Notes on Google Hangout, Feb 22
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Thomas Gokey
Feb 25, 2012, 6:37:09 PM2/25/12
to debt-strike-...@googlegroups.com
Here are the notes from our Google Hangout last week:
1) Can we improve on a pledge based system for a debt-strike like the one used by the Student Debt Refusal Campaign?
2) A successful debt-strike is going to need more than just a well designed platform, it will need real organization.
Who are we going to target? Specific lenders? Specific kinds of debtors?
Sallie Mae is biggest student lender and would make the best target.
We need programmers to talk to economists. None of us are programmers or economists.
What might a debt-strike platform look like: Lots of notifications and reminders built into it.
Should we build a platform that can do lots of different things or just one big thing? This means organizing rather than building. Greg favors picking one thing.
Philip is an organizer working on a corporate accountability network.
Greg will sketching out wire-frames and work-flows.
Sarah will be at a teach in on March 7th at New School with Andrew Ross and others.
On April 25th there will be a student debt day of action, although we don’t know what this means.
The Occupy Student Debt Refusal Campaign is set up but just sitting there, it’s raising consciousness about the issue but not really organizing around it.
Thomas is working on a debt forgiveness project that will buy up and forgive defaulted debt. This could potentially get folded into a debt-strike but it’s not clear if it can successfully scale up.
We need economists to get involved.
7 to 10 million people will take new student loans out next year. Is a one-million person debt-strike enough? The point is to get enough people to make the banks and government scared. It’s like forming a union.
Sallie Mae is a good target. Discover (secondary boycott).
Credit cards that go into default get 15% of the money back, student loans get an unprecedented 85% back making them an extraordinary investment.
Some questions and answers:
Q: How are people actually paying back their loans? A: They pay them back directly unless the government has hired a servicer (sp?) (since 2010).
Q: How much debt do these institutions own? How much will hurt them? A: These institutions are not very transparent, so we might not be able to learn the answers to these questions.
More research is needed:
Philip’s group has hired two researchers who will be taking a look into student debt and will share their research.
Making a debt-strike work is about creating networks of trust. It’s the same dilemma that faces forming a union (should we create a debtors union?). In a real union, you can see your fellow workers strike with you. In the virtual world there isn’t that same accountability. The platform that we are trying to build will need to create this kind of mutual accountability and trust, one that minimizes personal risk while maximizing the chances of success and the potential reward. But more than a platform is needed, real organizing is needed.
Moving forward:
Greg will be building some wireframes and workflows just to get started (a rough outline that can be build on later)
Sarah is researching a new article that touches on debt and will be attending conferences and introducing us to others working on the same topics.
Philip is working on a corporate accountability project and will share his researchers results.
Thomas is working on a debt forgiveness campaign and will make some videos explaining the need for organizing around debt.
--
____________________________________________________
Thomas Gokey
The Art School in the Art School | Department of Wonder and Joy
Syracuse "University" | VPA Foundations
Time Arts | Two-Dimensional Creative Processes
w: thomasgokey.com
e: thoma...@gmail.com
____________________________________________________
This e-mail is a handmade object, all errors of spelling and grammar give it a sense of character and authenticity.
Gmail's algorithms search the contents of our e-mail for keywords which it uses to customize the advertizements it shows us. Google tries to be sensitive, however, and disables the ads if you are writing about tragic subjects. If the algorithm finds keywords like "massacre," "slaughter," "bloodbath," or "murder" it will not show you ads. Since I just used them here, in my signature, I'm ad free.
1) Can we improve on a pledge based system for a debt-strike like the one used by the Student Debt Refusal Campaign?
2) A successful debt-strike is going to need more than just a well designed platform, it will need real organization.
Who are we going to target? Specific lenders? Specific kinds of debtors?
Sallie Mae is biggest student lender and would make the best target.
We need programmers to talk to economists. None of us are programmers or economists.
What might a debt-strike platform look like: Lots of notifications and reminders built into it.
Should we build a platform that can do lots of different things or just one big thing? This means organizing rather than building. Greg favors picking one thing.
Philip is an organizer working on a corporate accountability network.
Greg will sketching out wire-frames and work-flows.
Sarah will be at a teach in on March 7th at New School with Andrew Ross and others.
On April 25th there will be a student debt day of action, although we don’t know what this means.
The Occupy Student Debt Refusal Campaign is set up but just sitting there, it’s raising consciousness about the issue but not really organizing around it.
Thomas is working on a debt forgiveness project that will buy up and forgive defaulted debt. This could potentially get folded into a debt-strike but it’s not clear if it can successfully scale up.
We need economists to get involved.
7 to 10 million people will take new student loans out next year. Is a one-million person debt-strike enough? The point is to get enough people to make the banks and government scared. It’s like forming a union.
Sallie Mae is a good target. Discover (secondary boycott).
Credit cards that go into default get 15% of the money back, student loans get an unprecedented 85% back making them an extraordinary investment.
Some questions and answers:
Q: How are people actually paying back their loans? A: They pay them back directly unless the government has hired a servicer (sp?) (since 2010).
Q: How much debt do these institutions own? How much will hurt them? A: These institutions are not very transparent, so we might not be able to learn the answers to these questions.
More research is needed:
Philip’s group has hired two researchers who will be taking a look into student debt and will share their research.
Making a debt-strike work is about creating networks of trust. It’s the same dilemma that faces forming a union (should we create a debtors union?). In a real union, you can see your fellow workers strike with you. In the virtual world there isn’t that same accountability. The platform that we are trying to build will need to create this kind of mutual accountability and trust, one that minimizes personal risk while maximizing the chances of success and the potential reward. But more than a platform is needed, real organizing is needed.
Moving forward:
Greg will be building some wireframes and workflows just to get started (a rough outline that can be build on later)
Sarah is researching a new article that touches on debt and will be attending conferences and introducing us to others working on the same topics.
Philip is working on a corporate accountability project and will share his researchers results.
Thomas is working on a debt forgiveness campaign and will make some videos explaining the need for organizing around debt.
____________________________________________________
Thomas Gokey
The Art School in the Art School | Department of Wonder and Joy
Syracuse "University" | VPA Foundations
Time Arts | Two-Dimensional Creative Processes
w: thomasgokey.com
e: thoma...@gmail.com
____________________________________________________
This e-mail is a handmade object, all errors of spelling and grammar give it a sense of character and authenticity.
Gmail's algorithms search the contents of our e-mail for keywords which it uses to customize the advertizements it shows us. Google tries to be sensitive, however, and disables the ads if you are writing about tragic subjects. If the algorithm finds keywords like "massacre," "slaughter," "bloodbath," or "murder" it will not show you ads. Since I just used them here, in my signature, I'm ad free.
Jennifer Hensley
Feb 25, 2012, 8:22:53 PM2/25/12
to debt-strike-...@googlegroups.com
Awesome notes, Thomas. Thanks for doing this. I'm sorry I missed the
hangout, but
I did want to say how excited I am about everything that was discussed.
I'm not an economist or programmer either, but I do want to lend any of my
talents or abilities in any way I can. I'm a writer/blogger,
educator, and occasional
participant in Occupy Nashville. If there's any research or organizing or
anything else I can do, say the word.
hangout, but
I did want to say how excited I am about everything that was discussed.
I'm not an economist or programmer either, but I do want to lend any of my
talents or abilities in any way I can. I'm a writer/blogger,
educator, and occasional
participant in Occupy Nashville. If there's any research or organizing or
anything else I can do, say the word.
--
Jennifer Hensley
Read me here:
www.bloodypickle.wordpress.com
Here:
She's So Heavy on Smashwords.com: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/18229
And here:
www.alreadygorgeous.com
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