SPEAK ENGLISH AND LEARN TO SPELL DEMON - Reporting Problems
James Cracknell
From finger status@gate
tony Transatlantic loss of connectivity owing to high order failure
13:34 Jan 12 at telecommunications provider.
Does a high order failure mean the US government is dire???
I understand Demon is going through some problems of late, and from trying
other ISP's, honestly I'll admit Demon has got its act together more than
most....but it can improve!
Could it tell us honest sensible reasons on why there is a particular
network outage and not talk in jargon.
Or you could just "appologise" as I read on status@gate. Or "we apologies".
It's such bad use of English...we have to read this you know.
Also can't Demon create Lo-Call/free numbers for customer support?
or a number which has a recorded message incase of a major network
outage???? Such as an 0800 number. This would SAVE MONEY AND TIME....it
would be a boon to customer support if we could just pick up the phone and
hear what the problem is free of charge, without engaged tones, calling
London etc. It costs us 5p on BT to keep on trying....this quickly amounts
up.
Just a thought!
--
James Cracknell
www.landguard.demon.co.uk
Get rid of the 'news' to return mail.
Ja...@news-landguard.demon.co.uk
Clive D.W. Feather
In article <885068464.23537.3...@news.demon.co.uk>, James
Cracknell <ja...@teletubbies-landguard.demon.co.uk> writes
>From finger status@gate
>
>tony Transatlantic loss of connectivity owing to high order failure
>13:34 Jan 12 at telecommunications provider.
>
>Does a high order failure mean the US government is dire???
This usually means "BT have managed to break several dozen lines at
once".
>Could it tell us honest sensible reasons on why there is a particular
>network outage and not talk in jargon.
I suspect these words were used to distinguish "we've broken our DS3"
from "someone else has broken our DS3" to "someone's broken a DS4".
>Or you could just "appologise" as I read on status@gate. Or "we apologies".
>It's such bad use of English...we have to read this you know.
Such mistakes happen when you're trying to get out a quick notification.
--
Clive D.W. Feather | Director of Software Development | Home email:
Tel: +44 181 371 1138 | Demon Internet Ltd. | <cl...@davros.org>
Fax: +44 181 371 1037 | <cl...@demon.net> |
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
David G. Bell
In article <GUAIREB5...@romana.davros.org>
cl...@demon.net "Clive D.W. Feather" writes:
> In article <885068464.23537.3...@news.demon.co.uk>, James
> Cracknell <ja...@teletubbies-landguard.demon.co.uk> writes
> >From finger status@gate
> >
> >tony Transatlantic loss of connectivity owing to high order failure
> >13:34 Jan 12 at telecommunications provider.
> >
> >Does a high order failure mean the US government is dire???
>
> This usually means "BT have managed to break several dozen lines at
> once".
On one fairly famous occasion, most of the transAtlantic cables were
snapped by a gigantic mud-slide off the Grand Banks.
More relevant to Demon, a year or two back they found out, the hard way,
that their allegedly independent circuits to the US went down the same
trunk between New York and Washington.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger..
Richard Letts
James Cracknell (ja...@teletubbies-landguard.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> From finger status@gate
>
> tony Transatlantic loss of connectivity owing to high order failure
> 13:34 Jan 12 at telecommunications provider.
>
> Does a high order failure mean the US government is dire???
>
translated it says BT (or whoever) have some broken equipment and
demon have to wait for them to fix it.
the telecom providers 'aggregate' the phone calls, international leased
lines, etc together and put as many as possible on one fibre [pair].
If demon have leased a T3/DS3 [45Mbps] BT (or whoever) may add this
together with some other leased lines onto a STM-1 (155Mbps) or higher
order circuit.
'higher order' comes because the speeds are ordered in heirarchies,
generally 'PDH' or plesiochronous[1] digital heirarchy, and 'SDH' or
synronous digital heirarchy.
PDH is used on/in older circuits, SDH tends to be used on modern/newer
circuits.
example of a Heirarchy (STMx being SDH speeds):
E1 2Mbps
E2 8Mbps
E3 34Mbps
STM1 155.520Mbps
STM4 622.080Mbps
STM12 2.4Gbps
Nynex/CWC use STM-4 to collect the telephone channels from the street
cabintes and bring them back to their switching centres. If there is a
'high order failure' this has broken, and lots of people's lines have
stopped working. {aside: the STM-4 is a physical ring, so if the ring is
broken data can flow in the opposite connection.}
RjL
[1]I once took the minutes for a service of meetings and one standing item
was a correction to the way this was spelt in the previous minutes...
+----------------------------+
| ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk | Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
+----------------------------+
Mark Baker
In article <69ror6$4ku$1...@illuin.demon.co.uk>,
Richard Letts <ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk> writes:
> example of a Heirarchy (STMx being SDH speeds):
> E1 2Mbps
> E2 8Mbps
> E3 34Mbps
> STM1 155.520Mbps
> STM4 622.080Mbps
> STM12 2.4Gbps
Not really; as I understand it it would be unusual to put E2 or E3 into an
STM1 unless lines of those speeds are wanted by customers; the phone company
would otherwise just fill it up with E1s, and not group them into any
intermediate level frames.
Paul Copsey
In <GUAIREB5...@romana.davros.org>,
Clive D.W. Feather <cl...@on-the-train.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> from "someone else has broken our DS3" to "someone's broken a DS4".
Just how big is a DS4? I assume it's bigger than a DS3?
Paul
--
Usenet '97 - The year of 12 Septembers.
Dave Smith
Richard Letts wrote in message <69ror6$4ku$1...@illuin.demon.co.uk>...
>James Cracknell (ja...@teletubbies-landguard.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> E1 2Mbps
> E2 8Mbps
> E3 34Mbps
> STM1 155.520Mbps
> STM4 622.080Mbps
> STM12 2.4Gbps
Am I right in saying 155.520 is also known as OC3 and 622.080 is
OC12?
--
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Dave Smith - Microsoft Certified Professional Level 3 |
| Powered by NT4 & Exchange Server v5.5 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
James Cracknell
>This usually means "BT have managed to break several dozen lines at
>once".
Good...well not good, but at least that makes more sense to me....or rather
the full technical explanation does too.
>Such mistakes happen when you're trying to get out a quick notification.
OK
Still could do with a number with a recorded message for network outages
though.
cheers
James
James Cracknell www.landguard.demon.co.uk
To e-mail remove -news- from the return address
james@-news-landguard.demon.co.uk anti-spam
Mark Baker
In article <048D7CE97288D111AA...@tornado.thundernet.co.uk>,
"Dave Smith" <ad...@thundernet.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Am I right in saying 155.520 is also known as OC3
In the US, OC3 is the pipe, STC-3 is the frame format that is used with it.
In the US they occasionally (I don't think it's used much any more) use OC1,
which was 55Mbit/s. This wasn't a convenient size to fit E1s into, so
couldn't be used in the rest of the world.
STM1 (I think the same name is used for both the pipe and the frame format)
is a convenient size for either T1s or E1s.
Denis McMahon
On Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:32:41 -0000, "James Cracknell"
<ja...@teletubbies-landguard.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>From finger status@gate
>
>tony Transatlantic loss of connectivity owing to high order failure
>13:34 Jan 12 at telecommunications provider.
>
>Does a high order failure mean the US government is dire???
>
>I understand Demon is going through some problems of late, and from trying
>other ISP's, honestly I'll admit Demon has got its act together more than
>most....but it can improve!
>
>Could it tell us honest sensible reasons on why there is a particular
>network outage and not talk in jargon.
Ooops, "High Order Failure" is probably the telecomms jargon that
demon received from the transatlantic pipe provider.
As you multiplex more and more channel into a telecomms link (eg a
fibre) you "raise" the order. eg T1, T3 etc ......
I would interpret a "high order failure" as one affecting either all
of a cable, or a large number of circuits in a cable. Failure could be
of the cable itself, or of terminating and multiplexing equipment at
either end.
I agree that sometimes information is lacking, but when the problem is
external, surely demon can only pass on what they are told by their
comms providers.
Rgds
Denis
Clive D.W. Feather
In article <980118.1...@hectortd.demon.co.uk>, Paul Copsey
<pa...@hectortd.demon.co.uk> writes
>In <GUAIREB5...@romana.davros.org>,
> Clive D.W. Feather <cl...@on-the-train.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> from "someone else has broken our DS3" to "someone's broken a DS4".
>Just how big is a DS4? I assume it's bigger than a DS3?
Actually, I'm not even sure the term is used; I was just trying to
provide a simple explanation without drifting into "why does SDH1 (or
whatever) come after DS3 in order ?".
Richard Letts
Dave Smith <ad...@thundernet.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Richard Letts wrote in message <69ror6$4ku$1...@illuin.demon.co.uk>...
>> E2 8Mbps
>> E3 34Mbps
>> STM1 155.520Mbps
>> STM4 622.080Mbps
>> STM12 2.4Gbps
> OC12?
speed-wise yes. However the OC [optical carrier] interfaces are cell-based
interfaces for carrying ATM [asyncronous transfer mode] cells. A STM
[syncronous transfer mode] frame is what is used in [modern] telecoms when
lower-order circuits are multiplexed together.
Every ATM switch and I've used (Fore, cisco, newbridge) has a software
switch to select either OC3 or STM-1 based framing. You can run
leased-lines though an ATM circuit using AAL-1 [ATM Adaptation Layer -
1] however the overhead is huge, and the setup complex in comparison to
using STM directly.
RjL
Chris French
In article <PBfakLBH...@romana.davros.org>, "Clive D.W. Feather"
<cl...@on-the-train.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <980118.1...@hectortd.demon.co.uk>, Paul Copsey
><pa...@hectortd.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In <GUAIREB5...@romana.davros.org>,
>> Clive D.W. Feather <cl...@on-the-train.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> from "someone else has broken our DS3" to "someone's broken a DS4".
>>Just how big is a DS4? I assume it's bigger than a DS3?
>
>Actually, I'm not even sure the term is used; I was just trying to
>provide a simple explanation without drifting into "why does SDH1 (or
>whatever) come after DS3 in order ?".
>
These were replies to complaints about jargon????
--
Chris French
Tim Preston
David G. Bell (db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> More relevant to Demon, a year or two back they found out, the hard way,
> that their allegedly independent circuits to the US went down the same
> trunk between New York and Washington.
I'm sure they went over the same bridge [1], not sure if it was the same
actual trunk...
[1] The bridge in question was damaged/washed away in a flood.
--
Tim Preston. Demon Internet, Network Engineer: <t...@demon.net>
Malcolm Box
Richard Letts <ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Dave Smith <ad...@thundernet.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Richard Letts wrote in message <69ror6$4ku$1...@illuin.demon.co.uk>...
> >> E1 2Mbps
> >> E2 8Mbps
> >> E3 34Mbps
> >> STM1 155.520Mbps
> >> STM4 622.080Mbps
> >> STM12 2.4Gbps
> > Am I right in saying 155.520 is also known as OC3 and 622.080 is
> > OC12?
>
Yes
> speed-wise yes. However the OC [optical carrier] interfaces are cell-based
> interfaces for carrying ATM [asyncronous transfer mode] cells. A STM
> [syncronous transfer mode] frame is what is used in [modern] telecoms when
> lower-order circuits are multiplexed together.
Close, but no banana. The OC-x refers to the optical format of the
SONET stream. From a bits point of view, it's identical to STS-x, but
the STS-x specifies the electrical form of the signal, and OC-x the
optical form (so you can plug different manufacturer's equipment into
each end of a line and have it work.
SDH (Synchronous Digital Hierarchy) and SONET (Synchronous Optical
Network) are essentially the same, bar a few gratuitous changes to
bits in the transport overhead. SONET is ANSI (American) and SDH is
ISO (the rest of the world). Most any product made these days groks
both since the difference is so small.
Cells don't come into the SDH/SONET world at all until you talk about
the mappings that are defined to get ATM cells into the SONET
pipe. These specify how ATM is carried over SONET, but this is
transparent to all the SONET equipment which treats it as a byte
stream, until it reaches another ATM aware system.
Lower rate STS-x/STM-x can be multiplexed up into higher rate pipes
(STS-3 -> STS-12 -> STS-48 -> STS-192 -> ..). Cleverly, it is still
possible to add/drop sections within the larger pipes without
demultiplexing the entire lot - very useful when you want to drop an
STS-1 from the middle of an OC-192.
> Every ATM switch and I've used (Fore, cisco, newbridge) has a software
> switch to select either OC3 or STM-1 based framing. You can run
> leased-lines though an ATM circuit using AAL-1 [ATM Adaptation Layer -
> 1] however the overhead is huge, and the setup complex in comparison to
> using STM directly.
True, but not for the reasons you gave :-)
HTH, HAND
Malcolm
--
Malcolm Box mdf...@nortel.co.uk These are my opinions, not Nortel's
PGP Preferred, Keyprint:CC E2 4A 04 C4 1F 5B 98 DB 85 D7 03 25 F5 0A 54
"I'd love to go out with you, but I have to stay home and see if I snore."
Dave Smith
Malcolm Box wrote in message ...
>Richard Letts <ric...@illuin.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> > Am I right in saying 155.520 is also known as OC3 and 622.080 is
>> > OC12?
>Yes
Cool :)
>Lower rate STS-x/STM-x can be multiplexed up into higher rate pipes
>(STS-3 -> STS-12 -> STS-48 -> STS-192 -> ..). Cleverly, it is still
>possible to add/drop sections within the larger pipes without
>demultiplexing the entire lot - very useful when you want to drop an
>STS-1 from the middle of an OC-192.
Bloody hell -> thanks for that! Printed for later reference!
I'll know what to do when I want to inter-multiplex my transwarp atm
circuits with the flux capacitor now.! :-)
>Malcolm Box mdf...@nortel.co.uk These are my opinions, not Nortel's
Havent had to deal with ATM yet... shame... coz at that speed tiz rather
fast!
Cheers,
--
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| Dave Smith - Microsoft Certified Professional Level 3 |
| Team/FDDi - DES II Cracking Team - www.distributed.net |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
Peter McDermott
In article <885068464.23537.3...@news.demon.co.uk>,
"James Cracknell" <ja...@teletubbies-landguard.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Or you could just "appologise" as I read on status@gate. Or "we apologies".
>It's such bad use of English...we have to read this you know.
Um, judging by your subject line, this is about as clear a case
of the pot badmouthing the kettle that I've seen in some time.
>Also can't Demon create Lo-Call/free numbers for customer support?
Can't Demon return to the days when the only real support that they
offered was the demon.ip.support heirarchy?
Pretty please?
Tim Preston
Steve (St...@nospam.zaxxon.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> In article <69vvmf$aj8$1...@info.noc.demon.net>, Tim Preston
> <t...@demon.net> writes
> >David G. Bell (db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> >
> >> More relevant to Demon, a year or two back they found out, the hard way,
> >> that their allegedly independent circuits to the US went down the same
> >> trunk between New York and Washington.
> >
> >I'm sure they went over the same bridge [1], not sure if it was the same
> >actual trunk...
> >
> >[1] The bridge in question was damaged/washed away in a flood.
I can't easily find reference to this in my mail archive [1] so I can't be
sure, but a bridge is what I recall...
[1] It's rather large and most of it is compressed. my quick searches
brough up lots of 'hits' but nothhing relevant.
Mike Mann
On Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:32:41 -0000, "James Cracknell"
<ja...@teletubbies-landguard.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Also can't Demon create Lo-Call/free numbers for customer support?
Why on earth should they? What you're actually asking is for those
of us who've never sought telephone support from Demon to subsidise
even further those who do.
Providing telephone support is extremely expensive. Those who seek
and receive it at no extra cost, other than the cost of the phone
call, are getting a bargain.
Regards, Mike.
--
Home: mi...@kempston.demon.co.uk | kemp...@netcomuk.co.uk
PGP 2.6.2i public key available by mail from p...@kempston.demon.co.uk
James Cracknell
>If you don't understand the jargon should you be running your own
>internet node?
So you mean that everyone who subscribes to Demon should learn all the
jargon and technical details before they start?
That will bring in the customers!
James
James Cracknell
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
In article <885597897.1486.0...@news.demon.co.uk>
james@-news-landguard.demon.co.uk "James Cracknell" writes:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Using this "nodename" in your postings violates Demon's
AUP; you could lose your account. Use {R}'s nospam
instead: details in his .sig
[quoting someone to whom he does not ascribe an attribution]
> >If you don't understand the jargon should you be running your own
> >internet node?
>
> So you mean that everyone who subscribes to Demon should learn all the
> jargon and technical details before they start?
>
> That will bring in the customers!
Perhaps it would also have the effect of keeping out the fuckwits;
IMNSHO, the time for an Internet Driving Test is *long* overdue!
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} b...@dsl.co.uk
"The fundamental design flaws [of the products of the Micros^WSirius
Cybernetics Corporation] are completely hidden by their superficial
design flaws." SLATFATF 1983 --- wasn't Douglas Adams prescient?:-)
James Cracknell
> james@-news-landguard.demon.co.uk "James Cracknell" writes:
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Using this "nodename" in your postings violates Demon's
> AUP; you could lose your account. Use {R}'s nospam
> instead: details in his .sig
Just a sec. I have my posting host in my header and that is correct. I've
just read the AUP and it can be interpreted in a number of ways so I've
e-mailed support and asked them to clarify the situation (If nobody can do
this on here first). I am not the only user who does this to avoid spam.
I've flicked through a number of demon newsgroups and noticed several.
The spammers have caught onto this nospam business and often remove the word
in the address to mail junk.
Considering the details in the NNTP posting host is correct and my mailings
make no attempt to hide who I am and states in the header to remove -news-
to reply by e-mail.
Then again could said "nospam" user - http://www.nospam.demon.co.uk/
complain to Demon is someone abuses what he says?? The NNTP posting host
shows through everytime.
Regarding your comment about an internet driving test...I've been using the
net since the late 80's.....I don't have a computer degree nor read up on
technical jargon - though if someone explains succently what the jargon
means then it all becomes crystal clear.
My original comment was could we get everything in plain,
correct english so everyone can understand what the problem is and what is
being done to rectify it, plus if it's a telcoms problem, who is
responsible.
Trouble is standards continually evolve and new
ones emerge. The rate the internet has changed over the years you need to
keep on top WTF is going on. I've been used to JANET access (using UNIX and
not M$ Windoze) so things are different in the real world of paying for an
ISP.
J.
James Cracknell www.landguard.demon.co.uk
Paul Womar
James Cracknell <james@-news-landguard.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Just a sec. I have my posting host in my header and that is correct.
And you have a From address that is forged which is against the AUP.
> Then again could said "nospam" user - http://www.nospam.demon.co.uk/
> complain to Demon is someone abuses what he says?? The NNTP posting host
> shows through everytime.
Demon know very well that people are allowed to use it not that I
suspect for a moment that {R} would go back on his word, he probably
bands the off fuckwit from using it though.
Robert N Young
On Sat, 24 Jan 98 21:02:49 GMT, b...@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly})
wrote:
>IMNSHO, the time for an Internet Driving Test is *long* overdue!
>
Like Amateur Radio? According to certain elements the Radio Amateur Exam
hasn't excluded fuckwits from the Hobby. Having been a Professional
Driving Instructor, I can vouch for the fact that the
Driving'Test'hasn't managed to keep fuckwits off the road.
The Internet population has changed and will continue to change.
That is the nature of evolution.
--
Bob www.best.com/~youngrn
I don't *believe* it:-)
Ex Demonite and occasional supporter:-)
Andrew Johnson
In article <34cac019...@nntp1.ba.best.com>, Robert N Young
<you...@best.com> writes
>
>
>>IMNSHO, the time for an Internet Driving Test is *long* overdue!
>>
>Like Amateur Radio? According to certain elements the Radio Amateur Exam
>hasn't excluded fuckwits from the Hobby.
number of years (Cue G3***).
--
Andrew Johnson
Antispam address in use. Reply-to address will expire at end of following month.
Richard Clayton
In article <885689839.14504.0...@news.demon.co.uk>, James
Cracknell <james@-news-landguard.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>> james@-news-landguard.demon.co.uk "James Cracknell" writes:
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Using this "nodename" in your postings violates Demon's
>> AUP; you could lose your account. Use {R}'s nospam
>> instead: details in his .sig
>
>
>Just a sec. I have my posting host in my header and that is correct. I've
>just read the AUP and it can be interpreted in a number of ways so I've
>e-mailed support and asked them to clarify the situation (If nobody can do
>this on here first).
The AUP seems quite clear:
"It is abuse to post articles with headers which would mislead
"recipients into believing that some other system or user had created
"the articles. Demon's systems will add header lines to try and foil
"such forgery. Articles will still be treated as abuse even if Demon's
"actions make the attempted forgery apparent.
"It is abuse to post articles with headers which would cause responses
"to these articles, solicited or otherwise, to be delivered to unwilling
"third parties, or to inappropriate or unreasonable newsgroups. In
"particular, it is abuse to arrange for email replies to be delivered to
"an email address which you do not have permission to use.
I would say that you were in breach of the AUP since you are misleading
people into believing that -news-landguard.demon.co.uk posted the
articles since you have labelled them as "From" there. You've used
another host to inject them onto Usenet, but that's quite common.
As it happens that domain doesn't exist at 15:36 on this Sunday
afternoon. However who knows what the future will bring... I expect
someone who might somehow acquire it, would be unwilling to get email
replies to your article.
Some people :) arrange to use syntactically invalid domains, though many
of them have not read enough RFCs to do this really well :( A leading
"-" is invalid in some protocols, but not (IIRC) in others... Also of
course, some mailing systems will tolerate minor errors by applying the
Robustness Principle and so the invalidity will be missed.
Some people use non-existent top level domains - apparently arguing the
upcoming influx of .firm, .store &c will somehow not include their
particular mangling. Mail sent to these domains will not currently
arrive, but it will create an unnecessary load upon the top level name
servers :(
Most people stay within the AUP by using domains which they have
permission to use. This is to be strongly recommended.
Having said that you are in breach of the AUP, that is not to say that I
necessarily would view it as "serious abuse". However, it seems unwise
to rely on a question of degree rather than a question of fact when your
Usenet access might potentially be at stake.
I would hope that help...@demon.net will tell you something similar to
all of the above - but if they offer you more woolly advice :( [or say
'don't worry it's fine'] then I expect they will do it over a .sig which
does not commit it to being an Official Statement by Demon. You'll note
that I have done the same :)
The only Official Statement by Demon which relates to this matter which
I've ever seen is the AUP itself.
--
richard writing to inform and not as company policy
http://www.happyday.demon.co.uk/ reviews the DTI crypto proposals
"Assembly of Japanese bicycle require great peace of mind" quoted in ZAMM
James Cracknell
hmm well I've changed it...for now.
Just wait for the response
waiting
J.
--
James Cracknell www.landguard.demon.co.uk
Thomas Lee
>
>>If you don't understand the jargon should you be running your own
>>internet node?
>
>So you mean that everyone who subscribes to Demon should learn all the
>jargon and technical details before they start?
Before mouthing off at Demon for using normal telecoms terminology in
status messages, yes, you should make an attempt to learn the
terminology. And when, as can often happen for new users, you do not
know the terminology, you should ask what the terms mean, rather than
slagging off the guy who is attempting to inform.
Users will generally prefer plain english. But I'd favour quick
updates to status messages any day.
>That will bring in the customers!
If it stops some of the fuckwits, or at least minimises their numbers,
then perhaps it's a good idea. The cost, to Demon, of such people
phoning support, etc, possibly outweighs their contribution to the
bottom line.
THomas
David G. Bell
In article <GTeFcDA6...@g4rqk.demon.co.uk>
Ja...@g4rqk.demon.co.uk "Andrew Johnson" writes:
> In article <34cac019...@nntp1.ba.best.com>, Robert N Young
> <you...@best.com> writes
> >
> >
> >>IMNSHO, the time for an Internet Driving Test is *long* overdue!
> >>
> >Like Amateur Radio? According to certain elements the Radio Amateur Exam
> >hasn't excluded fuckwits from the Hobby.
> We have more than our fair share. And many have been in the hobby for a
> number of years (Cue G3***).
CB radio got pretty grim for fuckwits, before I sold off my gear a few
years ago. Yes, there were rules and regulations and licences, but I
only heard of one enforcement case locally, when the vehicle with the
linear amplifier in the boot was transmitting next to a police car...
Without effective enforcement, tests and rules are useless.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger..
Mike Pellatt
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 06:33:53 GMT, Robert N Young <you...@best.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Jan 98 21:02:49 GMT, b...@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly})
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>Like Amateur Radio? According to certain elements the Radio Amateur Exam
>hasn't excluded fuckwits from the Hobby.
Nope, it certainly hasn't. Strewth, I passed the RAE in 1969 IIRC,
and got the morse test a year or so later. Certainly 2m was full
of fuckwits back then - particularly when repeaters came along.
Me, I just played around on top band, and 4m and 10m on occasion.
Haven't been near the hobby for years now - after all, it's just
the Internet using another means of transport now :-) (and with
more restrictions on what can be said)
> Having been a Professional
>Driving Instructor, I can vouch for the fact that the
>Driving'Test'hasn't managed to keep fuckwits off the road.
Might be different if it had to be re-taken every 5 years or so.
>The Internet population has changed and will continue to change.
>That is the nature of evolution.
Come to that, so is the Internet itself.
--
Mike Pellatt
Mark Baker
In article <34cac019...@nntp1.ba.best.com>,
you...@best.com (Robert N Young) writes:
> hasn't excluded fuckwits from the Hobby. Having been a Professional
> Driving Instructor, I can vouch for the fact that the
> Driving'Test'hasn't managed to keep fuckwits off the road.
I don't think you need to have been a driving instructor to know that.
Robert N Young
On 26 Jan 1998 09:30:15 GMT, mi...@mpellatt.demon.co.uk (Mike Pellatt)
wrote:
>Haven't been near the hobby for years now - after all, it's just
>the Internet using another means of transport now :-) (and with
>more restrictions on what can be said)
Yep, same here.
>> Having been a Professional
>>Driving Instructor, I can vouch for the fact that the
>>Driving'Test'hasn't managed to keep fuckwits off the road.
>
>Might be different if it had to be re-taken every 5 years or so.
I doubt it. People tend to revert to old habits:-(
>
>>The Internet population has changed and will continue to change.
>>That is the nature of evolution.
>
>Come to that, so is the Internet itself.
>
Like all forms of communication.
Chris Lawrence
Re:<885746630.4799.0...@news.demon.co.uk>
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, James Cracknell wrote:
>hmm well I've changed it...for now.
Just a quick point...
>From: "James Cracknell" <ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>Organization: To reply remove "nospam" from the return address
To reply by email replace nospam with landguard
is better. Your current one isn't right, anyway (you're not
ja...@demon.co.uk and I am replying right now without changing
anything).
--
Chris Lawrence, Liverpool, UK - http://www.spacetime.demon.co.uk/
WARNING - you must replace 'news' with 'cml' to reply by email
Howard Fisher
In article <TtHV90AC...@turnpike.com>, Richard Clayton
<ric...@turnpike.com> wrote
>
>I would hope that help...@demon.net will tell you something similar to
>all of the above - but if they offer you more woolly advice :( [or say
>'don't worry it's fine'] then I expect they will do it over a .sig which
>does not commit it to being an Official Statement by Demon. You'll note
>that I have done the same :)
>
staff to *email* sent to Demon's *official support email address* would
be official company policy - however woolly or wrong it might be :-)
--
Howard Fisher
Howard Fisher
In article <34cb951c....@clues.com>, Thomas Lee <t...@psp.co.uk>
wrote
customer base downmarket by recruiting football supporters.
--
Howard Fisher
James Cracknell
> To reply by email replace nospam with landguard
OK OK Point taken :-) MS Outlook Explorer is wonderful. But hey when
you've been used to UNIX for the past 5 years and you end up on Windoze who
is complaining? :-)
Bill Gates wonderful man.
James
PS Spot the sarcasm
Oh and I got a reply from the helpdesk r...@demon.net
James Cracknell stated
>
> You get a great deal of spam from posting on the newsgroup and I have a
> question regarding the AUP
>
> Can you change your From and reply to address ie I use
>
> james@-news-landguard.demon.co.uk
>
> but the nntp posting host is always landguard.demon.co.uk.
>
> Is this OK.?
>
> I show an example below.
<snipped>
Hello,
Alot of people are doing things like this. The only real problem I can
see is if you change your hostname/domain to something which is
valid. This may then generate SPAM to someone else and it would
be a violation of our AUP.
Thomas Lee
>I would have thought this view contradicts Demon's attempt to move the
>customer base downmarket by recruiting football supporters.
Is that what the Fulham deal is all about. Hmm.
Mind you, can you imagine said supporters calling support:
Customer: Oi - you're F****** system is F***** Broken
Demon: May I have your node name pleae
Customer Oi - What the F*** do you F****** want that for pal?
Demon: May I have your node name please.
Customer Look pal, I'll shove F***** nodes up you ****
What the F*** is wrong with you....
etc...
Still, it would have little impact on demon.service - they're unlikely
to have enough brain cells to manage to use a computer anyway [1]...
Thomas
[1] and humble apologies to any Fulham supporter who still has his/her
brain cell intact.
Paul Copsey
In <34d18e98...@clues.com>,
Look, I know there's been a lot of criticism of the Fulham deal, but
there's no need to blank it out ;-)
Paul
--
Usenet '97 - The year of 12 Septembers.