Healthcare Hard to Set Up...Re: The Need for Denial Re: third term of the bush-cheney??? Screw you Johny come lately

[Sharon Tipton]

Simply expand Medicare for all...
The Insurance Lobby can sit this one out and let the people have the $ instead of profits for denying claims.

Creating a partially privatized, partly public health care system will probably be impossible. I guess that's what happens when you try to please too many lobbyists.

Anyway, Big Pharma (which funds medical schools) trains doctors to use drugs instead of healing disciplines. We need neighborhood doctors like they have in Cuba...See, sorry, simplistic again..I'll bow out of here for a while...:-) sharon

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 6:52 PM, jacqueline klein <j.kle...@gmail.com> wrote:

there is a lot wrong with the picture....but  what appears to be increasingly wrong with the picture, is the expectation that because you voted for him, he was going to be able to pass everything with a finger-snap in congress.

sadly, it just does not work that way.

    it is not so easy to get legislation through congress. you still need the votes, and health care, like everything else, ultimately is going to land there.

     so we can work for what we are hoping for....and there is power in a unified voice...but there are a lot of disparate voices and special interests.

so for the issues that are most important to us, we have to keep working.

     there is a lot more to the complexities of revamping the entire health care system in a severely broken economy than just telling horror stories of our visits to the doctor. 

health care reform encompasses huge sectors of the economy.

and there will be compromises.

     

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Sharon Tipton <sharon...@gmail.com> wrote:

...to have  succumbed to the $ on the Hill!

See the partial list of broken promises already noted...

The simplistic idea that all Republicans are wrong and all Democrats are in the right has hurt our grassroots leaders' ability to see beyond the man to the welfare of all, despite party. Plainly, whatever Obama is, his administration is being criticized by the left not because they want to. But because something is wrong with this picture.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Sharon Tipton <sharon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Having worked so long for the Democrats is no reason not to leave them. They are clearly bought and sold by the lobbyists for war insuance oil etc. Yes, even Obama APPEARS

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Gary Coutin <gmcout...@yahoo.com> wrote:

there are serious matters at hand, and this is no time for irrational statements like that.  

 

Jackie K.  You are the bomb.   Keep it up.  

 

gmc

---

From: jacqueline klein <j.kle...@gmail.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 2:53:00 PM
Subject: Re: Voting is crap

it is absolutely ridiculous to say that this first term of obama looks like a third term of the bush-cheney administration.

please spare us the hyperbole. there are serious matters at hand, and this is no time for irrational statements like that.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Gary Coutin <gmcout...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Bullshit.   Voting is crap unless you are willing to put behind it your "lives, your fortunes, and your sacred honor."  

 

gmc

---

From: "Ksh...@aol.com" <Ksh...@aol.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 2:59:46 PM
Subject: Re: Kaffee-Klatch July 4th and 11th

At best Sarah Palin has been a distraction.  I think I will save my real celebration for the time when Obama actually upholds his campaign promises.  Just off the top of my head.

1) Whatever happened to ending the war in Iraq
2) Getting rid of the patriot act and FISA bills
3) Keeping lobbyists out of his administration

4) Getting rid of NAFTA

Where is the change we all voted for.  I hope this isn't sacrilegious to mention this to the group but it seems an awful lot like we got the third term of Bush we were hoping to avoid.

 

 

---

It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place where pets rule!

[jacqueline klein]

sorry...but it is not going to be that easy, as to simply say expand medicare for all.

the situation does not reduce down to three paragraphs or one plan....

some want other options, and it is also going to be very difficult to get a totally radicalized plan passed when you need the votes.

     there are going to be compromises. that will be the reality of health care reform, as it is the reality of our withdrawal from iraq and a myriad of other issues....because we live in a democracy, where all people do not think alike, want the same things....and there are inherent problems of greed and corruption bedeviling the system.

     in the meantime, there is a great deal of information available....interviews, explanations and serious discussion. this is not a simplistic discussion.

it would be easy if it were just about sharing our stories, but it is a much deeper subject than that. 

www.ezraklein.com

if you want to follow health care reform on a daily basis, most recent interviews with bernie sanders and other leaders of the single payer, public plan, a place to leave comments, where your thoughts can be visible to those that will be casting the eventual votes on health care reform and increase your knowledge on the serious plans that are being floated, and also are going to be adapted.... that is a good place to start.

i am sorry, but the discussion does not break down in a simplistic way.

it is a much more complex topic that that. there are myriad voices on health care, and not everyone is thinking the same way, though it sometimes may feel like that.

best wishes,

jacqueline

[jacqueline klein]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/05/AR2009070502770.html?hpid=topnews

stay current and informed with actual facts....we have to keep working for change we can believe in!

[Sharon Tipton]

Thanks Jacqueine, but per your link, this is a good place to start:

The tactic is so widespread that three of every four major health-care firms have at least one former insider on their lobbying payrolls, according to The Washington Post's analysis.

Nearly half of the insiders previously worked for the key committees and lawmakers, including  Sens. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) and  Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa), debating whether to adopt a public insurance option opposed by major industry groups. At least 10 others have been members of Congress, such as former House majority leaders Richard K. Armey (R-Tex.) and Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.), both of whom represent a New Jersey pharmaceutical firm.

The hirings are part of a record-breaking influence campaign by the health-care industry, which is spending more than $1.4 million a day on lobbying in the current fight, according to disclosure records. And even in a city where lobbying is a part of life, the scale of the effort has drawn attention. For example, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) doubled its spending to nearly $7 million in the first quarter of 2009, followed by Pfizer, with more than $6 million.

Jacqueline, it must not be so complicated that we can't see, plainly, that LOBBYISTS AND SPECIAL INTERESTS are sapping the money out of any program we can develop. Big Pharma and Insurance /Financial Insurance lobbyists will MAKE A PROFIT, as IF THEY ARE ENTITLED TO IT. Jacqueline, they are not! Not when it takes resources away from taxpayers.

Can we agree that Lobbyists and Special Interests are the number one problem facing not only the health care issue, but almost all others as well (MICC, Big Agro, etc.)?

If we take care of the elephant in the room, believe, the rest will be easier (though still complicated, I know). If our moral compass stays focused (not taking bribes nor allowing Congress to take lobby money) and our civil servants don't run for office because they want to get rich by sell favors (a la Blagoyavitch) and getting contracts for their favorite weapons manufacturer (on which they happen to be on the board!)

Remember, greed wouldn't be the astronomical problem it is now, had we not passed legislation allowing corporations to have the rights of an individual (which has a conscience, unlike a corporation, which is driven by greed.)

We didn't stop it, then, it's gained momentum, and here we are.

It has to stop sometime. Bureaucracy is no reason not to DO THE RIGHT THING!

Sharon T.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:49 AM, jacqueline klein <j.kle...@gmail.com> wrote:

[jacqueline klein]

i am glad that you looked at my link. thank you, sharon:-)

i agree with all that you say about special interests, and that is why i sent you that at two in the morning. because i think about all of these things too:-)

it is just that unless an informed constituency aggregates and votes differently, baucus

and grassley are not going to go away next month... and not before the final votes on the first, incremental round of reforms coming soon. neither are the mega-insurance companies and the pharma companies.

    also, there is real division, and desire for several health care options, which there will be.

my only point was/is....that we need to keep working very hard, and patiently for things we believe in. and i am not expecting, realistically, to see all that i am hoping for, happen in the next six months. but i wont stop working and hoping for what i believe in.

    i think that a public plan will definitely be an option. will i choose that plan for myself if there are other options? no.

do i think that it needs to be an option? absolutely.

i dont care for that model of health care. it doesnt have the autonomy that i want, and the freedom to manage my own health care in the way i want. but i feel that the choice absolutely needs to be there. 

    and of course, day after day, like everyone else, my friends and neighbors are falling through the cracks of the uninsured, and i struggle to pay my exorbitant premium.

the numbers of the uninsured are mushrooming, especially as more and more people lose medical care, and become sicker as a result of that.

    i didnt think that in his first six months, obama would bring home every last troop from iraq, nor did i think he would completely transform the health care model completely in six months,

or put our shattered economy back on track in a year, or stop fix our broken infrastructure overnight, have a middle-east peace accord, or nuclear disarmament in north korea.

     i am just trying to work for good things, accept the fact that nothing is going to be perfect, that change happens gradually, most of the time, and i havent stopped believing in his ability and skills at getting things done:-)

    and thank you for your engagement and dialogue. it is a good thing!

[jacla...@aol.com]

Sharon:
You're right : the corruption is plain for all to see despite the smoke and mirrors of apologists. Lobbyists and payments made by the for profit private insurance industry(and Big Pharma) to anyone. on committees for health care reform create an obvious conflict of interest. We see the result in the details that are coming out on the proposed health care "reform": complicated measures to ensure those working do not have the option of a public plan,i.e, protect the extortionate, unnecessary, middleman- the private insurance companies- at any cost. Per Baucus, single payer, for which there is enormous support, was not even "on the table" and single payer advocates at a Baucus committee meeting were silenced and arrested.

I agree with you that we need a third party as the promised change has turned out to be more of the same: both a disappointment and a disgrace after a such a campaign of "hope and change", and the pretense of listening to the people.
Joyce A.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

---

From: Sharon Tipton
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 03:24:56 -0700
To: <democrat...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Healthcare Hard to Set Up...Re: The Need for Denial Re: third term of the bush-cheney??? Screw you Johny come lately

[jacla...@aol.com]

I was interested in your comment on a proposed public option. I have not seen details, but if your comment portends what the public plan will be-a very much second rate option - then we will have been abysmally served. If the public option is to be of any real value it should offer more freedom of choice than the current private plans: available nationwide and not restricted to geographic areas; the choice of any health care provider; and, importantly, not linked to a specific employer. It should offer the opportunity of continuity of care, and also eliminate the fragmentary billing process that can extend for years following a surgery or illness. These are basic characteristics of public plans implemented in other industrialized nations at half or less than we pay in the U.S. for the current for profit " system.

Joyce A.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

---

From: jacqueline klein
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 05:52:35 -0700

To: <democrat...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Healthcare Hard to Set Up...Re: The Need for Denial Re: third term of the bush-cheney??? Screw you Johny come lately

[jacqueline klein]

sharon....you might like to read "is barack obama really mad at the people pushing his agenda."

an article this morning, regarding obama's admonition yesterday to liberal health care advocacies. the comments will interest you also, as they resonate your thoughts to some degree.

www.ezraklein.com