Am I missing something here??

[PCLAB]

Today I saw this one by chance...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipz970vmgzM

The guy says that the preamp is dead because the PCB is shorted...

How do you know if the Preamp is dead just because the PCB is shorted?

Friday I repaired a Toshiba PCB, that was on an external enclosure, with a fried board and also the HDD PCB also with TVS fried.

Just removed the TVS and drive is back to work.

I think these guys are not very well educated on DR yet (I'm not not ahhaha)

[Luke Coughey]

If they don't want to fix the wd pcb, it looked good enough to read the ROM via boot ROM mode.  Program a healthy PCB and mirror.  It is very rare to see a blown preamp on this model of Western Digital drive, in my experience. 

Another example of why I feel that they shouldn't be making data recovery videos yet.

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[t...@desertdatarecovery.com]

Agree with all the comments. As Luke says why not try to pull the ROM via boot code. If you can, you will definitely know if it has affected the preamp.

 

Tim Homer - Lead Engineer

Desert Data Recovery

t...@desertdatarecovery.com

www.desertdatarecovery.com

 

From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of DiskTuna
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2020 5:58 AM
To: DataRecoveryCertification <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

 

FWIW, the quasi nonchalant attitude of the entire video, looking around bored while taking out screws for example, makes me go like, I would never, ever send my drive there .. 

Click, click, click .. here's all the good stuff (translation: I don't know what the f*ck this all means) but I'll try to sound as if I do ..

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/652194ae-41d7-4997-a92d-43dc441387c4%40googlegroups.com.

[wayne horner]

looks seized to me

they never say whether it spins or not

the donor pcb shows the same reated load spikes on the power.

Seems to me that the preamp only gets damaged about 1 out of 10 times

that was 20 minutes of video

and 2 minutes of content

Alandata Data Recovery -  (949)287-3282  
"Cleanroom Data Recovery of RAID, VMware, Network Attached Storage, Linux, Tape, Disk, Forensics"

www.AlanData.com   www.AlanDataRecovery.com

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/024801d62c59%24da4eb0f0%248eec12d0%24%40desertdatarecovery.com.

[compos mentis]

I would not let this guy touch my data. 

There was no "short" in either current profile. In any case, if the preamp were shorted, then we would have seen excessive current on the +5V (or -5V) rails, not the 12V side. The 12V side powers the spindle motor and VCM.

The differences in the start-up current could be explained by a more aggressive spin-up profile in some models. For example, some laptop drives have a jumper setting which selects "reduced current spin-up".

His claim that overvolting an enclosure can result in damage to the preamp is not likely. I have seen many such events in the user forums, and they have always resulted in a shorted 12V TVS diode. The 5V side almost always survives because it is down regulated from the 12V input by the bridge board. So even in the presence of 19V, the 5V regulator still outputs 5V.

This guy measured nothing. My guess is that he doesn't know how to use a multimeter. At the very least he should have tested D3, D4, R64 and R67.

AFAICT, the absence of any significant current on the 5V side would suggest that the SMOOTH chip is dead. This chip generates the onboard supplies from the 5V input.

If I were approaching this problem, I would have measured the Vcore and Vio supplies, and I would have measured the resistances at each of the preamp's supply pins (if the preamp were suspect).

[compos mentis]

Have I got it wrong? Is there is a short on the 12V supply?

The PC3K current profile appears to be showing two bursts of current on the 12V rail, with an amplitude of 2.5A. Is 2.5A the current limit setting for the 12V output? If so, is PC3K "buzzing" the 12V input of the HDD? Does each burst consist of repeating on - limit - off cycles? That is, does PC3K power on the 12V supply, then hit the 2.5A current limit, then power off the 12V supply, and repeat this cycle until a set number of retries are exhausted. If that is the case, then it seems like a brutal thing to do.

I notice that Steve dismisses those labs with clean rooms, claiming that these are only a gimmick to justify higher prices to their clients. I would argue that this whole video could be dismissed on the very same basis. A competent tech does not need a $10K piece of kit to test for shorts. In fact, I would argue that one should not expose such equipment to risk of damage when a $5 multimeter can do the same, or better, job.

[Alandata Recovery]

seems the message of the video is

only REAL data recovery guys have this current measuring thingy

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[compos mentis]

https://blog.acelaboratory.com/pc-3000-pc-3000-express-new-revision.html

It seems that something was lost in the translation ...

"Moreover, in the main PC-3000 settings it has become possible to set the voltage limits of Sound Warning in case of over-current. The new PC-3000 Power Adapter has small beeping speaker which can warn the user about issues with a power supply block in the PC or about problems with over-current. You can set the voltage limits for Input and Channels – in case of voltage excess, the user will hear the warning “BEEEEP” sound:

Voltage limits for over-current warning sounds"

What does the first sentence mean?

Why would there be a voltage limit for an output channel? Vout can never be greater than Vin, so one would set the Vin limit and not bother with Vout, or am I missing something?

What does a voltage limit setting have to do with over-current? Shouldn't the user be setting an over-current limit? Is there such a setting?

[t...@desertdatarecovery.com]

I do not have the current monitoring feature so I am obviously not a real DR dude…. However I suspect this is just a translation ‘error’. We see that a lot in Aces manuals and explanations.

 

Tim Homer - Lead Engineer

Desert Data Recovery

t...@desertdatarecovery.com

www.desertdatarecovery.com

 

From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of compos mentis
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 2:00 AM
To: DataRecoveryCertification <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

 

https://blog.acelaboratory.com/pc-3000-pc-3000-express-new-revision.html

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[DiskTuna]

lol.

He addressed this thread in follow up video, making all the "pros" look stupid. He even shows an edited screenshot @ https://youtu.be/8WEbf3B-Lz0?t=4520.

2 of the comments are by me, not being a hardware pro at all, simply stating how I don't like the quasi nonchalant attitude. It's just a matter of taste, dude. I was not one of the people commenting on shorts, preamps and whatnot. I'm no child so kudos for recovering the data.

[Luke Coughey]

The other comment was by me. When the original video was posted, it wasn't made known (at least not that I noticed), that there were major burn marks on the original PCB, outside the normal damage.  In hindsight, after seeing a follow-up video where he showed the scorch marks, it made a little more sense as to why they might think the head preamp is toast.

I still don't think it is wise to be posting videos of actual client cases and trying to fumble around.

Luke Coughey

CEO

Recovery Force Inc

866-750-3169

http://www.recoveryforce.com

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[compos mentis]

By all means, send your Apple stuff to Rossman. For data recovery, go somewhere else.

[t...@desertdatarecovery.com]

I believe Steve is a member of the group and we should welcome him.

We did perhaps jump to conclusions as we saw the video from a pro data recovery standpoint.

Had we have known about scorch marks on the PCB our opinions would have been different.

As Steve was not making a video for us, but for the public, then omitting that info was not a problem to him.

Steve, there are a lot of contributors to this forum from various fields, not necessarily from data recovery.

We value all opinions.

Hope you can contribute.

 

Tim Homer - Lead Engineer

Desert Data Recovery

t...@desertdatarecovery.com

www.desertdatarecovery.com

 

From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of compos mentis
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:22 PM
To: DataRecoveryCertification <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

 

By all means, send your Apple stuff to Rossman. For data recovery, go somewhere else.

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[Steve]

Hi Tim and All,

Thanks for the welcome! I originally intended to post a response in this thread sooner, but things got out of hand here in NYC. 

The drive was recovered in full. I actually started an experiment with these WD Green drives vs the Black series, using our power supply at the shop to recreate PSU surges. I will probably post a video of it sometime, but out of the two that I quickly tested, the Motor IC on the WD Green blew instantly and killed the heads (I think I sent 12V @ 4A to the 5V rail), whereas on the WD Black it survived (diode blew up)! As you know, these WD Greens are simply terrible when it comes to overvoltage/surges. 

The video I made was simply for beginners, yes. I actually did mention that the original PCB was scorched, even showed what the drive does with a new PCB. The video was long, so I get it.  The power monitor was just a feature of PC3000 that I wanted to showcase. It helps to quickly identify what the issue is, even without removing the PCB. I know how to use a multimeter, I know how to find shorts, etc. It's not that difficult, just time consuming. 

We had a lot of requests from people to post the recovery process, so I did just that. Very few edits (cut outs of when I had to help others at the shop). I even left the stumbling bits in there, because that shows the actual recovery process. We all stumble sometimes, and go down the wrong troubleshooting path, etc.  

I admit, I did get agitated at the responses originally made in this thread.  It's all good though, I saw where you guys were coming from and left it at that.  

Hope everyone is staying safe.

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 5:43:06 PM UTC-4, Tim - Desert Data Recovery wrote:

I believe Steve is a member of the group and we should welcome him.

We did perhaps jump to conclusions as we saw the video from a pro data recovery standpoint.

Had we have known about scorch marks on the PCB our opinions would have been different.

As Steve was not making a video for us, but for the public, then omitting that info was not a problem to him.

Steve, there are a lot of contributors to this forum from various fields, not necessarily from data recovery.

We value all opinions.

Hope you can contribute.

 

Tim Homer - Lead Engineer

Desert Data Recovery

t...@desertdatarecovery.com

www.desertdatarecovery.com

 

From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of compos mentis
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:22 PM
To: DataRecoveryCertification <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

 

By all means, send your Apple stuff to Rossman. For data recovery, go somewhere else.

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[MrAnderson]

I think that the point to be made here is that if that was actually a clients hard drive you were working on while yabbing away and "stumbling" is not professional data recovery by any means.  The videos that are being made by your company is only hurting your reputation in the industry.  You should focus and concentrate while working on client drives, not exploit sloppy work that will encourage others to do the same.  Especially with your large following.  This is how I feel.

Don Anderson

TriStateData.com

[$300 Data Recovery]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Steve! I always appreciate videos of other shops and hearing what other techs have to say. 

[Mr. Networks]

Why doesnt someone else make a video that meets their standards and share it. No need to keep hating on our new member.

Jim

On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:15 PM, MrAnderson <drago...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[MrAnderson]

Hi Jim,

Here is what professional data recovery looks like on a Seagate Rosewood.

Compare it with everyone elses.  This is how long it should take...

https://youtu.be/Qd7tk25Mygo

https://youtu.be/7Mp5M03iB18

Nobody is hating, just trying to fix the industry that's been damaged throughout the years.  Just think about it.

To the untrained eye, those videos look super interesting from Rossman.  To the trained eye, it's Howard Stern attempting data recovery.

Thank you,

Don Anderson

TriStateData.com

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/ed9a3412-f500-4880-9eef-11e9ec36b5b6o%40googlegroups.com.

[$300 Data Recovery]

It really depends on who the audience is. I agree, Don, your setup looks clean and professional, good for potential customers. Steves videos are also good for a different market of potential customers and also computer repair enthusiasts who just want to learn more about a subject they know nothing about. 

As a data recovery technician, "HDD Recovery Services" has the best videos because I typically learn something new in every video. I'm sure they also look good to potential customers, computer repair enthusiasts, and data recovery technicians. Not sure if Akin (sp?) is in this group or not, but he deserves a big shout-out as having the best data recovery technician on youtube (at least, in my opinion). I've learned so much from his channel and find his videos to be an invaluable learning tool. 

[MrAnderson]

Everyone has different opinions in this industry.  I've seen a few of HDD Recovery Services videos and I think he's intelligent.  The best videos, no.

Brian, although I think you are actually a good guy, I don't agree with your business model.  I'll just leave it at that.

It costs money. There are no two ways around it.  Offering the cheapest service around only draws in the customers that don't want to pay or value their data.

I'm a business man as well.  Also this guy you talk about is in Canada, he should work on his own economy.  The US economy needs to stay local if you don't already realize this.

I'm not your enemy.  I started out in IT like everyone else.  I just realized what's involved in this and took a different route.

Tim, I apologize for calling you a troll and Luke for calling you Tubby.

We just need to change the way this industry is run in America.  It's a constant investment.  We can't keep reducing the value of our professional services, especially in NYC where the cost of living is double.

That's it for today.  Enjoy your weekend guys.

Don Anderson

TriStateData.com

[compos mentis]

Steve, perhaps you should tell people the full story.

As I see it, anything that needed to have been said should have been said in the original video. Anything that is said after the mistakes have been pointed out is liable to be construed as damage control and spin.

In the original video, you presented just one single piece of diagnostic evidence, and that was an overload on the 12V supply. Despite identifying the diodes and resistors correctly, you made no effort to reach for a multimeter and test their resistances. I was left to wonder whether you even knew how. Instead you proclaimed, without providing additional evidence, that the preamp was probably bad. Presumably the customer would have been quoted/billed accordingly. 

The fact is that your conclusion has no logical basis. You did nothing to actually test the preamp. Moreover, the preamp is powered from the +5V and -5V supplies, not +12V, so the chances of a fault on the +12V supply reaching the preamp are very low. In fact the Internet has numerous examples where people have removed a shorted 12V TVS diode and recovered their data. The original video is completely consistent with such a simple scenario.

The fact that you knowingly subjected an expensive piece of equipment (PC3000, US$5K - $10K) to a deliberate and sustained short circuit just beggars belief. If you had done that to my gear, I would have shown you the door. 

See this thread:

https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=39348&p=278155#p278155

The poster berates himself for plugging a shorted HDD into his MRT Ultra, with the result that he blew up the TPS2590 (5A, 20V High-Current Load Switch).

"I had two situations with similar problems. In one of them I did the nonsense of plugging a shorted HDD into one of the ports. I was testing a large batch of HDDs and had checked them all for a possible short, but it seems that some were not checked. ATA0 started to present problem. I also bought some TPS2590 on Aliexpress, but while it wasn't coming I removed the TPS from the board (5V and 12V) and put them back. The problem is gone."

PC3000 uses the same load switch, probably because MRT copied the design. Here is a case where a PC3K user is having problems with one of his power ports:

http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=216&t=2422

AISI, the design philosophy behind this gear is all wrong. When it detects a current overload, it shuts down, then restarts, then shuts down, then restarts, and it keeps hammering the customer's drive (ie data) in this way until the equipment fails, or the HDD fails, or the operator decides to turn it off. If it were my gear, I would reconfigure the TPS2590 to shut down on the very first overload. One can do this by removing a single resistor.

From the TPS2590 datasheet ...

"The RTRY resistor (at pin 6) is linked to ground. This means that 'the TPS2590 will attempt to restart after an overcurrent fault. If [RTRY is] floating (high), the device will latch RTRY off after an overcurrent fault and will not attempt to restart until EN or Vin is cycled off and on'." 

In subsequent private communication, you told me that ...

"The PCB was shorted.  You were not the first person that had doubts, so I actually went about to prove that it was indeed shorted.  I attached a picture of the PCB after I found the short via a thermal cam.  I measured everything prior to making the video, but simply forgot to do it on video -- I even measured the spindle/motor contacts, no short there.  The 5V TVS diode was bad, and so was the 12V" 

... to which I replied ...

"At first you were using PC3K as a short circuit tester, and then you followed it up with a thermal camera, all because you couldn't be bothered to reach for a multimeter? Don't you understand how bad that looks?"

You then wrote ...

"You have a very valid argument here. It does look bad, but as I said, that is not how I came to a conclusion that we have a bad preamp here. Before this fancy toy I used to check Vcore, Vio, all diodes, fuses etc etc. Then I realized with the WD greens that there is a high chance of preamp damage (as I said I've seen at least 10, with 15 likely being the more accurate number -- all ended up with a successful recovery except for one, on that one the heads crashed into the platters). Interestingly enough, I don't recall the current draw on that case. It was also opened up by the client, so who knows what happened there.  

​

The first thing I did when this drive came in was check the diodes and fuses. I immediately knew there was a short on the 12V diode. As I have done this successfully several times, I used power monitor to check current draw, and saw a 2.5A draw. Let me be clear -- every single time that I have seen a 2.5A draw has ended up being a bad preamp and a shorted PCB. You don't have to take my word for this, keep it in mind for next time.  The next case I get in I will make another short video showcasing this. This isn't the first time I've come across this issue, something I don't think I've made very clear here."

Does anyone believe any of this, especially the statement that "every single time that I have seen a 2.5A draw has ended up being a bad preamp and a shorted PCB"? If this is true, then Steve has never seen a single case of a shorted 12V TVS diode on its own.

Yet we have this statement:

"Yes, if the MyBook Elements was overvolted by a bad/wrong power brick, it would cause the 12V diode to go out, I've also seen that before."

Was the preamp in the Elements also damaged, Steve? If so, I can show you heaps of Internet threads where it wasn't.

During my time in various forums over the past 10 years, I have helped hundreds of people with their shorted TVS diodes. In more than 95% of cases the problems were confined to the diodes and the associated fuses and resistors. The case study in your video is typical of what one would expect if a WD external drive were overvolted with a 19V laptop adapter. In such cases the 12V TVS diode goes short circuit, and the resistor remains intact (because the adapter's current limit is not sufficient to blast it open). In desktop scenarios the same resistor usually goes open, and the SMOOTH chip is often burnt. The 5V current trace in your video remained quiet, probably because the SMOOTH chip was not functioning (due to a missing 12V supply). If, as you subsequently claim, the 5V TVS diode was also shorted, then its associated resistor must have been open. This in turn means that the preamp and the SMOOTH IC must have been overvolted, so one would reasonably expect to see visible burn marks on the motor controller. However, I could see no such marks.

Catastrophic failures in Western Digital PCBs:

http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1119

Instead you expect us to believe that both diodes were shorted. If this were the case, then you should have been up front about it. I personally cannot recall a single thread in any forum in the past 10 years where such a scenario has occurred. That is not to say that it isn't possible, but it would be a lot easier to accept if it were not an afterthought.

When asked why you didn't try to read the ROM, you said ...

"The PCB had a short underneath D3 which I relieved. There was no way for me to read the ROM without relieving the short.  I didn't mention this in the video, but the board was pulling near 2A alone, with no HDA connected. You DR folks all jumped to conclusions about how it cannot be the preamp! This is why I am agitated."

So you had a seriously damaged PCB, with two shorted diodes? But there was no overload in PC3K's 5V current trace, so when exactly did you relieve the short at D3? 

[Desert Data Recovery]

Well there us a lot to unpack here. Steve you have joined at a good time to add your input. 

Don has changed the direction of this thread to who has the best videos and business model.  There seems to be 3 types of videos. 

Don's are pretty much all self promotion. Put a DriveSavers label on it and you can't tell the difference. Both of Don's videos had about 120 combined views. 

Erkin's video which are true data recovery instructional videos. Last one I viewed had about 10,000 views. 

Steve's two videos had over 1m views........ So who has the best business model and the ability to reach and influence clients....

Also Don, we are all business people. I guess you consider yourself the Loius Vitton of data recovery, whereas Brian is more of your Walmart. There is lots of room for everyone and personally I think the different price points serves clients well. Don I know for a fact that Brian runs a VERY successful business, maybe you could learn something from him :-)

Tim

Desert Data Recovery 

www.desertdatarecovery.com

t...@desertdatarecovery.com 

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[compos mentis]

This is what I wrote to Steve on May 21:

"In fact I am extremely surprised by your claim that both diodes were shorted. In 10 years of watching the DR forums, both pro and amateur, I don't recall ever seeing both diodes fail. In any case, if the 12V diode were shorted, then this is what happens when a My Book or Elements is overvolted. The resistor survives because the 2A/3A adapter's current limit is not sufficiently high to kill it. Had this happened inside a PC, then the resistor would probably have blown open, and the overvoltage would then have damaged the motor controller, as explained in the following tutorial.

Catastrophic failures in Western Digital PCBs:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1119

Might I suggest that Louis has a rant about WD's shitty "protection" in one of his videos? In fact it would have been far better to illustrate the point made in your video with one of the examples in my thread, specifically the one involving damage to the 5V TVS diode (and the SMOOTH chip). In such cases there is a very high likelihood of preamp damage, and you would have been justified in warning your viewers of this possibility. As it stands, your video has damaged your reputation, at least in the eyes of the pro DR community."

[Desert Data Recovery]

I think your comments do you proud Mr Anderson. 

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 3:18 PM MrAnderson <drago...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nah, Tim.  I saw your setup, you win for Walmart.  Get a life Tim, such a little man.

Anyway, this forum is what it is and everyone has their own opinions.  

The only thing I learned from Brian I posted here 

https://tristatedata.com/flat-rate-data-recovery-lure/

You want to keep going little man?  I don't, I have things to do.

Ciao,

Don Anderson

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/22afb191-19c1-4757-a688-063634fd595fo%40googlegroups.com.

[jpv...@gmail.com]

xactly what I was thinking

__________________________________
Sent from eM Client | www.emclient.com

------ Original Message ------

From: "Desert Data Recovery" <t...@desertdatarecovery.com>

To: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com

Sent: 6/28/2020 12:46:00 AM

Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/CAOasWzsKhXFDcPs%2BzgDRew0mjYjrSe9ou8%2ByxYKZdr0ZdYBr3A%40mail.gmail.com.

[Desert Data Recovery]

When people are incapable of reasoned arguement, they revert to insults. It is Mr Anderson's go to. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/em4eba80d4-4999-4360-8f80-6aa76f4f73f0%40alien.

[compos mentis]

I enjoy Erkin's videos. Lots of good stuff there. I share the same opinion about Tristate, though. No instruction, just pure self promotion.

[jpv...@gmail.com]

That, and an ego the size of a football field doesn't help either

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/CAOasWzuJ5o3pMKnY7ZmTh4%2B%2BT14YHAEZvBkt-mKxEet_K-toNg%40mail.gmail.com.

[compos mentis]

MrAnderson doesn't like to share, so one wonders what he is even doing here:

https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25585&p=280517#p280517

[DiskTuna]

Who are you again?

[DiskTuna]

Who?

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 2:42:49 AM UTC+2, MrAnderson wrote:

The one that makes a fortune with a freeware software carver?

Campos, get off your lazy ass and travel to learn.   You need to be able to afford to be in this industry.

Sorry,  can't help you there. 

Stay well and safe.  Most of all, claim your cities back and stop letting the ads win, stop letting the middle men control you.  If, in fact, you are a legitimate company.   Stop praising the people that are stealing your business in your local economies. 

There's free knowledge for you campos.

Don Anderson 

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------

From: DiskTuna <jpv...@gmail.com>

Date: 6/27/20 8:12 PM (GMT-05:00)

To: DataRecoveryCertification <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

Who are you again?

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 8:28:20 PM UTC+2, MrAnderson wrote:

Everyone has different opinions in this industry.  I've seen a few of HDD Recovery Services videos and I think he's intelligent.  The best videos, no.

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[Desert Data Recovery]

LOL. I love drunk/stoned replies on a Saturday night. 

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 5:42 PM dragonink80 <drago...@gmail.com> wrote:

The one that makes a fortune with a freeware software carver?

Campos, get off your lazy ass and travel to learn.   You need to be able to afford to be in this industry.

Sorry,  can't help you there. 

Stay well and safe.  Most of all, claim your cities back and stop letting the ads win, stop letting the middle men control you.  If, in fact, you are a legitimate company.   Stop praising the people that are stealing your business in your local economies. 

There's free knowledge for you campos.

Don Anderson 

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------

From: DiskTuna <jpv...@gmail.com>

Date: 6/27/20 8:12 PM (GMT-05:00)

To: DataRecoveryCertification <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

Who are you again?

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 8:28:20 PM UTC+2, MrAnderson wrote:

Everyone has different opinions in this industry.  I've seen a few of HDD Recovery Services videos and I think he's intelligent.  The best videos, no.

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[compos mentis]

Are you perhaps referring to me, MrAnderson?

FYI, I did my travelling many decades ago and I learned plenty. My body of work is all over the Internet. You, OTOH, have nothing to show us except a lot of bluster and chest beating.

Here are my first two data recovery cases in the late 1980s:

Recovering a ComputerVision CGOS200X file system:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=1203

Both cases took less than a day. I had to reverse engineer a proprietary file system and then rebuild damaged metadata and directory structures. I had no tools other than the rudimentary disc editor that shipped with the OS (less powerful than DOS Debug). I had no prior knowledge of file systems, and had never used a disc editor before. I wrote my own disc scanning routine in 30 words of Data General machine language, using only a field engineer's reference card and the disc controller manual. I am not a programmer.

So you see, MrAnderson, I don't need to be lectured by you on the subject of data recovery. I was recovering data before I even knew there was a name for it. Hell, I might even be a pioneer.

BTW, you seem to think travel is important. I lived and worked in Asia for 3 years, in a technical role, in Japan, Korea and Singapore. I operated my own computer maintenance business, servicing minicomputer and mainframe computers and peripherals to chip level, on site.

The type of equipment that I maintained can be seen here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/

During those years I did things that you now take for granted. For example, during the late 1980s I hot swapped a disc pack to recover a critical file system sector. I had never heard of hot swapping before. In the early 1990s (?) I hot swapped a magnetic tape drive to recover a tape with a damaged leader. I still haven't heard of anyone doing the same. I wrote my own head alignment utility in 30 words of DG machine language. In those days HDDs had a separate servo head, and all R/W heads had to be aligned to it. This tool saved me the cost of a disc exerciser (US$10K) and CE pack (US$1K).

Am I boring you, MrAnderson?

[compos mentis]

I should add that the data I recovered was for a building project (skyscraper) and was worth millions. I charged NOTHING. The customer had a hardware maintenance contract which did not include data recovery, but I did for free anyway.

[DiskTuna]

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 7:51:56 AM UTC+2, compos mentis wrote:

Are you perhaps referring to me, MrAnderson?

FYI, I did my travelling many decades ago and I learned plenty. My body of work is all over the Internet. You, OTOH, have nothing to show us except a lot of bluster and chest beating.

That and that place of his that looks like a hair/nail salon 

[DiskTuna]

That's it.  Why am I here?  

Because you're going to change the industry, single handed, with your delusions of grandeur? A year ago you were working on a game changing master piece.

[Desert Data Recovery]

Compos, you know me better than that. I was referring to Donny. Besides it was morning your time. 

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 3:07 AM DiskTuna <jpv...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's it.  Why am I here?  

Because you're going to change the industry, single handed, with your delusions of grandeur? A year ago you were working on a game changing master piece.

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[jpv...@gmail.com]

"I get spammed in this email from the forum"

You're aware you can turn this off?

__________________________________
Sent from eM Client | www.emclient.com

------ Original Message ------

From: "MrAnderson" <drago...@gmail.com>

To: "DataRecoveryCertification" <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: 6/28/2020 8:46:32 AM

Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

This is such a forum for amatuers.  I don't know you from a hole in the wall Compos.  You sound retired and if that's the case keep up your education through forums old timer.

Tim is a small nobody who cries for help like a coward.

That's it.  Why am I here?  I paid for the online course 9 years ago and that was supposed to be part of the membership.  I get spammed in this email from the forum and I browse through to find something that I'd like to point out flaws in.

What's your company Compos?  I'd like to see what you've accomplished in 100 years.

Don Anderson 

TriStateData.com

p.s.  If I need to talk the the whole time that I'm shooting a clip because you have no idea what's going on then you have no business opening a drive.

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[jpv...@gmail.com]

"You have no idea who I am"

Same.

"Yes, tuna man I'm going to unsubscribe.  You are one of the most annoying people that I've ever come across.  Don't get on my bad side."

lol

Don't blame me for your asshole behavior.

__________________________________
Sent from eM Client | www.emclient.com

------ Original Message ------

From: "MrAnderson" <drago...@gmail.com>

To: "DataRecoveryCertification" <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: 6/28/2020 5:46:45 PM

Subject: Re: Re[2]: Am I missing something here??

"Hi, my name is Joep van Steen and I live in the Netherlands, Europe. I am 48 years old, have one daughter, and a Bulgarian rescue dog. "

You just appeared out of nowhere a year ago.

You have no idea who I am.

Yes, tuna man I'm going to unsubscribe.  You are one of the most annoying people that I've ever come across.  Don't get on my bad side.

Any of you.

Don Anderson

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[Desert Data Recovery]

Scott. Time to delete this post I think. Mr Anderson appears to be threatening people now....and we are all shaking in our boots. 

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 8:46 AM MrAnderson <drago...@gmail.com> wrote:

"Hi, my name is Joep van Steen and I live in the Netherlands, Europe. I am 48 years old, have one daughter, and a Bulgarian rescue dog. "

You just appeared out of nowhere a year ago.

You have no idea who I am.

Yes, tuna man I'm going to unsubscribe.  You are one of the most annoying people that I've ever come across.  Don't get on my bad side.

Any of you.

Don Anderson

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 9:13:36 AM UTC-4, DiskTuna wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/e3578255-8fd3-4f1a-934c-a36a58b27d2fo%40googlegroups.com.

[Steve]

Is this some kind of joke? 

You post a video that is 2 minutes and 53 seconds long, with you doing nothing but removing platters and calling it done? You don't even show how you inspected it.  

You then post another video that is 3 minutes 23 seconds long, with you just moving the HSA to the patient? And you say that's all that is needed? Where is the PC3K work?

Is this a joke? It has to be.  These videos are about as useless as could be. 

Show the entire process, I dare you.  Heck, you can even go live and do it, that way we all get to see how bad you really are :)

What I've learned in my lifetime is that people who hide behind the word "professional" are anything but.  You really are going above and beyond to make your place look like a trendy hair salon, just stop. 

Perhaps you should try being polite and considerate to other people in this group.  Do you always behave like this online? Or are you like this in person as well? I am genuinely curious.  

You are as toxic as can be.  Why are you so mean? Did someone hurt you? I can help you with some counseling. 

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 1:10:15 PM UTC-4, MrAnderson wrote:

Hi Jim,

Here is what professional data recovery looks like on a Seagate Rosewood.

Compare it with everyone elses.  This is how long it should take...

https://youtu.be/Qd7tk25Mygo

https://youtu.be/7Mp5M03iB18

Nobody is hating, just trying to fix the industry that's been damaged throughout the years.  Just think about it.

To the untrained eye, those videos look super interesting from Rossman.  To the trained eye, it's Howard Stern attempting data recovery.

Thank you,

Don Anderson

TriStateData.com

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 12:55:51 PM UTC-4, Networks wrote:

Why doesnt someone else make a video that meets their standards and share it. No need to keep hating on our new member.

Jim

On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:15 PM, MrAnderson <drago...@gmail.com> wrote:



I think that the point to be made here is that if that was actually a clients hard drive you were working on while yabbing away and "stumbling" is not professional data recovery by any means.  The videos that are being made by your company is only hurting your reputation in the industry.  You should focus and concentrate while working on client drives, not exploit sloppy work that will encourage others to do the same.  Especially with your large following.  This is how I feel.

Don Anderson

TriStateData.com

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 1:59:42 AM UTC-4, Steve wrote:

Hi Tim and All,

Thanks for the welcome! I originally intended to post a response in this thread sooner, but things got out of hand here in NYC. 

The drive was recovered in full. I actually started an experiment with these WD Green drives vs the Black series, using our power supply at the shop to recreate PSU surges. I will probably post a video of it sometime, but out of the two that I quickly tested, the Motor IC on the WD Green blew instantly and killed the heads (I think I sent 12V @ 4A to the 5V rail), whereas on the WD Black it survived (diode blew up)! As you know, these WD Greens are simply terrible when it comes to overvoltage/surges. 

The video I made was simply for beginners, yes. I actually did mention that the original PCB was scorched, even showed what the drive does with a new PCB. The video was long, so I get it.  The power monitor was just a feature of PC3000 that I wanted to showcase. It helps to quickly identify what the issue is, even without removing the PCB. I know how to use a multimeter, I know how to find shorts, etc. It's not that difficult, just time consuming. 

We had a lot of requests from people to post the recovery process, so I did just that. Very few edits (cut outs of when I had to help others at the shop). I even left the stumbling bits in there, because that shows the actual recovery process. We all stumble sometimes, and go down the wrong troubleshooting path, etc.  

I admit, I did get agitated at the responses originally made in this thread.  It's all good though, I saw where you guys were coming from and left it at that.  

Hope everyone is staying safe.

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 5:43:06 PM UTC-4, Tim - Desert Data Recovery wrote:

I believe Steve is a member of the group and we should welcome him.

We did perhaps jump to conclusions as we saw the video from a pro data recovery standpoint.

Had we have known about scorch marks on the PCB our opinions would have been different.

As Steve was not making a video for us, but for the public, then omitting that info was not a problem to him.

Steve, there are a lot of contributors to this forum from various fields, not necessarily from data recovery.

We value all opinions.

Hope you can contribute.

 

Tim Homer - Lead Engineer

Desert Data Recovery

t...@desertdatarecovery.com

www.desertdatarecovery.com

 

From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of compos mentis
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:22 PM
To: DataRecoveryCertification <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

 

By all means, send your Apple stuff to Rossman. For data recovery, go somewhere else.

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[compos mentis]

MrAnderson, all you need to know about me is in my very public body of work. Unlike you, I share my knowledge and experience instead of taking it to my grave.

As for Tim, he's a nice guy. You are not. Tim understands PR. You do not. Tim's only visible "failing" is that he is too diplomatic.

[compos mentis]

Tim, it appears that you've incorrectly attributed some negative (?) comment to me???

[compos mentis]

Don, chill out. Can't you see that you are hurting nobody other than yourself? You need to have the mindset that everything you do and say is visible to potential clients (and to the police).

My attitude is that everybody knows something that I don't know. A little humility goes a long way. 

People will always have differing opinions. One measure of a man is in the way that he deals with criticism. Ad hominem rants are not the way to go about it. Attack the argument, not the man.

On Monday, June 29, 2020 at 5:37:09 AM UTC+10, MrAnderson wrote:

Go ahead and try to sabotage me with anything.  I’ll return it 10 fold Rossman.

I’m already in NYC.

 

Don Anderson

Tri-State Data Recovery.

[Desert Data Recovery]

Compos. The format of this forum can be confusing (emails, some with responses attached. some not). If it is, the comment below that was not from me. If you are referring to something else, then of course I apologize if I incorrectly attributed something in what can officially be called War and Peace revisited. 

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[compos mentis]

Rossman has the potential to be a big player in data recovery, especially now that storage is transitioning away from mechanical drives to solid state. Unfortunately Rossman is currently dependent on his employees who essentially have zero knowledge of electronics. Their experience with HDDs is totally useless when it comes to SSDs. I can see a time when Rossman himself will get involved, and that's when his DR business will take off. When SSDs eventually do take over, the DR battlefield will be littered with ROM jockeys and headswap mechanics who never learned anything else.

On Monday, June 29, 2020 at 5:37:09 AM UTC+10, MrAnderson wrote:

Nah your firm is the joke of Data Recovery. 

I’ll see you in NYC when I establish the company there and take down your “talk show” data recovery business.

[drago...@gmail.com]

I’m familiar in court and dealing with lawyers.  

I know what I say.

This industry is already destroyed from people like him.  They have no training or education, yet they are filming client drives stating “everyone fumbles”.  I’m sorry, if everyone fumbles then you will have some very upset clients to deal with.

 

Of course this business is professional you fool.  Important data should never be in the hands of Rossman group.

 

I don’t believe that Seagate rosewood drive that rossman worked on for two hours was real.  I’ve recovered hundreds of these and never had to replace heads twice because I chose the wrong donor.  The heads also don’t fail by themselves.  It was staged, sloppy, and entertaining for his audience, but bad for the industry.

 

I just can’t believe I’m the only one that can see what’s going on in this industry.  I know you people are smart.

 

Don Anderson

 

From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of compos mentis
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:31 PM
To: DataRecoveryCertification <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

 

Rossman has the potential to be a big player in data recovery, especially now that storage is transitioning away from mechanical drives to solid state. Unfortunately Rossman is currently dependent on his employees who essentially have zero knowledge of electronics. Their experience with HDDs is totally useless when it comes to SSDs. I can see a time when Rossman himself will get involved, and that's when his DR business will take off. When SSDs eventually do take over, the DR battlefield will be littered with ROM jockeys and headswap mechanics who never learned anything else.

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[compos mentis]

This is what is wrong with the industry:

"I paid for the online course 9 years ago ..."

Essentially anyone can get started in data recovery simply by hanging a DR shingle above their business premises.There are no prerequisites, they don't need to do any course, and there are no real accreditations, at least none that are recognised by anyone other than their issuer. My emailbox is full of communications with people who shouldn't be allowed within a bull's roar of anyone's data.

[Steve]

You know, I normally ignore people like you. But I'll bite in this case.

I think at this point you just want attention.

If you're as good as you say you are, why not post videos proving that? Do it with no edits, let's see how that goes. You're telling me you've never NOT forgot to change back to terminal from indirect mode? Because this is the fumbling I'm talking about. You basically saw my work from start to finish. Literally. 

You're seriously saying I faked that recovery, lol. I don't know what to tell you there. 

Also, did you seriously say you've never seen a rosewood that needed multiple swaps? And that they never fail after a swap? Do you see what I'm saying now? You have no idea what you're talking about. It's sad really. 

Stop being rude to everyone, you're probably like this elsewhere.  Do you not understand how big of a jerk you look?

You also said you're leaving this group, why are you still here? 

To the others in this group, I am sorry you have to witness this. I didn't want to respond to him, but he's really going out of his way to cause a stir. This will be my last message in regards to this. 

[Steve]

Franc, I expected better of you. 

What gives you the right to claim that all our employees who do data recovery have zero knowledge in electronics? You're basing this on a single video?  You can critique my work.  You are welcome to make a point that I didn't check the diodes in the video, but you have no right to claim that our technicians have zero knowledge in electronics, and that we are "useless" when it comes to SSDs.  

We've recovered hundreds of SSDs, HDDs, and numerous other devices.  I don't brag about what I can do on the forums, nor do I need you to vouch for us.  Our clients speak for us.  I'm not here to prove myself or brag about what we can do. But I will fiercely defend our reputation when it's under attack. 

Between Chris, Paul, and several other technicians we have, I'd say they're the best in their fields.  Chris it the one that does component level SSD repair, and he's the best of the best when it comes to that.  Please stop this nonsensical attack.  

This will be my last response in this thread. I think it's time to move on. 

Wish you gentlemen well!

[jpv...@gmail.com]

FYI, my carver isn't freeware and it's based on cases that existing software didn't solve, including R-Studio, UFS Explorer and whatnot. It does not make me a fortune but brings in money, yes. So do my other tools. Tools that I made myself, and that allow me to deliver a service very few others do and that people are willing to pay for:

https://www.disktuna.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/exzample.jpg

And no I did not appear out of nowhere all of a sudden a year ago, I started making disk recovery related tools before 2000. Maybe not up to your professional standards, but I sold thousands of copies of my tool called DiskPatch. So from my perspective you are the noob with an ego the size of a football field.

The thing I really get from what I do is fun and satisfaction. If I make enough to pay the bills, then I'm happy.

I'm in this group because I was invited.

Me being annoying is a compliment, coming from you.

You're nothing unique. You deliver services many others do, taught and using tools made, by others.

You try to sound like a man of the world, yet you kick around like a little hurt child. He's stupid and he's weak and he's an amateur! You totally lack capability of self reflection. It's quite sad, really.

__________________________________
Sent from eM Client | www.emclient.com

------ Original Message ------

From: "dragonink80" <drago...@gmail.com>

To: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com

Sent: 6/28/2020 2:42:45 AM

Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

The one that makes a fortune with a freeware software carver?

Campos, get off your lazy ass and travel to learn.   You need to be able to afford to be in this industry.

Sorry,  can't help you there. 

Stay well and safe.  Most of all, claim your cities back and stop letting the ads win, stop letting the middle men control you.  If, in fact, you are a legitimate company.   Stop praising the people that are stealing your business in your local economies. 

There's free knowledge for you campos.

Don Anderson 

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------

From: DiskTuna <jpv...@gmail.com>

Date: 6/27/20 8:12 PM (GMT-05:00)

To: DataRecoveryCertification <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: Am I missing something here??

Who are you again?

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 8:28:20 PM UTC+2, MrAnderson wrote:

Everyone has different opinions in this industry.  I've seen a few of HDD Recovery Services videos and I think he's intelligent.  The best videos, no.

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[Luke Coughey]

I think we  (data recovery specialists) all used media tools pro before DeepSpar came on the scene.  I certainly remember when I first started using Media Tools and thinking how awesome it was, compared to the cloning app we were using before that.

I suspect that most of the guys here didn't even start into data recovery for another decade after that.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/em4fdfd89e-82ab-4306-ad9d-ad101c74bb6e%40alien.

[Desert Data Recovery]

I think that's the 6th time Don has said I am done here. Yet still you return. For the weakest man you have ever met, I do seem to get under your skin for some reason. Long may it continue. 

As I said earlier, Scott time to take this down. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/CAM_TZbHeuGeqaB7iR0YFGCLuX3%3DSc%2BT%3DN1SruC6B5wM5LjLWsw%40mail.gmail.com.

[IT LAND]

I just finished a whole pack of popcorn on this post :-) lol

Don, wow, so rude to everyone, you surely outdid yourself - i guess you never heard the word humility - can take you a long way, but what do we all know anyway. I think HDDGURU is more your vibe anyway.

And welcome Steve, don't let this post put you down, its mostly a good group of helpful people, Tim, Wayne, Brian, Compos, Luke and everyone here are top guys and always willing to help.

[Desert Data Recovery]

Don. There are many ways of running a business. Yours is very confrontational. It's your way or the highway. I have been self employed for 30 years and have a diffetent viewpoint. 

The last business I owned was a catalog (printed media) based operation. Our main competitor was purely online. While we were fighting for the same market share and were competitors. However we had lunch once a month and talked about the challenges that faced the industry.

Four years later, because we both treated each other with respect, they purchase my company for 1m British pounds (at that time $1.7m). I of course accepted.

https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/lastminutecom-acquires-exhilaration-1m-shares/164445

While the term 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer' is an overused term, your best option to conquer NYC is to partner with a company who has 1m views on YouTube rather than 120.

Your view of expanding your business is myopic at best. While you may not agree with the Rosmann way of working, ignoring it is suicide for you business model.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/c013c61d-8c3c-41ca-8a97-875f92323972n%40googlegroups.com.

[Jim Wells]

Everyone,

The only way to kill this thread without Scott is to stop responding to it. Same goes for any member that is rude just don't respond to their posts to give them any fuel. Don't respond to this post just end it today and let it die on its own.

Everyone be safe

Jim

Thank you,

Jim Wells

CyberTech LLC

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/CAOasWztMHvFcdGHbfpTVAHfERMZ96sTesmMjBUh4J2V%3Dh7_vwg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Alandata Recovery]

dont kill this thread

There is a lot of interesting viewpoints - some is harsh.

I may not like what you say (or how you say it)

but I defend your right to say it.

We should look for possible truths in the criticisms, learn from it.

compos: I programmed nova computers too. I wrote drivers in nova assembler for the IRIS os from point 4.... long long ago...

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/CABmdQmD9438-Kk522SzL1FeyC-xiwh79ax79B%2BEwkr6yYNG6Bg%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Alandata Data Recovery -  (949)287-3282  
"Cleanroom Data Recovery of RAID, VMware, NAS, Linux, Tape, Disk, Forensics"

www.alandata.com   www.alandataRecovery.com

[MrAnderson]

Finally someone that makes sense.  Thank you Alan.

The truth hurts sometimes and people don't like to hear it.  

Tim, what's suicide for my business model.  I pride my business model above everything else.

My target isn't YOUTUBE.  I only made that video so it could be compared to the computer techs work.  Should I spend another five minutes and finish the case?  Why?

Trust me, if I want a video to spread, I know SEO.

I'm not trying to train people right now, just make people aware of how important it is to find a quality lab and stop outsourcing using computer shops that advertise a service that they can't provide.

That's it.  You can all hate me if you want.  Doesn't matter, it's already working in my city.

Stand up for yourselves and stop letting nobodies saturate the industry.

Don Anderson

TriStateData.com

[jpv...@gmail.com]

"The truth hurts sometimes and people don't like to hear it.  "

I like how you try to spin this and come about the reasonable one in this conversation. You fool no one.

[compos mentis]

Videos appear to be the way that the Rossman group has chosen to showcase its capabilities, so one would expect that they would be professional and knowledgeable. However, your video is an embarrassing deviation from Rossman's usual high standard. You took what was essentially a simple, zero cost DIY Diode Removal and beat it up into an expensive Data Recovery. The idea that a shorted 12V TVS diode is indicative of preamp failure is absurd, and I'm being kind. Anyone who has been involved in data recovery for more than a week will understand what to do when they encounter a shorted TVS diode. Scott's course devotes two pages to electronics, with a primary focus on the subject of TVS diodes ("TVS resistors"), so it is clear that it is a well known phenomenon.

In fact over the past 10 years I would have helped at least one end user per week, probably more like 2 or 3, so that's 500 or more cases. And I'm not even involved in DR, I'm just an interested observer. In fact the cases were so frequent that I wrote a TVS diode FAQ:

http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=86

My tutorial is targeted at people who have no prior knowledge of electronics, who have never used a multimeter, who have never repaired any electronic device, and who have no idea which end of an iron is hot. I hope you find it instructive.

Here is a recent case where a user overvolted the 5V input of his WD drive:

https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40040

The 5V TVS diode was damaged, so there was genuine concern that his preamp may have been damaged as well. That's because the preamp is powered from the 5V rail, not 12V. However, the protection diode did its job and the user recovered his data at no cost, except perhaps the price of a DMM (which can be had for as low as US$3). He didn't need a PC$10K short circuit tester or a thermal imaging camera. Please, don't for one minute think that anybody is impressed by this, at least not anyone who understands the subject.

In your video you did nothing to prove that the preamp was damaged, you simply assumed that it was. Moreover, when your mistakes were pointed out, you produced a raft of excuses. Each objection was countered with a new excuse. You forgot to mention this, you forgot to mention that, etc, etc. In amongst all that verbiage you ended up contradicting yourself, so one has to wonder just which, if any, of your explanations can be believed.

As for your DR colleagues, one wonders why none of them pointed out your blatant errors before they ended up in the public arena. If they understood anything about electronics, your errors would have been corrected ...

The sad thing is that the DR business is the definitive example of the Dunning Kruger Effect. As Dirty Harry says, "a man's gotta know his limitations". I suggest that you pick up a book on the subject, and try to get it right next time.

My final advice to you, Steve, is that whenever I have a brain fart, and I've had plenty, I find that it's best to just acknowledge it and move on. If you try to defend it, the smell lingers for a lot longer.

@Alandata, the only programming I ever did in DG Nova/Eclipse machine language amounted to small utilities that fit in about 30 words of code, and that's because I had to key them into memory by hand every time. I have written quite a few tools at the HDD Oracle, but I think it's obvious that my coding is lousy and that I'm not a programmer (real programmers don't use FreeBasic).

[compos mentis]

Attached are the current profiles from an ST973401:

https://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/scsi/savvio_pm.pdf

The peaks during normal startup do exceed 2.5A on the 12V rail.

[Alandata Recovery]

compos what tool did you use to get these graphs.

I dont have that fancy power meter option on my ppc3k

but is it something you can do with a raspberry pi or arduino.. ?

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[Steve]

Ok, Franc, let's play ball. 

Did you really link me to a graph of a completely different SAS drive that runs at 10K RPM and say it spikes over 2.5A?!?  This has to be a joke.  

The drive I had is a WD Green that is 5400RPM! Go back and watch the videos again, you will see that I try another PCB on the patient drive. It behaved exactly the same way.  Also pay attention to what the 5V rail was doing. Now please tell me, how do you explain this? Don't ignore this question. 

I know that the 12V rail is for the motor. The point I was trying to make is that whenever you see a ~2.5A pull (or more) on the 12V rail, the preamp is likely shot. I know that doesn't make sense to you, but on this drive I've seen it several times (mentioned this to you in private).  This is likely due to a PSU surge. 

You've never used power monitor for any drive, have you? Let me guess, you don't need to. 

You were wrong from the start. Check the attached picture.  You say there was no short and that I don't know what I'm talking about, so tell me, what is this under the 5V Diode, Franc? Yeah, that's a hole that I had to drill to relieve the short that I found via thermal cam (which you were also upset that I used). Above, you say this: "You took what was essentially a simple, zero cost DIY Diode Removal and beat it up into an expensive Data Recovery". A simple, zero cost diode removal, eh? 

I won't say exactly how much I actually charged the client for this, but i'll give you a hint, it's close to the number of times you've seen a 2.5A pull on the 12V rail by a WD Green (no, I am not kidding).

You say this about the link you provided: "The 5V TVS diode was damaged, so there was genuine concern that his preamp may have been damaged as well" 

Oh yeah, my 5V diode wasn't damaged at all. It just had a short underneath! 

I told you all of this in private, but you want to make this public, so let's do that.  I actually ignored you several times above, hoping you would stop, but you didn't. 

You were out to make us look bad from the start, you know how I know that? Read my message from one of the emails I sent to you below: 

Hi Franc,

It's Steve again.  I saw the post you made on this group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/datarecoverycertification

Your response (today) of:

​

"I was trying to be helpful by alerting you, in private, to bad practices

and to a potentially damaging promotional video. If you prefer, I can

always redirect my "insulting spam" to data recovery forums instead" 

​

Is now literally thrown out the window, because, as you know, you made that post ("I would never let this guy touch my drive"...) yesterday.

So, not only did you lie and say you were trying to tell us this in private, but you had already gone and bashed our name in a public forum, a full day before you even "alerted" us! What do you say to this?  

As I told you in private, I respect your knowledge, but you don't know everything, nor have you seen everything. I don't care how many cases of a bad 12V TVS Diode you've seen.  The only correction I should make is that in the video I said "this is usually caused by a power surge/incorrect power supply" or something along that line. This is mostly caused by a bad PC PSU or something similar.  You've likely seen very few WD Greens.  

None of this matters though, as the data was recovered in full. The client was happy, but you are upset -- something I could now care less about. 

I am working on making a video showcasing the different PCB damage on these WD Greens. Will finish it when I have some spare time. 

My final advice to you, Franc, is that whenever I have a brain fart, and I've had plenty, I find that it's best to just acknowledge it and move on. If you try to defend it, the smell lingers for a lot longer.

The irony is strong here. 

Have a good one!  

[Scott Moulton]

Man,  I went out of town for three days and come back and see this.... really guys. Listen I’m all for free speech and I’m not your mama but I don’t agree with attacking a person and their character. This isn’t the point of this forum, but I’m not gonna kill this for the moment. I’m just gonna say if you aren’t going to be friendly, and help with a positive attitude then this isn’t the place for you and you can voluntarily leave. There is plenty of crap in the world and even I’ve taken My share. This isn’t the place for it.

Thank you,

 

----------------------------------------------------------

Scott A. Moulton / CCFS CCFT CDRP DREC CDRE

Certified Computer Forensic Specialist

Certified Computer Forensic Technician

Certified Data Recovery Professional

Certified Data Recovery Expert

Data Recovery Expert Certification Instructor

http://www.myharddrivedied.com/data-recovery-training

----------------------------------------------------------

My Hard Drive Died & Forensic Strategy Services

----------------------------------------------------------

601b Industrial Court, Woodstock, Ga 30189

Phone: 770-926-5588

Web: www.MyHardDriveDied.com

Web: www.ForensicStrategy.com

----------------------------------------------------------

On Jun 29, 2020, at 11:08 AM, Jim Wells <netw...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/datarecoverycertification/CABmdQmD9438-Kk522SzL1FeyC-xiwh79ax79B%2BEwkr6yYNG6Bg%40mail.gmail.com.

[giftedte...@gmail.com]

[compos mentis]

I intentionally omitted a comment because I didn't know what to make of this example. I had already misinterpreted the current profiles in your video, so I didn't want to make that mistake again. I'm not disputing that your video shows a shorted 12V supply -- obviously it does. The behaviour is consistent with a load switch where the current limit has been set at 2.5A, as is confirmed by reference to its datasheet.

I'm wondering how your tool would deal with a working drive which has a genuine current demand that exceeds the tool's current limit. Perhaps people have been surprised by such a scenario in the past and have not been able to account for it??

As for your excuses, I have no more time for them. Your original video says it all. Everything else is just damage control. 

On the subject of private conversations, I only went public so that people could see the real story. It's very strange how each of your excuses seems to follow from each of my objections, don't you think? Coincidence?

BTW, you really should ask Louis to take you under his wing and teach you how to use an iron. I see you've also been doing some homework. Keep it up. Your customers will thank you for it.

Finally, it's true, I will never personally experience the buzz that you get from hammering a shorted diode with a $10K short circuit tester, but I already have the knowledge to understand how it works and how to make it work better. That's called experience.

[compos mentis]

Seagate publishes these current profiles in some of its product manuals, usually for the enterprise models. I'm thinking that there may be occasions where a working drive's current demand may exceed PC3K's current limit.