waiting for bug to be fixed

[jfsuperior]

Mark,

I have a startup 'macro' written by Randy brandt which has been
working flawlessly for over 10 years on my IIGS computers. It
automatically loads AW and multiple AW files on three desktops which I
can toggle from one to another.

Using your Deja IIX that you provided for my Mac OS X I cannot load
ALL the same files regardless what I've attempted so far.

If you recall there's some bug in the program and I'm hoping that
between you and Randy we can get it up and running. I'm a big fan of
the old AW programs enhanced all the way through you and Randy so I
look forward to continue to run the same on my Mac. Please help ASAP.
Thanks.

Best regards,
Jack Freedman

[Mark Munz]

I know this is an ongoing issue. I'm hoping Randy will join the group
as he is much more knowledgeable about the scripts, potential points
of failure and the inner workings of UltraMacros and AW Inits, all of
which is needed to pinpoint where the failure is occurring. Yes,
despite all the hype, Randy DOES know more about UltraMacros that me.
Hopefully he's retained more than me too. :)

If my experience has taught me anything, it is that the problem is
likely something that is the result of a very subtle behavior on the
real Apple II that wasn't properly duplicated under Deja IIx. These
are often the hardest bugs to find and can take serious time and
commitment to track down.

Mark

--
Mark Munz
unmarked software
http://www.unmarked.com/

[Hugh Hood]

Jack,

Is there any chance that any of the files you pre-load are _Locked_?

I know if you lock a file (either within Deja IIx or from the OS X
Finder), for some darn reason you get the dreaded 'getting errors
trying to read file message.'

Unlock the files (again, either within Deja IIx or from the OS X
Finder) and presto, they load. Of course, your files are then subject
to being overwritten if you aren't careful.

Just a thought, of course. Trial and error. I'm sure you know the
routine.

BTW, are you THE Jack Freedman, from Brooklyn, whom Randy once termed
'The World's Number One AppleWorks User'?

Hugh...

[JfSUP...@aol.com]

Hugh,

Your feedback is appreciated. However, I'm using the same startup macro and the very same AW files as on the IIGS so I know that none of the files are locked. Apparently both Mark and Randy know there's some small bug in the Deja IIX which they haven't gotten around to catch. I'm confident that if they put their collective time and minds to it they will resolve the problem and it will be smooth sailing thereon.

Yes, I'm THE Jack Freedman Randy wrote about. You have an awesome memory!

Regards,
Jack

**************
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[Mark Munz]

Actually, if you are the code is not writing to the file, the IIGS
probably would not complain about reading from it if it was locked.
Based on what Hugh is saying, that same file would choke on D2. One
thing to try is to use the File Activities to list all the files and
see if any of them are locked (ie. have a * next to their types).

This file permissions bug is something I haven't seen before, so I
can't rule it out just yet.

As for our analysis of the problem you are having -- just to be clear
that all we have right now is a theory. Randy and I were trying to
figure out the best way to test the theory before schedules made it
more difficult. The belief was that there was a bug how the code of
one of the inits worked. *If* true, the issue comes to localizing the
problem to find out which specific command and then being a detailed
trace.

In truth, this is a slightly scarier type of scenario. My hope is that
either it is something else or that the reason behind the problem is
some obscure use of Apple II side-effect behavior that just wasn't
accounted for in the emulator (but is not used often by most others).

Randy has often pushed Apple II hardware to its limits to conserve a
few bytes (a critical issue when you only have 4K or 16K to work with
-- vs. today's 4-16GB open workspace). In those days, it was an
absolute necessity to do some of the amazing things he did (like
UltraMacros, AppleWorks, Total Control, etc).

Mark

[Steven Nelson]

On Dec 5, 2008, at 10:22 AM, JfSUP...@aol.com wrote:

Hugh,

Your feedback is appreciated. However, I'm using the same startup macro and the very same AW files as on the IIGS so I know that none of the files are locked. Apparently both Mark and Randy know there's some small bug in the Deja IIX which they haven't gotten around to catch. I'm confident that if they put their collective time and minds to it they will resolve the problem and it will be smooth sailing thereon.

Yes, I'm THE Jack Freedman Randy wrote about. You have an awesome memory!

A followup question if you have the ability to test.  Is the 'bug' only with DejaIIx or is it also with Deja][ (MacOS7-9)?

I know of an obscure 'feature' that affects both Deja][ and DejaIIx.  In the database, there is an option to 'export' a field to another database file.

Likewise, there is an option to 'import' a field from another database.  (These were introduced in TotalControl under AW3.)  Import works flawlessly, but 'export' does not work in either Deja][ or DejaIIx.  Nothing bad happens, but the data does not get to the export file.  This does work on real hardware, and also under IIGS emulators like KEGS and Sweet16.  So it is a 'bug' related to the Deja emulator(s) it seems.  What obscure code export uses that code like import does not use I do not know.

I have never felt at a loss, since I can do with import what I would otherwise do with export.  But the same files when put in a true II emulator (eg, KEGS, Sweet16) work fine, and also on a real II, but not in Deja][/DejaIIx.

My point is, there maybe some obscure bug(s) in Deja that appear only in specific code.  In my example, I suspect something is not getting write enabled in some bank which does happen on real hardware/other emulators.  No idea who, what, when, where ;-)

Your 'bug' sounds much more important to fix.

  --Steven Nelson

[Howard Katz]

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Steven Nelson <steven...@uiowa.edu> wrote:

  This does work on real hardware, and also under IIGS emulators like KEGS and Sweet16.  So it is a 'bug' related to the Deja emulator(s) it seems.  What obscure code export uses that code like import does not use I do not know.

 

People like Sheppy who's continually updating Sweet 16, are still around and active in the Apple II community--would it help to get him in contact with you (Mark) and Randy to work on what's going on with the emulation base program?

 

Howard

 

(Jack Freedman, Hugh Hood, Steve Nelson, Mark and Randy--feels like old home week around here seeing these names working with AW.  :) )

[Hugh Hood]

Mark,

I noticed that Beta 10 will now load locked files to the Desktop.

Thanks for handling that.

I wonder if that will take care of Jack's problem?

Hugh...

[Mark Munz]

Oops. Forgot to document that change. Think of it as an early Holiday gift. :)

I am not sure if the locked files were the source of Jack's problems
or not. The file handling/directory reading behavior is one area that
had significant changes for the move to OS X -- so it is possible, but
I can't be sure.

One thing to note. I don't know what the original behavior is supposed
to be when trying to write to a locked file (and if AppleWorks would
tell you this or not). While I tried to duplicate the errors you would
get, AW didn't complain about trying to save to a locked file, it just
left the B52 file.

More work may still be needed.

Mark

[Hugh Hood]

Mark,

Since you asked,

AppleWorks gives "New information was not saved" when attempting to
save to a locked file.

Thanks for the early Holiday gift, BTW.

Finally, lest someone would get the wrong idea since these posts are
time stamped, I must mention that I'm not normally up at 3:20 am CST
on a Monday morning posting to the BBs.

I needed to go into work Sunday and finish a project. We'll, about
1:30 this morning I finished and left and now I just can't seem to
wind down. Oh well.

My wife claims she 'understands.' We'll see. <g>

Happy Holidays, fellas.

Hugh...

[Mark Munz]

> AppleWorks gives "New information was not saved" when attempting to
> save to a locked file.

It will require a little more investigation to determine what the
entire sequence of ProDOS calls are and then determine what error is
*not* being returned to indicate to AW that the file couldn't be
saved.

It looks like I'm still missing a piece of the puzzle. Hmm, come to
think of it, that might have been why I hadn't documented it yet.