RDF tools?

[Aerik]

Does anyone know of any good resources for using RDF? (either as a
consumer or a provider, but mostly I'm looking for authoring tools.)

Looking around, it seems like a lot of standards are based on RDF, and
there are plenty of cases where one might want to take a common
standard and extend it - and the path to follow is to add already
existing rdf properties.

For instance, I am looking at making an Atom (or RSS) feed of events.
I want to be able to have published date, start date, end date, and
several forms of geo location (city/state/country, and also lat/
lang). I have had to look pretty hard to find existing RDF namespaces
having appropriate elements - I'm finding them, but it's not been easy
- so I'm thinking other developers working on making data accessibly
might bump into the same issue: they know they could make it portable
with RDF, but it's not easy to design.

Any thoughts? Links to good resources?

Best Regards,
Aerik

[Joaquin Salvachua]

Hello,

In some semantic web projects, about 9-6 years ago,  we used Jena and sesame (http://jena.sourceforge.net/  , http://www.openrdf.org/). Now we would have used the SPARQL (http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/ ) query lang.  For editing Protege is the most used for ontologies  (http://protege.stanford.edu/ )

  Some people have talk me possitively about RubyRDF (http://www.w3.org/2001/12/rubyrdf/intro.html ) since we are mainly using Ruby on Rails for our projects.

Hope it helps. Dont hesitate to ask me.

Joaquín.

[Aerik Sylvan]

Hi,

Thank you very much for the links... I've checked them out a little, but from what I've looked at they look more like frameworks and tools... I'm kind of after something more akin to a publishing wizard ...

I looked at http://ebiquity.umbc.edu/blogger/2007/09/23/top-rdf-namespaces/ and http://pingthesemanticweb.com/stats/namespaces.php and those are of some help, but what I have in mind is a thing to help me publish documented using rdf (or whatever, really, but rdf seems to make sense) for easy syndication. 

For example, if I want to publish event data, I want to have not just publication date (as in RSS) but also the date of the event, the geo location (lat/lang) and the human readable location (San Jose, CA for example) and don't know where to start to find appropriate namespaces for those concepts.  Even after searching for awhile, it seems much harder than it should be.  I thought this is an activity that is very relevant to data portability - a tool or resource to help people easily markup and syndicate feeds.  I've seen the list on the data portability website of common protocols, etc, but what if those don't fit my need neatly?  RDF already provides an extensible framework, so that seems like a natural thing to do, but it also seems count productive to publish my own namespace for concepts that are pretty universal (event time, geo location, etc).

I'll keep looking for resources.   If I find anything good, I'll write back and/or post it on the wiki.  If I don't find anything good, I might have to take a stab at creating something... 8-O

Aerik

--
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http://tagthis.info - Hosted Tagging for your website!

[Erling Wegger Linde]

Hi,

For the geographic stuff you should check out
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/geo/XGR-geo-20071023/W3C_XGR_Geo_files/geo_2007.owl
or maybe http://www.georss.org/

My source is http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/geo/

To include RDF in Atom I like to put it in the <content> element of an
entry, such as

<content type="application/rdf+xml"> Your RDF here.. </content> - that
way a generic client may make a bit more sense of it.. and it is
easier to use program against with standard libraries (e.g. ROME).

I suggest you use Jena (check out the jenabean project btw.) or Sesame
in combination with Sparql to serialize and parse the RDF.

Hope this helps,
I'm not really into the geotagging stuff, so you should probably look
for a community in that area and ask what ontologies they mainly use.
Finally, this might be a good idea.. http://geohash.org/site/tips.html

Regards,
- Erling

On Jun 18, 7:33 pm, "Aerik Sylvan" <asyl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thank you very much for the links... I've checked them out a little, but
> from what I've looked at they look more like frameworks and tools... I'm
> kind of after something more akin to a publishing wizard ...
>

> I looked athttp://ebiquity.umbc.edu/blogger/2007/09/23/top-rdf-namespaces/andhttp://pingthesemanticweb.com/stats/namespaces.phpand those are of some

> help, but what I have in mind is a thing to help me publish documented using
> rdf (or whatever, really, but rdf seems to make sense) for easy
> syndication.
>
> For example, if I want to publish event data, I want to have not just
> publication date (as in RSS) but also the date of the event, the geo
> location (lat/lang) and the human readable location (San Jose, CA for
> example) and don't know where to start to find appropriate namespaces for
> those concepts. Even after searching for awhile, it seems much harder than
> it should be. I thought this is an activity that is very relevant to data
> portability - a tool or resource to help people easily markup and syndicate
> feeds. I've seen the list on the data portability website of common
> protocols, etc, but what if those don't fit my need neatly? RDF already
> provides an extensible framework, so that seems like a natural thing to do,
> but it also seems count productive to publish my own namespace for concepts
> that are pretty universal (event time, geo location, etc).
>
> I'll keep looking for resources. If I find anything good, I'll write back
> and/or post it on the wiki. If I don't find anything good, I might have to
> take a stab at creating something... 8-O
>
> Aerik
>

> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Joaquin Salvachua <jsalvac...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hello,
>
> > In some semantic web projects, about 9-6 years ago, we used Jena and

> > sesame (http://jena.sourceforge.net/ ,http://www.openrdf.org/). Now we
> > would have used the SPARQL (http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/) query
> > lang. For editing Protege is the most used for ontologies (

> >http://protege.stanford.edu/)
>
> > Some people have talk me possitively about RubyRDF (

> >http://www.w3.org/2001/12/rubyrdf/intro.html) since we are mainly using

> > Ruby on Rails for our projects.
>
> > Hope it helps. Dont hesitate to ask me.
>
> > Joaquín.
>

> > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:13 PM, Aerik <asyl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Does anyone know of any good resources for using RDF? (either as a
> >> consumer or a provider, but mostly I'm looking for authoring tools.)
>
> >> Looking around, it seems like a lot of standards are based on RDF, and
> >> there are plenty of cases where one might want to take a common
> >> standard and extend it - and the path to follow is to add already
> >> existing rdf properties.
>
> >> For instance, I am looking at making an Atom (or RSS) feed of events.
> >> I want to be able to have published date, start date, end date, and
> >> several forms of geo location (city/state/country, and also lat/
> >> lang). I have had to look pretty hard to find existing RDF namespaces
> >> having appropriate elements - I'm finding them, but it's not been easy
> >> - so I'm thinking other developers working on making data accessibly
> >> might bump into the same issue: they know they could make it portable
> >> with RDF, but it's not easy to design.
>
> >> Any thoughts? Links to good resources?
>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Aerik
>

> --http://www.wikidweb.com- the Wiki Directory of the Webhttp://tagthis.info- Hosted Tagging for your website!

[Aerik Sylvan]

Thanks for all the pointers everyone.  I also stumbled accross http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar with looks to be the same as http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfcal/ on first glance.  I think that's the ticket - looks like it's fairly well established, even if it's not widely used yet (though I think it's on it's way: Technorati is using it in "beta":http://technorati.com/events/).

But I think this discussion underscores a point:  the need for a centralized list of standards in a searchable format (so that someone wanting to publish something can easily find the appropriate markup).

Best Regards,
Aerik

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http://tagthis.info - Hosted Tagging for your website!

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[Aerik Sylvan]

What do you all think of this example of hcal (http://calagator.org/events.atom) where there is html in a feed, vs. using straight xml and putting the calendar tags (http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfcal/ ) right in the feed?  To me, the hcal markup (really html with more stuff in it) inside the RSS feed seems klunky and kind of silly - seems much cleaner (lower bandwidth, easier to parse) to put the rdfcal tags right in the feed if you're already dealing with xml and not html... I think hcal is great for use in html pages - don't get me wrong - but if you're already dealing with xml, why not apply KISS principle and use the already appropriate xml tags.

But I'd like to get some community feedback from any interested parties.

Thanks!!

Aerik

P.S.  My interest in all this is promoting a standard event feed mechanism and then trying to get it adopted by various (mostly charitable) organizations for sharing and publishing events.  A good standard for publishing events with complete date and location data will enable other sites to aggregate events and it will be easier to match volunteers to appropriate opportunities.

[Erling Wegger Linde]

I'm not sure if my following point makes sense in this specific case,
but for the generic case, I would say that it would be good to support
both. E.g. if you can put HTML in the <summary> element for human
readability you can in addition have your XML (or better RDF)
elsewhere for "applications" to use. In the long run you might even
consider putting RDFa in the <summary> element.

Another discussion is whether to extend Atom (or RSS) feeds with new
namespaces.. You should consider putting other metadata in the
<content> element of the Atom entries. You can even specify the type
attribute (e.g. application/xml or application/rdf+xml) for these
elements. I think this is a more "generic" way to extend Atom.

I think it is great that you are trying to create a standard for event feeds.

- Erling

--
Med vennlig hilsen
Erling Wegger Linde

[Aerik Sylvan]

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Erling Wegger Linde <erli...@gmail.com> wrote:

Another discussion is whether to extend Atom (or RSS) feeds with new
namespaces.. You should consider putting other metadata in the
<content> element of the Atom entries. You can even specify the type
attribute (e.g. application/xml or application/rdf+xml) for these
elements. I think this is a more "generic" way to extend Atom.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm thinking of; putting the additional RDF tags inside an Atom (or RSS) feed.  I want to put one together and test it with existing feedreaders.
 

I think it is great that you are trying to create a standard for event feeds.

Thanks!  I think it's long overdue!

[Aerik Sylvan]

Sorry for the late bump of the thread, but I'm still researching.  Google, it turns out, has been adding where/when information to their calendar feeds for some time.  Here's the spec:

http://code.google.com/apis/gdata/elements.html

What's the feeling about the GData API/namespace?  I've got mixed feelings - it's not exactly an open standard, but on the other hand, the fact that Google is publishing massive amounts of information using these formats means it has critical mass...

Thanks!
Aerik

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Aerik Sylvan <ae...@thesylvans.com>
Date: Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [DP.AG.Tech] Re: RDF tools?
To: dataportability...@googlegroups.com


Hi,

Thank you very much for the links... I've checked them out a little, but from what I've looked at they look more like frameworks and tools... I'm kind of after something more akin to a publishing wizard ...

I looked at
http://ebiquity.umbc.edu/blogger/2007/09/23/top-rdf-namespaces/

http://pingthesemanticweb.com/stats/namespaces.php

and then here http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/1999Dec/0002.html it looks like this guy was working on something akin to what I'm after.

What I have in mind is a thing to help me publish documented using rdf (or whatever, really, but rdf seems to make sense) for easy syndication.  For example, if I want to publish event data, I want to have not just publication date (as in RSS) but also the date of the event, the geo location (lat/lang) and the human readable location (San Jose, CA for example) and don't know where to start to find appropriate namespaces for those concepts.  Even after searching for awhile, it seems much harder than it should be.  I thought this is an activitiy that is very relevant to data portability - a tool or resource to help people easily markup and syndicate feeds.  I've seen the list on the data portability website of common protocols, etc, but what if those don't fit my need neatly?  RDF already provides an extensible framework, so that seems like a natural thing to do, but it also seems count productive to publish my own namespace for concepts that are pretty universal (event time, geo location, etc).

I'll keep looking for resources.   If I find anything good, I'll write back and/or post it on the wiki.  If I don't find anything good, I might have to take a stab at creating something... 8-O

Aerik

--
http://www.wikidweb.com - the Wiki Directory of the Web
http://tagthis.info - Hosted Tagging for your website!

--
http://www.wikidweb.com - the Wiki Directory of the Web
http://tagthis.info - Hosted Tagging for your website!