Re:

[Aatif Kamal]

Dear Waqas,

I read ur email several times to understand the core of the problem that you are trying to raise. And identified following points

1) Very weak understanding of programming concepts which resulted in 17 Fs Grades in C Programming
2) teaching C# right after c programming course is very difficult to handle for the students.
3) Weak students require extra help and attention to cover void that exist between them and other class fellows .


Now let me answer these issues one by one with total honesty.

Issue one:   After going through one intensive course of C Programming basics if someone still cannot able to run loops and under stand conditional statement then I feel like their is a serious issue with those students. I have very clear question for these students "Are you putting in all your efforts to learn and are you doing justice with your studies?" If answer is yes or in future you are willing to put in real effort I AM WILLING TO HELP   THEM IN IMPROVING THEIR PROGRAMMING in every way possible. So you can come up with some plan how can we do that. One could be that we can arrange number of seminars under iNEAT, ACM and IEEE forum and can do group study what do you say?

Issue Two: learning C# after C is not much of a difficult task. I can give many examples of universities where Java or C# is being taught as first programming language. Learning Programming is like learning Maths. I can explain the concept, can give assignments/quizzes to make you work But in the end it all depends upon the individual how much practice he/she is doing . C# is easy languages to learn if one is willing to learn. Please remember   courses and their outline in your degree programme is being defined and included after carefully analyzing current and future market demand. Objective of these courses are to better train our graduates to compete in the professional world. It will be very easy for me to teach my students some old outdated language like VB6 in DBMS course and safe my self from lots of hard work. But this will effect your future very adversely and I think morally  and professionally it will be highly unfair from my side. Being part of Pakistan's best institute we expect our students to become the best trained professionals which most clearly require extra effort from students as well.

Issues Three: In my class I have said so many times that if you got any question or need any help related to programming or this course you can come to me any time. And you will find me most willing person to answer your question and solve your problem. In my class I always invite my students to ask questions . But if you will not ask questions and don't tell me that you are not been able to understand then how do you expect me to know that you didn't understood what I am teaching.
I simply don't agree with your division & definition of students grouping among good students and weak students.   In my point of view their are two types of students one who are willing to work hard and they put in real effort in learning other are who always say they are willing to learn but in reality they don't put in real effort. Being teacher I will teach both of them but hard working students due to their hard work will move ahead and other group will stay behind unless until they  them self don't decide to work hard. So it all boils down to the same old very critical question what in reality these students are willing to do to learn.

I hope I answered your queries, now its  your job to come up with some preliminary plan how we can arrange extra classes or seminars improving programming skills of BICSE4 weak students after consulting with them and meet me in my office in next two days.

And next time I hope when you will write on our course discussion forum it will be about some c# or Database technical issue/s which was the main reason why we created this forum.

And finally my fav. quote "Science may have found a cure for most evils; but is has found no remedy for the worst of them all - the apathy of human beings." by Helen Keller

 
Regards
Aatif

On 10/8/07, Gul Waqas Shahid <gulwaqa...@hotmail.com> wrote:

hello & Asallam  o allikum , 
This mail is basically from many students of our class BICSE 4B and i hope that also from the other section.
Sir, we want to tell you some prerequisite from our class(as every course has a prerequisite). that our section
was awarded by 17 F grades in programming subject and i hope that you don`t  know it(and we don`t wana discuss its reasons it with you
now because they have to appear in the retest. ).80% of students in the class
does not know how to use the loops and other simple structured things.
Now this C# , sir i challenge you that if you give the same assignment to students that they make it in C++
80% will unable to make it.if no  "CHAPPA " is allowed.Sir im very sorry to say that we are unable to understand
whatever you teach us the maximum students didn`t know what is this console.writeline , args, and all that signature
sir you give us a assignment direct of matrix multiplication . From the code anyone can teach and understand what happens
and through debugger everyone understands what is happenig in the compiler.
Sir you teach us whole 2 hours the code which we can do by overselves.The main problem is logic thinking, sir you must
,i think i must say kindly develop this in us.You must help us in learing the C# enviroment , the encourgement.
MOST IMPORTANT THINGS:
Reading from the internet and e-books is available to all. But by this anyone can do their matric ,fsc in their home.Sir teacher has
many responsibilities specially to the poor students.Sir if we have to make assignments and our work in this stage from the
internet self learnig than why we daily come to CHakllala.Just to say to our relatives that we study in NUST.
Sir im very soory to say that your assignment , leactures , are purely for THETAz i hope you know this term.(who get 4 CGPA).
Sir if you donot teach them they will again get 4 GPA.
But happens to those who have seen that dump machine first time in last september.Those who will until now unable
to understand the nested loop. Sir , whenever i say this thing i was answered that the will never learn this because they donot want to learn
. This is same as a driving teacher said to their student that
 
"kaey main tumhain kaise ghare chalana sekhaoon , tumhain garii chalana atti hi nahi"

Same is happenig with us.Sir kindly take that students with you.They need your intense help.
Sir in your lecture you tell us how to writeline and read line. and the assignment includes all programming.
I think it is very simple to make this but due to large amount of study nobody touch it.
one more thing about the bounce point , Sir this is not encourgement this is discourgement to students like us.that we will never
get more than 8 marks from 10 .We are unable to make classess in C++ whose sintax we learn you gave it us in C#.
Much of us have still not have VIsual studio.(Sir you must have to tell us in the first day which you tell us in last week class).
In this week we didn`t get the CDs buy one this is not ok ,incomplete ,Copy from the NIIT that is not working.but these problems can be
handled.
there are many other problems that we wna discuss if we get a good responce from yourself of this
thank you for giving your time
Shahid , Gul W.

---

Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it!

[Anna Aisha]

Assalam-o-Alaikum All

I simply want to extend my help to the students who need help in logic
building and learning how to program.
true enough I dont know C# , but I do have the know how of many other
programing languages (beside language is just a syntax, main thing is
how you plan to sove the problem), and I would like to help the
students who need to be guided to the path a programmers' mind take
while making the logic to get a certain problem solved.

and SIR....
if you want, then I can take few classes of the students on logic building.

regards
Ain-ul-Aisha

--
Love me Coz I Love U
Anna!!!!!!

[Aatif Kamal]

Thanks for your support.

We can use ACM or iNETA forum to arrange such concept building classes. Please discuss with BICSE4 students about the content of these classes  and then we can arrange that right after eid.

Thanks
Aatif

[Fauzia]

Salam,
Wel honestly telling u guys m really surpeised aftr reading
ur mails,the TRUTH is we cant push the logic of a program into ur mind
rather no body in this whole world can do dis, we can tel u ppl like
do multiply the two matrices now its ur decision that ahan i shd do
this step first n this step next and so on. If we have to tel u that
first declare the matrics, initilize it and so on than when next
program will come u wil hav a blank mind again :)
so if u really wanna do pramming visualize the thngz at ur
own, think okay if my teacher is telling me this way to solve this
problm wht are the othr ways of doing it, be passionate abt this thng
n yes to begin wid if u need any help do contact us.
and abt that grade or gpa thing mara i had a C in intro to IT
course, i was like u guys i was nt even knw how to attach a doc wid a
mail, but in the v nxt sem i got A in Data structures and a B+ in OOP,
the purpose of writing this thng is that just focus wht is in ur hand
and thats the only way to success, dont thnk that ur programming is
bad thnk that u hav to improve it :), i hope problms wil b solved but
again give time to the subj.
Regards,
Fauzia Noureen
Bit-6

On Oct 9, 10:49 pm, "Aatif Kamal" <aatif.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for your support.
>
> We can use ACM or iNETA forum to arrange such concept building classes.
> Please discuss with BICSE4 students about the content of these classes and
> then we can arrange that right after eid.
>
> Thanks
> Aatif
>

> On 10/9/07, Anna Aisha <anna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Assalam-o-Alaikum All
>
> > I simply want to extend my help to the students who need help in logic
> > building and learning how to program.
> > true enough I dont know C# , but I do have the know how of many other
> > programing languages (beside language is just a syntax, main thing is
> > how you plan to sove the problem), and I would like to help the
> > students who need to be guided to the path a programmers' mind take
> > while making the logic to get a certain problem solved.
>
> > and SIR....
> > if you want, then I can take few classes of the students on logic
> > building.
>
> > regards
> > Ain-ul-Aisha
>

> > Anna!!!!!!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -