Is anybody out there?
shar...@my-deja.com
I can check my messages while I listen! (It took practice!)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
b_st...@my-deja.com
I've watched this forum since it started, after an initial flurry not
much has been posted. Currently I am building my own ESL's which has
been interesting. I was inspired by Roger Sander's "cookbook". I
wonder how many others have built/are building their own 'stats out
there. :o)
GARY GENDEL
and hope to put together a construction article in the near future. I can't
see how to greatly improve the sound or asthetic quality, and spend most of my
free time listening to music rather than chatting on the net. I love seeing
the expression of a non-audiophile when he/she first listens to them. ESL
listening is a unique and rewarding experience.
I decided to build my own design when I couldn't find a reasonably priced
speaker that gave me the thrill of the the Dayton Wrights when they were first
introduced. I scoured the state for months listening to everything I could
find. I did hear a SoundLab full-range that was spectacular... for $27,000 a
pair! Even if I had the money, these were way too wide for my location.
I always try to offer advice when I think I'm qualified, but most of the
questions are based on specific commercial speakers I have no experience with.
However, now that I've said that, I'm interested in what experiences people
have had with passive crossovers in hybrid designs. Currently, I'm using an
electronic crossover in a hybrid ESL/TL design. The biggest drawback is the
inability to use my Stax electrostatic headphones with the energizing unit
that is driven from the amp. I'm working on a line amp driver now to solve
the problem, but a simpler solution would be a passive crossover at the
speakers.
I'm greatly concerned about the degradation in sonic quality, so I was
wondering what people have observed with this approach.
Lance Dow
> Well, I've finished my first pair (http://pluto.njcc.com/~genashor/Speakers)
> and hope to put together a construction article in the near future.
Your first pair? What an absolutely stunning piece of work! Congratulations.
> I can't
> see how to greatly improve the sound or asthetic quality, and spend most of my
> free time listening to music rather than chatting on the net. I love seeing
> the expression of a non-audiophile when he/she first listens to them. ESL
> listening is a unique and rewarding experience.
Indeed.
There may not be much that you can do to improve the sound of the speakers, but
it might be worthwhile looking at the rest of the system. I say this because
I've been following the progress of Roger Sanders' commercial speakers, the
Innersound Eros. I've heard them at the London Hi-fi show every year since their
launch. Last September they were demonstrated with a very upmarket CD front end
- the DCS Elgar 24-bit/192kHz up-sampler, with both valve and transistor power
amps. They were absolutely stunning! When I got home my ESLs sounded dead in
comparison (they don't normally sound dead). So I'm looking to improve the
electronics in my system this year.
> I always try to offer advice when I think I'm qualified, but most of the
> questions are based on specific commercial speakers I have no experience with.
Likewise. In addition to that, this forum has been extremely quiet of late.
There isn't much to discuss if people don't ask questions or post their
experiences.
> However, now that I've said that, I'm interested in what experiences people
> have had with passive crossovers in hybrid designs. Currently, I'm using an
> electronic crossover in a hybrid ESL/TL design. The biggest drawback is the
> inability to use my Stax electrostatic headphones with the energizing unit
> that is driven from the amp. I'm working on a line amp driver now to solve
> the problem, but a simpler solution would be a passive crossover at the
> speakers.
I actually think this line amp is a better solution. Ok, it's one more box, but
hopefully it will be designed specifically for the purpose. Headphones driven
with a speaker level signal is a compromise solution. Doing this AND degrading
the signal to the ESL sounds like a thoroughly bad idea to me.
There's an interesting design for an electrostatic headphone amp on the Tube CAD
site <www.tubecad.com>. A dedicated amp designed to be driven by a line level
signal might be an even better solution.
Happy listening.
Lance
PS
One possible way of improving your sound might be to use a passive line level
filter at the input of the amp driving your ESL. The few passive components
needed might be more transparent than the active circuitry you've used.
PPS to b_st...@my-deja.com;
I, too, built my ESLs based on Roger Sanders' writings. I should have a
description and photos on my audio club's Web page soon. I'm more than happy to
discuss them in the meantime if you're interested.
b_st...@my-deja.com
Lance Dow <ell...@ldow.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> PPS to b_st...@my-deja.com;
>
> I, too, built my ESLs based on Roger Sanders' writings. I should have
a
> description and photos on my audio club's Web page soon. I'm more than
happy to
> discuss them in the meantime if you're interested.
Yes, I'm interested. What type of system did you decide on?
(fullrange, hybrid, etc.) Did you run into any problems building
them? How about the sound? I would like to see them, care to share
your club's web address? Sorry for all the questions.
So far I have built 2 working panels but had to tear them down due to
construction errors. Keep in mind I am very "green" and this is my
first project. One of the panels sounded good but wouldn't take very
much bias voltage because I did not manage to get enough diaphram
tension. Currently, I am waiting on some more Mylar so nothing has been
done the last couple of weeks. My overall plan is the "no compromise
hybrid" type. ESL's will be 6 ft. tall by 1.5 ft. wide next to a
large T/L. I still have a long ways to go.
Lance Dow
Sorry for taking so long to reply to this. Messages from the forum are
supposed to be delivered by e-mail but, for some reason, this one
wasn't. I just happened to be browsing the forum this morning and found
it.
You wrote:
> Yes, I'm interested. What type of system did you decide on?
> (fullrange, hybrid, etc.)
Originally I intended using them full range. My listening room is small
and I sit about 8 feet from each speaker. I made the panels 4ft x 1 ft,
which is about the same radiating area as the Quad ESL63. I'd heard
these playing quite loud so I figured it would be ok. For various
reasons it didn't work out so I've now added a TL woofer to the system
and I run the system bi-amped.
>Did you run into any problems building them?
A few... mostly to do with my chosen method of construction. My stators
consist of plastic 'eggcrate' grids with a fine mesh bonded to the
surface. I had a bit of trouble making the bonds strong enough. Stresses
in the mesh would cause it to bubble and pull itself free of the
plastic. I eventually got round that by ironing the mesh into the
surface of the eggcrate.
I too had problems with diaphragm tension. I built a version of Mark
Rehorst's stretching table which more or less cured that.
> How about the sound?
The sound is superb - ESLs CAN'T sound bad!!! They've responded
positively to many changes in other parts of the system. The most recent
change is to drive them directly from the anodes/plates of the output
valves/tubes - bypassing both the step-down and the step-up transformer.
A big improvement.
> I would like to see them, care to share your club's web address?
The club's URL is;
http://www.geocities.com/london-live/
You won't find the pictures there yet. They should be ready by the
weekend. I'll let you know.
> Sorry for all the questions.
No problem. I offered.
Later.
Lance