You people are crazy!!
teky...@macconnect.com
I'm a newbie to the list and I confess I have NOT attempted to build my
own ESLs, although I've contemplated it. My electronics knowledge is
extremely limited compared to what I've read by you pro's on the forum.
Plus, I don't have access to the tools that make this easier. But, I'm
happy to read about the cool things you guys are trying and hopefully,
I'll pick up a few interesting tidbits along the way...who knows, maybe
I'll actually find the time to venture into a project like this.
I own Acoustat Model 2's with Medallion upgrades (although, I've read
there are several Medallion upgrade paths...the current costing $1900
from Rockford? Anyone know what that's about? It cost me something like
$400 10 years ago, also from Rockford).
Believe it or not, I use the stats in my home theatre rig. The
surrounding speakers are not ESLs however. Sure, it has some drawbacks,
but on the whole, its believable. The one thing I've always wanted is an
ESL center channel. The almost-$2K Martin Logan center channel is
appalling at that price. That's when I started looking into how to build
my own. I think the curved stators are the way to go on this one, so I
gave up on the idea figuring it was too difficult. I'm curious what your
thoughts are?
What about making three small panels, or squares, about 1ft square at
slight angles with the center panel firing straight at center? I'm not
sure how small you could make these. They don't have to do deep bass
(and at that size, I don't expect they would), but they should get down
to 100hz so the sub can do the rest...
Yes, yes, my naivete is apparent, I know. Thanks in advance for any
feedback.
Regards, Jeff
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Barry Waldron
teky...@macconnect.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> I'm a newbie to the list and I confess I have NOT attempted to
> build my own ESLs, although I've contemplated it. My electronics
> knowledge is extremely limited compared to what I've read by you
> pro's on the forum.
Hello Jeff,
Those of us who construct our own ESLs, do it for several reasons:
first, there is the challenge; second, is the cost factor; third,
is the fact that for that cost we want performance equal to or superior
to factory products. A knowledge of electronics is not absolutely
necessary, although being able to stuff a PCB and solder components
is handy. Otherwise, you will probably have to enlist the help of
a friend. What is necessary is the ability to work with woodworking
and other basic hand and power tools plus the skills to construct
items.
> Plus, I don't have access to the tools that make this easier.
If you lack woodworking equipment, very often you can borrow
someone elses. If you lack basic power and hand tools, then
you can very often acquire these from hobby and/or hardware
stores. Some builders have a local cabinet shop cut out the
enclosures. So, there is always a way to make this happen.
> But, I'm happy to read about the cool things you guys are trying
> and hopefully, I'll pick up a few interesting tidbits along the
> way...who knows, maybe I'll actually find the time to venture
> into a project like this.
Time is relative to what you budget. If you want to build a speaker
system, then you have to budget time, just like the money to fund the
project. I often recommend that people spend 30-45 minutes before
and/or after work, rather than wait for a day off. Days off can often
be appropriated for other projects. Working a little at a time keeps
the interest level high with visable progress. Waiting for a work
day weekend can be frustrating to some because the anticipation of
having to spend all day on the project. Interuptions can often side-
track progress. Regardless of what suits a person's work style,
everybody is usually able to find time.
> The one thing I've always wanted is an ESL center channel. The
> almost-$2K Martin Logan center channel is appalling at that price.
> That's when I started looking into how to build my own. I think the
> curved stators are the way to go on this one, so I gave up on the
> idea figuring it was too difficult. I'm curious what your
> thoughts are?
You are correct, curved panels are the best approach. The task of
assembling curved panels is more difficult than that for making planar
cells. The effort can be reduced by minimizing the amount of curvature
built into the speaker. Very often it is only necessary to have perhaps
fifteen degress at most. I have a curved panel calculator in compiled
BASIC that will calculate the degree of curvature necessary for a given
listening width. Let me know if you are interested.
> What about making three small panels, or squares, about 1ft square at
> slight angles with the center panel firing straight at center? I'm
> not sure how small you could make these. They don't have to do deep
> bass (and at that size, I don't expect they would), but they should
> get down to 100hz so the sub can do the rest...
An arced array is not appropriate because of the Venetian Blind effect
caused by the boarder width of two adjacent panels. This causes a dead
spot at the listening position. An arced array is only practical if
a stereo pair focus on a seat.
From all that I have read about HT, a center channel subwoofer is
overkill. The center channel speaker is only required to lock the
dialog coming from the center of the screen.
An ESL can be made to operate at or below 100 Hz., however, Fs is
typically around this figure so employing a crossover point in this
range is inviting trouble. A couple of solutions exist. The first
is to cross the panel over at a much higher frequency to a 5" woofer.
The second is to use a "full range" contour network. A suitable
schematic for such a device can be found on my web site. It will let
the panel operate below Fs and with greater output, and, without the
need of a (sub)woofer.
Information on how to construct and assemble a curved electrostatic
loudspeaker can be found in the Electrostatic Loudspeaker Design
Cookbook; by, Roger Sanders. Information on the book is also on the
site.
As an aside, curved panels operating full range, are also well suited
for the rear channels, thus eliminating the problem you have with
discontinuity.
Barry
ESL Information eXchange
http://www.jps.net/eslinfo
.
teky...@my-deja.com
Thanks the words of encouragement. I checked out the link you provided
at the bottom of your post. Knowing that all the parts/components are
available from a single source sure makes the idea more inviting.
Just curious, do you recommend I try a small project first, probably just
a single planar panel before launching into a curved panel?
Yes, I can solder, and stuff a PC board...but I don't have experience
making a PC board from scratch. Doesn't seem like that's necessary
anyway with the parts online? I know the difference between a cap,
resistor, diode...the basic stuff. I have some woodworking skills, but
no tools. I do know some family members that do and they would probably
help me build a frame.
I'll look into the resources you recommended and of course, I'll be
asking
questions along the way.
Thanks again, Jeff
Barry Waldron
teky...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Thanks the words of encouragement. I checked out the link you
> provided at the bottom of your post. Knowing that all the
> parts/components are available from a single source sure makes the
> idea more inviting.
Only the unique specialty items are avilable in one place. You must
still shop for glue, stator materials, misc. etc., elsewhere.
> Just curious, do you recommend I try a small project first, probably
> just a single planar panel before launching into a curved panel?
This question reminds me of one I posed to my flight instructor before
leaving on my first l o n g cross country flight into unfamiliar
territory. Expressing my apprehension, he told me that a long journey
was no harder than the short ones I was familiar with. A long trip is
simply comprised of a series of short ones. (Now, that seemed easy.)
Ordinarily, I would advise a person to dive right in; however,
constructing curved stators and assembling a curved speaker introduce
some techniques not encountered in building flat panels. So, I would
recommend building a flat panel of the same size, first, in order to
familiarize yourself with frame assembly, gluing, and coating the
diaphragm. Once you have experience with these steps, try your hand at
framing a pair of curved stators and tensioning a curved diaphragm.
(Two methods for making curved panels are presented in the cookbook.)
> Yes, I can solder, and stuff a PC board...but I don't have experience
> making a PC board from scratch. Doesn't seem like that's necessary
> anyway with the parts online?
I have not progressed to the point of being able to offer PCBs for the
various circuits. The artwork is supplied in order to make your own
using one of the photo etching packages.
>I have some woodworking skills, but no tools. I do know some family
>members that do and they would probably help me build a frame.
The easiest and least expensive type of stator construction is to
fashion a frame out of Plexiglas and covering it with Lincane
perforated aluminum. Laird Plastics http://www.lairdplastics.com
can cut the various pieces and UPS them to you. Although your project
is small, I find it much handier to pay them a small surcharge to cut
the plastic than to get my fingers close to the saw blade!
The company can also supply the Devcon epoxy in syrup form along with
the Weldon solvent to join the Plexiglas strips.
> I'll be asking questions along the way.
Ask away!
Barry