Philips instant fit bypass

[Pablo Stewart-Harris]

I bought some instant fit (you put your led fluorescent lamp on existing ballast) LEDs T8 for my basement and not sure if the ballast is bad or is not the right model, anyhow, I was wondering since the circuit is very basic (one cap on one side, a diode bridge on the other end and about 152 led on a strip all connected together) if anyone can figure out what would it take to run them straight into 110v. Shall I do a simple circuit? or straight out plug them with 110 on both ends. 

Any suggestion is welcome, thanks!

Pablo 

5000k T8 LED model: http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/products/product-highlights/instantfit

[Ken Craig]

Pablo,

I’ll be no help with your actual question, but I haven’t seen these bulbs and I’m surgeons.  What’s the driver for going with a solution that uses the existing ballast rather than just a new power supply for the LEDs directly?  Simplicity is obvious, but won’t that solution be significantly less efficient?  Is there some big cost savings up front? 

Cheers,

Ken

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[pablo Stewart harris]

The idea behind the ballast is that you don't need an electrician to change hundreds or for difficult access fixtures. I don't like the idea of a high voltage, magnetic field generating extra circuit under my bed, that is my main motivation other than cost (half price and known brand with reliable data). 

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[Ken Craig]

That make sense, especially for the quantity and access issues vs just a couple at home.  My electrical knowledge is just sufficient to keep me from killing myself (so far), so I wondered if I was missing something obvious.  And that was supposed to be curious, not surgeons BTW :-)

Cheers,

Ken

[Bill]

If you’re handy with wires you can rewire an existing fixture for the across-the-line tubes but a mistake could be deadly. I would recommend just replacing the whole fixture instead. The price is low enough these days to justify the cost, it’s not much more than the price of the tubes.

 

Bill

[Rus Wood]

I must be missing something here so apologies in advance.. but why don't you take out the ballast and use LED bulbs like we have at the makers? They were super easy to rewire and I would think the electricity savings would be significant. 

Rus

Rus Wood

REALTOR

PalmerHouse Properties & Associates

404-931-3444

[Pablo Stewart-Harris]

I went to home depot to get those and they didn't have one with the color temperature I wanted, so I went for this that were really cheap.

Then my ballast turned out faulty, so I explored this option. I thought if they where somehow hackable in a simple way, a great source for cheap led. 

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[bsan...@comcast.net]

If you are comfortable with rewiring your fixture then the straight wired lamps like we have at the space are probably a better choice.

And yes, they were super easy for a couple of electrical engineers to rewire. :)

Bill


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[Pablo Stewart-Harris]

They are easy to wire indeed, I'll play with the variac this week and see what can I do. Worst come to worst I'll buy a new electronic ballast. 

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[Rus W]

I rewired several and I only play an electrical engineer on TV.

Don't you feel silly now, wasting all that money on Skool!

Rus

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[bsan...@comcast.net]

I learned everything I know from watchingyou! ;)

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[Phil Turmel]

Wiring such a strip straight to 110V or 120V is risky, at least for
longevity. Root-Mean-Square assumptions for power consumption through
LEDs are invalid, as I follows e^V, not V/R. The 152 LEDs, assuming a
simple .7V forward voltage constant, will conduct way more current than
the designer would expect once the voltage waveform exceeds ~107V.
House voltage peaks at 155V to 170V. You really need a ballast to keep
the current draw down at the peaks.

On 04/09/2017 10:14 PM, Pablo Stewart-Harris wrote:
> They are easy to wire indeed, I'll play with the variac this week and
> see what can I do. Worst come to worst I'll buy a new electronic ballast.

Regards,

Phil Turmel, Owner
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[Pablo Stewart-Harris]

There is my answer! Thanks Phil, I will hook the tubes to a analog multimeter or oscilloscope a monitor what is going on through the cycle of the ballast. 

[Sam Lysinger]

I am not sure of this is helpful to the discussion or not, but this has been my experience with LED replacements for existing fixtures.

 

I bought T8s that run straight 110 and had to bypass my ballasts at the shop on the recommendation of the folks at batteries plus.

 

I found that one brand had pins on opposite ends of the light to power it and another brand used the 2 pins on the same side of the light to power it.  They don’t tell you this at the store or on the package.  They also don’t tell you that the little metal receivers for the lamp pins have to be modified or replaced if your bulb uses 2 pins on the same side for power.  I took some of them apart and modified them for fun and would replace them with the correct part going forward as it is much less time consuming.

 

(After making them test my faulty bulbs in the store and giving them and IEC cable to chop and test it, they do tell their customers about the pinouts for power and the little receiver fixtures now.  They recommend replacing the receivers if this is the case.)

 

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From: decatu...@googlegroups.com [mailto:decatu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Stewart-Harris
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 10:06 AM
To: Decatur Makers Google Group <decatu...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [decaturmakers] Philips instant fit bypass

 

There is my answer! Thanks Phil, I will hook the tubes to a analog multimeter or oscilloscope a monitor what is going on through the cycle of the ballast. 

 

 

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[bsan...@comcast.net]

White led's have a 3.4v approx forward voltage or some multiple of that.




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[Phil Turmel]

Doesn't really change the point though. However the LEDs were actually
wired to split up ~110V, they're still going to have a non-linear
current response to voltage. You need a ballast to limit the current at
the peaks.

On 04/10/2017 10:57 AM, bsan...@comcast.net wrote:
> White led's have a 3.4v approx forward voltage or some multiple of that.

[Pablo Stewart-Harris]

is there any other work around this or is highly complicated (not just a capacitor or similar) and better of just getting the ballast for them?

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[Newton White]

Probably belongs in a different thread but Rob and I determined the LED strips seem to broadcast a lot of RF energy across several bands used by the Amateur Radio service. We had to  turn all the lights off while we operated yesterday in the GA QSO party.  

We will investigate if we can reduce the noise with ferrites or some other means.   Please let us know if you have any other ideas!

Newt

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[pablo Stewart harris]

I thought nothing was worst than magnetic ballast and thought LED's where pretty much safe in that aspect.

Sent from my iPhone

[bsan...@comcast.net]

They probably have a pwm chopper in them. Great little rf generators. Hopefully it's just conducted, not too much radiated






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From: kon...@me.com
To: decatu...@googlegroups.com
Cc:
Sent: 2017-04-10 11:18:40 AM
Subject: Re: [decaturmakers] Philips instant fit bypass

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[Newton White]

We exchanged a battery for the power supply on the DM radio and heard no difference in the rf noise. The ‘chirp’ rate was about 240-300 Hz (guesstimate!). The antenna does run parallel to the light strips just above the roof so it was in the ‘best’ configuration to receive the rf. We also heard  the same noise on another receiver setup on the picnic table outside the building, again on battery power - the portable antenna for that rig  was perpendicular to the permanent antenna which should have more of a null facing the rf from the lights. It seems to be more radiated than conductive.

[pablo Stewart harris]

I'll let you know when I do, shooting for Thursday 

Sent from my iPhone