Lecture 8, Question 1: Compare Sonatas Op. 2, No. 1 and Op. 101

[Jill_Curtis Institute]

21 years separate the Sonata Op. 2, No. 1 and Op. 101. Listening to them back to back, what qualities most obviously differentiate them from one another? In what (if any) ways are they alike?

[greer...@me.com]

Difference:
-Op.2 was 4 movements, Op.101 was 3 movements
-Op.2 4th movement was furious. Op 10.1 Final movement = A slow movement, interlude, and a
proper finale all played without a pause
-Op.2 used Mannheim Rocket and variations of this technique

Similarities:
-Both Op. 2 and Op. 101 were forward and backward looking.
-Both relied on ambiguity in various section to produce rhythmic instability
-Both employed a doubt-affirmation theme
-Both employ a delay of affirmation
-Both employ extended pedaling
-Both use silence to shape phrases with non-resolution following the silence

[hartma...@gmail.com]

:) op 2/1 I could play when I was 14, op 101 I can still not play properly :)

[evelyn...@gmail.com]

Op. 101 differs from op. 2 #1 in many ways:
1. follows the classical format of a sonata with a sonata allegro as the first movement, though he did add a Minute as the third movement, making the sonata a four movement.
2. the texture is thinner in op. 2.
3. the range of notes has widened
4. the accompaniment becomes more sophisticated in 101, not just broken chords, or blocked chords
5. He used smaller note values giving the illusion that the movement is fast
7. definite tonality with V/I clearly established
8. Variety of emotion through use of choral harmony and singable melody as opposed to the Mannheim rocket
9. The building up to a climax through more voices, wider and wider separation between the two hands, through build up of dynamics etc.
10. more counterpoint and complex harmonic chords
I am sure there are more that I miss!!!!!!

[kmus...@gullotta.it]

La Sonata op.101 è un’opera totalmente basata sulla sperimentazione e sull’utilizzo del contrappunto il quale, pur affiorante in opere precedenti, diventa un pendant di riferimento formale delle ultime composizioni beethoveniane. È uno squarcio inferto alla Sonata: dopo quest’opera non potrà più essere la stessa. Nessun musicista dopo Beethoven potrà ignorare cosa può diventare, essere, questo riferimento compositivo.
La Sonata op.2 n.1, rimane invece, pur sempre una “Sonata”, nel senso di un riferimento a strutture definite (forma-sonata, minuetto). Entrambe le Sonate sono accomunate dalla ricchezza e varietà del materiale melodico, tematico, ritmico: Beethoven sembra voler mettere dentro ognuna delle due Sonate tutto quello che ha da dire, quasi come se ognuna fosse la sua ultima occasione di scrivere una Sonata.

[pj.a...@infourban.com]

Really good way of diffentiating them Hans. I can't get past the two "easy" ones of opus 49. Beethoven had a breather there. Have more or less nailed Sonata 14 first movement to an acceptable standard but can't see myself playing anything more so will just resign myself to listening to Mr. Biss and enjoying his beautiful playing.

[yaj...@gmail.com]

Intensity of emotions in the later work.

[Shannon Thomas]

Both Op. 2, No. 1 and Op. 101 have movements that are slow and thoughtful and those that are fast and joyous. However, one of the big differences between them is the order that such movements come in. In Op. 2, No. 1, Beethoven starts off in that joyous place and sort of uses that to lure the audience into the thoughtfulness that follows, but with Op. 101 he seemed confident enough to lead with thoughtfulness and hold off on the joy to make it feel even more powerful. 

[Phil Cartwright]

Beethoven' early sonatas were heavily influenced by the Classical era and form. His works were influenced by Mozart and Haydn. Nevertheless, he showed innovation and his willingness to break ranks with the past as evidence by Opus 2, No 1. which has elements of a freer form and has four movements indicating the weight Beethoven placed on the sonata. In his later sonatas, such as Op. 101, the break with the past is evident. The break is evidenced in such elements as rhythm and tempo, but also in terms of the enormity of the works. Once again, like the early works, Beethoven demonstrated his propensity toward innovation. From the lectures we learned that by the time of his later works his message of the virtuosity and joy associated with struggle became solidified.

;

[evelyn...@gmail.com]

I wonder if we should look at his "development and creativity" in another way. A child that is given a small kit of lego that consists of only a small number of pieces, can only create a limited number of buildings. However, as the child grows and as lego created more blocks and different kinds of additional pieces, such as people, roofs etc., the child will be able to create a whole lot more buildings. Similarly, as the piano becomes larger, Beethoven had in his hands a lot more tools in terms of the number of notes, the different combination of sounds, which allows him to be more innovative, and enable him to create different moods by choice of accompaniment patterns, keys, density of texture etc.etc. He is like a child that is growing in all directions because of the broad opportunities given him due to the many more pieces and the many more different kins of pieces that he had.

[Pavel Vishnevsky]

It seems to me, an analogy might be pertinent.  

We could say, the difference between Sonata No. 1 and Sonata No. 28 is like the difference between, say, Beethoven's Sym. No 1 and Symphony No. 7.

There is a maturity and expansiveness to the Sonata 28, that No. 1 lacks. This seems to be case, even though No. 1 appears to show many signs of the style that would be developed throughout the course of Beethoven's evolution.  

[robertg...@gmail.com]

Of course, its lyricism. Op. 101 is tremendously full of subtlety, for example in the harmonic progression where more chromatic and step wise motion are used. It has the singing quality more than ever, especially compared to Op. 2 No.1. 

[K P]

Differences of op.2 no.1 and op.101:

-The op.2 no.1 sonata (along with other early sonatas) were greatly influenced by composers such as Haydn/Mozart, and Beethoven followed more of the 'rules' in sonatas

-The op.101 sonata (with other late sonatas) had more 'revolutionary' ideas, in which Beethoven broke more 'rules', and inspired many other Romantic composers (e.g. Schumann, Mendelssohn, Chopin, etc.)

-Op.2 no.1 has a more aggressive/furious ending, whereas op.101 has a more slower last movement, with a joyful 'finale'

The V-I cadence is clearly found in op.2, as op.101 avoids the perfect cadence until the very end

-op.101 contains more variety in emotions by using thirds (in 1st mvt), octaves, etc. whilst the 1st mvt of op.2 uses blocked chords, staccato, and the Mannheim rocket

-Op.2 has more certainty/knowing of where to go, as opposed to op.101, which begins with uncertainty, or the longing for an answer 

(I know I have missed a lot of points...) 

2015年6月1日月曜日 9:32:45 UTC+10 Jill_Curtis Institute:

[Holly Anderson]

Whilst both Op. 2 and Op. 101 looked to the past and the future, using harmonic and rhythmic ambiguity to create a sense of instability, there are clear differences structurally - Op. 2 is 4 movements and Op. 101 is 3. Op. 2 also used a Mannheim Rocket which makes sense as it is closer, time-wise, to composers like Stamitz and the period of time where the Mannheim orchestra had a very strong influence. Both use silence and extended pedalling to create drama within the pieces.

[Luis Angel Medina Guzmán]

Las sonatas tempranas son filigranas del sonido fruto de la juventud temprana de Beethoven influenciada especialmente por Haydn. Cada sonata temprana es única, es una catedral al igual que las grandes como la Op. 101 u Op 106. Incluso las sonatas tempranas presentan desafíos interpretativos y técnicos propios.