A.r.s Week in Review - 12/27/98
Rod Keller
Week in Review Volume 3, Issue 37
12/27/98
by Rod Keller [rke...@voicenet.com]
copyright 1998
Alt.religion.scientology Week in Review summarizes the most significant
postings from the Usenet group Alt.religion.scientology for the preceding
week for the benefit of those who can't follow the group as closely as
they'd like. Out of thousands of postings, I attempt to include news of
significant events, new affidavits, court rulings, new contributors,
whatever. I hope you find it useful. Like many readers of a.r.s, I have a
kill file. So please take into consideration that I may not have seen some
of the most significant postings.
The articles in A.r.s Week in Review are brief summaries of articles
posted to the newsgroup. They include message IDs for the original
articles, and many have a URL to get more information. You may be able to
find the original article, depending on how long your site stores articles
in the newsgroup before expiring them.
Free A.r.s Week in Review subscriptions are available, just email me at
rke...@voicenet.com
It is archived at:
http://wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de/~krasel/CoS/ars-summary.html
http://www.thur.de/religio/publik/arsfaq.html
http://www.xenu.net/archive/WIR/
http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~dif/ic/reviews.htm
#####
> Clearwater Buses
A St. Petersburg Times editorial this week questioned the legality of the
removal of ads protesting against Scientology from Clearwater buses during
the recent protest and memorial for Lisa McPherson.
"A group called Former Scientologists Speaking Out paid to place their ads
on 11 county buses with routes that took them past the Scientologists'
Fort Harrison Hotel in downtown Clearwater. The messages, including 'Why
does Scientology lie to its members?' and 'Think for Yourself. Quit
Scientology,' along with the group's Web address www.xenu.net, so offended
church leaders that a couple tracked down Roger Sweeney, executive
director of the Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority, at his home earlier
this month and pressured him to remove the buses from service. He did so
the next day.
"By ceding to the Scientologists' demands, Sweeney probably thought he was
making a problem go away, but he was buying himself a bigger one. Despite
being offensive, those anti-Scientologist ads were constitutionally
protected, and removing them probably violated the First Amendment.
"Sweeney says PSTA advertising policy prohibits the posting of campaign
signs for or against candidates, political parties or referenda, but
accepts other issue-oriented signs. That means the ad space has to be made
available to all messages, even those that question the legitimacy of a
religious order. Sweeney pulled the ads after he conferred with PSTA
lawyer Alan Zimmet about a Scientology contention that the signs violated
a state law. The law, which has been on the books since 1945, prohibits
anonymous dissemination of any material that 'tends to expose any
individual or any religious group to hatred, contempt, ridicule or
obloquy.' But that law has never been successfully used to prosecute
anyone. It is patently unconstitutional -- we have a fundamental First
Amendment right to speak anonymously -- and shouldn't have been the basis
of a decision to remove the ads from public view.
"Sweeney says he supports free speech on bus signs and ordered the buses
back in service a day later, but by then the anti-Scientology ads had been
removed. Before the next bad judgment call arises, the PSTA should get a
legal opinion from a constitutional law expert. It's likely the PSTA will
be told that if the county wants to use its buses as moving billboards, it
will have to make them available to all who ante up, regardless of what
the Scientologists think."
Message-ID: <75o49v$q...@netaxs.com>
#####
> Providence Dentist
A Scientologist and dentist in Providence, Rhode Island has been sued by
his former receptionist for forcing her to study Scientology. From the
Associated Press:
"Dentist Roger Carlsten was promoting religion in the workplace when he
asked his receptionist to take a statistics course written by the founder
of Scientology, according to a complaint filed in Superior Court. Susan
Elizabeth Morgan, a Catholic, said she is suing her former boss because
she was fired after she refused to take the course written by L. Ron
Hubbard, the late science fiction writer and founder of the controversial
Scientology religion. Morgan asserts that material in 'Hubbard Management
Technology,' is based in Scientology, not statistics. Carlsten, 52, said
although he practices Scientology, he did not try to impose his beliefs on
his employees, and religion had nothing to do with firing 32-year-old
Morgan of Johnston. 'There is no religious issue here,' said Carlsten's
lawyer, Sandra Lanni. 'There's a perception that this is a lawsuit against
Scientology and it's not. These courses are strictly business courses.'
The complaint, brought under the Rhode Island Fair Employment Practices
Act, alleges that Carlsten failed to accommodate Morgan's beliefs as a
Catholic and the Carlsten fired her based on religion."
From the Providence Journal:
"In early 1991, East Side dentist Roger N. Carlsten told his young
receptionist, Susan Elizabeth Morgan, that he wanted to promote her to
office manager and boost her salary. But first, according to Morgan's
complaint, Carlsten insisted she take a special statistics course in
'Hubbard Management Technology' written by the late science-fiction writer
L. Ron Hubbard. Because she knew Hubbard had founded a controversial
religion known as Scientology, and because she also knew that Carlsten was
a Scientologist, Morgan said in her court complaint and in sworn testimony
that she worried that the course amounted to religion in disguise. She
refused to take the course. Not long thereafter, Carlsten fired her.
"Now, Morgan's unusual employment-discrimination suit against Carlsten has
begun playing out in Superior Court, with an evidentiary hearing last
month on whether to dismiss or permit Morgan's claim for punitive damages
to proceed to trial. A decision on that is pending.
"Morgan's six-page complaint alleges that Carlsten: Integrated
Scientology into work policy, insisting on its use by Morgan and
coworkers. Continually pressured Morgan for months to take the Hubbard
Management Technology course, eventually stating she needed to take it 'to
remain qualified' for her job. Created a 'religiously intimidating
workplace.' Failed to accommodate Morgan's religious beliefs by refusing
her offer to take management courses 'unrelated to Scientology.'
"'Did individuals from Precision Management come to your office?' asked
Morgan's lawyer, Rene Bushey, of Boston. 'I asked them if they were
members of Scientology,' Morgan testified. 'They said they were, but they
denied' that the courses Carlsten wanted them to take 'had any connection
with Scientology. I found it upsetting. It did not help to ease my mind.'
Bushey asked Morgan to read an excerpt from the course materials, which
she said Carlsten had provided to her for review at the time. From the
glossary, Morgan read an explanation of 'dynamics': 'The eighth dynamic
is the urge toward existence as infinity. This is also identified as the
Supreme Being. This is called the eighth dynamic, because the symbol of
infinity stood upright makes the numeral '8.' This can be called the
infinity or God dynamic.' '
"Several months later, Carlsten fired her. Morgan told the court: 'He
asked to see me at the end of the day. He said that we were incompatible,
that he was going to have to terminate me, and he said, quote, 'he needed
someone who could be everything that he wanted them to be, and that
included taking Precision Management courses.''
"Robert Boston, spokesman for Americans United for Separation of Church
and State, of Washington, D.C., said in a telephone interview that 'the
Scientologists often try and have it both ways. 'They spent a lot of time
trying to convince the courts they are a legitimate religion,' Boston
said. 'And they won that battle. They are now considered a bona fide,
tax-exempt religious organization. But sometimes now they try and argue
that they have this secular arm, when it suits their purposes.'"
Message-ID: <75lmbi$5ap$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Message-ID: <75m8r5$3...@edrn.newsguy.com>
#####
> Finland
Jukka Santala reported that the Finnish Ministry of Education has refused
to grant Scientology religious status.
"The news broke out in the morning, with a lead-in article in Finland's
largest national newspaper, 'Helsigin Sanomat'. The lead-in/summary
article specifically mentions that the main reason for rejection of the
application was 'Because collecting money seems more important than
practicing religion' to Scientology. It's also notes this is the first
time an organization has been denied religious classification in Finland.
This won't affect their operation in that religious classification in
Finland is mostly a formality, that doesn't bring any additional
tax-breaks for example. However, it does grant some sort of credibility,
right to be taught as a religion in schools and less strict
tax-monitoring. According to Finnish law, you may apparently only belong
to one 'religion' at time. Thus religions 'compatible with other
religions' haven't traditionally sought religious status.
"Scientology applied for the classification three years ago, with 20
signatories, which is the absolute minimum. However, when the Ministry of
Education asked for clarification, Scientology church in Finland didn't
give one because some of the signed members 'had moved' and the
organization had 'better things to do'. Scientology's Finnish spokesman,
Kari Koivisto said that the claims about courses costing from hundreds of
dollars to over 20,000 dollars were false and the real costs were some
tens of dollars, or a couple of hundred at most. The news-article goes on
to mention the Finnish 1994 case where a woman was 'persuaded' to take a
loan valued at $30,000."
Message-ID: <75tb0a$6pv$1...@verkko.uwasa.fi>
#####
> Germany
Hamburger Abendblatt reported this week that Scientology has been mailing
letters to opponents this week.
"Companies and associations who do not want Scientology influence have
begun receiving mail from the controversial organization. The letters
state that they should withdraw 'security statements,' which, from the
Scientologists' view, are discriminatory, and by which means employees,
customers and business partners must state that they are neither
Scientologists, nor do they use the technology of sect founder L. Ron
Hubbard.
"In one of the first letters, the Scientology 'German Office for Human
Rights' in Munich had sent questionnaires to companies all around the
country (twelve of them in Hamburg), in which questions were asked such as
whether, when, and at whose urging the 'security statements' had been
introduced. In another letter, which, according to a statement by Hamburg
Scientology speaker Gisela Hackenjos, was only sent to the German Brokers
Group (RDM), Scientology stated that it would soon publish which
companies, groups and associations continued to use a 'security
statement.'
"The RDM stated, in response, that it did not intend 'to modify the
regulations of the Hamburg state associations,' in spite of this threat.
Ursula Caberta, Director of the Work Group on Scientology for the State,
said that the addressees should 'not be afraid' and to call her in case of
emergency."
Hamburger Abendblatt also reported that Scientology is behind in social
security payments.
"According to information from the 'Abendblatt' the amount is around three
million marks. One year ago, the sect was presented with a demand for
payment for retirement, unemployment and health insurance contributions.
This money is now due. The organization, according to a statement by its
speaker, Gisela Hackenjos, has filed an objection and agreed to a payment
plan. It will also take action against the anticipated second request for
money.
"The additional payments are based on a Federal Administrative Court
decision confirmed in 1995 by the Hamburg Superior Administrative Court,
whereby the Scientology Center on Steindamm does business as a book seller
and as a provider of courses and seminars. The Federal Labor Court found
in 1995 that Scientology is not a religious congregation, and that its
staff workers are therefore employees for whom social security payments
are due."
Message-ID: <75p7lq$4e7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Message-ID: <75mj0n$tvh$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
#####
> Austria
OTS reported on a Scientology anti-drug event in Austria.
"On December 10 at 4 p.m., the 'Say No to Drugs' campaign held a big
concert against drugs in front of the Haas building on Stephansplatz. The
concert was supposed to kick off a grandly designed information campaign.
Mark Janicello, the renowned American opera tenor and Elvis imitator, sang
at this special event. The newly published brochure, 'Ecstasy: traitor
exposed,' which was sponsored by the Scientology Church Austria, was also
distributed at the concert.
"The 'Say No to Drugs' campaign has been running successfully for many
years in countries such as Switzerland, Germany and America, where stars
such as John Travolta and Isaac Hayes, Chick Corea, the Beach Boys and
many others have supported it. The 'honor roll' has been signed by
personalities such as Michael Palin, Andrew Lloyd Webber, Cliff Richard,
Princess Christina from Sweden and many others."
"All told, over 4,000 leaflets as well as 1,900 copies of the booklet,
'Ecstasy - Traitor Exposed' were distributed. The President of the
Scientology Church Vienna, Andrea Westhof, said, 'The great success of
today's concert has convinced us to support and promote the campaign and
the association 'Say No to Drugs' even more.'"
Message-ID: <75mj8s$uao$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
#####
> The Guardian
An editorial in the UK newspaper The Guardian urged support for
Scientology and other cults in Germany.
"Freedom of belief is second only to freedom of speech in the Declaration,
but in the secular West, people of minority faiths - most prominently,
muslims - passionately argue that it is in this area, that Western
liberalism reveals its own blind intolerance. How many human rights
experts have been prepared to champion the Scientologists' struggle in
Germany, where they are discriminated against in jobs, hiring public
buildings, conducting their businesses and banned from political parties.
"What is a cult to one man is a peaceful search for utopia to the next.
In the hysterical panic which swept through Francophone Europe in the wake
of the Solar Temple in 1994, freedom of belief has been an easy sacrifice
in several liberal democracies. There is no shortage of anti-cult groups
happy to supply allegations. When politicians seize the opportunity of
some cheap credit, a cycle of misinformation and harassment prompts
persecution complexes which can turn a movement into a paranoid cult."
The editorial may have been related to a lawsuit won against The Guardian
by an anti-cult activist in November, 1998. From The Guardian:
"One of the country's highest profile campaigners against cults was
defamed by a Guardian article which portrayed him as a 'self promoting,
self-aggrandising and obsessive individual', a jury at the High Court in
London decided yesterday. Graham Baldwin, aged 44, director of the
Catalyst charity which helps the victims of cults, was awarded 15,000
pounds in damages for an article published in January last year which
looked at the case of three children who were returned to the UK from
Portugal where they had been staying with an alleged cult.
"The jury decided by a 10-2 majority that Mr. Baldwin had been libeled by
the Guardian. They had been told that they would enter 'a shadowy and,
some would say, sinister world' of cults. They heard that the story
centred on a community in Portugal, the International Saturday Group, also
known as the ISG or the Family, which Mr. Baldwin alleged was a cult. Mr.
Baldwin's counsel, Jonathan Crystal, told the jury that the Guardian had
done a hatchet job - a serious attack on 'somebody who's a good man'."
Message-ID: <36869fce...@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3687515b...@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <aVzmiKAo...@pallas3.demon.co.uk>
#####
> Protest / Revenge Summary
Jeff Jacobsen and Bruce Pettycrew reported a protest at the Mesa org this
week, which was followed by a revenge leaflet from Scientology. From Jeff
Jacobsen:
"My neighborhood got papered with one of those generic 'The Face of
Religious Bigotry' flyers today, after a few of us picketed the church
from 11 am to noon today. Since my neighbors know me, they kindly brought
me copies of the flyers."
From Bruce Pettycrew:
"Today we had 5 picketers! Deana Holmes joined me and Kathy, Jeff
Jacobsen and Steve W. in a picket from 11:00 to 12:00 today. There were 2
handlers (welcome Jim and Kathy Bennet to the Mesa bOrg staff) and a new
punk-type goon to take down our license plate numbers. The license plate
taker asked me what crimes against the Co$."
Message-ID: <763soa$2ng$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com>
Message-ID: <763um5$9ph$2...@nnrp02.primenet.com>
#####
> 20/20
A transcript of the 20/20 news program was posted this week. Some
highlights:
"A young nurse named Hana Whitfield was one of Hubbard's original Sea Org
members. But instead of a magnanimous leader, Whitfield says she found in
Hubbard a man increasingly prone to violent fits of temper. 'He would
whine and cry out and, and express outrage at this or that or the other.
Um, that would go on for days.'
"According to Whitfield and others, Hubbard ordered rule-breakers confined
to the ship's chain locker for days at a time, including once a 4-year-old
boy. On another occasion, witnesses say, Hubbard ordered wayward crew
members to be shoved overboard while the Apollo was docked in port. A
Scientology magazine at the time depicted the ceremony.
"HANA WHITFIELD: 'And those who were wailing or prostrate with fear were
just grabbed and shoved over the ship into the harbor.'
"MIKE RINDER: 'There was a, like a, a little ceremony that grew up that
was like a, um,--I dunno, a joke, like a fun thing--'OK, I commit my sins
to the deep and I arise a better man!' and he would jump off the side.'
"TOM JARRIEL: After wandering the seas for more than five years, Hubbard
finally came ashore here, in the sleepy retirement town of Clearwater,
Florida. His goal was to establish an international mecca for Scientology.
But according to many insiders, Hubbard was growing more and more
vindictive toward those who stood in his way. He created what he called
'The Rehabilitation Project Force.'
"HANA WHITFIELD: 'The people who are assigned to this camp are the worst
of the worst. They're the--they're criminals in Scientology. I had two
big men on either side of me who pretty much manhandled me into this room
with no windows. And there was just a mattress on the floor. And I was
locked in this room in the dark for however long it was. My crime was, in
a Scientology sense, a very serious one. I was accused of having negative
thoughts about Mr. Hubbard.'
"Stacy Young says she was assigned to the RPF for disobeying an order to
interrogate a fellow staff member. For part of the time, Young says she
was in a room on the seventh floor of the Los Angeles church. Her husband
admits he stood by and did nothing to try to get her out.
"STACY YOUNG: 'I didn't see Vaughn for several months. I didn't hear from
him. I didn't have any correspondence with him whatsoever. He did nothing
to try and rescue me. (starts crying) I felt that my husband should have
rescued me.'
"VAUGHN YOUNG: 'I didn't take her out. I look back at that--that's--I
should have just picked her up. I should have just picked her up. And I
should have just said, 'If anybody touches me, you're dead.' You go
through interrogations hour after hour, day after day, week after week,
month after month. Breaking you down, breaking you down, breaking you
down. Hubbard's policy was, 'As long as you're with us, we'll leave you
alone. But if you speak out against us, we're gonna dog you and ruin you
and destroy you.' And that's exactly what they keep trying to do.'
"FRANK OLIVER: 'They can send private investigators out to your home or to
your place of work, talk to your neighbors. They will illicitly try and
obtain copies of your phone bills or credit rating. They will try and
create problems for you at your place of employment. They will try and sue
you. They'll do everything they can try and do to stop you or to silence
you.'
"TOM JARRIEL: 'How do you know?'
"FRANK OLIVER: 'I know because that's what I used to do. I remember
having to make the phone calls to all the phone numbers on someone's phone
bill to find out where they had called. These were enemies of the church.
You shut them down. You find out what you can about them. You find their
weak spot and you expose it. You make it so that they cannot survive or
exist. You literally destroy them. I think that when we were chasing
around Hana Whitfield that she was very intimidated by this, very
disturbed by it. We followed this woman out of her house. We chased her
around. We followed her to the airport.'
"KIRSTIE ALLEY: 'If you divorce a woman, and you, she gives me her version
of why she left you, how valid do you think it is? If you've got a group
standing over here of millions of Scientologists telling you daily the
successes that they have, the wins that they have, the way they're helping
people, and you can examine the statistics for yourself, and you have a
handful of dissatisfied customers over here, then that's life. You're
never going to have a group of anyone without some dissatisfied customers.
So say, fine, you don't want to be a Scientologist, go.'"
Message-ID: <36814890...@news.primenet.com>
#####
> Joe Lynn
Joe Lynn reported his experiences in a Los Angeles jail last week.
Scientology agents were involved in having him jailed for outstanding
warrants. Joe has been a protester against Scientology in Los Angeles,
and was visited by a Scientology agent while serving time.
"I was called out for an 'attorney visit' went to the office and was told
'Mr. Richardson is around the corner.' This was of course kind of a shock
to me since I was well aware who he was having seen him dancing a little
jig when I got busted and at each of the court appearances I made
thereafter. I also know him from my picket with Kristi where he tried to
follow us.. and did for a while block my truck in at Celebrity Centre. I
told the deputy 'That's not my attorney. That's a PI from the Church of
Scientology,' which didn't seem to surprise him either. He just asked if I
wanted to talk to him. Having a sense of humor I said yes of course.
Richardson claimed that he didn't claim to be representing my attorney.
"He was there (and there is about an hour's drive out of the way from
downtown LA) to show me a printout of an IRC log from wgert obviously
where Dennis supposedly takes credit for getting me busted. Standard
slimo-clam tactic and no surprise. I just shook my head sadly and said
that'd be silly of Dennis since both Richardson and I knew it was his
credit. The whole rest of the story is just the concerned Edwin
commiserating with my unemployment and suggesting I might work for them
when I got out. In retrospect I kind of doubt the offer was serious.
"And many thanks to Graham Berry who went far beyond anything he needed to
do and got results that I'm perfectly happy with. Or at least as happy as
anybody whose dealt with the justice system would be."
Message-ID: <36814890...@news.primenet.com>
#####
> Tradenet/ATG
Mark Dallara posted the minutes of a 1997 phone call between
representatives of Scientology-affiliated American Technologies Group and
the defunct Scientology company Tradenet. The participants in the
discussion of the controversial IE crystals and laundry ball products were
John Collins, Bill Cooper, Erwin Annau and Harold Rapp. Some excerpts:
"It is ATG's position that both our firms are in danger unless ATG
completes this cycle immediately because the calls, letters, and
complaints we are receiving will continue unless we complete the science
to support your claims. With the laundry solution, which is not our
product, we are behind the '8 ball'. We would normally have come-up with
the idea, gotten sample globes, filled them with Ie, run them through the
washing machines, document tests and results, write a paper on the
invention, independently confirm our invention through peer review, and
then publish our results. The product would have become sellable and
defensible, unassailable by authorities or suppressives in the
environment. We are going ahead and purchasing the scientific equipment
because we believe both our firms are in danger unless we move quickly and
effectively to validate your product.
"While it has been stated that TradeNet does not want all of its products
to contain ATG's Ie crystal, it must be fully understood that it is ATG's
job to get the Ie crystal into as many products as possible. Therefore, it
is our intention to create cosmetic and toiletry products which contain Ie
crystals. We will also prove in our laboratory that these products are
superior to other products in the marketplace which do not contain Ie
crystals, and ATG will ensure the public realizes that products containing
Ie crystals are more desirable and effective.
"ATG is proceeding quickly with developing a super globe for your Laundry
System (globe plus a consumable comprised of liquid Ie for softening) and
the Dishwasher System (non-consumable plus consumable enzyme-based
product). It must be understood that whatever products are finally offered
to TradeNet by ATG will undoubtedly work as advertised consistently and
predictably they will be based solely on science and proven efficacy so no
attacks can be directed at either TradeNet or ATG.
"While watching a business news channel last week, I found an interesting
discussion on Amway's financials. Amway's largest business today by far is
educational materials-books, videos, and tapes. Dr. Lo has written 3 books
on the subjects of physics, quantum mechanics, and mathematics in cartoon
form similar to KTL (Key to Life Course). Other books are being written on
electricity, Ie crystals, and science. These books are vital to
understanding these subjects. Most parents have a concern for the
education of their children. These books can correct the wrong information
in our colleges and universities while applying the study tech and being
entertaining, easily understood. These books can be made available
exclusively to TradeNet to broaden your scope I am delighted that
TradeNet's stats are up, and I am pleased and proud to be working with
TradeNet."
Message-ID: <3683fc2d...@news.newsguy.com>
-end-
Otmar Lendl
>
>#####
>
>> Austria
>
>OTS reported on a Scientology anti-drug event in Austria.
>
>"On December 10 at 4 p.m., the 'Say No to Drugs' campaign held a big
>concert against drugs in front of the Haas building on Stephansplatz.
Aw shucks.
I live in Vienna, but I never heard of that event. What a pity,
I missed that superb leafletting occasion.
As I've never seen a clam body-routing here in Vienna, I didn't feel
the urge to actively do something about that cult here, but if they
start to make a public fuss, I will activate the local ARSCC chapter.
I just wonder if the clams dare to announce the next event here
beforehand.
/ol
--
/ Otmar Lendl (le...@cosy.sbg.ac.at) # http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~lendl/ \
\ Killfiles generate SEP fields. Beware: the CE-Norm does not cover them. /
Bernie
wrote:
>> Joe Lynn
>
>Joe Lynn reported his experiences in a Los Angeles jail last week.
>Scientology agents were involved in having him jailed for outstanding
>warrants. Joe has been a protester against Scientology in Los Angeles,
>and was visited by a Scientology agent while serving time.
What evidences do we have to affirm that "Scientology agents were
involved in having him jailed"? I have seen no evidence of that so
far, but it doesn't prevent Rod Keller to go on with this
unsubstantiated accusation, like he did already in other instances.
The rumor that it was Dennis Erlich who got Lynn jailed because he
thought he was a Scientology spy has not been very much contradicted
so far, and Dennis has remained conspicuously silent about it.
Also: note how Rod Keller failed to report the incident in which a
French Scientologists who posted to this newsgroup has been outed and
harrassed by critics at his employment place through anonymous mail.
As is Rod Keller's habit for everything that sheds a bad light on
critics, he carefully avoided reporting the incident. Here it is:
Message-ID: <75elp7$b...@news1.newsguy.com>
"Two letters of "denunciation" were received by plant management
this summer without provoking any reaction. But an anonymous
letter sent to the police and the press made the matter public.
The engineer and his wife, both scientologists, were identified
by name.
The sender, a mysterious "antiscientology collective", threatened
the management of EDF with a "media scandal" if a decision to
sack the scientologist wasn't quickly taken. "
Bernie
http://welcome.to/ars
ef
(Bernie) wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:31:14 GMT Rod Keller <rke...@voicenet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> Joe Lynn
> >
> >Joe Lynn reported his experiences in a Los Angeles jail last week.
> >Scientology agents were involved in having him jailed for outstanding
> >warrants. Joe has been a protester against Scientology in Los Angeles,
> >and was visited by a Scientology agent while serving time.
>
> What evidences do we have to affirm that "Scientology agents were
> involved in having him jailed"? I have seen no evidence of that so
> far, but it doesn't prevent Rod Keller to go on with this
> unsubstantiated accusation, like he did already in other instances.
since now, in another thread, joe lynn explained that it was indeed a
scientology agent that had him arrested, and since in that very thread you
accept his explanation, are you willing to apologize to rod keller for
accusing him of lying (and who is indeed telling the truth)?
> The rumor that it was Dennis Erlich who got Lynn jailed because he
> thought he was a Scientology spy has not been very much contradicted
> so far, and Dennis has remained conspicuously silent about it.
oh good. so now, i suppose, you will apologize to dennis erlich as well.
regards
ef
Boudewijn van Ingen
wrote:
>On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:31:14 GMT Rod Keller <rke...@voicenet.com>
>wrote:
>
>>> Joe Lynn
>>
>>Joe Lynn reported his experiences in a Los Angeles jail last week.
>>Scientology agents were involved in having him jailed for outstanding
>>warrants. Joe has been a protester against Scientology in Los Angeles,
>>and was visited by a Scientology agent while serving time.
>
>What evidences do we have to affirm that "Scientology agents were
>involved in having him jailed"?
At the time you wrote that, I had already seen more evidence to
support that claim than I had seen to contradict it. And since then,
it seems to pile up a bit, don't you think?
>I have seen no evidence of that so
>far, but it doesn't prevent Rod Keller to go on with this
>unsubstantiated accusation, like he did already in other instances.
I notice you cunningly (?) avoid to state whether you have (had) seen
any evidence of the contrary.
Somehow I get the impression that you are one of those people that
*doesn't care* about the evidence. As long as you can *name names* (as
much of your percieved "enemies" as possible) and associate these with
things that you think cause "damage" to them...
>The rumor that it was Dennis Erlich who got Lynn jailed because he
>thought he was a Scientology spy has not been very much contradicted
>so far, and Dennis has remained conspicuously silent about it.
Have you actually found out (or even started to investigate) who
exactly started that "rumor"?
I do not expect anyone to even bother to "defend" him/herself in case
of such a blatantly obvious DA story.
Of course, since to you all us "critics" are "criminals", the notion
Оnnocent until proven guilty" has no meaning at all. Thank you for
pointing that out again to our lurkers.
>Also: note how Rod Keller failed to report the incident in which a
>French Scientologists who posted to this newsgroup has been outed and
>harrassed by critics at his employment place through anonymous mail.
>As is Rod Keller's habit for everything that sheds a bad light on
>critics, he carefully avoided reporting the incident. Here it is:
>
>Message-ID: <75elp7$b...@news1.newsguy.com>
>
>"Two letters of "denunciation" were received by plant management
>this summer without provoking any reaction. But an anonymous
>letter sent to the police and the press made the matter public.
>The engineer and his wife, both scientologists, were identified
>by name.
>
>The sender, a mysterious "antiscientology collective", threatened
>the management of EDF with a "media scandal" if a decision to
>sack the scientologist wasn't quickly taken. "
You have actually verified that message??
I assume you can do a better job? When is the first issue of your
summary coming out? I'd like to subscribe as soon as possible. Should
be a good laugh at the office! ;-)
>Bernie
>http://welcome.to/ars
Nice page. Very single-sided, though. BTW I noticed the graphic at the
top. Do you have permission in writing for that? The copyright message
that's supposed to be on (at the bottom of?) your page seems to be
missing. Beware the Kobra, she strikes for less! ;-)
Groeten,
Boudewijn, Kox.
"I guarantee you that isn't true," said Mike Rinder, a top official for Scientology
Rob Clark
>Also: note how Rod Keller failed to report the incident in which a
>French Scientologists who posted to this newsgroup has been outed and
>harrassed by critics at his employment place through anonymous mail.
>As is Rod Keller's habit for everything that sheds a bad light on
>critics, he carefully avoided reporting the incident. Here it is:
also: note how bernie attacks rod for "unsubstantiated accusations" and then
makes one himself. what evidence do you have for your claim that this guy was
outed by anyone from ars?
as i thought--zilch. as for your bogus, lying claims that the erlich story has
not been contradicted, it has been contradicted by every witness and principal
in the event who has commented on it so far.
as for these "anonymous denunciations," they are of course repugnant. equally
repugnant is your cheesy attempt to blame critics from this newsgroup for
somehow having done this, despite having done nothing whatsoever while pierre
was actually posting to this newsgroup.
he was never outed on this newsgroup until someone posted this news story--the
media, and the "anonymous denouncer," are the ones guilty of this act, and you
have ZERO evidence for your bogus claim.
(of course, we are dealing here with a belgian mental defective who thinks some
imaginary "anti-cult cult" is more socially dangerous than the nerve-gassing of
subways or mass murderers in guyana.)
rob
Bernie
>It's amusing, because I did include the story about Pierre in WIR.
Very amusing indeed, since it is to be found nowhere:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Rod Keller <rke...@voicenet.com>
Subject: A.r.s Week in Review - 12/27/98
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.scientology,nl.scientology,de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology
Message-ID: <CbBh2.906$fk.91...@news3.voicenet.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:31:14 GMT
Alt.religion.scientology
Week in Review Volume 3, Issue 37
12/27/98
by Rod Keller [rke...@voicenet.com]
copyright 1998
> Clearwater Buses
> Providence Dentist
> Finland
> Germany
> Austria
> The Guardian
> Protest / Revenge Summary
> 20/20
> Joe Lynn
> Tradenet/ATG
-end-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nowhere, Keller.
Bernie
http://welcome.to/ars
Steve A
wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:31:14 GMT Rod Keller <rke...@voicenet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> Joe Lynn
> >
> >Joe Lynn reported his experiences in a Los Angeles jail last week.
> >Scientology agents were involved in having him jailed for outstanding
> >warrants. Joe has been a protester against Scientology in Los Angeles,
> >and was visited by a Scientology agent while serving time.
>
> What evidences do we have to affirm that "Scientology agents were
> involved in having him jailed"? I have seen no evidence of that so
> far, but it doesn't prevent Rod Keller to go on with this
> unsubstantiated accusation, like he did already in other instances.
Ahh, shaddup, Bernie. If your thirst for hard evidence were consistent
between that you require from critics of Scientology and that you
appear to be prepared to accept on Scientology's behalf, then you
might be justified in your nitpicking demands. Since it is not, how
can anyone take you seriously? In any case, the close involvement of
the PI Richardson seems to me to be ample evidence of Scn involvement.
> The rumor that it was Dennis Erlich who got Lynn jailed because he
> thought he was a Scientology spy has not been very much contradicted
> so far, and Dennis has remained conspicuously silent about it.
Yet you seem happy to give such a vague rumour credence, while at the
same time demanding hard evidence of Scientology's involvement.
How much more two-faced can you get?
> Also: note how Rod Keller failed to report the incident in which a
> French Scientologists who posted to this newsgroup has been outed and
> harrassed by critics at his employment place through anonymous mail.
Rod is at liberty to report what he wishes. If you do not like his
Week In Review, then I would suggest that you consider starting your
own: why should Rod be under any obligations to the cult you are
shilling for?
--
Steve A, SP4++, GGBC, KBM, Unsalvageable PTS/SP #12,
pitiable little Dennie (plD) #1, non-Mintonista.
Banned by Windows 1984 ScienoSitter (2e+isp)
"Where don't they want you to go today?" - http://www.xenu.net
Bernie
wrote:
>On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:03:04 GMT, ma...@bernie.us-inc.com (Bernie)
>wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:31:14 GMT Rod Keller <rke...@voicenet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> Joe Lynn
>> >
>> >Joe Lynn reported his experiences in a Los Angeles jail last week.
>> >Scientology agents were involved in having him jailed for outstanding
>> >warrants. Joe has been a protester against Scientology in Los Angeles,
>> >and was visited by a Scientology agent while serving time.
>>
>> What evidences do we have to affirm that "Scientology agents were
>> involved in having him jailed"? I have seen no evidence of that so
>> far, but it doesn't prevent Rod Keller to go on with this
>> unsubstantiated accusation, like he did already in other instances.
>
>Ahh, shaddup, Bernie. If your thirst for hard evidence were consistent
>between that you require from critics of Scientology and that you
>appear to be prepared to accept on Scientology's behalf, then you
>might be justified in your nitpicking demands. Since it is not, how
>can anyone take you seriously? In any case, the close involvement of
>the PI Richardson seems to me to be ample evidence of Scn involvement.
>
>> The rumor that it was Dennis Erlich who got Lynn jailed because he
>> thought he was a Scientology spy has not been very much contradicted
>> so far, and Dennis has remained conspicuously silent about it.
>
>Yet you seem happy to give such a vague rumour credence, while at the
>same time demanding hard evidence of Scientology's involvement.
>
>How much more two-faced can you get?
>
>> Also: note how Rod Keller failed to report the incident in which a
>> French Scientologists who posted to this newsgroup has been outed and
>> harrassed by critics at his employment place through anonymous mail.
>
>Rod is at liberty to report what he wishes. If you do not like his
>Week In Review, then I would suggest that you consider starting your
>own: why should Rod be under any obligations to the cult you are
>shilling for?
Jeesh! Steve. You are badly late on *both* the Lynn and Pierre count.
Reading the newsgroup before answering is a help. Of course I know
it's sometimes hard to keep track, and I sometimes do the same
mistake.
Bernie
http://welcome.to/ars
Bernie
Nostrils wrote:
>
> So "Uncle" can you guarantee only a 1/2 point downside risk??
>
> How in the fuck could anyone be so fucking stupid to come out with a
> fucking idiotic statement like this?
>
HEY NOSTRILS....
Do they get any dumber than you where you come from? lolololol
Have you looked up the price of TSIG yet?
Dork. Idiot. Numbnuts. Shit for brains.
--
eezie
To email, please remove nospam from the above address.
Bernie
>On Fri, 25 Dec 1998 16:41:45 +0100, "Christer Dufvenberg"
><h...@home.se> wrote:
>
>> >Well, seeing as it's a typical picture of the Swedish upper-class, it
>> >should be rather important to you, but, as I said, that is your
>> >problem.
>>
>> You losers, as bad as you smell and look, wouldn't get close enough to a
>> Swedish household even to get a glimpse of our high living-standard and
>> wealth. The Swedish police take good care of problems like norweenian
>> beggars sneaking around our paradise, also known as Sweden (TM).
>
>(Or Turd(TM).)
>
>I've seen your 'high standards'. Caves and dirt. Ah well.
>
That's our guest-rooms for norweenian beggars.
>> >I guess that's why we don't make money from, say, aluminum.
>>
>> I guess you're right for once.
>
>Sigh. We do make money from it, dopehead.
>
Really? So you suddenly changed your story? Who's helping you
making that money? No norweenie would be able to make money
on anything technical without foreign help.
>> >It must be that I have seen too many sweenies in my time.
>>
>> So that's makes you horny? Well, who can blame you for that. Swedes
>> are hunks.
>
>Your definition of 'hunk' is weird too. I wouldn't define pathetic
>little furry creatures as 'hunks'. You obviously do. Again, your
>problem.
>
I can't do anything about your perverted sexual preferences. That's
your problem to deal with.
>> >Harsh words, those, coming from a Swedish child molester. Er, I mean,
>> >coming from a Swede. The 'child molester' part is automatically
>> >attached to anything that has to do with 'Sweden' or 'Swedes'.
>>
>> You seems were focused on "child molesting". You get back to that subject
>> over and over again. I don't know where to find that crap, it takes a customer
>> to know where to buy such disgusting material. I'm not surprised though that
>> you know the way.
>
>It is a well known fact that Sweden is a paradise for pedophiles. I
>have never been involved in such activities myself, though. But you do
>it all the time, apparently.
>
Well, you're the expert on the subject. But honestly, you should get some
professional help. This isn't a good hobby for anyone.
>> >I think you have a thing or two to learn about fascism. Go back to
>> >school! Er, I forgot, you don't have schools over there. Ah well.
>> >Sorry, you wouldn't know what I am talking about anyway.
>>
>> I'm not surprised that you're defending your fuhrer Hagen. Bending over
>> for fascism is an old norweenian tradition, that goes back to the times
>> when your former idol Quisling, the German-lover, was running the country.
>
>Again, you have a few things to learn about fascism. I haven't
>defended nor attacked Hagen in this thread. I just state the fact that
>you really need to learn a thing or two. Or lots of things, actually.
>Which can be hard for you.
>
Sorry, but I will _never_ learn to like your fuhrer Hagen. Your way of
standing up for him tells me a lot about you though, since everyone
with any kind of decency would take his hands from fascist-Hagen
right away.
*Christer Dufvenberg
"If you ain't makin' waves, you ain't kickin' hard enough!"
Rob Clark
news:7583-36...@newsd-161.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
:James Kirk wrote:
:> Keegan was flaming?
:Ask James Koput.....he was lying about his death by brain hemmorhage.
heh. koput must intimidate you too for you to lie about him
in threads he hadn't been involved with.
you better go back to the kiddies.
el awadalla
> I live in Vienna, but I never heard of that event. What a pity,
> I missed that superb leafletting occasion.
so aufregend wie OTS berichtet, wars nicht und du kannst bei mir
nachlesen:
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/5400/neinzudrogen.html
el
-
mißtraue frömmlern und eiferern aller religionen.