High UK charges for Domain registration and hosting?
Steve
Hi,
I've been looking in to registering a domain and hosting it with
a UK ISP however the charges seem to be rather high when compared
to the US. Including Demon.
For the UK it seems general charges are £100 for the domain
registration
And around £200 to do email and web forwarding per year.
Actual Nominet charges for domain registration are:
"Name requests are charged at £80+VAT which covers the first two
years after
which an annual renewal fee of
£40+VAT is charged.
Members of Nominet UK receive a
discounted rate in return for billing their
customers."
To register a '.com' name etc with Internic is 100 dollars, but
still seems to come under the £100 blanket domain registration
charged by a lot of ISPs.
Also is £200 pounds per year for hosting the domain a little
expensive if you already have an account with the ISP? A lot of
US hosting services etc seem to simply pass the cost of the
domain registration
and set up the correct DNS records to do mail and web forwarding
for free.
Is there any particular reason why it is more expensive in the
UK? Lots more admin required or something?
-Steve
Lee Davies
We started off with a homepages account and upgraded to commercial when the
Diva 10 package came out.
We paid £300 (ish) and got our domain registered, web forwarding, mail
forwarding, 10Mb commercial web space, our own cgi-bin and detailed log
files of all visits to our site.
Not a bad package. If we had stuck with our homepages account (£10pm) and
bought mail forwarding (£200pa) and web forwarding (£200), we would have
been £520 out of pocket over 12 months.
£300 almost seems reasonable... Almost.
Lee.
Steve wrote in message <34E95E79...@proph.demon.co.uk>...
Mark Booth
In article <34E95E79...@proph.demon.co.uk>, Steve
<st...@proph.demon.co.uk> writes
>I've been looking in to registering a domain and hosting it with
>a UK ISP however the charges seem to be rather high when compared
>to the US. Including Demon.
>For the UK it seems general charges are £100 for the domain
>registration
>And around £200 to do email and web forwarding per year.
Yes, I found this when I looked into it last year. The best people I
found were NetNames. They had higher up-front charges than some I found,
but they charged you the discounted annual local fee[1], and they didnt
charge you for email and web redirection. They also provided the most
prompt and helpful responses to my email.
[1] If you are a member of Nominet you get a discount. Similarly
submitting to InterNic in bulk gets a discount.
I have just had a look again:
1) Firstly I looked up the details for "oxim.co.uk" (I have been trying
to persuade the directors to register this domain for ages). NetNames
(www.netnames.co.uk) quoted 139pounds, ie 99pounds registration plus
40pounds for the first two years of Nominet fees, then 20pounds per year
Nominet fees after this.
That price is the fully inclusive, ie you get your domain name hosting,
email forwarding (mail for ma...@oxim.co.uk being sent to
ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk) and WebForwarding (ie redirect requests for
www.oxim.co.uk to www.oxim.demon.co.uk), all at no extra cost.
2) Then I looked up the costs of doing the same via NetBenefit
(www.domainnames.co.uk). They wanted 100pounds registration fee, and 2
years Nominet fees in advance (2x40, halved if paid on time, so that
works out the same), but wanted extra (15 pounds per month) to provide
per domain email forwarding. So thats 140 startup, plus 180quid
forwarding fee per year. There was no mention of WebForwarding. Their
web site also implied that if you resgistered for email forwarding along
with domain registration, the admin fee would be 40 pounds (instead of
100?). I assume that they provide domain hosting at no charge, but I
couldnt find anywhere saying so.
3) Finally I looked up 'www.names.co.uk', They wanted 85pounds
registration fee, discounted to 65pounds if paid promptly, and then
appeared to have nothing more to do with you, ie you pay your 2 years in
advance directly to Nominet, so no bulk/prompt payment discounts here ie
40pounds pa. They dont appear to host your domain name, but do say they
can help you transfer the DNS to your ISP (who wont charge you will they
*8'), or help you fins#d someone who will host it.
A lot of the registration companies I found before, seem not to be on
the net now.
Netnames also explained that Nominet may be dropping the cost of uk
domains to 15pounds per year soon, but had no dates for that. Netnames
were also the only ones that had any real info on the new generic Top
Level Domains (.nom, .firm, .web, etc.)
To be honest I cant see any reason for not going for NetNames. In fact
at their current price I think that I'm off to register my home domain,
its about time. *8')
>Actual Nominet charges for domain registration are:
>"Name requests are charged at £80+VAT which covers the first two
> years after which an annual renewal fee of £40+VAT is charged.
> Members of Nominet UK receive a discounted rate in return for
> billing their customers."
>To register a '.com' name etc with Internic is 100 dollars, but
>still seems to come under the £100 blanket domain registration
>charged by a lot of ISPs.
The problem is that I dont think that you can register directly (plus
you have to have a DNS server to host your domain details anyway), and
all of the companies I have found charge you these 'local' fees in
addition to their registration charge anyway. I presume that if you were
in they states you would be charges 100bucks (2 years internic) plus a
registration fee, otherwise how do the stateside registration companies
make any money.
>Also is £200 pounds per year for hosting the domain a little
>expensive if you already have an account with the ISP? A lot of
>US hosting services etc seem to simply pass the cost of the
>domain registration
>and set up the correct DNS records to do mail and web forwarding
>for free.
Firstly, I have been given to understand that it is against acceptable
use for another organisation to set up an MX record pointing from <your
domain> to <your demon domain>. Thus you must have email forwarding (ie
a host which accepts email for <your domain> and forwards it to <your
demon domain>).
Personally I think that Demon charging 200pounds to maintain a few extra
lines in their DNS database (the domain records and the MX record for
that domain) is daylight robery - but then this topic has been
resurfacing in this group for years.
>Is there any particular reason why it is more expensive in the
>UK? Lots more admin required or something?
<cynic>
Yes, ISPs want to make a profit from a non-essential high value service.
Also it helps tie you in to one ISP.
If oxim had its own domain, my email address would be ma...@oxim.co.uk,
and messages would be forwarded to ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk. If Demon were
being particularly bad, I could change to another ISP and have mail sent
there instead, my users wouldnt know any different. But having to use an
email address of ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk locks us in (all that stationary
and business cards to reprint), which would make it very difficult for
me to justify changing ISP. Thus it is not in an ISPs interest to make
it cheap or easy to have ISP independant email addresses.
In many ways it is anti-competitive, but that is the way of the
Internet, its no different to the apalling state of number portability
in the UK.
</cynic>
Take care peoples, I hope the above information is usefull and not too
inaccurate.
--
Mark Booth (ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk)
--------------------------------------------------
Oxford Intelligent Machines Ltd, Oxford, UK.
Voice +44 (0) 1865 204881, Fax +44 (0) 1865 204882
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
In article <6x+1JGAb...@oxim.demon.co.uk>
ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk "Mark Booth" writes:
> Firstly, I have been given to understand that it is against acceptable
> use for another organisation to set up an MX record pointing from <your
> domain> to <your demon domain>. Thus you must have email forwarding (ie
> a host which accepts email for <your domain> and forwards it to <your
> demon domain>).
>
> Personally I think that Demon charging 200pounds to maintain a few extra
> lines in their DNS database (the domain records and the MX record for
> that domain) is daylight robery - but then this topic has been
> resurfacing in this group for years.
But they don't just do that, do they? They have to make the punts (and
anything else referenced in the MX records for your domain) to accept
mail addressed to som...@your.dom (remembering their anti-spam non-
relaying policy:-) and for that mail THEN to be rewritten into
som...@yournode.demon.co.uk for storage and onward delivery.
Moreover, this has to be done whenever the punts' configuration is
changed: on the odd occasions when there have been problems with the
scripts that do this, mail for mail-forwarding customers has "gone wrong"
(recently, some was bounced in error: about three years ago, some
vanished without trace). So the updating of the scripts takes vigilance,
and that's something for which one must pay.
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} b...@dsl.co.uk
"The fundamental design flaws [of the products of the Micros^WSirius
Cybernetics Corporation] are completely hidden by their superficial
design flaws." SLATFATF 1983 --- wasn't Douglas Adams prescient?:-)
Mike Pellatt
On Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:19:55 +0000, Mark Booth <ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[ snip ]
>>Also is £200 pounds per year for hosting the domain a little
>>expensive if you already have an account with the ISP? A lot of
>>US hosting services etc seem to simply pass the cost of the
>>domain registration
>>and set up the correct DNS records to do mail and web forwarding
>>for free.
>
>Firstly, I have been given to understand that it is against acceptable
>use for another organisation to set up an MX record pointing from <your
>domain> to <your demon domain>. Thus you must have email forwarding (ie
>a host which accepts email for <your domain> and forwards it to <your
>demon domain>).
>
>Personally I think that Demon charging 200pounds to maintain a few extra
>lines in their DNS database (the domain records and the MX record for
>that domain) is daylight robery - but then this topic has been
>resurfacing in this group for years.
<banging the same old drum>
Even more annoying (iniquitous, even...) is that if you upgrade from
SDU+Forwarding to a leased line say, 3 months into a year, none of
the 200 pounds mail forwarding is refundable. I'd have thought that
getting 600 squid a month (less leased line cost) would have made
it reasonable to do this. But, or so I was told, mail forwarding
is a different department. As if I cared about how Demon organised
things internally.
All this was 2 years ago now, so maybe Deomn's policies have changed.
<fx>
Phut
What was that landing on my head ?? Good grief, it's pig shit.
</banging the same old drum>
>>Is there any particular reason why it is more expensive in the
>>UK? Lots more admin required or something?
>
><cynic>
>
>Yes, ISPs want to make a profit from a non-essential high value service.
>
>Also it helps tie you in to one ISP.
Well, stuff like that above tends to have the opposite effect on
one's view of the ISP.
--
Mike Pellatt
Simon Oke
Mark Booth <ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk> writes:
> That price is the fully inclusive, ie you get your domain name hosting,
> email forwarding (mail for ma...@oxim.co.uk being sent to
> ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk) and WebForwarding (ie redirect requests for
> www.oxim.co.uk to www.oxim.demon.co.uk), all at no extra cost.
This web-forwarding is against Demon's Homepages AUP.
> Firstly, I have been given to understand that it is against acceptable
> use for another organisation to set up an MX record pointing from <your
> domain> to <your demon domain>.
Not so much against acceptable use as "it won't work". Unless Demon's
punts have been told what to do with mail for a domain, making them
the MX records for that domain isn't going to do you any good.
> Thus you must have email forwarding (ie a host which accepts email
> for <your domain> and forwards it to <your demon domain>).
Correct.
Simon.
Steve
> To be honest I cant see any reason for not going for NetNames. In fact
> at their current price I think that I'm off to register my home domain,
> its about time. *8')
I'm just going to register mine with Nominet directly. Ł80 for two years.
A while ago disillusioned with Demon's free web space with the standard
dial-up account and shocked by their high charges for commercial web space I
now web rent space in the US, where you can get lots more MBs not to mention
bandwidth (the really important figure that most UK ISPs don't mention) for
less money.
I asked my service in the States if they'd host my 'uk' domian that I
registered and what the charges would be. Said they would be happy to do it
for free. They were quite amused that UK ISPs charge Ł200 for a couple of
DNS entries.
> Personally I think that Demon charging 200pounds to maintain a few extra
> lines in their DNS database (the domain records and the MX record for
> that domain) is daylight robery - but then this topic has been
> resurfacing in this group for years.
>
> >Is there any particular reason why it is more expensive in the
> >UK? Lots more admin required or something?
>
> Also it helps tie you in to one ISP.
>
> In many ways it is anti-competitive, but that is the way of the
> Internet, its no different to the apalling state of number portability
> in the UK.
Couldn't agree more. Once I have my domain name on my server in the States I
can set up mail forwarding to anywhere. (Or I could read it on the server in
the States).
This means I only need a UK ISP for local dialup access. No more will I be
tied down to one ISP. If I find the service bad I will nolonger have any
problems like reprinting business cards, stationary etc before moving.
My annual subscription with Demon is up soon. Given the recent problems I
will be changing it to a monthly subscription and review it each month.
Infact there is NO reason whatsoever to take out an annual subscription with
Demon since they offer no discount. The only reason is because they say they
won't issue a VAT receipt for monthy subscriptions. Well this is infact
illegal. Since Demon are VAT registered they have to produce a VAT invoice
for any services they sell if requested to do so. My local VAT office were
extermely interested in Demon's behaviour when I quereyed it with them. I
expect no problems when I change to a monthly susbcription :-)
-Steve
Steve Linford
In article <86u39xs...@redcow.flibble.org>,
Simon Oke <si...@redcow.flibble.org> wrote:
> Mark Booth <ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> > That price is the fully inclusive, ie you get your domain name hosting,
> > email forwarding (mail for ma...@oxim.co.uk being sent to
> > ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk) and WebForwarding (ie redirect requests for
> > www.oxim.co.uk to www.oxim.demon.co.uk), all at no extra cost.
>
> This web-forwarding is against Demon's Homepages AUP.
Is there a technical reason for this? It sounds like "if we can't have your
money noone else can".
> > Firstly, I have been given to understand that it is against acceptable
> > use for another organisation to set up an MX record pointing from <your
> > domain> to <your demon domain>.
>
> Not so much against acceptable use as "it won't work". Unless Demon's
> punts have been told what to do with mail for a domain, making them
> the MX records for that domain isn't going to do you any good.
>
> > Thus you must have email forwarding (ie a host which accepts email
> > for <your domain> and forwards it to <your demon domain>).
>
> Correct.
This also sounds like "if we can't have your money noone else can". There
are quite a few Demon customers who's mail has been working like this for
months (ie: own domain name on a 3rd party server with MX records pointing
to the Demon web/mail account), in fact as well as a huge saving this gives
an extra bonus: for mail you can add an extra {higher} MX record for your
own mail server to have mail delivered directly to your machine while
online, bypassing the punts, and stored at Demon when you're off line.
Great for you (get mail faster, run MAPS RBL, verify IPs) and presumably
good for Demon as it takes load off Demon's mail system.
For those of us spending 820 a year (200 web + 200 mail + 300 for the
'commercial' 5mb + 120 dialup) or more, having a 3rd party do this, more
than halving our bill, is _very_ tempting, especially when there are no
valid technical reasons against it.
(For the record I'm still a Demon 820-a-year customer... but with itchy
feet)
_________________________________________________________________________
Steve Linford st...@news2.ultradesign.com
UltraDesign Technology Ltd. http://www.ultradesign.com
Richard Clayton
In article <34EAB191...@proph.demon.co.uk>, Steve
<st...@proph.demon.co.uk> writes
>My annual subscription with Demon is up soon. Given the recent problems I
>will be changing it to a monthly subscription and review it each month.
>Infact there is NO reason whatsoever to take out an annual subscription with
>Demon since they offer no discount. The only reason is because they say they
>won't issue a VAT receipt for monthy subscriptions. Well this is infact
>illegal. Since Demon are VAT registered they have to produce a VAT invoice
>for any services they sell if requested to do so.
This has come up before, and AIUI (please see .sig), in the limit Demon
will produce the VAT invoice - for indeed (IIRC) there is such an
obligation. The invoice is not usually provided so as to reduce costs,
which is perfectly acceptable to the VAT man.
That all said, I think you should bear in mind that in cases like this
where people insist on special treatment such that they receive VAT
invoices for monthly periods, the possibility does then arise that your
money for further months will be refused.
To avoid disappointment, my advice would be that you discuss these
issues with the Sales people directly, for they will know what the
current policy is. I would recommend doing this before there is any
chance of reaching a situation you dislike.
--
richard writing to inform and not as company policy
http://www.happyday.demon.co.uk/ reviews the DTI crypto proposals
"Assembly of Japanese bicycle require great peace of mind" quoted in ZAMM
Peter Galbavy
Mark Booth wrote in message <6x+1JGAb...@oxim.demon.co.uk>...
>That price is the fully inclusive, ie you get your domain name hosting,
>email forwarding (mail for ma...@oxim.co.uk being sent to
>ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk) and WebForwarding (ie redirect requests for
>www.oxim.co.uk to www.oxim.demon.co.uk), all at no extra cost.
Apart from not being allowed, this will/may stop working if and when we
start ustilizing th "Host" header in HTTP requests. Currently every
homepages users gets an IP address for their web server, but the technology
allows for the whole service to have one IP address and the HTTP protocol
can then figure out which page someone wanted by the Host header. We do not
do this at the moment, since the number of legacy browsers out there that
cannot issue the Host header is too high (for some value of too high), but
this will change in time.
When this move occurs, unless the name of your server is configured into the
system your browser will get an error returned.
Don't do it.
Peter
Peter Galbavy
Steve wrote in message <34EAB191...@proph.demon.co.uk>...
>I asked my service in the States if they'd host my 'uk' domian that I
>registered and what the charges would be. Said they would be happy to do it
>DNS entries.
This is for a number of reasons. One, the level of technical ignorance WRT
the Internet in the UK is far higher, and so UK companies must "protect"
themselves more, and if you really want you can get almost anyone on the
'net to run some static zones for you for free - just ask someone who has
the time and a permanent connection. If you want maintenance of that zone,
some form of service of bandwidth to the DNS servers, ancillary services
such as mail rewriting etc, then you have to pay the going rate for all of
these.
If you went to one of these US service providers on a retail basis, they
will charge you just like a UK one - but because you probably are a
curiosity to them, they feel like doing you a favour. See what they say when
you ask for zone changes a few times a week...
Peter
Steve
> This has come up before, and AIUI (please see .sig), in the limit Demon
> will produce the VAT invoice - for indeed (IIRC) there is such an
> obligation. The invoice is not usually provided so as to reduce costs,
> which is perfectly acceptable to the VAT man.
Yes this is perfectly acceptable. However I was told by sales staff
when I wanted a monthly subscription that Demon would not produce a
VAT invoice of monthly accounts even though I was requesting it. The
point being that if one is requested it must be supplied.
> That all said, I think you should bear in mind that in cases like this
> where people insist on special treatment such that they receive VAT
> invoices for monthly periods, the possibility does then arise that your
> money for further months will be refused.
Very interesting. Is the cost of administering VAT invoices monthly to
those who request them actually greater than the profit made on the
account? Margins must be very slim indeed.
> To avoid disappointment, my advice would be that you discuss these
> issues with the Sales people directly, for they will know what the
> current policy is. I would recommend doing this before there is any
> chance of reaching a situation you dislike.
The Demon web page clearly states "VAT receipts can only be issued on
annual accounts." and Demon are perfectly entitled to terminate
peoples accounts who request 'too many' VAT receipts.
-Steve
Simon Oke
st...@news2.ultradesign.com (Steve Linford) writes:
> In article <86u39xs...@redcow.flibble.org>,
> Simon Oke <si...@redcow.flibble.org> wrote:
>
> > Mark Booth <ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >
> > > That price is the fully inclusive, ie you get your domain name hosting,
> > > email forwarding (mail for ma...@oxim.co.uk being sent to
> > > ma...@oxim.demon.co.uk) and WebForwarding (ie redirect requests for
> > > www.oxim.co.uk to www.oxim.demon.co.uk), all at no extra cost.
> >
> > This web-forwarding is against Demon's Homepages AUP.
>
> Is there a technical reason for this? It sounds like "if we can't have your
> money noone else can".
For the reason given by Peter Galbavy; namely that when everyone is
using HTTP 1.1 browsers Demon will no longer allocate an IP address to
every virtual host on their homepages servers and CNAMEs will cease to
work.
> > > Firstly, I have been given to understand that it is against acceptable
> > > use for another organisation to set up an MX record pointing from <your
> > > domain> to <your demon domain>.
> >
> > Not so much against acceptable use as "it won't work". Unless Demon's
> > punts have been told what to do with mail for a domain, making them
> > the MX records for that domain isn't going to do you any good.
> >
> > > Thus you must have email forwarding (ie a host which accepts email
> > > for <your domain> and forwards it to <your demon domain>).
> >
> > Correct.
>
> This also sounds like "if we can't have your money noone else can". There
> are quite a few Demon customers who's mail has been working like this for
> months (ie: own domain name on a 3rd party server with MX records pointing
> to the Demon web/mail account), in fact as well as a huge saving this gives
> an extra bonus: for mail you can add an extra {higher} MX record for your
> own mail server to have mail delivered directly to your machine while
> online, bypassing the punts, and stored at Demon when you're off line.
> Great for you (get mail faster, run MAPS RBL, verify IPs) and presumably
> good for Demon as it takes load off Demon's mail system.
Making puntX.mail.demon.net an MX for domain.com does not tell puntX
to which demon.co.uk dialup account it should deliver mail for
domain.com
Simon.
Tony Williams
In article <tGoqHvAd...@turnpike.com>, Richard Clayton
<URL:mailto:ric...@turnpike.com> wrote:
> This has come up before, and AIUI (please see .sig), in the limit Demon
> will produce the VAT invoice - for indeed (IIRC) there is such an
> obligation. The invoice is not usually provided so as to reduce costs,
> which is perfectly acceptable to the VAT man.
If you are VAT-rated you are running a business and will therefore
have a business bank account. Since such accounts generally incur
charges related to the monthly activity it is silly to make many
small payments. Also many small VAT-invoices have to be handled at
both ends causing extra costs.
Having said that, I pay Demon yearly in advance, and have often
wondered why no discount is offered.... after all it's a 1-shot
admin charge and they have the interest on my money.
--
Tony Williams.
Tim Franklin
Steve (st...@proph.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: > This has come up before, and AIUI (please see .sig), in the limit Demon
: > will produce the VAT invoice - for indeed (IIRC) there is such an
: > obligation. The invoice is not usually provided so as to reduce costs,
: > which is perfectly acceptable to the VAT man.
: Yes this is perfectly acceptable. However I was told by sales staff
: when I wanted a monthly subscription that Demon would not produce a
: VAT invoice of monthly accounts even though I was requesting it. The
: point being that if one is requested it must be supplied.
I thought the line was originally that the Demon subscription was an
annual service, for which a VAT receipt would be issued. As a favour,
Demon would be prepared to agree to your payment of the account monthly,
provided that you agreed not to request a VAT receipt. That's not quite
the same thing as offering a monthly option and refusing a VAT invoice.
I *think* that's the conclusion that was reached last time we were on this
particular roundabout. Doubtless someone will be along to correct me
shortly...
Tim.
--
Tim Franklin | Progress (n.) : The process through which
t...@pelican.org | Usenet has evolved from smart people in front
Fido: Tim Franklin@2:257/155 | of dumb terminals to dumb people in front of
http://www.pelican.org/~tim | smart terminals. - "obscurity", 10/12/97
Steve
> I thought the line was originally that the Demon subscription was an
> annual service, for which a VAT receipt would be issued. As a favour,
> Demon would be prepared to agree to your payment of the account monthly,
> provided that you agreed not to request a VAT receipt. That's not quite
> the same thing as offering a monthly option and refusing a VAT invoice.
Extrodinary! Would this be a verbal agreement not to request a VAT
receipt or a written one? Wonder whose side Mr VAT man would be on if
the customer was to break this 'agreement'!
-Steve
Tony Finch
Simon Oke <si...@redcow.flibble.org> wrote:
>st...@news2.ultradesign.com (Steve Linford) writes:
>>
>> Is there a technical reason for this? It sounds like "if we can't have your
>> money noone else can".
>
>For the reason given by Peter Galbavy; namely that when everyone is
>using HTTP 1.1 browsers Demon will no longer allocate an IP address to
>every virtual host on their homepages servers and CNAMEs will cease to
>work.
CNAMEs don't work now, either.
Tony.
--
F.A.N.Finch ::0:0::: <d...@dotat.at>
System Administrator <fa...@demon.net>
Demon Internet [speaking in a private capacity]
Peter Ceresole
In article <ant18155...@ledelec.demon.co.uk>,
Tony Williams <to...@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> If you are VAT-rated you are running a business and will therefore
> have a business bank account.
Not so. I am a freelance worker and VAT-rated. But I don't have a business
bank account and I think that's true of most freelances.
--
Peter
Steve Linford
In article <86sopgd...@redcow.flibble.org>,
Simon Oke <si...@redcow.flibble.org> wrote:
> st...@news2.ultradesign.com (Steve Linford) writes:
>
> > In article <86u39xs...@redcow.flibble.org>,
> > Simon Oke <si...@redcow.flibble.org> wrote:
> >
> > > This web-forwarding is against Demon's Homepages AUP.
> >
> > Is there a technical reason for this? It sounds like "if we can't have your
> > money noone else can".
>
> For the reason given by Peter Galbavy; namely that when everyone is
> using HTTP 1.1 browsers Demon will no longer allocate an IP address to
> every virtual host on their homepages servers and CNAMEs will cease to
> work.
The IP address shouldn't be used in the forwarding then, but I can't see
anything wrong with other methods (such as using a frame which even hides
the "hostname.demon.co.uk" in the browser location bar replacing it with
the own domain name), I mean the harm to Demon is nil as Demon by choice
have priced 'own domain name' out of the reach of most of their customers
so Demon isn't loosing any custom by allowing 3rd parties to fill the gap.
It's actually benefitting because the customer stays with Demon rather than
moving everything to the 3rd party.
> > > Not so much against acceptable use as "it won't work". Unless Demon's
> > > punts have been told what to do with mail for a domain, making them
> > > the MX records for that domain isn't going to do you any good.
> > >
> > > > Thus you must have email forwarding (ie a host which accepts email
> > > > for <your domain> and forwards it to <your demon domain>).
> > >
> > > Correct.
> >
> > This also sounds like "if we can't have your money noone else can". There
> > are quite a few Demon customers who's mail has been working like this for
> > months (ie: own domain name on a 3rd party server with MX records pointing
> > to the Demon web/mail account), in fact as well as a huge saving this gives
> > an extra bonus: for mail you can add an extra {higher} MX record for your
> > own mail server to have mail delivered directly to your machine while
> > online, bypassing the punts, and stored at Demon when you're off line.
> > Great for you (get mail faster, run MAPS RBL, verify IPs) and presumably
> > good for Demon as it takes load off Demon's mail system.
>
> Making puntX.mail.demon.net an MX for domain.com does not tell puntX
> to which demon.co.uk dialup account it should deliver mail for
> domain.com
Sorry - you're right I should have rephrased this, I meant that
<*@domain.com> would already arrive at puntX as <*@domain.demon.co.uk>
having been forwarded/rewritten by the 3rd party, generally for less than
half the price of Demon's Mail Forwarding, but with the added benefit of
being able to point at the user's machine for direct delivery if the user
is online.
Steve Linford
In article <B11080C2...@ultradesign.demon.co.uk>,
st...@news2.ultradesign.com (Steve Linford) wrote:
> (For the record I'm still a Demon 820-a-year customer... but with itchy
> feet)
Err, before some Demon staff jump in to wish me byebye (Yo! one that's
bugged us since 94 is off!) I'll rephrase that... it's itchy feet DNS-wise,
not connectivity-wise! As far as connectivity is concerned - despite the
odd hiccups - Demon's service is now very, very good (streuth, did I say
that?)
Richard Letts
In the computer contracting business most people are employees of a
limited company they own. Many of the agencies seem to insist upon
this sort of setup. I can't see how a Ltd company can avoid having a
bank account.
either way, paying GBP120 for a TAM account in one chunk is hardly going
to be /that/ much of a strain for a company running a business surely?
RjL
+----------------------------+
| ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk | Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
+----------------------------+
Richard Letts
Steve (st...@proph.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>> To be honest I cant see any reason for not going for NetNames. In fact
>> at their current price I think that I'm off to register my home domain,
>> its about time. *8')
>
erm what you get for this are NS records, and possibly glue A records. you
doesn't get anything remotely useful. you need to provide (two) of your own
DNS servers somewhere. /this/ is what you are paying for in registering an
account: the running of two machines reliably connected to the Internet,
backed-up, and restored by the company running them for you in the event of
failure.
eg. the example.com would have the following the the [COM] DNS servers:
example.co.uk. IN NS ns0.example.co.uk.
example.co.uk. IN NS ns1.example.co.uk.
ns0.example.co.uk. IN A 10.0.0.1
ns1.example.co.uk. IN A 10.0.0.2
there you go, eighty quid for two years.... and no use at all without
[example.com] maintained on ns0.example.com [or ns1.example.com]
if an ISP is managing the namespace you pay eighty quid for...
example.co.uk. IN NS ns0.demon.net
example.co.uk. IN NS ns1.demon.net
hope that helps...
Peter Ceresole
In article <6cfnmv$t6i$1...@illuin.demon.co.uk>,
Richard Letts <ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In the computer contracting business most people are employees of a
>limited company they own. Many of the agencies seem to insist upon
>this sort of setup. I can't see how a Ltd company can avoid having a
>bank account.
I'm sure you are right; I didn't know that because I'm not in the computer
contracting business. I just make TV programmes and several of my
colleagues have Demon accounts. But you can always tell the producers
who're going places because they have the kind of arrangement you describe.
Owner and principal employee of MegaTurbo Productions (the other employee
is of course Mrs MegaTurbo). Then there are the ones like me who are
visiting firemen wherever they can find a slot...
--
Peter
Steve
Richard Letts wrote:
>
> Steve (st...@proph.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> >> To be honest I cant see any reason for not going for NetNames. In fact
> >> at their current price I think that I'm off to register my home domain,
> >> its about time. *8')
> >
>
> erm what you get for this are NS records, and possibly glue A records. you
> doesn't get anything remotely useful. you need to provide (two) of your own
> DNS servers somewhere. /this/ is what you are paying for in registering an
> account: the running of two machines reliably connected to the Internet,
> backed-up, and restored by the company running them for you in the event of
> failure.
Sorry, maybe I didn't make that too clear this is already offered by
my web hosting service in the States. They were perfectly happy to set
the DNS up for my domain for free. Because I am an existing customer
they don't seem to keen on stinging me for a few DNS entries on a DNS
service they already maintain.
> there you go, eighty quid for two years.... and no use at all without
> [example.com] maintained on ns0.example.com [or ns1.example.com]
> if an ISP is managing the namespace you pay eighty quid for...
> example.co.uk. IN NS ns0.demon.net
> example.co.uk. IN NS ns1.demon.net
I think most charge you more than 80quid for this in the UK.
Then they want 200 for email fowarding and 200 for web forwarding etc.
Whilst the UK ISPs are well within their rights to charge whatever
they like for these services it just companies in the US will do far
cheaper. And customer service is generally better in the States.
-Steve
Richard Letts
In illuin.replies Steve <st...@proph.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> if an ISP is managing the namespace you pay eighty quid for...
>> example.co.uk. IN NS ns0.demon.net
>> example.co.uk. IN NS ns1.demon.net
>
> I think most charge you more than 80quid for this in the UK.
> Then they want 200 for email fowarding and 200 for web forwarding etc.
sorry, I meant nominet charge 80 quid for the two lines; the ISP then
charges 120 quid for the rest of the work, which i personally don't see as
being that bad.
> Whilst the UK ISPs are well within their rights to charge whatever
> they like for these services it just companies in the US will do far
> cheaper. And customer service is generally better in the States.
fine... competition is good.
Neil
Hi,
pe...@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) writes:
> > If you are VAT-rated you are running a business and will therefore
> > have a business bank account.
>
> Not so. I am a freelance worker and VAT-rated. But I don't have a
business
> bank account and I think that's true of most freelances.
Quite right Peter - it's the person that's VAT registered for non
incorporated companies - not the bank account !
Neil
Stuart Millington
On 18 Feb 1998 22:43:55 -0000, Richard Letts
<ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>example.co.uk. IN NS ns0.example.co.uk.
>example.co.uk. IN NS ns1.example.co.uk.
>ns0.example.co.uk. IN A 10.0.0.1
>ns1.example.co.uk. IN A 10.0.0.2
I assume that this is an example only and that you are not
seriously suggesting that and ISP uses 10.X.X.X addresses ?!? (like
some US ISP's)
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
- Stuart Millington -
- ph...@wormhole.demon.co.uk ph...@wormhole.ndirect.co.uk -
- http://www.wormhole.demon.co.uk http://www.wormhole.ndirect.co.uk -
Richard Letts
Stuart Millington <ph...@wormhole.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 18 Feb 1998 22:43:55 -0000, Richard Letts
> <ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>example.co.uk. IN NS ns0.example.co.uk.
>>example.co.uk. IN NS ns1.example.co.uk.
>>ns0.example.co.uk. IN A 10.0.0.1
>>ns1.example.co.uk. IN A 10.0.0.2
>
> I assume that this is an example only and that you are not
> seriously suggesting that and ISP uses 10.X.X.X addresses ?!? (like
> some US ISP's)
I carefully chose example.co.uk and RFC1918 addresses so people would not
be tempted to copy my example verbatum on applications, and even if they
did they would not cause anyone problems.