Computer Magazine should be shot
David GJ Roberts
Whilst in WH Smith today, looking for PCW, I picked up a copy of another PC
magazine, and read on ISP/OSPs....
It mentioned...
Virgin,
AOL,
Compuswerve
and Microsoft...
NO mention of Demon? Why not?
Look how virgin managed to get 80,000 odd people 'onto' the net by providing
3 month free trials.. Hmmn...
Its all very odd really, but I didnt like the fact that demon were not
included
I'll remember the magazine in a moment or two...
David, I can't remember it I really cant! Haylp!
--
whoami: David J Roberts -----------------------------------
HOSTNAME: hayley.demon.co.uk | WANTED: |
mail: gad...@hayley.demon.co.uk | IDE hard disk 300-500Mb ish |
httpd: http://www.hayley.demon.co.uk | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Neil J. McRae
On 3 Apr 1997 00:35:51 GMT,
> Look how virgin managed to get 80,000 odd people 'onto' the net by providing
> 3 month free trials.. Hmmn...
In Richard Bransons wet dreams!
Neil
--
Neil J. McRae - Alive and Kicking. D O M I N O
ne...@DOMINO.ORG NetBSD/sparc - 100% SpF (Solaris protection Factor)
Free the daemon in your <A HREF="http://www.NetBSD.ORG/">Computer!</A>
Peter Galbavy
David GJ Roberts <gad...@hayley.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<5huu17$mja$4...@hayley.demon.co.uk>...
>
> Whilst in WH Smith today, looking for PCW, I picked up a copy of another
PC
> magazine, and read on ISP/OSPs....
>
> It mentioned...
>
> Virgin,
> AOL,
> Compuswerve
> and Microsoft...
>
> NO mention of Demon? Why not?
When you remember which magazine it was, please go and look at it again.
Then find which of the companies listed have adverts in the magazine, and
which have not. The link between the editorial group and the advertising
revenue is not as non-existent as the editors of most publications would
have you believe.
regards,
--
Peter Galbavy
Demon Internet Ltd
http://www.demon.net/ http://www.whirl-y-gig.org.uk/
http://www.wonderland.org/
Be remembered not for your final destination in life, but for your
journey.
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
In article <01bc40ec$43e2d550$e0e0c3c1@peter>
pe...@demon.net "Peter Galbavy" writes:
> David GJ Roberts <gad...@hayley.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
> <5huu17$mja$4...@hayley.demon.co.uk>...
> >
> > Whilst in WH Smith today, looking for PCW, I picked up a copy of another
> PC
> > magazine, and read on ISP/OSPs....
> >
> > It mentioned...
> >
> > Virgin,
> > AOL,
> > Compuswerve
> > and Microsoft...
> >
> > NO mention of Demon? Why not?
>
> When you remember which magazine it was, please go and look at it again.
> Then find which of the companies listed have adverts in the magazine, and
> which have not. The link between the editorial group and the advertising
> revenue is not as non-existent as the editors of most publications would
> have you believe.
Whilst understanding your chagrin, Peter, I believe it's the
comprehension of David that's at fault. If I identify the magazine
correctly from his description (I think it was PC Plus/Pro (?), which
also included two cover CDs, amongst which was a complete fully-working
copy of Lotus SmartSuite'97), then they were conducting a survey of
*on-line service providers*, so of course Demon would not be included.
Indeed, I was a little perturBed at first when I saw the cover of the
magazine on the shelves (I wouldn't *buy* it:-), and then realized that
ISPs that provided *proper* Internet connections were not part of the
remit for the survey.
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} b...@dsl.co.uk
"We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce
the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know
this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California
Howard Fisher
In article <01bc40ec$43e2d550$e0e0c3c1@peter>, Peter Galbavy
<pe...@demon.net> writes
>David GJ Roberts <gad...@hayley.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
><5huu17$mja$4...@hayley.demon.co.uk>...
>>
>> Whilst in WH Smith today, looking for PCW, I picked up a copy of another
>PC
>> magazine, and read on ISP/OSPs....
>>
>> It mentioned...
>>
>> Virgin,
>> AOL,
>> Compuswerve
>> and Microsoft...
>>
>> NO mention of Demon? Why not?
>
>When you remember which magazine it was, please go and look at it again.
>Then find which of the companies listed have adverts in the magazine, and
>which have not. The link between the editorial group and the advertising
>revenue is not as non-existent as the editors of most publications would
>have you believe.
>
Branson is renowned for how little his companies spend on advertising -
and still everyone thinks Virgin Atlantic gives good service :-)
But if it's the mention in PC Plus this month that David Roberts saw,
that is specifically on online services which provide content as well as
Internet access (it even mentions UK Online), so you wouldn't expect it
to mention Demon.
--
Howard Fisher
Bob Adams
In article <33507ebe...@news.prestel.co.uk>, Ken Hughes
<k...@kenhughes.prestel.co.uk> writes
>
>I have now returned to the world of true journalism - local newspapers -
>
>I slated the first Amstrad protable PC despite the fact that Amstrad
>advertised heavily in my magazine, and our sister comapny, Database
Are you sure you're not really working for the Grauniad? ;-)
--
Bob Adams
http://www.amster.demon.co.uk
Nick Humphries
On Fri, 04 Apr 1997 22:34:50 GMT, k...@kenhughes.prestel.co.uk (Ken
Hughes) wrote:
>As a former editor of various computer magazines, I find this statement
>highly offensive. I worked for the Database Publications group before it
>was bought out by the American publishing house IDG.
>
>I have now returned to the world of true journalism - local newspapers -
>
>However, I can assure Demon subscribers that *no* bias was exercised
>based on whether a particular company advertises with the magazine or
>not.
Not knowing whether or not the magazine was published by DP or IDG,
I'm not certain if the following bit is relevant or not, but...
For some Spectrum magazines (up to about 1992), review scores WERE
affected by advertising. In return for either advertising or games to
be put on cover tapes/disks, previews and reviews for the company's
products would be "inflated". Not saying it still happens now, but it
happened then.
Nick Humphries, ni...@the-den.demon.co.uk, at your service
If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here?
Peter McDermott
In article <5huu17$mja$4...@hayley.demon.co.uk>,
gad...@hayley.demon.co.uk (David GJ Roberts) wrote:
>Virgin,
>AOL,
>Compuswerve
>and Microsoft...
>
>NO mention of Demon? Why not?
The above for are all fuckwit ISP's, perhaps?
>Look how virgin managed to get 80,000 odd people 'onto' the net by providing
>3 month free trials.. Hmmn...
>
>Its all very odd really, but I didnt like the fact that demon were not
>included
Personally, I love it. Imagine the effect of 80,000 newbies swarming
all over Demon using free trial accounts?
*shudder*
Bob Adams
In article <AF6C28BB9...@petermc.demon.co.uk>, Peter McDermott
<ne...@petermc.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>Personally, I love it. Imagine the effect of 80,000 newbies swarming
>all over Demon using free trial accounts?
>
>*shudder*
>
Erm... what is stopping them doing exactly that already?
Paul C. Dickie
In article <5huu17$mja$4...@hayley.demon.co.uk>, David GJ Roberts
<gad...@hayley.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Look how virgin managed to get 80,000 odd people 'onto' the net by providing
>3 month free trials.. Hmmn...
Eh? There are already surely more than enough "odd people" at Demon...
So why recruit more? ;-)
< Paul >
Gary Cooper
In article <33507ebe...@news.prestel.co.uk>
k...@kenhughes.prestel.co.uk "Ken Hughes" writes:
> As a former editor of various computer magazines, I find this statement
> highly offensive. I worked for the Database Publications group before it
> was bought out by the American publishing house IDG.
<snipped for space>
I am, likewise, a former editor and publisher (though not of
computer magazines). The comment made was just the sort of
ill-informed, prejudiced rubbish we journalists are often
accused of writing.
--
Gary Cooper
Peter McDermott
In article <860286...@wordshop.demon.co.uk>,
Coo...@wordshop.demon.co.uk (Gary Cooper) wrote:
>> As a former editor of various computer magazines, I find this statement
>> highly offensive. I worked for the Database Publications group before it
>> was bought out by the American publishing house IDG.
>I am, likewise, a former editor and publisher (though not of
>computer magazines). The comment made was just the sort of
>ill-informed, prejudiced rubbish we journalists are often
>accused of writing.
I too, am a sometime contributor to several national magazines
(though not computer mags) and I've certainly been asked to
include material about a big new advertiser in my copy - the
first time I ever sold a piece in fact.
I wasn't told how to cover it, but my copy _was_ sent back with
a request to make it more 'upbeat'.
Since then, I've become pretty friendly with the editor, and I
know that he isn't the time of person who thinks along those lines,
so I've since concluded he was almost certainly under pressure
from his publisher/owner to do this.
Brian Polkinghorne
>In article <33507ebe...@news.prestel.co.uk>
> k...@kenhughes.prestel.co.uk "Ken Hughes" writes:
>I am, likewise, a former editor and publisher (though not of
>computer magazines). The comment made was just the sort of
>ill-informed, prejudiced rubbish we journalists are often
>accused of writing.
>
Should there not be a full stop between 'we' and 'rubbish'? ;-)
B.
Gary Cooper
In article <69ef...@compton.demon.co.uk>
t...@compton.demon.co.uk "Tom Hughes" writes:
> k...@kenhughes.prestel.co.uk (Ken Hughes) wrote:
>
> > However, the same rules applied as did to the rest of the magazine. If
> > the product was considered to be crap by our reviewer, then the review
> > would not be published *and* the product would not be included on the
> > cover disk.
>
> Which reveals one of the common (and to my mind wrong) things
> that computer magazines do to avoid upsetting advertisers - they
> drop a review if it says the product is crap rather than printing
> it and telling everyone how bad the product is. That is a disservice
> to readers (aka potential purchasers of the product).
Yes, I must say, that did worry me, too. In my own former
field of interest, a (rival) magazine group adopted this
policy and I thought then, as I do now, that it was pretty
disreputable. The public needs to be warned what to avoid, as
much as what they should buy.
--
Gary Cooper
Birmingham City Council EDD Training Services
>revenue is not as non-existent as the editors of most publications would
>have you believe.
Let me add my disquiet at this statement to those of others. I write a
classical music column for a magazine which has not, to date and to the
best of my knowledge, ever carried advertising from a classical music
record label. I write rock and theatre reviews which are generally run
regardless of whether or not the band's label, or the venue, advertise
with the magazine.
--
Andy Mabbett
(personal view only - *not* my employers!)
Tom Hughes
In article <334b1ce4...@news.prestel.co.uk>
k...@kenhughes.prestel.co.uk (Ken Hughes) wrote:
> However, the same rules applied as did to the rest of the magazine. If
> the product was considered to be crap by our reviewer, then the review
> would not be published *and* the product would not be included on the
> cover disk.
Which reveals one of the common (and to my mind wrong) things
that computer magazines do to avoid upsetting advertisers - they
drop a review if it says the product is crap rather than printing
it and telling everyone how bad the product is. That is a disservice
to readers (aka potential purchasers of the product).
Tom
--
Tom Hughes (t...@compton.demon.co.uk)
http://www.compton.demon.co.uk/
...Function reject.
Paul Copsey
In <334b1ce4...@news.prestel.co.uk>,
Ken Hughes <k...@kenhughes.prestel.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Apr 1997 18:25:59 GMT, ni...@emailme.at.address.below (Nick
> Humphries) issued the following prose:
>
> >For some Spectrum magazines (up to about 1992), review scores WERE
> >affected by advertising. In return for either advertising or games to
> >be put on cover tapes/disks, previews and reviews for the company's
> >products would be "inflated". Not saying it still happens now, but it
> >happened then.
>
> you personally involved or did you "hear it on the grapevine"?
It was fairly obvious simply by reading the review and playing the
demo or god forbid, having purchased the game prior to either. Some
very foul (not just from a gameplay, but from a technical PoV) games
received some ridiculous scores.
Paul
Phil Payne
> Which reveals one of the common (and to my mind wrong) things
> that computer magazines do to avoid upsetting advertisers - they
> drop a review if it says the product is crap rather than printing
> it and telling everyone how bad the product is. That is a disservice
> to readers (aka potential purchasers of the product).
Do I remember someone asking upthread why Demon wasn't mentioned?
--
Phil Payne
Phone: +44 385302803 Fax: +44 1536723021 CIS: 100012,1660
Alan Harding
In article <860483...@sievers.com>, Phil Payne <Ph...@sievers.com>
writes
>In article <69ef...@compton.demon.co.uk>
> t...@compton.demon.co.uk "Tom Hughes" writes:
>
>> Which reveals one of the common (and to my mind wrong) things
>> that computer magazines do to avoid upsetting advertisers - they
>> drop a review if it says the product is crap rather than printing
>> it and telling everyone how bad the product is. That is a disservice
>> to readers (aka potential purchasers of the product).
>
>Do I remember someone asking upthread why Demon wasn't mentioned?
Demon was not mentioned because it was a review of "on-line services",
and Demon is an ISP rather than an OLS.
--
Al...@harding.demon.co.uk = Alan Harding = ahar...@netcomuk.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The opinions given above may be mine. They might also
just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?
Howard Fisher
In article <8UtYYBB4...@harding.demon.co.uk>, Alan Harding
<Al...@harding.demon.co.uk> wrote
>In article <860483...@sievers.com>, Phil Payne <Ph...@sievers.com>
>writes
>>In article <69ef...@compton.demon.co.uk>
>> t...@compton.demon.co.uk "Tom Hughes" writes:
>>
>>> Which reveals one of the common (and to my mind wrong) things
>>> that computer magazines do to avoid upsetting advertisers - they
>>> drop a review if it says the product is crap rather than printing
>>> it and telling everyone how bad the product is. That is a disservice
>>> to readers (aka potential purchasers of the product).
>>
>>Do I remember someone asking upthread why Demon wasn't mentioned?
>
>Demon was not mentioned because it was a review of "on-line services",
>and Demon is an ISP rather than an OLS.
>
they'll be reviewing ISPs.
--
Howard Fisher
Nick Humphries
In <334b1ce4...@news.prestel.co.uk>,
Ken Hughes <k...@kenhughes.prestel.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Apr 1997 18:25:59 GMT, ni...@emailme.at.address.below (Nick
> Humphries) issued the following prose:
>
> >For some Spectrum magazines (up to about 1992), review scores WERE
> >affected by advertising. In return for either advertising or games o
> >be put on cover tapes/disks, previews and reviews for the company'
> >products would be "inflated". Not saying it still happens now, butit
> >happened then.
>
> Nick, I would be interested in your evidence for this statement. Were
> you personally involved or did you "hear it on the grapevine"?
It was mentioned in passing many times in rival publications. not
concrete proof in itself, but upon looking into it it would be obvious
that if a magazine has a cover picture, demo on tape and rate a game
in the 90% area and every other magazine for that format rate it in
the region of 60%, alarm bells start to ring.
Peter McDermott
In article <334a6d9b...@news.prestel.co.uk>,
k...@kenhughes.prestel.co.uk (Ken Hughes) wrote:
>If a particular product was not being reviewed in any of the mainstream
>magazines, that said far more than a page of rubbishing copy. Readers
>are generally far more intelligent than some people give them credit for
>and are more than able to work these things out.
You don't bother with Usenet much, do you Ken? :-)
Phil Boswell
For some ineffable reason, Peter McDermott (Peter McDermott
<ne...@petermc.demon.co.uk>) considered 19:41:16 Wed, 9 Apr 1997 the
perfect time to utter those immortal words:
>In article <334a6d9b...@news.prestel.co.uk>,
>k...@kenhughes.prestel.co.uk (Ken Hughes) wrote:
>>If a particular product was not being reviewed in any of the mainstream
>>magazines, that said far more than a page of rubbishing copy. Readers
>>are generally far more intelligent than some people give them credit for
>>and are more than able to work these things out.
>You don't bother with Usenet much, do you Ken? :-)
I think you're over-estimating the average level of literacy on UseNet.
How do you equate "readers" with some of the clowns littering the place?
Also, it's not for nothing that UseNet is sometimes referred to as a
"write-only medium".
:-)
--
Phil Boswell (Systems Manager) Codd & Date Ltd
1 Broadway Court, CHESHAM, Bucks HP5 1EG
http://www.codd-date.co.uk/
Strictly my own opinion, as if anyone else would want it ...