TECH-DBUG Digest Tuesday, October 2 V2018 #015

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Evan Shu

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Oct 2, 2018, 10:37:08 AM10/2/18
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Date: Tue, 2 October 2018 10:30:00 -0500
From: DATACAD-TECH
Subject: TECH-DBUG Digest Tuesday, October 2 V2018 #015

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datacad-dbug-digest Tuesday, October 2 2018  Volume 2018:No 015

For DBUG Tech BulletinBd or to Join: http://www.tinyurl.com/DBUGTech

  DBUG> STC Ratings
  DBUG> STC Ratings
  DBUG> STC Ratings
  DBUG> STC Ratings
  DBUG> STC Ratings
  DBUG> STC Ratings
  DBUG> STC Ratings
  DBUG> STC 
  DBUG> STC 
  DBUG> STC 
  DBUG REMINDER: Wed. Meeting, September 12th DBUG Meet in Maynard
  DBUG REMINDER: Wed. Meeting, September 12th DBUG Meet in Maynard
  DBUG REMINDER: Wed. Meeting, September 12th DBUG Meet in Maynard
  DBUG> High Performance Details
  DBUG> High Performance Details

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Date: Sep 12 2018
Subject: DBUG> STC Ratings
From: Neil Blanchard 


Hi folks, I am learning about STC ratings, and it is hard to find a definitive source for all the partition types. We are using metal studs, ranging in depth from 1 5/8" to 8", and we have 5/8" GWB and (2) layers of 1/2" GWB, and most partitions are with and without acoustic batts.  Some have the GWB up to the structure above, and some have it to just above the ceiling. 

Do you have "official" tables that show all / most of these permutations?

-- 
Sincerely, Neil 


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Date: Sep 14 2018
Subject: DBUG> STC Ratings
From: JAID 

I am not sure if they are still there Neil but one of the Australian manufactures, maybe USC Boral or CSR had set up US operations a decade plus ago. All their many identified systems give ratings. Now, more likely NRC (Noise Reduction Co-efficient) or Rw (Weighted Standardised Field Level Difference) (similar to STC) given appropriate acoustic integrity. Also Rw/Rw+Ctr as prescribed by our Building Code. 

Maybe you have the German company Knauf there. They also identify sound reduction on all their systems. 

These operators provide a wealth of information. 

Even if they are not there, a download of CSR Gyprock's RedBook may give you a useful acoustic primer or show systems which can be equated exactly with your own. 

Certainly, local material would be better. 

Regards 

Ian 

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Date: Sep 14 2018
Subject: DBUG> STC Ratings
From: James Horecka 

There are many resources. I trust you already own several books on acoustics in office environments and more. For basics, see the many small handbooks and such by manufacturers. For decades. Also on-line. They will typically graphically show and describe the assembly, thickness the fire rating, STC, perhaps more (depending).

There is no single source that will show "all/most" permutations. Not even close, considering they are infinite. Hell, I've seen some in person that are flat-out incredible, and incredibly expensive (anechoic chambers are FAB, BTW).

Here's a quicky I just now flipped up:


Paper manuals are handy, too. Even old ones: The info pretty much stays the same, in the realm of using standard materials.

Note: Cost and many other factors play into all this. Sure, it's nice to have wunnerful properties. But at what cost? Yeah, so all such work ends up being a whole pile of compromises, balanced as best you can for a given problem set and budget.

NEVER ever promise a specific performance. That's a great way to get your arse in a sling. Just do what you can, with the (never sufficient) budget you're given.

In college, there were classes on acoustics. One of the things covered is that the benefits of stuff is NOT additive!!! So just throwing in another layer of something will likely not be worth the cost, at some point. There are also many facets and factors. Not running a partition to the deck? Then you're not serious about sound transmission. Outlets back-to-back, or even in the same stud bay? Deliver me. FG batts as "acoustic" insulation? Wooo boy; funny. Omitted sealant? Uh-oh. Didn't tend to HVAC ductwork? That'll leave a mark.

For special stuff, deep study is required. Check that: Engaging an acoustic engineer is required.

For most projects I deal with these days, I engage an acoustic engineer. Well, more correctly, the AoR does. His report might only be a few pages long. That's fine. Read what he recommends. Have the project estimator put numbers to it all. If the Owner agrees, move ahead. If not: Document that, too: Owner had the chance and passed: His choice.

Radio stations get interesting. Though I treasure every moment I spent with the old experts I had the pleasure of learning from along the way.

Recording and broadcast studios, too. Theaters. Auditoriums. Music performance spaces. Lots of goodies for all these. Working alongside peeps who have decades of experience is great, if you're lucky. Lots of trade knowledge & lingo.

The rise of home theaters has rocked the world of acoustics. Sooooo many cool products out there!!!!! But yeah, alas, almost none of those home-theater goodies are cost-appropriate for mundane business offices. Nor should they be. Enter the boring tables for mass-quantities of commercial interior non-bearing partition walls.

But what numbers to choose? You need to establish criteria before you can begin selecting assemblies. That is, one must understand the PROBLEM SET before lobbing 'solutions' at it.

RESEARCH. Same as all other chunks. Gotta ramp up.

Books. Courses. Mini-manuals by MFRs. Trade contractors (drywall & metal stud guys).

Serious work? Engage a consulting acoustic engineer. Cheap in comparison to making grave errors. However, one caveat: This firm, too, must understand the Problem Sets. So he/she will have to meet with the Clients to either get the criteria (LOL) or, more likely, all working together will circle in on expectations, for each space. And each space, or more likely types of spaces, will have differing requirements. Don't bleed money where you don't need to. DO spend money on CEO offices, large conference rooms, recording rooms, auditoriums &c. Document document document. Once the Problem Sets are all pinned down, then he can recommend a few menus of potential solutions, for each type.

Don't forget floors and ceilings. Watch for flanking paths. Sound is energy: It reflects! Some spaces must be specially shaped, and/or proportioned to certain ratios (& not others). Glazed openings are fun. Machine noise can be a royal pain in the ass. White noise can be your friend. BGM & sound effects, too! Doors are necessary, yet leaky: Attend to details, but watch ADA force limits. Speaking of which: ADA has Standards governing acoustics. Oh, and so does OSHA. And some corporations have safety experts who really put the screws to facility designers regarding acoustics in work environments. State and sometimes local laws often govern acoustics for certain occupancies: e.g., residential or office near interstate highways (both wall assemblies and glazing assemblies affected).

Enjoy the learning path to the sometimes funky jargon!

Good hunting!

WFS

James Horecka

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Date: Sep 14 2018
Subject: DBUG> STC Ratings
From: David Sargert 

Looks like the pdf I sent was too large for the group. I’ll post the link when I am at the computer later.
I have also had very good success using homosote as an interior layer in conference, demising walls and executive areas along with this stuff 

David K. Sargert, LEED AP 

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Date: Sep 14 2018
Subject: DBUG> STC Ratings
From: Mark Wilhelm 

Neil, 

Complicated subject.  Surprised this is new to you.  Most manufacturers
of drywall system have assembly tables that illustrate various 
assemblies and give STC ratings for them. Also, Gypsum Association 
publication GA-600 lists assemblies and STC ratings.  In UL listings STC 
ratings are shown for a few tested assemblies.  I don't think there is 
any single place you will find "official" tables. 

Good luck! 

Mark Wilhelm 

Marblehead, MA 

-------------------------------

Date: Sep 14 2018
Subject: DBUG> STC Ratings
From: David Bergman 

I think USGypsum has what you need .... 

Acoustical Assemblies: 
and also 

David 

David Bergman     RA  LEED AP  CPHD 

   Please note new email address 

architect |              David Bergman Architect 
author | Sustainable Design: A Critical Guide 
blog |                               EcoOptimism.com 
adjunct faculty |    Parsons School of Design 

212 475 3106                    da...@davidbergmaneco.com   
www.davidbergmaneco.com       twitter: @EcoOptimism 

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Date: Sep 14 2018
Subject: DBUG> STC Ratings
From: James Horecka

Aye, the USG manuals. One of the ones I was referring to when I said "manuals."

See next message. I attached pics.

Easy. Fast.

James Horecka


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Date: Sep 14 2018
Subject: DBUG> STC
From: Neil Blanchard

Thank you David - that looks like the comprehensive reference I was hoping for.

On 9/12/2018 8:26 AM, David K. Sargert wrote:
This has been a very useful guide for me in the past when I had to meet a UL spec.



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Date: Sep 14 2018
Subject: DBUG> STC 
From: David Sargert


I’m glad that I can finally help the guy who has helped me (us) for decades


David K. Sargert, LEED AP 

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Date: Sep 14 2018
Subject: DBUG> STC 
From: James Horecka

I meant to include the following two snapshots, which I took once I was back in my office.

I've used this manual for decades. Probably my favorite. Super easy to use. Tag your go-to cost-effective solutions.

But remember: You must know and understand the criteria for each problem set before choosing from among possible candidates.

Basic seven-step problem solving process: "Selection" is near the end. MUCH work to do before that step.

Also: The assembly is but one chunk of a rather complex system. One incorrect bit, and you've blown it. Outlets B-B or sharing a bay are a good example. Sound shoots right through: Privacy compromised.

James Horecka



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Subject: DBUG REMINDER: Wed. Meeting, September 12th DBUG Meeting in Maynard
From: Neil Blanchard
Date: Sep 14 2018


Hello DBUG'ers,

I will be broadcasting video on Facebook, this evening.  And David Henderson will be demonstrating his Space Planner macro via Google Hangouts.  I think that stream will be able to be signed into, if you have a Google account / Gmail email.  I will post links to both the FB and the Hangouts streams when I start those.

Look for an email close to the 6pm EST.

On 9/10/2018 11:21 AM, Evan H Shu, FAIA wrote:
                 AGENDA for SEPTEMBER 2018 DBUG MEETING

WHEN: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 6:00 p.m.

WHERE: Neil Blanchard's House
13 Chandler St. (Directions & Map Link Below)
Maynard, MA 01754

RSVP to HOST: Neil Blanchard <neil.bl...@verizon.net>

                     PROGRAM AGENDA

Food / Reception ($5 donation)

Welcome, Introduction, General Announcements

Blanchard House Update  
         by Neil Blanchard

Last year at this time, Neil showed us his ambitious plans for a house addition, new solar panels, and cellulose insulation. He will give us an update on how all those items have progressed with an emphasis on the solar panel system installation and performance.

DH Software: Space Planning Macro
         by David Henderson and Neil Blanchard
We have all missed having an updated Blocker Space Planning macro these many years. We finally have a replacement macro. Neil (and hopefully David Henderson via remote link) will demonstrate how it works. If time allows, we will also take a look at the DH Software Shadow macro.

DataCAD 20 New Features
          by Neil Blanchard
DataCAD continues to march on with quarterly updates to its flagship product. Neil will demonstrate some of the latest updates (such as Symbol Layer Manager and Installer) as well as give us a heads-up on what may be coming down the line (Pak-N-Go, Symbol Browser, ClipCube enhancements).


DIRECTIONS: Google Map Link: http://goo.gl/maps/e3rSN

13 Chandler St.
Maynard MA 01754

-------------------------------------

Subject: DBUG REMINDER: Wed. Meeting, September 12th DBUG Meeting in Maynard
From: Neil Blanchard
Date: Sep 14 2018

It turns out that Facebook no longer allows live video streaming.  So, I didn't do that.  Google Hangouts worked very well for David Henderson's presentation, and it requires invitations - so I will ask ahead of time for people who would want an invitation.


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Subject: DBUG REMINDER: Wed. Meeting, September 12th DBUG Meeting in Maynard
From: David Sargert
Date: Sep 16 2018


Please do

David K. Sargert, LEED AP 


-------------------------------------


Subject: DBUG> High Performance Details
From: David Sargert
Date: Sep 21


Here is a Dropbox Link for some Passive Haus Details David Bergman introduced me to via 475 Building Supply - https://foursevenfive.com - They have monthly downloads via their newsletter.

Unfortunately, I could only convert one file to *aec (X3) despite trying to dumb them down to earlier versions of Acad via DWG TrueView. 
Hopefully you guys will have more luck using better tools.
Regardless the information is quite good. Thanks again DB!


__________________________
David K. Sargert, LEED AP
Click here to Reply


------------------------------------

From:David Bergman
Subject: DBUG> High Performance Details
Date: Sep 24 2018


And as David S mentioned, 475 is a great resource for info as well as materials and equipment. They’re Passive House folks and very knowledgeable. I took my PH training as well as the exam there. (I’m lucky they’re local.)

David

David Bergman     RA  LEED AP  CPHD
                  

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

On Sep 21, 2018, at 10:51 PM, Robert Scott <scottreside...@gmail.com> wrote:

These are very cool and the timing is perfect as I'm finishing off a walk in attic on our 1880's home.  Insulation has me scratching my head the details of the roof have provided a good solution.  

Thank you very much!

Bob

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End of datacad-dbug-digest V2018 #015

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