Yahoo groups mail bouncing
the Squonk
Anyone else had recent trouble with mails from Yahoo groups being
bounced by Demon? I had to re-activate the account.
The funny thing is, I am now getting mails from one group, but not from
any of the others. Seems odd, that.
TTFN
--
ajb
nos...@nospam.invalid
<Squ...@sphynx.demon.co.uk> writes
I had spam filtering enabled so put it down to something going
wrong with that. Did you ? Or is it an issue elsewhere ?
A complete PITA especially as I've now got to get a yahoo id
to join the groups again - they were originally hosted elsewhere.
Cheers
--
Paul
AC
>bounced by Demon? I had to re-activate the account.
yes
>
>The funny thing is, I am now getting mails from one group, but not from
>any of the others. Seems odd, that.
same also
(google on the subject should give more details)
--
AC
the Squonk
>In article <jmubk09l07088nkft...@4ax.com>, the Squonk
><Squ...@sphynx.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Hello
>>
>>Anyone else had recent trouble with mails from Yahoo groups being
>>bounced by Demon? I had to re-activate the account.
>>
>>The funny thing is, I am now getting mails from one group, but not from
>>any of the others. Seems odd, that.
>>
>>TTFN
>>
>I've had yahoo groups bounced too.
>I had spam filtering enabled so put it down to something going
>wrong with that. Did you ? Or is it an issue elsewhere ?
>
It has got a little more complicated - I've had 550 hard bounces from
one group, soft bounces from another, and mails apparently eaten by the
black hole from another, and the others seem un-affected. I have the
Brightmail filters turned on.
>A complete PITA
Yes. It is. As a temporary measure, I've transferred the troublesome
groups to another address of mine which uses SpamAssassin, and had no
trouble there...
>
>Cheers
ditto
--
ajb
pete lynch
This is a frequent occurrence for me. Most of the time the
bounces are caused when someone spams a group and demon's keyword
filter trips. (It would be nice if demon could just drop rather than
bounce mails as most of them have forged From addresses anyhow,
sending them back to some poor sucker serves no purpose).
However, in demon's defence - a phrase I've _never_ used before -
I have had Yahoo report a bounced messge ID that the egroup hasn't
reached yet. I.e. the bounced message was number 6000 when the highest
numbered message in the said group was 5000.
I think their reporting is not all it could be, too.
Pete
--
..........................................................................
. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................
Richard Clayton
<et...@beowulf.demon.co.uk> writes
>Most of the time the
>bounces are caused when someone spams a group and demon's keyword
>filter trips. (It would be nice if demon could just drop rather than
>bounce mails as most of them have forged From addresses anyhow,
>sending them back to some poor sucker serves no purpose).
Demon doesn't "bounce mails" ... if they are detected to be "spam" by
the Brightmail filter then the mail server fails to accept them. See for
example:
http://www.demon.net/helpdesk/faq/spamfiltering.shtml#happens
So if there is a bounce message generated, then it will be generated at
Yahoo! and you have to ask why Yahoo! accepted them in the first place.
You could also ask why, when the world is rapidly getting cluttered up
with anti-spam and anti-virus systems Yahoo! treats failures to deliver
individual items as being such a heinous crime :(
--
richard writing to inform and not as company policy
"Assembly of Japanese bicycle require great peace of mind" quoted in ZAMM
David G. Bell
ric...@highwayman.com "Richard Clayton" wrote:
> In article <slrncknqc...@beowulf.demon.co.uk>, pete lynch
> <et...@beowulf.demon.co.uk> writes
>
> >Most of the time the
> >bounces are caused when someone spams a group and demon's keyword
> >filter trips. (It would be nice if demon could just drop rather than
> >bounce mails as most of them have forged From addresses anyhow,
> >sending them back to some poor sucker serves no purpose).
>
> Demon doesn't "bounce mails" ... if they are detected to be "spam" by
> the Brightmail filter then the mail server fails to accept them. See for
> example:
>
> http://www.demon.net/helpdesk/faq/spamfiltering.shtml#happens
>
> So if there is a bounce message generated, then it will be generated at
> Yahoo! and you have to ask why Yahoo! accepted them in the first place.
>
> You could also ask why, when the world is rapidly getting cluttered up
> with anti-spam and anti-virus systems Yahoo! treats failures to deliver
> individual items as being such a heinous crime :(
Thanks for the hair-splitting on who does what. Pretty clearly,
whatever you call it, it is Demon who trigger the process, not Yahoo!
As for why Yahoo! reacts in the way it does, I would suppose they get
more than one failure to deliver. Some of their mailing lists may have
many Demon customers reading. More, it is in the nature of dial-up that
a customer might have many messages queuing for delivery, or being
rejected, before they get to read their mail.
I don't think Demon's position is indefensible, but is isn't all
Yahoo!'s fault.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."
Richard Clayton
<db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> writes
>Thanks for the hair-splitting on who does what. Pretty clearly,
>whatever you call it, it is Demon who trigger the process, not Yahoo!
no, it is the spammer :(
the Squonk
("David G. Bell") wrote:
>On Saturday, in article <snII$FBABB...@highwayman.com>
> ric...@highwayman.com "Richard Clayton" wrote:
>
>> In article <slrncknqc...@beowulf.demon.co.uk>, pete lynch
>> <et...@beowulf.demon.co.uk> writes
>>
>> >Most of the time the
>> >bounces are caused when someone spams a group and demon's keyword
>> >filter trips. (It would be nice if demon could just drop rather than
>> >bounce mails as most of them have forged From addresses anyhow,
>> >sending them back to some poor sucker serves no purpose).
>>
>> Demon doesn't "bounce mails" ... if they are detected to be "spam" by
>> the Brightmail filter then the mail server fails to accept them. See for
>> example:
>>
>> http://www.demon.net/helpdesk/faq/spamfiltering.shtml#happens
>>
>> So if there is a bounce message generated, then it will be generated at
>> Yahoo! and you have to ask why Yahoo! accepted them in the first place.
>>
>> You could also ask why, when the world is rapidly getting cluttered up
>> with anti-spam and anti-virus systems Yahoo! treats failures to deliver
>> individual items as being such a heinous crime :(
>
>Thanks for the hair-splitting on who does what. Pretty clearly,
>whatever you call it, it is Demon who trigger the process, not Yahoo!
>
>
I suppose it is a question of definition.....
The most troublesome aspect was the way some perfectly valid and normal
posts to one of my groups, nothing like any kind of spam, triggered
Yahoo to cut off my account with the comment
Hard Bounce.
"Remote host said: 550 Blocked by recipient's spam filter options. If
message is legitimate,
please forward a copy to r...@demon.net for investigation. [BODY]"
[Such an unfortunate name, "Yahoo", from the English point of view....]
I have received a helpful reply from rbl
TTFN
--
ajb
Malcolm Muir
[snip]
>I suppose it is a question of definition.....
>
>The most troublesome aspect was the way some perfectly valid and normal
>posts to one of my groups, nothing like any kind of spam, triggered
>Yahoo to cut off my account with the comment
>
>Hard Bounce.
Poor choice of wording there. It was not a bounce, but the '550' reply
from our mail servers when Yahoo tired to send the message to your
address. No actual bounce took place at Demon, only a refusal to
accept a message.
>"Remote host said: 550 Blocked by recipient's spam filter options. If
>message is legitimate,
>please forward a copy to r...@demon.net for investigation. [BODY]"
>
>[Such an unfortunate name, "Yahoo", from the English point of view....]
>
>I have received a helpful reply from rbl
All the investigations our abuse team have carried out (by joining
Yahoo groups that have been reported to be suffering this problem)
have show that the problem is legitimate filtering of spam being sent
via Yahoo. It is unfortunate that Yahoo drop a subscription on the
basis of a single legitimate rejection.
--
Malcolm S. Muir D e m o n
Sunderland 322 Regents Park Road
England London N3 2QQ
the Squonk
It is indeed.
But, in this case, my complaint is that my subscription was dropped on
rejections by Demon of perfectly valid and correct posts. One of them,
reported to rbl with group and message number, was even a message of my
own coming back to me. It is all in the group archive, so it can be
checked that it wasn't spam at all.
Thank you for the comments anyway
--
ajb
Stewart Robert Hinsley
<Squ...@sphynx.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>It is indeed.
>
>But, in this case, my complaint is that my subscription was dropped on
>rejections by Demon of perfectly valid and correct posts. One of them,
>reported to rbl with group and message number, was even a message of my
>own coming back to me. It is all in the group archive, so it can be
>checked that it wasn't spam at all.
>
>Thank you for the comments anyway
>
messages that I had received had been bounced) that the message # given
in the Yahoo bounce report is the message prior to the one that actually
bounced. Did you take this into account?
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
Network Abuse Team
<{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> writes
Are you certain that this is the case? If so, that is some very useful
info to know, thanks.
--
James Hoddinott email: ab...@demon.net
Network Abuse Team fax: 0870 051 9970
Demon Internet <URL:http://www.demon.net/helpdesk/aup/>
Adrian Simpson
Muir <mal...@demon.net> writes
>All the investigations our abuse team have carried out (by joining
>Yahoo groups that have been reported to be suffering this problem)
>have show that the problem is legitimate filtering of spam being sent
>via Yahoo. It is unfortunate that Yahoo drop a subscription on the
>basis of a single legitimate rejection.
>
I think I've had this problem with a group that I own (although not
recently). The group is on moderated sign up, so no spammers (I've
checked the messages on line). Is it possible that some of the ads that
yahoo add are also causing problems ?.
Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "news" with "adrian" and "nospam" with "ffoil"
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.
the Squonk
<{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
[....]
>I have deduced (after being confused by Yahoo apparently telling me that
>messages that I had received had been bounced) that the message # given
>in the Yahoo bounce report is the message prior to the one that actually
>bounced. Did you take this into account?
Thanks for the suggestion. I have seen no evidence that this is so in
this case, but even if it were, the same would apply in that a perfectly
valid post has received the "550" reply.
I have switched all my Yahoo groups to another ISP who uses
SpamAssassin, and for the moment have had no further trouble, but would
prefer to receive through Demon in the longer term.
Thanks to all for the useful comments and advice.
TTFN
--
ajb
Stewart Robert Hinsley
<ab...@demon.net> writes
>>I have deduced (after being confused by Yahoo apparently telling me that
>>messages that I had received had been bounced) that the message # given
>>in the Yahoo bounce report is the message prior to the one that actually
>>bounced. Did you take this into account?
>
>Are you certain that this is the case? If so, that is some very useful
>info to know, thanks.
Moderately so. The sample is about half-a-dozen cases, but in these
cases the following post was either spam, or contained a sig
incorporating a referal marketing advertisement; the latter could well
get caught by BrightMail because this, like other, referal marketing
schemes, may also have been distributed as spam. (Since the "offender"
changed his sig, I haven't had any bounces.) Since you no doubt have a
larger sample to work on, you should be able to test the hypothesis.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
Network Abuse Team
<{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> writes
Working with another customer yesterday, it does appear that Yahoo give
the message number of the mail before the one that was rejected. This
would explain why perfectly good mails seemed to be tagged as spam. It
also adds an additional layer of complexity I could do without :(