BPA / DFV insurance Bad Lippspringe
Paul
By now you know that the BPA have not accepted the DFV insurance raise for
German skydivers at Bad Lippspringe. This is the worst possible news for us
but we will not give in without a fight. It is the equivelant of cutting
off a majority of any BPA dropzones customer base and there would be an
outcry of objection if this were to happen in the mainland UK.
It is clear from the stance of the BPA that they clearly do not understand
european skydiving or european
attitudes to risk management and insurance. I further suspect that that the
BPA may also be in breach of certain european statutes and we will continue
to investigate this further.
Our position at Bad Lippspringe is that:
" All skydivers who are members of a European Member state, should be able
to skydive without any form of discrimination anywhere within the EU on
their own national membership and insurance."
An excellent example of this pan european co-operation took place this
winter in Portugal when a German DZ operator (Norbert Mieir) and a UK DZ
operator (Steve Swallow) both took their Dorniers to a DZ in Portugal and
operated together. The DZ was run under the German Ops manual regulations
and no skydiver of any nationality was discriminated against in any way, nor
were BPA members made to join the DFV or any other organisation. An
estimated 14 different nationalities jumped there together over the winter,
without any problem whatsoever. Surely this is a fine example of what
european community and skydiving is all about??
I hope you all realise that we at Bad Lippspringe welcome our German friends
and
colleagues and we will do everything we can to reverse this stupid and ill
thought out decision by the BPA. Until then, be aware that the BPA require
us to ensure that everyone jumping at Bad Lippspringe is a BPA member. This
is not our decision but a requirement of the BPA council. If you object to
this I would be grateful if you could write to the BPA and copy your letter
or e-mail to me and to the FAI and the British Royal Aero Club.
Many thanks,
Paul Moore
Commandant RAPA
Copy letters to BPA to:
British Parachute Association, 5 Wharf Way, Glen Parva, Leicester LE2 9TF
Tel 0116 278 5271 Fax 0116 247 7662 e-mail sky...@bpa.org.uk
Max Bishop
Secretary General
Fédération Aéronautique Internationale
Avenue Mon-Repos 24
CH-1005 LAUSANNE
Switzerland
FAI - The World Air Sports Federation
Tel: +41 21 345 1070
Fax: +41 21 345 1077
Email: ma...@fai.org
Website : http://www.fai.org
Mrs Diana King
General Secretary
Royal Aero Club
Radford Barn
Radford Semele
Leamington Spa
CV31 1UT
Tel 01926 332713
Fax 01926 335206
email secr...@royalaeroclub.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ludwig Schmude" <ludwig...@tiscalinet.de>
To: "Wolfgang Schäfer" <wos...@web.de>; "Wolf-Dieter Fink"
<Wolf-Die...@web.de>; "Werner Trombern" <wernert...@freenet.de>;
"Werner Engelhardt" <werner.e...@freenet.de>; "Uwe Willme"
<uwe.w...@t-online.de>; "Uwe Langer" <ula...@web.de>; "Uwe Friebe"
<u.fr...@pader-messebau.de>; "Ulrich Zimmermann"
<uli.zim...@onlinehome.de>; "Udo Gerwin" <Udo.G...@t-online.de>;
"Tomas Brand" <brand...@aol.com>; "Tobias Schniedermeier"
<tobias.sch...@arcor.de>; "Thomas Selgert" <tsbie...@aol.com>;
"Thomas Diehl" <rae.gerst...@t-online.de>; "Stefanie Beyer"
<steff...@gmx.de>; "Stefan Becker" <sturp...@gmx.de>; "Simone
Wienhausen" <Swien...@kluge.de>; "Siegfried Lauenstein"
<Slaue...@SL-EDV-Paderborn.de>; "Sabine Närdemann" <Sa...@t-online.de>;
"Renate Wieler" <m-...@t-online.de>; "Reiner Kiehl" <R.K...@t-online.de>;
"Regina Supe" <gina...@aol.com>; "Rainer Bruns" <Rainer...@aol.com>;
"Petra Gatti" <hex...@gmx.de>; "Peter Klegraf" <peterk...@t-online.de>;
"Paul Moore" <paul...@t-online.de>; "Paul Behler"
<plai...@compuserve.de>; "Oliver Hörster" <O...@hoerster.org>; "Norbert
Willeke" <Norbert...@vgs.com.sg>; "Norbert Meier"
<Norber...@DO28-Flugcharter.de>; "Nicole Watson" <ste...@onetel.com>;
"Michael Postert" <POST...@aol.com>; "Martina Schwierzke"
<stylingS...@t-online.de>; "Markus Klich" <markus...@gmx.net>;
"Marita Rüsing" <mar...@marijo.net>; "Maria Schönauer"
<tiam...@high-tec.info>; "Ludwig Schmude" <ludwig...@tiscalinet.de>;
"Ludger Vosskamp" <luv...@t-online.de>; "Linda Klute" <lynd...@gmx.de>;
"Kurt Meiwes" <blue_s...@web.de>; "Knocker Cole"
<Andre...@t-online.de>; "Kai Berning" <kaika...@aol.com>; "Jürgen
Schneider" <icar...@aol.com>; "Jürgen Kley"
<j.k...@tka-ut.thyssenkrupp.com>; "Joachim Seise"
<Joachi...@t-online.de>; "Hubert Merschmann" <hume...@aol.com>; "Holger
Gnoth" <holger...@bluehash.de>; "Harald Tillenburg"
<HuA.Til...@t-online.de>; "Hans-Peter Bittenbring" <Pe...@t-online.de>;
"Günter Schipp" <g.sc...@gmx.net>; "Guido Austrup" <aus...@onlinehome.de>;
"Gerhard Kluge" <g.f...@freenet.de>; "Gerhard Hauck"
<Gerhar...@t-online.de>; "Fabian Wolf" <fabia...@volkswagen.de>;
"Dirk Pecuch" <Dirk....@spedition-Pecuch.de>; "Dirk Marlies Mehrmann"
<dmjl.m...@t-online.de>; "Christiane Gockel" <christia...@omp.de>;
"Christian Blawat" <c4ge...@aol.com>; "Carlo Boss" <cim....@gmx.de>;
"Burkhard Stork" <bst...@gmx.de>; "BishTute" <bish...@t-online.de>; "Bill
Sharp" <Bshar...@aol.com>; "Bernd Becker" <hbb...@web.de>; "Beate
Thieman" <beate....@gmx.de>; "Volker Cornils" <volker....@pops-d.de>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:38 PM
Subject: Aktuelles von der BPA 01.04.2005
> Hallo zusammen,
>
> die BPA hat heute geantwortet und kramt wieder irgendwelche
> fadenscheinigen
> Gründe hervor.
>
> Wer morgen also springen will in Bad Lipp muß eine temporäre/ oder volle
> Mitgliedschaft abschließen. Es ist zu empfehlen die temporäre mit cash zu
> bezahlen, wenn dann innerhalb der nächsten 1, 2 Wochen vielleicht doch
> noch
> die BPA einen Rückzieher macht, hat man eine Chance zu ändern.
>
> An die BPA habe ich dann heute das folgende geschrieben :
>
>
> Hallo Martin, Hallo Paul,
>
> thanks for your answer.
>
> I believe you do understand that the BPA mandatory membership and
> insurance
> cover in no way is acceptable to any skydiver in the world.
>
> 1. We german, french or other european skydiver allready have sufficient
> insurance cover, worldwide. For us/germans for example there is no problem
> to jump even in the USA, (where BPA insurance I believe isn´t valid since
> 1988) ? So why are you telling us that we have to do something about it ?
>
> 2. We are not talking student business, instructing or tandem , just
> expirienced jumpers going abroad. Therefore it is just down to Third Party
> Insurance. Something a jumper does to somebody or something. How can a
> jumper indemnify RAPA as a club or the BPA ? Indemnify ? That is RAPA or
> the
> BPA problem, not the thing to worry about by the visiting jumper. If you
> take your car to a trip through Europe are you/ or anybody you know
> actually
> buying cover for each country ? I don?t believe that, are you ?
>
> 3. The BPA is giving a 100.000 BP/ ~ 140.000 ? limit for jumping at non
> affiliated club as of 01.04.2005. This maybe your private way to do
> things,
> but as of 01.08.2004 there is european aviation law and minimum coverage
> is
> mandatory. I do believe that GB is in one way or the other belonging to
> the
> EC, "harmonisation" "JAR" are the key word. But the way the BPA or your
> organisation are treating this, is isolating GB even more.
>
>
> 4. Hercules Boogie in Sweden, Vichy Boogie in France or just the winter
> time
> jumping in Spain or Portugal will be history for all the british jumpers.
> But what about the others, like german,french or etc. ? They will travel
> as
> usual through the EC with their valid license and insurance. No problem,
> because it is all the EC ! A perfect example is a DZ in Portugal where a
> german DZ Operator, along with a english one have there thing going one
> with
> jumpers of every european country, as long as they are licensed and valid
> insured.
>
> 5. There is Bad Lippspringe DZ in Germany, run under BPA Operations Manual
> and being visited by expierenced german, french or other country jumper
> (no
> instructing or Tandem). Tell me the difference to the DZ in Portugal ?
> None
> !
>
>
> 6. I aspect to being treated as a member of the European Union, I live in
> Germany, have a german passport, a german license and valid german
> insurance
> to cover my (possible) damages. What does the BPA / or insurance actually
> want ?
>
>
> please let me know your answer,
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Ludwig Schmude
> Talleweg 31
> 33104 Paderborn
>
> Germany
>
>
> ... your mind is like a parachute :
>
> ..... it works much better, when it's open ...
>
>
>
>
Mick Cooper
"Paul" <Paul...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:d2keqf$qtv$02$1...@news.t-online.com...
> Hi everybody,
>
> I hope you all realise that we at Bad Lippspringe welcome our German
> friends and
> colleagues and we will do everything we can to reverse this stupid and ill
> thought out decision by the BPA. Until then, be aware that the BPA
> require
> us to ensure that everyone jumping at Bad Lippspringe is a BPA member.
> This
> is not our decision but a requirement of the BPA council. If you object
> to
> this I would be grateful if you could write to the BPA and copy your
> letter
> or e-mail to me and to the FAI and the British Royal Aero Club.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Paul Moore
> Commandant RAPA
>
> Copy letters to BPA to:
>
why don't you run Bad Lippspringe as a DSV dropzone?
what difference does it make to the British army as to which sport parachute
association they align themselves to? If the BPA and their insurers can't
sort their act out then dump them and join the DSV. BPA members would be
able to jump there as visiting jumpers presumably as temporary members of
the DSV and the military jumpers could do so as DSV members - or as BPA
members if they wished. Surely you just need to get the APA to sanction it
and off you go.
just thought I'd ask out of idle curiosity
Mick
Geordie Page
into practice. Paul I think has a unique case and where as I don't agree
with him in many areas I think this is so unique that the BPA must look to
resolving this specific issue asp. I am unsure as to why the council can't
allow it but will wait until I am armed with all the facts before jumping in
with both feet. A common flaw of mine.
"Mick Cooper" <do...@spamme.com> wrote in message
news:42510891$0$291$cc9e...@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
Mick Cooper
"Geordie Page" <geord...@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:sga4e.7485$S9....@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
>A good question Mick but as with most soloutions it sounds simple until put
>into practice. Paul I think has a unique case and where as I don't agree
>with him in many areas I think this is so unique that the BPA must look to
>resolving this specific issue asp. I am unsure as to why the council can't
>allow it but will wait until I am armed with all the facts before jumping
>in with both feet. A common flaw of mine.
surely its something we all do?
jumping with both feet ...........
well - most of us.
Steve Watson
> snip
>
> Our position at Bad Lippspringe is that:
>
> " All skydivers who are members of a European Member state, should be
able
> to skydive without any form of discrimination anywhere within the EU
on
> their own national membership and insurance."
snip
--------------------
Hi Paul,
I totally agree with you mate.
When I was still in the forces, based in Germany and jumping mainly at
RAPA [as you know], not once was I forced to join the DFV when I
regularly jumped at 3 separate German clubs.
I also jumped quite often in Belgium, and visited Holland, France,
Spain and Luxembourg.
Again, not once was I forced to take out even "temporary", let alone
"Full" membership in any of these countries.
Yet here we have the BPA, forcing German Skydivers to take out "Full"
BPA membership [correct me if I'm wrong on that, but that's how it used
to be], to jump at a BPA run dropzone IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
Pretty ludicrous when you think about it.
Especially as they HAVE to members of the DFV as well, to jump at
German DZ's.
If the tables where turned, and we [Brits] were forced to take out
temporary membership, on top of our BPA membership each time we jumped
abroad it would soon get quite pricey, especially for those who tend
not to jump much in UK anyway.
Before you know it, the people who mainly do trips abroad, will bin the
BPA, and just take temporary membership in the country they are
visiting.
Admittedly, it won't be that many, but I believe that some people
already do it.
Good luck
Steve Watson
in...@goskydive.com
Pete Mac
Drop Bear (Dru Spork)
understand it) is a standard military requirement to meet UK standards.
So adopt (indepenantly) the BPA procedures and move on. Why work so hard
to meet the requirements of an organisation that palpably doesnt give a
fuck [about this particular part of the membership]?
Dru
t c grocutt
Drop Bear (Dru Spork) wrote:
> Utimately I have to agree. The only reason RAPA operate under BPA (as I
> understand it) is a standard military requirement to meet UK standards.
> So adopt (indepenantly) the BPA procedures and move on. Why work so hard
> to meet the requirements of an organisation that palpably doesnt give a
> fuck [about this particular part of the membership]?
Are BPA instructor rating recognized by the DFV? If not how many of the
instructors at Bad Lippspringe have DFV rating as well.
tom
Steve Watson
> Hi everybody,
>
> By now you know that the BPA have not accepted the DFV insurance
raise for
> German skydivers at Bad Lippspringe. This is the worst possible news
for us
> but we will not give in without a fight. It is the equivelant of
cutting
> off a majority of any BPA dropzones customer base and there would be
an
> outcry of objection if this were to happen in the mainland UK.
>
------------------------------
Hi Paul,
Just wanted to get something clear.
I already fully understand [and sympathise with] how this Insurance
situation COULD mean RAPA losing the majority of it's regular German
jumpers.
As not everyone will want to pay for "Expensive Complicated BPA
membership", for the pleasure of jumping at Bad Lippspringe, ON TOP of
paying for "Affordable Efficient DFV membership, which covers them just
about everywhere else. (Including the USA)
But does it affect the British BPA members based in Germany as well?
ie. Does the £2 million insurance drop to £100K, because Bad
Lippspringe is in Germany, or does it stay at £2 million because it's
part of a British Military base?
Surely The Joint Services Parachute Centre in Cyprus must be in the
same boat?
I've never been there, but are they inside or outside the SBA?
Cheers
Steve Watson