Fwd: Dev Tools 9 missing

[Clifford Sekel]

Guys,

Any news on Xcode Dev tools for 9.x not being posted on opensource.apple.com for Clang and MakeOSFiles? I've emailed Apple Open Source email and haven't received a response on the issue. We sure could use exact version to which os release. 

Thanks 

Cliff Sekel 

PureDarwin

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Clifford Sekel <insane...@pd-devs.org>
Date: Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:51 PM
Subject: Dev Tools 9 missing
To: "opens...@apple.com" <opens...@apple.com>

Apple Open Source,

What happened to the source code for the Xcode 9 version for Clang and MakeOSFiles? 

Thanks

Cliff Sekel

[Iain Sandoe]

> On 13 May 2018, at 04:38, Clifford Sekel <insane...@pd-devs.org> wrote:

> Any news on Xcode Dev tools for 9.x not being posted on opensource.apple.com for Clang and MakeOSFiles? I've emailed Apple Open Source email and haven't received a response on the issue.

+1 this has been an unusually long delay for the 9 series …
Iain

(apologies for anyone seeing this more than once)

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[Clifford Sekel]

Yeah I hope they do release them soon cause I know the llvm-core in the 10.13 list is outdated and from 10.12.6. Apple what’s up with Xcode ?

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 4:46 PM Iain Sandoe <idsa...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On 13 May 2018, at 04:38, Clifford Sekel <insane...@pd-devs.org> wrote:
>

> Any news on Xcode Dev tools for 9.x not being posted on opensource.apple.com for Clang and MakeOSFiles? I've emailed Apple Open Source email and haven't received a response on the issue.

[Software Developer]

Hi Folks,

(now with the subscribed email address)

It was great to see the 9.x and 10.0 Xcode dev tools posted, thanks!

However,
* the “tapi” component needed for ld64 is still listed as “coming soon” (one month later)
* for 8.3 to 9.0 there’s no tapi component listed (does it still use 1-30?)
* there’s no clang component listed after 8.3 (not even a “coming soon” entry)?

Is there any news on the tapi, or any comment on the clang entry?

thanks
Iain

[Michael Crawford]

While clang, lldb friends are Open Source, their licenses do _not_
require release of source to derivative works.

While Apple has been quite a good Open Source citizen, in principle it
is possible for Apple to make proprietary versions of codebases that
do not require source release, and then choose not to release source.

I hope they don't.

--
Mike Crawford
Portland Custom Software Development
mi...@soggywizards.com
http://soggywizards.com
+1 (971) 386-3996

Soggy Jobs Is Hiring!
Now accepting applications for interviews starting March 12, 2019
with April 8 start date.
http://soggy.jobs/crowdfunding/2018/08/21/

[Marcus Johnson]

You sound paranoid as hell, like a mini RMS.

LLVM projects are released under permissive licenses, and pointlessly whining will not change that.

Why did you even take the time to write this?

> On Dec 11, 2018, at 3:37 AM, Michael Crawford <mi...@soggywizards.com> wrote:
>
> While clang, lldb friends are Open Source, their licenses do _not_
> require release of source to derivative works.
>
> While Apple has been quite a good Open Source citizen, in principle it
> is possible for Apple to make proprietary versions of codebases that
> do not require source release, and then choose not to release source.
>
> I hope they don't.
>
> --
> Mike Crawford
> Portland Custom Software Development
> mi...@soggywizards.com
> http://soggywizards.com
> +1 (971) 386-3996
>
> Soggy Jobs Is Hiring!
> Now accepting applications for interviews starting March 12, 2019
> with April 8 start date.
> http://soggy.jobs/crowdfunding/2018/08/21/
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwi...@lists.apple.com)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:

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[Michael Crawford]

Marcus,

I wasn't griping about the LLVM license.

In fact it was I who recommended the MIT License for the ZooLib C++
Application Framework when its principal developer Andy Green asked me
to choose one for him.

https://github.com/zoolib

I wasn't even griping about Apple.

Perhaps I was unclear: while I hope that Apple won't ever close their
presently-Open Source, they have every right to do so for what I
personally _never_ call "permissive" licenses, because I myself prefer
the GPLv2.

Mike

[Software Developer]

Folks,

> On 11 Dec 2018, at 11:01, Michael Crawford <mi...@soggywizards.com> wrote:

> I wasn't griping about the LLVM license.

> I wasn't even griping about Apple.

It was not my intention to start *any form* of discussion on licensing (IANAL).

The “status quo” was that Apple has previously posted the TAPI and clang/llvm components for the xcode toolchain.

For those of us who build toolchains, and have an interest in ensuring ABI compatibility between compilers, it would be a tremendous help if these components would continue to be posted

It would be great to know the intentions, nothing more was meant by my post than that.

(as an aside) It is also the case that tapi itself is a worthy consideration for inclusion into the LLVM project (but that is yet another discussion for a different list)

thanks
Iain

[Software Developer]

Hi Folks,

> On 11 Dec 2018, at 11:16, Software Developer <deve...@sandoe-acoustics.co.uk> wrote:

> The “status quo” was that Apple has previously posted the TAPI and clang/llvm components for the xcode toolchain.
>
> For those of us who build toolchains, and have an interest in ensuring ABI compatibility between compilers, it would be a tremendous help if these components would continue to be posted

Almost 4 months has passed … so querying again …

The components are still listed as “coming soon”
(for example https://opensource.apple.com/release/developer-tools-100.html)

please post the source,

[Jeremy Sequoia]

I thought I responded. That “coming soon” is incorrect. It should state Distributed via Github” or similar.

I am not sure if the drop was actually made to github or not yet, but that is where you should look for clang, llvm, lldb, tapi, swift et al.

Sent from my iPhone...

> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/jeremyhu%40apple.com
>
> This email sent to jere...@apple.com

[Software Developer]

Hi Jeremy,

> On 9 Apr 2019, at 20:24, Jeremy Sequoia <jere...@apple.com> wrote:
>
> I thought I responded. That “coming soon” is incorrect. It should state Distributed via Github” or similar.
>
> I am not sure if the drop was actually made to github or not yet, but that is where you should look for clang, llvm, lldb, tapi, swift et al.

OK, thanks - the situation is I don’t think it’s made upstream LLVM yet..
My understanding is that the drop on github, (which I’m using - you can see my mods to it on my github) is an ‘early preview’ and isn’t in the same shape as the final (e.g. there’s some partitioning needed between LLVM and clang parts). I will keep an eye on upstream (although I think I tried a search on Phab too, without pulling anything up beyond the initial proposal).

I will double-check, but that was the situation when I sent my email.

thanks again
Iain

[Jeremy Sequoia]

Sent from my iPhone...

> On Apr 9, 2019, at 12:37, Software Developer <deve...@sandoe-acoustics.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeremy,
>
>> On 9 Apr 2019, at 20:24, Jeremy Sequoia <jere...@apple.com> wrote:
>>
>> I thought I responded. That “coming soon” is incorrect. It should state Distributed via Github” or similar.
>>
>> I am not sure if the drop was actually made to github or not yet, but that is where you should look for clang, llvm, lldb, tapi, swift et al.
>
> OK, thanks - the situation is I don’t think it’s made upstream LLVM yet..
> My understanding is that the drop on github, (which I’m using - you can see my mods to it on my github) is an ‘early preview’ and isn’t in the same shape as the final (e.g. there’s some partitioning needed between LLVM and clang parts). I will keep an eye on upstream (although I think I tried a search on Phab too, without pulling anything up beyond the initial proposal).

That is quite possible. There were a couple hiccups preventing the drop a few months ago. I’m on paternity leave at the moment, so I’m a bit out of the know, but I’ll check on it.

[Jeremy Sequoia]

Not sure the status with github, but we are going to try getting them up on opensource.apple.com some time in the next ~week. If it is urgent, I can also ask about getting you a tarball out-of-band.

Sent from my iPhone...

[Jean-Daniel]

> Le 9 avr. 2019 à 21:37, Software Developer <deve...@sandoe-acoustics.co.uk> a écrit :
>
> Hi Jeremy,
>
>> On 9 Apr 2019, at 20:24, Jeremy Sequoia <jere...@apple.com> wrote:
>>
>> I thought I responded. That “coming soon” is incorrect. It should state Distributed via Github” or similar.
>>
>> I am not sure if the drop was actually made to github or not yet, but that is where you should look for clang, llvm, lldb, tapi, swift et al.
>
> OK, thanks - the situation is I don’t think it’s made upstream LLVM yet..
> My understanding is that the drop on github, (which I’m using - you can see my mods to it on my github) is an ‘early preview’ and isn’t in the same shape as the final (e.g. there’s some partitioning needed between LLVM and clang parts). I will keep an eye on upstream (although I think I tried a search on Phab too, without pulling anything up beyond the initial proposal).

Is this what you are talking about ? https://reviews.llvm.org/rL347808

[Software Developer]

Hi Jeremy

> On 9 Apr 2019, at 22:06, Jeremy Sequoia <jere...@apple.com> wrote:
>
> Not sure the status with github, but we are going to try getting them up on opensource.apple.com some time in the next ~week. If it is urgent, I can also ask about getting you a tarball out-of-band.

not that urgent ;-) .. just looking forward to updating my toolchains.. I made an intermediate update based on the github tapi + some modifications - but would like to pull in te latest ld64 / cctools.

thanks

[Software Developer]

Folks,

> On 9 Apr 2019, at 22:08, Jean-Daniel <mai...@xenonium.com> wrote

>
>> Le 9 avr. 2019 à 21:37, Software Developer <deve...@sandoe-acoustics.co.uk> a écrit :
>>
>> Hi Jeremy,
>>
>>> On 9 Apr 2019, at 20:24, Jeremy Sequoia <jere...@apple.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I thought I responded. That “coming soon” is incorrect. It should state Distributed via Github” or similar.
>>>
>>> I am not sure if the drop was actually made to github or not yet, but that is where you should look for clang, llvm, lldb, tapi, swift et al.
>>
>> OK, thanks - the situation is I don’t think it’s made upstream LLVM yet..
>> My understanding is that the drop on github, (which I’m using - you can see my mods to it on my github) is an ‘early preview’ and isn’t in the same shape as the final (e.g. there’s some partitioning needed between LLVM and clang parts). I will keep an eye on upstream (although I think I tried a search on Phab too, without pulling anything up beyond the initial proposal).
>
> Is this what you are talking about ? https://reviews.llvm.org/rL347808
>

heh .. it looks like lib/TextAPI/Mach-O has appeared upstream quite recently - I will take a look there, and watch opensource.apple.com too.

thanks
Iain

[Software Developer]

Jeremy, Folks,

> On 9 Apr 2019, at 16:21, Software Developer <deve...@sandoe-acoustics.co.uk> wrote:
>

>> On 9 Apr 2019, at 22:08, Jean-Daniel <mai...@xenonium.com> wrote
>>
>>> Le 9 avr. 2019 à 21:37, Software Developer <deve...@sandoe-acoustics.co.uk> a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hi Jeremy,
>>>
>>>> On 9 Apr 2019, at 20:24, Jeremy Sequoia <jere...@apple.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I thought I responded. That “coming soon” is incorrect. It should state Distributed via Github” or similar.

To be clear the code on github would not seem to be a direct reflection of the sources for the published Xcode releases (9.x, 10.x).

There is a single branch dated 7 Sep 2017 [https://github.com/ributzka/tapi].
I don’t see any tapi repository under https://github.com/apple.

If there’s a plan to push branches reflecting tapi-902.0.9 through tapi-1000.10.8, that would be great (or a source drop in the usual way)..

>>>> I am not sure if the drop was actually made to github or not yet, but that is where you should look for clang, llvm, lldb, tapi, swift et al.
>>>
>>> OK, thanks - the situation is I don’t think it’s made upstream LLVM yet..
>>> My understanding is that the drop on github, (which I’m using - you can see my mods to it on my github) is an ‘early preview’ and isn’t in the same shape as the final (e.g. there’s some partitioning needed between LLVM and clang parts). I will keep an eye on upstream (although I think I tried a search on Phab too, without pulling anything up beyond the initial proposal).
>>
>> Is this what you are talking about ? https://reviews.llvm.org/rL347808
>>
> heh .. it looks like lib/TextAPI/Mach-O has appeared upstream quite recently - I will take a look there, and watch opensource.apple.com too.

It’s really great that tapi has started to appear in upstream LLVM, and hopefully that will become complete enough for us to use it directly. However, I don’t think we’re yet at that point - so the “traditional” (and retrospective for 9.x, 10.x) sources are still needed for now.

Thanks

[Software Developer]

Jeremy, Folks,

> On 6 May 2019, at 21:11, Software Developer <deve...@sandoe-acoustics.co.uk> wrote:

>> On 9 Apr 2019, at 16:21, Software Developer <deve...@sandoe-acoustics.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>
>>> On 9 Apr 2019, at 22:08, Jean-Daniel <mai...@xenonium.com> wrote
>>>
>>>> Le 9 avr. 2019 à 21:37, Software Developer <deve...@sandoe-acoustics.co.uk> a écrit :
>>>>

>>>>> On 9 Apr 2019, at 20:24, Jeremy Sequoia <jere...@apple.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought I responded. That “coming soon” is incorrect. It should state Distributed via Github” or similar.
>
> To be clear the code on github would not seem to be a direct reflection of the sources for the published Xcode releases (9.x, 10.x).

> If there’s a plan to push branches reflecting tapi-902.0.9 through tapi-1000.10.8, that would be great (or a source drop in the usual way)..

I saw that tapi-1000.10.8 has been published on opensource.apple.com. It builds fine for me against the swift-4.2 branches on github as per instructions. .. now to integrate into my workflow!

Thanks very much!