Fwd: The CyberSystemic interactions (CSI 2) How to understand the presentation?

[Shann Turnbull]

Dear All

The attachment to explain a CSI discussion refers to “Holonic entities” without a definition of a holon.  Without a definition we cannot engage with the presentation. Might anyone explain how VSM can become associated with “Holonic entities”?

The literature on Holons has various ways of defining a holon and their networks described as holarchies. Refer to Mathews (1996) ‘Holonic organisational architectures', Human Systems Management, 15(1): 27-54, https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/publications/holonic-organisational-architectures. But a common defining feature of a holon is its paradoxical contrary ~ complementary characteristics described as Tensegrity. Cybernetics describes why Tensegrity is an invariant in all biota and the universe as explained in my latest article: ‘How cybernetics explains tensegrity and its advantages for society’, Journal of Behavioural Economics and Social Systems (BESS), 4(2): 71-92,  https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3913811

VSM is a model not found in nature. 

So might anyone explain how this model can be relevant to explaining any process in nature or society? 

Or is it only relevant to “cognition” that is “artificial”  that would make the topic academic?

Cheers

Shann

Begin forwarded message:

From: Igor Perko <igor....@um.si>

Subject: The CyberSystemic interactions (CSI 2)

Date: 14 March 2023 at 11:24:23 am AEDT

To: "stur...@alumni.harvard.edu" <stur...@alumni.harvard.edu>

Dear Shann,

You are kindly invited to the second CyberSystemic Interaction (CSI), where

Massimiliano Pirani, Andy Williams, and Žan Domanjko

will introduce the discussion on 

“The holonic VSM as a path towards the connection of human and artificial cognition”

So, the question is if the VSM propertied: its fixed structure, the vertical recursion capacity, combined with horizontal autopoiesis can provide a holonic grid, which can combine AI, Humans and organisations?

We meet in a week’s time on Wednesday, 22. March 2023 14:00 CET in Zoom

[Shann Turnbull]

Dear Igor

Thank you for your  follow up.

My apology for not attending your last session

It was held at midnight my time and without clarification of the points I raised I lacked motivation to lose sleep to attend.

You explanation of using a VSM "as structure for designing adaptable distributed intelligent agents" does not sound any more promising line of research

 "adaptable distributed intelligent agents” describes all living systems.

All biota become self-regulating, self-governing and adaptive by possessing tensegrity. VSM is not required. As I stated earlier it is not found in nature. It

Unless the role of tensegrity is understood and accepted, it would seem that your next discussion is unlikely to make progress.

So excuse me if I doze off again.

Cheers

Shann

Shann Turnbull PhD; Principal: International Institute for Self-governance stur...@alumni.harvard.edu
PO Box 266, Woollahra, Sydney Australia, 1350, Cell: +61 (0) 418 222 378 Bibliography at: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h9muSf_cKnjRfDRGAy_4lbujIgEthPM4/view 

On 24 Mar 2023, at 11:19 am, Igor Perko <igor....@um.si> wrote:

Dear Shann,

 

Thank you for the inquiry before interaction. I was hoping to reply in time, regretfully unsuccessfully.

I am sorry you did not take part in the interaction, but for the record, it was a messy one. Since we were trying to establish if a VSM can be used as a structure for desigingin adaptable distributed intelligent agents, which can help increases general collective intelligence.

 

Are you joining the next time?

 

Igor

<image001.png>

If you have not done that by now, please register at: https://woscorg.wixsite.com/wosc/blank-3

in the attachment you may find some words of prelude.

 

Looking forward in seeing you,

The WOSC CSI team