48 pin scsi apple powerbook

[Alandata Recovery]

I have an apple powerbook

it has a scsi drive with a 48 pin scsi sonnector.

I got the adapter

the drives light comes on but the scsi card isnt seeing the drive.

Has anybody got a setup that works and can read this drive?

Thanks

Heres the adapter

Here is a discussion

https://superuser.com/questions/1527997/what-is-this-48-pin-laptop-hard-drive-connector

 

[t...@desertdatarecovery.com]

Are you sure it’s the card and not the drive thats bad?

 

Tim Homer - Lead Engineer

Desert Data Recovery

t...@desertdatarecovery.com

www.desertdatarecovery.com

 

From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Alandata Recovery
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2021 6:25 PM
To: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com
Subject: 48 pin scsi apple powerbook

 

I have an apple powerbook

it has a scsi drive with a 48 pin scsi sonnector.

I got the adapter

the drives light comes on but the scsi card isnt seeing the drive.

 

Has anybody got a setup that works and can read this drive?

 

Thanks

 

Heres the adapter

Here is a discussion

 

https://superuser.com/questions/1527997/what-is-this-48-pin-laptop-hard-drive-connector

 

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[wayne horner]

it could be the drive

it doesnt spin up

so I cant hear any bad sounds

Alandata Data Recovery -  (949)287-3282  
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[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

How do you set the SCSI ID?

ISTR that SCSI drives can be configured to start up on command rather than simply spinning up after power is applied. Could that be the problem?

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

It's of no real use, but here is a service manual for the old 200 series Powerbooks:

https://elektrotanya.com/apple_powerbook_200_series.pdf/download.html

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

http://vtda.org/books/Computing/Hardware/CSC%20Hard%20Drive%20Bible%20-%20Edition%208%20-%201996.pdf

J2 is shown on page 261. 

SCSI ID 0 corresponds to all pins open.

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

There appear to be two fuses -- F1 ("10K") at the top left corner, and F2 ("F38S") at top centre.

[Alandata Recovery]

Thanks !

I actually have an original copy of the hard drive Bible that I bought when it first came out

I found three zero ohm green fuses that are all fine 

when plugged in the red LED on the drive lights up but it doesn't attempt to spin up

I can't detect it with my adaptec 2940 card no matter what the settings I use

The three jumpers on the adapter card are used to set the scsi ID

I tried one two and four didn't matter

The led on the adapter doesnt light up - it might be for data transfer.

On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 7:07 PM pbzcbf...@gmail.com <pbzcbf...@gmail.com> wrote:

There appear to be two fuses -- F1 ("10K") at the top left corner, and F2 ("F38S") at top centre.

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[jol qwerr]

If the drive doesn't spin up then how will the SCSI card detect it ?

[jol qwerr]

According to the pdf that frank provided its 40-pin SCSI (not 48)

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

SATA/PATA drives that are configured for PUIS will still identify themselves, albeit with a reduced set of parameters. SCSI drives should be similar in this regard.

[Alandata Recovery]

Right

Drives can be configured not to spin up on power.

Imagine a 48 drive scsi raid on power would overload your power supply.

So scsi has the option to be commanded by the controller when to spin up.

You can also enable staggered spin up.

I think that works by each drive spins itself up according to it's scsi Id.

The drive will still if itself as being present.

 

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021, 12:53 PM pbzcbf...@gmail.com <pbzcbf...@gmail.com> wrote:

SATA/PATA drives that are configured for PUIS will still identify themselves, albeit with a reduced set of parameters. SCSI drives should be similar in this regard.

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[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

The "YK" component (top left corner) appears to be a PNP transistor which is configured as a load switch. I expect that it is under the control of the S80C196KW microcontroller.

http://www.marutsu.co.jp/contents/shop/marutsu/datasheet/2sb1115.pdf

I would measure the voltages at all 3 pins. That should tell us whether the power is getting through.

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

Here is an earlier thread:

https://groups.google.com/g/datarecoverycertification/c/Vz2GIJEagAo

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

Here is my hypothesis.

I suspect that the primary controller (U13) communicates with the SCSI host. When the host commands it to spin up the drive, U13 switches on the YK transistor. This transistor then provides +5V power to the rest of the electronics. The primary controller then commands the secondary controller, or motor controller, to spin up the motor.

If the transistor is not being switched on, then either U13 is faulty, or the connection to the host has a problem.

I could be wrong, though.

[jol qwerr]

@Frank do you know if this drive needs to be parked manually ?

[Alandata Recovery]

the scsi connector is 40 pin

then a 2 pin gap

and 6 pins for ID select and activity led

thats 48 pins

so the adapter card is described as '48 pin'

but yeah the scsi part is 40

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:25 AM jol qwerr <qjol...@gmail.com> wrote:

According to the pdf that frank provided its 40-pin SCSI (not 48)

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[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

Since the drive has a VCM, then it must autopark.

HA13490MP, Hitachi, voice coil motor driver, 15V, marking 13490, MP-18T:

https://www.semiee.com/file/EOL2/Hitachi-HA13490.pdf

[Alandata Recovery]

the 2 legs that are together both are 5v

the single pin is millivolts

measured with one probe on a screw

the other on each pin

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[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

If the transistor is on, then the voltages should be 5V, 5V, 4.4V (from left to right -- Emitter, Collector, Base).

If the transistor is off, then the voltages should be 5V, 0V, 5V..

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

The middle pin is connected to the metal tab. I don't know what you mean by " the 2 legs that are together". 

[Alandata Recovery]

2 pins on the same side are 5v

              0v

          5V      5V

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 5:09 PM pbzcbf...@gmail.com <pbzcbf...@gmail.com> wrote:

The middle pin is connected to the metal tab. I don't know what you mean by " the 2 legs that are together". 

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[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

That appears to be a fuse  (F1). I'm referring to the "YK" marked component below it.

[Alandata Recovery]

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021, 5:20 PM pbzcbf...@gmail.com <pbzcbf...@gmail.com> wrote:

That appears to be a fuse  (F1). I'm referring to the "YK" marked component below it.

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[Alandata Recovery]

5   1.5    5

     1.5

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 5:20 PM pbzcbf...@gmail.com <pbzcbf...@gmail.com> wrote:

That appears to be a fuse  (F1). I'm referring to the "YK" marked component below it.

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[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

The base pin is 5V, so Vbe = 0V. This means that the transistor is switched off. I expect that you will measure 1.5V at the Vcc pins of the other chips. This voltage is too low to power those chips (they require 5V). I would have expected to see 0V, so maybe the transistor is leaky, but that's not the real problem.

If there is an actual hardware fault, it must be at U13 or earlier in the chain. I would be looking at the SCSI HBA or the adapter PCB. The adapter appears to be a passive device (ie no electronics), so I can't see how there could be anything wrong there, assuming the pinout is correct. Maybe you could confirm that the SCSI ID pins are all at 5V (= open)?

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

U13 is a ROM-less uC, so perhaps the ROM (U1) needs to be checked ???

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

U13 has two serial ports. Perhaps one port is connected to the block of 8 pins ???

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

This is the cable that came with the Powerbooks (30-pin to 40-pin?):

https://old.pinouts.ru/HD/scsiexternalhdi30_pinout.shtml

If you have this cable, then I suppose you could work out the pinout at the 40-pin end. It looks like Apple didn't connect its adapter cable to those last 8 pins.

[Alandata Recovery]

nice find !

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[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

What's under the "4491" sticker? Is it a uPD2364?

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

I can't believe how hard it is to find the pinout of 40-pin SCSI.

This is the pinout for SCSI Internal (Single-ended):

https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/buses/scsi-internal-single-ended/

This is supposed to be the pinout for SCSI Internal (2.5 inch) 40 pin:

https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/buses/scsi-internal-25-inch-40-pin/

The "Pin" column appears to show the corresponding pin number for the 50-pin interface. However, +5V and RET (Ground) cannot both be connected to the same pin (1), unless the power is supplied via TMPWR (Termination Power) and the +5V pins are left open.

It might be worth tracing out the connections between the 40-pin and 50-pin interfaces to see how they match up with the table.

[Alandata Recovery]

On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 9:44 AM pbzcbf...@gmail.com <pbzcbf...@gmail.com> wrote:

What's under the "4491" sticker? Is it a uPD2364?

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[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

ISTM that the adapter's pinout is correct.

The ROM is a 32K x 8 part.

http://knm.org.uk/datasheets/M5M27C256AP.pdf

Unless there is an incompatibility with the SCSI HBA, I'd still be looking at U13 and its ROM. I guess spare PCBs would be rare for this model.

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

I'm not suggesting that you should do this, but I would be sorely tempted to short the collector and emitter pins of the "YK" transistor. This bypasses the power switch, and it may be enough to spin up the drive, provided that the electronics doesn't need a spin up signal from U13.

However, this would be disastrous if "YK" is not actually a power switch. You could convince yourself that it is in fact a power switch if you can measure continuity between the tab of "YB" and the Vcc pin of any of the other ICs.

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

These are the power pins for the known ICs. I would use the resistance range of your DMM to determine whether these pins connect to +5V (fuse F1, F38) or the tab of the "YK" transistor. This will tell us which, if any, of the ICs get their power via the transistor. If the tab of the transistor is indeed the source of power for these chips, then it should be perfectly safe to short the collector and emitter pins.

DG2301DL (marking E4)

• V+ - 5

DG2302DL (marking E5)

• V+ - 5

M5M27C256AVP

• Vcc - 28 (7th pin from top on left side)

TLC272CPSR

• Vdd - 8

HD153014RF

• DVcc - 16
• AVcc - 48

HM65256BLFP

• Vcc - 28

S80C196KW

• Vcc - 1

HA13490MP

• Vcc - 16

[Alandata Recovery]

Wow thanks

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[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

I would monitor pins 1, 2, 4 for serial port activity.

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

Here is the datasheet for several compatible IBM models (includes jumper definitions and interface pinout):

https://web.archive.org/web/20110216014931/http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/211DFEF9D06A894987256C63005EC016/$file/h2xsx.pdf

"Spin-Up

This power on mode is defined as the period of time from receipt of power at the drive assembly or receipt of Start SCSI command, to Idle mode (or "Ready" state)."

[Alandata Recovery]

The Adaptec scsi card

Has option to issue spin up to each I'd.

This is set

And still no spin

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[jol qwerr]

Quote: "The Adaptec scsi card" end quote

According to great stuff @Frank (AKA fzabkar) provided (thank you Frank), you might be using the wrong adapter

I would have tried to make my own adapter

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

The adapter looks OK to me. I'm wondering whether the HBA is configured for differential SCSI. The HDD interface appears to be single-ended SCSI-2.

[jol qwerr]

@Frank

Then it would need to have a terminator ?

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

From the manual ...

SIGNAL TERMINATION

The drive does not have termination nor pull up resistors for SCSI interface.

CABLING

The maximum cable length from the host system to the drive is limited to 6 inches with external 1K-ohm pull up resistors.

In case that appropriate termination resistors are externally equipped to the interface lines, the cable length can be extended. The maximum cable length depends on the condition of various electrical parameters of the interface. IBM will offer technical guidance on request basis.

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

1Kohm seems to be a strange value for a pull-up resistor.

https://www.datapro.net/techinfo/scsi_faq.html

Could we see a photo of the Adaptec HBA, particularly the area near the connector?

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

Here is a Quantum GoDrive with 1K terminator resistors at each end of the cable.

https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/hard-drives-hdd/quantum/GODRIVE-40-S-42MB-2-5-SSL-SCSI1-SE.html

[pbzcbf...@gmail.com]

AFAICT, the WD-2120 HDD is expecting a 1K pull-up on each of its 18 signal pins. This means that the SCSI signals switch between 0V and 5V.

Other SCSI interfaces use two resistors for each SCSI signal -- a 220 ohm resistor connected to +5V, and a 330 ohm resistor connected to ground. This means that each signal then switches between 0V and 3V. A 3V level is still a TTL high, but I'm wondering whether this is causing problems.