Self-delusion
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Drafterman
Nov 28, 2008, 7:18:04 PM11/28/08
to Debate.Religion
In response to the on-going thread about hope and methods of dealing
with emotional trauma (atheistic vs. theistic methods) I guess I'm
forced to conclude that belief in religious doctrine or ritual is
probably successful in replacing bad emotion with hope.
Along the same lines I'm forced to conclude that a homeless person
believing that he will find a winning lotto ticket in the next trash
can (with the same conviction theists belief in their religion) is
probably successful in replacing the despair of poverty with the hope
of wealth.
I'd like to assume that we all can agree that the latter is a form of
self-delusion.
So the question is self-delusion, in and of itself, unhealthy or
undesirable? If so then could any positive outcome negate that innate
undesirability?
From an atheistic point of view, I view both scenarios as a form of
self-delusion and, thus, undesirable, no matter how good theists say
it makes them feel.
with emotional trauma (atheistic vs. theistic methods) I guess I'm
forced to conclude that belief in religious doctrine or ritual is
probably successful in replacing bad emotion with hope.
Along the same lines I'm forced to conclude that a homeless person
believing that he will find a winning lotto ticket in the next trash
can (with the same conviction theists belief in their religion) is
probably successful in replacing the despair of poverty with the hope
of wealth.
I'd like to assume that we all can agree that the latter is a form of
self-delusion.
So the question is self-delusion, in and of itself, unhealthy or
undesirable? If so then could any positive outcome negate that innate
undesirability?
From an atheistic point of view, I view both scenarios as a form of
self-delusion and, thus, undesirable, no matter how good theists say
it makes them feel.
philosophy
Nov 29, 2008, 5:55:49 PM11/29/08
to Debate.Religion
I can see exactly where you are coming from. Being the overly
generous soul (meaning person) that I am, I will put in a
qualification. If self delusion brings hope, and hope can have a
positive effect on the psyche and/or body, then I am all for it.
What I don't like is a person who may be revved up with this
hope trying to pull others into the delusion, with unsubstantiated
claims, which are, in the end analysis, based on a delusion
relevant to that person.
generous soul (meaning person) that I am, I will put in a
qualification. If self delusion brings hope, and hope can have a
positive effect on the psyche and/or body, then I am all for it.
What I don't like is a person who may be revved up with this
hope trying to pull others into the delusion, with unsubstantiated
claims, which are, in the end analysis, based on a delusion
relevant to that person.
Drafterman
Nov 29, 2008, 6:05:04 PM11/29/08
to Debate.Religion
It boils down to two simple things as far as I'm concerned:
Emotional security is the only rational reason for adhering to
religious belief.
ANY benefit from religious belief can be obtained more honestly (and
efficiently) through secular means.
Emotional security is the only rational reason for adhering to
religious belief.
ANY benefit from religious belief can be obtained more honestly (and
efficiently) through secular means.
philosophy
Nov 30, 2008, 3:04:55 PM11/30/08
to Debate.Religion
I agree.
It's worked well for me so far.
It's worked well for me so far.
Alan Wostenberg
Dec 13, 2008, 7:17:23 PM12/13/08
to Debate.Religion
I hope we can agree self-delusion is always wrong.
On the Judeo-Christian view, avoiding self-deception it’s an
application of the eighth commandment “you shall not lie”. The first
one a liar lies to is often himself. One who believes in God and the
afterlife “for the emotional security” as you put it, is not living
the mature Christian life. He will, by God's grace, enter that dark
night of the soul in which the false god of emotional security is
stripped away.
And let us not think atheism is without it’s psychological comforts.
Many atheists, for example, pride themselves on their mental acuity
and intellectual honesty.
On the Judeo-Christian view, avoiding self-deception it’s an
application of the eighth commandment “you shall not lie”. The first
one a liar lies to is often himself. One who believes in God and the
afterlife “for the emotional security” as you put it, is not living
the mature Christian life. He will, by God's grace, enter that dark
night of the soul in which the false god of emotional security is
stripped away.
And let us not think atheism is without it’s psychological comforts.
Many atheists, for example, pride themselves on their mental acuity
and intellectual honesty.
Drafterman
Dec 14, 2008, 8:06:53 AM12/14/08
to Debate.Religion
On Dec 13, 7:17 pm, Alan Wostenberg <awo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope we can agree self-delusion is always wrong.
>
> On the Judeo-Christian view, avoiding self-deception it’s an
> application of the eighth commandment “you shall not lie”. The first
> one a liar lies to is often himself. One who believes in God and the
> afterlife “for the emotional security” as you put it, is not living
> the mature Christian life. He will, by God's grace, enter that dark
> night of the soul in which the false god of emotional security is
> stripped away.
>
> And let us not think atheism is without it’s psychological comforts.
> Many atheists, for example, pride themselves on their mental acuity
> and intellectual honesty.
Which, of course, is different than choosing atheism specifically
> I hope we can agree self-delusion is always wrong.
>
> On the Judeo-Christian view, avoiding self-deception it’s an
> application of the eighth commandment “you shall not lie”. The first
> one a liar lies to is often himself. One who believes in God and the
> afterlife “for the emotional security” as you put it, is not living
> the mature Christian life. He will, by God's grace, enter that dark
> night of the soul in which the false god of emotional security is
> stripped away.
>
> And let us not think atheism is without it’s psychological comforts.
> Many atheists, for example, pride themselves on their mental acuity
> and intellectual honesty.
because of that pride, which is the point of this discussion.
>
> On Nov 28, 4:18 pm, Drafterman <drafter...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In response to the on-going thread about hope and methods of dealing
> > with emotional trauma (atheistic vs. theistic methods) I guess I'm
> > forced to conclude that belief in religious doctrine or ritual is
> > probably successful in replacing bad emotion with hope.
>
> > Along the same lines I'm forced to conclude that a homeless person
> > believing that he will find a winning lotto ticket in the next trash
> > can (with the same conviction theists belief in their religion) is
> > probably successful in replacing the despair of poverty with the hope
> > of wealth.
>
> > I'd like to assume that we all can agree that the latter is a form of
> > self-delusion.
>
> > So the question is self-delusion, in and of itself, unhealthy or
> > undesirable? If so then could any positive outcome negate that innate
> > undesirability?
>
> > From an atheistic point of view, I view both scenarios as a form of
> > self-delusion and, thus, undesirable, no matter how good theists say
>
> - Show quoted text -
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