Need help in understanding couple of Maulana Rumi's poems

[Shawn]

Hi Guys,

Can someone please help with the summary or the central idea of the
following two peoms?

Regards,
Shawn

THE UNSEEN POWER

We are the flute, our music is all Thine;
We are the mountains echoing only Thee;
And movest to defeat or victory;
Lions emblazoned high on flags unfurled-
They wind invisible sweeps us through the world.

DESCENT

I made a far journey
Earth's fair cities to view,
but like to love's city
City none I knew

At the first I knew not
That city's worth,
And turned in my folly
A wanderer on earth.

From so sweet a country
I must needs pass,
And like to cattle
Grazed on every grass.

As Moses' people
I would liefer eat
Garlic, than manna
And celestial meat.

What voice in this world
to my ear has come
Save the voice of love
Was a tapped drum.

Yet for that drum-tap
From the world of All
Into this perishing
Land I did fall.

That world a lone spirit
Inhabiting.
Like a snake I crept
Without foot or wing.

The wine that was laughter
And grace to sip
Like a rose I tasted
Without throat or lip.

'Spirit, go a journey,'
Love's voice said:
'Lo, a home of travail
I have made.'

Much, much I cried:
'I will not go';
Yea, and rent my raiment
And made great woe.

Even as now I shrink
To be gone from here,
Even so thence
To part I did fear.

'Spirit, go thy way,'
Love called again,
'And I shall be ever nigh thee
As they neck's vein.'

Much did love enchant me
And made much guile;
Love's guile and enchantment
Capture me the while.

In ignorance and folly
When my wings I spread,
From palace unto prison
I was swiftly sped.

Now I would tell
How thither thou mayst come;
But ah, my pen is broke
And I am dumb.

[daralmas...@gmail.com]

Dear Shawn,

For interpretation, it helps to know what the original Persian texts
are, in order to check for accuracy of the given translation or
interpretive version, as well as to better understand the verses. The
first verses you asked about are from the first book of Masnavi (see
below), and need to be read in the context of the verses that precede
and follow the ones in which you are interested.

The second quote you posted is Mawlana Rumi's ghazal no. 1509 (this
was found by me, thanks to a DVD that sister Behnâz sent to me from
Iran, "Emissary of the Sun", which has the entire Persian text of
Rumi's Divan with excellent search capacity (such as to find in this
poem the words "neck's vein" = hablu 'l-warîd" from Qur'an 50:16,
where God says about Man: "We are nearer to him than (his) jugular
vein". The translator was A.J. Arberry, 'Persian Poems', an Anthology
of verse translations edited by A.J.Arberry, Everyman's Library, 1972.
Because it is rhymed, there is some loss of original meanings.

safar kard-am, ba-har shahré davîd-am
chô shahr-e `ishq man shahrê na-dîd-am
سفر کردم بهرشهری دویدم
چو شهر عشق من شهری ندیدم

Ibrahim

----------------------

The tears of our eyes are running because of our separation
from thee; sigh after sigh is going (up) from the midst of our souls.
A babe does not contend with its nurse, but it weeps, although it
knows neither evil nor good.
We are as the harp and thou art striking (it with) the plectrum
(playing on it): a lamentation is not from us, it is thou that art
making lamentation.
We are as the flute, and the music in us is from thee; we are as the
mountain, and the echo in us is from thee.
We are as pieces of chess (engaged) in victory and defeat:
our victory and defeat is from thee, O thou whose qualities are
comely!
Who are we, O thou soul of our souls, that we should remain in
being beside thee?
We and our existences are (really) non-existences: thou art the
absolute Being which manifests the perishable (causes phenomena to
appear).
We all are lions, but lions on a banner: because of the wind they
are rushing onward from moment to moment.
Their onward rush is visible, and the wind is unseen: may that which
is unseen not fail from us!
Our wind (that whereby we are moved) and our being are of thy
gift; our whole existence is from thy brining (us) into being.
--Masnavi, Book I: 596-605, translated by R. A. Niholson, 1926

-----------------------

[daralmas...@gmail.com]

Dear Shawn,

Thank you for asking about these special verses by Mawlana Rumi.
Haven't answered your question about the themes of the verses you
asked about. Rather, am hoping that other members (among the 60+) in
this discussion group will offer their interpretations. Meanwhile, am
trying to facilitate this by providing helpful material.

You should know that Rumi did not compose a poem entitled "The Unseen
Power". Rather, someone (Arberry?) selected verses 599 and 603 from
Book I of Masnavi and added the title.

As for the second group of verses you asked about, this is a complete
poem (but Arberry added a title to it, "Descent"). To read the Persian
correctly, it helps to know the poetic meter, which is hazaj maHdhûf:
(mu-FAA-`IY-LUN mu-FAA-`IY-LUN fa-`UU-LUN)
[oXXX oXXX oXX]

Below is another translation of Ghazal 1509 by Nevit Ergin, from
Golpinarli's Turkish translation. It also has some loss of meaning
because of going from Persian to Turkish to English, rather than
directly from Persian to English, and also because of the translator's
deficits in English (for example, in the last line, a "pencil;" broken
in the last line, rather than a pen).

Ibrahim

----------

I traveled from town to town, but I haven't seen a city like the
city of love.
At the beginning, I didn't appreciate the value of that city, and
because of my ignorance I suffered very much in exile.
I left the land of sugar cane and kept eating grasses in the
pasture like animals.
Why did I prefer leeks and onions to manna or quail like the
people of Moses?
Anything I hear in this world besides the sound of love, is
nothing but the noise of drums.
Because of that noisy drum, I dropped from the universe of
wholeness to the world of the temporary.
I was a pure soul, just a soul among souls. I was flying like a
heart without wings and feet.
I was tasting from that wine which gives grace and smiles to
people without lips and throats, just like a rose.
A voice came from love, "O soul," he said, "Get going. I created
a world of troubles. Go there."
I begged and kept saying, "I don't want to go there." I cried and
tore my shirt.
I was scared to go there. Also, I was afraid of not wanting to
come back from there.
"Go, O soul," he said. "Wherever you are, I'm closer to you than
your own carotid artery."
I was persuaded with all kinds of his charms and trickery.
He could move worlds with that charm. I was nothing, not even
seen by eyes.
I was kicked out of there and led down this road. I may have been
saved if I had stayed there.
I would tell you how to go there again, but when I came here to
tell, he broke my pencil.
--translated by Nevit Ergin, "Mevlânâ Celâleddîn Rumi: Dîvân-i Kebîr,
Volume 18", 2002, pp. 76-78
----"Even as now I shrink to be gone from here, even so thence to part
I did fear" is correct, not, "I was scared to go there. Also, I was
afraid of not wanting to come back from there."
---"I would tell you how to go there again, but when I came here to
tell, he broke my pencil' is not very good. "But ah, my pen is broke
and I am dumb" is not very good either, because of the forced rhyme.
More accurate: I would say how you may arrive (back) there, but (my)
pen is broken--when I reached here.

[Casey]

In response to Sheikh Gamard’s prompt for discussion group members to
address Shawn’s Question, I post my own, limited understanding of
these beautiful verses by Maulana:

“The tears of our eyes are running because of our separation

from thee; sigh after sigh is going (up) from the midst of our
souls."

I recall a saying which I believe was of Mansur Hallaj (unsure about
this), in which Hallaj states that God’s mercy is His nearness to us,
and God’s wrath is His distance from us. And, though God is always
near to us ("We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein"), we are
not always of the realization or acknowledgment of His closeness,
precedence, and will in our lives (and all life, for that matter).
And, when we are in real acknowledgment of this reality, we act
accordingly, both in outward habit and inward reality. And, may I
add, only those who long for greater closeness (a greater
acknowledgment and realization on their own parts, as well as a giving
over of their personal wills to the greater will of God) will be teary
eyed, lamenting their own known and sensed separation from God.
Disbelievers do not cry; not, perhaps, until they are judged (as we
all will be), at which time they may realize their error, but will be
lacking in means to redress their own past ignorance).

"A babe does not contend with its nurse, but it weeps, although it
knows neither evil nor good."

As has been indicated to us elsewhere, children are all born in a
state of submission, and are only swayed from submission by their
environment. And, as I mentioned above, only those who are in
submission lament their separation from their Lord do to having sensed
that they were once so near (as a child in the womb) and are now so
much farther… Had we never known such closeness to God, all humans
would not secretly yearn for this closeness, as closeness to God is
the most powerful and fulfilling of experiences, such as a child when
it is satisfied completely, in all ways, while in the womb. And, may
it be added, mothers, as well, experience the pain of separation after
birth, thus God wishes us always to be close to Him (like children in
the womb), as we all, albeit, often secretly, or unknowingly, wish
nearness to Him. Furthermore, “it knows neither evil nor good” is
indicative of the state of the child, submission, in which, to my
understanding, dualism disappears, and only nonexistence
(selflessness) in submission remains; this being indicative of the
state of Adam and Eve before being cast out from the Garden.

Moreover, for us to lament, we must have developed some degree of
closeness/submission in order to allow the will of God to penetrate
through us; thus, our lamentation is truly His, as our wills are
increasingly naughted by His. See below:

"We are as the harp and thou art striking (it with) the plectrum
(playing on it): a lamentation is not from us, it is thou that art
making lamentation."

When we are in submission to God, we give over ourselves to God, as a
child in the womb gives over its own personal volition and
independence to that of its mother’s. Thus, God cries through the
believer, the one who is in a state of submission. And, now, my
understanding of these verses expands yet again…

"We are as the flute, and the music in us is from thee; we are as the
mountain, and the echo in us is from thee.
We are as pieces of chess (engaged) in victory and defeat:
our victory and defeat is from thee, O thou whose qualities are
comely!
Who are we, O thou soul of our souls, that we should remain in
being beside thee?"

In a state of complete submission to God, we are naughted by him
(niistii), and, so far as I understand it (perhaps incorrectly), in
full submission, there is no one, no personal volition, no personified
attributes, only God. Thus, Mansur Hallaj’s infamous statement, “Ana-
l Haqq.” This, as I understand it, did not indicate that Hallaj was
God, but that he was no longer, and only God was (and is, and ever has
been). But, so far as my understanding of Rumi’s interpretation of
Hallaj’s statement, Rumi understands Hallaj’s statement as Hallaj was
proclaiming complete deference to God, absolving himself of all worth,
and making known that only God existed to him. So, either Hallaj
‘dissolved and was no longer,’ or entered into a complete state of
deference while still remaining Hallaj, or otherwise… Only God knows.

And, since we are navigating this point, I would like to kindly ask
Sheikh Gamard to elucidate for me, as well as all others present in
this discussion group, the distinction between the Hindu mystical
experience/interpretation of Dying into God and the Islamic
interpretation of Fanaa. I believe that this is perhaps the defining
feature which discriminates between Eastern and Abrahamic religions,
and may help us understand the reality of Hallaj, as well as the
direction to which Rumi taking us.

"We and our existences are (really) non-existences: thou art the
absolute Being which manifests the perishable (causes phenomena to
appear).
We all are lions, but lions on a banner: because of the wind they
are rushing onward from moment to moment.
Their onward rush is visible, and the wind is unseen: may that which
is unseen not fail from us!
Our wind (that whereby we are moved) and our being are of thy

gift; our whole existence is from thy brining (us) into being.”

The corporeal world appears to be moving of its own volition, but
there is an unseen mover, the prime reality upon which all is
contingent (God). If God wills, it is so; if God wills not, it is
not. For an intensely thorough analysis of this reality, consult
Hikmat al Ishraq, Suhrawardi’s most well known work.

Here, I’d like to add that if anything I have stated above has
misrepresented Rumi’s Islam, or your own sense and experience of
Islam, or of any diin, please understand that what I have stated is
solely my own limited understanding, interpretation, and experience…
Forgive me.

As’salaamu Aleykum.

Casey