Kaffee-Klatch July 4th and 11th

[SharonToji]

Dear Friends:

Due to the 4th holiday and a visit from my family from Hawaii, I will
not be able to attend the Kaffee-Klatch on the 4th or the 11th. I am
doubtful about anyone showing up on the 4th. I know that Dr Bill and
some others are going to attend a Single Payer march in Los Angeles on
the 11th. If someone will vounteer to facilitate the group on the
11th, that would be great. Last Saturday, there were only 3 of us, and
Dr Bill had to leave. He had come only to tell us about the march.

I don't want to stop the flow of having these every Saturday, and I
know summer may be a problem. There will be another weekend in July
when I have to be out of town as well. I hope those of you who can
will keep the conversation going!

We have a huge problem here in California, as I realize you all know.
The governor should not be allowed to get away with accusing the
Democrats in the legislature of failure to respond and act. Yes, I'm
sure it's true that there are long term reforms that are needed, but
they can't be done and done correctly in 2 or 3 days. The whole state
will suffer from this. I believe the middle class, even comfortable
people in Irvine, may begin to see the effects. Please do what you can
by calling the governor, calling the Republicans in the legislature,
and writing letters to the editor.

We also have the health care and the climate change bills before
congress. We need to put on the pressure and keep it on. Dianne
Feinstein is a good target on health care. The bill from the House
looks fairly good, with a strong public option, so it's the Senate
that is the possible problem. Bernie Sanders wants us to get every
member of the Democratic Caucus to allow the health care plan to come
to the full floor. Let's help him out, because it will help us out in
the end!

The climate change bill from the House is weak, and the Senate should
strengthen it, but pessimists say they won't, or may weaken it
further. Again, let's all do what we can, and that includes talking to
our neighbors -- getting a dialogue going. Most people don't watch any
real news on TV (the few times it's available), and many fewer read
the excellent in-depth articles in both the Los Angeles and New York
Times, or the Washington Post. Since these papers often cater to the
conservative view by having the first paragraph and headline be
somewhat misleading, you have to read the whole article, where you can
begin to sift through the facts. There are also some excellent
editorials in these papers, as well as in on-line publications such as
Slate. It takes time and thought to really delve in. Those of us who
do, either as I do late at night or early in the morning, or while
reading as a passenger in the car, have an obligation to share our
knowledge!

Thanks for your activism. I'll see you in a couple of weeks, I hope!

Sharon Toji

[cham...@earthlink.net]

Sharon,

I will carry on at the Kaffee Klatch on the 4th.

Please make the announcement that there will be a group on the 4th.

The same applies for the 11th.

I agree that it would be important to have consistency for the group.

Please confirm ASAP - thank you.

Don

[Sharon Toji]

I'm at work but will try to inform people that someone will be there.
thanks
sharon

[Dr Bill Honigman]

Hey all, I'll be there tomorrow, but not next week as mentioned.  Our work definitely continues . . . Dr B

[Dr Bill Honigman]

PS.  Another great source for alternative info is the PDA home page ( www.pdamerica.org ) with up to 6 or 8 terrific articles--from Slate, Huff Post, Truthout, CommonDreams, etc.) there every day.  :-)

[Joel Sassone]

Palin's resigning! Bwahahahahahahahaaa!!!

 

http://tinyurl.com/m4y5xu

 

Sorry, just had to say that.

 

Joel

 

---

<br

[Dr Bill Honigman]

We do not rejoice at the downfall of others . . . the hell we don't!   ;-)

[Joel Sassone]

Is this good or bad for Democrats though? Gonna have to do some political calculus to figure this one out...

Ah man, I need a drink to toast this development...

 

<br

[Dr Bill Honigman]

Good and bad . . . always. ;-)

[Ksh...@aol.com]

At best Sarah Palin has been a distraction.  I think I will save my real celebration for the time when Obama actually upholds his campaign promises.  Just off the top of my head.

1) Whatever happened to ending the war in Iraq
2) Getting rid of the patriot act and FISA bills
3) Keeping lobbyists out of his administration

4) Getting rid of NAFTA

Where is the change we all voted for.  I hope this isn't sacrilegious to mention this to the group but it seems an awful lot like we got the third term of Bush we were hoping to avoid.

 

 

---

It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place where pets rule!

[Gary Coutin]

Bullshit.   Voting is crap unless you are willing to put behind it your "lives, your fortunes, and your sacred honor."  

 

gmc

---

From: "Ksh...@aol.com" <Ksh...@aol.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 3, 2009 2:59:46 PM

Subject: Re: Kaffee-Klatch July 4th and 11th

[Gary Coutin]

Dr Bill

 

7/4 or 7/11?

 

What time on the 11th? 

 

I've been working with the Governor to balance the budget.   It turns out for the last three years.   But he has accepted my proposal on the Hastings Trust.   Or nearly so.   I'll tell you about it.  

 

gmc

[jacqueline klein]

president obama is just a human being, who has been in office for a relatively short period of time, inheriting malfeasance, greed and corruption from the clinton and bush administrations...over a decade of deregulation and neglect.

   stop expecting miracles overnight. 

americans have a bad habit of demanding instant gratification and silver bullets.

those days are so over.

    he has been in office for a short time.

when a near-fatally ill patient is brought into the e.r. do you blame the e.r. doctor for not fixing him immediately????

    if you thought that obama was going to fix this near-completely broken system in six months, you were deluding yourself.

    we are making a lot of progress. appreciate that you have obama in office.

we are lucky to have him.

the country is in a state of disaster. do what you can to help and stop expecting miracles overnight. patience and hard work.

[jacqueline klein]

it is absolutely ridiculous to say that this first term of obama looks like a third term of the bush-cheney administration.

please spare us the hyperbole. there are serious matters at hand, and this is no time for irrational statements like that.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Gary Coutin <gmcout...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Gary Coutin]

Bravo.   My sentiments exactly.  

 

That TARP was CRAP.   Just a last minute swindle from the swindlers who created the crisis in the first place.  

 

TARP was another example of Disaster Capitalism.   The same stuff as 9/11, Katrina, no-bid contracts, etc.  

 

But look at the brighter side.   The government now owns the banking system.   The next step is for the people to take over the government.  Of the people, by the people and for the people.  

 

gmc

---

From: jacqueline klein <j.kle...@gmail.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 2:51:03 PM
Subject: Re: Voting is crap

[Gary Coutin]

there are serious matters at hand, and this is no time for irrational statements like that.  

 

Jackie K.  You are the bomb.   Keep it up.  

 

gmc

---

From: jacqueline klein <j.kle...@gmail.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 2:53:00 PM

Subject: Re: Voting is crap

[Gary Coutin]

I still don't know what time on 7/11?

 

You know these  third term Bush people are defeatist at a minimum, but I suspect that are fifth columnist seeking to spread disssension in the people's ranks so that we can't dump oil for solar/wind or instituted universal health care.  

 

gmc  

 

NO REPUBLICANS.  

---

From: Gary Coutin <gmcout...@yahoo.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 2:24:01 PM
Subject: What time on the 11th?

[Sharon Tipton]

Voting is crap because we aren't given an honest choice of candidates. The two party monopoly hijacked the Commission on Presidential Debates from the vehemently non-partisan League of Women Voters. Since then, the American people have had less choice than ever as the candidates most lobbyists like (Obama received much of his campaign funding from the financial industry) are the ones the CPD allow.

Obama a human being? Yes, one who's first job was working for Henry Kissinger. Who went to the same school of the infamous Prof. Milton Freedman (who took the new idea of consumerism and help make consumers out of citizens), who, as a Senator was pro- single Payer, but has become more "pragmatic" and has said basically said it was off the table.

He IS human, but what's worse, j/k, is that he is politician! The temptations and threats at level are incredible, I'm sure. He is human, like King David, who can succumb to temptation. And he has the whole world in his hands so to speak. that's why we have to watch him and CUT NO SLACK at this critical time in the history of wo/man.

PEACE Y'ALL,
SHARON

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Gary Coutin <gmcout...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[jacqueline klein]

good lord.

[Sharon Tipton]

I know, the truth is scary, huh? sorry...just the messenger, don't shoot me! :-)

[jacqueline klein]

the scary truth is that we live in complex times and compromises are a fact of life... in a family, in the workplace, in a community and in our country.

    the truth is that we live in an imperfect world, and without a massive revolution, things take time. change in behavior, in politics, in most things, happens in a phase transition and usually is incremental. you know, a billion snowflakes make a blizzard....not one snowflake.

things take time, hard work and patience....that is generally what makes miracles happen.

i am very grateful that obama is our president....i believe he is doing the best he can, under the most complicated circumstances imagineable.

i am willing to work for what i believe in as an individual, and have patience with the outcomes of things.

[Sharon Tipton]

You are awesome Jacqueline! Yes, I believe we need a revolution, a turning away from corporatism, and a return to our Constitution. If we vow to uphold it w/o fail, and hold our political leaders ESPECIALLY ACCOUNTABLE then our country can go forward. Let them slip on this, and we don't really have anything for a government by the corporation, for the corporations. Hope we can work together to turn it around!

Sharon

[jacqueline klein]

:-)

as trying as these times are, we could possibly have ended up with a mccain/palin presidency.

whatever the outcome will be, many of us are working hard in our communities, staying politically active, volunteering, doing the best that we can to affect change and alleviate suffering.

    barack obama still has the pressures of working within a very broken and corrupted system. i have faith in him. 

[Dr Bill Honigman]

9:30A, corner of La Cienega and 3rd in West LA, Sat 7/11

 

thanks.

 

[Sharon Tipton]

If we're doing the same thing with the same bad results, then we need refocus.

The problem is we're going to get whomever THEY want us to have, unless we have open debates.


Some Rightist friends warned that Obama would be worse than McCain. The seriousness of global bankruptcy kinda makes me wonder if they were right.....

sharon

[Gary Coutin]

You don't get it.   If you are not all in then you won't get the changes we want and need.   If you think that the world is going to change if you pull a lever, then I am sorry but you are delusional.   Read the Declaration of Independence (and it is the 4th of July).   We pledge our lives and fortunes and sacred honor.  

 

What are you pledging?

 

gmc

---

From: Sharon Tipton <sharon...@gmail.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 5:14:37 PM

Subject: Re: Voting is crap

[Gary Coutin]

Under the Slave holder's Constitution of 1787 Obama is not a human being.   The black race, free or slave, has no rights a white man is bound to respect.   The Supreme Court said so in 1857 in a case called Dred Scott.   That case has never been overturned by the Supreme Court.  

 

gmc

---

From: jacqueline klein <j.kle...@gmail.com>

To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 5:17:40 PM

Subject: Re: Voting is crap

[Gary Coutin]

You don't know what you are taling about.   This is a constitutional question bigger than the nickel and dime stuff you are embedded in.

 

gmc

---

From: Sharon Tipton <sharon...@gmail.com>

To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 5:19:35 PM

Subject: Re: Voting is crap

[Gary Coutin]

jk  I like the way you think.

 

gmc

---

From: jacqueline klein <j.kle...@gmail.com>

To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 5:28:14 PM

Subject: Re: Voting is crap

[Gary Coutin]

This is what I mean.   The Constitution was written by the Slaveholders, for the Slaveholders.   It had no BILL OF RIGHTS.   Look at Federalist 84.   They admitted that the Constitution HAD NO BILL OF RIGHTS.   It is the bill of rights that we adore and not the constitution.   The Constitution is a bill of powers without a bill of rights.   The name of such a government is TYRANNY.

 

GMC

---

From: Sharon Tipton <sharon...@gmail.com>

To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 5:34:40 PM

Subject: Re: Voting is crap

[Gary Coutin]

If the system is to change, it will take the people to change it.   We cannot look to one external leader and say he (or she) will take us there.   And sit back and wait for it to happen.   Because then it won't happen.   Guaranteed.

 

gmc

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From: jacqueline klein <j.kle...@gmail.com>

To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 5:47:46 PM

Subject: Re: Voting is crap

[Gary Coutin]

Sorry.   Can't make it.  Thought to meant Lagua Beach.

 

gmc

---

From: Dr Bill Honigman <drbillh...@gmail.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 6:10:42 PM
Subject: Re: What time on the 11th?

[Sharon Tipton]

Gary...
Reading D.Swanson's excellent plan for peace on www.davidswanson.org (let's try democracy),he mentions many areas which need manning. One is demonstrating with a smaller group willing to be arrested. Per Naomi Klein, we've never had major change in this country without it. My point is that competing with lobbyists for congress is futile w/out the other strategies.

My friend, I have given tears, money, time, words, paint, costume, song, chants, prayer, risked physical harm and endured ridicule and fiercely exercize my first amendment rights! I've made an oath to uphold the Constitution with my life. Rather than overthrow the current government (which some groups both left and right are callng for) I believe getting back to basics is the highest road, the smartest, the easiest, and the safest.

An overthrow may seem farfetched, but if it can occur in a sophisticated mecca like the Weimar Republic, it can happen here. I'm sure many you know how prepared our country is to enforce martial law, continue the abandonment of Posse Comitatus, and detain innocent people under the Patriot Act- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9zGhYSIAP8 )

What do I pledge to do? 1) I'm interested in the Congressional Accountability Project (a watchdog group re-created by Nader), 2) Supporting the lawsuit against the Commission on Presidential Debates for partisanship (against it's charter) so that the two party monopoly is forced to allow candidates with a following to be heard without CENSORSHIP and so that the debates will never be watered down to pablum for idiots again :-) , 3) Being media (supporting indie media), freeway blogging, and media reform., 4) getting 5% votes for Green Party, so as to have an opposition party.

Next month my 17 year old Muslim friend and I will be protesting Gen Boykin, the 'warrior for God" who will be speaking at a mega church here. In this city where Trinity B'cast Network resides, we have an opportunity to help bring a ray of cognition to what is being done in God's name: War. Inviting IVAW in uniform and Christians esp to be visible. Placards: Stop Christian Jihad, Rapture is not an Exit Strategy, etc. :-)

There are many things to do. Something for everyone. Like you say, as long as we are wholehearted, and do what we can.

Thanks for letting me sort out these things here (never able to figure it out in school) ...thanks for your response, sharon

[Gary Coutin]

Naomi Klein is the idea that capitalism in our day cannot work without catastrophe to prop it up.  I agree.  

 

Let's just remember the people in those towers stepping off into oblivion because an imposter did not protect this country from its enemies.   Then we can all work together.  

 

More to follow.

 

gmc

---

From: Sharon Tipton <sharon...@gmail.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 12:21:28 PM
Subject: Re: What are you pledging?

[Sharon Tipton]

Gary, glad you agree.

And let's not forget about the over 1/2 million Iraqi children who  have been murdered illegally, nor the fascist coup we're probably helping with in Honduras.

• The thousands detained (even Americans) w/o representatation or charges..

• The Trillions given to financial industries (who happened to contribute heavily to the current president's campaign)

And on an on. Working together means working with the people of the world for the agenda of world peace and democracy.It's more important than ever.

peace stop fascism
sharon

[Sharon Toji]

Perhaps you mean Jacqueline Klein. She lives in Irvine, and is very well versed in what is happening, up to the minute, in the health care legislation. 

Sharon Toji

[Sharon Tipton]

Hi Sharon, No we were discussing Naomi Klein's observation that no movement ever went forward w/o mass protests that were NOT Permitted, and David Swanson's Peace Strategy for the Long War. He says that what has been effective is when  a few are willing to be arrested by are also backed by a ton or regular protesters. So far, no one has been arrested using this method!

Sharon Tipton

[jacqueline klein]

hello sharon toji:-)

jacqueline klein here....

naomi klein is a very interesting, canadian journalist who wrote a book, not too long ago, called "the shock doctrine."

its essence, is that the media feeds on catastrophe and hyperbole to create a frightened and highly kinetic culture that lives from one news crisis to the next.

     presently, she is one of the prime initiators of a boycott against all israeli made goods as a way to economically coerce israel into addressing the plight of the palestinians and their illegal expansion and abuses in the palestinian territories.

     i am not certain, but i  think she may also be involved with george galloway's "viva palestina" movement.

best wishes,

jacqueline

[Sharon Toji]

Yes, now I remember who she is. I got confused because you were making a lot of observations back and forth with Sharon Tipton, and I thought they maybe were referring to you and got your name wrong. Sorry -- didn't mean to interject something confusing.

Sharon Toji

[Sharon Tipton]

Hi Jacqueline, and to add to Naomi's contribution to the progressive dialog, she shows how corporations and government exploit catastrophes like 9/11, war, etc. in order to turn a profit, or put legislation into place. (I daresay she agrees that the Bail Out was an example of using shock to put into place one's agenda)

With the depressions (this one included) which was caused by bankers wanting to make alot of money in a very short time, the up side for the bankers, is that they now can buy all the homes and businesses which were foreclosed.

Here's a great article (partly) about healthcare.
http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2008/09/free-market-ideology-far-finished

best,
Sharon Tipton

[Gary Coutin]

You and I can agree till the cows come home.   It won't do any good until the American people agree with us.  

 

As far as Americans are concerned, the oil in Iraq is our oil under their feet. 

 

So killing Iraqis is not a crime.

 

I went through all this in Vietnam War.  

 

Americans do not think that other peoples have any rights.  

 

Americans think that killing Iraqis, Vietnamese, etc., is like shooting buffalo from a moving train.

 

gmc

---

From: Sharon Tipton <sharon...@gmail.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 8:31:31 PM
Subject: Re: Naomi Klein?

[Gary Coutin]

Somebody slipped Naomi Klein into this string.   I don't know JK but I like her emails.

 

gmc

---

From: Sharon Toji <ht...@cox.net>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 9:24:29 PM
Subject: Re: Naomi Klein?

[Gary Coutin]

Capitalism has ceased to work under ordinary circumstances.   It only works under the stimulus of crisis.  That is why the let it happen or made it happen.   (LIHOP or MIHOP).  e.g., 9/11.

 

gmc

---

From: jacqueline klein <j.kle...@gmail.com>

To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 10:42:17 PM
Subject: Re: Naomi Klein?

[Gary Coutin]

Yes.   now illuminated.

 

gmc

---

From: Sharon Toji <ht...@cox.net>

To: democrat...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 11:27:18 PM
Subject: Re: Naomi Klein?

[Sharon Tipton]

Yes, it was Sharon Tipton pontificating from all over the map again!!(Shoulda beena preacher! Actually was preaching at the Gay Bashers at the opening of Rent at CDM HS!)

If these are Sharon Toji's friends, I'm sure you all are wonderful! What a great group of informed citizens we have in Irvine..I'm almost settled down enough to get involved! The Sat. Klatch sounds terrific! See you all soon! Sharon T2.

[Sharon Tipton]

Gary, That is why I'm so excited about the debut of a genuine news program, Al Jazeera English! I've heard Fox (of all people, or maybe NOT surprising) is in negotiations to bring it to the masses!!! . ..finally, in decades, there is a great chance the American people will find out what the rest of the world knows...so we can get caught up here.

"Democracy requires an infomed electorate" I believe this statement is true. Remember it was partly, some say almost entirely, because photos of the MyLai massacre were released, and people were able to see the devastation, that the Vietnam War ended. So, if you read what my pledges were, to bring information to the electorate is one of my goals.

Please ask Cox to show Al Jazeera Engish! Wouldn't it be astonishing if there were actually intelligent discussions about current events in the local bars????? Then, so Cal. would be truly terrific! thttp://www.iwantaje.net/  best,sharon tipton

[Gary Coutin]

Why would Fox carry Al Jazeera English! ????

 

gmc

---

From: Sharon Tipton <sharon...@gmail.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 12:10:27 PM
Subject: Re: shooting buffalo from a moving train.

[Sharon Tipton]

Because it will be profitable. Fox carries shows like The Simpson. It's news channel is like the Jerry Springer of news and is also profitable. That's my guess....http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=789256

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=37175

APPLE APPROVES AL-JAZEERA IPHONE APP

The English-language version of the Arab news channel Al-Jazeera may still not have an outlet on cable television in the U.S., but it now has one on the iPhone and the iPod Touch. Apple has reportedly approved an Al-Jazeera "app" that is offered in two versions -- one, with lower video quality, for basic wireless 3G data hook-ups and another, with higher quality, for wi-fi connections. Al-Jazeera says that neither version is currently compatible with the new iPhone 3G S, but that one should be available within a matter of days.

http://www.movieweb.com/news/NE4vO44bL8X074

So, looks like maybe the Business and Sports news will be used. Hopefully, world news will follow.

Sharon

[Gary Coutin]

Wrong.   You are not a Machivellian and therefor cannot understand those that do.

 

gmc

---

From: Sharon Tipton <sharon...@gmail.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 3:58:26 PM
Subject: Re: Why would Fox carry Al Jazeera English! ????

[Sharon Tipton]

Okay. Thanks(?) Even if Fox is the propaganda arm of the right wing, it still wants to turn a profit.I guess it's the cable providers who would show AJE, anyway.

If you'd like to help the effort of getting balanced news to the American People, please ask your local cable provider to carry them:

http://www.iwantaje.net/
also, DemocracyNow!
www.democracynow.org

thanks,sharon

[Gary Coutin]

Here's the angle on the Fox Al Jazeera is the Supreme Court decision protecting flag burners.   The object is not to "protect" flag burners in the ordinary sense of that process.   The reason flag burners are protected is to take down the left by making them seem "unpatriotic" and wackos.   The protection of flag burners is an inversion.  The object is to "give them enough rope and they will hang themselves."   Hence, Fox Al Jazeera. 

 

gmc

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From: Sharon Tipton <sharon...@gmail.com>
To: democrat...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 4:22:06 PM
Subject: Re: You are not a Machivellian