...
uplink sync rate.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Denis McMahon
May 9, 2013, 1:14:42 PM5/9/13
to
On Thu, 09 May 2013 10:20:33 +0100, Ian DALGLEISH wrote:
> Today (Thursday) as the rain pours down outside, and with nothing better
> to do, I'm graphing my results from the BT Wholesale tester and putting
> them on-line here:
> http://www.iandalgleish.co.uk/speedGraph.htm
Hmm
> Today (Thursday) as the rain pours down outside, and with nothing better
> to do, I'm graphing my results from the BT Wholesale tester and putting
> them on-line here:
> http://www.iandalgleish.co.uk/speedGraph.htm
I just looked at my stats for April, I normally don't check this data,
but this thread prompted me to do so.
I notice that my upstream was steady at about 870 Kbit/sec until the 8th
April, on the 9th it dropped to just below 550 Kbit/sec, where it sat
until the 28th April, then it jumped up to 760 Kbit/sec on the 29th and
870 Kbit/sec on the 30th.
Downstream over the same period was pretty consistently between 5.35 and
5.75 Mbit/sec.
Now I'm wondering what happened to the upstream over those 20 or so
days ...
--
Denis McMahon, denismf...@gmail.com
Andy
May 9, 2013, 2:02:20 PM5/9/13
to
In message <zAPit.258$8K3...@newsfe26.iad>, Martin Brown
Now 128 / 5792
Something is wrong with the Speedtouch-PC interface - it displays the
full data only when it feels like it.
More to dig :(
Aha. By using the History within my browser I can get at more info...
===========================================
LAN
Wireless Interface
Mode = forwarding
kBytes Tx/Rx = 56146 / 4946
Frames Tx/Rx = 46490 / 34476
Discarded frames = 0
WAN
DSL Flavour = ADSL over POTS
Reserved Bandwidth (kbit/s) up/down = 128 / 5792
Properties
Output Power (dBm) up/down = 12.0 / 19.5
Attenuation (dB) up/down = 8.5 / 16.5
Noise Margin (dB) up/down = 7.0 / 17.5
Statistics
Loss of signal (local/remote) = 0 / 0
Loss of power (local/remote) = 0 / 0
Loss of framing (local/remote) = 0 / 0
Errored Seconds (local/remote) = 981 / 0
Loss of link (remote) = 0
=======================================
'CRC' not given.
This is in 24 minutes since last reboot.
Trubble at t'wire could explain the symptoms - I have not knowingly
altered anything for months, probably years, but the performance has
good times and bad times. The B T Quietline Test produces a deathly
hush.
If it IS some such problem, what do I need to do and with whom?
Something is wrong with the Speedtouch-PC interface - it displays the
full data only when it feels like it.
More to dig :(
Aha. By using the History within my browser I can get at more info...
===========================================
LAN
Wireless Interface
Mode = forwarding
kBytes Tx/Rx = 56146 / 4946
Frames Tx/Rx = 46490 / 34476
Discarded frames = 0
WAN
DSL Flavour = ADSL over POTS
Reserved Bandwidth (kbit/s) up/down = 128 / 5792
Properties
Output Power (dBm) up/down = 12.0 / 19.5
Attenuation (dB) up/down = 8.5 / 16.5
Noise Margin (dB) up/down = 7.0 / 17.5
Statistics
Loss of signal (local/remote) = 0 / 0
Loss of power (local/remote) = 0 / 0
Loss of framing (local/remote) = 0 / 0
Errored Seconds (local/remote) = 981 / 0
Loss of link (remote) = 0
=======================================
'CRC' not given.
This is in 24 minutes since last reboot.
Trubble at t'wire could explain the symptoms - I have not knowingly
altered anything for months, probably years, but the performance has
good times and bad times. The B T Quietline Test produces a deathly
hush.
If it IS some such problem, what do I need to do and with whom?
Andy
May 9, 2013, 2:15:34 PM5/9/13
to
In message <zAPit.258$8K3...@newsfe26.iad>, Martin Brown
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote
[]
"Download speed achieved during the test was 2.9 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.6 Mbps-7.15
Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate: 5.79 Mbps (DOWN-STREAM), 0.13 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is 3 Mbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your Broadband
Service Provider"
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote
[]
>It should be a lot better than that. Something is very wrong with the
>uplink sync rate.
>
>
Tried the BT test, then its Further Test.... results repunctuated...
>uplink sync rate.
>
>
"Download speed achieved during the test was 2.9 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.6 Mbps-7.15
Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate: 5.79 Mbps (DOWN-STREAM), 0.13 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is 3 Mbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your Broadband
Service Provider"
Martin Brown
May 9, 2013, 5:01:16 PM5/9/13
to
>
>
> Statistics
> Loss of signal (local/remote) = 0 / 0
> Loss of power (local/remote) = 0 / 0
> Loss of framing (local/remote) = 0 / 0
> Errored Seconds (local/remote) = 981 / 0
> Loss of link (remote) = 0
> =======================================
>
>
> 'CRC' not given.
> This is in 24 minutes since last reboot.
It looks terribly bad for 981 errored uplink seconds = 16mins in 24mins
>
> Statistics
> Loss of signal (local/remote) = 0 / 0
> Loss of power (local/remote) = 0 / 0
> Loss of framing (local/remote) = 0 / 0
> Errored Seconds (local/remote) = 981 / 0
> Loss of link (remote) = 0
> =======================================
>
>
> 'CRC' not given.
> This is in 24 minutes since last reboot.
elapsed. 60% of the uplink traffic is fatally errored.
I thought mine was really bad with roughly 1000 error seconds per day!!!
(by comparison the downlink is error seconds free for weeks at a time,
and a mere few hundred of each sort of FEC, CRC and HEC)
Until last November when it fell of a cliff I had Fastpath 20ms ping.
These are my line stats after several days uptime:
page shows information about your ADSL connection if applicable.
Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.1(G.DMT)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 448 (Kbps.)
Downstream 4384 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 21.0 dB 8.5 dB
Line Attenuation 27.0 dB 46.5 dB
Note my pretty poor line attentuation.
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.1 dBm 19.9 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 2408489400 309
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 215461 213
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 308215 123
Error Seconds 12194 0
Statistics
Received Cells 44559011
Transmitted Cells 17704055
>
> Trubble at t'wire could explain the symptoms - I have not knowingly
> altered anything for months, probably years, but the performance has
> good times and bad times. The B T Quietline Test produces a deathly
> hush.
>
>
> If it IS some such problem, what do I need to do and with whom?
diagnostic shows an obvious dry joint fault. But the fault I have is
almost certainly inside the exchange and will require considerably more
ISP pestering to get resolved. I don't have time to do it at present.
I can live with 3.2Mbps but 4.5M again would be nicer.
I do get some interesting line faults - eg. a tree on the line.
(and it is windy tonight with trees in leaf)
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
J. P. Gilliver (John)
May 10, 2013, 2:27:35 AM5/10/13
to
In message <GqJit.12$1G7...@newsfe11.iad>, Martin Brown
[]
How do 5/6 square with 8?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
When I'm good, I'm very good. But when I'm bad - I'm better! (Mae West)
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> writes:
>On 09/05/2013 09:15, Andy wrote:
>> In message <2013050908494796748-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
>> <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
[]
>On 09/05/2013 09:15, Andy wrote:
>> In message <2013050908494796748-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
>> <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
[]
>> 5. Reboot your modem/router by powering it off, waiting one minute, and
>> then powering it up again. Wait for any lights on the router to
>> stabilise before starting the test.
>> 6. Restart your browser.
>
>These might be important if the machine has been running for a very
>long time. Indeed I'd suggest doing the test soon after a full restart.
[]
>> then powering it up again. Wait for any lights on the router to
>> stabilise before starting the test.
>> 6. Restart your browser.
>
>These might be important if the machine has been running for a very
>long time. Indeed I'd suggest doing the test soon after a full restart.
>> 8. Please note, it can take up to 10 days for your broadband line to
>> train up to its full speed. So bear in mind that any speed test during
>> this period may not reflect the true long-term speed of your broadband.
[]
>> train up to its full speed. So bear in mind that any speed test during
>> this period may not reflect the true long-term speed of your broadband.
How do 5/6 square with 8?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
When I'm good, I'm very good. But when I'm bad - I'm better! (Mae West)
Peter Ceresole
May 10, 2013, 3:16:36 AM5/10/13
to
J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> 5. Reboot your modem/router by powering it off, waiting one minute, and
> >> then powering it up again. Wait for any lights on the router to
> >> stabilise before starting the test.
> >> 6. Restart your browser.
> >
> >These might be important if the machine has been running for a very
> >long time. Indeed I'd suggest doing the test soon after a full restart.
> []
> >> 8. Please note, it can take up to 10 days for your broadband line to
> >> train up to its full speed. So bear in mind that any speed test during
> >> this period may not reflect the true long-term speed of your broadband.
> []
> How do 5/6 square with 8?
As I understand it, the retraining takes place at the exchange, not at
> >> 5. Reboot your modem/router by powering it off, waiting one minute, and
> >> then powering it up again. Wait for any lights on the router to
> >> stabilise before starting the test.
> >> 6. Restart your browser.
> >
> >These might be important if the machine has been running for a very
> >long time. Indeed I'd suggest doing the test soon after a full restart.
> []
> >> 8. Please note, it can take up to 10 days for your broadband line to
> >> train up to its full speed. So bear in mind that any speed test during
> >> this period may not reflect the true long-term speed of your broadband.
> []
> How do 5/6 square with 8?
your end, and is a slow 'averaging' process that takes some time to
happen (as they indicate). So router restarts- provided they aren't
taking place several times a day over a long period- shouldn't seriously
affect the speed. Routers can get themselves into odd states, with
buffers fillling up and severely affecting performance. I used to use a
Netgear DG834N, in many ways excellent especially after a firmware
update, which would regularly- every week and a bit- slow to a halt. A
restart would reset whatever was wrong and it would work fine for
another week and then slow down again. The line speed overall wasn't
affected; after the restart it would remain the same as before. The
Demon-provided Techicolor router doesn't suffer from this kind of
regular fade, and the line speed has remained consistently the same.
Both routers were left switched on 24/7.
--
Peter
Martin Brown
May 10, 2013, 3:40:30 AM5/10/13
to
On 10/05/2013 07:27, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <GqJit.12$1G7...@newsfe11.iad>, Martin Brown
> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> On 09/05/2013 09:15, Andy wrote:
>>> In message <2013050908494796748-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
>>> <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
> []
>>>> It's just a web-based service:
>>>> http://speedtest.btwholesale.com
> []
>>> 5. Reboot your modem/router by powering it off, waiting one minute, and
>>> then powering it up again. Wait for any lights on the router to
>>> stabilise before starting the test.
>>> 6. Restart your browser.
>>
>> These might be important if the machine has been running for a very
>> long time. Indeed I'd suggest doing the test soon after a full restart.
> []
>>> 8. Please note, it can take up to 10 days for your broadband line to
>>> train up to its full speed. So bear in mind that any speed test during
>>> this period may not reflect the true long-term speed of your broadband.
> []
> How do 5/6 square with 8?
When they reset the BRAS or change something radically like the card in
> In message <GqJit.12$1G7...@newsfe11.iad>, Martin Brown
> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> On 09/05/2013 09:15, Andy wrote:
>>> In message <2013050908494796748-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
>>> <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
> []
>>>> It's just a web-based service:
>>>> http://speedtest.btwholesale.com
> []
>>> 5. Reboot your modem/router by powering it off, waiting one minute, and
>>> then powering it up again. Wait for any lights on the router to
>>> stabilise before starting the test.
>>> 6. Restart your browser.
>>
>> These might be important if the machine has been running for a very
>> long time. Indeed I'd suggest doing the test soon after a full restart.
> []
>>> 8. Please note, it can take up to 10 days for your broadband line to
>>> train up to its full speed. So bear in mind that any speed test during
>>> this period may not reflect the true long-term speed of your broadband.
> []
> How do 5/6 square with 8?
the exchange then the line hardware has to relearn its calibration
almost from scratch. This determines the sync rate up and down. BRAS
then limits the amount of data put on the line - mine is not great at
the moment. It aims for a nominal 6dB SNR on a decent quality line.
Once this initial calibration is complete which seems to take about 10
days the line settles down to something pretty close to the same every
time you connect. After the initial calibration it seems to tweak up or
down slightly every 3 day anniversary for a while.
You can force a slightly faster connection by reconnecting at midday
when the SNR is highest or a slightly slower connection by reconnecting
at night when the SNR is worse due to distant MW radio pickup.
If ever the line drops spontaneously or loses sync the modems
renegotiate for a lower speed higher SNR connection if the frequency of
such disconnects exceeds some threshold of between 1 and 5 a day.
Switching the modem on and off once a day will do no harm and might even
tidy up the memory management on some badly designed ones!
Do it too often though and the exchange will mistake it for a bad line
and start to back off the sync rate.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
metric...@yahoo.com
May 10, 2013, 12:00:27 PM5/10/13
to
Andy wrote:
>2. Your computer is directly connected to your modem/router via an
>Ethernet Connection (i.e. not via a wireless or powerline adapters).
>3. Any wireless adapter in your computer is switched off.
That is very good advice. People in this newsgroup are likely to be more technical than average. But for less technically aware users it's important to rule out wifi as the source of problems.
>2. Your computer is directly connected to your modem/router via an
>Ethernet Connection (i.e. not via a wireless or powerline adapters).
>3. Any wireless adapter in your computer is switched off.
For example, I was in a business with four routers. They couldn't work out why performance was poor. Focussing on wifi (using 'Wifi Analyser') revealed the four routers using adjacent channels or next-but-one.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
May 10, 2013, 4:08:40 PM5/10/13
to
In message <Rv1jt.304$ug3...@newsfe30.iad>, Martin Brown
seemed worth asking.
mathematics score of nought. - Christopher Lee (1997).
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> writes:
>On 10/05/2013 07:27, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> In message <GqJit.12$1G7...@newsfe11.iad>, Martin Brown
>> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>> On 09/05/2013 09:15, Andy wrote:
>>>> In message <2013050908494796748-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
>>>> <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
>> []
>>>>> It's just a web-based service:
>>>>> http://speedtest.btwholesale.com
>> []
>>>> 5. Reboot your modem/router by powering it off, waiting one minute, and
>>>> then powering it up again. Wait for any lights on the router to
>>>> stabilise before starting the test.
>>>> 6. Restart your browser.
>>>
>>> These might be important if the machine has been running for a very
>>> long time. Indeed I'd suggest doing the test soon after a full restart.
>> []
>>>> 8. Please note, it can take up to 10 days for your broadband line to
>>>> train up to its full speed. So bear in mind that any speed test during
>>>> this period may not reflect the true long-term speed of your broadband.
>> []
>> How do 5/6 square with 8?
>
>When they reset the BRAS or change something radically like the card in
>the exchange then the line hardware has to relearn its calibration
[]
>On 10/05/2013 07:27, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> In message <GqJit.12$1G7...@newsfe11.iad>, Martin Brown
>> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>> On 09/05/2013 09:15, Andy wrote:
>>>> In message <2013050908494796748-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
>>>> <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> wrote
>> []
>>>>> It's just a web-based service:
>>>>> http://speedtest.btwholesale.com
>> []
>>>> 5. Reboot your modem/router by powering it off, waiting one minute, and
>>>> then powering it up again. Wait for any lights on the router to
>>>> stabilise before starting the test.
>>>> 6. Restart your browser.
>>>
>>> These might be important if the machine has been running for a very
>>> long time. Indeed I'd suggest doing the test soon after a full restart.
>> []
>>>> 8. Please note, it can take up to 10 days for your broadband line to
>>>> train up to its full speed. So bear in mind that any speed test during
>>>> this period may not reflect the true long-term speed of your broadband.
>> []
>> How do 5/6 square with 8?
>
>When they reset the BRAS or change something radically like the card in
>the exchange then the line hardware has to relearn its calibration
>Switching the modem on and off once a day will do no harm and might
>even tidy up the memory management on some badly designed ones!
>
>Do it too often though and the exchange will mistake it for a bad line
>and start to back off the sync rate.
>
Thanks Martin and Peter. I thought it was two separate things, but it
>even tidy up the memory management on some badly designed ones!
>
>Do it too often though and the exchange will mistake it for a bad line
>and start to back off the sync rate.
>
seemed worth asking.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
I'm the only person who won scholarships to both Eton and Wellington with a
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
mathematics score of nought. - Christopher Lee (1997).
Dr J R Stockton
May 10, 2013, 3:49:01 PM5/10/13
to
In demon.service message <3m+U11Is...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk>, Thu,
9 May 2013 19:02:20, Andy <an...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> posted:
>
>Trubble at t'wire could explain the symptoms - I have not knowingly
>altered anything for months, probably years, but the performance has
>good times and bad times. The B T Quietline Test produces a deathly
>hush.
>
If part of the connection is 30 years old and uses "blue beans", then
they are expected to be failing about now, and need to be modernised by,
I suppose, OpenReach. They are blue, bean-sized solderless twist-on
connectors used, for example, to join a wire entering premises to one
internal to premises - perhaps hidden in something looking like a giant
OC71. Or something like that; no doubt a bean expert will now appear.
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. E-mail, see Home Page. Turnpike v6.05.
Website <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc. : <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see in 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm estrdate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
9 May 2013 19:02:20, Andy <an...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> posted:
>
>Trubble at t'wire could explain the symptoms - I have not knowingly
>altered anything for months, probably years, but the performance has
>good times and bad times. The B T Quietline Test produces a deathly
>hush.
>
they are expected to be failing about now, and need to be modernised by,
I suppose, OpenReach. They are blue, bean-sized solderless twist-on
connectors used, for example, to join a wire entering premises to one
internal to premises - perhaps hidden in something looking like a giant
OC71. Or something like that; no doubt a bean expert will now appear.
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. E-mail, see Home Page. Turnpike v6.05.
Website <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc. : <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see in 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm estrdate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
Charles Ellson
May 10, 2013, 7:55:34 PM5/10/13
to
On Fri, 10 May 2013 20:49:01 +0100, Dr J R Stockton
<repl...@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>In demon.service message <3m+U11Is...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk>, Thu,
>9 May 2013 19:02:20, Andy <an...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> posted:
>
>>
>>Trubble at t'wire could explain the symptoms - I have not knowingly
>>altered anything for months, probably years, but the performance has
>>good times and bad times. The B T Quietline Test produces a deathly
>>hush.
>>
>
>
>If part of the connection is 30 years old and uses "blue beans", then
>they are expected to be failing about now, and need to be modernised by,
>I suppose, OpenReach. They are blue, bean-sized solderless twist-on
>connectors used, for example, to join a wire entering premises to one
>internal to premises - perhaps hidden in something looking like a giant
>OC71. Or something like that; no doubt a bean expert will now appear.
>
If you're referring to what I think you are then they are crimped
<repl...@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>In demon.service message <3m+U11Is...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk>, Thu,
>9 May 2013 19:02:20, Andy <an...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> posted:
>
>>
>>Trubble at t'wire could explain the symptoms - I have not knowingly
>>altered anything for months, probably years, but the performance has
>>good times and bad times. The B T Quietline Test produces a deathly
>>hush.
>>
>
>
>If part of the connection is 30 years old and uses "blue beans", then
>they are expected to be failing about now, and need to be modernised by,
>I suppose, OpenReach. They are blue, bean-sized solderless twist-on
>connectors used, for example, to join a wire entering premises to one
>internal to premises - perhaps hidden in something looking like a giant
>OC71. Or something like that; no doubt a bean expert will now appear.
>
joints not twist-on; also primarily intended for aluminium cable
(which you can't do twisted joints on) but not AFAIR specifically
barred for use with copper.
Chris Marriott
May 11, 2013, 6:22:55 AM5/11/13
to
In my case, upload speed is absolutely rock-solid at at 1.02-1.03MBit/Sec;
it's only the download speed that varies. At the moment, for example (11am
on Saturday morning) I'm getting a download speed of about 14MBit/Sec, which
isn't too bad, but as the evening approaches I know that it will steadily
fall to typically around 2-3MBit, where it will stay until perhaps 11pm, at
which point the speed starts to recover. To my mind, this is clearly
indicative of contention.
Chris
it's only the download speed that varies. At the moment, for example (11am
on Saturday morning) I'm getting a download speed of about 14MBit/Sec, which
isn't too bad, but as the evening approaches I know that it will steadily
fall to typically around 2-3MBit, where it will stay until perhaps 11pm, at
which point the speed starts to recover. To my mind, this is clearly
indicative of contention.
Chris
Ian DALGLEISH
May 11, 2013, 7:46:22 AM5/11/13
to
+++++++++
"I was upgraded to ADSL2+ on 5 March and was delighted to get a steady
download speed of around 16-17 Mbps which did not degrade during the
day. Recently, however, I noticed that my download speed, measured
using speedtest.btwholesale.com, began to degrade markedly after 1300
every day, returning to normal around midnight.
On Thursday 9 May I kept a record of the data obtained from
speedtest.btwholesale.com at various intervals throughout the day. You
can view my results here:
http://www.iandalgleish.co.uk/speedGraph.htm
As you can see, upload speed does not change during the day but
download speed drops drastically just after 1300 regularly, every day.
This did not happen during March. I have no records for the 1300 -
midnight period during April but the reduction in speed must be a
fairly recent phenomenon.
So, what's going on ? Why is there such a dramatic reduction just after 1300 ?!
I hope you'll investigate this for me."
+++++++++
I got this slightly encouraging reply:
+++++++++
"We are aware of an issue which may be effecting some customers,
engineers are currently investigating. Notes have been added to your
account and linked to the main investigation case for you."
+++++++++
My download speed this Saturday at 1245 is 7.24 Mbps
Is your situation anything like mine - look at the data I uploaded?
Ian
--
==========================
Ian Dalgleish
Ardrossan Academy Website
http://www.ardacad.co.uk/
Chemistry Notes, Mac Apps etc
http://www.iandalgleish.co.uk/
Largs Website
http://www.mylargs.com
==========================
Chris Marriott
May 11, 2013, 10:33:04 AM5/11/13
to
Thanks for reporting that, Ian. Yes, our situations look very similar,
although I'm getting much more drastic speed reductions in the evening (as I
said, I'm typically seeing evening download speeds of 2-3MBit). Like you,
I've only noticed this happening in the last few weeks, and the fact that my
BT Internet connection does NOT exhibit this behaviour strongly suggests to
me that it's something downstream from my local exchange - ie, between the
exchange and Demon.
I'm going away for a couple of weeks on Monday, but after I get back I too
will start to serious chase this with Demon.
All the best,
Chris
although I'm getting much more drastic speed reductions in the evening (as I
said, I'm typically seeing evening download speeds of 2-3MBit). Like you,
I've only noticed this happening in the last few weeks, and the fact that my
BT Internet connection does NOT exhibit this behaviour strongly suggests to
me that it's something downstream from my local exchange - ie, between the
exchange and Demon.
I'm going away for a couple of weeks on Monday, but after I get back I too
will start to serious chase this with Demon.
All the best,
Chris
Ian DALGLEISH
May 11, 2013, 11:00:05 AM5/11/13
to
> Thanks for reporting that, Ian.
reporting "IP Profile for your line is - 7.17 Mbps". Yesterday it was
17.06 Mbps!!! It looks like I'm back on ADSL.
This is very strange !
Ian
Chris Marriott
May 11, 2013, 11:08:40 AM5/11/13
to
"Ian DALGLEISH" wrote in message
news:2013051116000573427-igd@methyldemoncouk...
>I've also noticed today (Saturday) that the BT Wholesale speedtester is
>reporting "IP Profile for your line is - 7.17 Mbps". Yesterday it was 17.06
>Mbps!!! It looks like I'm back on ADSL.
download speed, the downspeed line rate reported by the router is still (at
the moment) 18647 kbit.
Chris
Ian DALGLEISH
May 11, 2013, 12:54:58 PM5/11/13
to
>
> What sync speed is your router reporting? Even when I'm on my 2-3Mbit
> download speed, the downspeed line rate reported by the router is still
> (at the moment) 18647 kbit.
I have a Technicolor TG582n router
> What sync speed is your router reporting? Even when I'm on my 2-3Mbit
> download speed, the downspeed line rate reported by the router is still
> (at the moment) 18647 kbit.
It was reporting:
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.152/8.128
I rebooted the router and it's now reporting:
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.183/19.255
Incidentally, surely that 'kbps' should be 'Mbps' ?
My current speed, reported by the BT Wholesale speed test site, is:
Download Speed (Mbps): 16.76
Upload Speed (Mbps): 0.93
Ping Latency (ms): 31.13
I'm happy ....... for now.
Maybe I need to reboot my router more often :-)
Ian.
--
John Hall
May 11, 2013, 1:39:20 PM5/11/13
to
In article <2013051117545862833-igd@methyldemoncouk>,
comma using normal UK/US numerical conventions..
Ian DALGLEISH <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes:
>I have a Technicolor TG582n router
>
>It was reporting:
>Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.152/8.128
>
>I rebooted the router and it's now reporting:
>Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.183/19.255
>
>Incidentally, surely that 'kbps' should be 'Mbps' ?
Is it manufactured in France? My guess is that the full stop would be a
>I have a Technicolor TG582n router
>
>It was reporting:
>Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.152/8.128
>
>I rebooted the router and it's now reporting:
>Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.183/19.255
>
>Incidentally, surely that 'kbps' should be 'Mbps' ?
comma using normal UK/US numerical conventions..
Ian DALGLEISH
May 11, 2013, 2:38:04 PM5/11/13
to
>>
>> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.183/19.255
>>
>> Incidentally, surely that 'kbps' should be 'Mbps' ?
>
> Is it manufactured in France? My guess is that the full stop would be a
> comma using normal UK/US numerical conventions..
It's very confusing, either way !
>> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.183/19.255
>>
>> Incidentally, surely that 'kbps' should be 'Mbps' ?
>
> Is it manufactured in France? My guess is that the full stop would be a
> comma using normal UK/US numerical conventions..
To me a "." means a decimal point so 6.000 is six not six thousand !!
Ian
John Hall
May 11, 2013, 4:28:31 PM5/11/13
to
In article <2013051119380425289-igd@methyldemoncouk>,
the comma and the full stop are reversed, so that 6.000 would be six
thousand and 6,000 would be six. Unless I imagined it?
Ian DALGLEISH <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.183/19.255
>>> Incidentally, surely that 'kbps' should be 'Mbps' ?
>> Is it manufactured in France? My guess is that the full stop
>>would be a
>> comma using normal UK/US numerical conventions..
>
>It's very confusing, either way !
>To me a "." means a decimal point so 6.000 is six not six thousand
>!!
But in France - and I think most European countries - the meanings of
>>> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.183/19.255
>>> Incidentally, surely that 'kbps' should be 'Mbps' ?
>> Is it manufactured in France? My guess is that the full stop
>>would be a
>> comma using normal UK/US numerical conventions..
>
>It's very confusing, either way !
>To me a "." means a decimal point so 6.000 is six not six thousand
>!!
the comma and the full stop are reversed, so that 6.000 would be six
thousand and 6,000 would be six. Unless I imagined it?
metric...@yahoo.com
May 11, 2013, 4:40:43 PM5/11/13
to
Ian DALGLEISH wrote:
>>Is it manufactured in France? My guess is that the full stop would be a
>>comma using normal UK/US numerical conventions..
>
>It's very confusing, either way !
>To me a "." means a decimal point so 6.000 is six not six thousand !!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_31-0
>>Is it manufactured in France? My guess is that the full stop would be a
>>comma using normal UK/US numerical conventions..
>
>It's very confusing, either way !
>To me a "." means a decimal point so 6.000 is six not six thousand !!
ISO 31-0 (after Amendment 2) specifies that "the decimal sign is either the comma on the line or the point on the line".
Peter Ceresole
May 11, 2013, 6:34:33 PM5/11/13
to
John Hall <nospam...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> But in France - and I think most European countries - the meanings of
> the comma and the full stop are reversed, so that 6.000 would be six
> thousand and 6,000 would be six. Unless I imagined it?
This isn't gospel but... I reckon 6.000 would be six, and 6,000 would be
> But in France - and I think most European countries - the meanings of
> the comma and the full stop are reversed, so that 6.000 would be six
> thousand and 6,000 would be six. Unless I imagined it?
six thousand. This is in 'civilian' use...
--
Peter
Jim Crowther
May 12, 2013, 5:00:45 AM5/12/13
to
--
Jim Crowther
John Hall
May 12, 2013, 5:47:29 AM5/12/13
to
In article <L6n3XCQ9...@nospam.at.my.choice.of.UID.invalid>,
That sounds like a recipe for disaster!
Peter Ceresole
May 12, 2013, 5:56:35 AM5/12/13
to
John Hall <nospam...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> >>This isn't gospel but... I reckon 6.000 would be six, and 6,000 would be
> >>six thousand. This is in 'civilian' use...
> >
> >Both ways round are used over the channel - so context is everything!
> >
>
> That sounds like a recipe for disaster!
It might be, but in practice (over decades) 6,000 is the usual format
> >>This isn't gospel but... I reckon 6.000 would be six, and 6,000 would be
> >>six thousand. This is in 'civilian' use...
> >
> >Both ways round are used over the channel - so context is everything!
> >
>
> That sounds like a recipe for disaster!
for thousands.
--
Peter
Ian DALGLEISH
May 12, 2013, 6:09:09 AM5/12/13
to
>
> It might be, but in practice (over decades) 6,000 is the usual format
> for thousands.
Try doing any calculation (spreadsheet, calculator, computer app etc)
> It might be, but in practice (over decades) 6,000 is the usual format
> for thousands.
with a comma in any of the numbers - the calculation will fail ! My
calculator doesn't even have a key for the comma. The decimal point
should be a "."
Point made (no pun intended).
Ian.
Jim Crowther
May 12, 2013, 6:20:21 AM5/12/13
to
In demon.service, on Sun, 12 May 2013 11:09:09, Ian DALGLEISH wrote:
>> It might be, but in practice (over decades) 6,000 is the usual
>>format
>> for thousands.
>
>Try doing any calculation (spreadsheet, calculator, computer app etc)
>with a comma in any of the numbers - the calculation will fail ! My
>calculator doesn't even have a key for the comma. The decimal point
>should be a "."
>Point made (no pun intended).
Change your spreadsheet language to French (France), say, and the
>> It might be, but in practice (over decades) 6,000 is the usual
>>format
>> for thousands.
>
>Try doing any calculation (spreadsheet, calculator, computer app etc)
>with a comma in any of the numbers - the calculation will fail ! My
>calculator doesn't even have a key for the comma. The decimal point
>should be a "."
>Point made (no pun intended).
decimal separator becomes a comma. That's in Openoffice at least, can't
speak for Microsoft.
--
Jim Crowther
Dr J R Stockton
May 12, 2013, 1:00:35 PM5/12/13
to
In demon.service message <in1ro8p55991oqspo...@4ax.com>,
Sat, 11 May 2013 00:55:34, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> posted:
The blue beans which I saw were blue, much the size of a beans in a
prosperous runner bean pod, and were called blue beans by the visiting
engineer; I can vouch for that, and for the installation being a little
over 30 years old. He said that they were twist-on; and they bore no
sign of having been squeezed by more than finger-holding. I saw the
replacements for my line to be crimped and jelly-fish coloured. I did
not check the metals; but they looked more like dirty copper than dirty
aluminium - though that would depend on the origin of the dirt.
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. For Mail, see Home Page. Turnpike, WinXP.
Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQ-type topics, acronyms, and links.
Command-prompt MiniTrue is useful for viewing/searching/altering files. Free,
DOS/Win/UNIX now 2.0.6; see <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/pc-links.htm>.
Sat, 11 May 2013 00:55:34, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> posted:
prosperous runner bean pod, and were called blue beans by the visiting
engineer; I can vouch for that, and for the installation being a little
over 30 years old. He said that they were twist-on; and they bore no
sign of having been squeezed by more than finger-holding. I saw the
replacements for my line to be crimped and jelly-fish coloured. I did
not check the metals; but they looked more like dirty copper than dirty
aluminium - though that would depend on the origin of the dirt.
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. For Mail, see Home Page. Turnpike, WinXP.
Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQ-type topics, acronyms, and links.
Command-prompt MiniTrue is useful for viewing/searching/altering files. Free,
DOS/Win/UNIX now 2.0.6; see <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/pc-links.htm>.
Charles Ellson
May 12, 2013, 6:54:04 PM5/12/13
to
On Sun, 12 May 2013 18:00:35 +0100, Dr J R Stockton
If it didn't look coppery then its probably been damp and become
oxidised.
oxidised.
Martin Brown
May 13, 2013, 2:31:09 AM5/13/13
to
On 12/05/2013 23:54, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2013 18:00:35 +0100, Dr J R Stockton
> <repl...@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In demon.service message <in1ro8p55991oqspo...@4ax.com>,
>> Sat, 11 May 2013 00:55:34, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> posted:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 May 2013 20:49:01 +0100, Dr J R Stockton
>>> <repl...@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In demon.service message <3m+U11Is...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk>, Thu,
>>>> 9 May 2013 19:02:20, Andy <an...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> posted:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trubble at t'wire could explain the symptoms - I have not knowingly
>>>>> altered anything for months, probably years, but the performance has
>>>>> good times and bad times. The B T Quietline Test produces a deathly
>>>>> hush.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If part of the connection is 30 years old and uses "blue beans", then
>>>> they are expected to be failing about now, and need to be modernised by,
>>>> I suppose, OpenReach. They are blue, bean-sized solderless twist-on
>>>> connectors used, for example, to join a wire entering premises to one
>>>> internal to premises - perhaps hidden in something looking like a giant
>>>> OC71. Or something like that; no doubt a bean expert will now appear.
>>>>
>>> If you're referring to what I think you are then they are crimped
>>> joints not twist-on; also primarily intended for aluminium cable
>>> (which you can't do twisted joints on) but not AFAIR specifically
>>> barred for use with copper.
Aluminium cables seem to be particularly dire for ADSL. Dunno why.
> On Sun, 12 May 2013 18:00:35 +0100, Dr J R Stockton
> <repl...@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In demon.service message <in1ro8p55991oqspo...@4ax.com>,
>> Sat, 11 May 2013 00:55:34, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> posted:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 May 2013 20:49:01 +0100, Dr J R Stockton
>>> <repl...@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In demon.service message <3m+U11Is...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk>, Thu,
>>>> 9 May 2013 19:02:20, Andy <an...@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> posted:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trubble at t'wire could explain the symptoms - I have not knowingly
>>>>> altered anything for months, probably years, but the performance has
>>>>> good times and bad times. The B T Quietline Test produces a deathly
>>>>> hush.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If part of the connection is 30 years old and uses "blue beans", then
>>>> they are expected to be failing about now, and need to be modernised by,
>>>> I suppose, OpenReach. They are blue, bean-sized solderless twist-on
>>>> connectors used, for example, to join a wire entering premises to one
>>>> internal to premises - perhaps hidden in something looking like a giant
>>>> OC71. Or something like that; no doubt a bean expert will now appear.
>>>>
>>> If you're referring to what I think you are then they are crimped
>>> joints not twist-on; also primarily intended for aluminium cable
>>> (which you can't do twisted joints on) but not AFAIR specifically
>>> barred for use with copper.
>>
>> The blue beans which I saw were blue, much the size of a beans in a
>> prosperous runner bean pod, and were called blue beans by the visiting
>> engineer; I can vouch for that, and for the installation being a little
>> over 30 years old. He said that they were twist-on; and they bore no
>> sign of having been squeezed by more than finger-holding. I saw the
>> replacements for my line to be crimped and jelly-fish coloured. I did
>> not check the metals; but they looked more like dirty copper than dirty
>> aluminium - though that would depend on the origin of the dirt.
>>
> If it didn't look coppery then its probably been damp and become
> oxidised.
Bare bright copper wire develops a visible matt oxide coating on a
>> The blue beans which I saw were blue, much the size of a beans in a
>> prosperous runner bean pod, and were called blue beans by the visiting
>> engineer; I can vouch for that, and for the installation being a little
>> over 30 years old. He said that they were twist-on; and they bore no
>> sign of having been squeezed by more than finger-holding. I saw the
>> replacements for my line to be crimped and jelly-fish coloured. I did
>> not check the metals; but they looked more like dirty copper than dirty
>> aluminium - though that would depend on the origin of the dirt.
>>
> If it didn't look coppery then its probably been damp and become
> oxidised.
timescale of three to five years. The contact surfaces not exposed to
air should remain relatively clean but will eventually develop a slight
semiconductor junction effect as the oxide coat gets gradually thicker.
Moisture tends to produce nice copper carbonate and a green verdigris a
la copper roofing type covering etching away at the metal.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Charles Ellson
May 13, 2013, 6:59:04 PM5/13/13
to
worrying about deterioration. For any telephone at least as good as a
700-type this won't matter too much in the case of a line with a fair
length of Al in it as long as it is noise-free and stable but with
broadband you could be somewhat stuffed as the requirement is merely
for the line to be sufficient for telephone service.
>>>
>>> The blue beans which I saw were blue, much the size of a beans in a
>>> prosperous runner bean pod, and were called blue beans by the visiting
>>> engineer; I can vouch for that, and for the installation being a little
>>> over 30 years old. He said that they were twist-on; and they bore no
>>> sign of having been squeezed by more than finger-holding. I saw the
>>> replacements for my line to be crimped and jelly-fish coloured. I did
>>> not check the metals; but they looked more like dirty copper than dirty
>>> aluminium - though that would depend on the origin of the dirt.
>>>
>> If it didn't look coppery then its probably been damp and become
>> oxidised.
>
>Bare bright copper wire develops a visible matt oxide coating on a
>timescale of three to five years. The contact surfaces not exposed to
>air should remain relatively clean but will eventually develop a slight
>semiconductor junction effect as the oxide coat gets gradually thicker.
>
>Moisture tends to produce nice copper carbonate and a green verdigris a
>la copper roofing type covering etching away at the metal.
>
tend to look blackened due to more short-term processes presumably
with more involvement of electrolysis.
Andy
May 14, 2013, 12:34:44 PM5/14/13
to
In message <QTlso4Hv...@jhall.demon.co.uk.invalid>, John Hall
<nospam...@jhall.co.uk> wrote
6 German thousands are 6.000
6 German millions may be 6,000.000 or 6.000.000 - I think one is correct
and the other wrong but don't know which.
--
Andy Taylor [Editor, Austrian Philatelic Society].
Visit <URL:http://www.austrianphilately.com>
<nospam...@jhall.co.uk> wrote
>In article <2013051119380425289-igd@methyldemoncouk>,
> Ian DALGLEISH <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.183/19.255
>>>> Incidentally, surely that 'kbps' should be 'Mbps' ?
>>> Is it manufactured in France? My guess is that the full stop
>>>would be a
>>> comma using normal UK/US numerical conventions..
>>
>>It's very confusing, either way !
>>To me a "." means a decimal point so 6.000 is six not six thousand
>>!!
>
>But in France - and I think most European countries - the meanings of
>the comma and the full stop are reversed, so that 6.000 would be six
>thousand and 6,000 would be six. Unless I imagined it?
No, it is thus - but I'm less sure about larger numbers.
> Ian DALGLEISH <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [ kbps/kbps] 1.183/19.255
>>>> Incidentally, surely that 'kbps' should be 'Mbps' ?
>>> Is it manufactured in France? My guess is that the full stop
>>>would be a
>>> comma using normal UK/US numerical conventions..
>>
>>It's very confusing, either way !
>>To me a "." means a decimal point so 6.000 is six not six thousand
>>!!
>
>But in France - and I think most European countries - the meanings of
>the comma and the full stop are reversed, so that 6.000 would be six
>thousand and 6,000 would be six. Unless I imagined it?
6 German thousands are 6.000
6 German millions may be 6,000.000 or 6.000.000 - I think one is correct
and the other wrong but don't know which.
--
Andy Taylor [Editor, Austrian Philatelic Society].
Visit <URL:http://www.austrianphilately.com>
Peter Hill
May 14, 2013, 2:00:12 PM5/14/13
to
Or why bits of the A380 were longer than the wiring loom.
--
Peter Hill
replace nospam with domain host name to reply
Dr J R Stockton
May 14, 2013, 12:44:14 PM5/14/13
to
In demon.service message <a070p8d50u319lhio...@4ax.com>,
Sun, 12 May 2013 23:54:04, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> posted:
>If it didn't look coppery then its probably been damp and become
>oxidised.
Given 32 years for it to happen, I do not think that copper needs
particular dampness (by UK in-property but not in-residence standards)
to become visibly blackish.
--
(c) John Stockton, near London. Mail ?.?.Stoc...@physics.org
Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, and links.
Sun, 12 May 2013 23:54:04, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> posted:
>If it didn't look coppery then its probably been damp and become
>oxidised.
particular dampness (by UK in-property but not in-residence standards)
to become visibly blackish.
--
(c) John Stockton, near London. Mail ?.?.Stoc...@physics.org
Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, and links.
Charles Ellson
May 14, 2013, 10:52:16 PM5/14/13
to
On Tue, 14 May 2013 17:44:14 +0100, Dr J R Stockton
<repl...@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>In demon.service message <a070p8d50u319lhio...@4ax.com>,
>Sun, 12 May 2013 23:54:04, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> posted:
>
>>If it didn't look coppery then its probably been damp and become
>>oxidised.
>
>Given 32 years for it to happen, I do not think that copper needs
>particular dampness (by UK in-property but not in-residence standards)
>to become visibly blackish.
>
32 hours rather than 32 years for the type of fault I'm referring to.
<repl...@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>In demon.service message <a070p8d50u319lhio...@4ax.com>,
>Sun, 12 May 2013 23:54:04, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> posted:
>
>>If it didn't look coppery then its probably been damp and become
>>oxidised.
>
>Given 32 years for it to happen, I do not think that copper needs
>particular dampness (by UK in-property but not in-residence standards)
>to become visibly blackish.
>
Roy Brown
May 15, 2013, 3:51:11 PM5/15/13
to
In message <NYukt.76481$0F7....@fx27.fr7>, Peter Hill
<peter....@skyshack.demon.co.uk> writing at 19:00:12 in his/her
local time opines:-
>And we wonder why
other using Catia 6, and them being not as compatible as one might hope.
And the bits of the A380 were the right length (always a good thing when
building airframes). It was the wiring loom that was too short.
--
Roy Brown 'Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be
Kelmscott Ltd useful, or believe to be beautiful' William Morris
<peter....@skyshack.demon.co.uk> writing at 19:00:12 in his/her
local time opines:-
>And we wonder why
> bits of the A380 were longer than the wiring loom.
That wasn't a language issue. That was one team using Catia 5 and the
other using Catia 6, and them being not as compatible as one might hope.
And the bits of the A380 were the right length (always a good thing when
building airframes). It was the wiring loom that was too short.
--
Roy Brown 'Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be
Kelmscott Ltd useful, or believe to be beautiful' William Morris
Roy Brown
May 15, 2013, 3:54:29 PM5/15/13
to
In message <y5xJ3LSl...@nospam.at.my.choice.of.UID.invalid>, Jim
Crowther <Don't_bo...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> writing at 11:20:21
I can, and it's the same in Excel. I found this out at the inception of
a big project that L'Oreal had planned, until they found it wasn't worth
it....
Crowther <Don't_bo...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> writing at 11:20:21
in his/her local time opines:-
a big project that L'Oreal had planned, until they found it wasn't worth
it....
Peter Ceresole
May 15, 2013, 6:38:02 PM5/15/13
to
Roy Brown <Roy_now_fre...@acanthus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> And the bits of the A380 were the right length (always a good thing when
> building airframes). It was the wiring loom that was too short.
The main problem they had (still have) with the airframe is that they
> And the bits of the A380 were the right length (always a good thing when
> building airframes). It was the wiring loom that was too short.
specified the wrong allow for brackets that stitch the wing skins to
stringers, and they have started to crack. They are going to have to
change them all out eventually, and it will cost them hundreds of
millions of dollars to do.
Mind you, fingerpainting compared to the problems Boeing have had with
the 787, where they've had to invent a whole new manufacturing process
involving extensive subcontractors and tricky new composite structures,
plus building an 'all-electric ship'- hence their recent battery
problems. In fact their multi-year delays on the 787 gave a whole new
life to Airbus's A330. Being pioneers, Boeing have been there before
with the B29, also an electric ship, and with turbocharger problems.
Aeroplanes are tricky beasts.
--
Peter
Ian DALGLEISH
May 17, 2013, 1:15:33 PM5/17/13
to
I think we need to get back to the main issue raised by Chris Marriott.
His download speeds were dropping dramatically in the evening.
The same thing was happening to me: 16-17 Mbps during the early hours
of the morning then falling away to 4-5 Mbps during the rest of the day.
In both our cases, this is a RECENT phenomenon - for at least 7 weeks
after my upgrade to ADSL2+ on 5 March my download speeds remained
constant at 16-17 Mbps 24/7.
I've raised the issue with Demon Business Support and they are now
telling me that "engineers have now identified the root cause of the
issue and are currently working with a 3rd party supplier to schedule
the works for a permanent fix."
I'd be interested to know if anyone, apart from Chris and I, is having
similar problems with their download speeds between about 1000 and
midnight.
Ian.
His download speeds were dropping dramatically in the evening.
The same thing was happening to me: 16-17 Mbps during the early hours
of the morning then falling away to 4-5 Mbps during the rest of the day.
In both our cases, this is a RECENT phenomenon - for at least 7 weeks
after my upgrade to ADSL2+ on 5 March my download speeds remained
constant at 16-17 Mbps 24/7.
I've raised the issue with Demon Business Support and they are now
telling me that "engineers have now identified the root cause of the
issue and are currently working with a 3rd party supplier to schedule
the works for a permanent fix."
I'd be interested to know if anyone, apart from Chris and I, is having
similar problems with their download speeds between about 1000 and
midnight.
Ian.
Martin Brown
May 18, 2013, 3:28:34 AM5/18/13
to
On 17/05/2013 18:15, Ian DALGLEISH wrote:
> I think we need to get back to the main issue raised by Chris Marriott.
> His download speeds were dropping dramatically in the evening.
> The same thing was happening to me: 16-17 Mbps during the early hours of
> the morning then falling away to 4-5 Mbps during the rest of the day.
> In both our cases, this is a RECENT phenomenon - for at least 7 weeks
> after my upgrade to ADSL2+ on 5 March my download speeds remained
> constant at 16-17 Mbps 24/7.
> I've raised the issue with Demon Business Support and they are now
> telling me that "engineers have now identified the root cause of the
> issue and are currently working with a 3rd party supplier to schedule
> the works for a permanent fix."
>
> I'd be interested to know if anyone, apart from Chris and I, is having
> similar problems with their download speeds between about 1000 and
> midnight.
That has to be local traffic contention issues. You neighbours are all
> I think we need to get back to the main issue raised by Chris Marriott.
> His download speeds were dropping dramatically in the evening.
> The same thing was happening to me: 16-17 Mbps during the early hours of
> the morning then falling away to 4-5 Mbps during the rest of the day.
> In both our cases, this is a RECENT phenomenon - for at least 7 weeks
> after my upgrade to ADSL2+ on 5 March my download speeds remained
> constant at 16-17 Mbps 24/7.
> I've raised the issue with Demon Business Support and they are now
> telling me that "engineers have now identified the root cause of the
> issue and are currently working with a 3rd party supplier to schedule
> the works for a permanent fix."
>
> I'd be interested to know if anyone, apart from Chris and I, is having
> similar problems with their download speeds between about 1000 and
> midnight.
streaming on demand HD TV channels during the affected period.
Can you detect any changes in ping times during the slowdown?
Ditto for CRC errors and error seconds?
BTW 4-5Mbps is my max sync rate, but I never get that download speed :(
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
da...@ritter.demon.co.uk
May 18, 2013, 5:01:43 AM5/18/13
to
On Saturday, May 18, 2013 8:28:34 AM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
> That has to be local traffic contention issues. You neighbours are all
>
> streaming on demand HD TV channels during the affected period.
If it is local contention would the upstream not also be reduced to some extent due to ACKs instead of staying the same?
> That has to be local traffic contention issues. You neighbours are all
>
> streaming on demand HD TV channels during the affected period.
> Can you detect any changes in ping times during the slowdown?
Martin Brown
May 18, 2013, 5:13:47 AM5/18/13
to
On 18/05/2013 10:01, da...@ritter.demon.co.uk wrote:
> On Saturday, May 18, 2013 8:28:34 AM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
>
>> That has to be local traffic contention issues. You neighbours are all
>>
>> streaming on demand HD TV channels during the affected period.
>
> If it is local contention would the upstream not also be reduced to some extent due to ACKs instead of staying the same?
Probably not easily detectable since upload speed is lower the short
> On Saturday, May 18, 2013 8:28:34 AM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
>
>> That has to be local traffic contention issues. You neighbours are all
>>
>> streaming on demand HD TV channels during the affected period.
>
> If it is local contention would the upstream not also be reduced to some extent due to ACKs instead of staying the same?
ACKs packet speed won't show much provided the effective bandwidth down
is similar to the maximum uplink speed. Maybe a few % down at most.
>> Can you detect any changes in ping times during the slowdown?
>
> Ping is the same in my case, again and I may be wrong, I would expect contention to result in a much higher ping.
with a much larger positive bias if you do a longish series of them.
Somewhere along the line is a pipe that is too thin for the flow and it
is in effect becoming turbulent during the busy early evening period.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
da...@ritter.demon.co.uk
May 18, 2013, 7:03:32 AM5/18/13
to
On Saturday, May 18, 2013 8:28:34 AM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
> That has to be local traffic contention issues. You neighbours are all
Local contention suddenly appearing at the same time on different exchanges with the exact same pattern for the performance drop?
Local contention in my case when before a few weeks ago the connection was rock solid with actual download speeds (not sync) of 14-16Mbps ? All of a sudden a few weeks ago everyone else on the same exchange must have decided to start streaming HD video or the drop would have been gradual as the contention built up.
Local contention when in one of the cases mentioned here their other line to the same exchange is absolutely fine?
Demon have either screwed up somewhere or Vodaphone (odd it starts happening when the Vodaphone tendrils start appearing) are playing games reducing the quality of service to unacceptable levels knowing they can just play the contention and "up to" cards.
Ian DALGLEISH
May 18, 2013, 7:22:04 AM5/18/13
to
Can you detect any changes in ping times during the slowdown?
As you will see from the data I uploaded below, there's very little change in latency or upload speeds:
Ditto for CRC errors and error seconds?
Don't know what that means.
Martin Brown
May 18, 2013, 1:03:39 PM5/18/13
to
On 18/05/2013 12:22, Ian DALGLEISH wrote:
> Can you detect any changes in ping times during the slowdown?
>
> As you will see from the data I uploaded below, there's very little
> change in latency or upload speeds:
>
> http://www.iandalgleish.co.uk/speedGraph.htm
>
>
> Ditto for CRC errors and error seconds?
>
> Don't know what that means.
Somewhere in the advanced section of the routers menu system there
> Can you detect any changes in ping times during the slowdown?
>
> As you will see from the data I uploaded below, there's very little
> change in latency or upload speeds:
>
> http://www.iandalgleish.co.uk/speedGraph.htm
>
>
> Ditto for CRC errors and error seconds?
>
> Don't know what that means.
should be some quality of service statistics that might shed light on
any degradation of signal to noise that is occurring.
Just trying to look for evidence that might explain the observed facts.
ChrisM will know where to look when he comes back from holiday.
( I don't know what is possible on Demon's routers)
I have known speed deteriorate when the sun goes down. See the thread
diurnal variation of ADSL on uk.telecom.broadband I started a while ago.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Ian DALGLEISH
May 18, 2013, 2:48:12 PM5/18/13
to
I have some more info. from Demon Business Support:
Fixing the problem requires planned engineering work at network nodes
which will be completed soon.
They're having a meeting on Monday morning, 20 May, in order to
"expedite the necessary work".
Fixing the problem requires planned engineering work at network nodes
which will be completed soon.
They're having a meeting on Monday morning, 20 May, in order to
"expedite the necessary work".
Peter Hill
May 19, 2013, 5:09:22 AM5/19/13
to
On 18/05/2013 19:20, Ian DALGLEISH wrote:
>
> Ditto for CRC errors and error seconds?
>
>
> Don't know what that means.
>
>
> Somewhere in the advanced section of the routers menu system there
> should be some quality of service statistics that might shed light on
> any degradation of signal to noise that is occurring.
>
> I found it.
>
> Ditto for CRC errors and error seconds?
>
>
> Don't know what that means.
>
>
> Somewhere in the advanced section of the routers menu system there
> should be some quality of service statistics that might shed light on
> any degradation of signal to noise that is occurring.
>
>
> This is what it says, though I haven't a clue what it all means:
>
> *DSL Connection*
>
> *Link Information*
>
> Uptime: 3 days, 2:09:13
> DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.199 / 19.219
> Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 557,18 / 1,99
> Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11,9 / 0,0
> Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,1 / 22,5
> SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,3 / 3,1
> System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
> Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
> Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
> Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
> Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
> Loss of Link (Remote): -
> Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1.879 / 0
> FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
> CRC Errors (Up/Down): 233 / 2.097
> HEC Errors (Up/Down): 1.119 / 11.450
>
It means you have a rock solid connection. Whereas I'm on a 3.5-4 mile
length of dry string (or maybe a frayedknot). And that's after having it
"fixed".
DSL Connection
Link Information
Uptime: 3 days, 5:09:51
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.132 / 7.382
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 620,86 / 1,38
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,8 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 23,8 / 44,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 4,8 / 0,9
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 813 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 97 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 2.882 / 30
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 5.761 / 49.405.633
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 966 / 3.291
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 977 / 80.937
Ian DALGLEISH
May 19, 2013, 10:47:50 AM5/19/13
to
Thanks for the reassurance, Peter.
Demon's engineers are having a meeting tomorrow (Monday) to discuss this issue - we'll see what happens once they start trying to fix it.�
My download speed at the moment (Sunday at 1545) is 14.98 Mbps. Weekend speeds tend to be good most of the day.
Ian
Ian DALGLEISH
May 20, 2013, 12:08:31 PM5/20/13
to
Ian DALGLEISH
May 20, 2013, 12:11:43 PM5/20/13
to
I have just received this email from Demon Business Support:
+++++++++++++++++++
Following on from our previous communications, we can confirm that the actions required to implement a permanent fix have been scheduled for 23:00 20/05/2013. Due to the nature of the work, it will need to be performed under controlled conditions as planned engineering works. Following completion of the planned works there will be a period of extended monitoring to ensure the stability of customers services. A further update will be provided after 11:00 21/05/2013.�
++++++++++++++++++++++
Ironically, my download speed has returned to normal today (Monday).
It has been a steady 16.8 Mbps all day !!
Typical !!
John Hall
May 20, 2013, 1:28:33 PM5/20/13
to
In article <2013052017114326087-igd@methyldemoncouk>,
actually carried out from 23:00 on the 19th?
--
John Hall
"Sir, I have found you an argument;
but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)
Ian DALGLEISH <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>I have just received this email from Demon Business Support:
>
>
>+++++++++++++++++++
>
>Following on from our previous communications, we can confirm
>that the actions required to implement a permanent fix have been
>scheduled for 23:00 20/05/2013. Due to the nature of the work, it
>will need to be performed under controlled conditions as planned
>engineering works. Following completion of the planned works
>there will be a period of extended monitoring to ensure the
>stability of customers services. A further update will be provided
>after 11:00 21/05/2013.�
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>Ironically, my download speed has returned to normal today
>(Monday).
>
>It has been a steady 16.8 Mbps all day !!
>
>Typical !!
Could Demon Business Support have got the date wrong, and the work was
>
>I have just received this email from Demon Business Support:
>
>
>+++++++++++++++++++
>
>Following on from our previous communications, we can confirm
>that the actions required to implement a permanent fix have been
>scheduled for 23:00 20/05/2013. Due to the nature of the work, it
>will need to be performed under controlled conditions as planned
>engineering works. Following completion of the planned works
>there will be a period of extended monitoring to ensure the
>stability of customers services. A further update will be provided
>after 11:00 21/05/2013.�
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>Ironically, my download speed has returned to normal today
>(Monday).
>
>It has been a steady 16.8 Mbps all day !!
>
>Typical !!
actually carried out from 23:00 on the 19th?
--
John Hall
"Sir, I have found you an argument;
but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)
R. Kennedy McEwen
May 21, 2013, 3:26:06 AM5/21/13
to
In article <2013052017114326087-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>I have just received this email from Demon Business Support:
>
>
>+++++++++++++++++++
>
>Following on from our previous communications, we can confirm that the
>actions required to implement a permanent fix have been scheduled for
>23:00 20/05/2013. Due to the nature of the work, it will need to be
>performed under controlled conditions as planned engineering works.
>Following completion of the planned works there will be a period of
>extended monitoring to ensure the stability of customers services. A
>further update will be provided after 11:00 21/05/2013.�
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>Ironically, my download speed has returned to normal today (Monday).
>It has been a steady 16.8 Mbps all day !!
>
Interesting. I have had the same apparent daytime throttling/contention
>
>
>+++++++++++++++++++
>
>Following on from our previous communications, we can confirm that the
>actions required to implement a permanent fix have been scheduled for
>23:00 20/05/2013. Due to the nature of the work, it will need to be
>performed under controlled conditions as planned engineering works.
>Following completion of the planned works there will be a period of
>extended monitoring to ensure the stability of customers services. A
>further update will be provided after 11:00 21/05/2013.�
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>Ironically, my download speed has returned to normal today (Monday).
>It has been a steady 16.8 Mbps all day !!
>
issue for the past 2 weeks or so, even at weekends, whilst in the wee
small hours speeds have been in excess of 17.5Mbps.
My logs show that the line went down at 14:18hrs yesterday then came
back up around 14:37hrs, after which the downspeed in the afternoon and
evening was consistently in excess of 15Mbps. Hopefully this continues
and the problem is fixed. :-)
--
Kennedy
John Hall
May 21, 2013, 4:49:47 AM5/21/13
to
In article <2013052017114326087-igd@methyldemoncouk>,
and 6am, when presumably the load on the network would have been
lightest. It didn't have that noticeable an effect on my connection, but
was very evident on the graphs of pings performed to my address by
f8lure. (If you don't know what f8lure is then see
http://fruk.net/index.php?fruk=f8lure )
This problem too seems to have been fixed (touch wood) at some point
within the last 24 hours or so, so I wonder if it could have been
linked.
Ian DALGLEISH <i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>I have just received this email from Demon Business Support:
>
>
>+++++++++++++++++++
>
>Following on from our previous communications, we can confirm
>that the actions required to implement a permanent fix have been
>scheduled for 23:00 20/05/2013. Due to the nature of the work, it
>will need to be performed under controlled conditions as planned
>engineering works. Following completion of the planned works
>there will be a period of extended monitoring to ensure the
>stability of customers services. A further update will be provided
>after 11:00 21/05/2013.�
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>Ironically, my download speed has returned to normal today
>(Monday).
>
>It has been a steady 16.8 Mbps all day !!
>
>Typical !!
I was seeing a high level of packet loss except between the hours of 2am
>
>I have just received this email from Demon Business Support:
>
>
>+++++++++++++++++++
>
>Following on from our previous communications, we can confirm
>that the actions required to implement a permanent fix have been
>scheduled for 23:00 20/05/2013. Due to the nature of the work, it
>will need to be performed under controlled conditions as planned
>engineering works. Following completion of the planned works
>there will be a period of extended monitoring to ensure the
>stability of customers services. A further update will be provided
>after 11:00 21/05/2013.�
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>Ironically, my download speed has returned to normal today
>(Monday).
>
>It has been a steady 16.8 Mbps all day !!
>
>Typical !!
and 6am, when presumably the load on the network would have been
lightest. It didn't have that noticeable an effect on my connection, but
was very evident on the graphs of pings performed to my address by
f8lure. (If you don't know what f8lure is then see
http://fruk.net/index.php?fruk=f8lure )
This problem too seems to have been fixed (touch wood) at some point
within the last 24 hours or so, so I wonder if it could have been
linked.
Ian
May 21, 2013, 9:03:09 AM5/21/13
to
In message <pDP6uBEr...@jhall.demon.co.uk.invalid>, John Hall
<nospam...@jhall.co.uk> writes
There this, for a quick check, from the Speedtest team,
http://www.pingtest.net/
--
Ian
<nospam...@jhall.co.uk> writes
http://www.pingtest.net/
--
Ian
Les
May 21, 2013, 9:20:07 AM5/21/13
to
In message <uu6VS5IO...@kennedym.demon.co.uk>, R. Kennedy McEwen
<Me...@kennedym.demon.co.uk> writes
I've been watching this thread as I have been suffering the same
slowdown in speed over the past two or three weeks.
No unusual activity on my connection yesterday or through the
night but checking a few minutes ago shows the download speed
is much better, but not yet back to what it was before.
--
Les
<Me...@kennedym.demon.co.uk> writes
slowdown in speed over the past two or three weeks.
No unusual activity on my connection yesterday or through the
night but checking a few minutes ago shows the download speed
is much better, but not yet back to what it was before.
--
Les
Ian DALGLEISH
May 21, 2013, 12:47:43 PM5/21/13
to
I've been watching this thread as I have been suffering the same
slowdown in speed over the past two or three weeks.
My download speed today (Tuesday) has been a consistent 16.5 Mbps ALL DAY so it looks like the problem has been solved. Demon Business Support have not contacted me yet. Chris Marriott should be pleased when he gets back from his holiday :-)
Ian
R. Kennedy McEwen
May 23, 2013, 11:34:53 AM5/23/13
to
In article <2013052117474315215-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes
8:30pm on Wed 22nd May and the download speed has fallen to a peak of
1.7Mbps again, often less than 1Mbps!
7am Thurs 23rd May achieves 17.5Mbps consistently. But then 4:30pm on
Thurs 23rd May and it is back to less than 1.5Mbps. This "upgrade" to
ADSL2 seems to be about as useful as a chocolate teapot!
With actual performance during the peak periods lower than the basic
ADSL facility I had before, I question whether the upgrade to Demon's
Business Unlimited service meets the basic requirements of "fitness for
purpose" as required by SOGA.
--
Kennedy
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>I've been watching this thread as I have been suffering the same
>slowdown in speed over the past two or three weeks.
>
>My download speed today (Tuesday) has been a consistent 16.5 Mbps ALL
>DAY so it looks like the problem has been solved. Demon Business
>Support have not contacted me yet. Chris Marriott should be pleased
>when he gets back from his holiday :-)
>
Nah, its broken again.
>slowdown in speed over the past two or three weeks.
>
>My download speed today (Tuesday) has been a consistent 16.5 Mbps ALL
>DAY so it looks like the problem has been solved. Demon Business
>Support have not contacted me yet. Chris Marriott should be pleased
>when he gets back from his holiday :-)
>
8:30pm on Wed 22nd May and the download speed has fallen to a peak of
1.7Mbps again, often less than 1Mbps!
7am Thurs 23rd May achieves 17.5Mbps consistently. But then 4:30pm on
Thurs 23rd May and it is back to less than 1.5Mbps. This "upgrade" to
ADSL2 seems to be about as useful as a chocolate teapot!
With actual performance during the peak periods lower than the basic
ADSL facility I had before, I question whether the upgrade to Demon's
Business Unlimited service meets the basic requirements of "fitness for
purpose" as required by SOGA.
--
Kennedy
Ian DALGLEISH
May 23, 2013, 11:54:59 AM5/23/13
to
Nah, its broken again
Agreed !
It was a steady 16-17 Mbps from Monday 20 May to Wednesday 22 May incl.
Today Thursday 23 May .......... 7.55 Mbps at 1620 !!!
Very disappointing.
I've informed Demon Business Support.
Is this contention or is there a problem which Demon can fix ?
Ian
--
Les
May 23, 2013, 12:11:58 PM5/23/13
to
In message <2013052316545959104-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>
awful lot of traffic has suddenly appeared on different exchanges.
Download speed was slightly better here than with plain ADSL for
a month or so after the upgrade to ADSL2+ then took a nose dive
and hasn't really recovered since.
--
Les
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>
>Nah, its broken again
>
>
>Agreed !
>
>It was a steady 16-17 Mbps from Monday 20 May to Wednesday
>22 May incl.
>
>Today Thursday 23 May .......... 7.55 Mbps at 1620 !!!
>
>Very disappointing.
>
>
>I've informed Demon Business Support.
>
>Is this contention or is there a problem which Demon can fix ?
>
Less than half the normal speed here today, if it's contention an
>
>
>Agreed !
>
>It was a steady 16-17 Mbps from Monday 20 May to Wednesday
>22 May incl.
>
>Today Thursday 23 May .......... 7.55 Mbps at 1620 !!!
>
>Very disappointing.
>
>
>I've informed Demon Business Support.
>
>Is this contention or is there a problem which Demon can fix ?
>
awful lot of traffic has suddenly appeared on different exchanges.
Download speed was slightly better here than with plain ADSL for
a month or so after the upgrade to ADSL2+ then took a nose dive
and hasn't really recovered since.
--
Les
Ian DALGLEISH
May 28, 2013, 10:53:58 AM5/28/13
to
>> Nah, its broken again
Part of an email I received from Demon Business Support yesterday
(Monday 27 May):
"Following the recent reports of slow speeds, further configuration
changes have been made to the network in order to improve the service
for a small number of customers who were still experiencing a degraded
service. Customers are advised to re boot their equipment and perform a
retest to confirm full restoration of their services. Should there
still be a degradation of service present, please contact our helpdesk
in order that investigations can continue."
My download speeds have definitely improved over the past few days.
Apart from a drop to 12.45 Mbps today (Tuesday 28 May) at 1300, my
download speeds have been between 16 and 17 Mbps all day.
Does anyone else notice an improvement?
Chris Marriott - you started this thread. How are your own speeds now?
Ian
Part of an email I received from Demon Business Support yesterday
(Monday 27 May):
"Following the recent reports of slow speeds, further configuration
changes have been made to the network in order to improve the service
for a small number of customers who were still experiencing a degraded
service. Customers are advised to re boot their equipment and perform a
retest to confirm full restoration of their services. Should there
still be a degradation of service present, please contact our helpdesk
in order that investigations can continue."
My download speeds have definitely improved over the past few days.
Apart from a drop to 12.45 Mbps today (Tuesday 28 May) at 1300, my
download speeds have been between 16 and 17 Mbps all day.
Does anyone else notice an improvement?
Chris Marriott - you started this thread. How are your own speeds now?
Ian
Les
May 28, 2013, 11:11:14 AM5/28/13
to
In message <2013052815535863252-igd@methyldemoncouk>, Ian DALGLEISH
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes
the download speeds I first got when I upgraded to ASDL 2+,
fingers crossed it stays that way.
--
Les
<i...@methyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>>> Nah, its broken again
>
>Part of an email I received from Demon Business Support yesterday
>(Monday 27 May):
>
>"Following the recent reports of slow speeds, further configuration
>changes have been made to the network in order to improve the service
>for a small number of customers who were still experiencing a degraded
>service. Customers are advised to re boot their equipment and perform a
>retest to confirm full restoration of their services. Should there
>still be a degradation of service present, please contact our helpdesk
>in order that investigations can continue."
>
>My download speeds have definitely improved over the past few days.
>Apart from a drop to 12.45 Mbps today (Tuesday 28 May) at 1300, my
>download speeds have been between 16 and 17 Mbps all day.
>
>Does anyone else notice an improvement?
Friday or Saturday ( I didn't check on Friday) mine came back up to
>
>Part of an email I received from Demon Business Support yesterday
>(Monday 27 May):
>
>"Following the recent reports of slow speeds, further configuration
>changes have been made to the network in order to improve the service
>for a small number of customers who were still experiencing a degraded
>service. Customers are advised to re boot their equipment and perform a
>retest to confirm full restoration of their services. Should there
>still be a degradation of service present, please contact our helpdesk
>in order that investigations can continue."
>
>My download speeds have definitely improved over the past few days.
>Apart from a drop to 12.45 Mbps today (Tuesday 28 May) at 1300, my
>download speeds have been between 16 and 17 Mbps all day.
>
>Does anyone else notice an improvement?
the download speeds I first got when I upgraded to ASDL 2+,
fingers crossed it stays that way.
--
Les
Ian DALGLEISH
Jun 1, 2013, 12:25:04 PM6/1/13
to
> I'm going away for a couple of weeks on Monday, but after I get back I
> too will start to serious chase this with Demon.
How is your download speed now, Chris ?
Mine has returned to normal (16-17 Mbps all day).
Demon's engineers seem to have fixed it.
Business Support have kept in contact by email and phone throughout.
> too will start to serious chase this with Demon.
How is your download speed now, Chris ?
Mine has returned to normal (16-17 Mbps all day).
Demon's engineers seem to have fixed it.
Business Support have kept in contact by email and phone throughout.
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