Turnpike Questions
Paul McGuinness
<mar...@lanch.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <818162...@hi-tech.demon.co.uk>, Jonathan Bailey
><Jona...@hi-tech.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Hi
>>
>>We are curently looking for an easy to use off-line (and on-line)
>>mail reader. Although considering Eudora or Pegasus I'm not sure
>>I want the hassle of setting up another system. I struggled with
>>Winsock, Dics and Netscape.
>>
>>How much is included with Turnpike? I assume I still need Trumpet
>>Winsock and would like to carry on with Netscape however does Turnpike
>>provide FTP, Telnet etc? Many thanks.
>>
>Turnpike comes with its own winsock and scripts for most modems and is
>trivial to set up. It has its own FTP, finger and telnet programs,
>although if you want to use others it seems to work with the most common
>shareware offerings. Netscape works well with Turnpike but I got a web
>browser as well. I still use Netscape as it was set up with Cacheman,
>Grabnet and Webwacker all of which I find useful.
>There is a new version of Turnpike due out soon, though I can't see much
>that could be improved on.
>
>Just another satisfied customer.
Just visited the Turnpike stand at the Internet expo at Olympia and had
a look at the new interface. Apparently they have decided to abandon
their own web browser in favour of a version of Netscape 1.2. Also the
look of the main window has been changed - for the better IMHO - toolbar
with icons instead of words, more attention to the visual attractiveness
in general. As this was one of my reservations about it I am quite
pleased ( O.k.functionality comes first but they already got that
right).
I look forward to receiving my upgrade on Dec. 11th.( Maybe "boys with
toys" but why the hell not - one of life's little pleasures!)
Paul.
--
Paul McGuinness
Richard Clayton
<bra...@oskar.demon.co.uk> writes
[giving a list of improvements he would like to see in Turnpike]
>Better
>highlighting of quoted articles (doesn't seem to handle wrapped lines
>too well).
If you can suggest an algorithm which works then we will implement it!
What is being complained of is what happens when people post original
articles with very long lines (which is foolish). Then someone quotes
these long lines but also wraps them to improve the width....
>qwerty qwerty qweryt qwerty qwerty qwerty qwerty qwerty qwerty qwerty
asdfgh asdfgh
>uiop uiop uiop uiop
... like that. We (and I suspect (Free)Agent and other programs) only
show the lines starting ">" as quoted material and the "asdfgh" lines
come out as new material (ie they are shown in black instead of red).
The problem is that other people may respond to articles:
>qwerty qwerty qweryt qwerty qwerty qwerty qwerty qwerty qwerty qwerty
me too, I agree
>uiop uiop uiop uiop
and the middle line is indeed new material and *should* be in black.
Humans are pretty clever at telling these two cases apart, but it's
decidedly tricky IMHO to find a non-content parsing way of doing it
(unless of course one had the original article to consult... and that
would be complex to program, and not always possible).
Of course the original poster should have used shorter lines, of course
the followup should have had better quoting, and of course the "me too"
person should have used some white space to let their material stand out
more. However, if we only displayed articles which were written in
sensible ways then there'd be a lot less Usenet to see :(
Cross-posted from this local support newsgroup to news.software.readers
since this is of interest to a wider community - and who knows, maybe
tin or trn have some good ideas we could steal^H^H^H^H^H learn about.
--
richard Richard Clayton T U R N P I K E Ltd
tel: +44 1306 747747
"Assembly of Japanese bicycle require great peace of mind" quoted in ZAMM
John Hall
<Pa...@panton.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>Just visited the Turnpike stand at the Internet expo at Olympia and had
>a look at the new interface. Apparently they have decided to abandon
>their own web browser in favour of a version of Netscape 1.2. Also the
>look of the main window has been changed - for the better IMHO - toolbar
>with icons instead of words, more attention to the visual attractiveness
>in general. As this was one of my reservations about it I am quite
>pleased ( O.k.functionality comes first but they already got that
>right).
I must admit I prefer words, although no doubt I'll get used to the
icons in time. Icons are fine for something like "Cut", where there's a
natural icon to use, but many (most?) operations with Internet software
don't fall into that category IMO. (To be fair, I haven't actually seen
the new interface yet - maybe I'll be bowled over when I see it.)
--
I would have made a good Pope.
Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)
Brian Raven
Richard Clayton <ric...@turnpike.com> writes:
> In article <818234...@oskar.demon.co.uk>, Brian Raven
> <bra...@oskar.demon.co.uk> writes
> >highlighting of quoted articles (doesn't seem to handle wrapped lines
> >too well).
>
> If you can suggest an algorithm which works then we will implement it!
spring to mind
1. Allow highlighting to be switched off. I'm not convinced that this is
a particularly good idea in general, but the "zebra" effect of
alternating highlighted and unhightlighted lines can be a quite
distracting.
2. Have another highlighting colour that says "I think that this text is
quoted, but I am not sure". This could exacerbate the zebra effect.
3. Allow the user to direct the highlighting, by selecting part of an
article and hitting the "I believe this to be quoted text, please
re-format it for me" button. I think that this one could be useful. I
for one would appreciate the help in cleaning up badly wrapped quotes
before I quoted them.
Cheers,
Brian.
--
Brian Raven |
Phone: +44 (0)1707 269857 | 26C Homestead Road, Hatfield, Herts.,
email: bra...@oskar.demon.co.uk | AL10 0QW
Richard Clayton
<bra...@oskar.demon.co.uk> writes
>3. Allow the user to direct the highlighting, by selecting part of an
> article and hitting the "I believe this to be quoted text, please
> re-format it for me" button. I think that this one could be useful. I
> for one would appreciate the help in cleaning up badly wrapped quotes
> before I quoted them.
This is interesting. Of course some people consider it improper to
reformat other peoples text - certainly without saying you have done it,
and then it looks like an accusation and raises the temperature.
Dave
<Pa...@panton.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>Just visited the Turnpike stand at the Internet expo at Olympia and had
>a look at the new interface. Apparently they have decided to abandon
>their own web browser in favour of a version of Netscape 1.2.
This is a big downer.
If this is true I have paid 99ukp for a setup that is going to give me
Netscape 2.1 (which I already have) in place of the web browser which
Turnpike have been promising for months. This would be the straw that
breaks the camel's back as far as I'm concerned.
Turnpike is a very basic package and needs a lot of work to bring it up
to scratch, if this is the way they are going then I would be very wary
of taking it onboard.
Regards
Dave
--
("'\-/'").___..--''"-._
( 0_ 0 ) -. ( ).-.__.) Cyber Kitty mmeeeeeoooowwwwwww
(_Y_.)' ._ ) ._ . -..-' Cheers
_..--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Dave Roberts
(().-'' (().' ((!.-'
Doug Taylor
<ric...@turnpike.com> writes
>In article <818318...@oskar.demon.co.uk>, Brian Raven
><bra...@oskar.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>>3. Allow the user to direct the highlighting, by selecting part of an
>> article and hitting the "I believe this to be quoted text, please
>> re-format it for me" button. I think that this one could be useful. I
>> for one would appreciate the help in cleaning up badly wrapped quotes
>> before I quoted them.
>
This is a great idea - do it, Richard, please.
>This is interesting. Of course some people consider it improper to
>reformat other peoples text - certainly without saying you have done it,
>and then it looks like an accusation and raises the temperature.
>
Yes, well, IMHO, people who can't manage to get their lines to a
sensible length perhaps need accusing?
Regards,
Doug Taylor, Sue Taylor - satisfied Turnpike customers!
sta...@ivydene1.demon.co.uk do...@ivydene1.demon.co.uk
David CL Francis
<da...@darob.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>No Multi user functions. No OLE or linking of any kind. Looks primitive.
>Isn't fully compatible with Win95 although works well with it. Dosen't
>inform you of any mail received. Dosen't confirm news posts sent. Has a
>version of Netscape 1.22 that everyone already has. :-(
>
But - Turnpike has a Multiuser version surely? I purchased the single
user version, for a little more you can buy the multiuser version. It
can be installed on a network. At least those things are possible
according to the Manual! And mine flashes an icon on the screen when new
mail arrives. It is true there is a flaw in the display showing items
posted as far as news is concerned. However all posted articles are
filed automatically and the address book is automatic as well.
>
>But as I say the positive things are its stability and its ease of use
>when handling mail and news. I'm not knocking but I still find it a bit
>basic.
>
I find it great. It has no traceroute but one is promised shortly. What
other features do you think are missing? It already work well with
Netscape 1.2
Best wishes
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
David CL Francis E-Mail reply to <da...@dclf.demon.co.uk>
--------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Taylor
<da...@darob.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <alfbTCAo...@ivydene1.demon.co.uk>, Doug Taylor
><do...@ivydene1.demon.co.uk> writes
>>
>>I think that 'No Multi user functions' is rather too strong.
>Well there aren't any so why is it a bit strong?
If two people using completely independant mail facilities isn't a
'multi-user' function, what is it then? A lot of other packages can't
manage even this!
>My friend and his son share an internet account and wanted a multi user
>option so they could maintain privacy in their respective dealings on
>the net. He tried the evaluation version and found this was not possible
>so when he contacted Turnpike to purchase the full version they said
>they would send him a beta multi user version which he could not get to
>work and eventually gave up. If there is anyone out there who has had
>any success with it let me know and I'll put him in touch.
Agreed about the privacy - but that in itself does not disqualify the
attribution 'multi-user' (IMHO).
[snip]
>Well it may not be for you but is a disadvantage for me. I have to post
>a daily table of figures to a newsgroup and would like to create these
>on a spreadsheet and cut and paste them into Turnpike. This has proved
>impossible as there is no paste special facility on Turnpike. OLE would
>have been a luxury but paste special is a basic function which I miss in
>Turnpike. When I asked Richard Clayton about the confirmation of news
>posting he dismissed it saying it was not a priority.
I often export tables from Excel - the quick workaround is to copy the
relevant table (containing formulae) and Paste Special, values only,
into a spare space in the workbook within Excel. This can be immediately
cut and is then on the clipboard ready to paste straight into Turnpike
(or any other text-based app). It only takes a couple of extra
keystrokes so I don't usually think about it as a disadvantage.
Hope this helps :-)
[snip]
>I agree that its superior to the above packages and I for one would not
>be without it but I still say its a bit basic considering the above are
>free. Some of the other things you mention that don't work under Win95 I
>find irritating but when I contacted Richard Clayton about it he seemed
>less than enthusiastic about producing a Win95 version and indicated
>that the web browser was a priority. That now turns out to be Netscape
>although he slagged this off and said his web browser would be superior.
>As I have a finished version of Netscape 1.2 on my system at the moment
>I am not exactly excited about getting another when I was expecting a
>super duper Turnpike browser. As for the winsock I don't use it as I use
>the one which comes with Win95.
Yeah and that was a pain to set up, mainly because I couldn't get the
FAQ etc. while demon ftp was down :-( and I had to learn the Win95 help
system to work out how to install & setup the scripting. All those hours
on Trumpet came in handy after all :-)
Perhaps Richard will turn his attention to a 32-bit Turnpike, now that
he's no longer busy developing a Netscape rival? Or maybe he's working
on improving Netscape :-)?
>Still it would be wrong of me to judge the new package until I've tried
>it and hopefully it will be just as stable but basic :-)
OTOH, if you know of another commercial package that's less 'basic' than
Turnpike, let me know - I could always take out another mortgage !
Regards,
Doug Taylor, Sue Taylor: Tipton, West Midlands +44 121-530 1040
sta...@ivydene1.demon.co.uk do...@ivydene1.demon.co.uk
John Chapple
<da...@darob.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>If this is true I have paid 99ukp for a setup that is going to give me
>Netscape 2.1 (which I already have) in place of the web browser which
>Turnpike have been promising for months. This would be the straw that
>breaks the camel's back as far as I'm concerned.
>
>Turnpike is a very basic package and needs a lot of work to bring it up
>to scratch, if this is the way they are going then I would be very wary
>of taking it onboard.
good. Though I regret the passsing of their 'own' browser, as it seemed to be simpler to
use, when you could get it to work
But I really can't understand why you consider it such a BASIC package, when you
compare it to the chaos of Diswin (Demon users):-), email threading is very good IMHO,
and at least everything that is in there, is registered. Also its winsock does seem to be very
stable.
John Chapple J...@ch-w.demon.co.uk
'There are too many BRIGHT lights going out' Phone (+44) 01233 712868
Dave Powers Fax (+44) 01233 713698
Dave
<do...@ivydene1.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>I think that 'No Multi user functions' is rather too strong.
Well there aren't any so why is it a bit strong?
>
>OTOH, Turnpike sells a multi-user version, so it may not be in their
>interests to give full multi-user capability to folks using the single-
>user version :-).
I recommended Turnpike to a friend of mine who was having trouble with
the Demon/windis stuff. I had given up on this a while ago and had been
pleased with the way Turnpike performed having found it on the whole
stable. The only time I had trouble was when I upgraded to version 1.08
which was a diaster and trashed my newsbase and was rapidly replaced by
1.09 which has performed faultlessly.
My friend and his son share an internet account and wanted a multi user
option so they could maintain privacy in their respective dealings on
the net. He tried the evaluation version and found this was not possible
so when he contacted Turnpike to purchase the full version they said
they would send him a beta multi user version which he could not get to
work and eventually gave up. If there is anyone out there who has had
any success with it let me know and I'll put him in touch.
>
>I agree about the OLE - although cut/paste and import/export work very
>well, so no real problem. It is, as you say, a 'bug' (?) that you get
>confirmation of successful email posting but not of news posting in the
>on-line Connect window. Perhaps we should be asking for this to be
>fixed.
Well it may not be for you but is a disadvantage for me. I have to post
a daily table of figures to a newsgroup and would like to create these
on a spreadsheet and cut and paste them into Turnpike. This has proved
impossible as there is no paste special facility on Turnpike. OLE would
have been a luxury but paste special is a basic function which I miss in
Turnpike. When I asked Richard Clayton about the confirmation of news
posting he dismissed it saying it was not a priority.
>
>To sum up, I've used Windis/Newswin, Eudora, Pegasus and Free Agent in
>the past. Each of them were nice in their own way, but IMHO, none
>matches the overall features that I like in Turnpike - excellent coding
>& decoding (UUE and MIME), treating mailing lists as newsgroups and
>optimal tuning of its own winsock. I've spent hours in the past tuning
>Trumpet and am glad to be rid of it.
I agree that its superior to the above packages and I for one would not
be without it but I still say its a bit basic considering the above are
free. Some of the other things you mention that don't work under Win95 I
find irritating but when I contacted Richard Clayton about it he seemed
less than enthusiastic about producing a Win95 version and indicated
that the web browser was a priority. That now turns out to be Netscape
although he slagged this off and said his web browser would be superior.
As I have a finished version of Netscape 1.2 on my system at the moment
I am not exactly excited about getting another when I was expecting a
super duper Turnpike browser. As for the winsock I don't use it as I use
the one which comes with Win95.
Still it would be wrong of me to judge the new package until I've tried
it and hopefully it will be just as stable but basic :-)
Regards
Dave
(almost happy Turnpike user!)
David CL Francis
>
>Well it may not be for you but is a disadvantage for me. I have to post
>a daily table of figures to a newsgroup and would like to create these
>on a spreadsheet and cut and paste them into Turnpike. This has proved
>impossible as there is no paste special facility on Turnpike. OLE would
>have been a luxury but paste special is a basic function which I miss in
>Turnpike. When I asked Richard Clayton about the confirmation of news
>posting he dismissed it saying it was not a priority.
>
spreadsheet. I opened Turnpike started an E-Mail and pasted the
spreadsheet with no problem. It may not be OLE but it works. The only
problem is the 60 character width which Turnpike applies. However if you
slice the Spreadsheet to keep it narrow it seems to work fine. What did
you expect Paste Special to do for you as it does different things in
different Windows applications anyway?
But pasting complex documents is always going to be a problem in an
ASCII limited system surely? Except for News groups the answer is MIME
which Turnpike supports very well IMHO.
Here is a small piece of spreadsheet: Headings might be a problem if
they are not in every column.
42 19 14 2 24 36 45 49
26 29 30 7 5 45 9 15
5 24 33 9 26 44 47 44
48 9 45 8 48 7 14 19
16 47 26 6 8 37 4 13
15 23 16 41 38 18 16 47
Mike Whittome
<jjac...@jjackson.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>Don't wait at the mailbox...I visited the stand on Thurs and quite liked
>what I saw, but, the message when asked when the next version would be
>sent out was "When the manuals for Netscape have been printed", in a
>WEEK OR TWO.
I was not given this sad piece of news on my visit to the stand.
Has Richard taken a week's Christmas Shopping leave? I don't think he
has ever been so quiet, despite an astounding amount reaction to this
topic!
--
Mike Whittome 'All generalizations are dangerous, even this one.'
Windling Enterprise Dumas.
Alan Jackson
<ric...@turnpike.com> writes
>In article <SH0a7CAF...@windling.demon.co.uk>, Mike Whittome
><mi...@windling.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>>>Don't wait at the mailbox...I visited the stand on Thurs and quite liked
>>>what I saw, but, the message when asked when the next version would be
>>>sent out was "When the manuals for Netscape have been printed", in a
>>>WEEK OR TWO.
>
>registered copy will give you a warm glow inside, having the manuals is
>a real plus, but one that takes more organization than it should :(
>especially at this time of year.
>
>As soon as we have exact timescales for the upgrades of course we will
>announce them, but since, naturally, everyone tried to be as informative
>as they could at the show, the slight variations in what people were
>told reflect the lack of suitable tablets of stone to consult. I'm very
>sorry if this has led to unnecessary confusion. We are clarifying things
>as fast as we can.
>
I take your point, but on the same stand within 5 minutes of each other
I was given 2 stories, Elisa said that I would have the upgrade next
(this) week, and the guy doing the online demonstrations was the person
that eventualy told me that there would be a delay in the upgrades
coming out, and that Elisa, on the far side of the stand, was the person
who would be advising of the 'delay'. BTW I don't actually use Netscape
so that is a low priority on my part, any warm glows that I get have
little to do with Netscape. I use my other ISP and Explorer for WEB and
FTP access and if as I was advised (also at the Expo) that you have
included my other ISP (thenet.co.uk) in the upgrade then Demon will
start to take a back seat, for when Frontier (thenet) get their new news
server operational and they provide the speed of connection for News
that I get from them on Web and FTP access then I am afraid that Demon
have had it.
Can you give you give me, and other users an inclination as to what we
can expect in the future.....the reason that I ask is that while I was
at the stand another user was asking questions about various things
amongst which were (1) FTP, this was generally acknowledged to be the
weak item in Turnpike, but was of LOW priority for rewrite (2) 32Bit,
this was regarded as LOW priority as there wasn't a sufficiently large
32bit user base now and for some time to come. If these items are of low
priority can you inform as to what are regarded as high priority?
PS I am pleased that you enjoyed your time off :^{)
--
************************************************************************
* Regds Alan * Always Remember Tomorrow *
************************************ Is the First day Of The *
*EMAIL to Al...@jjackson.demon.co.uk* Rest of Your Life *
************************************************************************
Richard Clayton
<da...@dclf.demon.co.uk> writes
> I opened Turnpike started an E-Mail and pasted the
>spreadsheet with no problem. It may not be OLE but it works. The only
>problem is the 60 character width which Turnpike applies.
You can adjust the margin if you wish... though this currently affects
the entire document :( Bear in mind that the recipient may only have a
limited width screen though. You will get a warning which you must
override if you post long lines.
John Chapple
<ric...@turnpike.com> writes
>[Snipped comments re Turnpike]
Good, then
>In article <pt4tAAAs...@ch-w.demon.co.uk>, John Chapple <jc@ch-
>w.demon.co.uk> writes
>However, we do allow our users to change things when appropriate, though
>we try to hold their hands whenever we can :) When you upgrade to a
>later version than 1.06, just as an example, we will put up a warning
>cautioning you that the font/margins you have chosen mean that you are
>generating articles with lines longer than 80 characters which will wrap
>badly when quoted :(
Whoops, I consider myself, ever so gently, admonished!!!