Masnavi Khwani
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Simon Sorgenfrei
Apr 18, 2008, 4:04:12 AM4/18/08
to dar-al-...@googlegroups.com
Hello everyone
Does Ibrahim or anyone else know if there is any active Dar al-Masnavis (except this eminent one) in America och Europe, where the Masnavi is read and interpreted in the classical way?
What position does the Masnavi hold among Mevlevis today? How is it read and interpreted? Are there any literature or articles on this subject?
All the best,
Simon
daralmas...@gmail.com
Apr 19, 2008, 6:18:46 PM4/19/08
to Dar-al-Masnavi
Dear Simon,
Don't know of any active Daru 'l-Masnavis anywhere in the world that
are set up as physical teaching organizations. There was one in
Bosnia, that someone emailed me about, with a surviving non-Mevlevi
lineage of one elderly teacher who may still be alive. (A friend in
Istanbul promised to send me a photo of the building in the old
Charshambe district (in Fatih), showing the inscription in Ottoman
Turkish script: "Daru 'l-Mesnevi"--to add to my website.) In Istanbul,
Mevlevi Shaykh Emin Ishik Efendi teaches Masnavi classes on Friday
nights in the office of the International Mevlana Foundation near the
Shishli mosque, in Turkish, reading Masnavi verse by verse (first in
Persian, which he can pronounce but may not know), following the
published 20+ volume Masnavi commentary by Tahir ul-Mevlevi that was
completed by Shefik Jan (with Persian script, Turkish translation, and
commentary based on that of Anqaravi) plus his own comments (classes
attended by me about 4-5 times). Shefik Jan's assistant and student,
Nur Artiran teaches Masnavi twice a month in Istanbul (classes not
attended by me as yet). Neither Hafiz Emin Hoja Efendi nor Mrs.
Artiran speak English. She occasionally visits the Mevlevi group in
Switzerland and gives spiritual lectures (sohbets) on Masnavi.
Have just uploaded her speech (sent the link to it from the Swiss
Mevlevi website before in a reply to you) to this Group: "Mesnevi
Sohbets.doc"
Basically, the Mevlevi tradition of Masnavi teaching died out in
Turkey after the sufi orders were made illegal in 1925, the Turkish
language was Romanized and "purified" of a vast number of Persian and
Arabic words in Ottoman Turkish, and public Masnavi teaching was not
allowed until the late 1940's. As Mevlevis who could still read
Masnavi in Persian and Anqaravi's Commentary in the Arabo-Ottoman
Turkish script died, no one was left except a few, such as Abdulbaki
Golpinarli, Tahir ul-Mevlevi and his student Shefik Jan (Sefik Can)--
all three were Mevlevi shaykhs. Shafiiq Jaan, died 2005, was the last
Mevlevi trained in this Masnavi lineage able to read Persian and
Ottoman Turkish (and he was also my Mevlev murshid starting in 1999
when he visited the United States; then visited by me in Istanbul
during three trips there, 2003-04; he spoke no English).
Certainly, there are university-trained scholars in Turkey that can
read Persian and Ottoman Turkish who have specialized in Mawlana
Rumi's works. I know one who is a Mevlevi, but his training in reading
Masnavi was via the Turkish university system, although he must have
attended Shefik Jan's classes a fair number of times when he visited
Istanbul (he also speaks/reads no English).
Because modern Turkish has been changing so fast, Turks stopped
reading the translations of the Divan and the Masnavi by Golpinarli
(the latter published in 1956, a revison of the earlier translation
into Turkish by Veled Izbudak) because they could not understand many
of the Persian/Arabic-derived words anymore. To fill this gap, Shaykh
Shefik Jan Efendi resolved not to be a "stage shaykh" (= postneshin,
or leader of public Sema-Whirling ceremonies regulated by the
government), but to dedicate the rest of his life (until his death at
age 96) to publishing translations from Mawlana's works in
contemporary Turkish. In addition to completing Tahir ul-Mevlevi's
Masnavi commentary, Shefik Jan translated the entire Masnavi, many
ghazals, and all the quatrains attributed to Mawlana. More recently,
even his Turkish translation has been viewed by some to be difficult
to read, so two university scholars re-translated the entire Masnavi
(3 books apiece) into the most contemporary Turkish. One of them was
met by me at a Rumi conference in Kabul, Afghanistan, last year--
Derya Örs, of Ankara Unjiversity
http://akademik.semazen.net/author_cv.php?id=47
In addition, there are the non-Mevlevi lineages in Iran in which
Masnavi is still taught line by line with commentary by a living
teacher, such as Parviz Sahabi (see my article):
http://dar-al-masnavi.org/masnavi-guidance.html
As for your other questions: the Masnavi is still regarded by all
Mevlevis as Mawlana's most important poetic work of Islamic mystical-
spiritual wisdom. But it seems that few, except Mevlevi leaders/
teachers (who have to study it to some extent in order to teach it or
write about it), spend much time studying it. People in Mevlevi groups
in Turkey, Europe, and the US are certainly encouraged to read it, but
the modern culture of being overly "busy" interferes with study, and
in the US especially there is a growing avoidance of long-term
commitments (as if such "restrict personal freedom"). In the US, those
who view themselves as Mevlevi seem to prefer the unreliable
popularized interpretive versions made by C. Barks, which are
attractive and very easy to read. Very few, it seems, make much of an
effort to read the highly reliable translations by Nicholson (1926-34)
because they are, unfortunately, in such academic-sounding "Victorian"
English (and Nicholson intentionally translated for the sake of
graduate students in Persian Literature, not the general public).
As for literature or articles on this subject, you'd best write to a
university Rumi scholar, such as Prof. Franklin Lewis (if you don't
have his email address at U. of Chicago, ask me). He may have some new
information about this subject that is not in his book ("Rumi--Past
and Present, East and West", 2003, revised paperback edition--
superior to the 2000 hardback edition).
Ibrahim
-------------------
On Apr 18, 1:04 am, "Simon Sorgenfrei" <simon.sorgenf...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Don't know of any active Daru 'l-Masnavis anywhere in the world that
are set up as physical teaching organizations. There was one in
Bosnia, that someone emailed me about, with a surviving non-Mevlevi
lineage of one elderly teacher who may still be alive. (A friend in
Istanbul promised to send me a photo of the building in the old
Charshambe district (in Fatih), showing the inscription in Ottoman
Turkish script: "Daru 'l-Mesnevi"--to add to my website.) In Istanbul,
Mevlevi Shaykh Emin Ishik Efendi teaches Masnavi classes on Friday
nights in the office of the International Mevlana Foundation near the
Shishli mosque, in Turkish, reading Masnavi verse by verse (first in
Persian, which he can pronounce but may not know), following the
published 20+ volume Masnavi commentary by Tahir ul-Mevlevi that was
completed by Shefik Jan (with Persian script, Turkish translation, and
commentary based on that of Anqaravi) plus his own comments (classes
attended by me about 4-5 times). Shefik Jan's assistant and student,
Nur Artiran teaches Masnavi twice a month in Istanbul (classes not
attended by me as yet). Neither Hafiz Emin Hoja Efendi nor Mrs.
Artiran speak English. She occasionally visits the Mevlevi group in
Switzerland and gives spiritual lectures (sohbets) on Masnavi.
Have just uploaded her speech (sent the link to it from the Swiss
Mevlevi website before in a reply to you) to this Group: "Mesnevi
Sohbets.doc"
Basically, the Mevlevi tradition of Masnavi teaching died out in
Turkey after the sufi orders were made illegal in 1925, the Turkish
language was Romanized and "purified" of a vast number of Persian and
Arabic words in Ottoman Turkish, and public Masnavi teaching was not
allowed until the late 1940's. As Mevlevis who could still read
Masnavi in Persian and Anqaravi's Commentary in the Arabo-Ottoman
Turkish script died, no one was left except a few, such as Abdulbaki
Golpinarli, Tahir ul-Mevlevi and his student Shefik Jan (Sefik Can)--
all three were Mevlevi shaykhs. Shafiiq Jaan, died 2005, was the last
Mevlevi trained in this Masnavi lineage able to read Persian and
Ottoman Turkish (and he was also my Mevlev murshid starting in 1999
when he visited the United States; then visited by me in Istanbul
during three trips there, 2003-04; he spoke no English).
Certainly, there are university-trained scholars in Turkey that can
read Persian and Ottoman Turkish who have specialized in Mawlana
Rumi's works. I know one who is a Mevlevi, but his training in reading
Masnavi was via the Turkish university system, although he must have
attended Shefik Jan's classes a fair number of times when he visited
Istanbul (he also speaks/reads no English).
Because modern Turkish has been changing so fast, Turks stopped
reading the translations of the Divan and the Masnavi by Golpinarli
(the latter published in 1956, a revison of the earlier translation
into Turkish by Veled Izbudak) because they could not understand many
of the Persian/Arabic-derived words anymore. To fill this gap, Shaykh
Shefik Jan Efendi resolved not to be a "stage shaykh" (= postneshin,
or leader of public Sema-Whirling ceremonies regulated by the
government), but to dedicate the rest of his life (until his death at
age 96) to publishing translations from Mawlana's works in
contemporary Turkish. In addition to completing Tahir ul-Mevlevi's
Masnavi commentary, Shefik Jan translated the entire Masnavi, many
ghazals, and all the quatrains attributed to Mawlana. More recently,
even his Turkish translation has been viewed by some to be difficult
to read, so two university scholars re-translated the entire Masnavi
(3 books apiece) into the most contemporary Turkish. One of them was
met by me at a Rumi conference in Kabul, Afghanistan, last year--
Derya Örs, of Ankara Unjiversity
http://akademik.semazen.net/author_cv.php?id=47
In addition, there are the non-Mevlevi lineages in Iran in which
Masnavi is still taught line by line with commentary by a living
teacher, such as Parviz Sahabi (see my article):
http://dar-al-masnavi.org/masnavi-guidance.html
As for your other questions: the Masnavi is still regarded by all
Mevlevis as Mawlana's most important poetic work of Islamic mystical-
spiritual wisdom. But it seems that few, except Mevlevi leaders/
teachers (who have to study it to some extent in order to teach it or
write about it), spend much time studying it. People in Mevlevi groups
in Turkey, Europe, and the US are certainly encouraged to read it, but
the modern culture of being overly "busy" interferes with study, and
in the US especially there is a growing avoidance of long-term
commitments (as if such "restrict personal freedom"). In the US, those
who view themselves as Mevlevi seem to prefer the unreliable
popularized interpretive versions made by C. Barks, which are
attractive and very easy to read. Very few, it seems, make much of an
effort to read the highly reliable translations by Nicholson (1926-34)
because they are, unfortunately, in such academic-sounding "Victorian"
English (and Nicholson intentionally translated for the sake of
graduate students in Persian Literature, not the general public).
As for literature or articles on this subject, you'd best write to a
university Rumi scholar, such as Prof. Franklin Lewis (if you don't
have his email address at U. of Chicago, ask me). He may have some new
information about this subject that is not in his book ("Rumi--Past
and Present, East and West", 2003, revised paperback edition--
superior to the 2000 hardback edition).
Ibrahim
-------------------
On Apr 18, 1:04 am, "Simon Sorgenfrei" <simon.sorgenf...@gmail.com>
wrote:
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