fire rated wall penetrations

[Jim Allen]

Hi,  I've never asked an architectural question here.  But I've been knocking myself out reading the IBC lately.  Thought I would ask here and see if my reasoning is correct.

We are working on a dormitory.  R2 occupancy.  Fully sprinklered throughout, including attic etc.  The partition walls and floor ceiling assemblies need to be 1/2 hour rated.  Can we penetrate the fire rated 6" demising walls with plumbing lines using fire sealant, or what ever is approved, and keep the wall rating?  I don't think we need a continuous rated wall assembly without penetrations like a townhouse.  I know we can use electrical boxes in the walls off set 24" from each other.  But I don't know about plumbing lines that don't offset from one side to the other.

Jim Allen

[Paul Rabinowitz]

Hi Jim,

Im did a dorm building for a university in TN years ago.  We were allowed to penetrate fire rated separation walls with plumbing, electric, and hvac.  Of course, the hvac had fire dampers.  We could not just fire caulk penetrations though.  We had to use fire collars.  We used 3M products.  Select the appropriate collar for the opening.   http://www.3m.com/product/information/Fire-Barrier-Restricting-Collar.html

Cheers,

Paul

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "DataCAD-DBUG" group.
To post to this group, send email to dataca...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
datacad-dbug...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://tinyurl.com/DBUGforum
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DataCAD-DBUG" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to datacad-dbug...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[john Thomson]

The UL firestopping directory gives assemblies of penetrating a wall of one hour fire resistance.  I have never seen a 30 minute rated assembly in any code I am familiar with but I don’t use the IBC as adopted in the Midwest or east.  In any event, a UL assembly W-L-1054 will take care of conduit or plumbing pipe penetrations in a one or two hour wall using either metal studs or wood studs and one or two layers of gypsum wall board as appropriate for the rating.  You should look up the assembly on the internet to get the exact requirements.  This is a Hilti based assembly but there is a similar one for 3M firestopping putty and for some others.

 

JOhn

 

John Douglas Thomson, AIA

2535 W. 237^th Street

Suite 120

Torrance, CA 90505

310 539 1326

--

[Roger Donaldson AIA]

I think you need to review Section 709.7, which directs you to Section 713, if you are using IBC 2009.

--

Sincerely,

Roger Donaldson, AIA, CSI, CDT, Leed ap bd+c NCARB

Roger L. Donaldson, AIA P.L.C.

 

 (517) 694-0011                                                                                                                                                           Roge...@comcast.net

    voice / fax                                                                                                                                                              &n bsp;                email

DESIGNING A BETTER FUTURE

This email  is intended for the above person only.

Please advise if is was sent to you in error and promptly destroy your copy.

Should you not receive the complete email  or wish to respond to this email, please contact this office at the number or email indicated.

Email may be looked at early each day.

 

[James Horecka]

Membranes on rated fire-resistive wall assemblies may be penetrated. METAL pipe. Not plastic. In dorms, you would never use plastic anyway.

So cast iron or GI trap arms? no problemo.

I've done a zillion rated walls, floors and roofs. Up to four-hour. Penetrations are no problem: You just need to use the correct methods for the situation at hand.

Sidebar: You should already have like an entire sheet or few of fire-rated penetration details and joint details. In addition to that sheet, I'll often have a sheet o' details showing each transition condition: For example, wall to ceiling, wall teeing into another wall, doors, windows, beam wraps, column wraps, pilasters, etc. On a tricky job like a school, I'll have several sheets of such details. The Devil is in the details, and tradesmen usually screw up fire walls at the "changes." The "field" of a given wall, floor or ceiling is easy. Also be sure to VERY carefully detail around stairwells. Those perimeters are defect litigation central. I swear I've seen more screwed-up than done correctly over the decades.

 

James Horecka, AIA
Architect

[Ted Blockley]

One thing to keep in mind is that if openings (like fire protected doors) are allowed, pipe penetrations are also allowed. This covers 99% of situations you typically find in a building.

Another is that technology has changed. Newer fire caulk systems are often much more versatile, easier to install, and far less expensive than earlier ones.

Ted