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Asia: Thailand: General info

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Doctor Moon Ray

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Aug 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/31/99

(This text was posted unaltered by Doctor Moon Ray from Atta's World Sex
Guide. Go to http://www.deja.com/~worldsexguide to see the entire WSG.)

Prostitution in: Thailand

General Information about country, people, geography and climate can be
gotten from the CIA World Factbook entry.

Legal Situation: Prostitution is technically illegal, but largely
tolerated. It has been culturally accepted for a long time.
Prostitutes are never arrested (underage prostitutes are sent to
education camps); buying sex is legal. There seems to be a recent
crack down on child prostitution though: buying sex from someone under
18 is illegal; every once in a while authorities like to catch
a foreign paedophile and send him to a long prison sentence. Nude or
even topless dancing is also illegal but is widespread.
Pimping and operating brothels is illegal.

Pornography is illegal.

The age of consent is 16. Police discourage girls between 16 and 18 from
the prostitution business.

Several very comprehensive articles about the thai scene have been
contributed:

Bangkok Thailand FAQ, includes Hotel list
Sex in Thailand
Description of the Bangkok Scene
Bangkok Story (including Pattaya)
Tips and Tricks for having fun in Bangkok
The Thailand Sex Scene
Thai by Night, some background and a reading list

Other information:

Long travel report #1
Long travel report #2
Long travel report #3
Long travel report #4
Other travel reports
Avoiding tourist traps
Chiang Mai
Chiang Rai
Pattaya
Tourist murders in Pattaya
Phuket
Hat Yai
News clips
A report about the economics and politics of child prostitution in
Thailand

specifically Bangkok:

The bars in Bangkok.
Scams in the upstairs bars and elsewhere.
Hot tip: the Nana Plaza and the Thermae Coffee Shop.
Massage parlors in Bangkok.
Price updates, bits and pieces.
Hotels that provide girls

External links:

Excerpts from a PhD thesis about prostitution in Thailand (seems
like I chose the wrong field...) are here. There's even a
map of the interesting area included. The author's home page
contains a photo of a Pussy Razor blade Show in Patpong.
Back issues of the Trink page of the Bangkok Post, which often
contains up to date information about the scene.

The World Sex Guide at worldsexguide.org. Last update:
1998/07/21. Send material to Atta. ©1994-98 by Atta. Permission is
granted to freely copy, modify, and distribute this document in whole or
in part, provided that it is not done for profit and that this entire
copyright notice remains attached.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Doctor Moon Ray

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Aug 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/31/99

(This text - originally the first part of a text headlined "Sex in
Thailand" (see the rest under "Thailand: Bangkok") - was posted

unaltered by Doctor Moon Ray from Atta's World Sex Guide. Go to
http://www.deja.com/~worldsexguide to see the entire WSG.)

Sex in Thailand Part 1: The Basics

Disclaimer: You'll find nothing in here about pedophilia, and only a
line
or two about gay sex. The former, IMHO, is pathologically evil, and I
have no personal interest in the latter.

For those interested in pedophilia, BEWARE! Anyone arrested for
pedophilia in
Thailand now has their record, and the reason for their arrest,
published
in their home-town newspapers. It's happening now in the US and Europe.
Think about it.

AIDS (to get this out of the way at the outset): Indulging in sex in
Thailand is like participating in a high-risk sport where you have no
control over your equipment. Sky-diving without knowing who packed your
chute, for example; or with no chute at all. The risk is real; there's
more than a 50% chance your partner(s) will be HIV positive. If you are
particularly naive, you can take comfort from the "100% AIDS-Free"
badges
the girls wear in some places. It's your life.

1. This will be my first trip to Thailand. What should I know about
Thai
women?

Thai women are like women anywhere: some nice, some not so; some pretty,
some not so. Do NOT (also in the rest of Asia) mistake personal grace
for
subservience. When treated badly, they will react the same as people
anywhere. Same goes for Thai men. When deliberately insulted, Thais
are
capable of sudden and (to the recipient) astonishing violence. Thai
boxing is not the sport of pacifists; and in the Vietnam War, Thai
soldiers were the most feared by the Viet Cong. They can, and if pushed
will, kick your butt. Or worse. Behave decently and politely at all
times, to everyone.

2. How do Thais regard prostitution, and prostitutes?

Depends. Prostitution in Thailand has long been an accepted (if not
universally loved) part of the social fabric. It does not carry the
stigma, either for the women or their customers, that it does in the
West. IMHO, this is primarily due to the fact that Thais adhere to a
very
different tradition from the guilt-laden and highly proscriptive
Judeo-Christian one. In general society, prostitutes are not very
discriminated against; but you wouldn't bring one to a party (where, no
matter how conservatively-dressed and soft-spoken, she would, by a
mysterious process, be instantly identified as what she was and cut out
of
the conversation. Maybe because she was foolish enough to show up with
you, for example. Many, if not most, upper-class Thai women wouldn't
be
caught dead with a Westerner, no matter how "nice" you were.

(Follow THREAD to see the next part of the "Thailand: General info"
section of Atta's World Sex Guide.)

Doctor Moon Ray

unread,

Aug 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/31/99

(This text - originally the first part of a text headlined "The Thailand
Sex Scene" - was posted unaltered by Doctor Moon Ray from Atta's World
Sex Guide. Follow THREAD to see the previous part of the "Thailand:
General info" section of this Guide. Go to

http://www.deja.com/~worldsexguide to see the entire WSG.)

I came across your page and found it very interesting to read the
different
stories that people share and their recommendations. I am always looking
for
new vacation spots to go to. When choosing a location there are three
things
that I look for - warmth, water and accessible inexpensive women. The
last
one being of prime importance.

Over the past 5 to 6 years, I have found Thailand and Brazil to be the
best
bets by far. I have been to a number of other foreign locations on
business;
Japan, H.K., Singapore, Vietnam, Cambodia, Amsterdam, London, Germany,
Italy,Puerto Rico, Mexico and have found the sex scene either far too
expensive or too difficult to track down. I was in the Philippines a few
times before Ermita was shut down and though the women were lovely and
easy
to find, Manila is such a cess pool that it is not a place one wants to
linger.

So I keep going back to Thailand and Brazil (Rio specifically) and have
probably been to each 15 and 10 times respectively . I simply never tire
of
either and find both wonderful places to visit even excluding the sex
element. I thought I would pass on as much information to your readers
as I
can regarding what I have picked up over the years.

Lets start with Thailand. This is where I first came to appreciate the
allures of procured women. For most of us who have never been outside of
the
U.S. , it is difficult to even imagine what a place like Thailand has to
offer. You may have heard stories of Patpong and the sex shows, but
until
faced with the quantity and quality of the available women you can never
truly understand what it is all about. I have met numerous westerners
(farangs to the locals) who have gone to Thailand and never gone back
home
or others who save their money up to come back year after year. I saw a
story
in the paper the other day regarding one of the Crown Prince's of Japan.
He
apparently skipped a ceremonial meeting with President Clinton to study
catfish in Thailand. The story hinted that he was after more than
catfish in
Thailand as he has been there a number of times in the past few months.
Believe me I completely understand. Thai women are addictive.

Let me state that the sex industry in Thailand was not created by
Western
demand. It is a long standing tradition in Thailand and the vast
majority of
it, though not visible to us, is for the local men. It is common for
most
Thai men to have their first sexual experience in a brothel. In these
brothels for the locals, many of the women are forced to have sex 10-15
times
a day and cannot insist on their customers wearing condoms. Many of
these
women have been forced into this business often by their own family.
When one
hears about the AIDS epidemic in Thailand, this is where most of it is
taking
place. The women who cater to farangs are their own agents. Though they
obviously are doing it for economic reasons, no one is forcing them to
do it,
they don't have pimps, they often quit or take months off when they have
saved enough money,most of them demand that their client wear a condom,
if
they work in a bar they are tested for AIDS on a monthly basis and most
of
them are lucky if they have 4-5 clients a week. Even so many of these
women
earn much more money than the vast majority of the populace. A woman
working
in a factory will earn about $30 dollars a week. One of the working
"ladies"
can earn this amount in a few hours. So it is hardly surprising that
there
are so many women willing to work in this profession.

So lets start with the Thai women. They have a physical gracefulness,
elegance and lovliness that I feel is unmatched anywhere in the world.
Take a
walk down a crowded street and count the number of attractive women you
see
or go into one of the Robinson department stores and you will see more
beauty
per sq. ft. than anywhere in the world. Though they are obviously of
Asian
origin, there is a large variety of looks from Malay to Chinese to
Japanese
to Indian to Vietnamese. And they all seem to have smiles that can make
your
heart flutter.

On top of this are their personalities, due perhaps to their Buddhist
upbringing, that are warm, sparkling, giggly, modest and shy that is
incredibly appealing. Chi-dee in Thai means "good heart" and it is
something
that is very important to their culture. This is obviously a
generalization.
There are plenty of women who don't have these qualities, but sooo many
do.
These qualities are also found with the "ladies". You will no doubt,come
across some "ladies" who have become jaded and will try to rip you off,
but
its amazing how many even after years in the biz still retain "chi-dee".

In terms of the sex act itself, you will unfortunately find a very large
range of ability from totally inept and inexperienced to mind blowing .
I
have yet to find a sure fire method to determine what I am getting
beforehand. A number of the "ladies" are extemely shy. Trying to get a
look
at them nude can often be very difficult - sometimes this enhances the
experience, other times it can be very frustrating. They much prefer
doing
the act with the lights out, but I like to see what I have and often I
have
spent a lot of time convincing them to leave the lights on. In terms of
hugging,kissing etc. they are usually very affectionate (though Thais
don't
kiss like we do so this is a learned talent) and intercourse,of course,
can
be bad to good. They will make a real effort,though, to make sure that
you
cum, because if you don't they are afraid one that you won't pay them,
but
also because it hurts their pride. One thing that you should be
forwarned of:
many of the women will refuse to give head. According to Buddhism the
head is
holy and should not be fouled by oral sex. So even offering more money
will
often not work( though sometimes it does!). If this is important to you,
you
should ask the girl before you go with her if she "smokes". This is
their
slang for a blow-job. Many will, but many won't. The ones that are
willing
to "smoke" will not make you wear a condom , but will for intercourse
and you
should do so yourself even if the girl does not ask you to.

The Procedure: This is for the most part very simple. If you are in a
bar and
you see a girl that you like, you can either send for her (they wear
numbers), go to her when she is not dancing or just try and catch her
eye. In
a crowded bar this last method often will be unsuccessful. Again many of
the
girls are very shy and will not look you in the eye or they will not
chance
coming over because if you turn them down they will lose face in front
of
their friends. But once you are with them, buy them a cola - $3-4 - they
get
part of the proceeds and this will put them in a good mood. Try and get
a
feeling for their personality. Most of them will speak very little
English
beyond "Where you from?","How long you stay in Thailand", "Where you
stay?"
and of course they are quite good with amounts. A surprising amount
though do
speak decent English as it is taught in a number of their schools and
many
have had farang boyfriends. If you decide that this is the girl that you
want
to spend some time with - the negotiations begin. Do you want "long
time" (
all night) or "short time" (usually one cum). Do your best to come to an
agreement on price. This can avoid much aggravation later on. Many of
the
girls won't give a price for fear that you will refuse, so they say "Up
to
you". Depending on your generosity they will later on be satisfied or
pissed
off. Unless you're a real cheap bastard the girls will usually be happy
with
what you give them. O.K. you have agreed to leave together and now you
find
out there is a "bar fine" - an amount charged by the bar for the girl to
leave - usually it ranges from $12-16 , but it keeps going up. Oh well,
you've come this far so you pay the bar fine.Now you can either go back
to
your hotel or one of the short-time hotels that will be close by. This
decision might depend on how discreet you want to be in bringing a girl
back
to your hotel. The short-time hotels are pretty cheap I think - $10 at
most -
I've only used them twice a long time back. If you go back to your hotel
you
either have to check her in with the front desk (and in the top hotels
pay
another $20 extra) or in some hotels - my preference - just go up to
your
room. Once there, you will both take showers seperately and then get
down to
business. Only pay as the girl is getting ready to leave. Never pay
first. No
girl actually has ever asked me for payment up front. This of course
leaves
them open to farangs cheating them by not paying them or paying less
than the
agreed upon price. Believe me, I have heard many farangs boast about
this. I
think it is a lousy thing to do and these girls will spread the word as
quickly as possible about what you did and you may find it difficult to
get
another girl. Also, many of these girls have very tough boyfriends who
will
come looking for you. One night I was in the Thermae (more about this
place
later) when a tiny little girl accussed an American of short changing
her
because he had promised extra for a blow job and did not pay out. This
went
on and on, until the police came and carted the American off to jail.
Believe
me, you do not want to spend a minute in a Thai jail. So pay the girls.
It is
usually less than a night at the movies with your girlfriend.

Where to find the "Ladies" - This is easy. They are everywhere.
Bars,message
parlors, coffee shops,discos. Everywhere. If a Thai tout offers to take
you
somewhere for a girl, do not do it. You do not need anyones help in
locating
women and some of these guys will rob you once they have you alone.I
usually
stick to a few areas. These are:

In Bangkok: There are 3 main bar/entertainment areas in which each has
it's
own personality.

First is Soi Cowboy - located at about Sukhumit soi 20 - this place is
frequented primarily by farangs living in Bangkok. It is one street with
maybe 20 bars all full of girls. The atmosphere is laid back, not too
much
hasselling by the locals, the girls tend to leave you alone unless you
indicate an interest in them. Beers are about $3, bar charge about $12
and
the girls about $20-30 for short time, maybe $40 for all night. The
price of
the girl depends,as it does in all the places I will mention, on certain
factors: your looks,her looks,how good or bad business has been and how
late
in the night it is getting. I have had girls offer to go with me all
night
for $12 because rent was due and business had been bad.The more
knowledgeable
you seem about the whole process, the less likely they will try to
overcharge
you. The girls dance in bathing suits so do not expect to see a lot of
nudity. There are a couple of small bars that are a bit more racy than
the
others and often a girl will come sit next to you and give you a partial
hand
job through your clothes. For the most part Soi Cowboy is my least
favorite
of the 3 bar areas. The girls are by far the least attractive, though
very
friendly. It's a good place to start the evening off with a couple of
beers,
but then move on.

Patpong: This is the mecca of the sex trade for tourists. Most of the
local
farangs avoid it like the plague. It is again primarily one long street
with
a large number of bars on the street level and on a second level. The
atmosphere is frenetic - a bazaar is in the middle of the street selling
tons
of touristy things - and touts are constantly pulling at you to come
into
their bar. It can be too much . The reason to go is that most of the
girls in
these places are just stunning. It is great to go have a beer or two and
simply take them all in. Some of the bars have 40-50 girls each. The
main
problem is trying to make up your mind which one you want to be with. I
should make clear that there is a huge difference between the bars on
the
street level and the upstairs. On the street level - you get dancing
girls in
swimsuits - though occassionally the tops will come off. These are all
legit,friendly places. When you go upstairs you can run into
difficulties,
literally. These are the places that have all the sexshows - banana
this,
razor that, pop the balloons,take the bottle cap off - I honestly find
these
shows boring beyond belief. When you enter, you will be surrounded by a
swarm
of girls pestering you for colas. If you say no, they will disappear
like
smoke waiting to pounce on the next guy to walk through the door. When
the
girls do dance, they do dance nude which is a plus and if you do buy a
girl a
cola- they can be very friendly! Many of these upstairs places are total
ripoffs. When entering they will say no cover charge, but when you get
your
bill there will be an entertainment charge for $30-40 and they will try
to
intimidate you into paying it by surrounding you with 4 or 5 guys. This
happened to me once and I just said screw this, tossed down 100 baht for
my
beer and left and they did not stop me. I have heard stories where
others
were not so lucky and were beaten. If you want to go upstairs to see a
show,
my advice is go to one that is associated with Kings Castle ( You will
be
able to tell which these are). This group owns a number of downstairs
and a
few upstairs bars and the customer is always treated fairly. The other
upstairs bar, I've had good experiences in was Firehouse (I think that's
the
name - it's next to Pussy Galore). Prices in Patpong are more expensive
- $4
a beer,$14-16 bar fine and $40 short time, $60 all night. Again, I find
Patpong a fun place for a beer or two, dinner at Mcdonalds or Col.
Sanders
and then move on to my favorite place. It opens at about 8 and goes to
2AM.
(same with Soi Cowboy)

Nana Plaza - located at about Sukhumit soi 1 right across from the Nana
Hotel- is the smallest of the three places, but combines the best of
both the
other two. All the bars are within a courtyard on two levels. The
atmosphere
is festive, lots of attractive friendly girls, all the bars have outside
sitting if you just want to relax or talk with another farang. Sometimes
I
will just sit there beer in hand and watch the comings and goings of the
girls. Their antics can be very entertaining. A couple of the bars are
very
flashy - you can not miss them - where the girls dance nude, while a
number
of the upstairs bars are very small and cosy with only 10-15 girls (not
usually as attractive as the ones in the flashy bars - but very sweet)
If you
buy them a cola, they will snuggle up with you or give your back a nice
message. This is great place. My only concerns are that some of the
owners
are trying to upgrade the image by imitating Patpong, this would be a
shame
and secondly I have heard that there are plans to tear the place down
and put
up yet one more high rise - just what Bnagkok needs. Prices here have
been
going up, but are still less than Patpong, but more than Soi Cowboys.
Some of
the bars stay open till 5am.

I will mention a couple of other places - primarily after hour places
when
the bars have shut down.

A few words of warning first. When you take a girl from a bar, you can
feel
pretty safe that nothing bad will happen to you such as your things
being
stolen. Also that she at least has a monthly check-up. When you take a
girl
from an after hour place, you have none of these assurances. These girls
are
total independents - they come and go as they please and if they steal
from
you the chance of finding them is slim. I know of one not too bright guy
who
twice got everything he had stolen because he passed out drunk. These
girls
know you are not in town for too long so what the heck. But the vast
majority
of Thais and the "ladies" are incredibly honest. You could leave money
out on
your bureau for your whole trip and not a baht would be taken. But their
are
exceptions. Another caution to note is that in the bars even though most
of
the girls wear bathing suits, you get a pretty good look at them, in the
after hour places most of the women are dressed in unrevealing clothes
and a
number you will discover upon getting back to your hotel have major
stretch
marks. Having said this, I must admit to having availed myself many,
many
times of these independents. For one thing when the bars close at 2am, I
am
often not ready to turn in and, also, being very cheap I like to avoid
the
bar fine. A lot of the girls who show up are ones that did not get lucky
in
the bar, but many others just don't like working in the bars and much
prefer
working in this environment. Many of them have daytime jobs and do this
a few
times a month to make rent. My one precaution is that I only do short
time
with these girls. As soon as we are done, they are gone. They much
prefer
this anyways.

There are 2 discos in Patpong that get going around 12am. One is Kings
Lounge
- on a side street between Patpong I and Patpong II and the other is or
is
near the Peppermint Lounge. These places can get extremely crowded and
very
loud, but they are filled with young lovely Thais who want to dance for
a
while and then go home with you. The price should range from $20-40
depending
on before mentioned factors.

There is a coffee shop downstairs in the Grace Hotel - off Sukhummit soi
2.
This use to be a prime location. When I first went to Bangkok, I stayed
there
and when I went down my mouth was agape. It was wall to wall beauty.
Maybe a
100 girls in all. And you just had to take them upstairs. If you got
horny
later, you would go down for seconds. Then the Arabs decided to make
this
their home base in Bangkok and many of the girls left. I still go by
sometimes and am able to spot a nice one. Price should be $20-30.

Then there is the most famous after hour place - Thermae. It is located
on
Sukhummit 13 and can be recognized by the Greek columns outside. There
are
lots of people outside eating and drinking, but you can only get in by
going
down a driveway and coming in the back way. It is not a pretty picture.
Smelly urinals, an old recroom look with a jukebox and tables to sit
down to
eat or drink. But this place can be great. The farangs who show up tend
to be
much more interesting than those you meet in the bars. Many of them have
been
all over, so just talking with them can be interesting. The place is
open
from about 11pm to 6am, but does not get going till about 1am. There is
a
continuous stream of women coming and going. The range is amazing - from
the
most young and beautiful to ones who got started in the biz during the
Vietnam war. Many of the girls in the Thermae seem to be willing to
"smoke"
and in general seem more sexually aggressive than the ones in the bars.
I
don't know why this is. It is easy to make contact with the girls and
take
them back to your hotel. I have often hung out till closing time and
chosen a
girl then.

These then are a few of my favorite places. I prefer having a girl in my
hotel room so I have never availed myself of the massage parlors. Many
people
have told me that they can be fabulous. There are also many Escort
services,
but I have never used one of these as I like to pick my own girl.
Finding a
girl during the daytime can be tough. Some of the bars in the Nana Plaza
were
open in the day the last time I was there and some of the coffee shops
open
at noon, but the pickings are slim. The message parlors are open during
the
day. There just does not seem to be much demand for afternoon sex. Most
farangs are recovering from their bar hopping from the night before.

Where to stay: I always stay at the Nana Hotel. It is about $40 a night,
has
decent rooms, satellite TV, a nice swimming pool, a restaurant, a
barbershop,
a tailor, a travel agency and a disco where you can find girls (but I
don't
recommend the disco - overpriced and the girls are not so hot.). If the
Nana
is too pricey, I still recommend something near Sukhummit between soi 1
and
soi 20. Lots of places to shop and eat and it is near Soi Cowboy, Nana
Plaza,the Grace and the Thermae and it is only a $4 taxi trip to
Patpong.

If Bangkok gets to be too much after seeing all the wonderful sights -
don't
miss the Temple of Dawn or the Kings Palace they are magnificent - and
it can
because Bangkok has become a city with little visible charm. The traffic
jams
are the worst in the world - never go anywhere during the rush hours
unless
you have hours to spare - and high rises are going up everywhere. The
heat
and humidity can be overwhelming to us westerners. So if you need to get
out,
but still want women - there are two prime destinations.

Pattaya - a beach resort about 2-3 hour drive from Bangkok. This is one
wanton place. Its main purpose is to sexually service farangs. One
guidebook
estimates about 4,000 women in this very small beach town. It is
basically
nothing but hotels, restaurants, bars, massage parlors, and discos and
lots of
single farangs. You do not see a lot of female farangs there. There are
many
open air bars where 10 or so girls will hang out waiting for business,
10 or
so bars where the girls dance and one disco that almost everyone ends up
at
by 1am - the Marine Disco. Its quite large and filled with hundreds of
women.
Prices in Pattaya tend to be cheaper than Bangkok - the hotels, the
women
everything. The beaches outside of the town are great. I find this place
a
bit boring after more than 3 or 4 days, but it is a needed respite from
Bangkok. I know of many farangs who spend weeks there every year and
never go
near Bangkok, so it depends on what you like.

Phuket - this is a wonderful, beautiful island in south Thailand. It is
not
primarily about sex, but is about great beaches, clear water and sea
sports.
But there are certainly women available primarily in open air bars. Most
of
the women are concentrated along Patong Beach. Prices are usually in the
$20-30 range.

Koh Samui - have never been, but heard that it has great beaches and
plenty
of women.

Well, thats about it. Pack your bags and go. There have been those who
have
not liked the Thai experience, but they are the few. If you like Asian
women
and an interesting country this is the place to go. It is rapidly
changing
and in a few years will probably be as expensive as Singapore or H.K.

One last warning. Make sure the girl's a girl. There are lots of
transvestites and transexuals. Sometimes they work in the same bars as
the
regular girls and there are many stories of guys drinking too much and
ending
up with one. One true story. One night a Brit came back to a bar and
started
telling his buddy about the incredible woman he had been with the night
before. The best blow job, the tightest vagina - all night long they
went at
it. He was now back looking to take her out again. At this point a
number of
the bar girls started laughing like crazy and after much prodding they
told
him that the girl was of course a former guy. I understand it was quite
a
while before he could get back into the swing of things.

Also, don't be surprised at anything you see. You will see old men with
girls
that look to be and maybe are 13 yrs old, or old men with young boys.
Pretty
much everything goes or is available. Which reminds me of one pleasure
that
very few of us can afford to indulge in anywhere else. Two girls at
once.
This is easily arranged in the bars. I have done it 4 times myself.
Twice it
was great, the other two times it was not. You have to make sure that
the
girls are really comfortable with the idea. The two times it was great
for me
was with 2 sisters and then with one of these sisters and yet another
sister.
It was great. An unforgettable experience.

Lastly a reading list. I don't think these books are available outside
of
Thailand, but if you are there and have time on your hands sitting by
the
pool I recommend these. They are all fictional works, but get to the
heart of
the Thai woman and the farangs who never go home.

Faces of the Night - by John Hinds - a collection of short stories about
the
women who work in the bars. Some very sad, some funny.

Two books by Collin Piprell - Bangkok Knights and Kicking Dogs . Again
stories of the the bar women and the farangs who frequent them. Kicking
Dogs
is hilarious.

Finally, anything by Christopher Moore - he has 6-7 books that take
place in
Thailand. Some detective novels, other adventure stories, but my
favorite is
"A Killing Smile", much of which takes place in the Thermae - though it
is
not named - and he gets deep into the psyche of the Thai bar girl. His
understanding of them is amazing. It is a great story.

========================================================================
===
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 04:07:02 EDT
Subject: THAILAND UPDATE

Hello again! STRYKER here. I've lived and worked in SE Asia for
about 15 years now . About six of thos years were spent managing
whore bars in Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket (Goldfingers, Supergirls,
F1, among others) Although I now work in a more 'respectable' (and
better paying!) profession. I still like to keep up to date on my
favorite past time, fucking ripe, hot pussy!.

If you've never been to Thailand, or haven't been for a while, NOW is
a great time to go there! The Thai economy is in the shitter, the
baht has been devalued, and best of all, the bars are neraly empty of
fahrang. What does that mean? It means, now hear this, "HOT PUSSY
FOR SALE(RENT) AT BARGAIN BASEMENT PRICES!"

Yessiree folks, you can come to Thailand, get a great discount on your
hotel in Bangkok or Pattaya, and not have to compete with other guys.

It's a buyers market!

So, cum to Thailand, and fuck your brains out with some of the finest
ladies in the world, and save money doing it!

CAVEAT EMPTOR, the slack economy has also brought a rise in crimes
against
fahrang in the Kingdom. Look out for the rip offs.

1) Don't carry too much cash on you, and get a room with a safe in it,
and use it!

2) A few girls in Pattay put a narcotic substance on their nipples,
lips and even pussys that, when ingested by an unknowing fahrang,
knocked him out cold so he could be robbed. This is by no means a
rare event in Pattay, merely an interestng new twist on slipping the
fahrang a mickey. DON"T DRINK ANY DRINK FROM A BAR GIRL THAT YOU ARE
NOT 100% SURE IS SAFE! In 1990, I sat on a plane back to the USA next
to a guy who's best friend, in his twenties, just died in Pattay after
a bar girl slipped him a mickey. Watch your ass! Best bets- go to
pattayaland massage parlor to fuck a beautiful girl, then go to the
beer bars to joke and have fun with the bar girls. After your cock is
drained, and before your wallet is!

3) Don't fuck with the touts outside of the bars in Patpong, Soi
Cowboy, Nana Entertainment Plaza or in Pattaya. They may be annoying
and persistant but just smile and move on. I've seen a few "tough
guys" who were pretty damned big mouth off to one of these guys, and
suddenly he was surrounded by a wolf pack and has his ass kicked.
SMILE!

4) Don't bother with tuk-tuks anymore. The drivers will often try to
rip you off because they are hard up, and the Taxi-Meters are cheaper
these days.

5) The Police have been raiding a few bars in NEP, Soi Cowboy and
Patpong looking for drugs, and underage girls. DON'T BRING DRUGS!
I've been in a Thai prison once, as a visitor, and believe me, you do
not want to go there. If the police come in checking IDs, smile and
cooperate. They really aren't after you.

6) There is now a B2,000 fine for littering in Bangkok. Sadly, it is
only enforced when a fahrang litters You must pay on the spot, and it
is hgly doubtful that the money goes any farther than the cop's
pocket.

You've been warned, now, HAPPY FUCKING!
STRYKER

Doctor Moon Ray

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Aug 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/31/99

(This text - originally the first part of a text headlined "Thai by
Night, some background and a reading list" - was posted unaltered by

Doctor Moon Ray from Atta's World Sex Guide. Follow THREAD to see the
previous part of the "Thailand: General info" section of this Guide. Go
to http://www.deja.com/~worldsexguide to see the entire WSG.)

Subject: Thailand

THAI BY NIGHT C1993, 1998

So long as I dare to embrace the Buddha and have my hands and can
spread my legs, I need never beg nor be a burden to anyone.

Thailand has been my country of choice for the past eight years. I'm
an old hippie with pussy fever and we all know it's impossible to get
enough.

Sex is, for me, the fountain of youth. With variety, a man of any age
can enjoy many women every day. This really isn't possible in many
places but Thailand. Youth, grace, petiteness, sweetness,
friendliness, understanding, enthusiasm and pure fun are the norm.
That just isn't true in our drab, grey, boring, cold Western countries
where that Christian work ethic pervades our lives. Very few of the
men I know patronize prostitutes in the West; we are usually not the
clients of street hookers, escort services, massage parlours or even
tele-sex lines. If you've ever used one of the above, you know that
from the minute of contact the meter is running. While these women
may be very good actresses, once you are paying them money they won't
give you a chance at the real thing.

Let's get one thing straight: sex is always an exchange for money.
The cost of a dinner, a bottle of wine, gas for the car, perhaps a
movie or a little smoke is what it takes to get there. As with all
other amenities, the cost in Thailand is about half price.

That does not make women commodities, however, in Thailand or anywhere
else. Thai culture demands modesty and you will see bodies displayed
by no one but children and those who are paid for it. Consequently,
rudeness, crudeness, and lewdness just doesn't pay off, in Thailand as
elsewhere, and I have certainly seen some really crass actors out
there. Many men feel that once they leave their shores they are free
to behave like complete animals.

Let me tell you that Thai women of all segments of society enjoy being
treated like ladies, with gentleness, dignity and respect. You might
get that pussy if you pay for it but if you add respect to the
equation you'll get a whole lot more. You might even end up with a
caring, intelligent and beautiful friend who will save your ass and
assets and bail you out of many difficult situations.

Only girls from poor, rural families in the North and Northeast
(Isaan) fuck for money. Rarely will you find a demimondaine from a
middle-class family or from the South, where Muslim culture has
influence. In the category of those girls who do are many strata of
society. Chinese businessmen and their mama-sans travel the poor,
rural villages every year. Particularly when there is a bad harvest
due to drought or pests, families will be dirt-poor, often without
enough to feed all their children. So a teenaged daughter, 12-16,
really wants to help her family, to make merit for this life and the
next. A small sum of money is loaned to the family, perhaps
B10,000-20,000 ($400-800 USD) and the girl must pay it back twofold by
working. Yes, in essence, this girl has been 'sold' to a brothel,
even though neither the family nor the girl wants this direction to
their lives and really can't imagine the kind of life she will be
forced to lead. In other scenarios, many girls are tricked into
leaving their families by a cunning lover or promises of a job in the
city in a restaurant or hotel, often from neighbouring Burma, Cambodia
or Laos. Some of these teenagers are more tractable than others. Some
girls' virginity is sold, at a premium. If the buyer is a Taiwanese
or other foreigner, many of whom believe in virginity as a talisman of
virility or feel this is the best route to AIDS prevention so they
don't have to wear a condom, the price will be high, perhaps
B7500-10,000 ($300-500). Just as often, that price will fetch a
bladder of chicken blood to stain the sheets. Others need to be
persuaded by beatings and rapes. After all, once a girl is 'ruined',
it really can't matter how many men she fucks. Every medium-sized
town in Thailand has its share of brothels and I firmly believe every
tourist with pussy on his mind should go and have a look at this side
of things.

In Bangkok, one can be taken to brothels that are often numbered
hotels by taxi- or samlor-drivers. Most are short-time, though there
are some true 'lady-houses' where women will go home with you.
Bangkok brothels charge B500-700 ($20-30) for short-time, lady-houses
run B1000-1200 ($40-50). There is no doubt that this class is
miserable and abused, often by themselves--hard drugs, self-mutilation
and suicide are not uncommon. Thai men prize Chiang Mai and Chiang
Rai girls for their white skin, though in general, foreigners don't
care. In Chiang Mai, famous for its many brothels, a visit to the
brothels in the area of the Mai Ping Hotel is recommended as some
English is spoken. These places charge B30-200 ($1.25-8) for
short-time; in general, the girls are not allowed out and fuck 30-40
men per day. Brothels are often called tea-houses, coffee shops or
barbers in Thailand. Brothel girls get to keep half of what they take
in, but of course the management holds it for them. Most of the girls
are poor, rural and unschooled, often illiterate and not knowing how
to keep account books; most work months or even years beyond their
buy-back time when they can choose to remain or to go back to their
village. Some girls get sick or old, too, and return to their
villages early. (HIV-positive women are often shunned in their home
villages). Many more choose to stay and work when their contracts are
upAs weird as this whole scene is (for the Thais as well as for us),
the girls respond to gentleness and generosity with caring and real
emotion. You'll certainly make merit if you treat these women right.
Everybody wants a little bit of romance in their lives, bring them
flowers or something nice to wear. I am not defending this life,
which is not at all pretty or normal, but I don't see any way to
relieve the situation either.

Thai, Japanese, Taiwanese, German and Arab men usually refuse
to wear condoms, but all upcountry brothels now insist on rubbers.
The real danger, to my mind, is not dying of AIDS, though that
certainly is a steep price for pussy, but infecting some or many
others. All other viruses in nature can be caught from a single
exposure, so why not HIV? Open wounds occur from nail-biting, bad
sunburns on the nose (or dick!), biting one's cheek or tongue
accidentally while eating, or abrasions from buck teeth--too much for
a vivid imagination! While it seems common sense that one is more at
risk where blood occurs (many girls don't take days off for their
periods), don't forget that your dick is stuffed in any snatch a long
time.

It would seem that HIV is more easily passed to women from men
because they are the receptacles for cum, but who can rule out the
possibility of catching AIDS from a blowjob? I personally draw the
line at raincoats for a round of head and dental dams for cunnilingus,
but anybody who pays money for sex who doesn't use a rubber might
deserve what they get but they don't deserve to pass it on. Use your
common sense.

Despite the massive AIDS education efforts of former Cabinet Minister
Mechai Viridaiya whose name has become synonymous with condom in
Thailand, this country is still going to be nuked by this disease.
The pay-sex industry, the cultural acceptance of katoey or lady-boys,
the boys doing it for pay in the bars who are not gay at all but come
home to fuck bar-girls, will all take their toll. No cure yet for
cancer or the common cold, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a
vaccine.

There is no way to be guaranteed that the girl you pick is HIV-free.
Even with the most-sophisticated tests (still unavailable in
Thailand), there is at least three-month window in which one may have
been exposed to the virus but will not test positive. Even if you
plan to live with a girl for some months or even marry her, you're
playing three-month Russian roulette. The most conclusive study in
Thailand, done on 21-year old Army recruits in Phrae province in the
North showed an HIV-positive infection rate of 21%; all Thai men
frequent brothels: this is higher than anywhere but Africa and
certainly beats San Francisco.

Remember it's in the interests of big government to keep us men at
home, working, consuming, paying taxes instead of having the freedom
and inspiration of many partners. Perhaps AIDS is a CIA experiment
run amok but now we all have to live with it and make conscious
choices not to hurt others.

In any case, not to bring you down, you should eat at Khun Mechai's
elegant but moderately-priced Thai restaurant, Cabbages & Condoms, on
Sukhumvit Soi 12; the restaurant funds free vasectomies and the
family-planning clinic adjacent.

The next rung up on the ladder are massage-parlour girls. Often these
women are recruited in the same way as brothel girls, but some come to
the job on their own. One thing is certain: they sit behind a huge
one-way plate mirror watching television, knitting, doing their nails
or hair, or reading comic books, wearing numbers to be picked like
fish from a tank, sushi by number. They cannot see the customers and
do not have the option to refuse their services. Often one hundred or
more women wait for their number to be called in the larger
establishments which charge B2000 ($80) and up for their all-inclusive
short-time services. Window shopping will give you an idea of the
variety available.

Any touts or taxi-drivers who bring you to a brothel or
massage-parlour get an end, so if you use them you will be charged the
top rate. Once you expect to pay that price, even if you bring
yourself there, that's the rate. But, remember, bargain for
everything in Thailand and, chances are, if you are firm and threaten
to leave, the price will come down.

There is some dispute about who is at the top of the list, but my
money is on the savvy bar-girls, so next come the women of the
constellation bars and coffee shops. The excellent study by the
International Labour Office of Geneva, From peasant girls to Bangkok
masseuses, states that 82% of all Thai women between 15 and 30 are
getting some on the side for money or favours. (Mostly all Western
women might fit that category, too!) I think that's a pretty high
figure, but the women who work the constellations are only working for
themselves, their children and families.

In case your fantasies, hormones (and jeans!) are running amok, here
might be a good place to mention that you should let your new friend
know what's expected when you get her home. Most Thai girls are into
plain vanilla fucking, providing nature's perfect receptacle with a
minimum of effort, just like all women everywhere. Perhaps half will
get down on that bone (though almost all like getting an enthusiastic
round of head, again j.l.a.w.e.). Many will suggest that you bring
their friend(s), too, and try them all. Believe me, this is easier
said than accomplished. The girls will expect you to try them out
serially and, as this is an economic, rather than sexual, proposition,
they won't be into it too much. Some girls will go home with more
than one man but expect to pay accordingly. Some girls will enjoy a
little lesbian action themselves (more fun for us!), some won't mind
getting it on with couples. If you're in a bar, often the mamasan can
let you know which girls will do what and how much it should cost. A
few will even get into anal sex. Just like all women everywhere. If
you make your proposition and the girl giggles or looks confused,
that's your answer. When you get her home, forcing her is rape, and
there's not any nookie in Thai prisons.

Constellations are after-hours or 24-hour meeting places. The coffee
shops at the Grace and Nana Hotels on Sukhumvit Soi 4, for instance,
cater to Arab tastes in women. The Thermae Coffee Shop, (often known
as HQ among expats), was on the ground floor of the Thermae Massage
Parlour (which opens in daytime only) on Sukhumvit Road adjacent to
the Ambassador Hotel at Soi 13 since Vietnam War days. I have many
fond memories of this place. Now that the old building there has been
sold, Thermae's new digs are only a few doors to the east in the
downstairs part of Ruamchitt Plaza at 199 Sukhumvit. HQ has had the
best selection in town of free-lancers, party girls and bar-girls who
missed getting chosen. Let's hope this punter's paradise will
continue in the new location, open from about 11 pm till 6 am.

If you choose a hotel nearby (not a big, five- or four-star one,
please: they won't let you bring women up to your room after 7 pm or
will want to charge you for the privilege!), and there are many to
choose from, you can easily pull several women a night from this
place. (Did I tell you about the twin sisters???) Rumour has it this
place is owned by cops but so are a lot of the ultra-safe bars.
(You'll never have a complaint in a police bar that isn't resolved in
your favour!) In any case, police in uniform come in regularly to
join the fun. (Did I tell you prostitution is illegal in Thailand?)
There don't seem to be any big time kickbacks and the girls can hang
out all night without ordering anything.

Speaking of food, Thermae's is quite good and inexpensive.
There's no surer way to any woman's heart (and into her pants, even
though you're paying cash for that snatch) than to treat her like a
lady and buy her something to eat and drink. Thai people love to eat
and joke and it will really make both of you feel good, no matter
where you've grabbed her.

Two other constellations worth mentioning are King's Lounge and
Peppermint, both on Patpong 1. Peppermint usually closes at 2 with
the rest of the bars, but King's Lounge (upstairs at the corner above
King's Castle Bar) rocks till dawn. Great dancing (and watching!) in
both these places, a little more rap in King's Lounge. All these
girls are freelancers and get the usual rate. All the hotel discos,
dance palaces and Nasa Spacedrome (on Ratchadapisek Road) will have
available women. Often these women are students, nurses or office
girls. The culture is different--if they put out, you're obliged to
pay them in the morning: these non-professionals should get B1000
before they leave. Remember that a highly-paid secretary only makes
B10,000 a month.

Pussy is not nearly so much fun (in fact, often you can't remember
enough) when you've drunk too much. Nor is it any fun for the girls
to go home with you. Remember that freelancers don't have a bar to go
back and answer to, a job to keep, so if you invite them home, don't
leave valuables out in plain sight. Most of these women aren't
hardened pros, they're young girls not thieves, but it's huMAN natURE,
so don't put temptation out in their way--you both could be sorry.

You'll immediately notice how clean Thai people are. Most have two or
three showers every day. All Thai women smell fresh, healthy and
delicious due to a diet without dairy products and scant body hair.
In contrast, we smell like barbarians to them. Working girls have
mostly gotten used to farang smell, but every Thai girl you bring home
will immediately go and have a shower and modestly return in your
towel. It's 90-100 degrees in Bangkok every day of the year so even
if you've already had your customary daily shower do her the same
favour: join your honey in the shower--it'll pay off later.

I believe it's impolite to discuss money when you invite a girl home,
and Thais are a very polite people. It also lacks class, romance and
mystery. The girl may or may not ask what you intend to give her in
the bar, and you should by all means tell her if she asks. But the
price is always the same, a purple, B500-1000 ($20-40). Any less and
you really are cheating her out of that quim, even for short-time; any
more and you're being taken for a ride. I never mention money, even
back in my room, and always slip her B500-1000 in the morning. It
somehow lets both of you keep your dignity and have a really good
time, to really be 'lovers' for the night. If you find a really fine
girl who treats you just right, give her some extra for a tip. In any
case, treat her to breakfast if she'll stay and always pay her
taxi-fare home.

If you are a cheap Charlie, though, and fight with a girl about money,
don't bother to stay in town long because the grapevine is fast here
and a secret is harder to find than a pussy-hair; this is a sure-fire
way to get ignored and turned down cold by the most fun girls.

The high-class girls are the bar-girls of Patpong (off Silom Road),
Nana Entertainment Plaza (on Soi 4 or Soi Nana off Sukhumvit Road) and
Soi Cowboy (between Soi 21 or Soi Asoke and Soi 23 off Sukhumvit).
These women are paid a small salary and the customer pays a bar-fine
for loss of her services when he goes home with a girl, usually
B200-400 ($8-16), plus the usual nightly fee directly to the girl.

Although these girls are free agents, they often borrow money from the
bar and become bonded to the owners. Remember that bar-fines are over
usually an hour before closing time, so midnight or 1 am. Bar-fines
get expensive, so you might want to arrive at closing time hoping for
that perfect tightie. Be aware, though--often the best women have
been pulled closer to opening time for some nookie, dinner, some
nookie, some dancing or a movie, more nookie, a little sleep and some
good-morning nookie to start the day off right. If you treat her
right, you might even get some more after breakfast.

Some popular bars with spectacular women (many of the Patpong bars of
the [rather expensive! ] King's Group come to mind) will ask more;
their girls may even ask for double the going rate. Whether or not
they should get it depends on several factors. First and most
important is chemistry: if the chemistry is right between you, are you
really going to argue over $20? It's possible (though unlikely) for a
bar-girl to make $1500 a month--does that sound like a lot of money to
you? (Think about how short a bar-girl's working life is.) Secondly,
are you there in high tourist season, is the place packed or is it the
rainy season and almost closing time? Don't just be an asshole: use
your leverage.

I'd be happy to take my sainted grandmother to most any of the go-go
bars in Bangkok. One-piece bathing suits are the norm. A few bars at
Soi Cowboy or Nana Plaza offer topless and even bottomless (with an
eye out for the law). These bars are less regulated than the Patpong
bars. There's also less noise and confusion and less traffic here than
Patpong, less competition but also fewer choices. I've found many of
the girls here to be gentler, less experienced.

How to pick the perfect girl out of all this variety? My rule of
thumb is to pick the best dancer even if she isn't necessarily the
youngest or most beautiful girl in the place. She'll have that spark
of fun you want and she'll dance on your dick till you think you've
died and gone to heaven. Smile: it's the second best thing you can do
with your lips -- Bangkok T shirt slogan.

Most Thai women think it's weird to give head. They like to get it,
for sure, and I've never heard a rational explanation for this. It's
called 'smoke' as in cigarettes and most girls you take home from bars
or constellations won't get down on that bone. In massage parlours,
smoking is often offered as a girl's specialty. But in Patpong
there's a solution--get that blowjob before you take a girl home!
(Only in Thailand!) Two upstairs bars offer au go-go and a round of
head by three girls of your choice, rubber or not. If you're shy,
there's a private room overlooking the street which you share with
some friends getting some--it's a pretty upfront amazing scene; in the
back room the girls will take off their clothes, too. If you prefer,
you can get off right in the bar while watching the dancers with three
beauties under the table. B500-700 for one to three girls. I've
always been hoping to get a girl with no teeth at all, but it hasn't
happened yet!

Remember that nowhere in Patpong do you need a tout to show you the
ropes; usually they'll only show you to the places that overcharge
anyway. Kangaroo Pub (upstairs) has all women from Udon Thani and
Rose Bar from Khon Kaen, both in Isaan, so there must be great
grapevine recruitment! Canadian author Christopher G. Moore calls
these places 'skull bars' (from your perspective on the girls) and
finds them degrading, demeaning and impersonal. And these women
certainly swallow quarts of jism. But they all love having a toke in
the back room with you and going out after closing for dancing or a
bite. Gentlemen: this is unbelievable head. You certainly can't go
wrong inviting one home and it's the same price in the morning.

Supergirls (upstairs) in Patpong deserves special mention:
these girls are especially young, delicious and nekkid. (This place
also has a back room, but no aircon and full of mosquitoes!) The show
here, too, is full of imagination. I usually don't have much jam for
live sex shows but I keep going trying to recapture the magic of my
first where a lovely pulled fresh orchids on a string out from between
her petals, handing the string to the first row and passing it back
for twenty feet! Quite spectacular! The women who can shoot darts,
make baskets with pingpong balls, open bottles and smoke cigarettes
have always been a little scary for me--want one to go home with
you???

The owners of Supergirls are planning a new bar, so we can look
forward to more of a good thing!

In all bars the girls get half the profit from each cola you buy them
(how much Coke can you drink?). I often give a girl the price of a
drink as a tip; it's better for her. However, the girl is expected to
bring in money for the bar, so she simply can't cuddle, kiss and
fondle all night without a drink in front of her. Talk it over with
her and work out her own needs with those of her boss. Also note, I
said cuddle, kiss and fondle--this has wide latitude. But it
definitely does not include grabbing and groping, pulling, squeezing
and pinching the cuties--to my mind, that's just assault. While we're
at it, some men want a bar-girl to have a real drink with them, beer,
Mekhong, tequila. Imagine doing this every night for eight hours!
You'll find that many of the sweetest girls with that real Thai nature
don't drink or smoke and taste like heaven!

In any case, the reason the bar-girls are at the top of the list is
that they are all free agents and if they don't like you (or aren't
that desperate for the money), they'll simply turn you down.

Child prostitution and any sort of pornography are illegal
here. The legal minimum age for sexual consent is 15, but if you are
paying for playing, the minimum is 18. What constitutes a child may
not be the same to Thai police as seems quite clear to you and your
delicious "child"-woman. There are some wonderful 13-year olds on the
game out there but stings and set-ups are not unknown. Sometimes this
is just a shake-down for money but it will definitely be expensive for
you. The sensational cases in the Thai news sound like set-up jobs
from here, but Thailand is under a lot of pressure from Western
governments under the direction of the customary thought police, the
USA. Some reciprocal laws have been enacted to brand known
"paedophiles", notably in Australia and Germany, and prosecute them on
return to their own countries.

I think I've offered you years of experience for free here. I've
visited 63 of Thailand's 75 provinces with one thing in mind; I've
lived in brothels in many provinces. Bernard Trink's 'Nite Owl'
column in Saturday's Bangkok Post cannot, of course, afford to be as
direct as this article, but you'll find great info on the local scene
and where the ripoffs are--highly recommended.

If you come to Thailand with an open mind, try to be as gentle and
generous and understanding as all Thai people and show respect for
Thai culture and customs (especially Buddhism and the King) you'll
learn a lot and you'll certainly get laid. If you treat your visit
with the proper attitude I guarantee you'll make lifelong friends and
expand your consciousness. Personally, I would never even consider a
white woman again. If you're not prepared to give this much, you
should stay at home with Mama Fist and her five daughters--all poor
countries have seen enough exploitation by the rich. Thailand is a
wonderful place that does not deserve to be infected by colonialism
and racism.

In May of 1992, I saw hundreds of unarmed, ordinary people gunned down
by soldiers whose orders came only from too much pride, too much ego,
too much power. General Suchinda's first mandate as prime minister
was to eliminate all AIDS education in Thailand. To me, this meant
that he cared more for the tourist dollar than for Thai people. Don't
fall into the same trap. My nom de plume is a noble from Thai
mythology who has two wives.

Enjoy, learn and respect! Khun Chang

Doctor Moon Ray

unread,

Aug 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/31/99

(This text - originally the second part of a text headlined "Thai by

Night, some background and a reading list" - was posted unaltered by
Doctor Moon Ray from Atta's World Sex Guide. Follow THREAD to see the

previous part of the reading list and of the "Thailand: General info"

section of this Guide. Go to http://www.deja.com/~worldsexguide to see
the entire WSG.)

Guidebooks
----------

Joe Cummings, Thailand, A Travel Survival Kit, Lonely Planet,
Berkeley, 1992

Edward Sonner, Zen Buckaroo's Pattaya Wildlife Guide; Wildlife Guide
to the Fantasy Fauna of Phnom Penn [sic]; Southeast Asian Wildlife
Field Guide to Angeles City, Sherman Oaks, 1996 <z...@qnet.com>

W.G. Hill, Sex Havens, or, Whore and Piece, Scope International,
Forestside House, Rowlands Castle, Hants PO9 6EE England UK, e-mail:
<sc...@britnet.co.uk> 1993

Jacques Chessex, Nights in Bangkok and Pattaya, Orient X Press, no
date

Bangkok's Backstreets, Excogitations, Pasadena, now pirated

In and Around Chiang Mai, ibid.

Alan Dawson, Patpong, Bangkok's Big Little Street, Thai Watana
Panich, Bangkok, 1988

John Sinclair, Bangkok By Night, CFW Guidebooks, Hong Kong, 1981

John Cadet, Monks, Mountains and Magic, Explorations of Thailand,
ibid., 1991

[in Japanese]: Toshio Shoji, Solo Travel for Men, KK Bestsellers,
Tokyo, 1993

Thailand Night-Zone Guidebook, Datahouse, Tokyo, 1994

Language
--------

Joe Cummings, Thailand Phrasebook, Lonely
Planet, Berkeley, 1984

Christopher G. Moore, Heart Talk, White Lotus,
Bangkok, 1992

Bud Knackstedt & Oiy Ford, In the Bedroom, Out of
Trouble: The "only" intimate phrase book for Thai, 1996, Dane
Publishing [86 Pickford Pde, Warrnambool, VIC. 3280 Australia or 406
N. Hayden Bay Dr., Portland OR 97217 USA

John Clewley, Making Out in
Thai, Yenbooks, Tokyo, 1994

Newsletters
-----------

The Erotic Traveller (formerly Farang XXX Sanuk [FXS] and Asia File ),
Womanizing in SE Asia Fanzine, 5 issues per year, subscriptions $50,
sample $10: POB 278537, Sacramento CA 95827 USA

Zen Buckaroo News, 15445 Ventura Blvd
#436, Sherman Oaks CA 91403 USA Third World International Traveller
(TWIT), 6 issues per year, subscriptions $40, sample $5:
Excogitations, POB 6260, Pasadena CA 77506 USA [ceased publication?]

Travel and the Single Male, available on-line only, Compuserve:
71035,2272; America On-Line: aol(TSMTravel); Internet:
tsmt...@aol.com: TSM Publications, 3600 South Harbour Blvd., Suite
122, Channel Islands CA 93035 USA $10: Excogitations, POB 6260,
Pasadena TX 77506 USA

Bangkok Review, 6 issues per year, subscriptions $15, sample $5: POB
93, Patpong Post Office, Bangkok 10506 Thailand [ceased publication?]

Vide! Asia Blue: Astral Ocean Cinema, Astral Plaza, POB 931753,
Cherokee Avenue, Hollywood CA 90093 USA, catalogue $10.00

L.B.F.M. Productions: Box 8110-279, Blaine WA 98230

PVS Publications, 1223 Wilshire Blvd #651 Santa Monica CA 90403 USA,
e-mail: <macg...@earthlink.net>

Zen Buckaroo, Edward Sonner, 15445 Ventura Blvd. #436, Sherman Oaks CA
91403

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I wrote the article above in 1993, not a great deal has changed
but my attitude has softened somewhat and become more compassionate.

And there are a few things I forgot to say on the first go
round. Patience, sensitivity and sympathy go a long way toward
building relationships in any country. This is even more true in
Thailand than in the West because Thais themselves are such patient
people. You should make your girl feel special by being sensitive to
her moods (gold chains always seem to improve them!) and show sympathy
for her needs, too. In all likelihood her biggest concern will be for
her family's material wants, though certainly you will encounter
greedy girls, too.

Obviously, don't let yourself be conned, bilked or milked for money
but it is not unreasonable for a girl to ask for money for her family
if you develop a longer-term relationship. Most girls do this work
out of poverty.

'Good' Thai girls don't ever allow
touching, hugging or kissing in public, let alone more serious
pawings. To do so immediately labels a girl as a prostitute.
Although prostitution is by and large accepted and tolerated in
Thailand, it is not admired, and any girl who walks with you will be
so labelled anyway. So try to put yourself in her shoes and think
about how difficult this must be. Treating your girl with public
respect especially if you meet her family will make her much more
loving to you. 'Good' girls will also expect appropriate dress in the
city to walk with you; tank tops, beach shorts and thongs in town just
show you have no manners.

I can't stress strongly enough that you must pay attention to these
details. All these give your girl great face in the Asian way and
will lead to opportunities to give her a lot more face in your room,
too. Most girls will put up with you anyway but she won't like you
for it.

In Thailand, you will alway lose any argument in which you show anger.
Thai people prefer cool hearts and, really, it's not so pretty
anywhere else in the world either. If temper tantrums are common to
you, stay at home.

Although prices have stayed much the same since I wrote this article
(just after the introduction of the B1000 bill), many girls will no
longer stay overnight. They want to maximise their earnings by being
offed several times every night for short-time. If you behave
yourself properly, you will improve your chances of satisfaction for
your money. After all, we don't want Thailand to become like the
West. Consumerism promoted by the West has already changed Thai
values greatly.

I don't see anything amiss in paying for sex but I do see trafficking
in women as heinous and reprehensible. While fewer Thai girls are
being duped by recruiters in upcountry villages and far fewer are sold
as bonded or indentured sex-slaves, trafficking has moved to those
with less education: hilltribe girls, Burmese and Yunnanese girls to
Thailand Vietnamese peasant girls to Cambodia, Nepalese village girls
to India. The incidence of foreigners marrying Thai girls only to
turn them out for sex in their own cold, grey countries has also
become very common. I hope these people die an ugly death. Don't
support this heartless scene with your money--your karma couldn't
stand the extra weight--and rescue someone if you ever see the chance.

While there has not been the AIDS explosion among bar-girls that most
expected, some of this is due to condoms and some to camouflage. When
a bar-girl tests HIV-positive, she may well be forced to move on to
freelance or brothel w! ork where there are fewer questions
asked. The HIV+ numbers are dropping in Thailand, however, we have
seen the rise of a new HIV subtype E which is supposed to be far more
transmissible heterosexually. There has been some discussion
surrounding its transmission by unprotected head but, personally, I
think if we have to go to this extent, life would be far less worth
living.

1998 meltdown addendum: The value of the baht is now half its
previous. Prices in January have not yet gone up, though they will,
particularly imported goodies. I live here because I don't like to
sleep with imported girls, so in fact, the local price for domestic
pussy has gone down if you're spending foreign currency. Some Patpong
girls will ask and get B3000 (now USD$60) for all night, still cheap
at the price. More freelance, moonlight students and office girls are
available at the constellations, discos and after-hours venues,
typically B1000-1500 ($20-30). It's a great time to be here! Amazing
Thailand!

(Follow THREAD to see the next part of the "Thailand: General info"

Doctor Moon Ray

unread,

Aug 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/31/99

(This text - originally the second part of a text headlined "Avoiding
tourist traps" - was posted unaltered by Doctor Moon Ray from Atta's

World Sex Guide. Follow THREAD to see the previous part of the

"Thailand: General info" section of this Guide. Go to
http://www.deja.com/~worldsexguide to see the entire WSG.)

I returned from a 9 month teaching assignment in Thailand a couple of
months ago and the situation there is changing quickly. As the Thai
bubble
economy implodes, the often heavily indebted operators of tourist and
prostitution businesses targetet towards foreigners get more and more
desperate.

Criminal elements from Europe (incl Eastern European Mafia which loves
to
vacation in the Tropics) and other Asian countries are taking over
control
of more and more of the lucrative "ferang" (foreigner) trade. However
those
are staying away in greater and greater numbers. Prices are falling in
response to decreased demand.

The latest two scandals around the most notorious of all (sex-) tourist
resorts, Pattaya (~150 km east of Bangkok) must have been another big
nail
in the coffin of Thai tourism.

1) The poison killings of over 140 male tourists over 1995 and 1996 by
prostitutes and pimps which was well covered up by the local coroners
and
police (official causes of death: "drug overdoses" or "heart attacks").
A
fodder for the tabloids. All world media had a field day.

2) The negligence fire at the "Royal Jomtien" ***** hotel in July '97
where
over 100 foreign and local guests died because the emergency exits were
padlocked ("So nobody can slip out without paying") and the emergency
services were slow at arriving. Then the injureds' and deads'
possessions
were looted by firemen and medics!

But Thailand still can be fun and a great bargain if you avoid any
businesses targeted at foreigners and local rich people. I rented a nice
furnished studio apartment (1-rm flat) in a Bangkok suburb for only 1500
Baht per month (US$60.- at the time, but the exchange rate is quickly
changing in your favour now).

My place on the ninth floor had a great view from the balcony over some
lakes, canals and marshes. No A/C but a nice breeze from the gulf would
blow in the afternoon. Downstairs was a food store, a restaurant with
billiards room and Karoake, a barber shop and a great olympic size
SWIMMING
POOL, where the entire neighbourhood of middle class locals and their
kids
met.

My classes were in the late afternoon when I was picked up by a
chauffeured
company car. I was the only ferang (foreigner) in the entire
neighbourhood
and an instant celebrity, even though I made no special effort to be
accepted or popular, and I do not consider myself better than average
looking. I made no effort whatsoever to impress anybody, dressing up in
shirt, trousers and tie only for classes, and otherwise in crumpled
shorts, T-shirt and sandals.

Since I like watersports I spent most of my days in and at the pool.
Visiting mothers and fathers would introduce me to their minor
daughters.
Girls would follow me around, even into the men's room. They'd ask me to
teach them how to swim, so physical contact was quickly and easily
established. And of course they all loved to practice their school
English.

As readers of the WSG probably know by now, Asian and especially Thai
culture tolerates, even encourages some sexual behaviour which is
strictly
"verboten" in Eurocentric cultures. Without going into detail let me say
I
was fortunate to have many such opportunities, without ever having to
spend
any money of offer gifts up front. When I did it was because of real
affection. The smallest presents were accepted with immense gratitude.
-- I
did not spend one night alone, unless I wanted to, and almost forgot how
to
masturbate.

Of course I had the advantage of a lengthy stay. But even the casual
short
time visitor can find similar opportunities. Instead of hanging out at
bars, discos, billiard parlors and other unhealthy entertainment places
he
(and "she" too, lesbians are welcome in TH) should visit wholesomer
locales
like: beaches, public parks and swimming pools, festivals, markets,
"physical", i e traditional Thai massage salons (as opposed to brothels
camouflaged as "Body Massage"). My strategy: spend the days making
contact, the nights making love. Not the other way around like night
owls
and bar flys tend to do. That's healthier and more economical too.

The average Thai people are very much into sex and will flirt with you
readily, and are quite willing to "do it" with you, sometimes right then
and there. However as anxious they seem to be to have the experience,
one
does not talk about it and one does not make it overt. In public, only
whores will embrace or kiss you, or just walk hand in hand with you .

If you insist on experiencing the night life, again, stay away from
venues
catering to foreigners. Practically every restaurant, coffee shop, bar,
Karoake, small hotel in the country becomes a brothel at night. Look for
the places with lights arranged like a triangle or Christmas tree up
their
facades, often purple or pink. Freelancers and resident staff will take
the first step and accost you, and if you have "special" desires they
will
procure them for you. Just ask, in English or in sign language. The
language of sex seems to be universal. And usually somebody with enough
English is around to interpret if needed.

The fees at "locals'" places are of course much lower than in the
"Patpong"
district or in the bars and brothels of Pattaya and Phuket. The going
rate
is about 100 Baht (now about US$3.75) for a "short & straight" visit,
anything above will buy you as much of time as you want or any fetish
you
need. Freelancers often do not mention money, so as not to "loose face',
but will gladly accept any amount, will love you for a small gift of
clothing or cosmetics.

Stay in small hotels in residential areas. Less money, more "hits". Near
the BKK airport I "got lucky" several times at the "Don Muang Mansion "
(600 Baht/night, A/C), only 500 m (yds) from the Intl Terminal at 118/7
Soranakom Rd. There are several small businesses with attractive female
staff, even a "Physical Massage" parlor, on the ground floor. In Pattaya
I
got to "know" several of the female staff and manager's relatives very
well
at the "Royal Knight" Hotel (300 Bt/nt, A/C) at 362/9 Soi 5 (5th
Street).
On Samui the "Island Resort" (250 Bt/nt) on Lamai Bch was veru
"accomodating". Don't worry about reservations, there are always plenty
of
rooms available everywhere (except during major holidays, like Xmas, New
Year's and Songkran, i e 1st Weekend in April). Follow the advice
elsewhere
in this resource: Do not use agents of any kind. That jacks up the
prices
immediately by 30 to 50%.

Freelancers of any sex and age hang out everywhere: at "food courts" in
shopping malls like "Big C", at busy bus stops and terminals, you'll
recognize them. If you make a mistake, no big deal. Nobody will give you
any hassles. Best time is the early and mid afternoon when school's out
and Lolitas cruise the bus stops, malls, beaches and parks looking for
men
to entertain for fun and pocket money. On the other hand, if you notice
one
of them in a public place after midnight, you know what she's looking
for.

I took a couple train trips to Koh Samui Island in the South and Chiang
Mai
up North and found the situation even better than around Bangkok and
Pattaya. Those bunks in the A/C sleeper car make a very cozy and
romantic
love nest, by the way..

Transportation: Avoid the infamous "Tuk-Tuks" (open three-wheelers)
they're
for suckers. Use only licensed, metered, air conditioned Taxis and make
sure the meter is turned on. Get in and go, do not negotiate the
destination or fare. No tipping required. The drivers have to take you
anywhere you wish in or out of town, and cannot charge you more than
what
the meter reads. If they get intimidating just get out at the next
traffic
light, toss them whatever the meter reads and walk away. Never have your
luggage locked in the trunk. -- Motorcycle taxis (you recognize them by
the
numbered vests on the drivers) have no meters, so negotiate the fare
beforehand. Usually 10 to 30 Baht for a trip of 0-3 km. Anything farther
is
too uncomfortable and scary. Take "Song Theaws" (pick-up trucks with two
benches and a roof in the back which run along all the main roads) for
short trips) and meet the locals. As cozy and erotic as any Japanese
subway
"chican" (frotteur) could want it. Cheap too: 3-5 Bt.

Local city buses are awful (except the private MicroBus service), dirty,
rattly, hot and often dangerously maintained and driven (sometimes by
drivers on amphetamines). Long distance buses run by the state,
especially
the air conditioned ones marked "VIP" usually are OK and a good
bargain.
The best deal are the newer, unlicensed shuttle vans which go everywhere
in
the country, locally and long distance, for much less than taxis and
only a
little more than public buses. Trains are slow and terrible for long
distances in coach class, but if you can get a reservation for a sleeper
car with A/C, go for it. A tolerable train service runs from BKK Don
Muang
Airport (follow the yellow sign in the Intl Terminal) every 20 min or so
south to downtown and north, sometimes all the way to Chiang Mai. There
is
even one train in the morning from Bangkok Central Stn to Pattaya.

Good general Info sources:
http://www.ait.ac.th/Asia/infoth.html
http://www.tat.or.th/

Doctor Moon Ray

unread,

Aug 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/31/99

(This text was posted unaltered by Doctor Moon Ray from Atta's World Sex

Guide. Follow THREAD to see the previous part of the "Thailand: General
info" section of this Guide. Go to http://www.deja.com/~worldsexguide to
see the entire WSG.)

Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 01:48:49
Subject: Some advice on bars in Thailand

Here's some sencible advice from Meestah John on how to behave in the
girlie bars in Thailand. What you read here applies especially to
the open air beer bars you'll find in great numbers at the beach
resorts such as Pattaya or Phuket's Patong Beach. These are bits of
wisdom that I haven't seen anywhere else on the World Sex Guide pages.

When you go into the kind of Thai bars that are saturated in pink
neon, you will generally fare if better if you:

TAKE IT EASY. This is the very first precaution and one that you
should take to heart even before you leave your hotel room. The whole
environment that you are about to enter is likely to be assaultive to
your senses and your hormones. The bars at places like Pattaya,
Patpong, Soi Nana, Patong are side by side in limited areas, and they
compete with each other by turning up the volume of the music. The
prostitutes often scream and holler to attract your attention. Lights
flicker. Sex is in the air. - This is likely to produce a state of
erotic hysteria, and it can make you go bonkers in a way that is not
productive to good experiences.

You will notice the effect on some males that frequent these places -
round midnight you will see some disheveled figures who have pissed in
their pants, crying in their last beer at the now deserted bars.

There is no need to get worked up and going down that way. You will
inevitably find that sweet beautiful orchid fantasy girl of your wet
dreams. If she is not there in the first bar, she'll be at the next
... or the next. Don't worry. The more you keep your cool, the more
likely you are to meet her.

And the more likely she will be to accept your proposal when you
approach her. There are few things Thai prostitutes dislike more than
a moody, brooding, emotionally unbalanced costumer. It makes their own
bad feelings come alive. To them it ranks along with lack of personal
cleanliness and rude manners. So they will look towards the composed
and good spirited men first, and they will treat such a man better
than the feeble wretch.

There's a rythm to the night bar scene at places like Pattaya and
Patong. The action start rolling around eight o'clock. The sex market
reaches its peak between 9 and 10 pm when most costumers have finished
their evening meal and now go out in search of adventure. That is the
hour when the greatest number of women are available and looking for
business. The closer you get to midnight, the more the bars become
empty of people. After midnight you will mostly meet the human
debritus of the adulturous night.

MAKE FRIENDS WITH THE BAR OWNER. When you sit down at a bar and order
a drink, take your time. Eye the girls, talk amiably with them. And
try to establish a good rapport with the owner of the place if he is
at all there. The bar owners generally are jovial and nice to their
guests. After all they are the very people he lives on, and he is in
fierce competition with his colleagues who are everywhere around
him. Your opinon of his bar matters to him. (Notice the first class
cocktails they serve. You won't get a better Mai Tai anywhere, not
even at the Ritz in Paris. This is what a free market does.)

Moreover, the bar owner is the one who hires and fires the girls you
are after. In his world their purpose is to attract men like you. So
they will immediately notice if you and him are becoming pals. The
girl is likely to state a more sensible price for her favours if you
want to strike up a deal, and she will definately not try to cheat
you. In fact she will be a bit extra kind to you for fear that you
might say something negative about her working spirit to your pal, her
boss.

DO NOT OVERPAY THE GIRLS. This will only empty your wallet and
contribute to the vicious circle that has destroyed (to my mind)
places like Patpong and Pattaya.

At Patong, where the market still makes sense, the proper price should
be 600 baht for a short time and 100 baht to the bar for taking the
girl away. But greed is also at work here, and most girls will start
out demanding 1000 baht for herself and 300 for the bar.

As for me, I am willing to pay more than 600 to her - if she is
nice. But no more than 1000 at the very most. 600 is fair, and the
distance up to 1000 is negotiable. What I like the best is a decent
600 for starters and then a possible tip according to her performance
and to my good heart, after the fact. But I don't like to get fleeced
from the beginning.

IN CASE YOU HAVE YOUR MONEY STOLEN BY A BARGIRL, complain immediately to
the bar owner. He will not like it at all, it ruins the reputation of
his business, and he has the right connections to the police.

But please ask yourself "is it really true that she took my money?" An
acusation of this kind can have very serious consequences for the
girl. It could land her in prison for a year.

There is an authentic insident where a patron accused a girl of
stealing his wallet. He went to the bar owner who went with him to the
police. Everybody, including the girl, went to his hotel room - where
the wallet was found in the freeze department of the fridge. He had
put it there himself for safety and forgotten about it. The bar owner
rightfully made him apologize to the girl in front of the police
officer and pay her five thousand on the spot.

BRING YOU OWN CONDOMS. Thai condoms are often not safe due to bad
storage conditions. And bring "dry" rubbers, without lubricant or
creme. It has a bad chemical taste to it, and it will make the girl
gag. If you need lubricant, bring a tube of K.Y. and apply that at the
moment before penetration.

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