Re: Scientology's "Scientometric" Testing Scam

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sharky

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Oct 15, 2004, 2:00:40 PM10/15/04
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"Gerry Armstrong" <ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote in message
news:gbpvm0tqmcheliaa4...@4ax.com...
> New section webbed on carolineletkeman.org:
> http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/docs/testing.html
>
> Give Caroline her money back, Scientology thieves.

Show me anybody who refunds money for services delivered 8 years ago.


>
> In this cult dreams are dreamed by ripoff artists.

The only ripoff artist are you and Caroline.


Peter Golembe

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Oct 16, 2004, 5:35:05 AM10/16/04
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"sharky" <shar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<cfUbd.396509$Fg5.37792@attbi_s53>...

> "Gerry Armstrong" <ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote in message
> news:gbpvm0tqmcheliaa4...@4ax.com...
> > New section webbed on carolineletkeman.org:
> > http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/docs/testing.html
> >
> > Give Caroline her money back, Scientology thieves.
>
> Show me anybody who refunds money for services delivered 8 years ago.

It's an oxymoron to call any organization a "religion", when the said
group stipulates mandatory, fixed "donations" for so-called
"services".

This is especially true for scientology, which as a group only
reenforces the oxymoron; serving only to *DIGNIFY* requests for
refunds with their siccing of sock-puppet Gerhard Sharkykamp on ARS
posters...

Fact is, Goods and Services, ain't religious "services", they're goods
and services. We are talking the Better Business Bureau, not God.
Straight up.

-pg

Peter Widmer

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Oct 16, 2004, 6:49:51 AM10/16/04
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Peter Golembe wrote:
> "sharky" <shar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<cfUbd.396509$Fg5.37792@attbi_s53>...
>
>>"Gerry Armstrong" <ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote in message
>>news:gbpvm0tqmcheliaa4...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>New section webbed on carolineletkeman.org:
>>>http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/docs/testing.html
>>>
>>>Give Caroline her money back, Scientology thieves.
>>
>>Show me anybody who refunds money for services delivered 8 years ago.
>
>
> It's an oxymoron to call any organization a "religion", when the said
> group stipulates mandatory, fixed "donations" for so-called
> "services".
>
> This is especially true for scientology, which as a group only
> reenforces the oxymoron; serving only to *DIGNIFY* requests for
> refunds with their siccing of sock-puppet Gerhard Sharkykamp on ARS
> posters...
>
> Fact is, Goods and Services, ain't religious "services", they're goods
> and services. We are talking the Better Business Bureau, not God.
> Straight up.

Wobei Scieno-Zombie 'Sharky' einmal mehr die Tatsachen gründlichst
missversteht und verdreht :-) Nicht nach 8 Jahren wird das Geld
vollständig zurückgefordert, sondern *seit* 4 Jahren versucht Caroline
die Beträge für vergebliche, ja gefährliche Dienstleistungen und
erzwungene Mitgliedschaft zurück zu erhalten.
Genauso wie Jean-Luc Barbier dasselbe seit 10 Jahren versucht.

"I am creating this archive to support my demand for a refund from
Scientology. I was in the cult from January 1975 until May 1999. In
addition to defrauding me out of those 24 years, Scientology robbed me
of more than US $60,000 for its useless, indeed dangerous 'services.'"

"Caroline Letkeman
[former address]
November 13, 2001

David Miscavige
Religious Technology Center
1710 Ivar Avenue, Suite 1100
Los Angeles, California 90028
E-Mail: in...@scientology.net (Please forward)

Dear Mr. Miscavige:

This is a request for a refund of all money I paid any Scientology
organization or entity for any service from 1975 to the present.
According to my calculations, I paid a total of $61,500 to your
organizations, as follows:

Church of Scientology of British Columbia (1975-2001)
...CDN $10,225/USD $7,000

American Saint Hill Organization (ASHO) (1978-2001)
...USD $2,000

Foothills Mission (ca 1985)
...USD $500

Flag Service Organization (1988-2001)
...USD $50,000

International Association of Scientologists (IAS) (2001)
...USD $2,000 (Lifetime Membership)

Total...USD $61,500

etc...."


Peter


--
Peter Widmer <pwi...@quicknet.ch>
3802 Waldegg <http://www.pewid.ch>

Peter Widmer

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Oct 16, 2004, 6:52:42 AM10/16/04
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Peter Golembe wrote:
> "sharky" <shar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<cfUbd.396509$Fg5.37792@attbi_s53>...
>
>>"Gerry Armstrong" <ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote in message
>>news:gbpvm0tqmcheliaa4...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>New section webbed on carolineletkeman.org:
>>>http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/docs/testing.html
>>>
>>>Give Caroline her money back, Scientology thieves.
>>
>>Show me anybody who refunds money for services delivered 8 years ago.
>
>
> It's an oxymoron to call any organization a "religion", when the said
> group stipulates mandatory, fixed "donations" for so-called
> "services".
>
> This is especially true for scientology, which as a group only
> reenforces the oxymoron; serving only to *DIGNIFY* requests for
> refunds with their siccing of sock-puppet Gerhard Sharkykamp on ARS
> posters...
>
> Fact is, Goods and Services, ain't religious "services", they're goods
> and services. We are talking the Better Business Bureau, not God.
> Straight up.

Wobei Scieno-Zombie 'Sharky' einmal mehr die Tatsachen gründlichst

missversteht und verdreht :-) Nicht nach 8 Jahren wird das Geld

vollständig zurückgefordert, sondern *seit* 3 Jahren versucht Caroline

Gerry Armstrong

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Oct 16, 2004, 6:37:44 PM10/16/04
to
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:00:40 GMT, "sharky" <shar...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>"Gerry Armstrong" <ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote in message
>news:gbpvm0tqmcheliaa4...@4ax.com...
>> New section webbed on carolineletkeman.org:
>> http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/docs/testing.html
>>
>> Give Caroline her money back, Scientology thieves.
>
>Show me anybody who refunds money for services delivered 8 years ago.

It's your cult that promises to do so. This promise makes your cult
sound "ethical," but it's, as you demonstrate, just more criminal
fraud.

Here's what your cult publishes as "scripture:"

[Quote]

"QUACK, 1. someone who gives service but refuses to refund the fee if
the service is unsatisfactory."

"QUACKERY, the action of selling service and refusing to refund the
fee if the customer isn't satisfied."

[End Quote]

L. Ron Hubbard
Modern Management Technology Defined
http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/docs/admin-dictionary-quack.html

You and your cult are stuck with that scriptural definition until the
end of time.

Note that there's no 8-year, or 1-year, or 3-month, qualifying period
in that piece of prophetic scripture.

Customer Caroline isn't satisfied with the service she was sold. The
Scientology cult sold her that "service" for $61,500. The cult is
refusing to refund the fee it charged. Scientology is therefore
quackery, and every Scientologist is a quack. Because Scientology by
its own definition is quackery and every Scientologist a quack,
Caroline has a clear claim for fraud against the cult until the end of
time, as does every customer who wakes up and also cognites that
Scientology is quackery and all Scientologists are quacks.

Nevertheless, to sensibly and responsibly avoid unnecessary litigation
with the Scientology cult over its unenforceable 3-month "rule," which
is in reality merely further evidence of the cult's criminal fraud,
Caroline made her initial demand for refund of the fees the cult
quacked out of her only 2 days after her last service. See Caroline's
demand letter to cult head quack David Miscavige dated November 13,
2001:
http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/ltr-2001-11-13-letkeman.html
Caroline's last service prior to her demand was November 11, 2001.

[Quote]

From: Caroline Letkeman <caro...@telus.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Demand for Refund
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:30:22 -0800
Organization: Lightlink Internet
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Message-ID: <su24vtonhl6ibehkm...@4ax.com>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548
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X-Original-Trace: 14 Nov 2001 01:28:23 -0500, 216.232.121.14

Caroline Letkeman
[former address]
November 13, 2001

David Miscavige
Religious Technology Center
1710 Ivar Avenue, Suite 1100
Los Angeles, California 90028
E-Mail: in...@scientology.net (Please forward)

Dear Mr. Miscavige:

This is a request for a refund of all money I paid any Scientology
organization or entity for any service from 1975 to the present.
According to my calculations, I paid a total of $61,500 to your
organizations

<snip>

I am completely dissatisfied with all services I have ever taken in
Scientology, and wish to let this letter serve as my demand for a full
and complete refund. My last service was at the Vancouver Organization
(CSBC) on Sunday, November 11, 2001.

[End Quote]

Again following and submitting to Scientology's criminal 3-month
"scripture," Caroline made a subsequent demand to DM for refund of the
fees his cult had quacked from her on July 31, 2003. Her last
Scientology service prior to this demand was July 30, 2003, just one
day before. Caroline even pointed out to Miscavige her responsible
compliance with the 3-month "rule."

[Quote]

July 31, 2003

David Miscavige
Religious Technology Center
1710 Ivar Avenue, Suite 1100
Los Angeles, California 90028

By Deutsche Post, and by E-Mail via Scientology Organizations

Dear David:

This is a demand for refund of all the money that you and your
Scientology organization scammed from me during my years as a
Scientologist. Throughout those years, I sincerely tried to get
Scientology to work, with no success. I am convinced that Scientology
does not work. It is a complete and criminal fraud. My IQ did not go
up even one point, let alone the promised one point per hour for the
thousand hours of processing to which I was subjected. Not only did
Scientology not work, however, but it was, and continues to be,
psychologically damaging, to me and to every person who has ever known
me in the cult.

<snip>

One of the "cute," but very evil, parts of your scam, which, if
understood, actually confirms you as a criminal quack, is your "trick"
of requiring that customers requesting refunds do so within three
months of their last service. This cheap trick is notably absent from
your "scriptural" definition of "quack," because, of course, you are a
criminal quack, and Scientology is criminal quackery.

Nevertheless, to erase any excuse you might manufacture, upon
confirming by my reasonable wait that you were a criminal quack, I
took yet another "service," some "processing," from your cult,
yesterday, July 30, 2003. And I am advising you hereby that I am
utterly dissatisfied with that "service."

[End Quote]

http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/ltr-2003-07-31-letkeman.html

To yet further demonstrate her continuing good faith efforts to comply
with the Scientology cult's criminal 3-month "rule," Caroline has
continued on a regular basis to be subjected to more Scientology
"services" with which she has been on every occasion completely not
satisfied. Her last subjection to a Scientology "service" that was
unsatisfactory was yesterday, October 15, 2004.

>
>
>>
>> In this cult dreams are dreamed by ripoff artists.
>
>The only ripoff artist are you and Caroline.

We expect this kind of pathological irresponsibility and black PR
attack from Scientologists like Sharky, a person recognized
internationally as an OSA operative named Gerhard Waterkamp.
Organizationally he is positioned under cult boss Miscavige.
Scientologists are not permitted to act responsibly and refund money
they stole from Caroline. Not one Scientologist has acted responsibly
or decently toward Caroline. That is an amazing, but utterly true
statement. After Scientologists victimize people, even, as with
Caroline, defrauding them out of gargantuan sums of money, the same
Scientologist victimizers are only permitted by Miscavige to further
black PR, fair game and destroy the victims they've victimized.

Hey you Scientology quack, give Caroline her money back!

© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org

sharky

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Oct 18, 2004, 11:11:18 AM10/18/04
to

"Gerry Armstrong" <ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote in message
news:g183n0t63sb22naom...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:00:40 GMT, "sharky" <shar...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Gerry Armstrong" <ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote in message
>>news:gbpvm0tqmcheliaa4...@4ax.com...
>>> New section webbed on carolineletkeman.org:
>>> http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/docs/testing.html
>>>
>>> Give Caroline her money back, Scientology thieves.
>>
>>Show me anybody who refunds money for services delivered 8 years ago.
>
> It's your cult that promises to do so. This promise makes your cult
> sound "ethical," but it's, as you demonstrate, just more criminal
> fraud.

It is criminal fraud to come 8 years later and demand re-funds for services
delivered. Giving you wanna be rip off artists any money would be the
unethical thing to do.

And it is true criminals like you are stupid.

Your posts demonstrate it every time.


Helmut Hullen

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Oct 18, 2004, 11:30:00 AM10/18/04
to
Hallo, Gerhard,

Du (sharky818) meintest am 18.10.04:

> It is criminal fraud to come 8 years later and demand re-funds for
> services delivered.

Gegen welches Gesetz wird dabei verstossen? Welches Strafmass ist
vorgesehen?

Viele Grüsse
Helmut

* "Scientology...is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion."
* - L. Ron Hubbard's "Creation of Human Ability" p251

Peter Widmer

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Oct 18, 2004, 1:36:23 PM10/18/04
to
Helmut Hullen wrote:
> Hallo, Gerhard,
>
> Du (sharky818) meintest am 18.10.04:
>
>
>>It is criminal fraud to come 8 years later and demand re-funds for
>>services delivered.
>
>
> Gegen welches Gesetz wird dabei verstossen? Welches Strafmass ist
> vorgesehen?
>

Tja, und dabei dürfte der Sachverhalt umgekehrt sein :-) Die Scientology
'Kirche' hat unter Vorspiegelung falscher Tatsachen und betrügerischen
Versprechen enorme Geldbeträge ertrogen. Zudem verstösst sie gegen die
eigenen Richtlinien indem sie solche Gelder ihrer Opfer zurückhält.

Wäre doch eine interessante Sache für einen der bekannten, auf
Sammelklagen spezialisierten US Anwälte wie Edward Fagan ...

Gerry Armstrong

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Oct 26, 2004, 6:57:28 PM10/26/04
to
Webbed at:
http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/ltr-2004-10-26.html

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:11:18 GMT, "sharky" <shar...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>"Gerry Armstrong" <ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote in message
>news:g183n0t63sb22naom...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:00:40 GMT, "sharky" <shar...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gerry Armstrong" <ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote in message
>>>news:gbpvm0tqmcheliaa4...@4ax.com...
>>>> New section webbed on carolineletkeman.org:
>>>> http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/docs/testing.html
>>>>
>>>> Give Caroline her money back, Scientology thieves.
>>>
>>>Show me anybody who refunds money for services delivered 8 years ago.
>>
>> It's your cult that promises to do so. This promise makes your cult
>> sound "ethical," but it's, as you demonstrate, just more criminal
>> fraud.
>
>It is criminal fraud to come 8 years later and demand re-funds for services
>delivered.

It is actually libelous for you to claim or imply that this is what
Caroline and/or I have been or are doing. You have no basis in law,
logic or ethics, other than Scientology "ethics," which is utterly
unethical, to make this libelous allegation.

Your cult ripped Caroline off. Now it must pay back the money.
Scientology must pay back the money even according to your own
"doctrine of exchange."

A claim of fraud runs from the time the fraud was discovered. If you
woke up today, Gerhard, and discovered that for 8 years, or 30 years,
you'd been ripped off, day after day after day, "service" after
"service" after "service," payment after payment after payment,
especially by a cult that promises that if you're merely not
"satisfied" it will refund your payments, you would have a perfectly
legitimate legal claim against that cult. (I am not claiming to be a
lawyer, and you must make your own legal decisions.)

The Scientology cult, as directed David Miscavige, has ripped off
thousands upon thousands of customers. All of them, in order to pay
what was ripped off, were brainwashed. That is, they were inculcated
with the idea that if they did exactly what they were told, including
paying what would be ripped off, everything would be okay. That idea
is the core "belief" for brainwashed Scientology customers, and
largely for staff.

What would be "okay" for any customer, as part of the inculcation or
brainwash, would certainly include actual receipt of what Scientology
was promising in exchange for the payments. What Scientology promises
would include, obviously, and by way of example, the increase in IQ
per time unit of doing what the customer was told to do by the people
who took his payments in exchange for such promise or promises.

Obviously not all of those customers -- often people like Caroline who
paid over 60 thousand dollars, and who gave the cult over twenty years
of doing exactly what she was told to do -- will become unbrainwashed,
or at least will not become unbrainwashed at the same time. You might
recall this datum, or dictum, or dogma, which, by the way, Hubbard did
not coin (oh, what am I thinking, ka-ching!) "It takes as long as it
takes."

There are some obvious, and obviously unobvious steps out of the
Scientology brainwash, that is, to the point of no longer doing any of
what Scientology says to do to obtain or attain anything Scientology
promises. The knowledge or discovery that (again using the IQ example)
one's IQ did not go up by the product of all the time units the
ex-customer had spent in Scientology doing exactly what he was told to
do and the reasonable expectation of measurable increase per time
unit, as Hubbard measured and sold IQ gain in "scripture," might not
occur for many years. You haven't had that cognition, right? And
you've been doing exactly what you're told to do in Scientology for
how long?

Obviously, the Miscavige cult does what it can to keep customers like
yourself, and ex-customers like Caroline, from ever gaining that
knowledge; here, continuing with the same example, that their IQs have
not increased all those expected points by doing exactly what they'd
been told to do. The Miscavigists still publish the same set of IQ-
raising claims, still include Hubbard's huge gains per hour claims as
"scripture," pump out ever glossier IQ boosting promo, e.g.,
http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/docs/validity-346-insert1.html
http://www.carolineletkeman.org/refund/docs/connect-fsm-nwsltr-2001.html
and attack the good folk who criticize the criminality and who cognite
on the fraud and request their money back as never before. What Mr.
Waterkamp is doing here -- one of the duties of his hat -- is to help
Miscavige stop people from finding out that they have been defrauded.

This massive campaign to prevent people from discovering the fraud,
which campaign includes continuing the marketing of the fraud and
declaring and black PRing customers who do wake up and discover the
fraud, effectively tolls the statute of limitations on this fraud.
With that gargantuan size and effort of this Scientology campaign to
prevent people from waking up, one can expect that there would be a
colossal and fairly sudden reaction with great numbers of customers
and staff waking up, and discovering that they had been defrauded.
Will you put off your waking up, Gerhard, until everyone else has
woken up?

You will note that in your campaign to prevent people from waking up
and discovering the fraud, you and Miscavige are too late with
Caroline. She found out, and when she found out she requested her
money back pursuant to your cult's policy.

There are multiple points of cognition or discovery regarding
Scientology, a significant one of which is that the people doing the
ordering of what the ex-customer did, exactly as ordered through all
those hours, days or years, are not honest, ethical, civil rights-
promoting, humanitarian people, and Scientology is not only not the
most ethical organization on the planet (part of the KSW inculcation
and key to the brainwash) but is a pathologically unethical
organization. You're still brainwashed, Gerhard, so you still haven't
woken up to just how unethical Scientology is; but that is a cognition
that any customer or staffer like yourself can have at any time. For
now, it is your hat to black PR people like Caroline and me in order
to forward Scientology's campaign to prevent people from finding out
just how unethical the cult is. Naturally, to any thinking person,
your actions in attacking good people and trying to prevent people
from finding out just how unethical Scientology is, demonstrate
perfectly just how unethical the cult is.

> Giving you wanna be rip off artists any money would be the
>unethical thing to do.

This is Miscavige logic. Attack the defrauded. Attack the defenseless.
Attack the victims. Attack the SPs, because they are the defrauded,
the defenseless, the victims. Don't mention the fraud.

>
>And it is true criminals like you are stupid.

I am not so stupid that I wouldn't know if my wife had an IQ of five
hundred let alone five thousand.

>
>Your posts demonstrate it every time.

Here's my web site, where many of my posts and other writings are
webbed. People can see for themselves.
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org

Here's another web site, where people can see for themselves the
"Suppressive Person" doctrine, which explains with the Scientology
cult's own documents why Miscavige is such a liar, why you attack good
people, why Scientology blatantly violates its own "policy" of giving
refunds requested, and why the cult is just as unethical as it is
http://www.suppressiveperson.org/

And here's Caroline's site, where people can see for themselves her
claim for a refund and her efforts to obtain the refund that
Scientology promises but does not deliver.
http://www.carolineletkeman.org/

© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org

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