A baffling situation
gm...@my-deja.com
question about an issue that, quite frankly, boggles my mind. I was
hoping that someone in this forum could shed some light on it. In my
search for an American made 50's type MA1 repro, I contacted Brent's
Sportswear. Brent's makes very authentic MA-1 and L-series repros.
They told me they were a private label and could not sell direct. I
emailed them and said, 'Okay, fine. Send me a list of retailers I
could contact.' They sent me Alpha's address. I emailed back, 'Great,
thanks... Alpha doesn't make anything close to being a decent
reproduction of a 50's MA-1. I was kind of hoping to purchase one of
yours.' They replied by saying that they only sell to the Japanese
market! Brent's jackets sell there for $300 - $500 a pop. I emailed
again, 'Okay, who in Japan can I contact?' They never replied. Does
this make sense to anyone? Why are American companies manufacturing
clothing and sending it direct to foreign markets and, in a sense,
refusing domestic purchases. The wholsale price to these countries
can't be that huge... or maybe I'm wrong. Spiewak, who makes an early
MA1, told me the same thing (I don't really know much about their MA1
quality... but they did sell me a Tanker jacket once from the factory
at wholesale and it was terrible!). I suspect the answer is that the
market for these items is certainly booming in Japan and that the
market would be limited here... but even as a niche it seems that some
form of limited domestic distribution wouldn't be that bad of a deal.
It just seems odd to me to have to shop in Japan for an item that is
already manufactured in the US... bizarre. Anyone have any thoughts on
this?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
tc...@my-deja.com
Check my e-bay item 377857282.
It's gone!
By the way it's made in Japan.
US reproduction jacket never reach such detail level!
It's sad but true!
Japaness buying these America made jackets are paying for " MADE IN US"
Sometime " MADE IN US" is very important for people who live outside
the US!
I saw the AlphaS it's just a littel haveier than current MA-1!
They called it Vintage? I never buy those! I saw them before!
If you want to buy one send me an e-mail at tach...@hotmail.com
I will tell you the source to get one but you pay more!
It's in UK!
ken...@my-deja.com
stockist. Once a label goes on sale, discounted, the brands reputation
is wrecked. It's not worth risking a good brand name in Japan for a few
sales that might (or might not more than likely )end up in Japan
and "kill the goose that lays the golden egg". We have conpanies from
all over the world trying to buy Aero jackets to resell in Japan,
luckily the sizes are a givaway, but orders with small sizes mixed in
with large sizes, say for the USA, give us real problems. Bottom line
is, the home market is not paying as well as the Japanese market.
Ken @ Aero
Timbo
no response at all, which made me almost as mad as not being able to
get the jacket in the first place. I gave up after making the rounds
regarding this last year but had tried a few times before. It seems
ridiculous that we can't get those items here (not that they are that
great) but as was stated, it's business first...
I want a correct late-model B-15 repro really bad, but still refuse to
pay an outrageous mark up for it. I've resigned myself to waiting.
--
Tim
swing...@my-deja.com
gm...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Haven't posted for ages. Hope you are all doing well. I have a
> question about an issue that, quite frankly, boggles my mind. I was
> hoping that someone in this forum could shed some light on it. In my
> search for an American made 50's type MA1 repro, I contacted Brent's
> Sportswear. Brent's makes very authentic MA-1 and L-series repros.
> They told me they were a private label and could not sell direct.
I've got a Brent's L2B, that I bought off of eBay for around $70. I'm
pretty unimpresed with it. If they are selling the same thing now in
Japan for $300+, they are getting away with robbery.
gm...@my-deja.com
too high! Thanks for the info on the quality, Swinglover, I've always
valued your opinion.
aur...@my-deja.com
swing...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8ksn29$3lq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> gm...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > Haven't posted for ages. Hope you are all doing well. I have a
> > question about an issue that, quite frankly, boggles my mind. I was
> > hoping that someone in this forum could shed some light on it. In
my
> > search for an American made 50's type MA1 repro, I contacted Brent's
> > Sportswear. Brent's makes very authentic MA-1 and L-series repros.
> > They told me they were a private label and could not sell direct.
>
> I've got a Brent's L2B, that I bought off of eBay for around $70. I'm
> pretty unimpresed with it. If they are selling the same thing now in
> Japan for $300+, they are getting away with robbery.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
Durn it!
Another nylon maker relegated to the reject bin along, oh well Brent's
Sportswear is with good company like Alpha, Spiewak, and RMJP. However
I'm still confident Mash Co. will make a decent nylon repro.
aur...@my-deja.com
Timbo <timbo...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <8ksn29$3lq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> gm...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > Haven't posted for ages. Hope you are all doing well. I have a
> > question about an issue that, quite frankly, boggles my mind. I was
> > hoping that someone in this forum could shed some light on it. In
my
> > search for an American made 50's type MA1 repro, I contacted Brent's
> > Sportswear. Brent's makes very authentic MA-1 and L-series repros.
> > They told me they were a private label and could not sell direct. I
> no response at all, which made me almost as mad as not being able to
> get the jacket in the first place. I gave up after making the rounds
> regarding this last year but had tried a few times before. It seems
> ridiculous that we can't get those items here (not that they are that
> great) but as was stated, it's business first...
> I want a correct late-model B-15 repro really bad, but still refuse to
> pay an outrageous mark up for it. I've resigned myself to waiting.
> --
> Tim
>
Can we say Spiewak? :P
I think through the process of elimination we are left with the Mash
Co. as our last, best hope for a decent nylon jacket.
ken...@my-deja.com
several better Japanese makers than MASH
Ken @ Aero
aur...@my-deja.com
> >
> You obviously don't know the Japanese market very well, there are
> several better Japanese makers than MASH
>
> Ken @ Aero
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
Like who? Buzz Ricksons? Cab Clothing? I hear both of them have
nylon jackets less highly rated than RMJP, which isn't a good sign.
I've already discounted RMJP as a maker of 100% authentic nylon
jackets. They may replicate the stitching inch for inch, patter for
pattern, but the Materials aren't very authentic. Their jackets really
qualify for the "almost but not quite" award. Yes, I do recommend them
if you have no other choice and are willing to sacrifice quite a bit of
money for something that isn't 100% authentic.
RMJP certainly produces a lot of styles and has a very large selection
that varies from season to season.
Who else do you suggest we try? Alpha? Avirex? Spiewak? Brents
Sportswear?
Feh, I think not.
tc...@my-deja.com
I have to say maybe you are wrong!
(No because you returning my L-2B.)
How many RMJP jackets you have been touch? ( I have MA-1,L-2B,G-8,B-15C
[MOD],CWU-36P, also I had Alpha, Avirex before, I saw Spiewak and
Flight suit as well!) The L-2B is a Nitro fade one-actually Richard
sent this by mistake!
I received a regular one but size is wrong so they sent the Nitro fade
one! You say MASH is the best? Did you have one! or just because the
MASH use NOS surplus material(nylon shell)and Crown zipper to produce
the jacket? How about the pile? If you said the MASH produce the most
vintage reproduction nylon jacket I would agree with you! No offense!
How about Tanker? ELC or MASH?
Here I would like to say RMJP nylon jacket is my first choice!
Timbo
aur...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8ktg3o$klm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> swing...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <8ksn29$3lq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > gm...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > Haven't posted for ages. Hope you are all doing well. I have a
> > > question about an issue that, quite frankly, boggles my mind. I
was
> > > hoping that someone in this forum could shed some light on it. In
> my
> > > search for an American made 50's type MA1 repro, I contacted
Brent's
> > > Sportswear. Brent's makes very authentic MA-1 and L-series
repros.
> > > They told me they were a private label and could not sell direct.
> >
I'm
> > pretty unimpresed with it. If they are selling the same thing now
in
> > Japan for $300+, they are getting away with robbery.
> >
>
> Another nylon maker relegated to the reject bin along, oh well Brent's
> Sportswear is with good company like Alpha, Spiewak, and RMJP.
However
> I'm still confident Mash Co. will make a decent nylon repro.
>
performs as an $80.00 jacket...has been riding around behind the seats
of my truck since late '96 but does come in handy during the occasional
surprise rainstorm.
--
Tim
aur...@my-deja.com
I think we'd both much rather have $500 jackets that perform like $500
jackets. It took me 9 months to run my Alpha Nylon CWU into the
ground, it cost me $80.
aur...@my-deja.com
>
> I have to say maybe you are wrong!
> (No because you returning my L-2B.)
> How many RMJP jackets you have been touch? ( I have MA-1,L-2B,G-8,B-
15C
> [MOD],CWU-36P, also I had Alpha, Avirex before, I saw Spiewak and
> Flight suit as well!) The L-2B is a Nitro fade one-actually Richard
> sent this by mistake!
> I received a regular one but size is wrong so they sent the Nitro fade
> one! You say MASH is the best? Did you have one! or just because the
> MASH use NOS surplus material(nylon shell)and Crown zipper to produce
> the jacket? How about the pile? If you said the MASH produce the most
> vintage reproduction nylon jacket I would agree with you! No offense!
>
> How about Tanker? ELC or MASH?
>
> Here I would like to say RMJP nylon jacket is my first choice!
>
No offense taken.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Matter of preference I
suppose.
I'll say this, the stitching on the RMJP was exact and the quality of
the materials was there. What was missing was the authenticity of
everything (I'm not talking about the nylon color, that was to be
expected with a Nitro Fade.)
Do you feel the Nitro Fade L-2B represents the companies product line
poorly?
The Mash Co. Tanker Jacket is identical to the Eastman, only the color
differs, the Eastman is "bronze", the Mash Co. is Tan/Khaki.
Do you have a Mash Co. nylon jacket?
tc...@my-deja.com
I don't have a MASH Nylon jacket.
As I point out Nitro fade actually is more difficult to produce!
It's a brand new nylon shell and try to make it like been expoursed to
sun for certern times!
Although personal I don't like the Nitro fade but I think RMJP worth to
encourage about their try! These shell isn't so easy to produce lots of
time and money have to invest!
You should see the standard issue! ( Ma-1, G-8 or Cwu/36P )
Also please don't forget one thing in Japan!
They buy jacket in the store!
Japanese can compare the different brands within a day!
Except MASH only have two stores in Japan!
Japan also has military show every year!
Men/women dress up like soliders or polits and attend the show! (
uniforms in different countries and time period!)
Here unless you near the store otherwise.....
I saw different brands in my friend's store in Taiwan!( off course all
nylon jackets some are the real vintages!)
Also I can read at least 20% of Japanese-they adopted Chinese many many
years ago! At least I could understand more detail than most of people
here!
Also I have sent a letter to MASH long time ago!
I try to get one of MA-1 with orange lining!
I didn't get any respones!
I personally won't deal with such company!
Unless they toatlly can't read English!
Also another big problem for other Japan brands-they don't produce BIG
SIZE! Only RMJP could supply big size to market! Why?
ken...@my-deja.com
>
> Also I have sent a letter to MASH long time ago!
> I try to get one of MA-1 with orange lining!
> I didn't get any respones!
> I personally won't deal with such company!
> Unless they toatlly can't read English!
>
> Also another big problem for other Japan brands-they don't produce BIG
> SIZE! Only RMJP could supply big size to market! Why?
They do speak English, I'm told. It's just that very few Japanese
Clothing outfits have any interest in selling to the West. We have
great difficulty getting anything except Hawaiian Shirts, Vintage
Sweatshirts and Lee Denim. It has not been for want of trying or for
want of a big enough order, believe me!! Also, even when they do make
goods in XL, it rarely fits over a 44". Only the Hawaiian Shirts fit
true to US sizes, but that probably as they have been copied accurately
from originals, XL Hawaiian's are, after all, easier to come by than XL
Flight Jackets.
Ken @ Aero
aur...@my-deja.com
tc...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8l0l3i$ue1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> aur...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I have to say maybe you are wrong!
> > > (No because you returning my L-2B.)
> > > How many RMJP jackets you have been touch? ( I have MA-1,L-2B,G-
8,B-
> > 15C
> > > [MOD],CWU-36P, also I had Alpha, Avirex before, I saw Spiewak and
> > > Flight suit as well!) The L-2B is a Nitro fade one-actually
Richard
> > > sent this by mistake!
> > > I received a regular one but size is wrong so they sent the Nitro
> fade
> > > one! You say MASH is the best? Did you have one! or just because
the
> > > MASH use NOS surplus material(nylon shell)and Crown zipper to
> produce
> > > the jacket? How about the pile? If you said the MASH produce the
> most
> > > vintage reproduction nylon jacket I would agree with you! No
> offense!
> > >
> > > How about Tanker? ELC or MASH?
> > >
> > > Here I would like to say RMJP nylon jacket is my first choice!
> > >
> >
> > I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Matter of
preference
> I
> > suppose.
> >
> > I'll say this, the stitching on the RMJP was exact and the quality
of
> > the materials was there. What was missing was the authenticity of
> > everything (I'm not talking about the nylon color, that was to be
> > expected with a Nitro Fade.)
> >
> > Do you feel the Nitro Fade L-2B represents the companies product
line
> > poorly?
> >
> > The Mash Co. Tanker Jacket is identical to the Eastman, only the
color
> > differs, the Eastman is "bronze", the Mash Co. is Tan/Khaki.
> >
> > Do you have a Mash Co. nylon jacket?
> >
> As I point out Nitro fade actually is more difficult to produce!
> It's a brand new nylon shell and try to make it like been expoursed to
> sun for certern times!
> Although personal I don't like the Nitro fade but I think RMJP worth
to
> encourage about their try! These shell isn't so easy to produce lots
of
> time and money have to invest!
> You should see the standard issue! ( Ma-1, G-8 or Cwu/36P )
> Also please don't forget one thing in Japan!
> They buy jacket in the store!
> Japanese can compare the different brands within a day!
> Except MASH only have two stores in Japan!
> Japan also has military show every year!
> Men/women dress up like soliders or polits and attend the show! (
> uniforms in different countries and time period!)
> Here unless you near the store otherwise.....
> I saw different brands in my friend's store in Taiwan!( off course all
> nylon jackets some are the real vintages!)
> Also I can read at least 20% of Japanese-they adopted Chinese many
many
> years ago! At least I could understand more detail than most of people
> here!
>
> I try to get one of MA-1 with orange lining!
> I didn't get any respones!
> I personally won't deal with such company!
> Unless they toatlly can't read English!
>
> Also another big problem for other Japan brands-they don't produce BIG
> SIZE! Only RMJP could supply big size to market! Why?
>
I guess we'll both be getting the Mash Co. B-15B and L-2 now that we
have no excuse not to. You should have contacted HPA if you wanted a
nylon jacket from Mash, as you know Mash Co. deals with the Japanese
market and not the American. Hardly qualifies them as "that sort of
company", a company is only loses face with me when I see a bad example
of their product line. Like the L-2B made with the incorrect conmar
zip slider for the contract. For the money I spend I expect little
details like that to be taken care of. I think RMJP would be benifited
by a "Golden Book" type side by side comparison. So far Eastman and
Mash are the only companies who have dared to do such a thing.
As far as I know Mash Co. gets the exact same sizes Eastman does. RMJP
doesn't exacty produce big sizes, if their XL fits like a medium, then
their XXL probably fits like a L.
I might even get a RMJP B-15B to do a side by side comparison with the
Mash Co. B-15B, whichever jacket I feel is inferior I'll send back.
Now that I know I'll need a XXL in RMJP sizing, it should be a simple
matter.
What I propose is this, I'll get the Mash Co. B-15B and you get the
RMJP B-15B, then we swap the jackets and give our evaluations of the
products. I think we can trust each other to be honest about this sort
of thing. So how bout it? I'll give RMJP one last chance if you give
Mash Co. the same chance.
ken...@my-deja.com
Wow, Nice advert Guys!
Ken @ Aero
tc...@my-deja.com
> Before you buy.
I am no interesting in B-15B.
I might try to get a MA-1 with orange lining!
Honesty speaking- I think every Nylon jacket have different cutting!
L-2b XL size I think like 42! My B-15C[MOD] is size L! It's really hard
to say how you pick the right size-special for BIG size!
All the nylon jackets production need some kind of back up ability!
The sew machine must meet some US AIR Force standard. MASH just a small
company in Japan! Who do the job? I really doubt about it! Frankly
speaking I will go RMJP first then Buzz! They both have big clothing
company behind them! Like the re-enforcement you need a special mechine!
Long time ago RMNZ's director even told me their Buzz was made in Korea!
Once RM also sell Buzz!
I saw lots of vintange nylon jackets so that's my confidence to buy
jackets from RMJP! Also by the way as I said before. I buy the jacket
with my budget! It really doesn't matter for me who is number one!
I like my Aero Rally(?) coat! I also like my ELC Roadstar! I am not
that kind of picky person! I enjoy all my different brands jacket/coat!
( except Alpha current issue MA-1). As long as I enjoy it I am happy!
Who is number one here doesn't real matter to me. I also keep a very
good realtionship with Richard we talk about family we trust each
other! Richard even buy some thing in Japan for me after he mail to me
and told me how much it cost then I mail my check to Japan! I think we
should make friends here and not to criticize each other about their
jackets! No every one can afford $500 to $1000 on a leather jacket! I
mean A-2 not equal to ELC/Aero/LW just like Rolex do not present all
the watches! Every one here have their right to pick their favorite
jacket based on service/hide/price......!
aur...@my-deja.com
From what I understand Mash Co. nylons are special editions with quite
a lot of time and effort put into them. Just like anything in the
ELC "Rough Wear" series. I also understand that it must be of the same
authentic standards as anything ELC makes.
The Mash Co. B-15B will probably come with the Crown zips as well as
the L-2 they are considering producing.
What did Richard have to say about the Mash Co. L-2B which is supposed
to be superior to any RMJP nylon?
You ought to ask charles if he can't track you down a Mash Co. MA-1,
Large sizes are gone from what he's told me. I don't know if you could
fit into a true medium.
Charles HPA
aur...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> From what I understand Mash Co. nylons are special editions with quite
> a lot of time and effort put into them. Just like anything in the
> ELC "Rough Wear" series. I also understand that it must be of the same
> authentic standards as anything ELC makes.
That is absolutely correct. I have no gain in endorsing that which is no
longer available, so if you can ever get one slightly used, it *will* be
the best of its type made by *any* manufactuer. When I used to sell to
the Japanese at the GWS, some of my buyers would offer to purchase me
items from Japan as gifts, and many of these buyers had connections w/
RMJP and Buzz. I saw all the RMJP and Buzz Rickson nylon over time, and
though it is extremely nice stuff, and the *best* in mass production, I
never accepted one single freebie. Instead, I *chose* to *buy* various
jackets from MASH. That was a choice based solely on my concept of
overall authenticity, and my taste is positively for the stitch-for-stich
authenticity in a repro.
>
> The Mash Co. B-15B will probably come with the Crown zips as well as
> the L-2 they are considering producing.
Correct again. When these are made, I'll certainly be amongst the first
in line. I don't care if US buyers deal w/ MASH or me; I'm not their
agent (they don't have any), just a friend who has the greatest respect
and admiration for the work they do w/ various textiles. Those who value
my experience and opinions and want MASH products at prices less than in
Japan, are welcome to buy at HPA. It comes as no surprise to me that
MASH buyers are also ELC buyers.
>
> What did Richard have to say about the Mash Co. L-2B which is supposed
> to be superior to any RMJP nylon?
>
> You ought to ask Charles if he can't track you down a Mash Co. MA-1,
> Large sizes are gone from what he's told me. I don't know if you could
> fit into a true medium.
>
Sorry to say, but all sizes are now exhausted. I didn't buy the
orange-lined MA-1, it's too late for my personal taste, but the 1st model
MA-1 or L-2B w/ green lining were no brainers. The B-15C (Mod.) I also
passed on, though it was a fab. piece. Blue nylon is great as a
collectible, but for wearing, well, it just reminds me of a security
guard's jacket. No disrespect intended toward security gaurds, but some
of their clothing items are simply barf city!
Next to my custom Luftwaffe leather jackets, the MASH L-2B is the sexiest
jacket in the closet.
--
Chas.HPA