Re: [The Buddhist Circle] AIM_USA - Re: All NewBuddhist (NavBuddha) must show Hindu as their religion - Buddhist are not included in SC category
kavita nirmalawaman
As SK pointed out, its true that it’s a very old issue pending till date. If you go through the speech given by Dr. Babasahab Ambedkar in respect to the facilities available to SCHEDULED CASTE where He pointed out that the facilities are available on the basis of caste and not the Religion. Hence though we r converting to Buddhism does not harm the facility available to SCs. But as per National Commission for Scheduled caste Buddhist religion was considered to be different than the Hindu, Sikh, Muslim and Christain etc. However as per Hindu Marriage Act Buddhist, Sikh are included in Hindu. Thus in order to remove this conflict in the year 1990 V.P. Singh’s Govt. with the help of Adv. Prakash Ambedkar for the first time Neo-Buddhist i.e. lower caste people converted to “Buddhism” was put under “Scheduled Caste” under the Central Govt. list by amending The Constitution (Scheduled Castes) order (Amendment)1950. However like Dalit Muslim or Dalit Christain though converted from Hinduism to Muslim or Christain treated as “Untouchables” hence South State Govt. UP.Govt. given them a status of “Scheduled Caste” but not the “Converted to Buddhism” and Maharashtra State also not granted this status to neo-Buddhist. But till that Central Govt. ordinance will prevail. But still one PIL at Mumbai High Court & one at Supreme Court was filed to increase the seats of reservation quota for LS on the basis of the said ordinance, 1990 which are still pending.
So its not new this for us. Even publishing such news at the time of election our enemy threaten us as they know that we are reactionary (as we are doing on this forum, such things are reactionary and showing our “Ignorance of Knowledge/unawareness”. Hence I always preferred and appeal people to read the things with open eyes and reading between the lines, from this, can we say we are educated? Wht kind of education is this?[vachal tar vachal- Dr. Babasahab]) Feel very sad but this is what the reality is. One more thing which I observe that our people showing drawbacks but very sad no body is even willing to talk on its solution or way to face such situation.
Our forefathers/previous generation done this considering their limitation and sources available but what abt us? Today we have sources but we are not utilizing it in a right direction. We are not reading Babasahab’s literature and hence not understanding his views or ways He shown. I think without understanding this we will not able to solve anything but will create many problems.
Going beyond this I would like to submit something which may not be agreeable by many on this forum, but still I dare to speak. Firstly you all might be agreed on this point that due to reservation specially in politics many agents(Dalal) from us for our enemies are generated. Hence Dr. Babasahab strongly protest Poona Pact i.e. political reservation and such resolution was passed in SCF(Scheduled Caste Federatiojn). Now question remains that then still why our people are sticking to scheduled caste identity? if the for this reservation or other facility our people are sticking to Scheduled caste identity then what is the solution for this? Or what is the solution for removing our scheduled caste identity and still have certain facility for us and also not to remove our Buddhist Identity? And by remaining Buddhist how Political & other power be achieved? According to me we can solve this problem by “Achieving Minority Status”. In this Direction BSS has already started its work like forming Institution as “Buddhist Education Society”, “Buddhist Media Centre” etc. This will help in creating and achieving the Minority Status. For this we also spreading this message in Masses by conduction cadres who in the future will stand with us and fight for the same. And at the same time BSS and Buddha Vihar Prabandhak Committee working in mass is trying to develop “Budhhist Culture”. Secondly in order to have political power we can approach other minority religious people. During my visit to Nanded I saw that there are Sikhs, Muslim and Buddhist. And Samata Sangh working in other caste people to convert them into Buddhism in order to save India from Casteism.
You might be thinking that it will not workable or very long process as such. But as I am actually studying other/various movement like Communist/Dalit/Maoist/Vidrohi/Non-Brahminal/Naxalite movements along with Ambedkarite Movement. I found that there is need of Strong Cultural Revolution to RSS in the sense of nationality and I found that only Ambedkarite Movement has that Potential to give Buddhist Cultural Revolution against RSS.
Our enemy is more intellectual to understand us and making fool us. So don’t be just Reactionary be a “Real” Intelectual and contribute your creativity/Potential in strengthening Ambedkarite Movement.
Dare to share your thoughts! Your thought may be against me but it may be in the interest of Ambedkarite Movement. Keeping mum is not the solution.
Note :- So don't think that i may hurt by your opinion. And if hurt don't bother to tell the truth after all we are here to strengthen this Movement.
I think you are right, we should not get excited about the news. But at the same time we need to find out the alternate ways to get rid of the Hindu caste to get reservation. Only Neo-Buddhist should be good enough to get the reservation. All others who are converting to Buddhism and not entitled for reservation does not need to be Neo-Buddhist, they can only be Buddhist.Best regards,Nitin
From: SK <kamb...@yahoo.co.in>
To: Buddhis...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 11:12:51 AM
Subject: [The Buddhist Circle] AIM_USA - Re: All NewBuddhist (NavBuddha) must show Hindu as their religion - Buddhist are not included in SC category
> http://www.censusin dia.gov.in/Before jumping the guns and getting overexcited on this matter - Please check the intent of the issue.
When Neo-Buddhism was included in the reservation List, The caste certificate must prove that the Convert was SC before converting to Neo-Buddhist.
The reservation to Neo-Buddhist was extended (from existing SC reservation Quota) to the converts who earlier belong to SC.
Else there would be no Reservation for Neo-Buddhist; e.g. If one converts from Catholic to Neo-Buddhist in India â€" the convert is not entitled for reservation.
So to avail reservation â€" One must indicate that he/she was ex SC; else do not OPT for reservation.
Neo-Buddhist can not be given blanket reservation â€" else all the General candidates will convert to Neo-Buddhist and claim the reservation!
Now it is one’s choice if they want the reservation per Indian constitution they have to prove if they fall under the RESERVED Category â€" so what is wrong in proving it on the caste certificate, If you do not like it to prove or avail reservation do not mention your(or forefathers) ex Hindu Caste.
By the way the reservation is Based on CASTE and Tribes as notified in the constitution.
SK
--- In BuddhistCircle@ yahoogroups. com, PrÃ…shÃ¥Ã`t <a1prashant@. ..> wrote:
>
> Friends,
> Please help in checking the authenticity of this news 'online'.
> Please visit following official sites on census. Please check if any of these mention about the matter.
> http://www.censusin dia.net/
> Cc: ApnaPune apnapune@yahoogroup s.com; BuddhistCircle BuddhistCircle@ yahoogroups. com
>
> Few of us discussed the matter and were thinking of getting to 'know' all about the matter before we actually meet.
>
> Dear Rahul, please tell us more on "file PIL in court"; could you please check it if you know more about the procedure.
>
> Thanks & Regards,
> PaciFire
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: PrÃ…shÃ¥Ã`t a1prashant@. ..
> To: AP Takshak takshak@...; Takshak Chahande takshaknag@. ..; kavita nirmalawaman adv.kavitanw@ ...; AP Praveen Wankhede Praveen_Wankhede@ ...; kavita nirmalawaman adv.kavitanw@ ...; AP Dr. Harsh Jagzap harsh@...; Sangharsh Apte sangharshbyss@ ...; AP Sangharsh Apte aptesangharsh@ ...; Nitin Suryatale More frequent nitin0105@.. .; AP Mangesh Dahiwale mangesh.dahiwale@ ...; Prashant Rahulkar prashantrahulkar@ ...
> Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 12:05:17 PM
> Subject: Fw: [The Buddhist Circle] Re: AIM_USA - Re: All NewBuddhist (NavBuddha) must show Hindu as their religion - Buddhist are not included in SC category
>
>
> Dear All,
> Jaibheem!
>
> Definitely for THIS issue is of PRIME importance. This is straight attack on our Buddhist Identity.
> And a abuse to 1st vow given by Dr.Babasaheb.
> The time is to come together and set out A VERY STRONG ACTION PLAN!
> Let's set ourselves to take ANY "ACTION" that is needed to completely abolish this and let's show THEM that there cannot be any such possiblity of THIS Happening!
>
> Let PUNE take the lead; all organizations / groups SHOULD come together and fight against this.
>
> Mostly tomorrow (Gandhi Jayanti) hopefully most of us have time
> Mangesh: Can we meet at Manuski for this?
>
> RPI, BSP, PRCP and others: Ruining this issue HAS TO BE YOUR FIRST AGENDA!
>
> Regards,
> PaciFIRE
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: rhiwale rhiwale@yahoo. com>
> To: BuddhistCircle@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 4:26:17 AM
> Subject: Fw: [The Buddhist Circle] Re: AIM_USA - Re: All NewBuddhist (NavBuddha) must show Hindu as their religion - Buddhist are not included in SC category
>
>
> Jaibhim,
> Please file a PIL in Court and get things clarfied. It is issue and understaniding of wht is written than debate. If supreame court agree that just use of navboudhha is enough to prove that person was SC before becoming Buddhist then we dont need anything in addition.
>
> As per my Understanding V.P. Singh had granted all facilities of SC to Hindu SC who convert as Buddhist.
> Only ambedkarite buddhist convert use Navbuoddha nad no one else so should be enough to proof that they were Untouchable before.
> Rahul
>
> --- In BuddhistCircle@ yahoogroups. com, Nitin Suryatale <nitin_suryatale@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Nitin
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Forwarded Message ----
> > From: Shahushakti Bhalerao <shahushakti@ ...>
> > To: aim_usa@googlegroup s.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:42:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: [The Buddhist Circle] Re: AIM_USA - Re: All NewBuddhist (NavBuddha) must show Hindu as their religion - Buddhist are not included in SC category
> >
> > But you know,again nav buddha is not a caste, so they will come again and say, you cannot put nav-buddha in the column of caste and you will have to put your caste in that caste column on the caste certificate i.e mahar,mang,chamar. ..etc.And if we are ok with that too, then we will be back to square one with a total hindu identity....
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Shahu
> >
> >
> > 2009/9/30 Nitin Suryatale <nitin_suryatale@ ...>
> >
> > You are right about the Brahminical Newspaper and the move of census commission, but I think the issues is more than reservation. It more of protecting our identity as Buddhist. But looks like we are more happy to use multiple identities in different circumstances, so it should be OK to use Nav-Buddha and Hindu religion as an identity to gain the fruits of reservation.
> > >We consulted some lawyers about it in Akola, and we got the same response that some one big like politicians or big institutions should raise voice against it. This is no work of a commoner and Politicians will not help to resolve such issues unless the vote bank will raise voice against it. Ultimately the issue will keep rotating in circle and eventually we will get used to the new identity.
> > >
> > >Best regards,
> > >Nitin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Nitin Divekar <nitin.baudh@ ...>
> > >To: BuddhistCircle@ yahoogroups. com
> > >Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:06:04 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [The Buddhist Circle] Re: AIM_USA - Re: All NewBuddhist (NavBuddha) must show Hindu as their religion - Buddhist are not included in SC category
> > >
> > >
> > >Jaybhim All!
> > >
> > >First of all its surprising that Brahminical newspaper Lokmat published this news. Lokmat is the same newspaper which tried to show that khairlanji massacre was result of illicit relationship.
> > >As far as the news os census in Maharashtra is concerned I think (Nav-Baudh) many Buddhist in Maharashtra have their caste as Buddhist and Hindu as religion on their school leaving certificate. The latest move of census commission is nothing but a manuvadi fabrication to cut down the political, social, educational reservation of SC/ST,s. Do we have any action plan to protect our political, social, educational reservation?
> > >
> > >On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Nitin Suryatale <nitin_suryatale@ yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>So, as Mr. Lakshman said earlier, we are officially Half Buddhist and Half Hindu and we are so helpless that we can't do anything about it?
> > >>
> > >>Best regards,
> > >>Nitin
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Shahushakti Bhalerao <shahushakti@ gmail.com>
> > >>To: aim_usa@googlegroup s.com
> > >>Cc: BuddhistCircle@ yahoogroups. com; AIM_UAE@yahoogroups .com; sakyagroup@yahoogro ups.com; Apna Pune ApnaPune@yahoogrou p s.com>; apana_hr@yahoogroup s.com; dhamma_voice@ yahoogroups. com; Dalit@yahoogroups. com
> > >>
> > >>Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:51:01 AM
> > >>Subject: AIM_USA - Re: All NewBuddhist (NavBuddha) must show Hindu as their religion - Buddhist are not included in SC category
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Yes this news is true It is confirmed... ..
> > >>And there are elections going on in maharashtra maybe because of the code of conduct nobody is speaking/taking action on it....
> > >>
> > >>Thanks,
> > >>
> > >>Shahu
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>2009/9/27 Nitin Suryatale <nitin_suryatale@ yahoo.com>
> > >>
> > >>Can someone check and confirm the following news? I did not find this news in any English Media.
> > >>>
> > >>>http://onlinenews. lokmat.com/ php/detailednews .php?id=MainEdit ion-1-1-28- 09-2009-8556c& ndate=2009- 09- 28&editionname= main
> > >>>
> > >>>Best regards,
> > >>>Nitin
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>--~--~---- -- ---~--~-- --~------ ------~-- -----~--~ ----~
> > >> “We want our own people, people who will fight tooth and nail for our interest and secure privilege for the under-privileged; people who will undo the wrongs done to our people ;people who will voice our grievances fearlessly; people who can think, lead and act; people with principles and character. Such people should be sent to the legislatures. We must send such people to Legislatures who will be slaves to none but remain free to their conscience and get our grievances redressed.�
> > >>-- B. R. Ambedkar
> > >>-~-------- -- ~----~--- -~----~-- ----~---- ~------~- -~---
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --~--~------ ---~--~-- --~------ ------~-- -----~--~ ----~
> > “We want our own people, people who will fight tooth and nail for our interest and secure privilege for the under-privileged; people who will undo the wrongs done to our people ;people who will voice our grievances fearlessly; people who can think, lead and act; people with principles and character. Such people should be sent to the legislatures. We must send such people to Legislatures who will be slaves to none but remain free to their conscience and get our grievances redressed.�
> > -- B. R. Ambedkar
> > -~---------- ~----~--- -~----~-- ----~---- ~------~- -~---
> >
>
__._,_.___I also take refuge in the words of the Buddha to be your own guide. Take refuge in your own reason. Do not listen to the advice of others. Do not succumb to others. Be truthful and take refuge in the truth. Never surrender to anything. If you keep in mind this message of Lord Buddha at this juncture, I am sure, your decision will not be wrong. (Babasaheb in 1936 at Dadar Mumbai)![Yahoo! Groups]()
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Regards
Adv.Kavita Nirmala Waman