Rumi's Ghazal 972

[Ibrahim]

Here is a new translation of Rumi's Ghazal 972, with commentary and transliteration. A link to the Persian text is also below. I came across this beautiful ghazal translated from Turkish to English in a book I got in Turkey recently by a Mevlevi teacher who lives in Istanbul named Mim Kemal Öke. The book contains partial translations of two ghazals that are so beautiful that I felt I had to read them in Persian and then translate them. The second one is below:

http://dar-al-masnavi.org/gh-0972.html

https://ganjoor.net/moulavi/shams/ghazalsh/sh972/

Ibrahim

[Ibrahim]

On November 24, 2017 Mohammadreza Lahfatan wrote:

You did not respond to my commentary on the ghazal 1221. You have not commentary the ghazals of 972 and 2674. You only translate verses and words.

Mowlana speaks of love in these ghazals. Mowlana words are basically nothing except love. Love is the essential element of mystical insights and movements. Love, like existence, has a concept that is outside the framework. 

Mowlana says : هر چه گویم عشق را شرح و بیان                 چون به عشق آیم خجل باشم از آن     

 

The last verse of the ghazal 972 : I think Mowlana talks about dying before he dies ( موتوا قبل أن تموتوا)

 

In verses 6 and 7, it does not mean the king and the moon of God. God is above this title. When referring to God's name, Mowlana always refers directly to God's name

Like: خدا. خداوند . الله . ربی .

God is not in description and not like something else

نتوان وصف تو گفتن که تو در فهم نگنجی      نتوان شبه تو گفتن که تو در وهم نیایی

One of the most beautiful ghazal in God Sanai has written

ملکا ذکر تو گویم که تو پاکی و خدایی     نروم جز به همان ره که توام راهنمایی

Please tell your opinion about this comment

Thanks

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I replied:

Nov26

Thank you for your comments on Ghazal 972. You wrote: "Mowlana speaks of love in these ghazals. Mowlana words are basically nothing except love." Yes, this is very true.

You wrote: "The last verse of the ghazal 972 : I think Mowlana talks about dying before he dies ( موتوا قبل أن تموتوا)"  

But I do not see this in the last verse, or in the ghazal. He said, "May death be far from them" (Muhammad, Abu Bakr, and 'Umar). He then referred to the meaning of "if they die". If he meant "(mystical) dying before death, he could have used the word "baqâ," but he did not.

I read the ghazal by Sanâ'î, which is excellent. Thank you for sharing it. https://ganjoor.net/sanaee/divans/ghgh/sh203/

However, I have difficulty accepting your opinion that when Mowlana is addressing God, he only speaks of God directly (Khodâ, Allâh, Rabbî). I spent many years translating Mowlana's Robâ'iyyât with the help of an Afghan scholar whose native language is Persian, and there are many poems in which Mowlana clearly addresses the beloved [ma`shûq] as the human beloved (the Sufi murshid, Shams), and there are many poems in which Mowlana clearly addresses the beloved [ma`shûq] as the divine Beloved [Allâh, Khodâ].

You wrote: "You have not commentary the ghazals of 972 and 2674. You only translate verses and words." This is not true. Please look below my translations and you will see my commentary (sometimes with mystical meanings). Didn't you notice the footnote numbers? If you click on a number you will see a comment or explanation. Please also look at my commentary on Ghazal 2142 (which I love very much--thank you for mentioning it.

You wrote: "I want to know the mystical senses that these ghazals have for others." Just look at the commentary following any of my 33 ghazal translations and you will find my mystical understandings: http://dar-al-masnavi.org/odes_trans.html

Ibrahim

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On November 26, 2017 Mohammadreza Lahfatan replied:

Salam Ostad

The first stage is the practical mysticism of awakening. Awakening means consciousness and awareness. Otherwise, what is the importance of awakening? You mean words in superficial and appearance. When someone goes away from death. What remains? Except for survival and immortality ( بقا و جاودانگی ) If we understand the verse we will reach the concept of survival. Mowlana speaks of another kind of death. Abu Bakr and Omar as an example lover. The overall concept of this ghazal is that lovers never die.

 It is very difficult to explain these issues to English. I have some things to say. That cannot be explained in English. If you did not understand the parts of my talk tell me to write farsi. If you agree, write some sentences in farsi.

 Your talk is right. Talk about God's Divine Beloved. But in the ghazal of 972, he refers to ( شاه جان و ماه) Shah Jahan and the moon, in my opinion, is Shams Tabrizi

از جانب خود هر دو جهان هیچ مجویید                جز جانب معشوق اگر صوفی صافید               

Yes, in this verse, the beloved is God

Says: I repented of speaking tell Shams Tabrizi for enthusiastic speakers full of meanings. My opinion is Mowlana intent to the secret  ( سر  )

The your words are like a pillar and a solid foundation for the mystics. To passion your enthusiasts, your breath is like a fire. Tell the secret and create a glow that will make the parliamentary heat and excitement. In this ghazal (2142), Mowlana is clearly referring to the word (him) Shams is Tabrizi. This ghazal is very very beautiful

I asking you separate my emails and put them in related topics.

Meaning and definition of interpretation differ from me and you. In my opinion, you have only interpreted the ghazal of 1221.