helium drive 10tb
Sebastian york
compos mentis
Sebastian york
On Mar 18, 2020, at 19:42, compos mentis <pbzcbf...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm confused. Does the drive have an internal fault or a PCB fault, or are you talking about two different drives?If you have a PCB fault, then there may be a simple repair. There is plenty of information at hddoracle.com. I have also written several tools to parse the ROMs.Can you upload a photo of the PCB?
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compos mentis
Desert Data Recovery
I've seen several threads at HDD Guru where people have experienced stiction faults with these drives. I don't know if anyone ever solved the case.
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Sebastian york
On Mar 18, 2020, at 19:57, compos mentis <pbzcbf...@gmail.com> wrote:
I've seen several threads at HDD Guru where people have experienced stiction faults with these drives. I don't know if anyone ever solved the case.
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Sebastian york
On Mar 18, 2020, at 20:40, Desert Data Recovery <t...@desertdatarecovery.com> wrote:
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compos mentis
wayne horner
"Cleanroom Data Recovery of RAID, VMware, Network Attached Storage, Linux, Tape, Disk, Forensics"
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Sebastian york
On Mar 19, 2020, at 00:59, wayne horner <waynea...@gmail.com> wrote:
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t...@desertdatarecovery.com
Its not the fact its dust free. The HDD is filled with Helium which is one of the smallest molecule gases on earth. It is filled with Helium as it is much thinner than air and therefore reduces the vibrations within the drive and allows for thinner platters, therefore allowing for more platters in a 3.5” drive (more capacity) and a lower fly height over the media. The drive is sealed to prevent the gas from escaping.
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sebh...@gmail.com
Tim, though gas Is out nothing can be retrieved?
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t...@desertdatarecovery.com
That is a million dollar question. Up until recently the general consensus was that they are not recoverable. However there are now very experiences DR engineers who are beginning to work with them. However rates of recovery I suspect are very low. You cannot work with FW on these drive either as they are locked, so any attempt to ‘massage’ the FW to help the drive read is also not possible.
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Alandata Recovery
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jol qwerr
so...
build a box
pump it full of helium
cross fingers...
Any1 ever tried it
I was thing about that
jol qwerr
Thinking*
marcos
Why dont you send us a dump of your ROM?
Thinking*
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compos mentis
t...@desertdatarecovery.com
Possibly not. If you could find out the initial pressure inside the drive as a starting point, you could make a guesses on the increase in pressure from a spinning drive (from a HDD taking into account the thinner gas of helium) and pressurize the box to be the same. If you could get it to work, you could change pressure settings and see how the read speed of the drive reacts.
From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of compos mentis
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 1:36 PM
To: DataRecoveryCertification <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: helium drive 10tb
Wouldn't you need to run the drive with its cover on? If so, then this means that you would need to purge the air from inside.
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Alandata Recovery
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marcos
I do not think the helium in the hard drive is pressurized. They
actually use helium to decrease the internal pressure and hence
drag. If they wanted higher drag, they could use some other gas
...
I think it would be safe to fill the chamber with helium to match
normal conditions.
You can make an experiment with a donor (~$250?).
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t...@desertdatarecovery.com
When a hard drive starts spinning it creates its own internal pressure. I totally agree that pressure will be less than air, but it is still pressure.
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wayne horner
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t...@desertdatarecovery.com
Okay I will cede to your experience.
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t...@desertdatarecovery.com
However, the helium drive is sealed……..
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wayne horner
"Cleanroom Data Recovery of RAID, VMware, Network Attached Storage, Linux, Tape, Disk, Forensics"
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wayne horner
"Cleanroom Data Recovery of RAID, VMware, Network Attached Storage, Linux, Tape, Disk, Forensics"
t...@desertdatarecovery.com
So are you now agreeing there is pressure in these helium drives 😊
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marcos
In any case, I bet a chamber filled with helium at 68F and 1atm will do the trick and allow the drive to spin.
Do you have a chamber?
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marcos
Though once the drive is unsealed and spinning, T will increase within the drive, P too, besides fluid dynamics effects, and probably push some gas outside. You will need the container having the same conditions (P,T) as when the drive is spinning.
Quite an interesting problem.
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compos mentis
dradra
Newb question but how are these helium drives even charged with the gas during the manufacturing process? Is there a port somewhere with a valve?
From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com [mailto:datarecovery...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of compos mentis
Sent: Tuesday, 24 March 2020 2:46 PM
To: DataRecoveryCertification
Subject: Re: helium drive 10tb
I would think that the helium pressure would be 1 ATM when the drive is sealed, just like an air drive. The fly height would be determined by the design of the slider. Is there any reason why the manufacturer needs to do it differently?
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dradra
Ok cheers.
I take it the port will be much like a one way valve. To my understanding the helium reduces the load on the spindle motor so it requires less energy to spin more platters. I wonder if that is a green approach or necessary due to additional weight from more platters. Although I read somewhere they changed the platter density to that similar to a 2.5in HDD, so thinner more lightweight platters should cancel out any difference I would think. As someone mentioned previous it would be interesting to see if the spindle will still power up with air. Have you tried that yet? I am sorry I do think someone asked that earlier but not sure what the outcome was.
I am also wondering will the absence of helium have an impact on the fly height of the sliders to the platter?
A chamber as Marcos (if memory serves) mentioned seems like the way, unless the lid could be sealed back down with Devcon or some sort of epoxy. On that note I wonder if hot glue could be used or would the pressure still be too much? I guess we are only talking about a temporary seal just long enough to get the data.
Interesting times. Best of luck with it. Will be good to see how you go.
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Amarbir[CDR-Labs]
t...@desertdatarecovery.com
FWIU (correct me please if I have this wrong), helium reduces the amount of turbulence in the drive caused by the airflow as the platters spin. Helium therefore reduces the vibration within the drive and allows for thinner platters (ie more platters for the given space, therefore more storage space).
From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of dradra
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 12:05 AM
To: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: helium drive 10tb
Ok cheers.
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compos mentis
marcos
I fully agree with Compos that the pressure within the drive when
the drive is off should be 1 atm at room temperature. It does not
make much sense to increase the gas density in the drive if what
you want is to reduce drag and turbulence. As well, it would make
it more expensive to reduce or increase the gas density during
manufacture.
Now, if the drive is unsealed, once it starts spinning it will
generate heat and the gas pressure within the drive will locally
increase. There will be a gas and T flow towards the outside
(which is at a lower pressure).
That is why the whole containing vessel should have a slightly
higher pressure (as Compos mentioned, 1.08Atm - "or so"). A
pressure increase delta of 0.08 over 1 atm is basically about a
10% and might be significant for the gas dynamics within the
drive. The fluid dynamics of the spinning disk are beyond what I
am willing to undertake today, though.
I also see it could be necessary to reassemble the drive and try
to reseal it even if not completely possible in order to make the
pressure exchange between the containing vessel and the drive a
quasi-static process.
A containing vessel with a slightly higher gas pressure (either more gas or just in a heat bath) should do the trick. Because you don't want to see the heads crash on your precious platter if something goes wrong, I recommend trying first with an unsealed and resealed donor.
I think we might be developing helium HDDs recoveries here, guys.
Let's keep on discussing, it is very valuable topic.
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Alandata Recovery
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marcos
No need to use a ziplock bag. The easiest way to do it is this. I
am not kidding.
Put the drive in a box (called vessel from now on) with a hole in the top and a hole in the bottom. Throw the sata cables through the bottom hole.
Attach your helium source to the top hole and make sure this one is sealed.
Start blowing helium in. The helium density is way lower than air
density so it will "float" on top of the air layer. The more
helium you blow in, the less space for air there will be. And
therefore, air will be pushed away through the bottom hole. Try to
do it slowly to avoid turbulence within the vessel.
After a few minutes blowing helium in, you can breath some "gas" from the bottom hole and say "Don’t worry, if Plan A doesn’t work, there are 25 more letters in the alphabet.".
If it comes out with a funny voice, there you go, your vessel is
mostly filled with helium. You can calculate the pressure inside
the vessel with the Bernoulli eqs, and regulate the helium flow to
match whatever pressure you like. Or put a barometer inside the
vessel, that would also work ...
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marcos
One important note!
Make sure the drive is facing down or sideways or air will "stay"
stay on any basin shaped part, as if it was water. If it is
sideways or facing down, air will "sink" in the helium layer and
go away.
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compos mentis
On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 4:15:42 PM UTC+11, compos mentis wrote:
the pressure of a gas is inversely proportional to its temperature ..
wayne horner
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wayne horner
"Cleanroom Data Recovery of RAID, VMware, Network Attached Storage, Linux, Tape, Disk, Forensics"
marcos
Lift and drag on the aerofoil (the reading headss) both depend on
the density of the surrounding gas. In that regard you are right
that the vessel static pressure is not directly involved.
Now, we have a poorly sealed vessel (so there is matter exchange with the medium), there is a temperature condition in the boundary (so there is heat exchange), a heat source within the vessel (the spinning drive), and helium is a compressible fluid.
Density of gases changes with pressure and temperature because gases are compressible fluids. When pressure increases molecules come closer to each other and density increases. When pressure drops, molecules of gases become free to expand and get away from each other and density decreases. Since in case of gases pressure and temperature are proportional to each other for a given volume, temperature also causes a change in the density.The physics in such a system might be different from the physics of a sealed drive and therefore pressure and temperature conditions might be relevant with regards to gas density, hence your drag and lift might vary and the drive read slowly or something else. Maybe the effect on gas density is negligible, maybe not.
I would try the experiment with a donor drive first, just for
precaution.
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t...@desertdatarecovery.com
Are we overthinking this. If there is a valve (presumably one-way) to push helium into the chassis, wouldn’t that be the best way to approach it. No vessel needed. If the drive is sealed apart from a small gap in the lid, then injecting helium would force the air out (have the drive upside down as suggested). Then seal the gap?
From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of marcos
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 10:58 AM
To: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: helium drive 10tb
Lift and drag on the aerofoil (the reading headss) both depend on the density of the surrounding gas. In that regard you are right that the vessel static pressure is not directly involved.
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wayne horner
"Cleanroom Data Recovery of RAID, VMware, Network Attached Storage, Linux, Tape, Disk, Forensics"
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t...@desertdatarecovery.com
The weight of the necklace which is not affected by pressure swings away from the turn (centrifugal force).
The balloon is pushed the opposite way as the air pressure in the car moves away from the turn.
I feel like I am on Jeopardy……
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Carlos Marmolejos
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 Carlos Marmolejos Data Recovery Engineer Email: sop...@datarecovery.com.do
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t...@desertdatarecovery.com
That message in the utility usually means the drive is not supported yet.
From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Carlos Marmolejos
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 6:23 AM
To: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: helium drive 10tb
Hi guys, today I have the same problem, stuck heads.
1. Open the drive , let the Helium go away
2. Unstuck heads
3. Close Drive
4. Power on . With a pc3000 portable , it gets an ID, but now the drive is Security Locked, Anyone have faced this problem?. Acelab says they are working on it, but it's not ready yet.!!
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Carlos Marmolejos Data Recovery Engineer
Telf: 809 533 1679 Email: sop...@datarecovery.com.do |
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Luke Coughey
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Carlos Marmolejos
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pbzcbf...@gmail.com
pbzcbf...@gmail.com
Carlos Marmolejos
Can you show us a photo of the inside of the HDA? Can you see the helium sensor? Would it be possible to connect a helium sensor from another drive via fly wires, or does the sensor's output pass through the preamp?
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pbzcbf...@gmail.com
pbzcbf...@gmail.com
pbzcbf...@gmail.com
Carlos Eljuri
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t...@desertdatarecovery.com
So you are recommending he take the drive off PC-3000, one of the best professional data recovery hardware/software combinations in the world and try Parted Magic instead…….
From: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com <datarecovery...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Carlos Eljuri
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 6:36 AM
To: datarecovery...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: helium drive 10tb
Hi I have one question, when the drive is ready in PC3000 the motor still spin?
If the motor still spin you can try to clone with parted magic, you cant control anything about the heads or sectors but maybe you can clone the entre drive
Best regards
El jue, 24 mar 2022 14:23, Carlos Marmolejos <cmarm...@gmail.com> escribió:
Hi guys, today I have the same problem, stuck heads.
1. Open the drive , let the Helium go away
2. Unstuck heads
3. Close Drive
4. Power on . With a pc3000 portable , it gets an ID, but now the drive is Security Locked, Anyone have faced this problem?. Acelab says they are working on it, but it's not ready yet.!!
Carlos Marmolejos
Data Recovery Engineer
Telf: 809 533 1679
Email: sop...@datarecovery.com.do
Salva un árbol, no imprimas este mensaje si no es necesario
Think green. Do not print if it is not necesary.
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Carlos Marmolejos
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DiskTuna
LarrySabo
jpv...@gmail.com
" or run spinrite" Hahahaha!
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pbzcbf...@gmail.com
Paulo Braga
https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?p=296433#p296433"I had a Seagate 12TB Helium case, device dropped, HSA clicking.... It was under warranty, sent it to Seagate labs, they recovered data."
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Data Recovery Certification Group / for issue with google group please email sc...@myharddrivedied.com
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pbzcbf...@gmail.com
The drive was clicking, it was dropped from a table. They told me they recovered 99.5% of the data. They didn't provide file list and I couldn't check what they recovered before they sent the drive... it looks like they did a good job, they got 8TB of data. I told them to keep the drive until I confirm it was 100% ok.
When I shipped patient drive, they send me a new 12 TB to compensate (I had to pay customs 33 CHF) and they returned data on 10 TB HDD with bitlocker enabled and pw was sent by email.
So now I have 12 TB + 10 TB + DATA for 70 USD (customs) but I don't have patient drive to check what they did."
Carlos Marmolejos
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Data Recovery Certification Group / for issue with google group please email sc...@myharddrivedied.com
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Carlos Marmolejos Data Recovery Engineer Email: sop...@datarecovery.com.do |
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pbzcbf...@gmail.com
Viktor Gyory
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Data Recovery Certification Group / for issue with google group please email sc...@myharddrivedied.com
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Claude Barras
wayne horner
"Cleanroom Data Recovery of RAID, VMware, Network Attached Storage, Linux, Tape, Disk, Forensics"
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